Using Neuro-Linguistic Programming for More Influence and Sales

Summary

Social Media Marketing Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: Using Neuro-Linguistic Programming for More Influence and Sales
Host: Michael Stelzner
Guest: Nikki Rauch
Release Date: February 20, 2025

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1. Introduction and Guest Background

In this enlightening episode of the Social Media Marketing Podcast, host Michael Stelzner welcomes Nikki Rauch, a renowned author and founder of Sales Maven. Nikki shares her journey from a successful sales manager in the technology sector to an influential sales coach for women entrepreneurs. With multiple publications, including "Buying Signals" and "The Selling Staircase," Nikki has established herself as a thought leader in leveraging sales techniques to empower women in business.

Notable Quote:

"When you think about NLP, it's like another tool in your toolkit—something you can flexibly use to enhance your communication and influence."
– Nikki Rauch [04:24]

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2. Understanding Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP)

NLP, as defined by Nikki, stands for Neuro-Linguistic Programming and encompasses three core components:

• Neuro: How we process information in our brains.
• Linguistic: The use of language in communication.
• Programming: Habits and patterns that shape our behaviors.

Nikki explains that NLP is not about mind control but about enhancing communication and influence by understanding and leveraging these components.

Notable Quote:

"Language has influence, and when we understand the meaning behind the words we choose, we can drive people to take action."
– Nikki Rauch [06:02]

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3. NLP Applications in Marketing

Nikki emphasizes that NLP is highly relevant to marketers because it centers on influence—a fundamental goal in marketing. By applying NLP techniques, marketers can craft messages that resonate deeply with their target audience, encouraging them to engage with content and take desired actions.

Michael encapsulates this by highlighting that in a crowded content landscape, understanding NLP can differentiate a marketer's message, making it more compelling and effective.

Notable Quote:

"When you make it easy for people to take action and feel like you're speaking to the heart of their issues, they're more likely to engage with your content and follow you."
– Nikki Rauch [07:37]

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4. Motivational Traits and Their Impact

Nikki delves into various motivational traits that drive human behavior, essential for tailoring marketing strategies. She outlines four primary traits:

a. Toward vs. Away From Language

• Toward: Focuses on desires and goals (e.g., "achieve success").
• Away From: Centers on avoiding fears and problems (e.g., "prevent failure").

Example: Michael discusses how addressing both motivations can broaden the appeal of a marketing message.

Notable Quote:

"If all your language is about avoiding something, you're missing out on connecting with those who are motivated by achieving something great."
– Nikki Rauch [08:41]

b. Options vs. Procedures

• Options: Prefer flexibility and multiple ways to achieve goals.
• Procedures: Value structure and clear, step-by-step processes.

Example: Nikki shares her experience with the Sales Maven Society, adapting content to cater to both preferences.

Notable Quote:

"Options people want flexibility, procedures people want structure. Balancing both can expand your buyer base."
– Nikki Rauch [28:24]

c. New and Different vs. Same Same

• New and Different: Always seek the latest trends and innovations.
• Same Same: Prefer stability and familiar routines.

Example: Michael connects this to his own experience with AI, addressing both the desire to embrace new technologies and the need for structured learning.

Notable Quote:

"Your new and different audience wants quick decisions, whereas your same same audience appreciates detailed, structured information."
– Nikki Rauch [30:08]

d. Story vs. Highlights

• Story: Engages those who appreciate narratives and detailed accounts.
• Highlights: Appeals to those who prefer concise, bullet-point information.

Example: Michael reflects on podcast formats, balancing storytelling with key takeaways to cater to diverse listener preferences.

Notable Quote:

"A story is worth a thousand pictures, but highlights can pique interest enough to draw someone into the full narrative."
– Nikki Rauch [34:52]

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5. Language Techniques in NLP

Nikki discusses specific language adjustments to enhance marketing effectiveness:

a. Replacing "If" with "When"

Using "when" creates a sense of inevitability and confidence, reducing hesitation in the audience.

Example:

"Instead of saying 'if you're struggling,' say 'when you're ready for a change.'"
– Nikki Rauch [44:09]

b. Replacing "Can" with "Will"

"Will" conveys certainty and authority, strengthening the promise made to the audience.

Example:

"Change 'this can help you' to 'this will help you' to assert confidence in your offering."
– Nikki Rauch [46:13]

Notable Quote:

"These small word changes can significantly boost your credibility and the persuasive power of your message."
– Nikki Rauch [44:55]

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6. Practical Implementation Strategies

Michael and Nikki explore actionable steps for marketers to integrate NLP into their strategies:

a. Experimentation and Feedback

• Test different language styles (toward vs. away from, story vs. highlights).
• Use surveys and direct feedback to understand audience preferences.

Example: Michael suggests using surveys to gauge whether the audience responds better to motivational traits like new and different versus same same.

Notable Quote:

"Pour more gasoline on what's already working and listen to your clients to refine your approach."
– Nikki Rauch [39:55]

b. Building Rapport and Flexibility

• Establishing rapport is foundational before attempting to influence.
• Remain flexible and adapt techniques based on audience response and context.

Example: Nikki emphasizes the importance of adapting language based on whether the audience is more toward or away from certain motivations.

Notable Quote:

"Building rapport means making your audience feel comfortable, which is essential before you can influence their actions."
– Nikki Rauch [16:40]

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7. Conclusion and Resources

As the episode wraps up, Nikki provides resources for listeners interested in diving deeper into NLP and sales strategies:

• Podcast: Sales Maven
• Social Media: Instagram at @yoursalesmaven
• Free Ebook: Closing the Sale available at yoursalesmaven.com/ebook, which offers practical language techniques for enhancing sales conversations.

Notable Quote:

"Embrace these NLP tools to enhance your marketing and sales efforts, and watch your influence and sales soar."
– Nikki Rauch [47:27]

Michael concludes by reminding listeners to explore upcoming workshops and to engage with additional content through the AI Explored Podcast and the Social Media Marketing Talk Show.

