Everything You Know About Debt Is Wrong - Dub Washington - David Shands

Summary

Social Proof Podcast Episode Summary

Episode Title: Everything You Know About Debt Is Wrong
Featuring: David Shands & Dub Washington (with Armani)
Air Date: June 29, 2026

---

Episode Overview

This episode of the Social Proof Podcast tackles the misconceptions and realities surrounding debt, featuring credit and real estate expert Dub Washington. David and Dub systematically break down the four types of debt, discuss personal experiences, and explore the difference between debt as a burden and debt as a tool. They also offer strategies for entrepreneurs and everyday people on changing financial habits, leveraging credit, and building generational wealth.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Four Types of Debt (01:52, 04:48)

• Dub Washington introduces the concept that “debt is neutral” and context and structure determine whether debt is good or bad (01:52).
• Four Types of Debt:
  • Survival Debt: Debt incurred to meet basic needs (food, shelter, utilities).
  • Lifestyle Debt: Debt used to upgrade one's standard of living beyond essentials.
  • Strategic Debt: Purposeful, planned debt to create opportunities (e.g., business, investments).
  • Leveraged Debt: Debt used to multiply resources for wealth building, common among billionaires.

Quote:
“Most people incorporate debt as being bad, but it's all based on how you do it. In my opinion, debt is neutral.”
– Dub Washington (01:52)

---

2. Survival Debt Explained (04:55–09:39)

• Survival debt is the most common: using debt to cover necessities when income is not enough (04:55).
• The pitfalls of resorting to credit cards in tough times, leading to snowballing balances and eventual default (08:16).
• Armani shares a personal story about using credit cards for bills during the pandemic, showing the stress and difficulty of escaping this cycle (08:16–09:39).
• A case study: Wells Fargo’s failed partnership with the Bilt Card, which allowed users to pay rent/mortgage with credit cards, leading to massive defaults due to economic hardships (05:18–06:47).

Quote:
“A temporary crisis that people result to. … The kids got to eat. If I have a $50,000 credit card and the business is not making any money and I don't have any savings, that's what I got the credit card for.”
– Dub Washington (09:39)

---

3. The Cycle of Living on Survival Debt (10:19–12:57)

• Survival debt is hard to break due to ingrained habits and generational poverty (11:09).
• Many people apply for funding “to survive,” not for investment or growth (12:08).
• Both hosts agree survival debt often keeps people stuck in a financial rut if not addressed with habit change and increased income.

Quote:
“If you don't have it this week, you're not going to have it next week … And we spend our lives trying to pay for things from last week and we don't have it today because we're in debt last week.”
– Dave (13:32)

---

4. Breaking Habits and Moving Beyond Survival (10:30–11:53)

• Changing financial habits is harder than changing health habits.
• People accustomed to “barely making it” struggle to level up.
• Dub: “I've been broke longer than I've had access to capital.” (11:13)

---

5. Lifestyle Debt: Danger of Escalating Wants (13:47–16:22)

• Lifestyle debt is termed potentially more dangerous because it is fueled by desire, not need.
• The allure of status symbols—cars, watches, penthouses—can quickly overwhelm finances, even for high earners.
• Dave’s mortgage/house-shopping story illustrates how higher income can lead to riskier spending without foresight (16:17–17:27).

Quote:
“You gotta man. … I'm like, why would we pay that amount whenever it's the same thing? We're not going to spend that much time in the hotel room anyway. I'm like, I like whenever we pull up and we don't have to touch doorknobs.”
– Dub Washington (20:57)

---

6. The Importance of Perspective and Mindset (22:05–23:09)

• Armani asks about shifting mindset from “scarcity” to “abundance”. Dub shares advice from a mentor: “Start conducting as if you’re already a multimillion dollar company.” (22:25)
• Acting with intention before wealth materializes can prompt better decisions and growth.

---

7. Emotional Spending vs. Logical Decisions (24:16–25:43)

• Emotional spending is distinguished from logical, calculated decisions. Most buying is emotional.
• Dave admits to unnecessary purchases (watches) as emotional decisions and highlights the importance of recognizing non-strategic acquisitions.

---

8. Strategic Debt: Using Debt to Build (25:55–30:50)

• Strategic debt is intentionally acquired for opportunities—“where the plant breaks ground and starts to grow” (26:16).
• Example: Dave uses business credit to fund Podcast Summit ads, keeping cash reserves and paying statements strategically (27:12).
• The need to understand the specific features and reporting of various business credit cards (29:06–30:07).

Quote:
“If you are making more profit than interest, the deal makes sense.”
– Dub Washington (28:19)

---

9. Leveraged Debt and Wealth Building (31:26–36:22)

• Leveraged debt is the highest and most powerful form: using borrowed capital to acquire cash-flowing assets (e.g., real estate).
• Dave considers leveraging debt for a new property, breaking down how rent can outpace loan payments (32:07).
• Dub discusses his Section 8 real estate strategy and the difference between cash flow and equity-focused investing (34:49–36:22).

