← Social Media Marketing Podcast
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- [00:01]
A
After 12 years of running Social Media Marketing World, I can spot the difference between two types of marketers pretty instantly. You've got the reactive marketers who come looking for quick fixes. They need to solve Instagram's latest algorithm change or figure out why their Facebook ads are not working. They walk away with answers, but months later they're back in the same cycle. Then you've got the visionary marketers who come looking for the complete picture. They they want to understand how AI enhances their marketing, how paid and organic strategies complement each other, and how to build a marketing system that adapts to any change. They walk away transformed and they stay ahead for years to come. Listen to what Fadan Aladdon said after attending this conference changed my life in many ways. It changed my vision, it changed the way I was approaching my strategies in marketing and I made wonderful connections. Social Media Marketing World 2026 gives you complete AI mastery platform specific strategies for Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok plus integration frameworks that connect everything together. Grab your tickets today by visiting social mediamarketingworld.info and transform your marketing approach before change forces your hand. Welcome to the Social Media Marketing Podcast helping you navigate the social media jungle. And now here is your host, Micha Michael Stelzner.
- [01:26]
B
Hello hello, hello.
- [01:28]
A
Thank you so much for joining me for the Social Media Marketing Podcast brought to you by Social Media Examiner. I'm your host, Michael Stelzner and this is the podcast for marketers and business owners who want more exposure, more leads and more sales. There's a really good chance that if you do use paid social, you are probably using Instagram and Facebook. But what about Pinterest? Have you ever considered that platform as a way to expand into an audience that you might not be reaching otherwise? Well, if so, then you're going to enjoy today's episode. I'm going to be joined by Karen Nelson and we're going to talk about how to scale with Pinterest ads. Also, if you're new to this podcast, be sure to follow this show so you don't miss any of our future content. Let's transition over to this week's interview with Karen Nelson, helping you to simplify your social safari. Here is this week's expert guide. Today I am very excited to be joined by Karen Nelson. If you don't know who Karen is, she is a paid media expert who helps coaches and course creators scale their revenue with Facebook, Instagram and Pinterest ads. Her services include comprehensive multi platform ads management. Karen, welcome to the show how you doing today?
- [02:46]
B
Hi, Mike. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
- [02:49]
A
I'm excited you're here, Karen, because today we're going to talk about Pinterest ads and how to scale with Pinterest ads. And it's something I've not talked about in, like, forever. But before we go there, I'd love to hear a little bit of your story. How in the world did you get into Pinterest?
- [03:03]
B
Yeah, sure. So I actually did not start my career in marketing at all. I started as an elementary school classroom teacher.
- [03:10]
A
Nice.
- [03:11]
B
And as I was teaching, I started creating content for other teachers on how to add technology into their classrooms. And I realized as I was sharing it, trying to get it out there, that Pinterest was the best way for me to do that. And I actually had one of my pins go viral because a bigger marketing agency shared it. I started researching that agency because you always want to know who makes your stuff go viral. And I'm like, you know, I might want to actually work for them instead of teach. So I applied, got a job, and that's where I sort of built my digital marketing chops. I learned everything there is about digital marketing, everything about running an agency, about paid ads, realized that paid ads were really what was interesting to me, not writing content, and left after a few years to go start my own agency running paid ads for other small business owners just like me.
- [04:00]
A
So how long have you been a marketer, then?
- [04:02]
B
I've been working in marketing. Eight, nine years. Ish. I mean, if you count the time that I was both marketing and teaching, we might be able to get that up to 10 or 11, but officially as my main job for quite a few years now.
- [04:14]
A
Excellent. Well, it's really cool when a teacher becomes a marketer because I feel like there's so much overlap between creating content in the classroom and creating content that can be shared for the masses and marketing. There's like that Venn diagram. Overlap is there, and it's very strong. I consider myself an educator, although I've never formally educated inside of a classroom, so it's really cool. So you've been working with Pinterest for a while, and a lot of the people that listen to this show probably are focused on everything but Pinterest. They're probably over Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, dot dot dot, LinkedIn, X, you know, all the things, but they're probably overlooking Pinterest. So why don't you just share a little bit about why, at least when it comes to paid Pinterest might be something worth pursuit.
- [05:05]
B
Well, it's for exactly that reason. I feel like it's a little bit of a missed opportunity for most marketers because most paid advertising agencies are spending their budget on those other platforms like Meta, YouTube, all those places. But if your client or customer is on Pinterest, it's a huge missed opportunity and it's a little bit of a blue ocean because not a lot of people are spending money over there and you can end up with some super strong results. And the other reason I think it can be really a good idea is because your advertising dollar can go just a little bit further on Pinterest. But because the platform itself, the content lives longer. Organic content on Pinterest and paid ads play into that can live a minimum of three months. Whereas like Instagram, Facebook posts, those kinds of things are an hour lifespan. TikTok can get up a little bit higher or an Instagram reel can get a little bit higher, but still not matching Pinterest where if you have good content, it can last for even a year. So those two reasons are why I think it's just a great opportunity for the right business. There's lots of space, it's not competitive and the lifespan can be longer and your, your ROI can be bigger in the long run.
