Episode 3 - A Desperate Choice

Summary

Summary of "Somebody Knows Something" – Episode 3: A Desperate Choice

Released on February 17, 2025

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Introduction to Theory One: A Desperate Choice

In Episode 3 of Somebody Knows Something, Detectives Andrew Houghton and Matt Vartanian delve into the first of six overarching theories surrounding the mysterious disappearance of Karen Schepers in April 1983. Titled "A Desperate Choice," this episode scrutinizes the possibility that Karen voluntarily left her life behind or may have harmed herself.

Exploring the Voluntary Departure Theory

Detective Matt Vartanian introduces Theory One by revisiting initial speculations from 1983, suggesting that Karen might have "taken off to blow off some steam" after an argument with her boyfriend (02:27). Chief Anna Lally adds that this theory was expanded to include the potential that Karen "made a voluntary choice to either leave or to harm herself in some way" (02:50).

Family Insights: Unlikely to Leave or Harm Herself

The detectives interviewed several of Karen's family members, providing compelling evidence against Theory One. Gary, Karen's older brother, firmly states, "She was tough... You're not gonna ruin my life or anything like that" (05:39). Susan, her younger sister, concurs, expressing doubt that Karen would simply "up and take off without telling anybody" (05:48).

Detective Houghton reinforces this sentiment, noting, "She was a very responsible person... I don't think that all these years would go by when you didn't at some point, reach back out to your mom and say, you know, I had to get away" (06:05). The family's belief is further supported by Karen's meticulous financial habits; her bank account remained untouched after her disappearance, suggesting she had no intention of starting anew elsewhere (07:18).

Karen's Social Ties: A Strong Reason to Stay

Friends and co-workers also weigh in, unanimously dismissing the idea of Karen running away or harming herself. Heidi, a close friend from high school, recalls Karen's commitment to her upcoming wedding: "Karen had just gotten paid on Friday, April 15, and had received her tax return of over a thousand dollars. None of her money had ever been touched" (07:36).

Detective Andrew Houghton shares heartfelt memories, emphasizing Karen's dependable nature: "She wasn't a free-spirited hippie type person that you could see going off to some commune or whatever and not saying anything to anybody" (07:02). Denise, another close friend, describes Karen as "very friendly, very outgoing... Just a beautiful girl from the Midwest" (11:10).

Co-workers' Collective Voice Against Theory One

The episode highlights a poignant moment when nearly 40 of Karen's co-workers signed an open letter disputing the notion of her voluntary disappearance. Dated April 21, 1983, the letter asserts, "None of us believe that Karen was despondent or had any reason to disappear" (20:31). This collective stance underscores the conviction among those who knew Karen that her disappearance was not voluntary.

The Elusive Car: A Tangible Clue

Detectives discuss the mysterious disappearance of Karen's car, a critical piece in evaluating Theory One. The car's absence complicates the notion that Karen simply left town. Both detectives note, "If her car was found at Terry's house or at her house or was found abandoned somewhere, that would totally change the different theories we had about this case" (25:01).

Despite extensive searches, including flying over salvage yards and distributing her vehicle's VIN and license plate information nationwide, the car remains missing (25:13). This unresolved detail casts significant doubt on the voluntary departure theory.

Psychological Factors: No Indicators of Self-Harm

Further discrediting Theory One is the absence of any signs pointing to Karen harboring suicidal intentions. Detective Vartanian remarks, "She had a strong social structure... She was in constant contact with people in her life" (26:04). The lack of evidence suggesting mental health struggles or substance abuse reinforces the improbability of Karen harming herself.

Emotional Toll on Detectives and Family

Detectives share the profound emotional impact Karen's disappearance has had on both their personal lives and the community. Detective Houghton reflects, "I can't even explain it... I don't know if it's ever anything that you ever get over" (15:40). The unwavering hope and resilience of Karen's mother, who has maintained contact through years of unanswered questions, exemplify the enduring search for closure.