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Key Takeaways:

• NLP enhances marketing by improving communication and influence.
• Understanding motivational traits helps tailor messages to different audience segments.
• Small language changes can significantly impact the effectiveness of marketing messages.
• Building rapport and being flexible are crucial for successful application of NLP in marketing.
• Continuous experimentation and feedback are essential for optimizing NLP strategies.

For marketers looking to elevate their influence and sales techniques, integrating NLP offers a powerful pathway to connect more deeply with audiences and drive meaningful actions.

Transcript

[Michael Stelzner]

Got big marketing goals for 2025, but you're not sure how to achieve them. Learn what works from the brightest minds in marketing by attending Social media Marketing World 2025 this March. That's where you'll learn how to apply AI to your work, the latest in organic and paid marketing and strategies you can put to work right away. Secure your future by getting your tickets at Social Media Marketing World. I hope to see you there. Welcome to the Social Media Marketing podcast helping you navigate the social media jungle. And now, here is your host, Michael Stelzner. Hello, Hello, Hello. Thank you so much for joining me for the Social Media Marketing podcast brought to you by Social Media Examiner. I'm your host, Michael Stelzner, and this is the podcast for marketers and business owners who want to know how to navigate the ever changing marketing jungle. Today I'm going to be joined by Nikki Rauch and we're going to explore neuro linguistic programming. We're going to talk about what it is, how to use it to increase your influence and your sales. If you're new to this show, be sure to follow us so you don't miss any of our future content. Let's transition over to this week's interview with Nikki Rauch, helping you to simplify your social safari. Here is this one week's expert guide. Today, I'm very excited to be joined by Nikki Rauch. If you don't know who Nikki is, she's the author of multiple books including Buying Signals and the Selling Staircase. She's also the founder of Sales Maven, a sales training organization that helps women entrepreneurs close more sales. Her podcast is Sales Maven and her group coaching program is the Sales Maven Society. Nikki, welcome to the show. How you doing today?

[Nikki Rauch]

I am fantastic. Thank you so much for having me.

[Michael Stelzner]

I'm excited that you're here. Today Nikki and I are going to explore how to use neural linguistic programming for greater influence and sales. And if you don't know what that means, we're going to get to it in just a minute. But I want to start with your story. How in the world did you get into marketing, sales and this crazy thing we're talking about today?

[Nikki Rauch]

Well, how I really got into it was through a college project, believe it or not, way, way back. And through a college project, I got my first professional sales job. And it was in a technology space and I had a lot of success there. So much success. I working for a small. Well, they weren't that small. But a dealer who sold flat panel displays, you probably don't even remember these flat panel displays. They sat on top of overhead projectors like your math teacher used to use it to project the image up onto the screen. Of course, they don't have those anymore.

[Michael Stelzner]

I remember.

[Nikki Rauch]

Yeah, okay. But that's the first piece of technology I started sharing and I did really well there. I moved my way up from being like a dialing for dollars outbound sales rep to becoming their national sales manager. And then I moved to the manufacturer side. I had a lot of success there. And that's actually when I started studying neuro linguistic programming. And I know we're going to get into that, but the reason that I started studying NLP is because I thought, well, you know, I'm putting myself in all these different situations. I'm meeting all different types of people with all different types of background, and I really need to up my sales game. And I found that by studying nlp, it allowed for me to become a much better communicator. That really helped me step up in sales. It also improved all the relationships in my life because I've been became a better communicator and had a lot of success in my career and eventually found my way into entrepreneurship kind of by accident. Somebody I was helping somebody grow her business. And also as I was meeting her clients and meeting kind of women out in the world, I was finding that a lot of women entrepreneurs struggle with the money conversation in their business. And I'd had so much background in that, I just started kind of helping some of them. I wanted to hang out with really cool entrepreneurial type women that were super passionate. And so I started giving sales advice. And finally one of them pulled me aside and said, like, why are you not teaching these skills to women? They need your help. And I thought, that's dumb. Who would possibly ever pay me to learn how to sell?

[Michael Stelzner]

What year was this?

[Nikki Rauch]

That was in 2013 is when I actually started sales maven.

[Michael Stelzner]

Cool.

[Nikki Rauch]

And I thought, will people really pay me to learn these skills? To talk about buying signals, to talk about how you use language to have more influence in conversation. And it turns out 11 years later, here I am almost 12 years later, later, now, going like, this is the best gig I've ever had. And I really get to spend time with passionate entrepreneurial women and teach them how to have more strategic sales conversations.

[Michael Stelzner]

So along the way, you wrote some books and you started membership and all that kind of stuff. So kind of bring us up to like the present, what you're doing now, and a podcast.

[Nikki Rauch]

Yeah. So the podcast actually started as a result of me being on podcasts. I really started getting interviewed on podcasts kind of 2017, and then 2018, I was on so many podcasts that people started telling me, I binge you on podcasts. And I was like, well, how could you binge me? I don't have a podcast. And they're like, oh, I just go into the podcast app and I just search your name and I listen to all these podcasts. So in 2020, I actually launched my podcast because I thought, well, if somebody wants to binge me, maybe I should just put out my own content in addition to guesting, which I still do. Quite a bit of the podcast has been. I started it really with the intention of giving people that experience of like, what is it like to be coached by Nikki, to feel comfortable, to kind of take that next step? And that leads them into my group coaching program, which is the Sales Maven Society.

[Michael Stelzner]

Very cool. All right, well, thank you for sharing your story. Let's start with why should marketers care about neuro linguistic programming? Because obviously it sounds like it's got great applications in the sales world. What about marketers?

