← Somebody Knows Something
Somebody Knows Something
Episode 12 (Bonus Episode) - Reflections & Future Plans
00:37:20
Detectives Andrew Houghton and Matt Vartanian from the Elgin Police Department Cold Case Unit make an announcement for Season Two and introduce a new detective, Chris Hall, as Matt is promoted and leaves the unit. Elgin Police Chief Ana Lalley also...
Loading summary
Transcript127 lines
- [00:00]
Narrator
This podcast is based on information sourced primarily from police and media reports, but certain names and other identifying details may have been changed or altered for privacy and security reasons. While the events and cases discussed are based on real investigations, some aspects may be simplified for time and for narrative purposes. Voice actors have been used to read from statements or documents. All information presented is intended solely to inform and raise awareness. Hosts may discuss theories regarding the cases examined in this podcast, but such discussions are not intended to and should not be considered by the listener to be legal. Conclusions all persons discussed are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Listener discretion is advised.
- [01:02]
Chief Anna Lally
This is Chief Anna Lally. Welcome to Somebody Knows Something, a podcast from the Elgin Police Department's Cold Case Unit. In this podcast, we will shed new light on cold cases in the City of Elgin by sharing untold details and by encouraging anyone with information to come forward. You will come along with real cold case detectives as they investigate active cold cases in real time and seek justice for the victims and closure for their families. We believe that the Elgin Police Department and our community can work together to bring closure to cold cases because we know that in these cases, somebody knows something.
- [01:46]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Hello and welcome to Somebody Knows Something, the Elgin Police Department Cold Case Podcast. My name is Detective Andrew Houghton and.
- [01:53]
Detective Matt Vartanian
I'm Detective Matt Vartanian. This past season we took our listeners along with us as we investigated the 1983 disappearance of 23 year old Karen Shepers. We spent 11 episodes on Karen's case and our season culminated with Karen finally coming home. As we prepared for season two, we thought long and hard about what case or cases we wanted to look at next. Then something really big changed. I got promoted to Sergeant. That means that I will be leaving the unit this summer. Working in this new unit with Andrew, particularly on Karen's case, has been a highlight of my career in law enforcement. Karen's case was an unbelievable story and experience and I want to thank Karen's family, Chief Anna Lally, Andrew and our entire team here at the Elgin Police Department who who helped out with Karen's case. I think that as the Cold Case Unit moves forward, it will continue to be successful as we here at the Elgin Police Department continue to seek justice for victims and their families on these cases.
- [02:57]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Thanks Matt. For me too, it's been a true pleasure to work with you over the past year and who knows, maybe we'll have the opportunity to work together again as the unit continues to develop and grow. Well, with Matt's departure, we now have a new member of the Cold Case Unit and a new co host for this podcast. So I'm pleased to introduce my new partner in the unit and for season two, Detective Chris Hall.
- [03:18]
Detective Chris Hall
Hey, guys.
- [03:19]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Hey, Chris.
- [03:19]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Hey, Chris.
- [03:20]
Detective Chris Hall
It's a true honor to be here with you guys and I'm really looking forward to the challenges that come with cold case work. These cases really do make a difference, and I am looking forward to the new challenges that lay ahead.
- [03:30]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Chris, why don't you tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and your background since you're new to the podcast.
- [03:35]
Detective Chris Hall
Of course. My name is Christopher Hall. I graduated from Marquette University with a degree in criminology and law studies. Been a police officer here in Elgin for over nine years. In my time here at the Elgin Police Department, I've worked primarily in the patrol division's afternoon and night shift units. I am also a former member of the Elgin SWAT team and emergency services detail. I was given the privilege to become a detective in the Major Investigations Division a little over a year ago. Conducting investigations was something I always wanted to do in my career, especially investigations involving violent crimes like homicides. When an opening came up in the Cold Case Unit, I was thrilled to make the transition over. It is a true privilege to be here, and I take enormous pride in working on these cases. The victims and their families deserve a new look into their case with the newest technological advances and investigations, and a fresh perspective into all the events that have transpired up to this point.
- [04:28]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Thanks for sharing, Chris. I'm sure you will continue pushing our unit forward and do a great job in the Cold Case unit. I am hoping at some point to be able to make it back to the unit, but at least for now, I know that I'm leaving the unit in good hands. I wish you both the best on your cases and on season two.
- [04:45]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Thanks, Matt. We'll miss you.
- [04:46]
Detective Chris Hall
Thank you, Sergeant Vartanian.