Conclusion: Theory One Deemed Highly Unlikely

After thorough examination, Detectives Houghton and Vartanian conclude that Theory One—Karen making a desperate voluntary choice or harming herself—is "highly unlikely but not impossible" (28:04). The combination of Karen's stable financial situation, strong social ties, and the unexplained disappearance of her car strongly suggests that other theories warrant more substantial consideration.

Looking Ahead: Investigating What Happened at PM Bentley's

The episode concludes with a preview of the next installment, which will focus on PM Bentley's, the last known location where Karen was seen. Detectives will explore interactions with the bar's staff and owner, and investigate claims from an individual who purportedly saw Karen both inside and outside the establishment on the night she vanished (28:29).

Call to Action

Detectives Houghton and Vartanian reiterate their appeal for public assistance in solving Karen's case. They encourage anyone with information to contact the Elgin Police Department Cold Case Unit via email at [e-mail] or by phone at 1-847-289-COLD. Additionally, listeners can review all cold case information on the Elgin Police Department's Transparency Hub at https://elginil.gov.

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This summary captures the key discussions and insights from Episode 3, providing an in-depth overview for those who have yet to listen. Notable quotes are included to highlight pivotal moments and testimonies that shape the investigation.

Transcript

[Chief Anna Lally]

This podcast is based on information sourced primarily from police and media reports, but certain names and other identifying details may have been changed or altered for privacy and security reasons. While the events and cases discussed are based on real investigations, some aspects may be simplified for time and for narrative purposes. Voice actors have been used to read from statements or documents. All information presented is intended solely to inform and raise awareness. Hosts may discuss theories regarding the cases examined in this podcast, but such discussions are not intended to and should not be considered by the listener to be legal.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Conclusions.

[Chief Anna Lally]

All persons discussed are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Listener discretion is advised. This is Chief Anna Lally. Welcome to Somebody Knows Something, a podcast.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

From the Elgin Police Department's Cold Case Unit.

[Chief Anna Lally]

In this podcast, we will shed new light on cold cases in the city of Elgin by sharing untold details and by encouraging anyone with information to come forward. You will come along with real cold case detectives as they investigate active cold cases in real time and seek justice for the victims and closure for their families. We believe that the Elgin Police Department and our community can work together to bring closure to cold cases because we know that in these cases, somebody knows something. Welcome to Somebody Knows Something Elgin Police Department Cold Case Podcast. I'm Detective Andrew Houghton.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

And I'm Detective Matt Vartanian. In our first two episodes, we walked through the hours leading up to Karen sheper's disappearance on April 16th of 1983 and provided our six overarching theories about what could have happened to Karen. We also spoke to multiple members of Karen's family to get to know Karen. Now it's time to start our investigation into our theories and discuss each one. In this episode, we look at theory number one. Karen made a desperate choice.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah. So I know we talked. Matt, Theory one kind of came from the original idea that some people in law enforcement had back in 83.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah.

[Chief Anna Lally]

And that was that Karen just. She just took off. She went to blow off some steam. Maybe she got in an argument with her boyfriend and picked up roots and left voluntarily. Obviously, she never came back. So we have to look at the idea at least that, you know, she just took off on her own.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah.

[Chief Anna Lally]

We also decided to expand that theory and include the option that Karen made a different choice, which would be somehow harming herself, and kind of made that into one theory.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

So it's.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Karen made a voluntary choice to either leave or to harm herself in some way.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

You know, Andrew, I think. I think we should start by saying that it is really important. Our goal is to give every theory equal Attention and not immediately discount any option, even if it sounds unlikely. You know, the way police typically get themselves into trouble during an investigation is they focus on one theory or suspect, and then they fit evidence around that person or that theory. You know, so we are going to do the reverse and consider every option and let the evidence and the facts guide us to the most likely scenario or scenarios.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think one thing you want to do in a cold case, and it's kind of tedious, it's not really exciting, is go back through the case, identify every person who was involved in some way, no matter how large or how small. And that includes people like witnesses, people of interest, police officers, investigators, and other people associated with those people. At this point, I mean, we're talking about, like, well over 100 people in this case, right?

