Podcast Summary: Streamlined React Native Development with Charlie Cheever and James Ide

Podcast Information

• Title: Software Engineering Daily
• Host/Author: Software Engineering Daily
• Description: Technical interviews about software topics.
• Episode: Streamlined React Native Development with Charlie Cheever and James Ide
• Release Date: January 1, 2025

Introduction

In the January 1, 2025 episode of Software Engineering Daily, host Kevin Ball engages in an insightful conversation with Charlie Cheever and James Ide, co-founders of Expo—a leading development framework designed to simplify cross-platform mobile app development using React Native. The discussion delves into the challenges Expo addresses, its technical underpinnings, developer experiences, and future directions in mobile and web development.

Meet the Guests

• Charlie Cheever: A Pittsburgh native with a background in computer science, Charlie has an extensive career working at Amazon and Facebook before co-founding Quora. Frustrated by the complexities of mobile development, he co-founded Expo to streamline the process.

• James Ide: With over a decade collaborating with Charlie, James shares a passion for building tools that empower software engineers. He highlights Expo’s role in enabling unified codebases across platforms, fostering efficiency and coherence in product development.

What is Expo?

Charlie and James introduce Expo as a framework that revolutionizes cross-platform mobile app development. At its core, Expo aims to make building applications for iOS, Android, and web as seamless and efficient as possible by providing a unified codebase and respecting the unique nuances of each platform.

Charlie Cheever [02:10]: "People have an idea of something they want to build and how do we make it so that it's as easy and as fast and efficient as possible to build that at the highest level of quality that you actually want to achieve."

James emphasizes Expo’s ability to deliver truly native applications while maintaining a universal codebase, allowing teams to collaborate without platform-specific silos.

James Ide [03:05]: "We want to enable engineering teams to build apps that are truly native while having a universal code base at the same time."

Expo vs. PhoneGap/Cordova

Host Kevin Ball draws parallels between Expo and earlier frameworks like PhoneGap and Cordova, questioning their similarities and differences. Charlie elucidates Expo’s distinct focus on native performance and user experience, which he felt was lacking in HTML5-based solutions.

Charlie Cheever [04:12]: "There are lots of things where it just doesn't feel right or native to the platform in a mobile context if you're not using the operating system of widgets and you don't have a certain frame rate or level of performance..."

He highlights real-world examples, such as Facebook’s shift from HTML5 to native apps, underscoring the limitations of web-based mobile solutions in delivering delightful user experiences.

Technical Foundations: Building on React Native

James describes Expo as a complementary framework to React Native, enhancing the developer experience by providing additional tools and abstractions.

James Ide [07:33]: "Expo kind of sits adjacent to React Native, it complements it... Expo complements it being like a framework that kind of provides a lot of the developer experience that you'd want when using the React Native technologies."

Charlie draws an analogy to Next.js, positioning Expo as a meta-framework that not only builds applications on React Native but also abstracts the complexities of mobile platforms.

Charlie Cheever [08:12]: "It's a pretty good analogy. People use that a lot. It's not absolutely one to one, not match up perfect, but in like broad strokes, like I think that makes a lot of sense for getting your head around it."

Developer Experience: Modules and Config Plugins

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Expo’s module system and the introduction of config plugins. Charlie explains how Expo simplifies the integration of native modules, allowing developers to extend functionalities without delving into intricate native code setups.

Charlie Cheever [19:49]: "We have a whole spec called the Xmodel spec... allows developers to define a module that calls into some native system functionality and expose it to JavaScript."

James adds that Expo’s approach ensures seamless compatibility with native OS updates, reducing the maintenance burden on developers.

James Ide [13:05]: "We're not trying to maintain parity... Why don't we just use those components? Why don't we make Expo be the easiest way to use the components provided by the native operating systems?"

Expo Services: Enhancing the Core Framework

While Expo is open-source, the company offers a suite of proprietary services that complement the core framework. Charlie discusses services like esbuild, which handle cloud-based builds, eliminating the need for developers to install bulky native development environments like Xcode or Android Studio.

Charlie Cheever [23:15]: "We can actually generate the iOS and Android project directories with all the native code there... It saves a bunch of headaches."

He further elaborates on additional services such as EASubmit, which streamlines app store submissions, and build-specific tools that facilitate team collaboration and deployment processes.

Charlie Cheever [26:25]: "Helping everyone in your company... get a specific version of stuff onto their device... is a bit of a gnarlier problem on mobile..."

Learning Journey: Getting Started with Expo

For developers new to Expo, Charlie outlines a straightforward onboarding process similar to creating a React web app. He recommends starting with Expo Router to leverage familiar React paradigms and quickly achieve tangible progress in app development.

