← Somebody Knows Something
Somebody Knows Something
Episode 9: Chaos Divers
00:32:14
Detectives Andrew Houghton and Matt Vartanian from the Elgin Police Department Cold Case Unit speak with Jacob Grubbs and Lindsay Bussick from Chaos Divers, the group which was instrumental in bringing Karen Schepers home, to talk about their...
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- [00:00]
Narrator
This podcast is based on information sourced primarily from police and media reports, but certain names and other identifying details may have been changed or altered for privacy and security reasons. While the events and cases discussed are based on real investigations, some aspects may be simplified for time and for narrative purposes. Voice actors have been used to read from statements or documents. All information presented is intended solely to inform and raise awareness. Hosts may discuss theories regarding the cases examined in this podcast, but such discussions are not intended to and should not be considered by the listener to be legal. Conclusions all persons discussed are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Listener discretion is advised.
- [01:03]
Chief Anna Lally
This is Chief Anna Lally. Welcome to Somebody Knows Something, a podcast from the Elgin Police Department's Cold Case Unit. In this podcast, we will shed new light on cold cases in the City of Elgin by sharing untold details and by encouraging anyone with information to come forward. You will come along with real cold case detectives as they investigate active cold cases in real time and seek justice for the victims and closure for their families. We believe that the Elgin Police Department and our community can work together to bring closure to cold cases because we know that in these cases, somebody knows something.
- [01:47]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Hello and welcome to Somebody Knows Something, the Elgin Police Department Cold Case Podcast. My name is Detective Andrew Houghton and.
- [01:54]
Detective Matt Vartanian
I'm Detective Matt Vartanian.
- [01:56]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Last episode we chronicled our search of the Fox river where we located and recovered both Karen's 1980 Toyota Celica and her remains. It was an unbelievable experience and we're still processing the fact that we no longer have to search for Karen. We know where she is and she's coming home to her family after nearly 42 years.
- [02:14]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Our investigation led us to multiple bodies of water, including the Fox River. But as we have said in previous episodes, neither Andrew or myself have ever had any experience or expertise in sonar searches, diving or recovering vehicles from water. So it is truly the expertise that Chaos Divers provided that has helped us to bring Karen home.
- [02:35]
Detective Andrew Houghton
For this episode we sat down with Jacob Grubbs and Lindsey Buck from Chaos Diversity, the Illinois based sonar search and recovery team that helped us bring Karen home. Matt and I feel like over the last few months coordinating with them and certainly over the last few weeks, everything that's happened, we've really gotten to know them and we really got to know Mike McFerrin as well, who was instrumental in confirming Karen's car with his dives and also helping us secure it and remove it.
- [02:59]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah, we wanted to use this episode to hear directly from Jacob and Lindsay about their experience with Karen's Case. We also wanted to talk to them about their background and what comes next for Chaos Divers as they continue their mission to help other families bring loved ones home. So with that, let's welcome Jacob and Lindsay. Hi, guys. How are you doing?
- [03:18]
Lindsey Buck
Well, how are you doing?
- [03:20]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Good. So we just want to thank you guys again for everything that you do. And we just want to give this, you know, this time and take the opportunity to be able to just dig a little bit deeper into who you guys are and what you're about, what motivates you. So if you guys don't mind sharing, would you be able to give us both of your backgrounds and how did you transition into Chaos Divers?
- [03:41]
Jacob Grubbs
Well, my name is Jacob Grubbs. I was a coal miner for 12 years. With the declining of coal mining, I decided I wanted to pursue a interest in scuba diving and see if I could start recovering and helping clean out the river systems. From there, I found out that I was able to utilize our skills into what it is now on Chaos Divers. It is a search and recovery dive group dive team that pretty much started with Team waters out of St. Louis. Team Waters was able to show us the ways and show us how to use cutting edge technology with the Garmin and Hummingbird live scope. I'm sorry, the Hummingbird sonars and Garmin livescope abilities to be able to see what's underwater. And we were able to utilize that and help bring home lost loved ones. So from there, I started pursuing that. And to date, now that we have brought home 20 lost loved ones since we've started. Yeah.
- [05:03]
Detective Andrew Houghton
So Karen was your 20th human remains recovery, is that right?
- [05:07]
Jacob Grubbs
Yes, sir.
- [05:08]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Okay. And Lindsey, how about you? What were you doing before Chaos Divers?