Quote:
“You should be cash poor and credit heavy. You have more leverage with debt than you do with cash.”
– Dub Washington (34:14)

---

10. Understanding and Structuring Debt for Entrepreneurs (37:03)

• Dub outlines how his program helps people unlearn harmful debt habits, repair/build credit, and access high-limit credit, focusing on education and strategic action.

---

Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “Debt is neutral. It's the structure behind it.”
  – Dub Washington (01:52)

• “Name a billionaire that didn’t use debt to build their empire.”
  – Dub Washington (04:03)

• “You're going to pay 2.3x what you actually purchase or use it for.”
  – Dub Washington (10:12)

• “It's one of the hardest things in humanity is changing our habits... We'll change health habits way before we change financial habits.”
  – Dub Washington (10:30)

• “All buying is emotional.”
  – Marcus Y Roja, as quoted by Dub (24:16)

• “If you are making more profit than interest, the deal makes sense.”
  – Dub Washington (28:19)

• “You should be cash poor and credit heavy. You have more leverage with debt than you do with cash.”
  – Dub Washington (34:14)

---

Key Timestamps for Segments

• The Four Types of Debt Introduced: 01:52, 04:48
• Wells Fargo/Bilt Card Failure: 05:18–06:47
• Armani’s Survival Debt Story: 08:16–09:39
• Breaking the Survival Debt Cycle: 11:09–12:57
• Lifestyle Debt Dangers: 13:47–16:22
• Perspective/Mindset on Abundance: 22:25–23:09
• Strategic Debt Mechanics: 25:55–30:50
• Leveraged Debt and Wealth Building: 31:26–36:22
• Entrepreneur Debt Education/Community Plug: 37:03

---

Memorable Moments

• Dave’s Real-Estate Shopping Trap:
  Almost locked himself into major lifestyle debt by “house shopping” after his income grew, only to be saved by circumstances and his own planning for worst-case scenarios. (16:17–17:27)

• Dub’s Marriott Room Strategy:
  Explains booking hotels from “highest to lowest” for best experiences, while wife prefers practicality, illustrating lifestyle spending vs value. (20:57)

• Margin Loans as Leverage:
  Dub shares a pro tip: “If you have a brokerage account, you can borrow against your investments (margin loan) as a form of leverage.” (34:14)

---

Final Thoughts

This episode reframes debt for entrepreneurs and individuals, urging listeners to see debt as a tool when structured correctly. It emphasizes understanding types of debt, breaking unhealthy cycles, changing mindset, and embracing strategic and leveraged approaches for growth and wealth. The advice is honest, actionable, and rooted in real-world experience.

---

To connect or learn more:

• Find Dub Washington on all social media platforms
• Program details for repairing/building credit and obtaining high-limit cards are mentioned at the end (37:03)

---

This summary omits ads and non-content sections to focus on core educational value.

Transcript

[Dub Washington]

Paying for college doesn't have to be complicated. With earnest private student loans, there are no surprises, just low rates and zero fees.

[ZipRecruiter/FanDuel Advertiser]

Check your [e-mail] go loans made by finwise bank member FDIC and are subject to credit approval terms apply. Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure, you can post your job to some job board, but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along. Which is why you should try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com Zip ZipRecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you, it finds them for you. Its powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites them to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So while other companies might deliver a lot of hay, ZipRecruiter finds you what you're looking for. The needle in the Haystack. See why 4 out of 5 employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first first day. ZipRecruiter the smartest way to hire and right now you can try ZipRecruiter for free. That's right, free at ZipRecruiter.com Zip that's ZipRecruiter.com Zip ZipRecruiter.com Zip FanDuel is now

[FanDuel Representative]

live in Thrillberta and we're bringing you all your favorite thrills if you roll with casino. We're the exclusive home of Huff n Puff in Alberta along with all your favorite casino classics and more. If Sportsbook is your game, you'll flip over the all new wild cards and CFL same game parlays. Find your thrill on North America's number one casino and sports Alberta. Download FanDuel. Please play responsibly. Must be 18 plus and physically located in Alberta.

[ZipRecruiter/FanDuel Advertiser]

If gambling is affecting your mental health or well being 211 Alberta is here to help. Call or text 211 or visit AB211CA standard message or data rates may apply.

[Dub Washington]

There are four types of debt that most people misinterpret. Whenever we are talking about the overall

[Dave]

pool of debt, give me these four types of debt.

