Podcast Summary

Social Media Marketing Podcast

Episode: The Death of Organic Reach: What Works Right Now
Date: December 25, 2025
Host: Michael Stelzner (Social Media Examiner)
Guests: Mari Smith ("Queen of Facebook") & Sean Cannell (YouTube expert, CEO Think Media)

Episode Overview

This episode addresses the widespread decline of organic reach across major social platforms. Host Michael Stelzner invites Mari Smith and Sean Cannell to unpack how interest-driven algorithms, increased content saturation, and the rise of AI are changing marketing, and to discuss actionable strategies for staying visible, building community, and adapting for 2026. Whether you’re feeling frustrated by shrinking numbers or looking to innovate, this episode provides data-driven insights, practical tactics, and an optimistic vision for those willing to reinvent and double down.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Reality of Organic Reach Decline

• Organic impressions and reach are at historic lows on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube—platforms are shifting to interest-driven feeds, showing users what AI thinks they want rather than who they follow.
• Mari: "There is more content in these feeds than ever before... social media has really changed, right? It’s interest. It’s the AI powered algorithms that are deciding on your behalf what you’re interested in and shoving all that in your feed." (02:36)

The Shift to "Interest Media"

• Both Meta and YouTube are now recommendation machines rather than simple social feeds—roughly half of what users see is from accounts they don’t follow, based purely on behavior-driven AI.
• TikTok pioneered the “For You” approach, which Meta (Facebook/Instagram) has copied.
• "Be careful what you interact with, because you’re going to see more of that. That’s what’s meant by interest media." – Mari Smith (04:34)

2. Case Studies & Platform Trends (YouTube Focus) [05:02 – 07:40]

Examples of View Decline

• Gary Vaynerchuk: Even with a full team and massive brand, average vlog video hits 8K views ("Even if you’re at the top of your game, millions-of-views virality is kind of a thing of the past." – Sean, 05:14)
• Linus Tech Tips: Views dropped 70%, from 1.5–2M per video to as low as 300K. Still great, but the dip is significant.
• General Trend: Most creators, even in hot niches like cars and personal finance, report views are down.

Underlying Causes

• Massive content flood (20 million videos uploaded to YouTube daily [08:08]), much of it low-effort or AI-generated.
• Viewer attention is split across formats (shorts, long form, live), platforms, and new creators.
• "Competition is highest for low effort content... But if you can get into the top 10%, it’s still wide open.” – Sean Cannell (08:24)

3. Cross-Platform & Content Repurposing

Is Repurposing Hurting or Helping?

• Repurposing (e.g., YouTube to Reels, TikTok to Instagram) is common and essential, but the key is context: native, platform-specific tweaks get far bigger results.
• "There's no such thing as over posting... now you can test organic content at scale, and the algorithms will only show posts to the right people." – Mari (10:23)
• "When I sit down and make platform native content and speak directly to my phone… my results aren’t like 10 times better. They’re like a hundred times better." – Sean (21:44)

Advanced Tactics: Split Testing

• "Diary of a CEO" podcast split-tests up to 100 thumbnails with micro ad budgets to find the one with the highest click rate (11:25).
• YouTube now allows A/B testing of thumbnails and titles natively.

4. Practical Case Studies

Facebook/Meta: Mixing Formats for Success

• Lispet, Nordic Dog Trainer:
  • Shifted from live video to strong hooks and mixed content (vertical short form, polls, carousels, stories, group engagement).
  • “She’s always experimenting and uses what I call ‘all the things’... and stories are a brilliant way to test.” – Mari (13:44)

YouTube: Every Second Counts in the Viewer Journey

• Dr. Jake Berman (Think Media Client):
  • Saw exponential performance with videos focused on tight packaging, sharp scripting, and editing—"One audience, one problem, one clear promise." (16:51)
  • 20,000 views on a channel with 8,000 subscribers, outperforming the base audience by “crafting, not accident”.

Key takeaway:

• “Those that are winning on YouTube right now understand this one thing: Every second counts in the viewer journey.” – Sean (16:51)
• Retention and watch time drive reach across all platforms. Hooking is not enough; every second must be engaging.

5. Adapting to Shorter Attention Spans [19:33–21:40]

• Meta and YouTube both prioritize watch time and retention—even a few seconds makes a significant difference in algorithmic favor.
• Mari: "Retention matters. If your retention graph plummets in the first five seconds, you’ve got to work on your retention."
• Video Duration Guidelines:
  • Instagram: stick under 2 minutes unless it’s a live
  • Facebook: can test up to 10 minutes, especially landscape (unique full-screen on mobile)
  • YouTube: both short form (shorts, vertical) and long form can win, but the packaging and retention is key

6. Reinvent, Don’t Burn Out: Mindset & Metrics for 2026 [24:00–29:00]

• "If you’re okay with lower numbers, readjust. But most need to reinvent to rise."
• Platform shifts mean you might get 1/10 the views of a few years ago, but focus on what you do with that attention.
• “You are one video away from extraordinary results… [but] it’s not every post entitled to reach all your followers.” – Sean (24:40)

Checking Old Playbooks

• If you’re only posting sporadically, using link posts (lowest reach), and not working natively, expect burn out or frustration (26:58).