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah. So once we reviewed the case file, we started identifying those people we wanted to talk to. And like you said, we're talking about a lot of people. I mean, luckily, we have tracked down a number of friends and family and other people involved, but we are still looking to speak with a bunch of other people for this case.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah, I mean, we've located a lot of people, including some new people that were never interviewed back then. And that's one really big reason why we're doing this podcast, is we want to track people down, and we want to ask our listeners to help us do that throughout the season. You know, if you have information, you can notify us anonymously, but we're just trying to locate people that may be people we did talk to back then that we want to talk to again, or people that were never spoken to back then.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah, and, you know, witnesses can provide us names and contact information or remain anonymous if they want to. I mean, we really. We just. We really need your help, you know, the public's help to continue investigating the leads that we are generating in this investigation. Who you are is less important to us than what you know. So to get an idea about the likelihood that Karen would just take off or harm herself, we felt like our best course of action here was to talk to a number of her friends, family members, and co workers. In this episode, we're going to share their reflections and thoughts with our listeners as we reiterate review theory number one. Let's start with Karen's brother, Dale.

[Chief Anna Lally]

I mean, she was tough.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

She grew up with, you know, five brothers. So you're not going to give up. You're not going to, you know, do something to hurt yourself or kill yourself or Whatever.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

You're not, you're not going to do that.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

You're tough and you're gonna, you're gonna show somebody else that, yeah, I can.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

I can survive this.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

You're not gonna ruin my life or.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Take over my life or anything like that. Okay. So besides Dale, you know, we got other family members that we were able to talk to. So let's, let's listen to Gary, Karen's big brother.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah.

[Chief Anna Lally]

And Susan, her little sister, and their kind of thoughts. Do you think it's likely that she would just up and take off without telling anybody? No, no.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

And even if she did, I still.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Think she would have taken her credit.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Cards and checkbook with her. Sure. You know, because there was like, what, almost $10,000.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

It was like $8,000 and some.

[Chief Anna Lally]

You know, if you're gonna, if you're.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Gonna go off and start a new.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Life, you're probably gonna want your nest egg.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chief Anna Lally]

No, her bank account was never touched after this time frame.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Yeah, she was a very responsible person. I mean, she had a life insurance, she had savings, you know, she had credit. You know, she had, she bought a piano. I mean, she had a car, she studied everything. I was bad at. Yeah, she was a very responsible person for as young as she was. I mean, to the extent that if she was gonna, she was just gonna disappear or run away or whatever, you just wouldn't do it in this, in this fashion. And I don't think that all these years would go by when you didn't at some point, reach back out to your mom and say, you know, I had to get away, you know, whatever.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah, I moved to Canada and, you know, whatever.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

She wasn't a free spirited hippie type person that you could see going off to some commune or whatever and not saying anything to anybody. She was way too responsible for that.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

The family is right that Karen had a substantial amount of money for 1983 in her bank account. She had just gotten paid on Friday, April 15, and had received her tax return of over a thousand dollars. None of her money had ever been touched. It seems unlikely that she would up and leave without taking that kind of money with her. Right.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah, I think so.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

I mean, yeah. I mean, after all, it would be really helpful to have some several thousand dollars to start fresh somewhere else.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah, it seems pretty unlikely you'd leave that kind of money behind, you know.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah.

[Chief Anna Lally]

And just take your car, know, their belongings, you know, this. That just never made sense to me. But we can't. Like we said, we can't Discount that option just because we, off the front end of it, think, well, this doesn't make sense. We have to still kind of look at it.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Right.

[Chief Anna Lally]

But we know people went to her apartment. Her clothes were there, her personal effects were there. There was a lot of stuff left behind that you would think she would take with her if she was just going to take off.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah. And she had extended family all over the place in Illinois and Iowa and other places. I mean, Gary told us that she would have gone to someone if she needed to run away for some reason. I mean, she had so many siblings, you know, cousins and other family within a few hours of Elgin and other states, just like Texas and Utah.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah, Karen had some big reasons to stay in Illinois, too. You know, one of her close friends from high school that we spoke to was Heidi. And Heidi doesn't think that Karen would just take off either. She has a pretty compelling reason for that. Was she gonna be in your wedding?