- [04:55]
Detective Andrew Houghton
For this bonus episode, we want to highlight the changes in the unit and talk about what we're going to be covering in season two of Somebody Knows Something. But first, we felt like it would be appropriate to have Chief Anna Lally appear with us to get her reflections on Karen's case from season one and to hear her thoughts about the podcast and the future of the Cold Case unit. So welcome, Chief Lally. We're happy to have you with us.
- [05:15]
Chief Anna Lally
Hi, guys. Thank you for having me. Yeah. So first, you know, I just want to say thank you to the Elgin community for being an active participant in season one and obviously, you know, the great result that we did have. I also Want to thank WRMN for the work that they do and welcome. You know, Chris, you and to into this crazy thing that you're about to go into.
- [05:39]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Chief, I think the first thing we wanted to ask you about was just kind of your reflections on season one with Karen's case. I know we heard from her family, we heard from her friends and co workers, but what were some of your reflections from the day that we found her and finally located her vehicle that week?
- [05:53]
Chief Anna Lally
You know, having two really great detectives, you know, Matt and you, Andrew and you guys really, you know, taking. Taking something that a lot of departments wouldn't do and really changing the narrative of what police work looks like, you know, in 2025. And so, you know, that day when we did eventually find her vehicle and the week after that and the weeks that led up to, even the weeks leading up to when we were out there, I think it really was something that. That you could see the synergy of what we were trying to do. And, you know, it's this concept of a cold case unit. And then how does that actually work? And then, you know, it's really putting the right people in the right place. It's having the, you know, the innovation to think something that's very different and to believe in it, to be optimistic, to think that it's going to work and then it's supporting the people in those positions. And, you know, you guys absolutely did the work. You know, I'm in the background making sure that you're getting what you need with resources and, you know, pushing out the community, you know, information and talking about it. But I think that day you saw everybody kind of come together and truly understand what most people who become police officers, this is what you become a police officer for. And really, truly, when you spend your time on things that matter. So, you know, I tell a lot of young officers, you know, when they get into this profession, you know, those little irritations that might happen each day, you're never going to remember that. You're going to remember it that day, maybe that week. But what you're gonna remember is when you truly change someone's life for the better, and you did it because you could, and you did it because you had the opportunity that a lot of people don't get. So seeing that and seeing everyone being invested and you could feel it in the department, you could feel the energy. It was very different.
- [07:42]
Co-Host
Right?
- [07:42]
Chief Anna Lally
It's, you know, the Elgin Police Department, absolutely great men and women that work there and, you know, police work, there's you eb. It ebbs, it flows, you ride the wave. Sometimes you realize, like, you know, it's. It's gonna be a little rough, and then it gets a little bit better and. But definitely, like, you could feel it, and you can still feel that energy. I mean, you feel it, you know, as we're about to launch, you know, season two, and. And people are excited for it. And again, you know, I think in all of that, whether it was the public accolades that people, you know, received, and I know I joke with you and Matt and say you guys need publicists now and, you know, and you guys are superstars and, you know, Chris is about to walk into that right now, and. And. But I think all of that did not matter. What really, truly matters is that we were able to do something for the sheeper's family. And that is such a great gift that they gave us. And so, you know, I was just truly, you know, very proud of the police department. Very proud of you and Matt. Very proud of just the work and the humane side of policing. And I think that people really, through the podcast, they saw, and I heard a lot of people comment about just how you guys were in the podcast and. And how you were very, you know, different than what people expected police officers to be and that you connected with the family. And it was genuine. You know, people will feel if you're dis. Genuine. And I think that the way you guys approached it had nothing to do with your training, your experience, your knowledge. That was just you as Andrew and Matt, as two humans. And I think that. That truly, you know, there is no doubt that that had something to do with the success of the. Of what happened and being able to. To find Karen and give her family a sense of peace. Yeah.
- [09:23]
Detective Andrew Houghton
I don't think if we had. If we had not involved the family the way we did, I don't think we would have had the outcome. We did, like, you get a lot more buy in because they were so open to doing it, and we had a good relationship with them throughout the process, so.
