62: Arrested Development with Mike Cannon | Soder Podcast | EP 60

Summary

Soder Podcast – Episode 62: "Arrested Development" with Mike Cannon

Date: December 31, 2024
Host: Dan Soder
Guest: Mike Cannon

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Episode Overview

This episode is a loose, freewheeling, and deeply honest conversation between comics Dan Soder and Mike Cannon. Circling around the theme of "arrested development"—emotional, social, and generational—the duo riff through topics like problematic childhood movies, family trauma, growing up, relationships, the challenges of adulthood, and the lasting impact of comedy and celebrity idolization. There’s a strong undercurrent of nostalgia and reflection on what it means to mature as men while remaining, in some ways, permanent adolescents.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Old Cartoons, Disney, and Problematic History

• Starts with banter about nuclear apocalypse anxieties ([00:28]) and quickly veers into a discussion on the racist depictions in old Disney movies, especially the crows in "Dumbo" ([01:07]–[02:28]).
  • Quote:
    “Dumbo’s got everything—fat shaming, ear shaming, Black crows...” – Dan Soder ([02:28])
• They talk about how their generations didn’t pick up on these issues, only later realizing the subtext.
  • Memorable moment: The crows’ names in "Dumbo" were openly racist: "Dandy," "Jim Crow," etc.

2. Looking Like Famous People

• Joking comparisons between famous people who look alike: Troy Aikman and Jay-Z ([04:01]–[05:16]), Osama bin Laden and Mike Cannon ([03:34]–[04:20]).
• Cannon shares being called the "crows" by his dad, and then about the specific facial structure comments people make.

3. Comedy, Self-Image, and Growing Up With Your Partner

• Cannon describes growing up with his wife, knowing her since childhood, and why that's special ([07:14]–[09:12]).
  • Quote:
    “You genuinely grew up with your wife. Your wife knows you better than anybody.” – Dan Soder ([08:10])
• Stories about parental interference and mistaking high-school intentions; resisting being a “bad influence” ([09:49]–[10:18]).
• Reflects on how their long history together shaped their trust and their family.

4. Parental Trauma, Divorce, and Family Dynamics

• Both comics share stories of growing up with divorced parents and the challenges of living in tension-filled households ([12:42]–[14:13]).
  • Soder describes preferring parents splitting up early to “faking it” for the kids ([13:12]–[13:57]).
  • Vivid stories about “mom gets out of the car in traffic” and the absurdity kids normalize in dysfunction.

5. College, Money Troubles, and Broken Dreams

• Cannon recounts the collapse of his dad’s finances in the 2008 recession, and how it changed his and his siblings’ college plans ([14:41]–[15:32]).
  • Nostalgia for lost college dreams; Soder shares similar sports school aspirations ([16:58]–[18:02]).
  • Soder on the realization most athletes are “dorks”—they’re nerdy about their sport ([18:04]–[18:44]).

6. On Athlete and Comedian Mindsets: Genius vs. Psychopaths

• Discussion of why some elite athletes (Tom Brady, Michael Jordan) and comedians (Seinfeld) achieve such success; the “psychopathic” drive ([21:03]–[22:39]).
  • Quote:
    “We’ve liked psychopaths for so long and just misdiagnosed them as being great.” – Dan Soder ([21:40])

7. Comedy Culture: Imitation, Idolatry, and Disillusionment

• Both reflect on how young comics imitate their idols, and the importance of recognizing and moving past these influences ([32:21]–[35:15]).
  • “If when you have an impact, there’s ripples.” – Dan Soder ([33:02])
  • Anecdotes about giving advice to younger comics: “You’re doing the Shane hand thing… watch out for it.” ([34:11]–[35:07])
• Encounters with legendary comedians who turn out to be less than friendly (especially Jerry Seinfeld), shattering the hero myth ([24:29]–[27:06]).
  • Quote:
    “Greatest TV show of all time. Some of the greatest stand up ever done… Miss me with all the rest.” – Dan Soder, about Seinfeld ([24:52])

8. Parents as Heroes, Therapy Realizations, and the Cycle of Projection

• Both comics discuss projecting qualities onto fathers who were absent or distant, how therapy has helped them see these patterns, and the parallel with idolatry in comedy and show business ([27:06]–[30:20]).
  • Insight: Idols—whether parents or celebrities—often stand in for what we feel is missing.

9. Personal History, Authenticity, and the Podcast Era

• The nature of having one's entire persona recorded via podcasts, and how their kids may one day be able to learn “the real them” by listening back ([35:48]–[37:14]).
  • Quote:
    “I have no authentic glimpse at my own father… If my dad was on a podcast, I’d listen to every episode.” – Mike Cannon ([36:08])

10. Arrested Development: Nicknacks, Nostalgia, and Refusing to Grow Up

• Both comics enthusiastically discuss their love of childhood toys, “nicknacks,” and how emotionally they remain stuck around age 14 ([38:54]–[39:53]).
  • Cannon: “The movie Rad is an 80s BMX movie that I literally named my first son after. That’s how much I love the things I love.” ([40:12])
• Musing on the kids who “grew up too fast” and the societal obsession with pretending to have it all figured out ([40:54]–[41:23]).
  • “No one knows what they’re doing.” – Collective realization ([41:24])

11. Puberty, Masculinity, and Perspective with Age

• Stories about longing for adulthood, late-blooming, and wishing they could go back and just enjoy being kids ([42:06]–[43:04]).
• Realization that even with adult wisdom, you wouldn't really want to repeat school but you would crave the confidence ([43:18]–[44:24]).

12. Comedy Generations, Industry Changes, and Social Media

• Amused resignation at how comedy has evolved from old models (Carson, Letterman) to the social space: “Do you have five million Instagram followers?” ([45:23]–[46:22])
• The role of social anxiety, group dynamics, and remaining a fan of your friends—even after success ([46:57]–[47:25]).
  • “I still get that excitement… you gotta keep some of that magic.” – Dan Soder ([47:31])

13. Rules, Social Order, and Petty Joys in Adulthood

• Riffs on loving societal rules, getting excited about shaming people who cut the boarding line at airports ([58:23]–[59:53]).
  • Quote:
    “I'm an old white. Love rules, dude.” – Dan Soder ([59:06])
• Defending the “defense” chant at people who get caught breaking the rules as they board planes.

14. Family History, Racism, and Changing Times

• Reflects on family attitudes towards race, the history of suburbs (Levittown), and generational shifts ([53:23]–[54:54]).
  • Honest admissions about how even “less racist” relatives still perpetuated exclusion.

15. The Pointlessness of High School Reunions and the Ubiquity of Social Media

• Both agree reunions are obsolete in the era of social media; everyone already knows everything about everyone ([56:21]–[56:58]).

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Dumbo’s got everything—fat shaming, ear shaming, Black crows.” – Dan Soder ([02:28])
• On Comics as Cold Idols:
  “Seinfeld sucks. Greatest TV show… some of the greatest stand up ever done… Miss me with all the rest.” – Dan Soder ([24:52])
• On Parents Splitting:
  “I grew up with my mom double fingers like Pac in that Red Wings jersey. My mom was spitting at my dad…” – Dan Soder ([13:26])
• On Therapy and Idolatry:
  “In therapy I realized… it made me not give a shit about Jerry Seinfeld, Louis CK, Chris Rock… these are just guys.” – Dan Soder ([27:06])
• On Growing Up Stunted:
  “If they saw this bookcase who knew me, they’d be like, so you’re just stunted? Just arrested development.” – Dan Soder ([38:54])
• On the Rules:
  “I'm an old white. Love rules, dude.” – Dan Soder ([59:06])
• On Parenting and Nostalgia:
  “So much of my childhood was my parents seemingly never have been, like, kids for an hour of their lives.” – Mike Cannon ([52:42])
• On Podcast Legacy:
  “If my dad was on a podcast… I’d be playing college football being like, damn, my dad was partying.” – Mike Cannon ([36:13])

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Thematic Highlights

Arrested Development as a Way of Life

• Both comics actively embrace their “arrested development”—loving childhood memories, refusing to fully 'grow up,' and holding on to the earnest excitement of adolescence.
• The conversation loops repeatedly to how comedy, nostalgia, and relationships are colored by childhood wounds and wishes.

The Reality of Celebrity and the Imposter Syndrome in Comedy

• Idolization gives way to the disillusionment of meeting heroes; ultimately, everyone is flawed, insecure, and muddling through.
• The magic of comedy shifts from trying to impress idols to connecting honestly with others—and oneself.

Family, Legacy, and Being Understood

• The importance of relationships where you’re truly known is a recurring theme: old friends, spouses, and even children as future audiences of your real, recorded self.
• Parenting is about passing along authenticity rather than the need to pretend or measure up.