- [05:14]
Lindsey Buck
So prior to meeting Jacob, I was actually the executive director for a chamber of commerce down here locally. I was volunteering for a search and rescue ground searching team down here in Southern Illinois. And that's actually how I met Jacob was through that we had a person missing who was missing along with his vehicle. One of his friends knew Jacob and got me in contact with him, said, hey, you know, this guy does. Can search water and stuff with sonar and diving. So I contacted Jacob that evening and we got everything situated. I remember one of the first questions that I asked Jacob was, you know, how much are you going to charge us because we do this for free. And Jacob had said, we don't charge anything at all. And then I, you know, he came out and helped with the search. And that's when I kind of started learning about utilizing YouTube and, and Facebook and social media in this aspect because he had already had established chaos diverse. And then from there I started, we stayed in contact, helped set up, you know, his website, things like that. And then unfortunately, I lost my job due to Covid back in July of 2021 and looked at Jacob and said, you know, I'm. I'm all yours if. If you want me to help you. And here we are four years later. And it's been an absolutely remarkable journey so far.
- [07:00]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Awesome. So in the last four years, how many vehicles would you say that you guys have located or recovered?
- [07:08]
Jacob Grubbs
Located, I would say. And this is just a rough estimate, and I would say about a little bit over a thousand vehicles and we were able to recover. What will you say how many?
- [07:22]
Lindsey Buck
Probably around 200 or so. I know we've worked. I actually in doing Karen's case, just pulled it up the other night and went through every case. We've worked 111 cases in the last four years.
- [07:36]
Jacob Grubbs
Wow.
- [07:36]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Okay.
- [07:37]
Detective Andrew Houghton
How many different states have you guys been to?
- [07:39]
Lindsey Buck
Do you know we have been to what, 20ish?
- [07:46]
Jacob Grubbs
About 20 states?
- [07:47]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah.
- [07:47]
Lindsey Buck
Yeah, give or take.
- [07:50]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Okay.
- [07:50]
Jacob Grubbs
If you were to. If you were to cut the United States in half, almost every bit of the east coast or east from the half of the United States except for the upper northern parts like Maryland and Maine and Vermont, we have not been up in that corner. But everything else, basically we have had a search in those waters.
- [08:15]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Okay, so you're probably talking like Ohio River, Mississippi River, Illinois river, lots of major waterways, plus smaller rivers like the Fox River.
- [08:25]
Lindsey Buck
Yes, we. We've covered the Mississippi River, Missouri River. We've actually had several recovered recoveries in the Ohio river, both vehicles and lost loved ones. There's a lot of, you know, tributaries that go off of those rivers that we've been in. And then there's also been a lot of, you know, little ponds and lakes. And we've pretty much been able to, you know, no pun intended, kind of dip our toes into everything.
- [08:58]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah, I know we, we kind of touched base on this a little bit. But what specifically drove you guys to this line of work? Like where, what, what's the passion that, that drives you guys to do this, this type of work?
- [09:11]
Lindsey Buck
I think for me it's been this. We've kind of been afforded this opportunity to provide answers to a family when they've not gotten them anywhere else.
- [09:26]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah.
- [09:26]
Lindsey Buck
So being able to do that for somebody. And I told Jacob, after our very first recovery, it was in October of 2021. A gentleman in. In Ohio in the Ohio River. I said, if this is all we ever do, if this is the only person we ever find, this is worth it.
- [09:46]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah.
- [09:47]
Lindsey Buck
So it's just being able to do something for someone, basically, you know, you just do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. We've been. Jacob and I have been pretty fortunate in the sense that we've never had a missing loved one who was close to us since doing this job. My husband, however, has. His cousin has gone missing. He's been missing for a few years now. Jacob and I have actually gone down and kind of gotten out of our area of expertise in that, you know, we searched the water, focused on vehicles where Sean is just missing from a small town in Mississippi. So kind of gotten out and, you know, kind of pounded the pavement and just talked to everybody we can talk to anytime we're down in Mississippi. So to. To see someone close to us go through what these families go through, it definitely kind of drives our mission home a little more.
- [10:47]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah, I can only imagine. I know for us, we had talked a lot about the Fox river in the last couple of weeks, but I know Lindsey, when we first met, and we're starting to coordinate this, we were planning to search way more area than just the river. Right. Can you kind of walk us through that process?
- [11:06]
Lindsey Buck
Yeah. So I think there was kind of this. A mutual agreeance between. Between you guys and us before we have really even spoken too much that obviously the Fox river one needed to be searched just because of, you know, the different routes. But we had, I want to say, approximately close to 30 locations that we wanted to search. We all knew you guys had shared your maps with us, and then that also entailed the different routes that Karen could have taken that night. We went even a step further in having the ability to go through and mark every single body of water, even ones that weren't necessarily on her route in the event something happened. Knowing that the river was flooded, did she, you know, have to turn around and go a completely different way? We looked at everything. We all agreed that with the Fox river being the biggest body of water, that we wanted to search that first, you know, take out that biggest chunk first. And we had even broken the Fox river up into different segments as, you know, time got closer. Okay. We knew we wanted to search, you know, from this street to this dam, this dam up to this street. And thankfully, you know, I remember coming towards the end of the day, and we had already kind of started to game plan for, you know, what, tomorrow was going to look like.