Charlie Cheever [39:29]: "What we are currently most optimized for is basically like, you are a developer who knows React... run create Expo app... use Expo Router because I think it really sets you up for success."

James emphasizes the importance of shared knowledge and reusable code, highlighting how Expo can facilitate the transition from web to mobile development by leveraging existing React expertise.

James Ide [31:06]: "The concepts that really transfer over and also, yeah, parts of the code as well... much of that carries over... the biggest thing though that carries over is a team's knowledge and expertise."

Expo Go and Development Clients

Expo Go is introduced as a development tool that allows developers to preview their apps without undergoing the full build process. However, Charlie notes its limitations when custom native modules are involved.

Charlie Cheever [44:35]: "Expo Go is just an app that has all of the Expo modules in it and nothing else... we have development clients which are closer to production."

Development clients offer a more accurate representation of the final product by incorporating custom native code, bridging the gap between rapid development and production readiness.

Charlie Cheever [44:35]: "Development environment be as close to production as possible... the development clients are just a lot more close to production than Expo Go is."

Future Directions: React Server Components and Unified Development

Looking ahead, Charlie and James share their vision for Expo’s evolution, focusing on integrating React Server Components to enable server-side rendering and seamless data interactions.

James Ide [46:01]: "React Server Components... potentially they're calling directly into server side APIs... a whole solution for developers to take advantage across all platforms."

Charlie adds that Expo aims to further unify web and native development, reducing the friction between teams and fostering a cohesive development environment.

Charlie Cheever [48:10]: "We're really unified with web... getting native components out of it so that... they're just getting a native app on iOS and native app on Android."

Community and Collaboration

Both Charlie and James underscore the importance of community contributions and partnerships in advancing Expo’s mission. They express gratitude towards the open-source community and encourage collaborations to shape the future of cross-platform development.

James Ide [49:35]: "We really want to work together with a lot of others... it's going to take a lot of companies people working together..."

Charlie Cheever [49:52]: "Shout out to the 1600 open source contributors... making the project so much better."

Conclusion

The episode culminates with Charlie and James emphasizing Expo’s commitment to empowering developers by simplifying cross-platform development, enhancing native performance, and fostering a unified codebase. Their vision for Expo extends beyond a mere framework, aiming to redefine how software is built and maintained across mobile and web platforms.

Host [50:16]: "I'm very, very jazzed by the stuff you're doing... they don't feel tacked on. They feel like, oh, it makes sense."

As Expo continues to innovate and expand its offerings, it remains a pivotal tool for developers seeking efficiency, performance, and unity in their cross-platform applications.

Notable Quotes

• Charlie Cheever [02:10]: "People have an idea of something they want to build and how do we make it so that it's as easy and as fast and efficient as possible to build that at the highest level of quality that you actually want to achieve."

• James Ide [03:05]: "We want to enable engineering teams to build apps that are truly native while having a universal code base at the same time."

• Charlie Cheever [04:12]: "There are lots of things where it just doesn't feel right or native to the platform in a mobile context if you're not using the operating system of widgets..."

• James Ide [07:33]: "Expo kind of sits adjacent to React Native, it complements it..."

• Charlie Cheever [08:12]: "It's a pretty good analogy... in broad strokes, like I think that makes a lot of sense for getting your head around it."

• Charlie Cheever [19:49]: "We have a whole spec called the Xmodel spec... allows developers to define a module that calls into some native system functionality and expose it to JavaScript."

• Charlie Cheever [23:15]: "We can actually generate the iOS and Android project directories with all the native code there... It saves a bunch of headaches."

• James Ide [31:06]: "The concepts that really transfer over and also, yeah, parts of the code as well... much of that carries over..."

• Charlie Cheever [39:29]: "You are a developer who knows React... run create Expo app... use Expo Router because I think it really sets you up for success."

• Charlie Cheever [44:35]: "Development environment be as close to production as possible... the development clients are just a lot more close to production than Expo Go is."

• James Ide [46:01]: "React Server Components... potentially they're calling directly into server side APIs..."

• Charlie Cheever [48:10]: "We're really unified with web... getting native components out of it so that... they're just getting a native app on iOS and native app on Android."

• James Ide [49:35]: "We really want to work together with a lot of others... it's going to take a lot of companies people working together..."

• Charlie Cheever [49:52]: "Shout out to the 1600 open source contributors... making the project so much better."

Final Thoughts

Charlie Cheever and James Ide provide a compelling narrative on Expo’s role in simplifying and unifying mobile and web development. Their dedication to enhancing developer experience, coupled with a robust set of services and a thriving community, positions Expo as a transformative force in the software engineering landscape.

If you're a developer looking to streamline your cross-platform app development or a company seeking efficient mobile solutions, Expo offers a comprehensive toolkit designed to accelerate your journey from concept to deployment.