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Conclusion

This episode is a funny, honest, and sometimes poignant meditation on growing up, never really growing up, and the odd comfort of realizing that everyone—from celebrities to parents to comedians on the rise—is figuring things out as they go. For listeners, it's a mix of nostalgia, stand-up shop talk, cynicism, hope, and vulnerable friendship—wrapped up in the comic voices and rollicking banter that define Soder’s show.

Transcript

[A]

Winnipeg, Canada. January 30th, the 31st, and February 1st, I will be at Rumors for five shows. Go get [e-mail] and this time, leave your infectious diseases to yourself. I try not to bring up the apocalypse too much on this podcast. Yeah, that's. Honestly, at first.

[B]

What would you do, though? You're like, this is.

[A]

We live in the blast radius. Yeah, yeah, that's a joke that I say. But it's for real.

[B]

Indian point.

[A]

Oh, right here.

[B]

Yeah. Do you know what about that Indian Point? Because we learned about that in high school. Because we're rocklin. It's like 30, 40 miles away. A nuke. An active nuclear plant from here. That is so un talked about.

[A]

Oh, I love this.

[B]

Oh, dude, right there. And in high school, they're like, so if point were to get hit, we are technically in the blast radius.

[A]

Well, there's also a theory, and I hope no terrorists are watching this, but you terrorists at home, tune out.

[B]

Don't include this in your plan.

[A]

Spoiler alert. They said that if a nuclear warhead hit a. And again, this is something I learned online. So I don't know if this is true. I have to start doing this on everything I say because I've realized I am just a child and I hear things and I go repeat.

[B]

It's like pre Disney movies. It's like, sorry about how we talked about Native Americans, but this is.

[A]

Those crows were real black and we didn't know we really were making those crows jive as fun.

[B]

My dad used to call me those crows in college because I dressed. I wore Pele. Pele jeans and triple X Air Force, you know, like long tees.

[A]

I bet if you do that now, no one would get the reference. It's almost like a sneak dis. If you can go like, hey, one of the crows in Disney.

[B]

What are their names?

[A]

The crows on the wall.

[B]

Heckle and Jekyll. No.

[A]

We could look that up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The Crows on the Wire.

[B]

Now I'm just getting caught up in some. Who gives a detail now, by the.

[A]

Way, we're both potheads. This is where we go because is it. What are you gonna actually know stuff? Crows on the Wire.

[B]

Yeah. Wow. Dandy Jim Crow. Fats Deacon Dopey inspects from Dumbo. Yeah.

[A]

The lead crow, voiced by white actor Cliff Edwards, is in an imitation of a southern African American dialect. Southern African American dialect was named Jim Crow. Just. It's in Dumbo, dude. So crazy that Dumbo. Dumbo's got everything. Fat shaming.

[B]

Dumbo icing Out.

[A]

It's got everything, Scott. Fat shaming, ear shaming, Blacks, Black crows. Dude. Yeah. What's the dark theory of Dumbo? Apparently, Dumbo is a product of biracial parentage, or within this elephant. Elephantine context, the result of a coupling between an Asian elephant and a male African elephant.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

Well, like Heinz Ward, which happened to have much bigger ears. Hence Dumbo. Dude, I didn't even know Dumbo. I didn't even know the kind of a. That's what that movie was about. About biracial kids. I thought it was just be nice to fat kids.

[B]

Don't mix races or else you'll get big ears.

[A]

That's wild. Do you want to have a freak elephant child? The stuff that they were throwing us, that was secondary. It's so funny how, like, my generation and your generation were so dumb that we were just like, no, it's about elephants in the circus. And they're like, it's about biracial parents. And you're like, oh, I had no idea. I had to have that, like, drawn out for me. That is wild, though, dude. It's so funny. Dad was just calling you racist crows constantly.

[B]

My dad also calls. Called me Muslim instead of Muslim. He just be like, you look Muslim.

[A]

Should have been like, I wish I did.

[B]

I wish I had, like, photoshopped back then. Because since people have, like, pulled up comparisons to Osama bin Laden and it's like Spoton. I look a lot like him. I've mentioned this before on shows, but.

[A]

Like, your facial structure.

[B]

My facial structure? So it doesn't look like it.

[A]

Is it like the way that Troy Aikman looks like Jay Z?

[B]

Yeah, probably.

[A]

I mean, dude, they look.

[B]

That's crazy.

[A]

I've never seen that's been on the Internet. That's not mine. Original. That's all over the Internet. Troy Eggman's white. Jay Z. It's. It's better.

[B]

Does kind of have like a Joe Camel look himself.

[A]

What's another one? Katie knows another one. I think it's like Glenn Close. Holy. You have the same face as Osama bin Laden.

[B]

Like, spot on, dude cheekbones.

[A]

How do you not have a podcast called the Cave, where you just sit Indian style on a pillow just with tape stacked around me, just watching tapes. I do love that Osama bin Laden used to beat off to VHS tapes.

[B]

What is more relatable to that?

[A]

Get caught. He's like, guys, shut the door. I'm in the middle of something. Well, SEAL Team Sissy's busting in. He's going, you're fine. I told you. I'm watching Splat on my Rack too. Starring the very hot Bianca Trump. She's early 90s, before vivid contracts. Like, you know when guys are too into porn and they know all that stuff. Yeah, it's actually pretty interesting. She worked her way. She was with Metro for a while. Gene Wilder. No, no, no, no. Gene Wilder and the guy from the Bear. Yes. Type in Troy Aikman. Jay Z. Because the comparison, I'm putting.

[B]

I'm putting it together in my head right now, and it's like, it's actually.

[A]

Once you see the photo, you'll.

[B]

It's crazy.

[A]

You won't be able to unsee it. Does that.

[B]

That is. That's like Jay Z in the Chappelle white face makeup.

[A]

Hey, guys, what's going on? And you go, you're not. That's not real, Eddie. When Eddie Murphy did that on snl, it got the paper for free. I was like, no. Yeah, that was Jay Z. Jay Z's got so much money, he dresses up as Troy Aikman. Troy Aikman died. Everyone knows this. Dragman died 20 years ago. And Jay Z's just been calling. He's just been calling games with Joe Buck. You go, dude, Jay Z in the booth, not only the rap, but in.

[B]

The broadcast booth, it really could pick apart a scheme.

[A]

It's unbelievable. You ever had Jay Z break down a soft cover, too. It's unbelievable. Yeah, man. It's like looking like I said this on the. On the last podcast, but I used to get called the. The fourth Manning brother. There's, like, people when you look like it. One time when I was waiting tables back when I was skinnier and younger, someone said I looked a little like Joaqu Phoenix, and I never saw that.

[B]

Damn.

[A]

But so you've been told.

[B]

Osama bin Laden, dude, I got another good one, too. A basketball player that you would like. He was in. He do Turkoglu.

[A]

Turkaloo.

[B]

Turkaloo, yeah.

[A]

From the Sacramento Kings.

[B]

Teardrop, like, kind of lazy eastern block eyes.

[A]

Shout out, Guy tory on Shaquille O' Neal roast from, like, 20 years ago, Guy Tory had my favorite. The Maloof brothers, who own the Kings were at the roast. And Guy Tory goes, maloof brothers is here, man. What's up with Turkalu? God wanted to look like. God wanted to make him retarded and changed his mind at the last minute. And I. That joke has never left my brain. That's like, I just was. I was into the NBA so much at that time. That I was like, that's perfect. That's like a perfect joke.

[B]

My gym teacher in high school who had. Was a lesbian who had a crush on my now wife used to like hit me with that to try to take away my self esteem.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Your lesbian gym teacher?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Had a thing for your current wife?

[B]

Yeah, I think so.

[A]

If you don't know, Mike Cannon grew up with his wife on and off. But they are like the. The most adorable story. You're like a true. No one has those stories anymore.

[B]

No, I get it.

[A]

Your grandfather took me to the dance in seventh grade, and then we were in love. Now it's like, yeah, I was on a app called Slop Pigs and she. She could suck me without using any teeth. Anyways, I put a baby in her. That's why you're here. You're like an old.

[B]

You call it. You call it cute, but no other comic has ever framed it that way. Which is why I'm always on the defense and being like, no, man, it's cool. You know, I've had other.

[A]

Ah, no, no, no. I. I genuinely. I'm. I'm down with the nuclear family. I keep looking at the camera like I'm Jim in the office, but it is. It's. I think it's adorable. You, like, knew. You genuinely grew up with your wife. Your wife knows you better than anybody.