- [06:18]
A
Love it. Okay, so we're going to spend a few minutes here talking about what we need to understand about Pinterest ads. Here's what I know about my audience. They're all in on organic across all the social platforms. A fair number of them are also leveraging the meta platform, know Instagram and Facebook for ads. So what do they need to know about Pinterest? Like what are some of the foundational things we ought to address here?
- [06:41]
B
Well, I think the first thing is that it's really not too much different than the other platforms where most people are hanging out. The there's pretty good crossover and if you're using the other ones, you'll probably be okay. But it is different. And one of the main ways that it's different is that it is not technically a social media platform. And if you've been in the Pinterest world for a while, you've heard this, it is more of a search based platform. And that becomes really important when we're talking about it from an ads perspective because it means that our potential customer that we meet on Pinterest is in a totally different spot than the one we're meeting on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, those other places because they're coming in and they are searching for ideas about something that they want to create, buy, understand. And so they're already interested, they already have proven interest in what our ad is going to show them. So that's one main difference. Another difference is sort of the demographics on Pinterest. I was surprised to hear recently they have half a billion monthly active users and half of those people are Gen Z. So it's the only platform out there right now that is skewing younger and not older. And it's one that's really captivating that Gen Z audience. It also has millennials and boomers and Gen X and all of those. But the fact that it's been able to capture those Gen Z people puts it in a little bit of a different spot.
- [08:04]
A
Just out of curiosity, what is the Gen Z? Just for people that aren't good with the math, are we talking 20 somethings?
- [08:08]
B
My kids age? No, it's generally the younger, I would say young 20s, maybe mid-20s to.
- [08:14]
A
Yeah, okay, here we go. It says 13 to 28 years old. Okay. So born between 97 and 2012. Okay. So we're talking about from the most part teenagers all the way up until high 20s. Okay. So it could be literally anyone who is just fresh out of college, young families, but it could also be obviously teenagers and stuff like that. That's fascinating.
- [08:35]
B
Yeah. And the fact that they were able to bring in this younger demographic when everybody else is losing their young people is really, in my mind, kind of impressive. And the way that Gen Z shops is different. They go into their apps and search on their apps like TikTok or Instagram. They aren't going to Google like some of the older generations are. So when they're going into Pinterest and searching, it's a little bit more aligned with the way that they're already shopping. So it can be a real good opportunity there too.
- [09:05]
A
So so far we've talked about how it's more like a search engine and less like social, and the demographics are a lot younger. I know we've got a lot more to share here, but I do want to ask this question. Does it still have a feed like the other platforms, or is it mostly not really a feed anymore?
- [09:22]
B
Good question. And that is one key thing about it that's different. It's a visual platform. It's visual first. And it does have a feed for sure. And if you're seeing it on desktop, there's probably like three pins across the top that you can scroll through. I'm Usually on my tablet. And so there's three or four pins. If you're on your phone, it's just a regular feed like TikTok, Instagram Reels.
- [09:46]
A
That kind of thing with just one column. Yeah, okay. Yeah, okay, cool.
- [09:49]
B
And so then when you show up, you're scrolling and it does. It's smart to just like the other platforms and show you things that you have shown interest in. But it also has a very sophisticated search platform so that you can search for things that you're interested in. So things like recipes, home and garden things, teachers, like how I first discovered it. Those types of niches can do really well because people know to show up to Pinterest to look for that kind of thing. Gifts, too, can be another great opportunity. On Pinterest, I could go on all day about some of the features. Those are the top ones. If you want more, let me know. I've got like half a dozen others in back of my brain. I could pull out.
- [10:30]
A
No, keep going. I mean, like, what kind of businesses are doing well on there?
- [10:33]
B
Yeah, so it is tending to be E Com. They have they. In the beginning, they didn't totally land, but it is moving more towards E Comm. So people with products that they're selling, because that's what people are searching for. And one of the things that's interesting about it, and we talked about this a little bit in the beginning, but people on Pinterest are in a different spot on their customer journey when they show up because they are actively searching for the solution to their problem. Whereas when we hit them on meta or even TikTok with some sort of interruption ad, they may not have even thought about what we're offering. It just kind of showed up in their feed and we have to distract them from whatever cool video they're watching, convince them to click on our thing and go over to our site to maybe shop. Whereas on Pinterest it's showing up in the feed or in their search right alongside other things like what we're offering. And it's something that the customer has asked for. And so they're already five steps ahead of what's happening on Facebook. So then it's a much easier task to get them to click over to our sites and at least learn more. If not click, make a purchase and sign up.
