Soder Podcast – Episode 62: "Arrested Development" with Mike Cannon

Date: December 31, 2024
Host: Dan Soder
Guest: Mike Cannon

Episode Overview

This episode is a loose, freewheeling, and deeply honest conversation between comics Dan Soder and Mike Cannon. Circling around the theme of "arrested development"—emotional, social, and generational—the duo riff through topics like problematic childhood movies, family trauma, growing up, relationships, the challenges of adulthood, and the lasting impact of comedy and celebrity idolization. There’s a strong undercurrent of nostalgia and reflection on what it means to mature as men while remaining, in some ways, permanent adolescents.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Old Cartoons, Disney, and Problematic History

• Starts with banter about nuclear apocalypse anxieties ([00:28]) and quickly veers into a discussion on the racist depictions in old Disney movies, especially the crows in "Dumbo" ([01:07]–[02:28]).
  • Quote:
    “Dumbo’s got everything—fat shaming, ear shaming, Black crows...” – Dan Soder ([02:28])
• They talk about how their generations didn’t pick up on these issues, only later realizing the subtext.
  • Memorable moment: The crows’ names in "Dumbo" were openly racist: "Dandy," "Jim Crow," etc.

2. Looking Like Famous People

• Joking comparisons between famous people who look alike: Troy Aikman and Jay-Z ([04:01]–[05:16]), Osama bin Laden and Mike Cannon ([03:34]–[04:20]).
• Cannon shares being called the "crows" by his dad, and then about the specific facial structure comments people make.

3. Comedy, Self-Image, and Growing Up With Your Partner

• Cannon describes growing up with his wife, knowing her since childhood, and why that's special ([07:14]–[09:12]).
  • Quote:
    “You genuinely grew up with your wife. Your wife knows you better than anybody.” – Dan Soder ([08:10])
• Stories about parental interference and mistaking high-school intentions; resisting being a “bad influence” ([09:49]–[10:18]).
• Reflects on how their long history together shaped their trust and their family.

4. Parental Trauma, Divorce, and Family Dynamics

• Both comics share stories of growing up with divorced parents and the challenges of living in tension-filled households ([12:42]–[14:13]).
  • Soder describes preferring parents splitting up early to “faking it” for the kids ([13:12]–[13:57]).
  • Vivid stories about “mom gets out of the car in traffic” and the absurdity kids normalize in dysfunction.

5. College, Money Troubles, and Broken Dreams

• Cannon recounts the collapse of his dad’s finances in the 2008 recession, and how it changed his and his siblings’ college plans ([14:41]–[15:32]).
  • Nostalgia for lost college dreams; Soder shares similar sports school aspirations ([16:58]–[18:02]).
  • Soder on the realization most athletes are “dorks”—they’re nerdy about their sport ([18:04]–[18:44]).

6. On Athlete and Comedian Mindsets: Genius vs. Psychopaths

• Discussion of why some elite athletes (Tom Brady, Michael Jordan) and comedians (Seinfeld) achieve such success; the “psychopathic” drive ([21:03]–[22:39]).
  • Quote:
    “We’ve liked psychopaths for so long and just misdiagnosed them as being great.” – Dan Soder ([21:40])

7. Comedy Culture: Imitation, Idolatry, and Disillusionment

• Both reflect on how young comics imitate their idols, and the importance of recognizing and moving past these influences ([32:21]–[35:15]).
  • “If when you have an impact, there’s ripples.” – Dan Soder ([33:02])
  • Anecdotes about giving advice to younger comics: “You’re doing the Shane hand thing… watch out for it.” ([34:11]–[35:07])
• Encounters with legendary comedians who turn out to be less than friendly (especially Jerry Seinfeld), shattering the hero myth ([24:29]–[27:06]).
  • Quote:
    “Greatest TV show of all time. Some of the greatest stand up ever done… Miss me with all the rest.” – Dan Soder, about Seinfeld ([24:52])

8. Parents as Heroes, Therapy Realizations, and the Cycle of Projection

• Both comics discuss projecting qualities onto fathers who were absent or distant, how therapy has helped them see these patterns, and the parallel with idolatry in comedy and show business ([27:06]–[30:20]).
  • Insight: Idols—whether parents or celebrities—often stand in for what we feel is missing.

