Soder Podcast Episode 117: "The Enabler" with Kathleen Madigan

Date: January 20, 2026
Host: Dan Soder
Guest: Kathleen Madigan

Overview

Comedian Dan Soder sits down with stand-up legend Kathleen Madigan for a lively and honest discussion about comedy's changing culture, the evolution of gambling in America, addictive behaviors, and how their upbringings shaped their attitudes toward risk, vice, and control. The conversation is filled with personal stories, sharp observations, and playful back-and-forths as they debate the perils and pleasures of modern convenience in everything from online gambling to legalized weed.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Height, Invisibility, and Navigating Public Spaces

• Kathleen jokes about her height (5’1”) and how it renders her nearly invisible, especially in crowded places like airports.
  • 00:34 Kathleen Madigan: "I prefer [being short] because you fit everywhere... Tall people do not see me."
• Both riff on the "hiding in plain sight" effect, likening it to Clark Kent’s glasses:
  • 02:32 Dan Soder: "So I guess glasses do fool people."

2. Comedy Life & Avoiding Sitcoms

• Kathleen shares her aversion to performing in sitcoms despite being offered roles. She finds the process slow and unfulfilling compared to stand-up.
  • 07:12 Kathleen Madigan: "They offered me some sitcom thing... I still don't want to be in a sitcom. Nothing's changed from two days ago."
• Both commiserate over the painfully slow pace of TV production.
  • 10:07 Kathleen Madigan: "This is one episode of the Big Bang Theory, and we have been here for seven hours."

3. Comedy Origins and the St. Louis Scene

• Both reflect on the overlooked influence of St. Louis as a comedy breeding ground, mentioning Cedric, Lavell Crawford, Red Foxx, and more.
  • 12:01 Kathleen Madigan: "A lot of Black people [came up in St. Louis]. Everybody overlooks all that."
• Kathleen recounts a hilarious open mic moment:
  • 14:09 Kathleen Madigan: "This one guy comes out, takes a look around, he goes, ‘Nope’, and he left. That might be the greatest open mic."

4. Drinking, Bars, and The "Good Old Days"

• Tales of favorite bars, dive bar culture, and the feeling of "secret day drinking."
  • 05:26 Kathleen Madigan: "[Larry Miller] used to do a joke that it’s God’s flashlight. For the drunk."

5. Gambling: From Back Rooms to Phones

• Nostalgia for gambling’s social, community-based past vs. the instant gratification of modern apps.
  • 44:00 Dan Soder: "If you’re gonna gamble, it should be social. I don’t think it should be on your phone where you can lock it away..."
• Kathleen delights in teaching others to gamble and laments having to repeat basics:
  • 45:09 Kathleen Madigan: "Do you know how many people I've taught to play craps? ...Here's how you play video poker. You should play double double bonus poker..."

6. Sports Gambling Explosion: Benefits, Dangers, and Cultural Shifts

• Soder expresses deep concerns about the impact of legalized online sports betting, especially on young people.
  • 34:18 Dan Soder: "I think [sports gambling apps] are gonna be worse to Americans than the opioid crisis. I think it's gonna ruin an entire generation."
• Madigan offers the traditional gambler’s perspective—it's fun, a game, a piece of culture, and makes boring games interesting.
  • 40:44 Kathleen Madigan: "If it's a game I truly care about, I do not bet on it. ...It makes me interested in games I would not normally give a shit about. So does fantasy football."
• Soder pushes back, warning of systemic risks and hidden addictiveness, paralleling gambling apps to video games and referencing rising rates of secret gambling-related debt.
  • 43:07 Dan Soder: "I think you get that times a million with these apps because...you link your bank account. Now they do these things where they have all these commercials. Most comics I know are sponsored by a gambling app."
• Kathleen points out the differences in generational attitudes and culture, emphasizing the learning curve of "old-school" gambling.
  • 55:24 Kathleen Madigan: "Gambling used to be, 'Hey, my uncle runs numbers.' Oh, do you want to learn? It was a culture."

7. Corporate vs. Mob: The Lesser Evil?

• Soder offers a provocative comparison between the transparency of the mob’s consequences and the insidiousness of corporate America:
  • 76:00 Dan Soder: "I'll tell you the nefarious...I think the mob is better than corporate America. Nefarious to me is corporate America with a smile on them."