- [11:45]
A
Can you also explain a little bit about what kind of insights they have on consumer behavior? Because of the way that people like, store categories of information, all of that kind of insight can actually be real, powerful, targetable data.
- [11:59]
B
Yeah. They're targeting. I really like how they do it. They have what they call Pinterest trends. And so you can go and look at what's trending on Pinterest and sort of anticipate what's coming and put that sort of those trend informations into your ad targeting and leverage that information. And if you're working with a rep, you can get them to do even more behind the scenes data about what's coming, what's trending, what's popular, what's fading to adjust that with your ads. That's another thing that's different about Pinterest is the reps are leaps and bounds above what I found on meta. If you've spent any money on meta, you know there are reps and they will call you and try to get you to spend more money on Pinterest, but they really don't know what they're talking about. My Pinterest reps know what they're talking about. And it was a team effort getting our success with ads because we were all able to use sophisticated knowledge about Pinterest to get our results.
- [12:58]
A
When we were prepping for this, we talked about the partner platform. I'm not sure exactly if we've addressed that. And also maybe we could talk a little bit about how the search can be visual. If I'm not mistaken, I seem to recall it's got really good ability to like take a picture of something and find similar things. I don't know, maybe we can talk about that a little bit and maybe part of why that makes it so attractive to a certain audience, it can.
- [13:21]
B
Sort of read the pins and the images on the pins and use that AI to identify what's in it and show it to other people. And they were really ahead of the game on that. That started happening on Pinterest before it started happening on other platforms. It's almost news on Pinterest that they're reading images like that, which has really been helpful in creating an entertaining feed that people really want to stay on. And then yes, they do have a partner platform that is, is great for connecting and the ads platform. The other thing that I learned not too long ago is that people who are clicking on ads on Pinterest are, are 70% more likely to follow through and buy that product than on the other platforms, which is kind of amazing. And I think it has to do with the fact that we are hitting them in that different spot in their customer journey where they're more interested in whatever it is that they've showed up to Pinterest to engage with.
- [14:23]
A
Can you just briefly explain, like, how your average consumer is using Pinterest? Because obviously on Instagram we know that they're just there doom scrolling looking at, you know, you know, reels, for example. But isn't it true that on Pinterest people are saving collections of information of stuff that they might want to use for interior design? Can you talk about that a little bit? Because that might give insights to advertisers, Right? I would imagine.
- [14:49]
B
I've been on Pinterest all last week because I am planning a trip to Europe and I need to know where to stay, what things to see and what places to visit. And I have one board for each country that I'm visiting. And so I've got a board for Italy, a board for Greece, and the advertisers have plenty of opportunity to pitch me not only things about Italy, Greece and London, suitcases, travel organizers, all of those sort of things tied into what they are seeing on my board and what they're seeing me search for by typing things into the keyboard. Same thing with a home and garden. I just remodeled my kitchen and did a ton of research on Pinterest. It shows me pretty pictures. I ended up picking a navy blue and gold theme. I clicked on a couple of pins that had that theme and suddenly my whole feed was filled with navy blue cabinets with gold trim and white. And I was able to go through all of them. As an advertiser, it'd be super easy to get your pin to come up right alongside the pretty navy blue pins. And that's what we did with one of our clients in the home and garden space. They were also in that space. And we were able to take their content from Facebook and Instagram because they showed up to me looking at wanting Facebook and meta ads. And yep, that's what a lot of our clients do. And they're like. And yeah, Pinterest too. And so yeah, we did Pinterest too. They were home and garden. We were able to take their Instagram content and put it onto Pinterest pretty much as it was. We only had to make a couple of little edits and just change up the words a little bit and had amazing results because there were people on there interested in this home and garden space, searching already for ideas. And the content was spot on. We knew the client had an offer and we could run with it.
- [16:42]
A
Love it. Okay, so so far, here's what we know. Half a million active users. Half a billion with a B. Yep. Big chunk of that is Gen Z, which is that 13 to 28 year old. And obviously there's a lot of other people that are of all other age brackets that are using it. And we know that it's generally used as a discovery platform, for lack of better words, to find information, like in your case, information about where to go when you're in Italy or France, or information about how you might want what colors in your kitchen, that kind of stuff. And now what I want to do is let's imagine we want to advertise on Pinterest, right? So we've covered the foundations of kind of how it works, but now where do we actually need to begin when it comes to advertising?