- [09:35]
Chief Anna Lally
Absolutely. And we, you know, we were, you know, for the first case, I think the expectation is, you know, because here's the other side of it, right. The expectation has been set. You know, if this. If we launched this podcast and, you know, we didn't find Karen in this case, you know, season one, you know, it comes and it goes. It still is a great thing. Right, because it's generating leads and you're trying to do something. You guys would continue that work. But I think the expectation for me, it was very simple that, you know, I'm truly just an optimist, very optimistic person. And never, never once it was. You guys weren't going to figure it. It was always, you're going to solve it, you're going to do it. I mean, it was just that, that confidence in you guys that, you know, I, you know, I think when you put that kind of, you know, energy into the universe, this is what happens. If you're sitting there thinking from, from day one, oh, my God, we have these hurdles and how are we going to do this? And what if this. That absolutely will, you know, impact your view? And so I think, you know, just having that you guys got it, you know, you're going to do it, you're going to solve it. It's a high expectation. But I think you guys, um, you know, whether that's a motivation for you or it was just something that, you know, we're, we're. I'm in your corner supporting you guys and saying, you know, you are, you, you are the right people in the room. You're smart, you know, your, your personalities, and then you get the community on board and then you get people involved and you get the department involved and people kind of see how this evolves. And I think, you know, it's truly, I've said it, it's once in a lifetime that will happen in a career. However, as we launch, you know, season two, maybe it's not once in a life, right? Like this is where you have to kind of, here's the optimism, you know, it could be maybe, you know, five times in a lifetime.
- [11:15]
Co-Host
Right.
- [11:15]
Chief Anna Lally
We'll see.
- [11:15]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Hopefully so.
- [11:16]
Chief Anna Lally
Yes, hopefully.
- [11:18]
Detective Chris Hall
You know, Chief Matt and Andrew briefly touched on this in season one, but what do you see as the value of having a full time cold case unit here in Elgin?
- [11:26]
Chief Anna Lally
Yeah, so, you know, I've talked about the cold case unit and wanting to start a unit for quite some time. And, and you know, I've been in the police department. I'm in my 30th year and you know, at one point I was a sergeant in our major investigations division. And I love the, the reason why I became a police officer was to truly do something to change the world. And people think, well, that's so cheesy. Do people really believe that? Yes, I believe it every single day, no matter what is happening. But I love the investigative side of things. And so I loved being, you know, in the detective division and, you know, but I would see these case files and they're Just sitting there and families and people and what happened and all these questions. And I always, you know, it's like, we need to do something with that. So eventually, right? When, you know, you become the chief, now you can. Now you can do it. Right now it's a matter of, you know, talking to the right people and, you know, getting, you know, I truly appreciate, you know, my city manager, Rick Kozol and his support. He never tells me no, for the most part.
- [12:24]
Co-Host
Right.
- [12:24]
Chief Anna Lally
And. And that's how things happen, right? Getting. Being able to allocate resources, people, time. And so, you know, the value is, is the ability to give the community what they absolutely deserve from the. From a progressive, professional police department, which is peace, a sense of justice, a sense of, you know, the department didn't forget about me. You know, I, I've said before, too, the victims are the unforgotten people in the criminal justice system, and we are the victims advocates, and we are the family's advocates. And so having this full time cold case unit and allocating time and dedicating resources and spending time on the things that matter, right? This matters, you know, the, the ability to, you know, solve a case that sat for 40 years and to have those conversations with the family, you know, you truly change lives. And, and so for me, you know, it's on to the next evolution. You know, we, we. This case is solved. You know, you guys kind of took a little bit of a break, right? Because I think you guys were a little overwhelmed because you could see it. I think you guys were in shock at first, like, oh, my God. And, you know, now, you know, and my thing is, you guys do your thing. But now onto the next, right? We are. This is. This is what we do here at the Elgin Police Department. You know, we are continuously trying to be better, continuously challenging ourselves, continuously setting the bar high for one reason, to make sure that the community has the best police department. And they truly realize that we are people that care about, you know, about solving cases and giving a sense of peace and closure, but also, you know, not being afraid to do things differently. And I think the podcast and saw and starting a cold case unit, you know, because I, you know, I did. I heard the chatter when we first started the cold case unit. Oh, you're allocating resources to, you know, why do we do. Why do we need to do this? And all that is great, right? When you have the critics, because it makes you think and it makes you push harder. But you have to believe in something and you have to truly believe it. At the core of why you're doing it, and then you get the right people in the right positions, and then you see what happens. So for me, you know, the benefit is. Is definitely something that I think we've displayed, and I think the bar is just set really high now, and it's. And it's our responsibility to meet that bar.
- [14:45]
Detective Chris Hall
Yeah, no pressure at all for me. I'm. Yeah, I'm beyond excited to be joining the Cold Case Unit, working these cases with Andrew and like Andrew and Matt in season one. I have never done a podcast before, so I'm definitely in uncharted waters, but I'm, you know, full steam ahead here. Chief, what gave you the idea to have us launch this podcast?
