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I am thrilled to announce our keynote speaker lineup for Social Media Marketing World 2025 includes, number one, a marketing futurist who predicts industry shifts before they happen. Number two, a viral video expert who has helped countless brands reach millions of people. Number three, an Instagram specialist whose AI strategies are revolutionizing content creation. Number four, a YouTube sensation whose strategies have generated over 350 million views. To discover who they are and how they can transform your marketing, visit social media marketing world.info.
Jerry Potter
Welcome to the Social Media Marketing Talk show, your guide to.
Ali Bloyd
The ever changing world of social media.
Jerry Potter
All right, on today's show, we're going to explore the most important fact Facebook updates that marketers need to be up to date on, including Facebook dropped this bombshell that, hey, we're no longer going to keep your Facebook Live videos permanently. And everyone kind of freaked out. But we'll break down exactly how long you have to save them, as well as an opportunity to repurpose them all within Facebook. Also, AI updates in the ad world, both specifically on using AI to have better performing campaigns, as well as how ads using AI are going to show up for consumers important to be aware of. And privacy laws in Europe are forcing Meta to make another big change worldwide. We'll fill you in on that as well. My name is Jerry Potter, host of the Social Media Marketing Talk Show, a Social Media examiner production where we break down all the latest social media news and what it means for marketers like you. Today I'm joined by Ali Bloyd. Ali is host of the Marketing Inc. Podcast and founder of Ali Bloyd Media, a leading training and consultancy for small businesses that specializes in social advertising. And Allie, welcome to the show.
Ali Bloyd
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Jerry Potter
As always, I'm excited that you're here too, because some of this ad stuff is absolutely over my head and you know it so, so well. But let's start with this big update. Facebook came out and just said, hey, we're not going to keep your Facebook lives forever anymore. Not too surprising because video storage costs a lot of money. But what exactly did they say in this update and what are the options for people that want to keep their Facebook lives?
Ali Bloyd
Yeah. So starting, you know, really about a week ago, they have rolled out the change that live videos are only going to be available for 30 days after, otherwise they're going to be deleted. So your older live videos that are already posted that you've had for a long time, those are going to be deleted in waves. So the most important thing to know is you need to go ahead and download or save any of your live videos that you want to keep because they will not be there anymore. You maybe are going to get, you know, a 90 day warning, but outside of that they have not said that they're going to give immediate warnings and notifications right before videos are deleted. So just go ahead, look at your live videos, download what you want to save. They are adding options in there to have Dropbox and Google Drive so that you can transfer those videos a little bit easier. You're also going to have a really cool feature too that will allow you to make clips and reels from your live videos so that you can keep them visible. Because if you take that longer live video, you convert that into clips and reels, those things will remain on the platform, but the live itself will not show up any longer.
Jerry Potter
It'll be really interesting to see what marketers do with this because on one hand my gut reaction was like, I've got so many Facebook lives, you know, but then on the other hand I wasn't sitting here worried about losing them. So, you know, we don't want to have like a, a knee jerk reaction and create more work we weren't going to do anyway. But you obviously have clients you talk to. A lot of people have. Do you know a lot of people that are utilizing their older Facebook lives?
Ali Bloyd
I'd say overall, not that much. I think that people use lives to go live. Number one. I do have lives that either we or people we work with have used for what we call level one ads. Level one ads, audience building awareness, engagement, things like that. So if you had a really good live, you can keep that running as an ad. Now if that is something that you're doing, you're not going to be able to do it with that same ad any longer. You can still download it and you can still upload it and make it a longer form video, but it's not going to have any of the engagement on it that it used to have. It's not going to have the potentially the same results depending on how you're using it because it will be a totally brand new app.
Jerry Potter
That's a great point.
Ali Bloyd
That is one use case I think that people should consider. I also know people and work with people who have some lives that have performed pretty well over the years in Facebook groups. I know for me personally I have done five day challenges for really the last six or seven years and, and those are done through Facebook lives in my Facebook group and some of them I go ahead and take out anyway. But there are some that we've kept in the group because people really enjoyed going through the content and you know, those are, are pinned or featured, things like that, those aren't going to be there any longer. So definitely would say that group content might be even more important than personal profile content because a lot of times if you're doing something in a group that you own or manage, it's more like a training, you know, it's going to have more meat to it a lot of the times. So I think it's good to look back through your old stuff, honestly, just on your profile because there could be a lot of good gems in that specific video and even if you don't use it as is taking the transcript of that video, letting AI create new short form content or even additional long form content from it could be great. And I do think too like lives, you're usually free flowing a lot more so you probably give more personality and more background information or context as you're talking. And that also is really great for AI training. So I think in my mind, like that's a really good reason to go back and get them is for the transcripts more than anything else so that you can reuse those things in the future.