[B]

Which is truly like, the only reason I. That's the only way I could marry somebody. Like, I don't think I could meet somebody in my 30s and then be like, all right, I think I trust you enough.

[A]

Yeah. Like, I know she's my dream girl, and I'm barely like, is this real? What? Are you going to leave me? Yeah, you're going to leave me.

[B]

I need to know that you would have hung on through puberty.

[A]

God, this. This podcast really is the opposite of the one where you go look at the girls. Whatever. What grade did you guys meet? Fifth.

[B]

We met literally. I remember at. We were on the bus line, like, to leave school, and I remember seeing her Charlotte Hornets pullover star. And I was just like, she had a pullover starter.

[A]

Charlotte. Yeah.

[B]

Whoever is cool enough to wear that as a girl. At that point, I was like, pull.

[A]

The sword from the rock.

[B]

Immediately, I hear Dreamweaver in my head.

[A]

Oh, she will be mine. It might take 26 years, but she will be mine. Yeah. I mean, dude, that. You. You have a Winnie Cooper. Yeah, no one gets a Winnie Cooper.

[B]

No. And it's so funny. We grew up next door to Each other's. And you know, so with that comes all like young fights and stuff like that. So my parents, obviously her parents had no, no clue that we were gonna work out.

[A]

No, you were, you were gonna be the guy that when your wife is dating a new guy that the parents hate, they can go like, how's Mike doing? Yeah, you ever talk to Mike? I liked him.

[B]

See, opposite though is her mother married her neighbor growing up. So my wife's father is her mom's neighbor. Like they grew up next door to each other, but they had a, they had a pretty rough divorce.

[A]

How far into it? How old? Pretty early.

[B]

So my wife was like 4. Okay, maybe. But like her mom, I remember, you know, I was like, it's not gonna work. Adamantly would be like, I don't like the influence you are on my daughter. She said to me in, in art class in 10th grade. And I was like, I'm the only reason she's not getting dicked down by.

[A]

What are you talking about? She would have so much foreign and dark dick in her. And her mom's like, what does that mean?

[B]

Her kids could have giant ears one day.

[A]

You know, her kids could marry one of the crows from the Wire. She could marry. And you're like, what? You're like, it's something my dad does. Never mind. But wait, was her mom your teacher?

[B]

She was an art teacher. I never had her directly for class though. But we would like go there for like study hall and shit.

[A]

So you, you, you got the. From another teacher?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That wasn't even your teacher.

[B]

My teacher.

[A]

Did you. Are you and your mother in law cool now?

[B]

We're also like, she's the best. There's. Once it worked out, once it worked out. Once she saw that I wasn't like in high school, I also would have looked at me and been like, this is a problem.

[A]

You can't trust a man younger than 25.

[B]

No. And I was such a. Just an out of control, like attention seeking ass. Even more. Like now I'm just, I'm more reserved and just like picking my spots about attention stuff.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then I was like an unkinked hose just fucking blasting my bullshit everywhere. Trying to get kicked out of class while, like, you know, depressing people.

[A]

I've been annoying since I was born. Yeah. Like, I get it. You get the less older you get, the less annoying you are. People still can't watch this podcast because I want to chime in with my little voices and quips. I get it, I get it. But as you calm down. You really. It's like a dog. Once you start getting those white circles around your eyes, people go, like, I like him. Just put your head on people's laps instead of just running around the house being a nightmare. Yeah, but, I mean, that is. And your parents obviously love her.

[B]

They do. Yeah. I mean, they're like. My mom is more involved daily, I guess, and my dad is kind of a periphery still around and just very into the whole thing. That it worked out, but it's crazy.

[A]

That it did, because that does not happen anymore. No, because usually what happens is the guy fucks it up in late teens, early 20s by trying to go get.

[B]

Other pussy, which is the best thing, because we didn't date, so we never dated in that time. We were always dating other people. And in that time, we'd come back and hook up. So we were the things that broke up the other relationships.

[A]

And that's how you want it to be.

[B]

It's. It's the best.

[A]

And your kids will grow up knowing, like, all right, at least my parents actually liked each other, because there's a lot of parents that are mistakes. And, like, the kids are like, I can tell you guys didn't want to be together. I can tell you guys don't like each other. Yeah. That's gotta suck even more, I've always said, man. Like, I. My parents broke up when I was, like, five. But it's better than them forcing it until you're an adult, because that's what mine did. Really?

[B]

My parents got a divorce when I was 20, I think, and for either two or three years, my mother slept on the couch, and I was. And I was living at home doing community college trout, like. And, you know, of course, you know, because behind muffled doors, it's like if Charlie Brown's mom was getting the shit kicked out of her.

[A]

And you're like, oh, man, it's pretty bad. Do you think Charlie Brown. That's why they did the parents. Were his parents abusive? Is that why we never heard him talk?

[B]

Oh, shit.

[A]

They were like, bald little fag. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's what he's saying. They're like, kill yourself, Charlie. The wrong boy died. You don't even know. That's why he's so into Snoopy. They got him so Snoopy because his older brother got hit by a car. Yeah, dude. It's. I think, like, having parents that secretly hate each other, it does more damage than people who are just, like, out in the open. And they're like, your dad because like my. I grew up with my mom double fingers. Like Pac in that Red Wings jersey. My mom was spitting at my dad every time she was like him. But I knew where she stood.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

And that's why it was kind of nicer when she died. When he died, she was like, I'll be cool about it. Sure. I don't want to speak ill of the dead.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But growing up, a lot of heat towards them. And I liked it because when I go to my friends houses whose parents didn't like each other, I felt crazy.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because I would notice it. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do your parents hate each other? And they're like, no, they're married. Stop it. And you're like, I don't think they should be.

[B]

I was. I was under the impression that everybody's mom would just, like, get out of the car in traffic and a highway and start like walking down on the side of the street.

[A]

Everybody. Your dad driving next, tapping on the.

[B]

Door like, come on, get in.

[A]

It's fucking. You're gonna get.

[B]

The kids are crying.

[A]

That's so is. Do you have siblings?

[B]

I have two sisters, so an older sister and a younger sister.

[A]

Did they wait until the youngest one was out of the house to get divorced? No.

[B]

They waited. No. Because I was still living in the house. Then I left. Then they officially got divorced and my younger sister was stuck. So she was still like, kind of. She also, to save them money, both my sister and I went to community college to try to. You know, basically. My dad was a part of that 08 collapse. He was a stock broker. That whole. So went down to zero. My sister, my older sister, all of her collegiate dreams came true. House of cards came tumbling down from.

[A]

Indiana Jones did as it closed. She was like, well, good luck. Turns out dad was invested in blackrock.

[B]

Bye, dude.

[A]

My mortgage really fucked him. Bye.

[B]

There's nothing more depressing than picking up my sister from Indiana University.

[A]

Go hitters.

[B]

The most beautiful campus ever. Just picturesque. Exactly what you assume college is.

[A]

I've only heard. I've only heard how fun it is. Right. It's a party school. That's also a good school. Yeah.

[B]

And big sport. All I wanted to do was either play sports or go to a big sports school.

[A]

Better Big ten basketball school.

[B]

I would. I would have been their videographer. Like, I would have definitely tried to do like an Eric Spoelstra row.

[A]

You would have gotten drunk and watched Hoosiers and cried. That would have been like your movie all the time. Oh, my God. You'd make Your wife and your kids go back to fucking. What is it? Fort Wayne? Indiana?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, what a dump.

[B]

Or, no, Bloomington. Bloomington.

[A]

I apologize. I'm sorry. Indiana. But also, Come on, you're Indiana. Indianapolis is a tough hang.

[B]

I've never even been back.

[A]

California, 2025, the end of February, San Diego, February 28, Los Angeles, March 1, in San Francisco, March 2. Get tickets on sale now. Dan Soder.com I will see you in 2025. And then other cities. Don't worry, we're coming. We're putting it all together. But California, you're up first on this theater tour. I'm very excited about this. Again, February 28th, I'll see you in San Diego, March 1st, Los Angeles. And March 2nd, San Francisco. Dancer.com for tickets, please buy them and I'll see you then. But. So you couldn't. So your older sister goes to Indiana, lives all the collegiate dreams.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How much older is she than you?

[B]

Four years.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Literally the moment she graduated. A year early, too. So she got out and then the money was gone.

[A]

What year did you graduate high school?

[B]

Oh, three.

[A]

Oh, so that would have been like, you were leading. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Dude. We were driving to pick her up when they were playing Duke in March Madness when Jay Williams missed that free throw and they ended up winning. And they were like, my dad and I pulled onto campus and they're just, like, flipping cars, doing all this.