[Dub Washington]

We have survival debt, we have lifestyle debt, we have strategic debt and then we have leveraged debt. Most people incorporate debt as being bad, but it's all based on how you do it. In my opinion, debt is neutral. It's the structure behind it to determine whether you're going to get a negative input or a positive input behind it. If you have $5 million cash or a million dollars cash, and then you go and put that into an asset, hopefully not a liability. You no longer have any spending power, but credit is unlimited. Dave, I know you are not a fan of debt.

[Dave]

I'm not a big fan of debt these days.

[Dub Washington]

In debt.

[Dave]

The four, the four things you described, though, were very interesting though, because there's reasons that people use that. Like for instance, my man. What's my man's name? I forgot. I go to, like, Terrica. Right. Terrica is in debt, but she owns so much real estate for her to, like, pay it all off, she probably needed $100 million. So, you know, so I don't know. I don't know if it's that extreme. But she's. She's leveraging debt. Right? She makes a bunch of money by leveraging it. And the more she talks to me, the more I start to understand I'm not 100% there yet, but I understand the debt. And somebody like Donald Trump, who's up to his eyeballs in debt, but he got to become that billionaire status because he was there and he's, he's the type of person that will leverage the debt. The hotel doesn't do well. Closes, goes to bankruptcy.

[Shopify Advertiser]

Cool.

[Dave]

And do it again. So I understand there's something to this debt thing. So I'm trying to not be too hard on debt.

[Armani]

Yeah.

[Dub Washington]

It's. Is everything in life is perspective.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Armani]

And.

[Dub Washington]

And we know a lot of millionaires, right. But name a billionaire that didn't use debt to build the empire.

[Dave]

That's good.

[Dub Washington]

I don't think you can name one. So. And I think the common perception around, like, debt is like, you got to pay it back. Well, of course, you see what I'm saying, that's like with anything in life, like, you're going to pay for something. So I think it's just developing a different perspective pertaining to cash versus credit. Because people going to say credit is debt, whatever. If it's not your money, then let's just say that it's debt in this sense. But if you have $5 million cash or a million dollars cash, and then you go and put that into an asset, hopefully not a liability. You no longer have any spending power. But credit is unlimited.

[Dave]

I like that. So give me these four types of debt. We'll order four types of debt that we just described.

[Dub Washington]

We have survival debt, we have lifestyle debt, we have strategic debt, and then we have leveraged debt.

[Dave]

Got it. Survival debt. Let's. Let's talk about that.

[Dub Washington]

That's where most people are at. We are going to get debt to

[Armani]

fund

[Dub Washington]

how to eat what we're going to pay for that. We need autos, mortgages, a multitude of things.

[Dave]

And while we use debt to survive,

[Dub Washington]

we use debt to survive. But while we here. Why do you think that Bill ended the partnership with Wells Fargo? Wells Fargo made a major bet on that built card. And for all of my real estate investors, you know, that you could actually use a credit card that had an account number and routing number attached to it. And then people were going to use this credit card to pay their mortgage. And then they. Wells Fargo, because they was in partnership with Bill, had the highest default that they have ever had due to this one individual product. So they seen the opportunity and it didn't go the way that they thought it was. So in their eyes, it was strategic debt. We're going to take on this partnership and then we're going to allow consumers to pay their bill with this credit card. But what happened was people was like, oh, I don't lose my house, but I can default on this credit card and I can get the credit card removed from my credit, but I still make my mortgage payment up to my, let's just say my limit on the Bill card. So they had, they ended that partnership because it was like they lost billions with a. Wow.

[Dave]

Yeah. I never even heard about. I didn't know what a built card was. What was the purpose of the built card? I don't understand.

[Dub Washington]

So you could pay rent with your credit card. So if you get Approved for a $30,000 card, you could then connect your mortgage payments or your rent to come out directly and use the bill card to do it. And they didn't charge you an extra cash advance fee. Oh, you still can. But they partner. I forget the bank that they partner with, but yeah, I wonder why the

[Dave]

defaults are so high, though.

[Dub Washington]

Because the economy got harder and people were once again survival debt. They would say, hey, I'm going to put this on a credit card and then I'll just pay it off by the time the next one roll around. And then so many different things come up in between time. And then once you get one month behind on your mortgage, especially if you barely can make it, you in trouble.

[Dave]

Oh, that's a fact. So before we talk about survival debt, I want to go on to the second one, which is lifestyle debt, which is even more dangerous, because a lot of people, it's not. I mean, it's all dangerous. But this is the, the people who Use credit to just furnish a lifestyle. Maybe you got a good job, maybe you got some money coming in so you can pay it off, but you're using credit and not pay it off,

[Dub Washington]

but pay the minimum.

[Dave]

The minimum. Which is dangerous.

[Dub Washington]

Very dangerous. That's where most people are at, though.

[Dave]

Yeah, Yeah. I want to furnish my house, make it look nice. It's not survival stuff, but I'm. I'm buying toys to enjoy this lifestyle. I go out to eat and I just use a credit card. Armani Survival. Have you been more familiar with or had a closer relationship with survival debt or lifestyle debt?