[Nikki Rauch]

Well, the reason marketers should really care about NLP for short is that it's about having influence. And isn't that what marketing is about? It's about encouraging people to take action. And so with nlp, when you learn how to use it effectively, you'll find that you have more influence in your conversations, in your content. It brings somebody to want to take action. And I know I shared this with you when we were talking earlier, like my all time favorite quote, which I think is the perfect example to exemplify like what is NLP is or what does that mean Is blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent out of shape. And NLP teaches you how to add flexibility to your behavior, to your marketing, to your language, to the message that you're putting out into the world so that you can attract the right people and frankly, repel the wrong ones.

[Michael Stelzner]

Interesting. Okay, so just so I fully understand the why case here, Neuro linguistic programming will help anyone who has a message that they're putting out to the world to connect with that correct audience. And when that happens, that will increase the likelihood that they will follow you want to consume more of your content, want to check out the products and services you have to offer. And in a world where awareness is a struggle because there are so many people creating so many different types of content at varying levels of quality, if you can understand what neuro linguistic programming is you can increase the likelihood that you will be more successful. Is that really what I'm hearing you say?

[Nikki Rauch]

You nailed it. You nailed it 100%, yes. When you make it easy for people to take action, when it feels like, oh, my gosh, this is speaking right to me, this is speaking to the heart of my issue, and therefore, I want to take action or I want more or I'm going to follow this person, I'm going to listen to their podcast, I'm going to consume their content, which is why we're putting content out into the world. Right? When you make it easy for people and it feels like you're speaking right to the heart of their matter, of course they're going to be in. So the other thing too is it kind of sets you apart from all the other marketers out there where everybody's using kind of the same messaging, the same format. Like, is there a way for you to stand out? Because isn't that what we're trying to do is differentiate ourselves so that we again identify who are our right fit clients? And frankly, I'm a big fan of repelling people who aren't the right fit because that takes up time, it takes up money, it takes up energy. So we want to bless and release people as fast as possible who aren't a good fit for our products and our services.

[Michael Stelzner]

Bless and release. I like that. Okay, let's define what the heck Neuro Linguistic is and then the program inside of it. Let's break it down in a way that people can understand it, and let's go as deep as we can go just so people can grasp what it is.

[Nikki Rauch]

So Neuro has to do with how we process information in our brains. Linguistics is language. So language is how do you speak to others, how do others speak to you? And also any internal dialogue you've got going on, because there's a lot of uses for nlp, not just sales and marketing. So any of that dialogue that's going on important to recognize because language has influence, right? And there's lots of words that you can choose. But when we start to understand that the words that we choose mean something to somebody else, it's kind of like the. You've probably heard this analogy a million times where they talk about the iceberg, right? Like, what you see above the water is just the tip. And what you see below the water, like, that's where the bulk of it is. So when you're choosing words, sometimes it feels like I'm just choosing a word. But what you're really doing is that's the top of the iceberg. And words have meaning, and meaning is what causes people to take action. When something means something to somebody, now they're going to take action on it. So that's the neuro. The linguistic and programming is about habits and patterns and when you can recognize as a marketer your own habits and patterns that could actually be limiting you from attracting your ideal clients and. Or the habits or patterns of your clients, your ideal clients. How can you work that into your marketing to again, to attract more. Right. Like attracts, like we want more of our ideal clients, typically.

[Michael Stelzner]

Okay, so what I'm hearing you say neuro is the brain.

[Nikki Rauch]

Yes.

[Michael Stelzner]

And the neurons and stuff that are happening inside of our brain. Right. Linguistics is the science of language. Right. And something along those lines. Right. It's how we use language. Right. And every culture has its own use of language. Right. Every language, like English language is going to be different than Chinese or Japanese, for example. And then programming, it sounds to me as if programming is a little bit about. And it sounds like it could be different for every person. But the way we react to the language we hear. Is that really what you're saying with the programming or is it more about reprogramming ourselves? Like, talk to me a little bit about the programming side of it, because that word can mean so many different things. Right. With coding it means like to make something, but with training it might mean to like acclimate people into a certain kind of belief system with things like growth, mindset. That's also potentially programming. So let's unpack the programming side of it because there's so much there, right?

[Nikki Rauch]

Yeah, you're right. There is so much there. And the thing about programming, what you said here, because how I define NLP or how NLP is not defined, not just me, but it's about habits and patterns. Right. And most of us default to our habits and patterns. And so it requires, if you want something to change in your life, you've got to make some effort here to change some kind of a habit or pattern. Now, sometimes habits and patterns to understand them are super impactful because it's that like, oh, forward momentum. This is my habit. So of course I'm going to sign up for this program. Of course I'm going to participate in the program because that's my habit or that's my pattern. And then there's also, like, where you can use habits and patterns for like pattern interrupts. Do you want to help change behavior? Does the Client or the prospect want their behavior to be changed. So can you speak to that in your marketing? So it really kind of goes back to what's the outcome that you want here and what are you trying to do? It can be hard to change somebody habits and patterns if they don't know that's just how I show up in the world. But in reality, there's a process and there's a program for how you show up in the world. And when you can understand your own process, when you can understand other people's process, it allows for you to have more influence.

[Michael Stelzner]

As I start to think about this whole world that we're in as marketers, a lot of marketers are in the business of persuading as our salespeople. Right. Our job is to kind of understand where someone's coming from and to try to present them an alternative reality. Right. That is better than the reality that they're in right now by buying our product or service. How is the concept of persuasion different? Or do the Venn diagrams overlap a little bit here? Like, help me and my audience understand concept of persuasion and the concept of NLP and whether or not they're kind of one in the same or have a little bit of overlap?