- [15:07]
Chief Anna Lally
Yeah, I think it was just basically, you know, thinking of something different and being, you know, being one of the first. I. People are afraid to be the first of something because of the criticism. And so when you do something, you know, you are going to open yourself up to criticism, and I love that. I think we thrive in that environment because I think, you know, you really, truly, you know, want to do something to get people involved. You know, we could do the traditional things. We push things out on social media. We talk about it. Maybe there's a couple newspaper articles. But how do you involve people to. In today's world? And how do people hear their news and what medium is it being delivered in and how can you connect at that level? And I think that the podcast was just something I. I'm not a huge podcast. I don't listen to podcasts. I mean, every now and then, so it wasn't a huge, you know, but I love the technology part of. Of police work, as long as you do it in a smart way.
- [16:07]
Co-Host
Right.
- [16:08]
Chief Anna Lally
Effective way. And so for me, it was something to, you know, you have two detectives. You know, you guys are. I mean, I'm a little bit older than you, but I'm not that much older. I want to get that on the record here in this podcast.
- [16:20]
Co-Host
Right.
- [16:20]
Chief Anna Lally
So it's not a foreign concept, too, to me, but I think you get people who, you know, and this is part of being in tune with what's happening in law enforcement when you do have young police officers who are in their 20s, and this is how they grew up, this is how they get their information.
- [16:36]
Co-Host
Right?
- [16:36]
Chief Anna Lally
Like, some people don't actually read books. They read, you know, whether it's a Kindle or on their. On their iPad or, you know, so. Or they're listening to an audio book. So it's like, you have to, you know, cater to those mediums to get more people involved. And when you do that and try to think of something, you know, I. And again, I said it. I don't think of the whole concept of, you know, the there. You know, think outside the box. To me, there is no box.
- [17:00]
Co-Host
Right.
- [17:00]
Chief Anna Lally
Like, I love the Matrix. If you're a fan of the Matrix, you know, and the scene with the spoon.
- [17:06]
Co-Host
Right.
- [17:06]
Chief Anna Lally
There is no spoon.
- [17:07]
Co-Host
Right.
- [17:08]
Chief Anna Lally
So. And so for me, I love that. Like, it's just, you know, I'm a huge. Probably geek and nerd, and that's probably coming off like that, and I really don't care. But I think, to me, it was just like, how can we do this differently still, you know, keeping our roots and history of a police department and the, you know, the traditional ways of policing, but how do we now evolve it. And we evolve it to get more people involved and ultimately look at the reach that we had. So I think, you know, and you guys were just the right guys to. To accept it. You know, you. I mean, a little bit hesitant at first.
- [17:41]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah.
- [17:41]
Chief Anna Lally
But you guys got on board because you're smart. I mean, even when I said I was like, okay, you guys will be fine. Right? Because I know that, you know, it's. It's unnerving for people to speak publicly. I think that was part of it.
- [17:51]
Co-Host
Right.
- [17:52]
Chief Anna Lally
But for me, that's not unnerving. That's what I do as a police chief. So it was not to me, I'm thinking, well, these guys, they. They should just do that too.
- [17:59]
Co-Host
Right?
- [18:00]
Chief Anna Lally
So. And you guys knocked it out of the park. So I think it was a. It was a great, you know, concept that, you know, that I just placed the. The, you know, the idea into your guys's head, and then you guys ran with it, and it did an amazing job.
- [18:14]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah, I think Matt and I said before that it was, you know, we were a little apprehensive to do it and to step into this kind of space because we've never done that before. But once we kind of did, it was really the natural progression of, you know, you put faces on milk cartons, you do billboards, you do newspaper articles, you do social media. Like, this was the next progression in that kind of way to get information out to people, I think, and it really helped us highlight victims from cases, get the community involved. What are your thoughts on the nexus between our philosophy at the department as it relates to community engagement and then the podcast kind of, you know, merging those two things together?