[A]

I was lucky enough that I went to Arizona. When we saw Loot Olson and we were like, I mean, we're still a good team, but we were like number one and number two, Battle. We lost to Duke. My senior year of high school, we lost to Duke in the finals. And so my whole college life was like, oh, when are we going to win a championship? We didn't. Yeah.

[B]

You always had the most talented roster that always, like, you're like the Portland Trailblazers.

[A]

College, dude. My senior year, we had had Salim Stoudemire, Andre Guadala, Hassan Adams, Channing Fry, Luke. No, Luke Walton was two years older than me. It was like crazy art.

[B]

Channing Fry looks like Carl from the Simpsons.

[A]

He really does.

[B]

Giant forehead.

[A]

He's like. It's. It was crazy because that was when I realized athletes are dorks. Not all of them. Sure. The ones that are cool are the ones that stand out.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But most of them give their lives to this thing. Just in the gym all the time.

[B]

Yeah. And also, like, strategic nerds, too, where they're, like, studying somebody's tendencies. What they do on the court, all that. When you hear about, like, guys in the NBA, especially now, like, even LeBron, where he's basically an uneducated guy, went to high school, graduated, whatever, but is, according to everybody else, genius level at picking apart offenses, tendencies, all that stuff. And you're like, oh, this is. This is something else.

[A]

I had a professor at Arizona that talked about how difficult it was trying to teach Gilbert Arenas. I watch his podcast every week because his breakdown in the NBA is so good. Yeah, he's like a genius when it comes to NBA. Like, he broke down the Lakers Nugget series, the first round of last year's playoffs.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was like, oh, this is. This is exactly what's happening. But you're like, yeah, because they're. It's like. It's like the way CrossFit people. People think they're dumb, but you're like, do you know how much science they know? Because they're like, about proteins and what bonds to your muscles and what doesn't. Like, you can go in there and they'll give you a biology lesson that you're like, I have no clue. That's what it did.

[B]

It's also like, it's almost like black goodwill hunting, where, like, the white version is tolerated. So much more like the roughneck but super intelligent. Then Gilbert Arenas is putting guns on.

[A]

I mean, Gilbert's locker room. First off, he's very funny.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's why I've always loved him. Yeah. Yeah. You'll always get me if you're funny, but I loved him through Agent Zero. I missed him by a year at Arizona, but I've always been like, he's a Wildcat dude. He's ours. I might straight up buy a Gilbert Arenas Arizona jersey. You should after this conversation because I love that.

[B]

I bet his son goes there.

[A]

I don't know, but he's the man. Yeah. And his podcast. I like watching guys like him have a podcast because you're like, your NBA. Here's my theory about broadcasters. This is why I don't think Brady will ever be good, is because the good broadcasters are the guys that got near the top but not to the top.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So, like, everyone compares to Tom Brady. Greg Olson is unbelievable.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

At calling games for Fox. Brady took his spot and everyone was kind of like, hot. They're like, why is it Greg Olson still calls games for Fox B team? Right. But then you watch his games and you're like, oh, he's like, awesome.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, how he breaks it down. Tony Romo Was similar. He was good for a while because he never got. Brady's the man. Brady's the greatest of all time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's, like, weird for him to talk about it because he's like. And then, you know, you're just the best. And everyone's like, why? Explain to me how you got there. He goes, I used to do it. You're just like, unbelievable.

[B]

I do like how some of his sociopathy is coming out. Like with the Baker Mayfield yesterday, where he's like, yeah, people were stressed out. I came in, kind of inject a little bit of joy. And Tom Brady's like, if I want a joy, I'll take my kids to the fucking Disney World. Yeah.

[A]

You go, tom. It's not good. Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy. Let go, let go, let go, let go. That's what it is. He's like, if I fucking. If I ever wanted to fucking win. Fun. We're not here to have fun. It's war. And you're like, no, technically, it's a game. Technically, it's a game. It's not war.

[B]

Not at all.

[A]

Could have gone, but by the way, there's no doubt that Tom Brady would have been a successful war. General Tom Brady would have been the greatest in whatever he did because of that. It's also interesting because now we're starting to see that psychopaths. We've. We've liked psychopaths for so long.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just misdiagnosed them as being great. And then you're like. Well, he's kind of like, jordan is the greatest of all time. Yeah. His hall of fame speech is a lesson in who not to be. Yeah. He's just there. They're being like, you're the greatest of all time. He's like, like, yo, Byron Russell, I'll go. Or whoever it was, I'll go one on one with you right now. And you're like, you're at your hall of fame.

[B]

Did you see the 75th, a top 75 player thing where, like, somebody. Magic Johnson, like, you know, just joking around. I was like, ah, let's go lace him up. And Jordan's like, I'll. I'll play right this second.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And everybody's like. They were serious.

[A]

It's like when your friend. When you try to wrestle with your friend and they get too into it, you go, whoa, hey, we're around, dude. Yeah, but it's like. Like, it. That's very interesting, because that whole idea of, like, a psycho, like that Nike commercial with Willem Dafoe Doing the voiceover.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What? I want to win. I want to win more than you. And you go, cool. Commercial. Shitty idea.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you're just saying you'll do whatever it takes to win. You're a villain. Yeah, exactly. Kind of a leave some of your humanity. Like, I. And this is probably why I'll always just stay right in the middle. But I'm. I'm kind of okay with that if I'm gonna still be a human, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I don't know that. When I was a kid, I felt like such a pussy, where they're like, you gotta step on his neck, cut his throat. You're like, I live down the street from this guy, right? Yeah. Him, his parents. And you're like, can I make him laugh? Then we have fun together. Look how much fun we're having. But, like, that mentality with comedians is so gay.

[B]

It's your height of gay.

[A]

Like this. This idea and not cool gay. Like, we're each other in the butt.

[B]

No, no. Yeah.

[A]

And doing poppers. That's cool.

[B]

That is very cool.

[A]

Oh, I'm gonna. You're gonna. We're gonna have joyful sex and then do drugs together.

[B]

I'm gonna take a deep breath and then open sesame on my.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, cool. Yeah, they play open sesame all the time, and you guys are mad at them. But it's like that idea of, like, I'm gonna dominate. I'm gonna dominate. Being a silly boy. You're like, all right, dude. All right, dude. That's why I've never liked the really famous comedians. When they come around the cellar and they have that, like, what are you doing for greatness? You go, I love this. I'm gonna try to be the best comedian I can be. Outside of that, I just want to be a decent human.

[B]

Of course. Well. And it's also those guys that, like, vocally say how much they love comedians and the community of comedy and all this stuff, but if you aren't their level or their friend or somebody they came up with, you don't exist. You're a piece of shit. A barnacle on their shoe. Get the fuck out of this club.

[A]

When you're editing this podcast, replay that 10 times so people in the back can hear you. Because how many times guys that I have grown up absolutely idolizing, and then you see them and you go, oh, you suck. Yeah, you like. Like, Seinfeld sucks. Sucks.

[B]

It's exactly who I had my head.

[A]

When I was saying that. Greatest TV show of all time. Some of the Greatest stand up ever done.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Miss me with all the rest.

[B]

Yeah. All that other bullshit where it's like, you don't like comedians, you don't like your friends, which is fine. You like just.

[A]

And you like famous people.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you want to relate to famous people because you've been alone because you've been so famous. Larry David is the guy.

[B]

Yes, I agree. And I also.

[A]

But in a world of Jerry's, be Larry.

[B]

But it's always those guys, too. Like, if I bumped into a comic at a. At an airport, we immediately have something to talk about. It's like you literally would mush my face out of the way. To talk to a fan, I would.

[A]

Say Jerry Seinfeld's comedian documentary was one of the most single most important parts of my life. Deciding I was going to be a stand up.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

I loved watching him and Colin and George Wallace talk. I was obsessed with him. I idolized that. Jerry Seinfeld.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

The one I met standing outside of Stand Up New York in 2007. Hit him with a bus. I don't give a. You just walked up. And I wasn't obnoxious. Standing outside smoking a cigarette. There was no one at the club. Hey, Jerry, I'm a young comic. I just moved to New York and went like that. And you're like. You can't even go, hey, good luck, man. This is a wild ride.

[B]

It's. It's all it takes. And similar to me, I think I followed him at Comedy Juice or something and, you know, the obligatory good set or whatever. I didn't even really care for what.

[A]

He was doing up there because you're doing a pop tart joke.

[B]

He literally opened with like, oh, this is new. Like, blah, blah, blah. And then he did bits that I heard, like, years ago, and I was like, I guess keep them on their toes. But he, he, basically, I was like, oh, good set. And he stepped on my foot with his Nike Shock.