9. Personal History, Authenticity, and the Podcast Era

• The nature of having one's entire persona recorded via podcasts, and how their kids may one day be able to learn “the real them” by listening back ([35:48]–[37:14]).
  • Quote:
    “I have no authentic glimpse at my own father… If my dad was on a podcast, I’d listen to every episode.” – Mike Cannon ([36:08])

10. Arrested Development: Nicknacks, Nostalgia, and Refusing to Grow Up

• Both comics enthusiastically discuss their love of childhood toys, “nicknacks,” and how emotionally they remain stuck around age 14 ([38:54]–[39:53]).
  • Cannon: “The movie Rad is an 80s BMX movie that I literally named my first son after. That’s how much I love the things I love.” ([40:12])
• Musing on the kids who “grew up too fast” and the societal obsession with pretending to have it all figured out ([40:54]–[41:23]).
  • “No one knows what they’re doing.” – Collective realization ([41:24])

11. Puberty, Masculinity, and Perspective with Age

• Stories about longing for adulthood, late-blooming, and wishing they could go back and just enjoy being kids ([42:06]–[43:04]).
• Realization that even with adult wisdom, you wouldn't really want to repeat school but you would crave the confidence ([43:18]–[44:24]).

12. Comedy Generations, Industry Changes, and Social Media

• Amused resignation at how comedy has evolved from old models (Carson, Letterman) to the social space: “Do you have five million Instagram followers?” ([45:23]–[46:22])
• The role of social anxiety, group dynamics, and remaining a fan of your friends—even after success ([46:57]–[47:25]).
  • “I still get that excitement… you gotta keep some of that magic.” – Dan Soder ([47:31])

13. Rules, Social Order, and Petty Joys in Adulthood

• Riffs on loving societal rules, getting excited about shaming people who cut the boarding line at airports ([58:23]–[59:53]).
  • Quote:
    “I'm an old white. Love rules, dude.” – Dan Soder ([59:06])
• Defending the “defense” chant at people who get caught breaking the rules as they board planes.

14. Family History, Racism, and Changing Times

• Reflects on family attitudes towards race, the history of suburbs (Levittown), and generational shifts ([53:23]–[54:54]).
  • Honest admissions about how even “less racist” relatives still perpetuated exclusion.

15. The Pointlessness of High School Reunions and the Ubiquity of Social Media

• Both agree reunions are obsolete in the era of social media; everyone already knows everything about everyone ([56:21]–[56:58]).

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Dumbo’s got everything—fat shaming, ear shaming, Black crows.” – Dan Soder ([02:28])
• On Comics as Cold Idols:
  “Seinfeld sucks. Greatest TV show… some of the greatest stand up ever done… Miss me with all the rest.” – Dan Soder ([24:52])
• On Parents Splitting:
  “I grew up with my mom double fingers like Pac in that Red Wings jersey. My mom was spitting at my dad…” – Dan Soder ([13:26])
• On Therapy and Idolatry:
  “In therapy I realized… it made me not give a shit about Jerry Seinfeld, Louis CK, Chris Rock… these are just guys.” – Dan Soder ([27:06])
• On Growing Up Stunted:
  “If they saw this bookcase who knew me, they’d be like, so you’re just stunted? Just arrested development.” – Dan Soder ([38:54])
• On the Rules:
  “I'm an old white. Love rules, dude.” – Dan Soder ([59:06])
• On Parenting and Nostalgia:
  “So much of my childhood was my parents seemingly never have been, like, kids for an hour of their lives.” – Mike Cannon ([52:42])
• On Podcast Legacy:
  “If my dad was on a podcast… I’d be playing college football being like, damn, my dad was partying.” – Mike Cannon ([36:13])

Thematic Highlights

Arrested Development as a Way of Life

• Both comics actively embrace their “arrested development”—loving childhood memories, refusing to fully 'grow up,' and holding on to the earnest excitement of adolescence.
• The conversation loops repeatedly to how comedy, nostalgia, and relationships are colored by childhood wounds and wishes.

The Reality of Celebrity and the Imposter Syndrome in Comedy

• Idolization gives way to the disillusionment of meeting heroes; ultimately, everyone is flawed, insecure, and muddling through.
• The magic of comedy shifts from trying to impress idols to connecting honestly with others—and oneself.

Family, Legacy, and Being Understood

• The importance of relationships where you’re truly known is a recurring theme: old friends, spouses, and even children as future audiences of your real, recorded self.
• Parenting is about passing along authenticity rather than the need to pretend or measure up.

Conclusion

This episode is a funny, honest, and sometimes poignant meditation on growing up, never really growing up, and the odd comfort of realizing that everyone—from celebrities to parents to comedians on the rise—is figuring things out as they go. For listeners, it's a mix of nostalgia, stand-up shop talk, cynicism, hope, and vulnerable friendship—wrapped up in the comic voices and rollicking banter that define Soder’s show.