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Yes. Okay.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yes. Do you remember there's something kind of anecdotally written in the police report about her maybe going dress shopping or something for your wedding? Did you guys do that together, or is that something she would've done on her own?

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

She went with my mom and my sister.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Okay.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Cause I was in Texas, and I just told them to pick out whatever dresses they liked.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Okay.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

In the color that I chose.

[Chief Anna Lally]

In your color?

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

You know?

[Chief Anna Lally]

Do you remember when they would have gone with her? Like, was it in close proximity to her disappearance? Or like.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

No, it was before that, because they had gone and picked them out and said, I think they sent pictures, but, you know, like, actually in mail. So it must have been before that. And another. This is anecdotally after. After she disappeared and my wedding was approaching, the bridal shop called me and said, you need to pay for her dress. And I lost my shit because I was so, so pissed. I said, first of all, and I'm just in college, just getting out of College, early 20s. And I said, you have her deposit and you have the dress. I think you're good. Yeah.

[Chief Anna Lally]

I was gonna say, did she ever pick it up?

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Never picked it up. We never picked it up, you know.

[Chief Anna Lally]

What was the date of your wedding?

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

It was August 6, 1983.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

The fact that Karen was set to be one of two bridesmaids in one of her best friend's weddings says something that I think is just really compelling. I mean, in talking to Heidi, we know that Karen had gone with Heidi's sister to try on her dress. She picked out her dress and she paid her deposit for it, too. And Karen even sent some pictures of the dress to Heidi in Texas not long before she went missing.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah, I don't think you do all those things and then just take off. I don't think Karen would want to miss that wedding. It seemed like it was something that was pretty important to her, Right?

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah. I mean, Heidi is convinced that Karen did not just take off. She said there was no way Karen would have left and missed that wedding without telling her. Heidi was pretty emotional in talking with us about Karen and missing that wedding.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

It was devastating. I mean, it's just so sad. You know, people said, are you gonna replace her? You know, And I'm like, she can't be replaced. There's gonna be an empty spot. You know, it was sad and there was kind of. It just, you know, leaves a hole. Just left a hole.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Another very close friend of Karen's is Denise. Denise and Karen met at music camp in Iowa as kids. And she had a lot of fond memories involving Karen.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Hmm. She was so much fun, personable, kind of a character, if you will. So we every evening at band camp, we would have a kazoo parade. She went and got kazoos for all of us. So we played kazoos. And we might have did some practical jokes on some of the girls in the dorms, you know, like short sheeted their sheets and things like that. But very just a personable, like I said before, one of those friends that we would not see each other for months. And then we just took it up from where we were. Beyond that, I think one time we carved pumpkins when she came to my house in the fall. One time we convinced my parents that she had a driver's license and that we should be able to use one of the cars to drive around town. I grew up in a really small town, 900 people. And she was pulling it out of the garage and might have dinked the window, you know, the mirror. I remember we were really convinced, my appearance, that it was okay. She could drive. She could drive.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Just all around. Good person.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah. Denise also described Karen as she remembered her.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

She was taller than I was, thinner.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Okay.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Longer brown hair. Not a person that would wear a lot of makeup. You know, not high maintenance. Just a beautiful girl from the Midwest.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah. Consider well dressed, like up with the fashion or just not so much up with the fashion.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Yeah. I don't know if I paid any attention then. I was from Iowa.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Home like home, like wholesome.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Okay.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

None of this, none of that. Just.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah.

[Chief Anna Lally]

People kind of describe her kind of the girl next door.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Yes. Yes.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

During our interview, we asked her directly about the theory that Karen just ran away and about how Karen's disappearance has impacted her. Is there any chance that you think she could have just ran away voluntarily? Like, said, I'm done. I'm exiting my life?

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Never.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Okay. And what was the reason that you would think that, if you don't mind me asking?