Jerry Potter
That's a great point. Yeah. So anything from before February 19th, you're supposed to get a notification and an email. We know those don't always come through. So good to be proactive and you will have an option if you do see that notification to ask for an extra six months. So interesting to see how fast this rolls out. All right, we've got some important ads updates to talk about today. By the way, we are 30 days away from social media marketing world. March 30th. Marketers from around the world coming together for the 12th annual conference. Are you going to be joining us? If you want to be there, you're going to be joining thousands of marketers in San Diego. And if it's not an option for you, don't worry, you can get a virtual ticket and the conference all comes to you. You get access to all of the content, including the sessions, keynotes and the extra day of workshops all from wherever you happen to be. So grab your ticket today. Just go to Social Media Marketing world again. Social Media Marketing World. All right, some Facebook ads updates around AI as well, which we'll get to here in just a second. But first up, some updates on targeting exclusions. So what did Facebook announce around that and what Are your thoughts around this?
Ali Bloyd
Yeah. So they are removing detailed audience targeting exclusions, which means that, let's say I've got an audience of people who are interested in dogs. Well, I could do an exclusion on people who are interested in cats, for example. There are a lot of different reasons somebody might use exclusions in their ad audiences. So the only one that is going to remain is employers. So you will be able to exclude certain employers, but you're not going to be able to exclude other groups of people. They are going to have an excluded customer audiences field. And this is apparently the only way that you can manage those audience exclusions. And so I do not have these changes rolled out in my account yet. So it started in January and it's going to be fully rolled out by the end of April. If you do have these in your account, I think it would be really good to take a look at what audiences you were running and do you feel like you've seen a change in performance? Is this an audience you want to keep using or do you want to try something else? Ultimately, they're making a much bigger push in all areas to really focus more on the machine learning side of things. They want the ad copy and the ad creative to do the targeting really more than anything else. And so they've been removing a lot of detailed targeting options over the last two years. They haven't done anything with exclusions until now.
Jerry Potter
Okay, that's what I was going to ask you. So it's almost like they're going, look, our AI is going to do a better job than you anyway of knowing who's not.
Ali Bloyd
Right.
Jerry Potter
So we're just going to take away the option.
Ali Bloyd
Yes.
Jerry Potter
Okay. But custom audiences are still there. So you could exclude people who had already bought and things.
Ali Bloyd
Yeah, so those customer audiences seem to be the only thing that will say, which I think is good. I think a lot of people would be upset and frustrated if that was removed. But at the end of the day, if the targeting works really well with the changes they made, people are going to be happy about it. I think, you know, people have valid concerns because in the past they've made changes that did not produce better results. But you know, they push everyone into those things regardless instead of making it optional as it has been for the last year, two years with the advantage plus targeting. So I don't know, we'll see how it works. I do see the AI based or the machine learning based audiences work really well in certain accounts, but not in all the accounts. So we'll see how this works. I think that there's not a ton of people truly that really have to use audience exclusions other than the customer audiences. A lot of times they use them, but they're, they don't know how much that exclusion really helped their ad perform. And kind of like pre qualification and disqualification type of things. There's a chance you're excluding people who actually may be a good fit, but you just think they're not. And so you're, you're limiting yourself to only showing to certain groups of people when you might have another buying group that's in that exclusions list. And you just don't really realize it. So I'm not too scared about what might happen. I think it's always, anytime they change targeting, it's always something to keep an eye on. Especially if you've been using audiences that have exclusions in them for sure.
Jerry Potter
And maybe you'd be pleasantly surprised. You'd be like, oh, look at that. We started working back.