[Nikki Rauch]

Well, the thing about persuasion is, like, what is going to be persuasive for somebody? Because what might persuade you might be different than what would persuade me. So understanding what is that thing that moved your clients into action. And if you don't understand what moves them into action, super hard to be persuasive. Because some people, like a salesperson or a marketer person that wants to say, like, you know what, if you don't do this, like, your life is going to fall apart, things are going to really fail for you. You are going to struggle. Now, some people like that kind of language. I happen to be kind of on the opposite side of that. So if you show up and that's the language that you're using, chances are I'm not going to buy your product or service because I don't buy into that. That doesn't work for me. But if you say, nikki, when you buy this product, things are going to get better. You are going to see so much success. Things that you have only ever dreamed about are going to be possible for you. I'm. I'm like, I'm in. I'm ready to buy. So when you think about persuasion, it's really understanding the client. Now, there are some things that go into that, because sometimes, and I know we're Going to get to this. So I don't want to jump too far ahead, but at some point, you need to think about where do people fall? Your ideal clients, where do they fall? Because not everybody wants the, like me, the what am I running towards? Some people need a little bit of like, what do I want to avoid too? And so you need to work that into your marketing. So when you think about persuasion, it's like, like what really moves your clients into action. I know marketers love to hit on pain points. Again, I feel like I'm jumping ahead here.

[Michael Stelzner]

Well, okay, I want to ask you this question because somebody in my audience is going to want me to ask this question.

[Nikki Rauch]

Okay.

[Michael Stelzner]

Isn't NLP mind control? Because maybe they've heard people slimily use this technique to try to get people to do something against their wills or wishes. Is it or isn't it?

[Nikki Rauch]

It's not mind control. The thing about if you're selling to adults, which I still have yet to find anybody who the adult isn't the ultimate buyer. Right. Even if you're selling kids toys, it's not necessarily the kid going out and spending the money on it. Right. It's the adults. So you're selling to adults and is it mind control? No, it's. It's really not. It's learning how to have more influence. The more influence you have in the conversation, the easier it is to move people in to action. Right. So it's not mind control. That's one of the things. And I do get that pushback quite a bit. As a matter of fact, when I left my corporate job and started helping somebody grow her NLP practice, there was a rumor that went around that I had joined a cult because that's what people thought they were like. Nikki joined a cult. This is crazy. There's nothing cultist about it. It's really about, do you want to have more influence? Do you want to make more of an impact in the world? And do you like having tools at your disposal to do that? I mean, I know, I've been listening to you and, you know, you've been talking a lot lately about AI and the tools that are out there and how it makes your job better and how it makes you more efficient. NLP is just another tool to be used now. Can it be used for bad just like any tool? Can it be manipulative? Yes. But again, you're selling to adults and they get to make those decisions.

[Michael Stelzner]

Okay, perfect. So let's assume right now that we are interested in understanding, wanting to get Started with nlp. Where do we begin? Where do we need to start?

[Nikki Rauch]

Well, I teach that the foundation is built on rapport and if you don't have rapport, it's very hard to sell to somebody. So you want to think about, do you have permission to sell to this person? You definitely have permission to put marketing content in front of them. But we all know what it's like to look at our email every morning and have 18 emails from somebody saying like, I went to your social media and I checked it out and you really suck at social media and you should totally hire me. And you're like, delete. You don't have my permission, first of all to look at my social media and then to comment and also to bash me about it. Right. Like that doesn't actually work. I don't know. I, I don't ever buy from those people. If somebody's listening, they're like, oh, I love that. I love when people tell me I really suck and then I go and buy from them. Chances are you are an anomaly. Most of us are like, like, do I even want help with social media? And then if I want help, are you the person that I'd be interested in getting help from? Are you building relationship? Are you building rapport? So think about your foundation being rapport and relationship matters because there's so many choices out there, right? There's so many people we can hire. You know, there's a million sales coaches out there that you can go and hire. But do you want to work with a sales coach who really resonates with you? Chances are yes. Like you're not going to go hire a sales coach that every time the person speaks you feel like gagging. Right. Like, I don't want to work with this person. So are you making an impact in the world and are you able to communicate in a way that again draws people in, makes them feel comfortable because ultimately they're the decision maker.

[Michael Stelzner]

Okay, cool. Any thoughts on how to actually do that specifically when we don't have the advantage of having a one to one conversation with somebody like a salesperson would?

[Nikki Rauch]

Yeah, there's a few ways that you can do this. So again, I love the language piece. The pieces, the stuff that gets me really excited. And I spend a ton of time working with my private coaching clients on tweaking their language, whether it be on their sales page, their email communications, their conversations that they're having. Once they, like, you know, bring the lead in the door, how do they actually close it? So there are things that you can do that will repel people. And there are things that you can do to draw them in. One thing first and foremost is be thinking about how is your messaging coming across. Most of us write our messages, our marketing messages, and all of our messages because we're thinking it like we have thoughts and then we write it out. But that is your thought. And is that actually going to resonate with the reader? And from a sales perspective, this is the thing I think I always tell my clients, like, I will give you technique, but I want you to know that I'm always thinking about your client. And every piece of advice I'm giving is thinking about how is your client or prospect going respond to this. So when you're writing your marketing materials, it needs to be written for the reader. How are they going to experience it? And so I can get into. We can go as deep as you want and specifics around this, but how is the reader going to read it? And if it's. It's all about me and my thought process that is rarely very interesting to somebody who already doesn't, like, know me and like me, they're like, I don't really care about Nikki and her thought process. I care about does her product or does her service meet my needs.

[Michael Stelzner]

So I think this might be a good transition into the concept of motivational traits. Right. Talk to me about what those are.