[A]

Oh, oh, but those are cool sneaks. Like the show. Oh, so you really do care about sneakers. Oh, that wasn't just on the show. Oh, Oh, I think you broke my big toe. Okay. I mean, the thing is, is, like, I think we need to start doing that with celebrities in general and start going like, you're a regular person, which means you have faults, which means I'm not idolizing you 100. Because I, I, and I. This is clearly my own psychology. But, like, I grew up with a dad that was gone that didn't want anything to do with me. So in my Mind. He was like Superman. Like, oh, how do I get him back?

[B]

Right?

[A]

1. In therapy, I realized that it made me not give a shit about Jerry Seinfeld, Louis ck, Chris Rock. I went just like, oh, these are just like, guys, yeah, they did great shit. But, like, I mean, you're doing for.

[B]

Me right now what you learned in therapy. Because I've never. I've never put that together, like, why I idolized my father or because he wasn't around all the time. And I just, like. I'd get, like, sliver or glimpses of greatness.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Funniest guy socially having a great time, like, all that stuff. So smart, really gregarious. All the people at his work really looked up to him.

[A]

And gravitational pull on people, and they would be like, deuces.

[B]

I'm gonna go play golf for nine hours on the only day I have off.

[A]

Oh, you have a birthday. I'm gonna miss it. But then I'm gonna blame the post office. And then he dies and you're like, oh, I kind of got ripped off. But I used to do this thing where, like, dude, I used to, like, when my heroes would come into the cellar, it makes my penis crawl into my body. How I think about how I used to be like, oh, wow. Do you remember when you did this? Yeah. One time I got drunk with chappelle in, like, 2012, and I just, like, was telling him bits that he never did to the point where he was like, man, I think you know my act better than I do. And I was like, I love you. I love you. But now I can't stand to be around him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because he's just around a people of yes men. So he comes in and you see him and you go like, we're in Vegas for Skank Fest, and me and Ari Shafir and Adam Eget and ran as easy went and gambled. We were watching the Giants Cowboys game.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Sit down at the table. There's these two guys from Ohio. One of them's like an older guy, one of them's like a young guy. Both hammered. And we know they're hammered.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Young guy loses his money, he's out. Old guy loses, stays there. She just keeps going to Ari because, you know, Ari's got the half hair. Keeps going. Who is this guy? And he's like, he's our friend. He's like, I need to get a picture. I don't have my phone. Who's got our phone? We're all going, we don't have our phones. Reina's easy. Says he doesn't have his phone and then literally goes. It starts texting. It was wild. This guy got so drunk that we were playing blackjack while they were going. He was like slapping like I would get like a jack and he'd be like, come on, give him a blackjack. And he was slapping his hands to the dealer. You have to stop doing that. You have to stop doing that. And it made me go, this is my dad if he is alive. Like, this is my dad if he's alive.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, this guy sucks. This would be my dad. He would be drunk, thinking he was being charming.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

He was slamming his hand on the table. He was like grabbing me and where at one point I went, don't touch me like that. He's like a New Yorkers on. You're like, I'm from Colorado. I'm very pleasant. I live in New York. You just don't grab people by their arm and you don't know. But that idea of like framing it like that and being like, you're my dad if he's alive. Yeah, I'm glad he's dead. That's what I said when I walked away. I go, God, that really made me happy. My father's dead. And egot was like, what the are you talking about?

[B]

Like, sorry. I made all these connections in my head.

[A]

Sorry. Buds of solving. But I think like a lot of the times especially, especially with celebrities is they are like these like stand ins for your parents when they suck.

[B]

I think that's actually you just brought up a good point where I think that's how I was with agents. Like, I saw agents with an authority and this ability change your life that they don't like. They're so good at talking and they're, they're very like they, they control the business. They do before you know anything about it. And I was like, oh, that's my dad.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But then you meet your dad. You're like, my dad's like like a pump and dunk stock brokers partner got carried out by the FBI.

[A]

Wolf of Wall Street. What am I thinking? Because I think it's easier, I think it's easier to project things onto other people than to like see who people really are.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that's why like your wife and you, you guys have gone through so many different versions of yourself. Yeah. That she knows who you are. She's seen all the different ones.

[B]

Truly. Yeah. I mean, and just in terms of like comedy, being able to say whatever the I want. Like she's literally known me since I was a 10 year old boy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was saying flagrant crazy all the time. And before even knowing that it was crazy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just being outraged. I told like she was in my 9th grade history class when I told our brand new like 25 year old teacher that her butt shakes when she writes on the. On the board.

[A]

Damn, dude. That her up total.

[B]

I saw her like three, three months ago, that teacher and she was like, she's like, yeah, I remember your class. Just like she was very kind and.

[A]

Being like, now butts are in. Back in the 90s, I was upset I didn't have big fat tits and now look at me. Had a jiggly badon dog somebody. Yeah. So funny. My big fat tits are still here. Yeah, dude. I think it really, it makes me feel less crazy when those things happen. Like I don't have anything personal against any of the people. I was just saying that I don't have a personal thing against Jerry Seinfeld at all.

[B]

No.

[A]

If anything, I would thank him for all the stuff he's made. Because when I am sick, I love putting on Seinfeld. It's my favorite show. It warms my heart.

[B]

Well, an ideal shatterers are actually just as important to your life as actual heroes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's like if you can get reality from that. Like if this guy isn't what you built him up to be and you run into him in real life, you're like, wow, thank you for this gift. I no longer have to idolize strangers.

[A]

Well, now I'm watching my friends get idolized. I'm watching naked idolize. I'm watching Shane get idolized. And it's like watching.

[B]

What is that like to watch Shane have little, little creations? Like not, not like people that are doing Shane on stage, which are a lot, a lot, a tremendous amount.

[A]

But I think that's just a part of comedy. I think when I started, everyone was doing Dane Cook. When I moved to New York, everyone was doing Dave Attell. I think even Shane admits he was doing Louis for a long time. You know, like I was doing Burr. Yeah. For like, like 0709. When you're just like trying to figure it out. Totally. So I think that's like part of comedy is if when you have an impact, there's ripples.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When you drop a big enough rock into a pond, it's gonna spread. I think. Like, I think there's, there's something important in telling people they're doing Shane because I think that's Important. Like, I remember watching people be told they're doing a tell.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then. Then you watch it. Dude. Nate. Literally one time I got off stage and he goes, you're doing Burr. And I, like, listened to the set, and I was like, he's right. I gotta talk more like myself. Oh. And then you just kind of guide yourself. So you stop watching that. You get away from it. It. And Shane's also the best. Yeah. So, like, of course people are going to mimic the best because, you know, he's doing it. But there was a. I did a show in Chicago, and there was a really funny young comic, and he was doing the double hand thing. Now, double hands thing could be a tell. Yeah. But more modern. It is Shane totally with the handoff back in shrug. The.

[B]

I've seen a fair amount of belly rubs as well.

[A]

Or, you know, Nate started the Admiral. Yeah. Full credit. Nate started the Admiral. And then Shane self. Admittedly, we all started doing it. Because you look at it. Because stand up is about writing jokes, but it's also learning what to do with your hands.

[B]

100.

[A]

Because you can't just.

[B]

Dude, there's no other time that I feel wavy.

[A]

Hey.

[B]

Anyways, do you feel insecure whenever you feel your arm be almost, like, down?

[A]

You're like.

[B]

I'm like, what the are you doing?

[A]

And I hate putting my hand in my pocket.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I used to put my hand in my back pocket. Like, I'm being real sexy.

[B]

Multi pot.

[A]

Pull me over and pour me out. I know this shit's boring, but it's true. It's, like, trying to figure that out. So when you see a guy like, Shane had the double mic thing, well, now his hands are taken care of. And it was a good delivery service of like, yeah, joke and joke. So I did a show in Chicago, and super funny comic God, guy had, I think his name. I don't want to his name up. His name's Joe. After I was like, dude, you're super funny. You're doing the Shane hand thing. And he's like, I know. I love Shane. And I was like, I know. Everybody does. Yeah. But just like, I'm not telling you, like, yo, you're ripping them off. I'm saying, like, watch out for it.

[B]

Right, Right.

[A]

And he was not upset about. He was like, dude, thank you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I don't think there's this weird thing where people don't want to tell each other the truth. They don't want to go, you're doing, like, right to the point.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because if you're right to the point. People are like, you're a. Maybe Seinfeld's just right to the point.

[B]

Yeah, that's his.

[A]

You're in my way. Make right better jokes. And you're like, okay. Right.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

I. You got. You got a hair transplant and you're not talking about it. I think that's weird. As a guy with hair, tits, I think you got to talk about it.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And it's like when celebrities show up with. With tinier foreheads, maybe say something. Get right to the point. But do you feel like with your. Like the. You have two kids now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. With the amount of podcasts and standups you've done, are you worried for the day that your son discovers all the podcasts you've been on?