- [18:48]
Chief Anna Lally
I think it's just the next evolution of, you know, the philosophy of community engagement that the Elgin Police Department has had ever since I was a brand new officer. You know, we. We have just. And I think people don't understand. People understand community engagement, but they don't, I think, really realize the value until something like this. And, you know, when you have people, officers that you have to know your community in order to effectively police your community, it's as simple as that. The community does not owe the police department anything. It is always on us to extend our hand to the community and to be, you know, empathetic, to listen to someone's different perspective, to truly want to change, to make things better. And that's lifting listening on both sides. The people who are your critics and the people who really, you know, they love you no matter what you do. The balance is the middle. And so for me, you know, community engagement has always been something that, you know, every police chief that has come before me has done something to progress it. So it's my responsibility to ensure that when, you know, when I do leave and the next police chief that steps into my place, that they're left with a department where the officers know their community, that they care about their community, that they're invested in coming. You know, this is not a job. This is our profession. And so for me, you know, community engagement. And then really, when you. You know, when you get to know people in the community and. And you talk to them, even if they have some issue with the department.
- [20:13]
Co-Host
Right.
- [20:14]
Chief Anna Lally
They're in that conversation. As long as they know that you're listening and you're truly genuine, that's a great way to change that narrative. So five, ten years from now, you're having a whole generation of young adults, young kids that grew up knowing that the Elgin Police Department was listening, was open. And it changes the narrative of police work, which, you know, it's. It's all connected. You know, officers that come to work, they know their community values them, they feel a sense of purpose in their profession. They perform better, they feel better, then they go home and they have a better home life.
- [20:47]
Co-Host
Right?
- [20:48]
Chief Anna Lally
All that works together. And that doesn't mean that you're not going to have critics or you're not going to have a hard day. Like I said, you got to ride the wave. Sometimes it's hard, sometimes it's not easy. It's not fun. But eventually, if the core of what you believe is to make, and this is what I believe, is to make the department better and to make the community better. And underwriting all of that is the philosophy of the people that we serve, that we truly protect and serve. So those things that are on our police vehicles that said we protect and serve, right? Then these, when you raise your hand and you're gonna get sworn in as an officer and you're gonna uphold the constitution and all this stuff, those words actually mean something. And I think that the officers that get that and get that early on in their career, they are very open minded to continue to try different things to enhance our community engagement philosophy.
- [21:37]
Detective Chris Hall
Yeah, absolutely. Moving forward, Chief, what are your long term goals for this podcast and how do you actually measure success of a podcast like this?
- [21:48]
Chief Anna Lally
Yeah, so success, you know, it's diff, it's very difficult. Success. Obviously the outcome is we found, you know, we solved the case, we found Karen. But I think if that outcome never happened, there's still a success story there. It's. We did something different. We were able to find some answers, we were able to get the community involved. We were looking at a case that sat, you know, sat cold for 40 years. So I think the success is just the progress. You know, luck is not a strategy, right? It wasn't luck that we found her. There was a little bit of luck in terms of, you know, where to go look. But what had led up to you guys deciding, we're going to go to the Fox river and we're going to do that, that wasn't luck, right? That was hard work, dedication, professionalism, your intelligence, your knowledge. Luck is never a strategy unless you're buying a lottery ticket. And then that is truly just luck. So, you know, for me, I think the, you know, long term goals for the podcast and the success is just to continue to evolve and continue to, you know, dedicate our time to be flexible on how we're, you know, delivering this podcast and being responsive to when we're getting feedback from the community. You know, I've been asked by a lot of people, can you guys do a, an episode once a week? And I remember telling you that and you're like, oh, like, and you can't, right? Because it's just a lot. And so it's a lot of work. But I, you know, I'm gonna deliver the message to you guys. So you guys know, hey, this is kind of what the people are saying, but, you know, being flexible and being responsive and I think making sure that everyone that's involved, and this is the other thing too, when, when the history of the police department, you will see a Lot of times people forget the history. Somebody started a program, somebody did this, and then as time goes on, people forget who were the pioneers who did that. So when we first launched this podcast, and I said, you and Matt will be the true pioneers in this.
- [23:42]
Co-Host
Right.
- [23:43]
Chief Anna Lally
So 30 years from now when you're retired, you know, hopefully not that long from now, but.
- [23:47]
Co-Host
Right.
- [23:48]
Chief Anna Lally
Um, you know, and now here comes Chris.
- [23:50]
Co-Host
Right.