Data is Your Friend

• “What gets measured gets improved… the retention curve is the thing.” – Sean (29:07)
• “If I can get a viewer to stick for 7–9 seconds instead of just 3, I get 10x the reach.” – Sean

7. Actionable Tactics for 2026

Facebook/Instagram (Meta's “Ecosystem” Focus)

• 4-Step Organic Funnel [31:51]:
  1. Content: Create compelling, vertical/shortform content that hooks and delivers fast value.
  2. Eyeballs: Use all formats (stories, groups, reels/images/polls).
  3. DMs: Guide people into Messenger, IG DMs, WhatsApp for higher intent conversation.
  4. Conversion: Use bots (like ManyChat) for automatic qualifying, but inject true personal engagement for deeper trust.
  • "Meta wants us to focus on getting people into the DMs—that’s where relationships and conversions happen." – Mari (31:51)
• List-building and conversion now happen just as often in-app (DMs, group prompts) as off-app (email funnel).
• Use comment trigger words (e.g., “Comment ‘gift’ for info”) to send users straight into DMs with automation.

YouTube

• Maximize value per minute (or per second for Shorts).
• Experiment with new features: Collab videos (shared reach), Community tab (polls, value posts/tips for both followers and non-followers), carousel posts.
• Don’t obsess over virality—focus on qualified viewers and what happens after the view (“Even if views are down, income can be up”). – Sean (35:14)
• Consider in-app lead capture and list-building, not just off-platform conversion.

8. The Vanity of "Views" & the Importance of Conversation [39:39–41:21]

• Views, even with new metrics, are vanity—what matters is direct engagement, DMs, group comments, and conversion.
• "Views don't pay the bills." – Mari (39:39)
• Hyper-personalization—comment speeds, using names, responding quickly—can mean the difference between casual viewers and true fans/customers.
• Algorithmic translation features now mean reels can go viral globally—but be aware of whether your business can serve those audiences.

9. Futurist Takes: Where Organic Is Heading [41:21–44:52]

Sean Cannell:

• The biggest shifts are here: “Personal brand is the only differentiator left in the age of AI…packaging mastery or you’ll be ignored.”
• “Business is a game of attrition.” Those who double down on learning, collaboration, and detail orientation will outlast and win.

Mari Smith:

• As AI and synthetic content flood platforms—"90% of content will be AI by 2027"—your moat is authentic community.
• "Lean into DMs, live streams, groups, and being a real human. Community will be the only competitive edge."

Notable Quotes

• “If you can get into the top 10% of content, that's still accessible to every listener...”
  – Sean Cannell, [08:24]

• “Interest media: Be careful what you interact with, because you’re going to see more of that.”
  – Mari Smith, [04:34]

• “There's no such thing as over posting… the algorithms will only show posts to the right people.”
  – Mari Smith, [10:23]

• “Those that are winning on YouTube right now understand this one thing: Every second counts in the viewer journey.”
  – Sean Cannell, [16:51]

• “Views don’t pay the bills.”
  – Mari Smith, [39:39]

• “Personal brand is the only differentiator left in the age of AI.”
  – Sean Cannell, [41:43]

• “Your only moat is community.”
  – Mari Smith (referencing Tom Bilyeu), [43:46]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Topic | |----------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:36 | Why organic reach is tanking (Mari on interest media) | | 04:34 | Beware the AI interest feed: What you interact with matters | | 05:02 | YouTube view decline: Gary Vee, Linus Tech Tips | | 08:08 | YouTube: 20M daily uploads—competition is for low effort | | 10:23 | Is repurposing hurting? Why native still wins | | 11:25 | Advanced tip: Podcast splits test 100 thumbnails | | 13:44 | Case: Dog trainer cracks Facebook with mixed formats, groups | | 16:51 | YouTube: “Every second counts” case study (Dr. Jake Berman) | | 19:46 | Retention graphs, duration, platform video best practices | | 21:44 | “Native content is 100x better” (Sean) | | 24:40 | Need to reinvent to avoid burnout, change playbook | | 29:07 | Data is key: Retention, CTR, and getting 1% better | | 31:51 | 4-step Meta organic funnel: Content > Eyeballs > DMs > Conv. | | 39:39 | “Views are vanity.” What really matters for business | | 41:43 | Futurist: Shifts in organic marketing, personal brand as moat | | 43:46 | Community is your competitive edge in the age of AI |

Actionable Takeaways

• Shift Your Mindset: The algorithm now decides, so build content for non-followers as much as fans.
• Embrace All Formats: Mix shortform, stories, groups, reels, carousels—test everything and lean into what's working.
• Double Down on Retention: Master hooks, edit out filler, understand average watch time. Use retention curves as your guide.
• Native > Repurpose: Native content that speaks directly to each platform is exponentially more effective, but strategic repurposing still works for scale.
• Lean Into Community: Guide viewers into DMs or groups, move conversations deeper. Use personal touches.
• Test Everything: Thumbnails, titles, captions, triggers—run micro-experiments and iterate rapidly.
• Don’t Chase Views Alone: Prioritize conversions, list-building, and long-term relationships over vanity metrics.
• Prepare for AI Content Floods: Your authenticity and human touch will be your “moat” as AI-generated content escalates.

Closing Thoughts

The death of organic reach is less an obituary than a call to evolution: relentless testing, embracing new tactics, and focusing on relationships will outlast any algorithm change. Don’t burn out—double down on what works, reinvent when necessary, and remember: in a sea of machine-generated noise, real communities and real conversations will carry you furthest.

For more notes or resources:
Socialmediaexaminer.com/podcast/698