[Nikki Rauch]

So motivational traits, this comes from my background in NLP through the language and behavioral profiles. So motivational traits are those things that move people into action, which of course, when you think about marketing, isn't that the ultimate goal is to move people into action? And there are different motivational traits. So I'll touch on a couple of them that might be helpful for your listeners. When you think about what is going to drive people into action. One of the first, and I think the easiest ones to start to work into your marketing materials is thinking about what's known as toward and away from. So when you think about. I actually mentioned this earlier. The analogy is some people will run their fastest to win a gold medal. They're like, I love to win. I love to be first. And they're going to do everything they can to achieve that success, whereas other people will run their fastest to get away from a German shepherd. They're like, I don't want to get bitten. That seems scary. I'm going to run my little legs off and try to get away from this. So the things they don't want. So there's this idea of toward and away from language. Now, I also want to comment here and say that people fall on a spectrum, right? So like everything in life, there are certain people that will kind of be in the middle of the spectrum. There are certain people that will be more towards one side or the other. And in your marketing, if all of your language is written from a away from strategy, like you want to stop this, you don't want this, you're afraid of this happening, that's all away from kind of language. Well, what will happen is you'll eliminate the people who are really motivated towards the toward language. So it's learning how to bring a mix of it in. And one of my rules on it is I always say because I'm very toward. So that might not be surprising as you listen to me speak like I want to win, I want, I want this success, I want the change. Whereas somebody else maybe doesn't want to lose. They don't want the status quo anymore. It's the same thing. But one is away from language, one is toward language. So I tend to write a lot of toward language and I have to go back and I'll say, okay, if I've got five bullet points here, I want three of them to be toward language because I like working with people who are similar to me so that towards mentality. But then I've got to work two of them to be away from language. So the things they don't want, the things they're ready to stop, the things that they are sick of. And so when you're thinking about your marketing, it can't all be one or the other because you will eliminate a huge potential group of buyers by doing that.

[Michael Stelzner]

I was reviewing feedback from past Social Media Marketing World attendees when something stopped me in my tracks. A marketer shared that while our conference delivers incredible value, the total investment of a ticket, hotel and travel felt very challenging in today's environment. I get it. And it made me think very deeply about why this year 2025 is different. Here's the reality. We're at a pivotal moment in marketing history. The rapid rise of AI with the evolution of social algorithms has created both unprecedented challenges and opportunities for marketers. There's never been a more important time to think, think and plan deeply for the future of marketing. This is why social Media Marketing World 2025 is designed to be your complete marketing transformation. Listen to what Ellen Griffo said. Quote I came to San Diego hoping to learn valuable strategies and left with knowledge I didn't even know I was looking for. That will completely Transform the way I approach my marketing, unquote. Think of it this way. Way. While there's a cost to attend, there's a bigger cost to falling behind. One breakthrough strategy, one key connection or one new technique will transform your entire year. And if travel really is off the table, consider our virtual option. Secure your spot today and save by visiting social media marketing world.infox. i'm looking forward to meeting you in San Diego. Let's do a hypothetical. Let's pick any topic that you want and give me some examples of and it could be with a client, it could be with your own business. Just so people can wrap their head around this towards versus away language.

[Nikki Rauch]

So one example of having putting together an offer, right of what's going to drive behavior. And if you ask clients, they'll tell you like what was the thing that got them to buy, right? And a lot of times they'll either speak in toward language or they'll speak in away from language. But the fact of the matter is I have enough clients that I can hear often where maybe some people have a mix of it but tend to have one like be stronger in one modality than the other, either the toward or the way from. So a specific example of a client who shows up and if I only speak to her in toward language, it's like the lights are off. Like she doesn't come alive in a session with me. But if I can talk to her about the things that she's going to avoid, the things she's going to save herself time, the energy that she's not going to have to expend on something. Now the lights come on. Now she's leaning in. Now she's ready to take action and implement on something versus again, a client who has a real toward type mentality. If I speak about the energy that she's going to save or she's like, you're not even speaking my language, like I'm not going to take action on this. I'm not going to implement what you're suggesting, Nikki. So I have to pay attention to that in my conversations with a client. Are they motivated towards or are they motivated away from?

[Michael Stelzner]

So let's just pick an example and I'll, I'll free flow with you a little bit. You mentioned earlier, I have a show where I cover AI called AI Explored. And I've spoken to a lot of people who are all over the spectrum as far as their level of interest related to AI. And there are some people who are absolutely scared that AI is going to displace their job. And for them, they are running towards. Well, technically they're running towards something which is a future where they're more valuable because they know that just around the corner is some other marketer who's AI enhanced that's coming for their job. Right. So maybe technically they're running towards a better enhanced future for themselves. Another benefit that a lot of marketers love is how it allows them to have increased productivity and also increased creativity and they desire to run away in this way from the overwhelm that they're facing right now. Right. So I could talk about like, hey, if you're facing a lot of overwhelm and you've got no time to do deep work, AI is your solution, right?

[Nikki Rauch]

Yeah.

[Michael Stelzner]

That's like running away from it, right?

[Nikki Rauch]

That's right.

[Michael Stelzner]

Imagine a future where you had all the time you needed to accomplish the deep work that you want to achieve that's running towards it. Right. So this is me positioning both sides of the equation. And what I'm hearing you, you say if you just focus on this imagined future reality, you're going to be leaving out the people because there are some people who are going to be more motivated by running away from this other scenario. Right. So how do we even know. That's the bigger question. How do we even know which one to focus more on or the other one on? Is it just go with whatever your nature is or what it's bring a.

[Nikki Rauch]

Mix of it in. So when you start looking at your messaging, if you look at it and you go, this is all toward language. How can I take one sentence and make it an away from? Right. So when you're talking about you're going to have all the time you need to do all the things you want. That's toward language. But if you look at it and you like all my other language is toward how can I take that same concept and make it an away from type thing? So you're not going to end your life having not done the things you know you were meant to do. Right. It's kind of the same, same concept, but it's that away from strategy. Because those people who are highly motivated by the away from, they don't want to waste their life, they don't want to get to the end of the life and not have accomplished something versus the person who's like, I want to have all the time, I want to work on the deep work and make the impact I want to make towards versus away from.

[Michael Stelzner]

Okay.

[Nikki Rauch]

And it's just learning how to bring it in.

[Michael Stelzner]

Okay, we've talked about towards versus away. Yeah, there's others. Let's keep going.