[Armani]

I would say those cards that I defaulted on in the past were survival. It was the pandemic. Like, I have more decent credit. I remember, I think quicksilver, like, I didn't ask for a certain limit. I just applied. I got approved because I already had a secure card. They said like 2000. I was like, well, at that time, I only got a couple days left to pay my phone bill. We hungry. Light bill is next week. I don't know what I was about to do. So it's kind of like that started to be like. And then it's like, oh, you know, I'll eventually get paid and pay some more. And then what starts to get you is you start doing the minimum, like they tell you, because that's what's going to be on all the emails. Minimum $25. Minimum $25. All this. And then another month goes by and it's okay, it's 100. Then it's kind of like. I think at one point they wanted like 200amonth. And at the time I. That's my whole car note. So then starts to be late and then it starts to just roll over. Because then once you kind of get like, it's a little too much. That's when they got you. Because if you can't pay that, you only pay a hundred. Next month is like two something, something. And then they start messing you, okay, you're about to close. And then it's kind of like a. I mean, it's like, I don't necessarily regret it because now I'm in a different spot where like, I used the card, I paid it off, it has a purpose. But in that time it was kind of like, I don't know, they just have you. What I was about to do, like, I gotta, like, I think my phone bill was on it for some years and you kind of just pay that. But yeah, it can get scary.

[Dub Washington]

A temporary crisis that people Result to. And listen, I know many people sometimes may have to revert to this like let's just say particular type of debt because like the kids got to eat.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Dub Washington]

If I have a $50,000 credit card and the business is not making any money and I don't have any savings, that's what I got the credit card for.

[Dave]

Yeah, for sure. You got to get to work. So you need gas. What's going to use that credit card?

[Dub Washington]

You have to.

[Dave]

Dang. But it's, it's, it's definitely going to bite you in the butt later.

[Dub Washington]

You're going to pay 2.3x what you actually purchase or use it for.

[Dave]

And then we start talking about survival. I think the only fix is to make more. Well one is to make more money. But two, got to change your habits too, right?

[Dub Washington]

Oh, for sure. Like, but, but imagine humans changing habits. That's one of the hardest things. That's a fact to do ever in humanity is like changing our habits. And then you go to financial habits. We'll change health habits way before we change financial habits.

[Dave]

Why is it so difficult, bro, to change out? Well, yeah. Why is it so difficult to change our financial habits, Especially when we know it's hurting us?

[Dub Washington]

But I think most of us come from a place, Dave, to where my grandma used to tell me this all the time. You can't miss nothing you ain't never had. If we're accustomed to living a certain lifestyle and we just accustomed to barely making it. I say it all the time. I've been broke longer than I've had access to capital.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Dub Washington]

I mean, you know, I don't want to block none of my blessings, but if I had to go back to eat and hamburger help a lasagna, I mean that's what we got to do.

[Dave]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dub Washington]

My stomach going to be messed up until it get. Get back acclimated with it. But I mean we, we accustomed or we've been used to barely making it so long. This don't seem like a big deal to most of us.

[Dave]

Yeah. You get a lot of people funding. What percentage of people. And you can kind of feel it maybe that they are getting the funding or even applying for the funding to survive.

[Dub Washington]

Man. Probably they come in saying all of the right things, of course. But I can kind of sense based on like their response when I'm talking to them. I would probably say let's just do like 30% 1 out of 3 survival. I need it. Cause I'm like, listen, we can get you access to 150,000. Once we structured a profile. Let's wait six months, let's go and build these relationships with the banks. And I need it next week. What you need it for an investment. Like what do you need it for that you can't wait. I need it though. They don't give me a reason. That's when I'm like,

[Dave]

I mean, you still have an obligation to give them the funding to go get it somewhere else.

[Dub Washington]

That's true.

[Dave]

And maybe the person they get it from isn't at least going to educate them in a way, you know, I mean, that's tough because there's. That's the cycle. Because you can't get out. You can't get out of that. You know, I mean, you're surviving. So you need some money. He said it says something in that movie. What was that movie with Kiki Palmer and Sza? Was that movie one of them days? So it was a part in there where they go into the buy hair. Not buyer pay here it was the auto loan. Yeah, like a payday loan. Yeah. So Katt Williams, he is a character in there, he said something funny. He said, if you don't have it this week, you're not going to have it next week. And that's real. And we spent our lives trying to pay for things from last week and we don't have it today because we're in debt last week. But we need some more money now to take care of now. And then next week comes and we're not going to have the money. And then the juice starts to roll and eventually we are in such a deep hole we cannot get out.