- [17:25]
B
I find because Pinterest is similar to the other platforms, we approach our advertising strategy pretty much the same way. And we kind of go through a three step process to think about advertising. First we look at the offer, then the assets and then the architecture. And so I'll go into each of those a little bit, if that's okay with the offer. What we really want to make sure of with our clients even before we bring them on, is that they have a proven offer that's already selling and they have a consistent way to sell that offer to strangers who would find them on the Internet. Because with our ad platforms, meta Pinterest, any of them, what we are doing is we're amplifying the results that are already working, we're amplifying your product that already sells. And so we want to make sure before we even start building on Pinterest that you've got a solid offer. Because my amazing ad strategy will do nothing if your product doesn't sell. We'll just spend a bunch of money. But if you got a product that sells, we can go into Pinterest and leverage their tools to get more eyes on your product and hopefully more buyers. So you need the product that sells, you need the selling process. And a lot of times that's as simple as Shopify. If we're talking about an E Comm situation, if it's an info product, you need a little bit more of an extended customer buying journey. But we want to get people to the product and have it have the selling process. And that's the first step is just knowing that we've got a solid offer that's proven and ready to go. And that's what we ran into with my home and garden client. We knew her stuff sold, she was amazing at selling her stuff. And so putting it on Pinterest was just a logical step. It was just one more way to get in front of people. The next thing that we try to get to is we're trying to get our assets lined up real quick.
- [19:14]
A
Before we go to assets. I think it might be worthy to explore what kind of audiences might not actually work on Pinterest. Because we've mentioned home and garden and we've mentioned travel and you've mentioned info products. Have you yet found an audience that doesn't work on Pinterest? Or said another way, have you found that certain kinds of niches or categories seem to perform better? Specifically on Pinterest?
- [19:40]
B
I would say that it's more that I think that you can have success with quite a lot of things that might surprise you on Pinterest. Because I've had success with coaches and doing lead generation. I've had success with curriculum creators, with coaches. But the biggest success I have had has come from people selling products. And so that's just something to keep in mind if you are going to try to sell something different on Pinterest that is not maybe in the home and garden space or in one of their main categories. Categories, yes, it might be a little bit more of a slog. You might have to do more to take your potential customer from stranger on Pinterest to buyer. You might have to do a little bit of more nurturing from point A to point Z. But Pinterest gives you an advantage when you are in their ecosystem of typical niches. If you're not in their ecosystem of typical niches, you could still advertise there because there's still the feed experience and your ad could still show up. You would just have to work harder. More like you have to work on Facebook or Meta or the other platforms to get them from out of context ad to buyer. Because that's what's happening on Meta is you get an out of context ad with some targeting but mostly out of context and you move them towards buyer.
- [21:04]
A
So there's a couple questions that are going through my mind. Are most of the things that people buy on Pinterest impulse purchases, kind of like what happens on Instagram or are they really expensive purchases like actually a house or like a really expensive car or like an interior redesign of your home? I mean like are these kinds of really complex purchases also doing okay? I'm just curious what your thoughts are on that.
- [21:30]
B
I would say that they are more thought driven, research driven purchases. I've seen products that are up to thousand dollars selling in an E comm method on Pinterest and it's because you're researching, planning a project. Maybe you're planning your remodel or planning your garden, or planning a trip and you discover the item on Pinterest research more. You usually visit the website, gather your information, and realize that this high ticket thing actually is going to really help you and you buy it. So that's one thing that's interesting with Pinterest though, on that same line of High Ticket Items vs Low Ticket Items and impulse purchases. Generally we know that impulse purchases are the lower ticket items and they happen more quickly. High ticket items have a longer customer journey. You take more time to make the decision. And that's why Pinterest often finds itself at the beginning of the customer journey rather than the end. It's not always true, but. But we'll see. Most ad platforms give you 30 days and they'll take credit for 30 days. Up until recently, Pinterest was giving you 60 days of being able to take credit for the ads because they know that it can take that long from doing research on a pretty expensive item to then going and buying it. And if Pinterest was the first one to get you interested in that item, they deserve at least some of that credit. They've moved to 30 days because they are trying to act more parallel to some of the other platforms that media buyers know better. But it still hasn't changed the truth that the customer journey does take longer on Pinterest and with higher ticket items.
- [23:17]
A
This is an interesting story. Since 2013, social media marketing World called San Diego home. It was beautiful. The weather, the sun, the energy. But last year something became very clear. We had outgrown our space. We needed room to properly host two world class conferences, Social Media Marketing World and AI Business World simultaneously under one roof. San Diego couldn't give us that, so we're moving to Anaheim, California. Here's what you gain. Two conferences in one modern location where you seamlessly can move between social marketing and AI sessions. Plus you get perfect weather with Southern California sunshine. And and here's the bonus, it's literally walking distance to Disneyland. That means you can bring the entire family and make memories beyond the conference, maybe even with some of the friends that you meet at the event. Kristin Christian said, quote, I love Social media Marketing World. That re energizes me and my passion for the field I've chosen to work in, surrounding myself with others who, quote, get it and having the opportunity to learn. Plus get sunshine is so valuable. Anaheim lets you be the marketer who invests in your career and and creates magical family memories all in a single trip. We didn't just move locations, we upgraded the entire experience. Better facilities, easier access, more opportunities to connect and yes, the magic of Disney literally right next door. Join us April 28th to 30th, 2026 in Anaheim. Visit socialmediamarketingworld.info and get your tickets today. It makes sense that the purchase decision would take longer on Pinterest because people seem to be using it as a research platform or as an ideation place where like their, their idea boards, their, their dream boards, all that kind of stuff are kind of there kind of makes a lot of logical sense. So once we already know we have a proven offer and ideally that offer is in alignment with what the Pinterest audience is interested in. You mentioned the next thing is assets. So talk to me a little bit about what we need to understand. Define what you mean by assets and then let's, let's dig in.
