Podcast Summary: Maximizing Cloud Efficiency with Jerzy Grzywinski and Brent Segner

Podcast Information:

• Title: Software Engineering Daily
• Host: Shawn Falconer
• Episode: Maximizing Cloud Efficiency with Jerzy Grzywinski and Brent Segner
• Release Date: February 4, 2025
• Description: Technical interviews about software topics.

1. Introduction to the Podcast and Guests

In this episode of Software Engineering Daily, host Shawn Falconer welcomes two seasoned experts from Capital One: Jerzy Grzywinski, Senior Director of Software Engineering and leader of FinOps, and Brent Segner, Distinguished Engineer focused on performance engineering and cloud cost optimization. The trio delves into the intricacies of cloud optimization, balancing performance with cost, and the evolving landscape of cloud technologies.

2. Background and Expertise of the Guests

Brent Segner introduces himself as a distinguished engineer with over two decades of experience in cloud cost optimization and performance engineering. He mentions, “[...] I've been with Capital One now for just over two years, focused on all aspects of cloud cost optimization, performance engineering” [01:29].

Conversely, Jerzy Grzywinski shares his extensive tenure at Capital One, spanning nearly 16 years, during which he has undertaken various engineering roles. Currently leading FinOps, Jerzy emphasizes his passion for merging technology with finance, stating, “[...] technology brought me to something that has a finance problem statement, but also a technology problem statement” [02:37].

3. Motivation Behind Cloud Migration

The conversation shifts to Capital One's strategic move to the cloud. Jerzy explains, “Capital One decided that's the direction we want to go. We want to be nimble and fast, we want to attract the best talent” [04:21]. This transition was driven by the need to innovate rapidly, attract top-tier talent, and replace cumbersome on-premises infrastructure with scalable cloud solutions.

4. Impact on Development and Time to Market

Jerzy contrasts the pre-cloud and post-cloud environments, highlighting the drastic reduction in deployment times. “[...] the time to market for someone to say I need a server to they are actually able to deploy code on that server, let alone that server, be able to talk to anything else was measured in weeks, months and definitely not hours, minutes” [06:35]. The cloud empowered developers with unprecedented speed and flexibility, fostering a culture of rapid iteration and deployment.

5. Financial Operations (FinOps) and Cost Optimization Strategies

FinOps emerged as a critical focus area, aiming to instill cost-consciousness among developers. Jerzy notes, “[...] our goal is to get developers to think about what their spend is, because now they do have access to provision and build things in a way that can be efficient or can be very clunky” [08:57]. The team strives to balance the newfound freedom of the cloud with responsible spending, ensuring that scalability doesn't translate into runaway costs.

6. Building Trust with Engineering Teams

A significant challenge in FinOps is fostering trust with engineering teams. Jerzy emphasizes the importance of empathy and collaboration: “My goal is like, how do I bring value to the developer either through tools, automation, et cetera, or through engagement and information in order for that developer to be successful” [10:00]. By providing actionable insights and celebrating successes, the FinOps team positions itself as a partner rather than a gatekeeper.

7. Measuring Compute Efficiency: CoreMark Benchmarking

A pivotal topic discussed is the CoreMark benchmarking developed by Brent. He explains, “[...] Core Mark score allows us to be able to compare apples to apples across instance sizes, instance families, clouds, and even down to bare metal hardware residing in a physical data center” [15:44]. This unified metric aggregates performance across nine distinct CPU operations, enabling precise capacity planning and instance selection tailored to specific workloads.

8. Balancing Instance Types and Performance

The guests delve into the nuances of instance sizing. Brent shares insights from their benchmarking efforts: “As we continue to test and we grew past 16 VCPU, we saw a 12% performance hit per CPU” [20:07]. This phenomenon, attributed to surpassing physical hardware boundaries like NUMA, underscores the importance of horizontal scaling over vertical scaling to maintain performance efficiency.

9. Language Choices and Their Impact on Cost and Performance

The discussion transitions to how programming languages influence cloud costs and performance. Brent articulates, “[...] language selection, library selection just plays a very foundational role influencing like resource utilization, performance, scalability” [28:16]. For instance, while Python offers rapid development and ease of use, switching to languages like Go or Rust can yield significant performance gains, thereby reducing cloud expenditure.

10. GPU Optimization Compared to CPU Optimization

GPU optimization presents a distinct set of challenges compared to CPU optimization. Brent highlights the architectural differences: “You can't take a look at how busy the CPU is. The CPUs only function in this environment is how quickly can it dispatch instructions to a GPU” [31:56]. Effective GPU optimization involves maximizing the utilization of streaming multiprocessors and CUDA cores to fully leverage parallel processing capabilities.

11. Sustainability and Carbon Footprint Considerations

Sustainability has become a paramount KPI for Capital One. Jerzy states, “[...] sustainability to be one of our top KPIs that we measure” [39:18]. The team integrates environmental impact metrics into their optimization strategies, recognizing that GPU-intensive workloads significantly affect power consumption and carbon footprint. This dual focus on financial efficiency and environmental responsibility shapes their approach to cloud optimization.

12. Future of Cloud Cost Optimization and Poly Cloud Environments

Looking ahead, Jerzy envisions a poly cloud future, where workloads are distributed across multiple cloud providers for optimal performance and cost-efficiency. He remarks, “[...] the cloud providers are there to listen. [...] it just has to be supported through FinOps and other practices that are not quite needed in on prem” [44:30]. This strategy aligns with industry trends towards diversified cloud infrastructures and enhanced inter-cloud billing visibility through initiatives like the FinOps foundation's focus projects.

13. Conclusion

In conclusion, Jerzy Grzywinski and Brent Segner shed light on the multifaceted challenges and strategies involved in maximizing cloud efficiency. From fostering a culture of cost-conscious engineering to leveraging advanced benchmarking tools and embracing sustainability, Capital One's approach serves as a comprehensive model for enterprises navigating the complexities of cloud optimization. Their insights underscore the importance of balancing innovation with responsibility, ensuring that the cloud remains a catalyst for growth without compromising financial or environmental goals.

Notable Quotes:

• Jerzy Grzywinski [02:37]: “technology brought me to something that has a finance problem statement, but also a technology problem statement.”

• Brent Segner [06:35]: “[...] the time to market for someone to say I need a server to they are actually able to deploy code on that server, let alone that server, be able to talk to anything else was measured in weeks, months and definitely not hours, minutes.”

• Jerzy Grzywinski [08:57]: “Our goal is to get developers to think about what their spend is, because now they do have access to provision and build things in a way that can be efficient or can be very clunky.”

• Brent Segner [15:44]: “Core Mark score allows us to be able to compare apples to apples across instance sizes, instance families, clouds, and even down to bare metal hardware residing in a physical data center.”

• Jerzy Grzywinski [39:18]: “Going into 2025, we have elevated sustainability to be one of our top KPIs that we measure.”

This summary encapsulates the comprehensive discussion between Jerzy Grzywinski and Brent Segner on cloud optimization strategies, challenges, and future directions, offering valuable insights for software engineers and cloud professionals aiming to enhance their cloud efficiency practices.