[Nikki Rauch]

Yeah, there's definitely others. Okay, so there's two that are options or procedures. This is another kind of motivational trait. Options versus procedures. Options people are the people that are the. Like, they want to know that there's flexibility in how they can achieve their outcome, whereas procedures people, they want to know that there's a structure too. And if I follow the structure like a roadmap, I'm going to get success. Now, for your options person, there's this great analogy where they say, somebody who's a highly motivated options. If you say to them, here is a tried and true way for you to make a million dollars, they will take that tried and true way and they will try to improve it because it speaks to that options piece. Okay, So I actually learned this when I launched the Sales Maven Society, my group coaching coaching program. Early on, I wanted to give a structure to it. And so it was like, okay, so in month one, when you come in, this is the content that you get to go through first. And then month two, it opens up this new bit of content and then you get to go through that content. Okay, totally fine. For the procedures people, because they like the structure. The options people are like, it's way too limiting. I want to watch month three now and I want to watch month nine next.

[Michael Stelzner]

I love it.

[Nikki Rauch]

So then when I opened it up and said, here's my recommendation for how to go through the content that meets the procedures people. But when I say, but you can go through it at your own pace and in the things that call to you, speaks to the options people. So now I've broadened my buyer group by having some flexibility in the way that I present the offer.

[Michael Stelzner]

Talk to me about new versus same same.

[Nikki Rauch]

So people that have the new new and different is a motivational trait. Those are the people that they always want the latest and greatest. They want to try new things. They often are the people who, some area of their life, they make change often. It could be the person who moves every two years. Could be the person who changes their job every two years. Years. Right. Or every year, even depending. Or if they change their offers often as well because they get bored. New and different. They need that new and different. And then there's the people who are known as same same. So again, we're talking about on the spectrum. You can fall anywhere on the spectrum. But same same are the people who will like, I'll stay In the same job for 30 years. As a matter of fact, I live in the same neighborhood that I grew up in and we live in my parents house. We bought it. You know, it's like we know those people too. And when you're speaking to that again from a motivational trait is if you're only speaking to the people that want the experience, the new, like the same people will be like, I feel a little scared. I feel a little scared about taking this kind of action. That's it's too fast for me to make this kind of movement. Like I need time to really kind of think about it, right. And process it. So when you're thinking about it from a marketing standpoint, you're new and different people. Like one of the things you want to do is you want to be able to let them make a decision really quickly. So where are you putting your buy buttons? Are you putting at the bottom of your like huge long sales page and that's the only place they can buy? Because your new and different people are already like, I'm probably moving on. Like, I'm already bored reading all this content. I don't know where the buy button is, so I'll just move on to the next thing. Whereas your same, same people, they'll love all that content. They'll love your big long sales page with all this great stuff that's there for them and they can read every testimonial and they can click on every video. You're new and different people. Where do I buy? And if you don't make it easy, I'm moving on.

[Michael Stelzner]

This is really fascinating because recently, as of this recording, I published a special episode of my podcast where I talked about marketers are not realizing what is happening. And when I got near the end of the podcast, I addressed two different people in my audience. The lifelong learners, which I call the new and different people, and the people that are all about systems and processes. And I had a message for each of them. And for the lifelong learners, I said, look, this is an incredible opportunity for you to learn AI and really get a competitive edge on a lot of other marketers are going to be slow and it will enable all these things. And then to the people that are systems, procedures and love structure, I said to you all, hey, I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but something's going to have to change. Like this is a time for you to break your patterns and embrace something new or you will be left behind. And I was very direct with them and I said to them, I understand what your fears are. However, there is something great and beautiful waiting for you on the other side. And I went on to explain that everyone who's ever embraced AI has actually come out with newer, better procedures and happier in the end, you know. So I kind of employed these techniques.

[Nikki Rauch]

You sure did.

[Michael Stelzner]

In a really cool way, which is kind of fun. So that's just an example that came to my mind.

[Nikki Rauch]

That's a perfect example.

[Michael Stelzner]

Yeah, I'd love to talk about story versus highlights too, because that's something we talked about when we were prepping for the show.

[Nikki Rauch]

Yeah. So story versus highlights also speaks to like options and procedures people. The options people are more like just the facts. Like give me the bulleted list, make it super easy for me. Whereas the story, the story people, which this sometimes I always feel like, is this right? Like I have to look it up every couple years to re. Remind myself that yes, procedures people, they love the story. Because the thing about a story, a well told story is it has a beginning, a middle and an end. Right. So it's a process. So your procedures people will love the story. Nothing wrong with putting story in your content. And again, you'll attract a certain type of buyer. But for somebody who has that options, they're really options driven from a motivational trait, the story, they'll get lost in it. So when I'm thinking about copy and when I'm putting marketing content out into the world, I'm always thinking like, is there white space? Are there bullet points? Is there bold in here? And then if I'm going to tell a story, do I break up the. Like I probably have more paragraphs than most people because, you know, is the content somewhat scannable too? Because again, your story people, they'll read the whole story and they'll love it. But your options people, they'll want just the facts. Like just give me the facts. Let's move through this.

[Michael Stelzner]

You know, this is absolutely fascinating to me on many levels because as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about this show. This show is not for people that want the highlights because this is a 45 minute interview that starts with a story. Right. And there might be some of my listeners that fast forward through the story, but if they've listened long enough, they know I always start with the story. And if they want the highlights, I would imagine they would probably just go read the article version of this. Right. But I'm a strong believer that all people really enjoy story. I'm curious in this case Whether or not people can vacillate back and forth depending on how much time they have? Like, do you find that you're either a story person or a highlights person? Or could you be both, depending on how limited amount of time that you have available to you at the moment? I'm just curious what your thoughts are on that.

[Nikki Rauch]

Well, the thing about motivational traits is they're context specific. So in certain contexts, I'm probably very. I love story, so I will be really into story. And I love to hear at the beginning of a podcast episode what somebody's background is and what their story is. I love that. But there are times where I'm like, okay, give me the facts because of timing, right? So in certain contexts, I will change my pattern a little bit. Now, under stress, we will like revert back to what our strongest modalities are. That's just kind of the nature again, habits and patterns that we will revert back to. So I wouldn't ever be afraid of having story. And in certain context, when people are here to learn, story is the language of the brain. You've probably heard this saying, Michael, where they say a picture is worth a thousand words. Have you heard that?