8. Vice, Risk, and the Loss of Subculture

• Both comedians long for the camaraderie and "earned" knowledge of vices, like getting good weed from a guy you know or gambling with a bookie, versus sterile, overly accessible app culture.
  • 58:21 Kathleen Madigan: "So you want a culture to come back."
  • 58:30 Dan Soder: "I want the risk. I want the risk. Okay, Bring the risk back."

9. The "Enabler" and Teaching Vice

• Madigan jokes about being the ultimate "enabler," loving teaching people about gambling and seeing traditional vice as a social skill, not a secret shame.
  • 44:51 Kathleen Madigan: "I wanna have a show after Intervention called The Enabler, where I teach you how to gamble."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Corporate-Gambling Advertising:
  43:32 Dan Soder: "I'm watching all my friends...reading it like they're blind. You pimp. You're just pimping your fans."
• On Generational Changes in Gambling:
  35:01 Dan Soder: "I think you're a different generation. ...You grew up remembering the fear of a loan shark, ...the fear of a bookie... That is not in their head now."
• On Enabling and Addiction:
  36:09 Dan Soder: "When they listed it, I did it for real one time I listed the amount of drinks I had. And the doctor was like, dude..."
• On the Illusion of Control:
  07:40 Kathleen Madigan: "I am not a control freak. It's when I'm with people who seemingly have zero control, then I get irritated."
• On the Future of American Vice:
  72:57 Dan Soder: "I've heard rumors that people are joining ICE because of gambling debt...and it pays off their gambling debt immediately."
• On Gambling’s Cultural Shift:
  55:24 Kathleen Madigan: "It was a culture. That's exactly what it is. ...It feels like the culture in the United States is all turned into something marketable and flimsy...It's not to do it anymore."
• On Poser Culture and Stand-up’s Social Media Surge:
  53:49 Dan Soder: "...You can just be a poser now. You can just go like, I'm a standup comedian, and put clips of you doing standup. But you've never done it."
• On Navigating Vices and Advice for Young Listeners:
  72:08 Dan Soder: "I feel like the scientist that no one listens to in the beginning of the movie. ...That volcano's gonna erupt. And everyone goes, 'Shut up old man. This is the best beach resort in all of the world.'"

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:34–03:42: Stories about being short and invisible in public, airport navigation, glasses as a disguise
• 07:00–10:13: Kathleen on turning down sitcoms and the tedium of TV production
• 12:01–14:11: The St. Louis comedy scene and the roots of neglected comedy influence
• 24:00–25:56: State liquor laws, blue laws, and culture around drinking in different regions
• 34:00–36:43: Soder’s fears about online sports betting and generational attitudes toward vice
• 40:44–42:12: The difference between betting for fun and addiction, fantasy football saving NFL
• 43:07–44:49: Secrecy of gambling debts and rise of gambling app commercials
• 44:51–47:10: Madigan's pride in being a gambling enabler, the lost art of teaching casino games
• 55:24–56:05: Loss of gambling’s subculture through commodification and technology
• 58:21–58:41: Longing for the risk, edge, and social aspect of vice
• 72:08–72:42: Soder as the Cassandra of gambling apps—predicting fallout and calamity
• 75:36–76:25: Comic reflection on the fine line between "character" and "nefarious"
• 77:29–78:39: Madigan’s love for casino culture and her almost-career as a pit boss/jockey

Tone and Dynamics

• Conversational, playful, and reflective, with Madigan serving irreverent, matter-of-fact humor and Soder bringing anxious, thoughtful skepticism about current culture.
• Both comedians share a clear affection and respect for earned knowledge and subculture, even as they disagree over the dangers of making vice too accessible.

Wrap-Up

This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the real-life culture of comedy, old-school gambling stories, and the anxious tug-of-war between tradition and modern convenience. Madigan and Soder's banter is rich with personal experience, generational insight, and a lot of heart—plus a few warnings for young listeners looking to flirt with risk.

Closing Bet

• The episode ends with Soder and Madigan making an old-fashioned bet on a football game, eschewing online apps for a mailed $20 wager—a full-circle nod to the culture they both know and miss.
  • 81:19 Kathleen Madigan: "20 bucks."
  • 81:23 Dan Soder: "Just money line."
  • 81:25 Kathleen Madigan: "Just pick and pull."
  • 81:26 Dan Soder: "Let's go."