[B]

I'm almost like, I'll be impressed if he does. Like, at this point, I've done so many. I've done. There's so much of me out there that, like, if he's actually interested in combing through that stuff, I'll be like, wow, did I do a good job parenting.

[A]

I'll tell you what, if you die.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He will listen to every. If my dad was on a podcast.

[B]

That didn't consider that one.

[A]

If I found a podcast from the 70s of my dad being like, that coke was great last night. I'd be like, I'd be playing fucking college football. Being like, like, damn, my dad was partying.

[B]

I'm looking forward to that, though, a little bit, because I have no authentic glimpse at my own father.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I have no real, like, what he was like. Even his brothers are like, can't tell you that. It's like, that's his whole life.

[A]

Please.

[B]

Yeah, I was like, I would. I'm 39. I would love to hear about it.

[A]

Please tell me I'm entering my 40s and I have two children. You could tell me that my dad fingered a lady at fucking a drive in movie theater.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's not going to blow my mind. Not at all. I mean, we talked about it on this podcast, but I found a letter my dad wrote to my grandma. Pussy whipped. He was like, straight up whipped. Like, you read the letter and you're like, he's like 25 in it. And you're like, yeah, and I'm 41 now. I look back, I'm like, that's a kid. I know that thought. Not making fun of. I mean, I'm making fun of my dad, but I'm also like, I. I've Never got to have a moment where like, oh, yeah, you were a guy. You're a guy like me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And you, you got married young and had a baby and then you got out of that and you got like new. And you were talking about it the way 25 year old boys talk about getting new pussy. It's the best. She does stuff the last one didn't even even think about doing. That's love. And you go, no, no, no. Because they didn't have any authentic like you said. Yeah. You couldn't really get the authentic thing where like, I'm not having kids, but my, you know, whatever. One of my friends, kids that I'm close with, if they were to watch on my podcast, they'd be like, I have a pretty good idea who Dan was.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, that's it. Maybe it's almost a reaction. It is definitely a reaction to my father never filling me in on anything. But it's. I've also held him in such high regard that turned out to be false. Where it's like, oh, at least now if my son likes me, he'll know. He'll know who I am through and through.

[A]

Well, I think that's also like kind of a ongoing theme with your relationships is that like, you have these relationships where people actually know you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

That's where it gets dangerous. It's like when you have a lot of relationships with people that they don't really know you, they start thinking, they start treating you like you're one thing when you're like, well, I'm not even that. That's why it's got to feel crazy to be that fantastic famous, because everyone's just like, no, this is who you are in my mind.

[B]

Totally. I mean, I almost feel that way still, even to this day, because I'm so. I have so much social anxiety that has just kind of popped up over the last few years. But I feel that way with people that I've known for years in comedy where it's like, oh, they've seen glimpses of who I am, but they don't really know who I am.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I would say that's probably most people in any work environment.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think outside it's not just comedy. I think if you work at an office or whatever, there's moments where people see probably the real you. But I have no idea. It's like going to someone's house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, oh, this is where you live.

[B]

This is what it smells like.

[A]

Oh, I didn't know you collected Barbies? That's weird, right? You know, like, I'm sure there's people, if they saw this bookcase who knew me, they'd be like, so you're just stunted? Just Arrested development. And you're like, oh, 100. I like knickknacks and toys and books, and I'm a giant child, and I'm. I'm emotionally 14.

[B]

Knickknacks rule, though, I think. Yeah. My son's a big knickknack kid.

[A]

Love it.

[B]

He just collects. That's his whole life.

[A]

That's what I was like. We cleaned out my grandma's townhouse, but I'm upset I didn't take it because it got trashed. I'm actually genuinely upset I didn't grab it. There was an Energizer bunny that they used to sell like Christmas at 88. Yeah. And it was like when the Energizer bunny first came out, and I had it and I put it on my grandma's bookcase when I was little, and it stayed there, I mean, until they cleared it out.

[B]

Decades.

[A]

And I wish I would have grabbed it on the last trip I left it. I was like, I'm gonna leave this little piece here. But now I'm like, I should have put it on the bookcase because I loved knickknacks like your son.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Just like having little things, and you're like, oh, I like this.

[B]

And it's also like, I. I mean, I. It seems like you're this exact way, but I hold everything that I loved as a child in such high regard. Still, there's nothing that could make me break up with it. Like, the movie rad is an 80s BMX movie that I literally named my first son after. That's how much I love, like, the things I love.

[A]

You named your kid after Rat Crew?

[B]

Yeah, that's my son's name. Yeah, I named him after the lead character. That's not even the guy's name in the movie. That's his nickname. His name is Christopher.

[A]

That's so funny. And they go, what about Christopher Ego? Not Crew. Yeah, Crew. No, dude, that's.

[B]

People think I named it after Chrissy Dade.

[A]

That's so funny. Yeah, that's like. I mean, dude, that's hilarious. Yeah. Name my son after the rollerblading movie Airborne. His name's Devil's Backbone. That was the course, but it was. It was a big movie. But I really do. I think there's, like. I think there's a part of that. Do you remember when you were growing up in the. In the people that you knew that were too quick to become adults?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, where there were, like, 12 wearing cologne. Yeah.

[B]

Yes, do.

[A]

What the fuck are you doing? 12 years old wearing cologne.

[B]

But I feel like I idolize those people, though, because, I don't know, I've always looked for people that look like they have it figured out because I'm.

[A]

That's humanity.

[B]

I'm in. In shambles at all times.

[A]

I think that's. That's. That's the reason that cult leaders, tent preachers, business CEOs. That's, like, Diddy got his power because. Did he act like he knew what he was doing?

[B]

100. Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

No one knows what they're doing.

[B]

No. I remember this kid, Chris Walsh, that I grew up with, went through puberty when he was, like, 8, and he was the best athlete far. And why in my town for, like, I mean, almost a solid decade, like, 10 years, but he's still like. Like, I would assume. I haven't seen him in adulthood, but he stayed. Stopped growing at, like, 15. Oh, my God, he's like, 5, 7, 5, 8 for the rest of his life. But I was always just so. I'm like, you're my idol, dude. The way you play middle school baseball is unbelievable.

[A]

I remember, like, I. I remember that feeling of being, like, middle school, high school and seeing a guy, like, confident in himself and wear, like, a hat or something. Go, this guy has no problems in the world. Rolls off him like a water off a duck's back.

[B]

I also had no pubes until N grade, so I think that was a big thing where it's like, I didn't.

[A]

Grow until my junior year. Yeah. I was, like, small until my junior year. Gangly with a big head. I look like a bobblehead dog.

[B]

I used to. I used to stand next to my window in my room and, like, pull my pants down to find pubes, like, in the sunlight because it would glisten and the contrast would be a bit more.

[A]

Shout out. Nick Myers and Jason Po. We were in, like, seventh or eighth grade, and they were, like, bragging about getting pubes, and we were like, like, go into a girl's house. And I had to lie. I was like, oh, yeah, I got a couple. We got to go. We got to go. I'm run away. Because you were like, oh, yeah. You don't realize how important that is. But then also now. Now that we're, you know, I'm in my 40s, and you're reaching There it's like you just want to go back to that kid and go to. Just enjoy being 11 and 12. Like, yeah, soak it up, dude. Because it ends every so fast. But you don't realize because it feels forever.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's still like, I feel like every moment of my life, I've been like, dread, like, really reaching for the next level. Like, every single. And I still, even at this age, have not learned to relax and enjoy and remain back.

[A]

And you go like, you know, everyone goes, oh, if I went back to high school, I'd get so much. Or like, if I went back to high school, it's like, well, yeah. With your adult brain. Because you'd be confident. Yeah. You would be like, oh, I don't need this. This is all stupid. Right? But don't tell me you would kill it in high school. You have to do homework again, go to classes and take notes. You're not killing it. You'd be like, fuck this shit. With your adult brain. Yeah, your adult brain, dude. I woke up this morning, I could smoke a bowl if I felt like it. I woke up, I could just rub a lady's butt. I'm marrying a lady. I could rub her butt. Rubber butt as long as I want.

[B]

That is pretty cool to have a butt to rub on demand.

[A]

Just wake up and go, I'm butt rubbing this morning.

[B]

Just magic a ball. Start to your day.