[Dub Washington]

You're struggling with access to capital and that's one of the things that we do in the reinvented credit masteries. We teach you how to structure your profile, build your profile and then going to the correct institution. Because bank auditing is the process of knowing which strategic strategy to obtain funding the best is going to suit you. Most people go for business lines of credit without starting at business credit cards or personal lines of credit before starting with personal credit cards. But you don't know what you don't know. So what I have curated is a list of modules to take you from no credit at all, repairing it and rebuilding it, to getting anywhere else of your first hundred to 150,000 in funding. The link will be in the description and I know you're joining the episode and let's eat. Yeah, it happens that way. And as we move up the ladder, and I would say that is it's still better than survival because you don't need the debt to survive. Now we get to lifestyle.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Dub Washington]

Which depending on the conversation it could be more dangerous because you don't necessarily need it to live. But then you elevate your lifestyle due to access to capital. I can't tell you the amount of people that I have got access to capital. Next week they got the ap.

[Dave]

You're like bro, like hold up, come on now. Come on bro.

[Dub Washington]

You, you went and you, you got a, I don't even have one of them. You got the ap, they got the cars, they got the penthouse, they have all of these things. So now you don't realize how much this is going to cost you.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Dub Washington]

So it's the lifestyle trap.

[Dave]

Here's the challenge though, for the people that like get lifestyle debt. It's almost, we're in the space at the moment where I can pay for it. You might bro, you might look at a, a Lambo and I don't know how much is a Lambo?

[Dub Washington]

Like two. Two some I want to say like

[Dave]

how much is a cardinal on a Lambo? Three.

[Dub Washington]

Three to 4,000.

[Dave]

I'm making $50,000 a month. I could pay 4,000, no problem.

[Dub Washington]

Yeah.

[Dave]

The problem is as you start accumulating all this debt that you can pay for one day you might not be able to pay for it. Business gets slow. There's hills and valleys. But I, for me, when I get into debt, like I'll buy a house or I'll buy a car, you know, I have car, house, stuff like that. I plan for worst case scenario. And I, I don't buy based off of where I'm at right now. I buy stuff based on where I could be if God take all the stuff away. Worst I tell everybody, bro, my, my mortgage, my mortgage comes out like $2,200 a month. That's better than apartment. Okay, you pay about that. My mortgage, 2200. Worst case scenario, I, I'm, I could doordash.

[Armani]

Yeah. Like with the fees and everything, mine comes about 2000 like 80 some dollars. So that's crazy that like a house is around what a one bedroom apartment is.

[Dave]

Here's what's crazy. So we bought our house for about $250,000 in2019. The mortgage started out at like $1700. With inflation, taxes kept going up and we just did a homestead exemption too. I don't know what that means but I do know our mortgage is going to be lower because it's like taking care of the Taxes. But it. I was at 1750 a few years ago and it just got up to 2200. Now when I got that mortgage, I said, oh, 1750, if I listen, I can go knock on doors and sell basketball cards and make fifteen hundred dollars and my home, my family will have a roof to live, to live under. But I almost got caught in the trap because after 2019, I started making more money. 20, 20, 2021, 2022, started making more money. And guess what? Me and my wife started doing house shopping. House shopping for sure. By God's grace, it didn't work out because we was going to get another house for sure. But I started building out this. And this is where all my money was going. I was like, I ain't got the money to do this building and the household. Let's just wait on the house and we'll get something later. Oh my gosh. I would be right now at like a $4,000 at least, at least if I wasn't being guided spiritually. For real. For real. But. Because that's why. But I understand the lifestyle debt because it's based on where we're at right now. I'm making enough money to pay for it, but that's.

[Dub Washington]

You gotta man. Me and my wife had this conversation the other day and she gonna kill me for saying this, but I said, I don't like the comments that we make about our people. As far as she say, we wear and look how rich we are. And I say, I understand to a certain extent what you're saying, but to some people who've never had anything, I'm under the perception that you have to get certain vices out of your. You have to. Because if you wait too long, you. You may not never experience. And some people don't want to experience the lavish things. But for me, whenever look, I noticed

[Shopify Advertiser]

somebody listening right now that's been saying, one day I'm going to start my business. And the truth is, most people don't have an idea problem. They have a starting problem. And that's why I like Shopify. They already have everything set up for you from day one. So you can stop overthinking and actually start selling. And one thing I really like is the checkout experience. When somebody is finally ready to buy from you. Shopify checkout helps more people actually complete their purchase. Then when they come back, their information is already saved. So buying again is incredibly simple. Now here's the part entrepreneurs don't think about enough. Every hour you're trying to figure out Websites and payments and all the technical stuff is an hour. You're not creating content, finding customers or making sales. So Shopify handles that foundation so you could spend your time growing the business instead of building the infrastructure. And that's why millions of businesses, from brands you already know to people launching their very first companies, trust Shopify to power their business. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business. So go make it a real business right now. Start your free [e-mail] social media. That's shopify.com social again that shopify.com social.