[Michael Stelzner]

Of course.

[Nikki Rauch]

There's one where they say a story is worth a thousand pictures. I don't know if you've heard that one too.

[Michael Stelzner]

I've not heard that one.

[Nikki Rauch]

So the thing about story is it is incredibly impactful and you don't want to skip it. But you also do want to think about, like, if you're going to send out a newsletter about a podcast episode, you probably wouldn't put the whole transcript in there, right? Because we want to encourage them to go listen. But when you put the. The highlights in there now, it piques their interest enough to go, do I want to invest time and energy to get the full episode, the full story?

[Michael Stelzner]

Well, and it's really intriguing because I think about some of the YouTube videos that I see on YouTube or even television shows I watch where they'll put a couple highlights of what's about to happen just before, like, they'll grab the money quote out of the interview, right? Or they'll take a couple of cool quotes that happen somewhere in the middle of the interview and they put it right at the beginning to kind of give someone a reason to stick out the entire interview. So so far, here's what we've talked about. We're going deep on motivational traits, okay? And these are traits that move people into action. The first concept we talked about was Toward versus away language. This is conceptually understanding whether our audience wants to move towards a desire or move away from a fear. Right. Then we talk about options versus procedures. And this has to do with whether or not people prefer on the procedure side, structure and formatting and clear delineation of. Here's the steps versus flexibility. On the other side, which is the option side, where it's kind of like just a box of Legos, you know what I mean? And you can make anything with it. Right. And these are the people that probably tend to be a little bit more creative as my guests. Right. And then you've got new and different versus same same. And these are people that are really attracted towards the staying up with the latest stuff. And the same same are very much about structure and procedure. Again, I saw you nod when I said something earlier, so I want you to provide clarification of what I was saying about the. The other thing. So go ahead.

[Nikki Rauch]

Now, I'm not sure what I was nodding about because I was totally following along.

[Michael Stelzner]

No. Okay. So it was when options and procedures. Yeah, I think I said something that maybe wasn't accurate or was I dead on accurate with that?

[Nikki Rauch]

Oh, okay. So one of the things you want to think about with options and procedures is that I said creativity.

[Michael Stelzner]

People maybe prefer more options.

[Nikki Rauch]

Yeah, yeah. Might be more creative. I always want to be careful about assigning any type of statement around that to the type of person and what that means.

[Michael Stelzner]

I see.

[Nikki Rauch]

Because again, it's context specific. Like certain areas of your life. You know, there's people out there that have these jobs and they do these like super technical stuff and then on their downtime, they're super woo woo. And they're out like, you know, in the forest and, you know, finding rocks and finding, you know, and it's like we have different parts of our personality. So you want to be careful about making too broad of a brush around somebody and saying like, this is the box they live in. So that was why I think I gave you a little bit look like that's cool.

[Michael Stelzner]

That's why I wanted to come back to it because I received that and then story versus hugging highlights. Okay, so I think a couple questions on this that everybody in my audience is probably asking. How do I know which one of these areas to focus on? Should I kind of lean a little bit more heavily towards the ones that are natural for me, or should I go out there and try to figure out something maybe that I don't have answers to? Like how in the world are they supposed to know where to put their emphasis in their communications.

[Nikki Rauch]

Well, from a sales side, you know, like attracts like. So who are your ideal clients? Clients. And when you speak to your ideal clients about what motivated them, what caused them to take action, are they telling you a bunch of story or are they giving you the bulleted list? About, like, this was why I took action. Like, your offer was good. The timing was perfect for me versus the person's like, well, when I got your offer, this is what was going on in my life. Right. Like, who's your ideal client? Because we want to usually I always say, like, pour some gasoline on the thing that's working. Right. Like, we want to build a bigger fire and we want to bring in more of our ideal clients. So speak to your current clients. Most of the best ideas in my business have come from my clients because I listen to what they're saying and I listen to what it is that they want and the thing that moves the needle. One of the things I asked my clients at the end of our sessions often was, what was your biggest takeaway from today? And oftentimes their takeaways are the things that I will then go and build content around. Around.

[Michael Stelzner]

I like this. I also think surveys could be really powerful here.

[Nikki Rauch]

Yes.

[Michael Stelzner]

And this is where we could ask a series of questions in different ways and just kind of see, like, strongly agree, strongly disagree kind of questions. Right. So we could take something in our business that we know we sell. For example, I'm, you know, selling AI related training. Right. At Social Media Marketing World. So I could ask questions around that, that kind of get at whether people are more motivated towards or away from certain kinds of languages. Right. Y and then I could. Look, my other thought is, if it's in your nature to speak one way and you've always spoken and communicated that one way, maybe you're a towards person and maybe you use highlights. How about using away from language and just see if it works, Right?

[Nikki Rauch]

Yeah.

[Michael Stelzner]

And how about trying stories and just see if it works? I mean, I would imagine you could experiment with your written content or your spoken content, and then you can measure the reaction that people have to your content by the number of rich comments you get or the direct messages you get or the response to the emails you get. I don't know. I just love to hear your thoughts on how we can like experiment with these things a little bit.