- [23:50]
Chief Anna Lally
So, you know, we're still kind of in the infancy of this, and you guys will be the pioneers. You will be the people that the, you know, next generation of officers come in and they say, wow, look what those guys did. Now I'm inspired to do something. So. And it's always important that we record that history and remember that history and then find the success in the outcomes, which may not necessarily be being a case being solved, but it's, you know, a family that feels listened to, it's an officer that feels that they, you know, there's truly a higher calling in this profession that they've now reached. And now it's the mentorship that you'll give young detectives. You know, you're going to be leading Chris along on this next journey in the podcast. And, you know, you're the pro now, right? You're. And. And people are going to look at you like. And, and it's a lot of something like that. Something like that. Yes. But, you know, I think when you, you know, when you put that into the world, into the universe, you know, you guys are going to absolutely just, you know, you're going to do great. So I'm excited for this next season and what we do here.
- [24:51]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah, there's a. David Simon wrote a book called Homicide Life on the street, and he did the Wire. People watch that show, but he had a bunch of different rules of homicide. One was, it's good to be good, it's better to be lucky.
- [25:00]
Chief Anna Lally
Yes.
- [25:01]
Detective Andrew Houghton
I think you kind of need a little bit of both. Right. You need to be good and then also have some luck that kind of comes your way.
- [25:06]
Chief Anna Lally
Yes.
- [25:06]
Detective Andrew Houghton
And that's how I feel like our last season kind of went, was we did a lot of work, but we also got lucky in a couple different things, and things just kind of came together in a perfect way. But, you know, doing season one, Matt and I learned a lot about dealing with the media and coordinating with other agencies, coordinating with civilians, working with victims, families, all those different things. Are there any lessons that you can kind of give us from your higher level perspective that we learned from the first season?
- [25:30]
Chief Anna Lally
Yeah, I think to me, it was just a really. It was a pleasure to be able to see young officers and detectives see the things that, you know, I've been kind of saying and the command staff has been saying about working with our community and working with the media. Because a lot of times in police work, especially, you know, four or five years ago, when the narrative of police work was not good and it was very difficult for officers to keep that motivation. And so. And in that, you know, it, I'm. As the police chief, you're dealing with the media, you're working with the media, you're working with the community, right? Having those harder conversations, sitting down with people who were very different and, you know, sometimes being criticized because I was doing that. And so when I saw this kind of like, aha. Moment where, hey, we can leverage these relationships and we can build these relationships, and we don't always have to agree with each other philosophically or whatever. But when I saw that and you see it actually happening, like, where, you know, you guys were like, we're going on this radio show. We're going on. We're going on the news. A live show on the news. I was like, go, right? I mean, I never went with you guys. There was no reason for me to go, right? Like, I'm not the police chief that wants to be front and center and this. Do your thing, right? I support you. I'm in the background. Because for me, it was like to see you guys doing that and to, you know, really embrace it. And now kind of. Not that you didn't before, but I think when you're actually doing it and you see it while you're doing it, it's so different. And I think that that set a standard for young officers, right? And for the department to see the media is not an enemy, right? Community, people that think differently. And so that kind of perspective that, you know, that you do have when you're at, you know, an administrative level, you know, and sometimes it's hard to tell. People, look, because they don't believe it. They don't experience it. So for me, it was just a. It was just a huge. You know, I was smiling a lot. I would just say that every time when I saw you guys on the news, I was smiling. I was like. And you guys were so great at it, right? And so sometimes I think that, you know, the lesson there was never be afraid to do the things that you may be criticized for or that you will be the outlier, right? When you're the outlier, it's it's not. It's not an easy place to be. But never be afraid because two, three years from now, what's going to happen? And when you look back and you're like, I did that.
- [27:59]
Co-Host
Right.
- [28:00]
Chief Anna Lally
And, wow, like, what a difference it made. So. And you got to be the first.
- [28:04]
Co-Host
Right.
- [28:04]
Chief Anna Lally
You have to be the one that says, so now you guys are media pros.
- [28:07]
Detective Andrew Houghton
I mean, it was definitely a crash course.
- [28:09]
Chief Anna Lally
Yes.
- [28:10]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Media relations.
- [28:11]
Chief Anna Lally
Yes.
- [28:11]
Detective Andrew Houghton
You know, from probably January, we did one interview, and then it skyrocketed from there, and it was just a really, really big crash course and figuring out how to navigate doing that.
- [28:23]
Chief Anna Lally
And it's hard to. Because you're on the spot. Right. Like, a lot of times, too, for me.
- [28:26]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah. When you're live.
- [28:27]
Chief Anna Lally
Yeah. When you're live and you're on, come.
- [28:28]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Up with an answer.