Ali Bloyd
Well, another thing that we have done and like to do is use lookalike exclusions. So for example, I have a pre qualification survey and the people who go through that survey and they are accepted by the survey are able to schedule a call. Those are great qualified leads. People who go through it and they are not. There's still great leads for certain things, but not for others. And that list, those people who are disqualified are set up with a certain event. And so you can make a lookalike of that event and then you can exclude that lookalike so that everybody who looks like a disqualified lead, we're not even going to show the ad at all. So that's not detailed targeting though. So I don't know if that's still going to be available or not because that's excluding a lookalike. And excluding a lookalike is different than excluding the detailed targeting options. So I'll have to see once those changes roll out to my account if I'm still going to be able to do that. I'll be kind of sad if I can't. Ultimately, the performance of the ad at the end of the day is the most important thing. And if you're not seeing any negative impacts in terms of ad performance, there's really nothing to worry about. It's a different way that they are shifting into. Whereas we used to be able to be hyper detailed in all these areas, they slowly removed those things and now it's really broad is the focus. So all we can do as marketers or as business Owners is adapt to what we have. Whatever used to work or options we used to have in the past do not remain the same in 99% of cases. So we just have to be flexible and go with the flow. And whatever changes happen, we have to identify what the solution is. So like I tell my daughter, focus on solutions, not problems, and you're always going to find something that will work for you.
Jerry Potter
Well, the big thing in ads, obviously the last couple of years, and especially meta ads, has been the integration of AI and these Advantage plus campaigns and Meta essentially saying like, you're smart, but you know, we may know more than you. Obviously they know more about who is in the audience than we do. So also some new meta Advantage plus improvements that were recently announced. What did you see in this that stands out for you?
Ali Bloyd
Yeah, so I'm actually really excited about this one because some of the Advantage plus improvements are not my favorite. We'll talk about those in a minute. The plus shopping campaigns, which can be really effective for anybody who's selling directly online, they're just changing that to Advantage plus Sales. So people tend to get really confused when they change the names of things. They aren't sure if it's a new feature or something that's already existed. And so just keep in mind, if that's something that you use or are using, it will now be classified under the Advantage plus Sales campaign. They're also adding something called Opportunity Score that's going to rank your campaigns on a scale of 0 to 100 based on Meta's recommendations. So we already have some of those things in Google Ads, basically just saying how likely is this to succeed based on how many of our recommendations have you taken? And their recommendations aren't always the best. And so if your Opportunity Score is on the lower end, don't let that make you feel like it won't succeed because they don't know what will succeed until you actually publish. Unless it has been tested in the past, their guess is almost as good as yours. There are things that we'll talk about in just a minute that they recommend and they turn on by default and I don't like them and I turn them off every single time and if I see them on, it hurts my campaign performance. So their suggestions are not always the right fit for every single person. Just make sure that that's not weighing into your decision about if you change things. So if you feel good about what you've got, you know, this is something that you can look at, but it does not mean you have to be at 100 before you're gonna find success with your ads.
Jerry Potter
But this score will actually be generated before the campaign starts, correct? Okay. I don't know as somebody who does not consistently run ads, but I do occasionally. I kind of like that just because, you know, if they come back and they go three, yeah, like, okay, maybe I should rethink some of this.
Ali Bloyd
Definitely be helpful. I think, for the most part, if you're. And I'm just guessing here because I haven't seen exactly what this is going to look like, but just based on what we already see with Google and the quality score and the engagement score, those are metrics that we already have in Facebook. And it'll just say average, above average, or below average. If you are probably within like a 60% or higher, you might be doing okay. 70% could be okay as well. But we'll see how that decision is even being calculated to begin with. Because if there are certain things they're telling you to do that maybe you've already seen don't work well for you, or you do not use that methodology, it might give you a really low score. But again, doesn't mean you should change everything just based on that. It's always good to look at it and decide, am I okay with the recommendations or not? And test from there.
Jerry Potter
Okay. All right. What else in these. These Advantage plus updates? I know you said there's some you're not happy about.