- [25:17]
B
It's probably my favorite thing about Pinterest right now is creating the assets because it's really easy. Because right now on Pinterest, the very best assets, the very best assets on Instagram and TikTok. And so if you are advertising on Meta already, it's pretty easy to pull your content from meta over to Pinterest. So your reels, your static images, all of those things can be taken almost directly from one platform to the other. You have to do a little bit of copy that's a little bit different on Pinterest, but it's not too terribly different. I mean, we would take the existing Instagram copy, tweak it a little bit ourselves and with AI, and put it into Pinterest and get good results from that. So that makes it super easy to add it on to whatever is you're doing with your ad strategy. And the one thing I will mention is for any of you old time Pinterest users, like I was when I was using it, when I was teaching, there was this thing about images and they were super long images. I made some for that agency I worked for that probably had 15, 20 stacked on top of each other.
- [26:28]
A
Yeah, like an infographic, almost right infographic.
- [26:30]
B
Or like 20 different classroom ideas for decorating your classroom. They were long and those are gone. You don't have to make big designs. And that's another thing, you don't really have to do a lot of design at all as long as your content's compelling. My client who was in the home and garden space, her reels were not that great from A design sense, but they were powerful because they stopped the scroll, they caught people's attention, they got them interested enough to click, and then they went on to buy.
- [27:05]
A
So I want to explore all the different kinds of creatives that we can do with this. But you did mention earlier that the copy needs to be tweaked a little bit. If you're advertising on Instagram or Facebook and you switch over to Pinterest, give us some tips on, like, why it needs to be different and maybe, like, explain that.
- [27:24]
B
So a lot of it has to do with the fact that we are hitting our buyers in a different spot in their customer journey. We want to kind of capture their attention in that first sentence, which isn't too terribly different from Instagram and Facebook. So that's one reason why it needs to be a little bit different. It can be shorter than what we'll typically put in an Instagram ad. And there's a lot of different opinions on how long your copy should be for an Instagram ad. Or some people go really long, some people go really short. Pinterest is sort of a mid spot. So if you've got really long copy on your Instagram, you're going to want to shorten it for Pinterest because you don't want it to take up that much space. And then you need a pin description also, which is kind of like a headline, but it's a little bit more enticing and it's a little bit more about what you're going to get when you click. But that's one thing. For any of my friends who have run meta ads and been through the rejection process, knowing how picky meta can be about what you're putting out there, especially in terms of different creative assets, Pinterest is better. Pinterest is not as picky. You can get away with a lot more on Pinterest than you can on meta. And so you don't have to fine tune your copy, especially if it's maybe in a gray area to get it through. It goes through pretty easily.
- [28:48]
A
Just so people understand what a pin description is with words, try to visually kind of communicate where that shows up.
- [28:54]
B
When you're looking at a Pinterest feed, either on your laptop or in your phone, you're scrolling these images and if you tap on one of them, it opens up into something bigger and then there are words that go with the image. Just like on Instagram is how it kind of is now too, that describe what the pin's about. It gives more information and Tells you a little bit more about why you should click to learn more, see the product, that type of thing. It's, it's super similar to any other social media platform that you're scrolling.
- [29:26]
A
Is the call to action, click to learn more kind of thing on top of the image. Is it in the description? How does that work exactly? Is there a button?
- [29:34]
B
Yeah, there's a button or some of them just go straight through when it's an ad.
- [29:38]
A
Okay.
- [29:38]
B
And it's a pretty seamless customer experience. Just go. Yeah.
- [29:42]
A
So you mentioned some of the creatives images and reels or short form videos, whatever they call them on Pinterest. So talk to me about images. Like what is the recommended size of images? Because obviously if anybody's been on Pinterest, it sounds like you can do a bazillion different sizes. Is there like a recommended 16 by 9? 9 by 16, one by one. You know what I mean? Square, like. Any thoughts?
- [30:06]
B
Yeah, well, and actually used to there were a bazillion sizes. Now it is pretty standard and it is two by three most of the time for both reels or videos and images.
- [30:19]
A
Okay.