- [28:29]
Chief Anna Lally
And for me, anytime that opportunity came, I'm not talking about something difficult. Right. Like when you're in a position where you have to talk about an officer involved shooting or police reform, or you're at the city council and you're getting the bombardment of questions, that, to me, is very different. And that's the stuff that, you know, I do in my profession. So when I had to sit and talk about the cult, I'm like, I love this. Like, we could do this all day. Because it's so. It was. It's just more, you know, pleasurable than having to talk about some of the harder stuff. But I think it's a nervousness business thing, too.
- [28:57]
Co-Host
Right.
- [28:57]
Chief Anna Lally
People are like, you know, am I going to be criticized for what I say, how I speak, what I think? Because when you reveal what you truly think and believe, now people know and can criticize that.
- [29:07]
Co-Host
Right.
- [29:08]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Well, they don't give you. And they don't give you the questions they're going to ask you.
- [29:12]
Co-Host
No.
- [29:12]
Detective Andrew Houghton
It was basically like, walk in, sit down. I will be with you in three minutes. In three minutes, they come over and it's boom, boom, boom, boom. Here's your questions. And you kind of are like, okay. And then you're done.
- [29:20]
Chief Anna Lally
Yes.
- [29:20]
Detective Andrew Houghton
And you're kind of right off the, you know, flying off the seat, your pants a little bit, just going, okay, I got to answer this question.
- [29:26]
Chief Anna Lally
And you guys did great. You did absolutely great. And again, I think that goes back to just who you are as professionals. And, you know, as we transition from, you know, Matt leaving the unit, as he gets promoted now to a sergeant, and he's on to this next phase in his career. And as Chris enters in, you Know, this cold case, you know, it is something that, you know, obviously, as a police chief, you're running a whole entire organization, but this is like something that. There's just a little extra something there that I'm like, this is. Like, this is. This has to be done the right way because. And so inviting, you know, having the right personality, right? You have to have a right personality that comes in. And Chris, I think you're going to be awesome. You're gonna just, you know, you're gonna learn so much. You're gonna be involved in so much. And I, you know, I truly. You have a great mentor with Andrew because you got to have the right. Right personality.
- [30:18]
Co-Host
Right.
- [30:19]
Chief Anna Lally
If you're somebody that just is very standoffish, how are you going to connect with the family?
- [30:23]
Co-Host
Right.
- [30:23]
Chief Anna Lally
If somebody, you know, if you don't. If you're constantly looking that you're mad because your face just. You never smile, people are like, I can't talk to this person. Right. So that's part of the secret sauce.
- [30:33]
Co-Host
Right?
- [30:33]
Chief Anna Lally
It's. It's who you put in these positions and how. Then how I can support you and let you guys do your thing, you know, and. And really, again, you know, I'm just really excited for this next season and for you to be in the unit.
- [30:47]
Detective Chris Hall
Chief, all I can say is I appreciate that. Humble is an understatement. And again, I appreciate your words. The last thing that we wanted to ask you about was where do you see the Elgin Police Department's cold case unit five years from now?
- [31:02]
Chief Anna Lally
Yeah. So, as you know, very. I would just say it's evolving. You know, we're in the process of, you know, now getting you guys an office space. Right. We went from a room to now a dedicated space. So I think, you know, as we move forward, we're going to add another detachment detective in this next few months, hopefully getting a sergeant into the unit now. And just, you know, the goal is to. When you think about it, what. What's the. What's the end game here? Not to have any cold cases.
- [31:30]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah.
- [31:30]
Co-Host
Right.
- [31:31]
Chief Anna Lally
So. But that's not going to happen overnight. So five years from now.
- [31:35]
Co-Host
Right.
- [31:35]
Chief Anna Lally
My hope is that that unit has just absolutely exploded. We're training other agencies, we're sharing our knowledge. We're being, you know, the ambassadors to our profession when it comes specifically to cold cases. And then we're solving cases.
- [31:48]
Co-Host
Right.
- [31:49]
Chief Anna Lally
And no, the number one thing, too, is just being able to have families that feel that they're. They're seen, that they're heard that they're seen and that this is not, you know, this is not a transactional relationship.
- [32:05]
Co-Host
Right.
- [32:05]
Chief Anna Lally
A lot of things that we do in life, very transactional.
- [32:07]
Co-Host
Right.
- [32:07]
Chief Anna Lally
You got to do this. I got to do this. On to the next. This is not that. This is something that, you know, I'm sure, you know, Andrew, some time has gone and you think about. I've heard some of your interviews and, and with you and Matt and just kind of you. You both reflect very deeply on how this impacted you in your life.
- [32:25]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah.