Ali Bloyd
Well, some. I actually am a little bit more happy about some of their Advantage Plus Enhancements. Advantage Creative enhancements, I guess you could say they are not going to keep these on by default anymore. So I'm really happy about that because there are several of the Advantage Plus Creative enhancements that I am not fond of and that I see a negative impact on the ABS when they're turned on. Even though it's says on the toggle, advertisers typically see a 17% lower cost per result. You know, by using this. And for me, it's been the total opposite. And with everybody that we worked with on this, I've seen the same thing. So those are always on by default. And it's not super in your face unless you know where to go to turn those toggles off. It's very, very easy to have them on without even knowing it at all. And because of that, it's really easy to make mistakes. Even if you want to turn it off, you might just overlook it or forget it. And then a lot of people, they don't know either way that this is something to turn off. And so they leave it on and in turn it could hurt their campaigns in the same way that I've seen this hurt some of the campaigns that we've worked on. So I think it's a great thing. They need to give people more flexibility. In my opinion. It's kind of this balancing act because you want to try and make it easier for new advertisers. I think that's what their goal is, at least is what their goal should be. It doesn't always seem that that's what they're trying to do, but you want to turn things on by default that you do believe will help the advertiser get better results. But yeah, that's just not always the case. The things that they do say help you get better results a lot of times doesn't. And so then brand new advertisers have these options on by default. They assume that if they're on by default, they should keep them on and then it ends up, you know, preventing them from getting the best results possible. So I do think that's a great one just for me personally. Now I don't have to worry about turning something on, but definitely for people who are newer that don't really understand that it should be a choice if you want to turn this on, not something that is always on and you barely know how to find it to turn it off. So I think that's definitely something I'm looking forward to.
Jerry Potter
Okay. And there was something else with the Advantage plus updates that was worth mentioning.
Ali Bloyd
I think that's about it. It's really the Advantage plus Creative and there are some Advantage plus settings that are being depreciated. They're not going to work anymore. You may not use them anyway. But just keep an eye on the advantage + options throughout meta because they are changing some of the names as we've mentioned, some of the default versus non default and a few of those settings are going to change. So just double check them if you're using those or setting up a new campaign.
Jerry Potter
I always feel bad for the, you know, they, they get rid of these things that barely anybody's using, but somebody's out there is using it and they're like, oh, how could they discontinue that?
Ali Bloyd
So, oh no, there was one more thing. So I think they're depreciating the AB testing feature and this is going to require everybody to test their creatives manually. But I also love this because that's what I do anyway. That's what I encourage people to do anyway. So all in all, they're changing some features that I think are good. They're depreciating some things that I think are not necessary. And if that is something that you use, I would strongly recommend that you don't stress about it. You test things manually because it ends up being more successful anyway.
Jerry Potter
Okay, so one of the big things as AI has rolled out over the last couple of years that we need to be aware of, obviously as marketers, is what is the consumer expectation of what's real, what's not, where does trust get eroded? And so Meta keeps evolving this exactly how they're doing it. And so they announced another update on transparency and ads. In terms of what's going to be flagged as hey, this is AI or this got help with AI and, and what hasn't. So what's the latest on this just so we can be aware of this?
Ali Bloyd
Yeah, so AI generated ads are going to have a transparency label. It will show up right next to the sponsored button, toggle, you know, tab, text, whatever you want to call it at the top of the ad. I mean, I think this really comes down what space you're in and how good your ads are. I have an AI advertising webinar that I'm running right now and so I have several creatives that are AI generated. I have gotten so much positive feedback on those because they're really different and they capture your attention and they're not things that I would even have had the ability to do in any other format. You know, if I was going to do this type of creative or this image or this angle, I needed things that I just can't do in real life. So I love using AI generated creatives. If the creatives are good, they are just kind of warning that buyers could have less trust with AI generated ads. And I think they're really relating this more to the creative than to the copy. Ultimately, people use AI to write copy all the time. It could be that they've got more of an AI detector that would say, hey, this copy was written by AI. I doubt that is going to be the case. I think it's really focused more on the creative side. But AI creatives can work really well if you know how to use them. And I also think this is going to get a little bit murky because you can have AI generated creatives that it's a mix of AI and non AI.
Jerry Potter
Right.
Ali Bloyd
And how is that going to be labeled? Is it going to be labeled as AI or not? What percentage of the image needs to be AI generated for this to qualify. So I do think there's going to be some questions there, but ultimately they are just wanting to make sure that people are more transparent. The ones that I'm running right now, I feel it's very obvious that they're AI generated. You know, and that's the point. Like, campaign is all about AI and using it in your advertising and because again, they are different. Not things that I would have easily done without it. But if you're using certain types of images, let's say of your product or something that's supposed to be a customer testimonial and it's really an AI avatar, you know, I think those things are going to be for the best. So it's. It's kind of a hit or miss. I don't mind if there's a label that says AI generated, if it is AI generated for my ads or for really anybody else's ads. I do think the trust factor is the number one thing to keep in mind. Because as we get more and more into AI, deep fake videos and completely fabricated AI videos, I mean, we can already do that. So they want to make sure that if somebody's seeing that type of video, that it's real and that they're not.