[Nikki Rauch]

Yeah, I think when you think about the stuff that we're talking about, it might seem like, oh, well, that seems too hard because I'll just Revert back to my natural patterns. Right. But the thing about, you know, blessed are the flexible, for they shall not be bent of shape is, is how do you add tools to your toolkit? So again, I'm thinking about you and all these amazing AI tools that you're sharing with people. And the thing is, yeah, there's probably a lot of them, and I get to pick and choose which ones I'm going to dive deep into. But it's nice to know that there are other options out there. And there are a lot of different AI tools you could use, but you pick certain ones in certain instances to use. So just like what we're talking about with nlp, it's like, like, can I bring in some away from language? Because I've only always done toward language. Can I stretch myself to learn a little bit of a different style? And the more that you learn, right? And the more that then your capacity, it becomes easier because it's like you're building a muscle. Just like the first time you went on to chat GPT, right? Like, I didn't know how to put a prompt in there, but now I've gotten better at it, and sometimes I still don't do great, but then, then I'll keep trying and then I go, okay, so next time, this is the type of prompt I'm going to use. So it's about, like, with nlp, toward and away from language, options versus procedures, new versus same. It's just learning to add one more tool to your toolkit, picking it and going, I'm going to make an effort to try this right now. And then, of course, see what kind of feedback I get. A lot of the stuff that I teach, people will say like, oh, I've never done it that way. And then they'll come back and they're like, nikki, I tried this and oh my gosh, it worked. What else do you have have, right? Like, now they're in, they're ready. They're ready to try something new because they tried it and they, they saw success. Or sometimes they'll come back and be like, well, that didn't work. And I'll go, great, let's try something else.

[Michael Stelzner]

Let's talk about language. There were a couple words that you recommend experimenting with, and one of them was if. Talk to us a little bit about these words and, and kind of maybe how we might want to reframe them and why they're so valuable.

[Nikki Rauch]

Okay, so if is a very common marketing term. Like, if you're struggling with this, here's this offer. Now, the thing about if is it essentially says to somebody, slow down, think about it. Are you sure? Are you sure this meets your criteria? So I actually recommend. This is very nlp and again, this is very Nicky. And the sales kind of way that I sell is I think I actually use when so instead of if, it's when. So when you're struggling, when you're ready for a change. Because now it's just that that forward momentum of the person is like, yes, I am struggling. Yes, I am ready for a change. Not if I'm struggling. Am I struggling? I'm not sure. Am I? Let me think about it. Like, no, that's not your job in sales and marketing.

[Michael Stelzner]

I like that because the word if kind of in the brain requires you to have. It's like a binary yes or no kind of thing. Right?

[Nikki Rauch]

You have to make a decision.

[Michael Stelzner]

Right. But when is just one thing. Like when. When this happens to you or when you decide to. It's not a decision that's burdening the brain. It's more like a cue that you're putting on the roadside. Right. And that's really fascinating. So do you find that that works really well?

[Nikki Rauch]

I do. I've been using it for years and I recommend it to my clients that they make this change that. And the other thing about this is again, do you want to differentiate? Do you want to stand out from the crowd? Because I guarantee you, most all of your competitors are using if statements constantly. If. Now, do you want your content to read differently? Do you want people to react differently? You got to change up some of the words. And if is a really easy one to switch to when. And you'll find it works just the same as far as like, you don't have to change even the way like your bulleted points about what you go, you know, like what goes underneath it, that content can still remain the same. You can have some toward and away from language in there, but at the same time, if you just get rid of the if and put the win in, it replaces very easily. Easily. It's not a heavy lift. Of all the things we're talking about, this is a super easy one to change.

[Michael Stelzner]

What about the word can?

[Nikki Rauch]

The thing about can is again, it's a very overused marketing strategy and it kind of implies to the reader it can do this, but it might not. Like, it could help you, but it might not help you. So oftentimes when I'm looking at can statement statements, I say will statements. I'll replace them with Will, this will change this for you. This will enhance this in your life or whatever it is that you're putting behind it. Look at your can statements and can you change them to will statements? Because they're really standing in your credibility and your authority. Like I know that what I teach works and when my clients implement they get results. So this will will make a difference to your consultation close rates. This will make a difference to your open rates. This will make a difference when you do it. Now if you don't do it, you're not going to get results but it can make a difference to your open rates. That's so soft and wishy washy. So again, look at your can statements. Can you change them to will statements? It's a stronger, more like I'm standing in my authority and my credibility and I'm speaking from like what I know as my expertise. Expertise.

[Michael Stelzner]

I love it because it's very declarative and it's, you have to be brave to be able to make those kind of statements and you have to believe in what you're selling. This has been absolutely fascinating. Nikki Rauch, if people want to discover more about you, do you have a preferred social platform for them to connect on and if they want to work with you, where do you want to send them?

[Nikki Rauch]

Well, I'm going to encourage people to check out the podcast first and foremost because obviously there's a podcast listeners and they like a podcast. So check out out sales maven. I tend to hang out most on Instagram, so your sales maven. And then if you're ready to take a next step, I'll wrap it around a gift for you. I have an ebook, it's called Closing the Sale and it talks through some really simple language that you can switch up in your sales consultation calls and build your confidence in closing those calls more quickly. And you can get that by going to yoursalesmaven.com ebook and I'll gift that to you and then we'll be connecting connected.

[Michael Stelzner]

Nikki Rausch, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

[Nikki Rauch]

Thanks for having me.

[Michael Stelzner]

Hey, if you missed anything, we took all the notes for you over@social mediaexaminer.com 654 and by the way, Nikki will be teaching a workshop at Social Media Marketing World specifically designed to help you sell. So if you're in a position where you own your business and you struggle selling yourself specifically to people, human wonder one interactions. Well, Nikki's going to be doing a workshop on that by the way, if you're new here to the show. Be sure to follow us. If you've been a longtime listener, would you give us a review on whatever platform you're listening on? And do check out our other shows, the AI Explored Podcast and the Social Media Marketing Talk Show. This brings us to the end of the Social Media Marketing Podcast. I'm your host, Michael Stelzner. I'll be back with you next week. I hope you make the best out of your day and may your marketing keep evolving. The Social Media Marketing Podcast is a production of Social Media Examiner. We're in the biggest shift in marketing history, with AI and social algorithms transforming everything. That's why Social Media Marketing World 2025 isn't just a conference. It's your complete marketing transformation. Whether you joined us in San Diego or virtually, one breakthrough could change your entire career. Secure your spot today atsocial media marketingworld.in fox.