- [30:19]
B
So you end up with, you know, checkerboards are square, but it's basically a checkerboard but rectangles all sort of lined up and they're all pretty consistent. So there's nothing hogging the space like there used to be. And there's not like super long pins. And even if they were there, they've chopped them off and gotten rid of them and don't show them anymore. So. Yeah. And then the other thing to keep in mind with images and videos for that matter, is the one ad type that I also like in addition to just a standard video or a standard image is a carousel. We sometimes have really good luck with those. Putting a collection of videos one after another that you can swipe through. The same with the images one after another that you can swipe through. And we can use those sometimes with our catalog ads. And that can be a really powerful tool because you're giving people a collection of things to look at. And it's just like the meta catalog ads where you're pulling from usually the Shopify catalog of products and showing all of them to the client or to the customer. And they can kind of go, oh, well, I like that kitchen island and I like that sink, but oh, I really want that one. And they can kind of swipe through all of the different ones. That's my favorite.
- [31:33]
A
Just to clarify, are carousels images or videos when they're ads or are they only videos? That's the first question. And then you mentioned catalog. Does that only work with like Spotify? I mean, not Spotify.
- [31:47]
B
Shopify.
- [31:48]
A
Shopify. I'm getting my.
- [31:50]
B
Yeah.
- [31:51]
A
Does it only work with those kind of, you know, WooCommerce, Shopify kind of stuff, or can you set up your own? Let's start with the first part of the question, which is what is a carousel? Is it like just images or video or can it be both?
- [32:01]
B
Both, but not at the same time.
- [32:04]
A
Okay. And then a catalog ads. Do you have to have some sort of a third party e commerce system basically to pull that out?
- [32:10]
B
That's my knowledge. You have to. I've never done it without. There might be a way to do it that I don't know about, but generally either some sort of platform like Shopify or Woocommerce that builds a catalog. Shopify I like because again, Pinterest, trying to be friendly, has built a lot of integrations with Shopify so that it just automatically connects. Setting up a catalog for digital advertising can be a little bit of a pain. With Shopify and Pinterest, it was the easiest setup I've ever had. It just like worked. And so you do usually want a platform like that, but it's pretty easy to set up once it goes. And then it just pulls in the creative and the products that the customer has shown the most interest in. And so it's very highly targeted and it also pulls in the most high performing creative and it really captures the attention of a specific shopper on Pinterest really well because it's able to use creative and products and put them in front of the right person at the right time.
- [33:17]
A
You talked about how the size of images and videos typically is two by three, which means it's slightly taller than it is wide. Right. And a lot of reels are filmed in 9 by 16. Right. Where it's kind of like your phone sideways. Does this mean that you have to crop your reels or does it mean that when it shows up in the Pinterest feed, does it crop it so it fits into that format? Do you understand what I'm asking?
- [33:44]
B
I do. And we did not crop our Instagram reels that we moved over. We just moved them straight over and they worked. And that's the. That's basically sort of the philosophy is as long as it's getting results and purchases, it works. And like I think I said this earlier, the reels that we had from this client, in this particular example, the home and garden example were not pretty. They were relatable and they looked authentic, like it was your friend sort of sharing things. But they weren't well designed. They just had text on them that was appealing and said, hey, I'm going to show you this home and garden thing that I can do and you can do it too. And once they clicked, there was a product on the other end of it that helped you do the home and garden thing. Yeah.
- [34:27]
A
I would love to talk a little bit about creative, the process of creating the creative. I know there's these words we use. So when it comes to images, what do you recommend as far as the way they look? Are we talking about images with lots of text on it that are baked into the image? Are we talking about photographs? Like, what's your thoughts on, like, the best kinds of images that work inside of an ad?
- [34:48]
B
So I might flip that real quick and say that the best thing is actually a video and not an image.
- [34:53]
A
Okay, perfect. But let's just assume somebody has images and they don't have video. Is there any kind of reason why they couldn't use. Do you remember how? I mean, I don't know if this is too true still, but Facebook used to punish you if you had a lot of text inside your. Your images.
- [35:09]
B
That was so hard, right?
- [35:10]
A
Yeah. And it got to the point where they kind of wanted us to minimize images with text. So it looked a little bit more like organic, if you will. Are you finding that stuff that looks organic tends to get better performance than stuff that looks like ads? Whether it is a video or an.
- [35:25]
B
Image, 100%, the more authentic it looks and the more sort of real and relatable it looks, the better results you can get. And it also sort of, when it matches what you typically see on the Instagram or TikTok platform and feels native to it, then it also feels native on pinned. And so a lot of times in our situation it was a video or an image. We kind of used those interchangeably, both. And I can talk about why in a minute. With just a little bit of white square over the image. Not take, not covering the image, not all text, but just a little bit of white and then very simple font with the hook or the interesting idea spelled out on that white square. So it stood out, but it didn't cover the whole image or video. Because Pinterest really is a visual place and there aren't rules about how much text you want an image. But you're going to get better results if you have more image and less.