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Just because she was so connected to her family.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Okay.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

And her job and her friends.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Right. She just wasn't flaky. She wasn't.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

I want to say she wasn't spontaneous, but she wasn't spontaneous like that. You know, like, you think if something's.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Going on, like an issue with work or an issue with their family or an issue with terror, that she would.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Have reached out to one of us.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Come out, see you, or called you or something.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Yes.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Okay.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Yes.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Can you just kind of, you know, describe how Karen's disappearance has impacted you?

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

I can't even explain it. Right. And particularly being at that young age and not having any answers and all on that time frame, I had two friends die in car accidents. And then shortly after she. I had four men. Four young adult men were in a car, and three of them were some of my best friends from high school. So it was all within a matter of a couple of years, all of that. And I. I don't know if it's ever anything that you ever get over. And then how do you deal with it? Right. And I don't know if I always dealt with it.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Sure. I mean, I can only imagine.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Right. Thank goodness. Her mom, through all of the years has been. Her mom is such a solid person. She's just been amazing, you know, because we kept up through the, you know, Christmas cards and writing back and forth and staying in touch and that hope that always there's going, we're gonna find her. Yeah, we're gonna find her. And I get that gut feeling, like, when you called, I literally walked down the hall and I was crying. I'm like. Like, we are finally going to get an answer.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah. I mean, I just. I really hope we can get an answer for the family and these friends. It's been really hard listening to them all these years. I mean, it's a lot of people breaking down. Very emotional, very upset. Karen clearly had a huge impact on a lot of different people's lives.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah. We spoke to a number of Karen's co workers, including Eloise, who met Karen in 1979 and worked with her On a daily basis. Eloise still has a file that she keeps of newspaper articles and letters for Karen's case. She also helped organize the Karen Shepers Action Committee with multiple employees. They helped plan searches and prayer circles and even wrote letters and worked on action plans to help find Karen. We asked Eloise to describe Karen to us.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Karen was very young, very upbeat, always had a smile, willing to talk to anyone and share things about herself or her family or how hard our jobs were. Very friendly, very outgoing. People like to be around her. But, yeah, that's what I remember about Karen.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah. And, you know, just like everybody else, Matt, Eloise basically discounts the. That Karen would take off and really doesn't think Karen would have hurt herself. Do you think it's possible that Karen would just take off and leave?

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

No.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Is there anything in her background or when you knew her for this four and a half years or four years that would make you think she would hurt herself or kill herself or something like that?

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Definitely not. Okay.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

We asked Eloise as well, how Kieran's disappearance has affected her and her life. So after all these years, how has this kind of affected your life?

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

It does. It has affected me.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

The first. The initial time was just, like, worry, and is there something that we could have done or said? And basically, since that night, nobody leaves until every. And if there's one person that wants to stay, somebody else will stay. You know, every anniversary, it would hit us.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah, yeah.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

And then for me, it's the nightmares. Yeah. And I put off looking at this file until just last night because I'm like, yeah, yeah.

[Chief Anna Lally]

I can see it's affecting you now, just talking about it.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Yeah, yeah. And you have to accept that there's really nothing you can do. And even back then, you know, we did all that we knew that we could do. Yeah.

[Chief Anna Lally]

You know, Matt, I mean, we've talked to a lot of different co workers, including Eloise, obviously, but other people, too. And literally nobody thinks that she would just take off. And literally nobody thinks that she would hurt herself. We talked to co workers at the party that were there on April 15, and they said she was talking about this project that was coming up. She was excited about it. She even talked about that night at the party. Right. She just didn't seem to be someone that came off to them as being depressed or suicidal. She was kind of always upbeat.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, the coworkers described her as someone who was always positive at work on time, showed up on time at work, worked really hard, and that she Always had a joy. She was just a positive person around the office. I mean, other people described her as just always having a pretty smile or like a very friendly demeanor. I mean, literally none of her co workers believe to, you know, to this day that Karen left of, you know, on her own free will. And a number of them took a step that was pretty powerful to make that opinion known at the time.

[Chief Anna Lally]

You mean the letter they wrote?