[Dub Washington]

We go to hotels primarily and of course, you know, everything I get is strategic. But I'm shopping from highest to lowest. We're trying to find something to go highest to lowest with Marriott, of course, you know, I know, you know, I got family that works there, but I always want best experience and then I work my way down. My wife is the complete opposite. I mean, she don't want no roach motel, but she like, wait, like why would we pay that amount whenever it's the same thing? We're not going to spend that much time in the hotel room anyway. I'm like, I like whenever we pull up and we don't have to touch doorknobs. Yeah. You see what I'm small things. So the lifestyle part, as long as you are not over exerting yourself into the consumption of it, yeah, I think you're gonna be okay. But you need to experience certain things. You, you have to, Dave, you cannot be financially frugal to where you just sit on your hands and you say I'm going to eat beef hamburgers every day. I don't, I don't want to go and spend money at this fancy restaurant. You can't live life like that because you, you are shortchanging yourself of an abundant life that was meant for you.

[Dave]

Yeah, yeah. Not for some money.

[Armani]

I would say how would someone go from the I'm just going to eat beef hamburgers mentality to kind of what you just said about like not touching door or storage. I'll never search high to low. So how is, what would you advice would you give for someone trying to get from that different mindset? Not saying make more money right away, but just, you know, the mindset matters.

[Dub Washington]

It's how you see yourself. Because if my one of my first mentors told me said, duh, you got so much talent, but you don't carry yourself as if you are already a multi million dollar brand. He said, what I need you to do is Start conducting as if you running a multi million dollar company. And it literally changed the way that I seen myself. Not how I went and spent money, but just how I treated myself in the form of places that I go to, how I present myself, how I communicate. It's a multitude of different things of how you can literally become rich in your mind way before you're rich in your bank account. And it's just you don't really got to spend money for certain things.

[Dave]

Yeah. I think even to Armani's question, some people need to eat hamburgers and noodles right now because you may be in such a bad situation. The lifestyle. The lifestyle debt is really dangerous because the people who are in that type of debt have money right now. So it's the people that in a situation, they're like, yo, I'm gonna go get an expense. I'm gonna do an expensive trip because I have the money, but I put it on a credit card. I. It's. It's too often, you know what I mean? You're spending the money too often, not even spending the money, but you're going into debt too often because of a season right now. You know what I mean? And you should, like, plan it. When you have money, you make really emotional decisions and you don't think. You see, I have it. I got this type of money coming in. And when you're up, bro, the decision is like, yo, I'll just do it. I'll take care of it, no problem. But we can't see past today. We need to see the future, bro.

[Dub Washington]

That's good. Shout out to my. One of my mentors, Marcus y Roja. He say all buying is emotional. But he said, dub, your problem is you're too logical. You're telling that they have a problem and it's logical that they have the problem. But people don't want to hear that. They are buying based off of emotions. And it goes right into. What you said is like, we see the money, we have the money. And it's like, bro, I gotta get this or that.

[Dave]

What I need to do, bro, I need to sell some of the stuff that I have, I should sell. If you have a. A watch. I have a watch that I don't.

[Shopify Advertiser]

I have.

[Dave]

Like, I'm embarrassed. I probably got like two watches that I don't even wear. I need to just sell them, bro, because they're just sitting there. Even if I. Even if I take a loss on them, I just need to get them away from me, bro, because it just represents a bad Decision because the. The jeweler just call and say, yo, we got this new watch. I'm like, I'm gonna come get it. It was emotional and it was dumb, but I always wanted, you know, I wanted a Rolex, bro. Let me just get the Rolex. And I have this one. I would never sell this one because. Let me not say never, because you never know what's planned for the future. I like this joint, bro. I'm. I'm holding on to this, but I got some stuff in my crib, bro. I just. I spent way too much money on. But the good news is I didn't go into debt to buy it.

[ZipRecruiter/FanDuel Advertiser]

That's good.

[Dave]

You know what I mean? So for the people that are going into the debt because they don't have the money right now, that's where it gets bad.

[Dub Washington]

Yeah.

[Dave]

I'm saying, so the next debt was.

[Dub Washington]

The next one was strategic debt. And that is where you not in survival, you're not in lifestyle. Now you look at debt differently. Where you can say, hmm, if I can go and get access to 50, 100, I plan to do this with that.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Dub Washington]

And that's where the. I would say where the plant breaks ground and starts to grow, because everything else is underground. You're like, oh, man, I'm trying to get it. But then this is the moment that it starts to get a little bit of sunlight and you start to grow from there. I think that's where I would say 80 to 90% of the people are at. What you think, Dave?