- [36:25]
A
Text, just to be clear for people that can't see your hands.
- [36:29]
B
Yeah.
- [36:29]
A
What I'm. What I'm envisioning you saying is even though it's two by three, you could hypothetically take a square, right? And that could be where the picture is. And then just a little smidgen at the bottom, you put a headline in there or some sort of text in there, whether it's video or still image. That way there's something for people to read. Is that what I heard you say?
- [36:48]
B
Yeah. And for the people who are spending time on Instagram and TikTok, it's that same sort of format with the dark text, white background just covering up maybe a third. That's even a third is too much like a 6, typically at the bottom.
- [37:03]
A
Or at the top. Where, like, where do people normally.
- [37:05]
B
Either one.
- [37:05]
A
Okay.
- [37:06]
B
Either one.
- [37:07]
A
As far as the length of these videos, if we're going to do short form video, any recommended or restrictions from your experience with the ads on Pinterest?
- [37:16]
B
The video ads, I like to aim for 10 to 15 seconds. I think I was looking recently. You know, the rules on all these platforms change all the time. So to be quite honest, when I'm building on a platform, I check AI and I'm like, okay, what are the current rules on whatever it is for dimensions, length, all of those things. But generally you want it to be long enough to capture their attention. So however long that takes and then to convince them to take an action, which is hopefully to click over to your site and further by. But we're really trying to get that first click. So as long as it needs to be to do that is what we're aiming for. But sometimes about 15 seconds, you know, you could do it shorter. The video is there in the feed whether you're looking at it or not. Especially if you're on desktop and can loop.
- [38:03]
A
Can you go with a 60 second video or is that like.
- [38:06]
B
I think I remember when I was looking it up that you're gonna have to ask AI, but I think I remember reading 15 minutes recently.
- [38:14]
A
15 minutes, yeah.
- [38:15]
B
Which I know is a really long time and in my opinion too long. Which is kind of why I don't know where the end is, because I would never put content in there that was that long because it wouldn't be effective for an ad.
- [38:26]
A
I mean, if you have a really good organic, a reel on Instagram that's performing and it's 30 seconds, is it worth a try or would you recommend.
- [38:34]
B
Yeah, okay.
- [38:35]
A
Okay. All right. Anything else we need to know about the creative and or the assets before we get into the actual back end of how the architecture and all this kind of fun stuff works. If not, you can just transition right over into the architecture and kind of explain that.
- [38:51]
B
Yeah, I think that we hit all the high points. The only other thing that I will say is that one thing Pinterest has that the other platforms have too is sort of a lot of special ads. Pinterest has their idea pins, they have collection ads just like Meta does. And my experience has been that generally regular ads perform better with catalog ads at times. So that's just something to keep in mind with the ads and then moving into structuring campaigns. That's really of the three things to offer the assets and the architecture, that's the one that we used to as media buyers care about the most as ads managers is how to structure a campaign. And we would hang our hats on a well built structured campaigns with audiences. And that matters. We do want to structure our campaign well. But what drives any campaign on social media or Pinterest right now, but especially Pinterest, is the creative more than the campaign build. Because more and more AI is sort of helping us along. If we don't get that part exactly right. As long as our creative is attracting the right person, Pinterest and Meta will both sort of nudge us in the right direction once they figure out how people are responding to the creative. But we do have a structure we use and it's the same one. It echoes what we do on the other platforms, particularly Meta, in that we kind of have a three prong structure. Again, people can't see my hands, but a three prong structure for our campaigns and we're trying to hit people at the three different stages of a funnel. So the top is like an engagement ad or something to just get clicks just to capture attention in the beginning to draw them either so that they can be tracked by Pinterest as an engaging with our content or tracked by our website is engaging with our content so that we can then go back and show them more pins from the next stage of our marketing strategy. And that's kind of where we put the most of our budget. And it's some sort of conversion campaign, which means we're trying to get someone to buy or sign up. And the ads are specifically designed to get buyers. And so that's where we put the most of our budget. And then we have the third tier, which is a retargeting campaign, which is where if we didn't get them to take action when we spent the main part of our budget to get them to convert or take to buy something, retarget and show them more ads to still try to earn that purchase. And that's where I think really some of the magic with Pinterest actually happens.
- [41:28]
A
So I'm curious about the placements and stuff because there's all these different kinds of things, like what do we need to do when it comes to targeting and placement? Like you said, I heard you clearly say that the creative is more important than the placement and the targeting. But like, what, if anything, do we need to do when it comes to that side of it that I'm talking about targeting and placement?