[A]

I'll make a coffee, I'll smoke weed. I'll blow everything off. Play college football for three hours. I'll get in trouble, but I'll do it. Fucking do it. But then, like, I remember so many times being like, if I go back to high school, it would. The idea is great. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But what you're. I. I think what. Whenever I would say that, I would be saying that. That because I know myself better.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I was so, like, when I was Even in my 20s, like, you're talking about it dating your wife and having that break between late teens, early 20s. Dude. When I moved here and I was doing stand up, I. If I were Louie or Bill Bird Seinfeld, I wouldn't want to talk to me either. No. Me just standing outside. Yeah. Patrice used to say that all the time.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When young comics were outside, be like, don't. I don't want your weird young comic energy. And you're like, oh, no. He was right.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I still. It is funny because I'm faced with myself all the time, as are you. It's just young comics that Are like. Especially at Skank Fest, where they're like, oh, my God. Like, you know, And I love talking about it. It's awesome.

[A]

I love talking about it because I still love comedy the same as I did. And it's also, like, fun to talk to a young comic, to be like, ah, it's all. Don't worry about this. But also, I mean, it's crazy to think about this. If you really want to go full circle the way that those old guys. It would have been nice to know that those older comics are like, everything's changing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Nothing is the same. Yeah. Like, they used to do Carson. They did Carson and they were millionaires. They would do a fucking an hour special once every seven years. And everyone would be like, yeah. And now everyone's like, all the time. Dump everything you have. And you're just like, ah. But. But it's. Everything changes and everything's evolving and no one knows what's actually happening. That that should be the piece that it brings you.

[B]

But again, it was all dudes that thought they had it figured out. Because it was an established business model, things didn't change all that drastically. If anything, there were just a few more opportunities that would pop up here and there. And then once the flood hit, Eddie Brill.

[A]

You knew Eddie Brill was booking Letterman.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You knew if Eddie Brill saw you and he liked you, there's a chance you're gonna get on Letterman. If you get on Letterman, you can maybe work the improvs and the funny bones and all this. And now they're like, do you have 5 million Instagram followers? You're like, no, I was doing the other thing. And I go, well, we don't do that anymore. And you go, well, then me.

[B]

Can you come on our show, do five minutes and save our failing business model, please?

[A]

But it really. It's like, you know, I think whenever you feel like a. And I go through it all the time, but whenever I feel a giant ping of, like, insecurity or anxiety or whatever, it's nice to go like, oh, there's 8 billion other people feeling the same exact thing. Yeah. No one is like. And that's kind of what's been cool about being able to do shows with guys that I idolize or guys that I. I see are cool. And, like, you realize, like, they. They got problems. Totally.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's got a host of that. You have no idea what's going on.

[B]

No, that's a. It's actually being friends with you guys. Like, truly, you, Mark, Joe, Sam, like, that, that era, you were all, like, the step ahead of me when I first came into the city and, like, established and working and so good at comedy that I still feel weird around you guys.

[A]

Yeah. Because we've been friends forever.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Like, yeah, We've known each other over.

[B]

A decade, and it's still like, oh, that's Dan. So, like, I still.

[A]

Even though he calls me, I still get very excited.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. And I love Bobby. He's, like, one of my close friends, but I still get that excitement. Like, Bobby Kelly's going.

[B]

If you guys are in the back of the room while I'm on stage, forget it, dude.

[A]

Jim Norton just said, what's up? Yeah. And I'm like, oh, it. I love little Jimmy. He's just opening. You know what I mean? Like, because I think those are. It's not growing out of that. Like, you got to keep some of that magic. Like, genuinely. I could probably have a conversation with Seinfeld, and he could be like, do you know how much it costs upkeep Porsches? Do you have any idea? I own 20,000 Porsches, and it's hard to upkeep them. And I'd be like, I never knew you had that anxiety. It's like, that sucks. Of course, I don't talk about my hair transplants. I gotta notice too much stuff. You're like, oh, thank God. It just. That's, like, nice. Yeah. It's nice to know that. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. It is nice to be hit with somebody else's problems.

[A]

Humanity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's just nice to know when someone's, like, human. And it's kind of nice when Tom Brady sucks at broadcasting.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

Because you're like, oh, oh, you're not great at everything you do. I bet he'll get good at it.

[B]

100.

[A]

Because he's got that mentality.

[B]

Won't allow himself to be bad.

[A]

Yeah. But you're like, okay, kind of suck at it for a little bit. It's kind of nice watching people who are great at stuff suck at other stuff. It's nice.

[B]

He's already doing the thing that, like, I, I, we were doing on our podcast when it was getting low numbers, and then we'd, like, do. We'd bring back, like, poetry or something that we wrote as a teenager. He wrote the pros and cons of Becoming a bear. And he's like, guys, I have content every.

[A]

I told Katie every week he's gonna do that. He goes, you know, I almost thought about going to the Jaguars, and they're like, stop, Tom. Tom. You know, I could have her with the Bears. Every Bear fan was like, and by the way, I know that because I'm a 49ers fan. And he did that with the 49ers. He goes, you know, I tried to go to the 49ers in 2020. And I'm like, just kissing the air. We would have been back in the Super Bowl. Oh, oh. Why did we go? Jimmy Garoppolo that. That the second year. But you're like, it's. He's just. He's honey dick. He's honey dipping you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

He's just like, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And it's working.

[A]

I thought I was going to be a Bear. Let's go to their game. And everyone's like, liar. You weren't going to go to the bears in. In 2020. Who they had.

[B]

I don't even know who they had.

[A]

They were. They were. They weren't a good team. Like, that's. Yeah, he was going to go to one of three teams and he went to the Buccaneers because they built an all star team team for him.

[B]

Right. They went one year, Florida.

[A]

They went one and done. Yeah. No taxes. You can live by your other kid. And he went, I'll do it. Whatever.

[B]

Your other kids.

[A]

Yeah. His first kid. I've always said the greatest storyline because, you know, Tom Brady had. Was pregnant with Bridget Moynihan.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

Yeah. Then he left for Giselle. Yeah.

[B]

Who was hot in the recruit.

[A]

She's unbelievable.

[B]

Yeah. She was smoking.

[A]

Such a big crush on him. I wanted him to stay with her.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I get. He goes and gets Gisele Bundchen. Supermodel. But I always thought Hispanic Avatar. Yeah. Pump me full of babies. She's like. But I always thought it would have been really funny is if Tom Brady's son with his first. With Bridget Moynihan, like, you know how he went to Michigan? He's like a quarterback or whatever. Like, just train that first kid to be like the meanest linebacker and go to Ohio State and just be like, I'm gonna fucking destroy quarterbacks the way you feel about your dad. He's just like, I'm gonna fucking eat quarterbacks for guy. Kiss me on the lips in front of the press. I'm gonna kill him.

[B]

Yeah. While he was laying down. I think that was the bigger issue is the kiss was while he was flat on his back.

[A]

I remember kissing my dad and after like five, I was like, yo, is this gay? Yeah, yo, can we handshake this feels gay. It's like, bye. And you're like, ew. Are you gay, Dad?

[B]

I can't even kiss my son. Like, I can't. I kiss my son on his head, on his cheeks, like all that stuff.

[A]

Stuff.

[B]

But if I plant one on his lips. Kids have such wet mouths.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That. It's like. It's just too. It's too much.

[A]

You kiss your wife on the lips sometimes?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

[A]

Just put this in your mind. Okay. Track. When he. When that gets weird. When kissing your mom. When your mom goes. Yeah, you go kissing you lady.

[B]

I think it's already there. He's already like, mom.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like six, five. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[A]

So he's right at that time. Yeah.

[B]

That's his leap.

[A]

I ain't trying to you Mom.

[B]

Dude, that's. That's what happens when you go to kindergarten. Out of nowhere, you are like. Like, you have 90 of your influence is from your parents.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Then you go to kindergarten, you ride the bus and you're like, you emancipated yourself.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

From everything. You're like, I don't even know you losers anymore. He did the gritty home like the other day, and I was like, dude, what the is happening right now?

[A]

Sick. Your son's hitting the grid. I love that he's coming home. He's like, I learned about numbers today. That is sick. That is. But that's. That's the fun part of being a parent. You get to watch all the things that like, like, you're going through.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're a smart guy. You also, like, work on yourself and you do drugs and that kind of stuff where you get perspective.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Not like our parents generation, which was like, dive into alcohol and no one else's your worries.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You get to, like, as you fix your problems, you get to watch your son start his.

[B]

Totally.

[A]

That's why being a good dad is.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And it was.

[A]

Give him the tools to be like, hey, don't. Don't idolize people. Yeah.

[B]

And also acknowledge the fact that I had a childhood. Like, so much of my childhood was my parents seemingly never have been like kids for an hour of their lives.