[Dave]

Yeah, well, I wouldn't say 80. I say it becomes. The numbers become a lot smaller who are intentionally making a decision to go into strategic debt saying, I'm going to buy this house and I'm going to fix it up. So I'm going to go into debt to get the money to fix it up, because I'm going to sell it, and I only have this debt for a period of time, and then I'll pay it off and I have my. My extra money or I'm paying. So right now I'm going into strategic debt with Podcast Summit. So I went. Got a. I set up a company for Podcast Summit and I got a credit card for that particular company. I'm using that credit card to run ads. So I'm strategically using this debt. I'm going into debt holding onto my cash, using the card to pay. I'm going to pay. I typically pay my cards off, but in this scenario, like last month, I paid the whole statement balance, so there's no interest But I don't see anything wrong with. If I'm going to have, I don't know, $600 in interest, I can use that. I can pay that $600 and still keep the juice flowing so that I can strategically use the debt. Because after the event, I should be in profit mode. I could pay that stuff off that, that. I think very few people see it that way.

[Dub Washington]

Yeah. And also, like, we ought to understand the industry that we're in. Some people don't like interest at all.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Dub Washington]

But this is my take on it. If you're making more profit than interest, the deal makes sense.

[Dave]

Yes.

[Dub Washington]

If you are paying, let's just say something outrageously high, which is 40% APR. Right. If you can get a loan for 40% APR, which is very much predatory, I got to say that. But if you can make 65% on your capital, you just made a 25% ROI and you built with the institution. So you're not going. Most people are not going to be in a position where you can say, well, I only like 0% capital. Like my, I'm. I'm in that position to where, like, if it's going to cost me money or interest, I don't really want to do it because we built our credit and we understand banking on another level. So I'll go and get a 0% business credit card that does not report to the SBFE. And I know that I could truly use this and no bank can see it.

[Dave]

AMEX don't really do zero percent like that. Huh.

[Dub Washington]

They only have two cards. So, man, this is, this is getting into a whole different thing. But I want to drop this gym on people. We got to know whenever we're going for certain business credit cards, which business credit cards are going to report to the business credit bureaus? These are called like what they call ghost cards. We can use it and max them out. And then you're not. It's not reflected. American Express only reports negative activity. So certain banks will report utilization, your balance, and then other ones will report only negative activity. But on American Express side, they only have 2 0% business credit cards. And we talked about this on the earlier episode is like the psychology of lending. Those 2 0% interest credit cards, the average limit that you're going to get on it is 5,000.

[Dave]

I see.

[Dub Washington]

But the credit cards, such as the Amazon, such as the Delta, they'll give you 30 and 40,000.

[FanDuel Representative]

Why?

[Dub Washington]

Because they trap you into the interest. Trap.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Dub Washington]

So you got to know how to apply. Most people don't understand that they don't know how to apply for credit cards with each individual institution. So that falls into the strategic debt. Like if I'm going to go to American Express, I'm going to know to get a co branded credit card and then get a 0% interest credit card and then move the limit over from the co branded to the 0% and then I'm still getting the same amount of money, but it's free money.

[Dave]

Got it. All right, that makes sense. That makes sense. And real quick, just so I'm clear, zero percent interest. If I put $30,000 on a zero percent interest card, the minimum payment due comes off the balance. It's not interest.

[Dub Washington]

Correct. And there's only going to be 1%. So if you have a $30,000 balance, that minimum payment, because no interest is attached to, is going to be $300. So what you do is you say, hey, $30,000 credit card, I want to make the minimum balance for 12 months to where I don't have to worry about it. We're going to put $3,600 into a checking account and it's going to draw from that checking account. And then, you know, on month 13, if you want to avoid interest to close to pay off the remaining balance, which would be about 26,000 or something like that.

[Dave]

Got it, Got it. Okay. Okay. Now that's fire, bro.

[Dub Washington]

Actually servicing the debt.

[Dave]

Yeah, I like that. So if you use him debt to survive, I understand if you're using debt to fund your lifestyle, you're a clown. If you're using debt strategically, you're smart. And if you're using debt, the fourth stage as leverage, you're only way to be in a billionaire for sure. I understand that. Like we were talking about Terrica earlier, she has millions of dollars in debt, right. But she leverages it for the asset that spits off income. Where I'm, I'm constantly. This isn't like a strategic play or I'm using debt. This is, I got this debt specifically to produce this income, which makes sense. So I was talking to you about this other property that I'm looking at getting. And it's not even, it's not, it's. It's inexpensive, not expensive, but they want like 125, 125, 000. And I'm thinking like, dang, I could just, I'll probably have to put down 30, 25, 30%. But if I have this other building and as a studio, it will produce more money than the debt that I have. On it. So if my note is $600 on, I don't know, 90 something thousand, then even if I subdivided it into like two other studios, even with me not operating it, where, let's just say I can charge 1200 for this side, $1200 for that side, I'll make 2,400. Only 600 plus my ho would be like $200. So 800 going out, 2400 coming in. I'm leveraging the debt for sure. That's how billionaires operate, right?