- [32:25]
Co-Host
Right.
- [32:26]
Chief Anna Lally
And it's a. Now it's your responsibility to do that for the next generation of law enforcement so that they have that feeling, you know, and so I think that this, this unit is just going to get bigger and better, and I'm extremely excited for it. You know, it's. It's. It's something that I love seeing it actually happen. And so I really want to thank you, Andrew and Matt, you know, for the work that you do. Wrmn again, you know, as I close out here, wrmn, for the work that they do, the community, the Karen Sheepers family. What a gracious family. You know, unbelievable. And welcome. You know, Chris, you into. Into this, into this crazy thing that you're about to go into. So, you know, it's going to be exciting and, and I look forward to seeing you on, on the news and your first interview and you're gonna knock it out of the park. So. So, yeah, so thank you guys for having me and, you know, on to the next.
- [33:19]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah, thank you for coming on with us, Chief. We, we appreciate you taking your time to come over with us again. I think without you pushing Matt and me and now Chris to do this podcast, you know, the podcast obviously wouldn't exist. We wouldn't have a cold case unit. We wouldn't have Karen's case closed. We'd just still be working our cases and they'd be sitting on a shelf somewhere. So. So it really is making a difference. I'm excited to see where we continue to take it as we kind of try to expand here.
- [33:43]
Chief Anna Lally
Absolutely. My pleasure. Thank you, guys.
- [33:45]
Detective Chris Hall
Yes. Thank you, Chief. And now that we've reflected on season one, where's Karen? And talked about the future of the podcast and this unit as a whole. I think it's now time to talk a little bit about what we have in store for season two.
- [34:06]
Detective Andrew Houghton
One big lesson we learned from season one was that recording a podcast and preparing a case takes a lot of time. Plus, Chris and I are actively working several cold case Homicides that are not appropriate for a podcast at this point. With the changes that we're experiencing in the unit and the extensive work we're doing on those active cases, we're going to make a slight deviation for season two.
- [34:26]
Detective Chris Hall
Yeah. While we're hoping to return more serialized format in a future season with another case in the interim, we want to make sure that we keep our cold case victims memories alive. So as we sit down and Prepare for season two, we discussed a lot about a case from 1976 which, oddly enough, had links to Karen's disappearance. And we came up with this idea.
- [34:46]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah. So we talked a lot about a 1976 disappearance of a girl named Barbara Gluert. Kind of behind the scenes. When we were doing season one, the prime suspect in her disappearance, Thomas Erlacher, actually lived in Karen's apartment just before she moved in. And one of our theories from season one was that something could have happened to Karen at her apartment. We now know that that is not the case. But it got Chris and I kind of thinking that we could shine a light on some of these older cases in our case file and keep those cases alive, bring those victims kind of back to life in our media, and also seek some tips from our old cases as we continue to work on other cases and select another more serialized season. Hopefully in the future, our listeners will.
- [35:23]
Detective Chris Hall
Remember that we currently have 41 homicides dating back all the way to 1971. So we thought that in the spirit of memorializing all of our victims, we would start at the beginning by discussing and remembering our victims from our 1970s cases.
- [35:38]
Detective Andrew Houghton
We're calling season two, Elgin, the 1970s. And in this season, Chris and I will dive back into our cold case files for the Elgin Police Department. And we will release information for five homicides that occurred here in Elgin between 1970 and 1979. And we will also discuss Barbara Glueckert's case from 1976 because it has a lot of ties to Elgin and. And because Matt and I met with a detective for that case when we were working on season one. Hopefully we can use this platform to explore other cases, remember the victims, and seek new information for their cases.
- [36:08]
Detective Chris Hall
So please join us for season two, which launches on Monday, August 11, 2025. Our hope is that as we look at these cold case homicides, people will remember the victims in these cases while they are gone. They are certainly not forgotten by their families and friends or by others.
- [36:24]
Chief Anna Lally
Us.
- [36:24]
Detective Chris Hall
We want to make sure that people in our community hear their stories and remember them, too, because we know that in all of our cases, somebody knows something.
- [36:38]
Chief Anna Lally
If you or anyone you know has information about this case or any other cold case in Elgin, please contact the Elgin Police Department Cold case email@coldcasetipselginil.gov or the cold case tip line at 847289. Cold. You can also review cold case information on the Elgin Police Department's Transparency Hub by going to Elginil.gov and navigating to the Elgin Police Department's transparency hub, where every cold case, homicide and missing persons case is listed with photographs and information about each case.