Jerry Potter
Yeah.
Ali Bloyd
You know, they're not having the wool pulled over their eyes. So I think that's definitely a good thing.
Jerry Potter
It's funny because what used to be like a picture didn't happen. Video it didn't happen, and now it's going to be like video. I still don't believe you. This means exactly at this point, it's.
Ali Bloyd
A mix of human and AI for anybody right now. Now you can buy for amazing things. You just don't want it to be robotic and flat.
Jerry Potter
And I think the key part of this too, as I understand it for advertisers, is if something is AI, but it's photorealistic human. So in other words, it looks like, you know, the really good AI, that's when it's going to get the tag. If it is clearly a cartoon or an animation, then they're not worrying about it as much, which I like, because in the beginning it was kind of like everything needs to be labeled AI. And and now they're leaving a little bit more up to us as humans to go. Well, I can clearly see that as a cartoon that is not actual AI. So. All right. And the privacy stuff going on in Europe, obviously they have much stricter privacy rules than we have here in the United States and that affects things worldwide, including another big update for Facebook Marketplace that Matt decided to do after being sued for almost $1 billion. So what is this update and how does that affect marketers in your mind, Ally?
Ali Bloyd
Yeah, so they are opening up the Facebook Marketplace partner program and they're going to have third party listing providers able to post ads on the platform. So I think there are pros and cons to this. The cons would be that there is going to be more competition for those placements and so cost could change depending on what that looks like. But it also could have more opportunities for visibility. I definitely think that local businesses that are selling products especially, but even services too could have a and positive impact from this. You are going to be able to optimize your marketplace listings to, I think, you know, include those or not include those, depending on what you're looking for. They don't want a flood of things from other platforms filling up the marketplace. They still want to make sure that huge percentage of the marketplace remains Facebook Marketplace. But I do think that it could be good for some and it could also have some potentially negative impacts just because of the additional placements that are going to be taken up.
Jerry Potter
Yeah, it's a great point about driving up rates. The thing I see that could be great is, you know, they mentioned ebay as one of the third party tools that they tested this with. And so if you are already marketing and advertising on some of these third party platforms, it's potentially another placement without having to go and run an entire new campaign. So that'll be interesting to see and I think like any, anything, you know, anytime there's a new placement or a new opportunity early on, that's sometimes the best opportunity or the best chance to, you know, see, see it, work and, and take advantage of that. So yeah, that's really cool. All right, awesome. Well, just a quick reminder that social media marketing world is coming up very soon, 30 days away, March 30th through April 1st. You can grab your ticket today at SocialMediaMarketing World. And Ali, thank you for all of these incredible updates and your insights. Where can we discover more about you?
Ali Bloyd
Yeah, well, absolutely. Like I said, always happy to be here. If you guys want to learn more, I've got a podcast called Marketing Inc. That's always great for deep dives and different topics. A YouTube channel found under Ali Bloyd is a good one. And then my website, alibloid.com if you guys want to chat or learn about anything else, you can hop over there.
Jerry Potter
All right. And if you want to add another podcast to your listening lineup, a couple more for you to check out. The Social Media Marketing Podcast as well as AI explored. Until next time, may you be wise with your marketing decisions. Thanks everyone.
Ali Bloyd
Bye bye.
Jerry Potter
The Social Media Marketing Talk show is.
Ali Bloyd
A Social Media examiner production.
Jerry Potter
For more social media Insight, visit social.
Unknown Speaker
Mediaexaminer.Com we're in the biggest shift in marketing history, with AI and social algorithms transforming everything. That's why Social Media Marketing World 2025 isn't just a conference. It's your complete marketing transformation. Whether you join us in San Diego or virtually, one breakthrough could change your entire career. Secure your spot today atsocial media marketingworld.in fox.