[Dub Washington]

Absolutely. Well, I'm not a billionaire, so I assume that's how they are. We gotta, we gotta, we got a couple more zeros.

[Dave]

Yeah, for sure. How do you leverage debt? Are you at that point where you're leveraging debt right now?

[Armani]

For sure.

[Dub Washington]

So I, I leverage debt multiple ways. One of the ways I do it is like I say, building multiple banking relationships. But the primary one is for me, Section 8 real estate, like that's my industry that I branched out from, from coaching. But you also could leverage debt this way. This is another gym for the viewers that's watching. If you have what they call a brokerage account, you're investing into S and P or VO vix, multitude of things. Right. You know that you can borrow against your portfolio, also known as a margin loan. So for me, like I would say you should be cash poor and credit heavy.

[Dave]

Yeah.

[Dub Washington]

You have more leverage with debt than you do with cash. So those are the primary ones that I do outside of building banking relationships. Section 8 Real estate, crypto, a little bit. But I learned my lesson with these stock options. I'm done with that. So I just put it into the long term brokerage account and just let it build that way. But commercial real estate is coming soon. Yeah, it's just time to grow. But as far as, for me, like, those are my arenas. I'm not gonna say that I'll do this, this, this, this, this. But coaching and section eight real estate, that's my two.

[Dave]

Section eight, I mean, that's commercial.

[Dub Washington]

No, no.

[Dave]

Well, it depends on how many units.

[Dub Washington]

Right, right, right. Yeah.

[Dave]

Got you. Okay. Okay. So, okay, what is the highest number of units? Or do you just buy single families?

[Dub Washington]

So me, this is my strategy and it's going to be different. I'm in the Georgia market. I know the real estate people can like though, why you do this? So I got to explain the background. Me and my wife do not have time to go back and forth with contractors and fixing this. 250 to 260 is my ceiling. We do a specific zip code, 30331 and then we know the payout for that section a chart is going to be up to 2850 if we can get it at around 1600amonth. We're now once again cash flow and it's going to vary. Sometimes you may not get to 2850 if you don't have all of the different type of stoves and you know, energy saver things. So the lowest that you're going to get is 2050. So if I can get 4 to 500 profit per unit. I'm an equity investor, not cash flow. I got three boys so I know the government is paying for them to have an asset in 30 years or less. So for me, and I know everybody like dude, that's too much. The numbers don't make sense. For me, I'm an equity investor. I want to leave something to the boys. Got three boys, we need three properties and then if they give me two, $300 a month, that's cool. But they got the equity, they're going to have something that they can tangibly touch whenever they of an age.

[Dave]

I love it man. This is good bro. We've got some good money questions. Did I actually lead these conversation? I'll be really thinking deeply like okay, how can I be more strategic with my debt? How could I leverage that or you know, even creating more content around helping other people who are strategically or not strategically but who are surviving. And I, I feel even like a slight responsibility to come up with answers for these people like what do we do right now? And create a little formula for them. But now this was good bro. If this helps you in any way, please send a DM Dub Washington on Instagram and let everybody know how they could be a part of your community and then close this out at Dub

[Dub Washington]

Washington on all social media platforms. What we do is we help you structure your profile, repair the profile and then position you to get access to high limit credit cards, high limit business lines of credit or personal lines of credit. But the number one thing that's stopping you from is that you don't understand debt. You don't understand how the banks like to lend. So we take a different approach as to unlearning and relearning how the banking sector works. So once again, AI prompts, we teach you how to, you know, repair your credit, we give you the letters and then we graduate into structuring your funding sequences. So for less than what, a hundred dollars a month, you spend more on Starbucks than that so you can learn how to change the trajectory of your financial future.

[Dave]

There we go. Listen, y'. All click the link below, be a part of the community, and we'll see you next Friday. Peace. Peace.

[Shopify Advertiser]

Look, I know there's somebody listening right now that's been saying, one day I'm going to start my business. And the truth is, most people don't have an idea problem. They have a starting problem. And that's why I like Shopify. They already have everything set up for you from day one, so you can stop overthinking and actually start selling. And one thing I really like is the checkout experience. When somebody is finally ready to buy from you. Shopify checkout helps more people actually complete their purchase. Then when they come back, their information is already saved. So buying again is incredibly simple. Now, here's the part entrepreneurs don't think about enough. Every hour you're trying to figure out websites and payments and all the technical stuff is an hour you're not creating content, finding customers, or making sales. So Shopify handles that foundation so you could spend your time growing the business instead of building the infrastructure. And that's why millions of businesses, from brands you already know to people launching their very first companies, trust Shopify to power their business. With Shopify, nothing stands between your idea and a real business. So go make it a real business right now. Start your free [e-mail] social. That's shopify.com social. Again, that's shopify.com social.