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah. So there were some articles about Karen's disappearance in local papers in the couple days after she went missing. But Karen's co workers read those articles and they felt like they weren't as accurate as they could have been, and they really wanted to put their two cents on that. So people were pretty passionate about it. Nearly 40 CO workers signed an open letter expressing their kind of displeasure with the newspaper articles at the time. They submitted this letter on April 21, 1983, just three days after Karen went missing. Here's that letter.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Dear sirs, we wish we could do something to help. Your brief article is to be commended for appearing so soon after the news release and for effectively catching the reader's attention. However, we who know Karen want to set the record straight on some points. That she probably lived in Elgin is misleading at worst, inaccurate at best. Her co workers could help you verify beyond any doubt that Karen lived in Elgin. She was with many of us at PM Bentley's that night of her disappearance. It was an information graduation celebration. None of us were mingling with strangers, but only with trusted friends. Karen was the last of our party to leave PM Bentley's and had not been heard of since. We would like to assure the media and the investigators that we are quite certain Karen's disappearance was not voluntary on her part. We have never known her to act irresponsibly. None of us believe that Karen was despondent or had any reason to disappear. It keeps some of us awake at night wondering what could have happened to our friend and why. It was perhaps necessary to omit such details as the above from your report. But we think your careless wording fails to convey to the unknowing reader that. That this is a case demanding vigilance from everyone. Not probably sincerely Karen's co workers.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

You know, I think this letter speaks volumes about the impact that Karen's disappearance had on people. You know, co workers formed a Karen Shepers action committee after she went missing, too. They organized prayer circles, searches, wrote letters, put up posters around the area, and did everything they could to get her story out even more. It really is A testament to how much people in her life, even people, you know, that she didn't know well at work, all really seemed to care about her and wanted answers.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Definitely. I mean, like we said, every person we've talked to has had really great things to say about Karen. I don't think we've really heard anything negative about her for people. It seems like everyone kind of describes her as that girl that you meet her and she's just somebody you like immediately. Yeah, I'm always surprised, too, Matt. You know, we talk to these people, it's 40 years later, but every time we call somebody or meet somebody, they're very eager to talk to us, whether it's family, friends, co workers, and they all say something similar. It's something like, you know, it's crazy you called. I was just thinking about her the other day. Or, you know, so and so and I were just talking about Karen like a week ago. I can't believe you called. We were just thinking about her.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yep.

[Chief Anna Lally]

For his part, even Karen's boyfriend at the time, Terry, didn't seem to think that she would just disappear. Unfortunately, Terry passed away, so we can't talk to him. But he was quoted in a bunch of different newspaper articles and interviews back at the time in the 80s, and he had one statement that read, in part, something like this.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

It's something I'll always question and I feel in a way I'll never find out. You hear of 36 or 37 boys bodies at John Wayne Gacy's home?

[Chief Anna Lally]

I never heard those boys were missing.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

I feel like I have to get.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

My life back together again.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

It's driving me crazy.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

It would have been different if we said goodbye.

[Chief Anna Lally]

If somebody would have seen her struggle.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Or if she would have mentioned to.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Somebody there's just absolutely no reason that girl should have disappeared down her own. Yeah. And, you know, beyond just the picture that friends and family have painted for us of Karen and the fact that no one seems to think that she would have just taken off, there are two very distinct things that just stick out to me. The first one is that her bank account, I mean, it was never touched. The fact that her family, friends, and even her co workers basically reject that idea that she would have run away is a good reason to believe that she didn't run away. But all that money sitting in that account, you know, never being used or touched or accessed by anybody is something that's pretty tangible. It's not just based on people's perceptions and memories of Karen.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah, I mean, perceptions can Be one thing, but obviously us knowing that her belongings were left behind and her money was left behind is something tangible we can hold on to.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Almost like she was gonna come back.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah. And I think besides the bank cut, I'm pretty sure I know what you're gonna say is number two.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah. You mean the car.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah, the car. We always come back to the car. I know you and I have talked about the car probably almost as much as we've talked about Karen.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yep.