- [41:51]
B
There is a Pinterest pixel, just like there's a Facebook meta pixel. And you want that if you're running ads, that's essential. So you're going to want to have that on your properties, your sites that are in your marketing ecosystem. And then just like when you're building an ad campaign on meta or the other platforms, there's the campaign and the ad set level and the ad level. And the ad set level is where you do a lot of the targeting. And that exists on Pinterest too. What's nice about Pinterest is that their interest targeting, where you kind of identify the interest of your ideal buyer and guide Pinterest to show your pins to those people, is really well organized, better organized, I think, than the other platforms in that they've got their interest in categories. And so, for example, if you are looking at a home and garden space, you can go in and you can click home and garden. And actually, no, I'm doing garden stuff, not home stuff. So I'm going to uncheck the home stuff and just show the garden. And those categories are all nested so you can really get precise about what interests your audience. You can also target the same way with demographics in terms of age and in terms of gender. And it's helpful too, with Pinterest. It's that you can see data about who's engaging and adjust and be like, okay, we're getting women who are buying, the men aren't buying. So let's make sure we're showing this ad to women. We're getting this older age range on this. It's not the Gen Z people who are buying from us. So let's make sure this is popping up in the boomer feeds, those types of things, and you can build a campaign that uses those interests. And that's what I recommend in the Beginning when your Pinterest, it's called a tag, not a pixel, is first trying to get smart and figure out who your buyer is, is you give it a little bit of help. But Pinterest has also introduced this sort of AI targeting that we're seeing on Meta and other platforms. On Meta, it's called a. On Pinterest, it's called Performance plus. And it's where you say, okay, Pinterest, I trust you. I know you're smarter than me in terms of what your users look like and how they act. So get my pin in front of the right people so that I get clicks and they buy. And that can really work well too. I've just found that you need to sort of give a little bit of data to Pinterest first through their Pinterest tag, to sort of make sure you get headed in the right direction. So through the Pinterest tag and also with those interests. Also on Pinterest there are lookalike audiences, but on Pinterest we call them act alikes and a lot of the same things. I find that lookalikes on Pinterest don't work quite as well as on other platforms. Pinterest is really good, though. One thing that does work really well for me on Pinterest is engagement act alikes. And that's where you take people who've engaged with your pins and ask Pinterest to find more people who look like the ones who engaged. And that can be really good at drawing more clicks and getting people over to your site to buy. So that's a lot about targeting. I could go on about targeting all day long.
- [45:01]
A
Well, I mean, I'm curious about the costs. How does it compare to the other platforms? Because I know you help people manage across multiple platforms. Are you finding Pinterest as more economical or more costly? Like, what's your professional assessment?
- [45:16]
B
It's generally comparable depending on the niche. You know, one of the client groups that we work with is teachers, and teachers get cheap leads no matter where they are selling. It's like 25 cent leads are what we sometimes see. And we see that on Pinterest too, right across the board, which is just ridiculous. But it's wonderful for my teacher clients. But with other niches it can be more expensive too. And so just like with all the other platforms, the costs go up and down. I will say though, that even if it costs you the same to get a lead and to get a purchase on the platform, which is generally true, I think that because of the way that Pinterest is structured with its longer lifespan of content. You get more bang from your buck from Pinterest when you spend on ads because the ads and the content will last longer if you put them as organic content. And you can really jump start their organic system with ad spend and make things go last longer because you have put some ad spend behind it. And once you're done spending on meta, most of the time your stuff is gone but it can live on a little bit in Pinterest so your ad spend can live a little longer.
- [46:33]
A
Karen, thank you so much for answering my millions of questions about Pinterest. If folks want to connect with you and follow you on the socials, which platform should they go to? And if they're interested in possibly working with your company, where do you want to send them?
- [46:47]
B
I am Karen Nelson Digital on Instagram and Facebook, something like that on LinkedIn, but not quite. And then my website is karennelsondigital.com and we would love to help you with your Pinterest and meta campaigns.
- [47:01]
A
Karen, thank you so much for sharing your insights with us today. Happy to hey, if you missed anything, we took all the notes for you over@socialmediaexaminer.com 692 if you're new to the show, be sure to follow us. If you've been a listener for a while, we would love a review and also do check out our other shows, the AI Explored Podcast and the Social Media Marketing Talk Show. This brings us to the end of the Social Media Marketing Podcast. I'm your host host Michael Stelzner. I'll be back with you next week. I hope you make the best out of your day and may your marketing keep evolving. The Social Media Marketing Podcast is a production of Social Media Examiner. This episode is brought to you by Social Media Marketing World, happening April 28th to 30th, 2026 in Anaheim, California. For the first time ever get two world class conferences under one roof. Social Media Marketing World and AI Business World. Master social marketing strategies. Deep dive into AI. Connect with thousands of fellow marketers all in one incredible experience. Plus you're walking distance to Disneyland. Turn your professional development into a family vacation. Ready to level up your marketing? Grab your tickets now at social media marketing world.info.