[A]

Dude. The boomers love to tell you that. They were like. They act like chimney sweeps. Like, they got put at to work at like 5 years old. And some of them did. My mom worked from the time she was like 13 on, but she hit me with like, that. When I was your age, I did this. And you're like, well, it sounded like it's something sucked Right, Right. So why don't we change that? So why are we doing this? Why are we running it back when you self admittedly said it blew?

[B]

Yes. My dad was like. He was one of eight in Levittown, Long Island.

[A]

Oh, so, like, by the way, the first suburb.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In America.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh. And.

[B]

Well, and I. I asked him recently, I was like, were you guys, like, aware of the racial component? Oh, like, the fact.

[A]

The reason they built suburbs were sure black people did not move out. Well.

[B]

And Lev John Levitt, the guy who designed Levittown, Long island and Levittown, Pennsylvania, post World War II, it was meant for Booner boomers. And there was one black family that moved in, and they were the subject of, like, Molotov cocktails, like, people trying to violently evict them from their homes. And I asked. My dad was like, did you guys know that was going on? He's like, I really?

[A]

Yeah, dude. My grandma, before she, like, you know, she was still around. I would ask her, because she was born in 1927 in Oklahoma, like, moved to Cal the California way. Not because of the Dust Bowl. It's fun to say that, but it's. Her dad got a job out in the Bay Area, so she's like 15 years old, living in Oakland. And I'm like, going to school in Oakland. And I'm like, were you racist? I go, you must have been racist. And she's like, no. You know, I had never seen black people before because she was coming from Oklahoma, and she was like, but they were just people. So then you go, oh, that's real chill. My grandma was one of the ones that wasn't racist. Meanwhile, I have a. A black cousin that no one ever talks to. So you're like, well, Dana, I think you were kind of real racist. I think you were super up. And you probably owe Nayshawn a giant apology because I've never met her, and she hates our family. And I get it.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

And I get it because I have a cousin that's like, yeah, you guys.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm also like, by the way, I'm white. And they were shitty. To me, this family did not miss. They were a. But I know. I honestly, honestly, they might not be racist. They might just be horrible parents.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Everyone in that family might have just been really bad at being a family member.

[B]

I had. I have a cousin who did that thing where, like, grew up a certain way, had that break free of, like, everybody here is racist. This is up. And now she's a radicalized Muslim. Like, she's like, in ISIS and Salah, dude. Like, the curvy letters on her Facebook, the whole cover up, posting wild anti America shit. And you're like, wow, that's the.

[A]

That's the line whenever you see a lot more. Just. Yeah, just. That's so funny to have a cousin that you're like, what's your name now?

[B]

I haven't seen her in, I mean, minimum 25 years.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Like, this is only kept up through social media. Crazy. And she's open about it.

[A]

But that's also. I think that would have been cooler back in the day to have, like a mysterious cousin that's Muslim. Yeah. Because just, you know, it's like, you haven't seen her and you're like, is that Penny? And she's like, assalamu alaikum. And you're like, what should I call you? I named after the Nile. All right, this sounds way more prestigious. Because now you, like, watch people change. So the change isn't as effective as people just showing up. That's why I think high school reunions now aren't.

[B]

No, they suck.

[A]

Everyone watches you grow. The whole point of high school reunions back in the day was someone to show up and be like, like, what the. Oh, my God. What the. And then now you're like, yeah, I know. I follow you on Instagram. You're insufferable. Yep. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, that's like, my 20th year was last year. I guess 23. And it didn't happen because of social media. People were just like, nobody gives a dude. We all see how we're doing.

[A]

Mine was 20, 21, and they were like, are you gonna come? You're like, I. I talked to every. I. I have. I have touch with everyone from high school that I'm supposed to have touch with.

[B]

Me too, too. Me too. I'm still friends with all my boys that I grew up with, and that's.

[A]

That some of them actually watch this podcast.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

Which is crazy. Hey, guys.

[B]

Hi, boys.

[A]

Kind of like the garage, huh? We're gonna get high after this, so. It really is. But it is. I. That's. High school reunions are a dated thing. Yeah. I are writing letters. You're like, who the.

[B]

It's only for people in prison.

[A]

I can't wait to get out. I'm gonna go. Wow, everybody. Yeah, it's. It's. As everything changes, you can, like, because as we get older, I think we're also starting to hit that thing right now where I'M getting a little crotchety towards change where I'm like, why is it gotta change? It was good the way it was. Yeah, well, it wasn't good for everybody, so maybe it is changing. I think right now we're. I'm excited for a bunch of. To change.

[B]

Truly. What, like, specifically, what, like, socially or.

[A]

Just, like, the way everyone's acting?

[B]

Yeah, I want. Like, I want. I wish there was, like, a social solar flare.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Like, something that could just completely wipe out people's behavior and make them start from zero. Then we can.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then we can, you know, blow in the controller, start fresh, see if we can say hi and look each other in the eyes.

[A]

Just hit the reset button.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because most people face to face are great, but not all. No, but there is. You know, there's. I don't know, man. It's. There's a lot of. Where you're like. Like, I hate. I think it's never been better and it's never been worse. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, I think that's how it is.

[B]

I've never been closer to John Goodman in the Big Lebowski. Like. Like, literally, like, packing my gun. And does anybody follow the rules? That's, like, my whole thing.

[A]

Dude, you're a white guy about to hit your 40s. All we care about is the rules. It's all about the rules. Those aren't the rules. You're not following the rules. Someone will skip. You're boring right now. You're not. You're not zone one. You're not zone. Well, I saw your ticket. You're zone three. The are you doing?

[B]

Oh, speaking of which, just a little aside. I saw Feeny get picked off yesterday trying to pull that shit. He's always an early zone jumper, and he's like, oh, no, I'm in the one before you. And I saw him go up there. And the lady goes, that's not right. And pushed him to the side and he waited by himself.

[A]

Can I tell you my favorite thing to do in those moments? It does happen often. I'll be waiting there, and I'll see someone jump there. I'll see someone jump the route. I'll see him try to go for the pick six. But then they get denied. They get mutumboed. Rip King. When that happens, most of the time, if I'm in a good mood, I'm in a jovial mood. And it's not too early in the morning when I see someone get denied, I'll go, defense, defense. And they'll. And sometimes the gate Agent will, look at me. You know, I. It. I love rules. Rules. I'm an old white. Love rules, dude. It's so funny to do that, though. They go like, sir, we're not boarding that. You just go, defense.

[B]

Oh, my God, I hope that spreads.

[A]

Yeah, stop doing it, dude. Stop doing it because you are. It's the shame. Yeah, shame. One time I walked. I told the story on the bonfire, but. But it was one of my favorite moments of waiting tables. When the collapse happened in 08, we got a ton of Europeans that would come and eat at those Caminos. Not tip. One time during lunch, it was crazy busy, and this guy with, like, his. Just this lady, if she wasn't a whore, to quote the great Dave Chappelle, you're wearing a whore's uniform. But she was, like, dressed like a. And they sit down, and I'm in the weeds. I'm. I'm so behind on every table. And he sits down and he's got the menu. And he goes, step. Be steady. And I go, excuse me. And he goes, bistek. I go, well, we have two items that are steak. We have the asada tacos, and we have the asada burrito, but we don't have a steak. And he goes, steak. I want steak. And I go, well, we don't have that. And he goes, you don't have that? I leave, and he puts the menu down. I go, bye. And he gets up and walks away. And as he was leaving, I slapped the ground like a point guard, and.

[B]

I hiked up your slacks.

[A]

I picked up my pants and I slapped him around. My friend Los, who was bartending, was like, did you just point guard defense that Spanish couple from leaving? And I was like, goddamn right I did, dude. Pistols. Pistols. Pistols. Pistols, Dude.

[B]

Dude, I'll lock you down as a white point guard. That was like my whole role. Slap the floor, clean the bottom of my feet, then just dirty palms up.

[A]

I'll get my squeaks on, dude.

[B]

Pre sticky mat. You had to do it yourself.

[A]

Yeah. You're like football. I knew you appreciate that as a basketball fan. Just walking him. Mike Cannon is hilarious. He's got a special, a brand new special out on YouTube. Anxiety.

[B]

A traumatized animal.

[A]

Traumatized animal. Filmed at Stanford, New York.

[B]

Yeah. At the New York Comedy Club in Stanford, Connecticut. That room rules.

[A]

The room rules. Yeah. And you walk in that room and you kind of go, is this gonna be a good room? And then the show starts and you're like, oh, this is a.

[B]

It feels like theater club hybrid in the sense that, like. And that's the sound we got from it, too, where it's, like, super intimate. Everybody's kind of on top of you, but it booms.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Awesome.

[A]

So check out traumatized animal on YouTube right now. You're the man.

[B]

Appreciate you having. Thanks for having me.