[Chief Anna Lally]

That car being totally gone really changes kind of the calculus of what we would think about. So if her car was still at p.m. bentley's, for example, we'd look at this differently. If her car was found at Terry's house or at her house or was found abandoned somewhere, that would totally change the different theories we had about this case and kind of how we would go about it. But the car's just gone, which is a huge part of this case.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah. The car is one lead that always gets brought back into the discussion on all these theories. And police back then did follow up on the car. So back in 1983, police sent her license plate information, the VIN number, and the description of her vehicle to all 50 states, including Alaska and Hawaii. No agency ever reported ever having any contact with it or ever coming across it. The vehicle was never retitled, never stopped by the police, and never located.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah. We have other information from newspaper articles that police flew over different salvage yards looking for the car. Like, it seems like they really looked for this car back then. I just have to say, Karen leaving and running away to start a new life just seems like a pretty unlikely scenario from the get go, based on what we've gathered from the family and friends. You know, she had a great job, she was making good money. She was about to be in her best friend's wedding.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Right.

[Chief Anna Lally]

It seems like she had a lot to live for and look forward to. But then with this car going missing, it just adds to that unlikeliness. I think, like, the car should have shown up somewhere if she just took off.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

I'd add that our added option that Karen harmed herself in some way is also one that I think seems pretty unlikely too. I mean, every single person rejected the idea that she would harm herself in some way. I know we can't, you know, 100% rule that out. And again, her car is a sticking point for that. Like, if she hurt herself, well, then where did the car go?

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah, we're gonna. I mean, we're gonna look at that. Obviously, in one of our other theories, when we Talk about bodies of water. So is the car in a body of water somewhere?

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Right.

[Chief Anna Lally]

You know, we just don't know that yet. I suppose it's possible, like there's a scenario where she intentionally drives the car into some body of water, but it seems pretty far fetched at this point, to be quite honest. I mean, like you said, the friends, the family, they reject that. There's no evidence of any mental health history, suicide attempts, drug use, nothing like that in her background that would suggest that she would do something like that.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah, I mean, and she had Heidi's wedding coming up and she had a pretty strong social structure around her. You know, she had close friends, family. It seems way more likely that if she was that upset that she would have called somebody like Denise or Heidi or another family member. You know, she called and talked to people pretty regularly, she wrote letters, all sorts of stuff like that. So she was in constant contact with people in her life and then poof, she just kind of vanishes. I don't really buy that as like a reasonable option here. Plus, none of you know her families or friends or co workers who knew her better than we do buy that either. That's pretty substantial.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think we can kind of put theory number one in this, you know, in the bucket of highly unlikely but not impossible. You know, we can't rule it out 100%, but it seems pretty unlikely. There's some other theories I think that have way more weight and we're going to talk about some of those in our next episodes. We're going to start with our next episode which is going to be a part one of a two part kind of investigation into PM Bentley's. That's the last place that Karen was seen.

[Detective Matt Vartanian]

Yeah, that's right. I think theory number one can be kind of put to bed here. There are some far more intriguing theories that I think we will spend a lot more time on to kind of explore as we go through this season. Hopefully one of those can lead us to some answers for Karen's family and friends. Next episode on Somebody Knows Something, we visit the location where PM Bentley's was in 1983. As we continue our search for Karen Shepers, we will talk about people associated with the bar, like workers and the owner. And we will talk about one person who claimed that he saw Karen that night, both inside and outside the bar just before she went missing. Tune in next episode as we investigate theory number two. Something happened at PM Bentley's.

[Chief Anna Lally]

If you or anyone you know has.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

Information about this case or any other.

[Chief Anna Lally]

Cold case in Elgin, please contact the Elgin Police Department Cold case [e-mail] or the cold case tip line at 847289. Cold.

[Detective Andrew Houghton]

You can also review cold case information.

[Chief Anna Lally]

On the Elgin Police Department's Transparency Hub by going to elginil.gov and navigating to the Elgin Police Department's Transparency Hub, where every cold case, homicide and missing persons case is listed with photographs and information about each case.