Host: Jerry Potter
Guest: Ali Bloyd, Host of the Marketing Inc. Podcast and Founder of Ali Bloyd Media
Release Date: March 3, 2025
In the latest episode of the Social Media Marketing Talk Show, host Jerry Potter welcomes Ali Bloyd to dissect Facebook’s recent updates that significantly impact marketers. The discussion spans crucial changes to Facebook Live videos, advancements in AI-driven advertising, privacy law implications, and updates to Facebook Marketplace. Below is a comprehensive summary of their insightful conversation.
Timestamp [00:52]:
Jerry Potter opens the discussion by highlighting Facebook’s announcement that Live videos will no longer be stored permanently. Instead, these videos will only remain available for 30 days post-broadcast.
Ali Bloyd elaborates on the implications of this update:
“Starting about a week ago, they rolled out the change that live videos are only going to be available for 30 days after, otherwise they're going to be deleted. So your older live videos that you've already posted for a long time will be deleted in waves.” [02:13]
Key Takeaways:
“You can convert longer live videos into clips and reels, which will remain visible on the platform.” [02:13]
Timestamp [07:24]:
The conversation shifts to Facebook’s decision to eliminate detailed audience targeting exclusions. This means marketers can no longer exclude specific interest groups (e.g., excluding cat enthusiasts when targeting dog lovers).
Ali Bloyd explains:
“They are removing detailed audience targeting exclusions... The only one that is going to remain is employers. So you will be able to exclude certain employers, but you're not going to be able to exclude other groups of people.” [07:24]
Implications:
“If the targeting works really well with the changes they made, people are going to be happy about it.” [09:05]
Timestamp [16:22]:
The duo delves into the latest Advantage Plus enhancements, highlighting both favorable and contentious updates.
Positive Changes:
“Plus shopping campaigns... are now classified under the Advantage Plus Sales campaign.” [13:20]
“They are adding something called Opportunity Score that's going to rank your campaigns on a scale of 0 to 100 based on Meta's recommendations.” [13:20]
Critical Insights:
“If your Opportunity Score is on the lower end, don't let that make you feel like it won't succeed.” [15:12]
“Advantage Plus Creative enhancements are not going to keep these on by default anymore... these options were hurting campaign performance.” [16:27]
Deprecation of AB Testing:
“They are depreciating the AB testing feature... but I encourage people to test things manually because it ends up being more successful anyway.” [19:26]
Overall Advice:
Ali emphasizes flexibility and adaptation, urging marketers to focus on solutions rather than dwelling on the removal of traditional tools:
“We just have to be flexible and go with the flow... focus on solutions, not problems.” [11:00]
Timestamp [19:58]:
With AI becoming integral to ad creation, Facebook is introducing transparency labels for AI-generated content. These labels will appear next to the sponsored tag on ads, indicating the use of AI in content creation.
Ali Bloyd’s Perspective:
“AI generated ads are going to have a transparency label. It will show up right next to the sponsored... I don't mind if there's a label that says AI generated, if it is AI generated for my ads or for anybody else's ads.” [20:25]
Key Points:
“How is that going to be labeled? Is it going to be labeled as AI or not?... They are just wanting to make sure that people are more transparent.” [21:57]
Timestamp [23:34]:
Addressing the impact of stringent European privacy laws, Ali discusses Facebook’s response through an update to the Facebook Marketplace Partner Program.
Ali Bloyd’s Insights:
“They are opening up the Facebook Marketplace partner program and they're going to have third party listing providers able to post ads on the platform.” [24:23]
Impact on Marketers:
“If you are already marketing and advertising on some of these third party platforms, it's potentially another placement without having to run an entire new campaign.” [25:32]
Strategic Considerations:
Throughout the episode, Jerry Potter and Ali Bloyd provide valuable insights into Facebook’s evolving landscape, emphasizing the necessity for marketers to stay adaptable. Whether it’s managing ephemeral Live videos, navigating AI-driven advertising changes, or leveraging new marketplace opportunities, the key takeaway is to embrace flexibility and continuously seek innovative solutions.
Ali concludes with a forward-looking statement, encouraging marketers to proactively engage with these changes:
“Whatever changes happen, we have to identify what the solution is... focus on solutions, not problems.” [11:00]
For further learning and updates, Ali directs listeners to her Marketing Inc. Podcast, YouTube channel, and website at alibloid.com.
Note: This summary omits promotional segments about upcoming conferences and other podcasts to focus solely on the content-driven discussion between Jerry and Ali.