- [12:36]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah, I think it's, I think that's important to, to bring up here because, you know, we've obviously had a lot of questions, you know, throughout the last couple weeks of why it took 42 years. Right. And you know, why. We've, we've, we've said this before, but we can't speak for previous versions of law enforcement, only what we can, you know, account for our actions and, and the six months roughly of what we've done with this case. But we knew we wanted to be as thorough as possible. And then once we met you guys, and then you guys came up and we thought we had like five or six bodies of water, right. That we thought we were going to search. And then Lindsay, you're like, we have like, 30.
- [13:12]
Lindsey Buck
Yeah.
- [13:12]
Detective Matt Vartanian
And I was like, right there. I knew. I'm like, we have the right people because they, they care. Right? And, and you guys, you're doing the right thing for the right reasons. Right. Which is, is what Karen's family deserves and what Karen deserves also. You know, so that was, to me, was a big sign of like, yeah, we, we have, we found the people that we need. You know, you guys are the experts in this, and we, we, we got them. We know who we need.
- [13:34]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah. I think I want to just note, like, for our listeners, we did identify a body of water on Santa's village property up at Illinois Route 72 and 25. We had met with that company and that pond had been drained in 2019. So we were kind of taking that off of our list. But just so people understand, we had looked at our two routes and multiple bodies of water along those routes. And then in conjunction with what you guys had told us, we were planning to kind of spread out from there over probably a 5 or 10 mile radius into all these other bodies of water. We had other sections of the river, you know, both above and below other dams that we were going to look at just in the event that she went in and went over the dam. So it was not like we just came up and we're like, let's just search the Fox river in this one area and we're done. We had a full week planned of, like you said, maybe 20, 25 to 30 bodies of water that we were looking at.
- [14:24]
Lindsey Buck
Yeah. And that was only on the east side of the river. We hadn't even talked about the west side at that point. We knew we wanted to kind of knock everything out because everything was on the east side of the river for Karen, you know, PM Bentley's, her house, her boyfriend's house. At the time, everything was, was taking us and we had even talked about that going to, you know, if we search every single one of these bodies of water and we still don't find her. Then we even talked about planning a second trip up there with you guys and looking at the west side.
- [15:00]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah, Jacob, can you just kind of walk us through? I know we got in the water around what, like 9:00 maybe that Monday. Just kind of walk us through, you know, from your perspective, kind of how the day went and what we did, so our listeners understand.
- [15:14]
Jacob Grubbs
So when we put in, like you said, it was around 9, 9:30, you know, high hopes that when we looked at these bodies of water when we first started out, it's like we need, like you guys had already said, we need to knock out the biggest portion first. And that's going to give us more time to concentrate on these smaller bodies of water. I know the elongated body of water down Duncan Avenue was a very, very probable spot back then. It didn't have, you know, a fence and stuff like that. But when I put in, I was very surprised. We put in the Slate Avenue boat ramp. When I put in the water, I was like, man, this actually has a little depth to it. That's good because I've seen a lot of rapids above I90 driving over it and I'm like, man, this looks shallow. I don't know if we're going to be able to get the boat all the way up. So when we first started out, I started going around while Lindsay was putting the boat in the trailer or the trailer and the truck up. And it was just, just to kind of get an idea. I, I do know people say that there's been cars put in there from. I think it was Mike off who said something about a car that was actually put in there, but he didn't know if it was taken out. So I was looking for that and just going around, I didn't see anything. So when we loaded up and took off for the, for the day to search, you know, just meticulously going through there. There's a lot of, there's a lot of debris, there's some pipes in there. There's a lot of questionable items that are, that are not vehicles, but they're like, what are they? So we, we spent a lot of time doing that and just kind of investigating like we do, going every direction, making sure that they weren't vehicles. The first vehicle that we found, I honestly, it was Right up against that pump station. I could have sworn that was going to be Karen's vehicle. It looked small. It looked a little sportier. And. And then when Mike McFerrin actually pulled. I think he pulled a headlight out first.
- [17:36]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah.
- [17:36]
Jacob Grubbs
That headlight was sort of almost identical to the headlight that would be in Karen's car.
- [17:43]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah.
- [17:44]
Jacob Grubbs
So right there, I'm like, I got cold chills. And I'm like, oh, man. Like, this is very potential. And you said the same thing.
- [17:51]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah, Yeah.
- [17:54]
Jacob Grubbs
I. I was like, dude, you have to. You have to go back down. I was talking to Mike. I said, you have to go back down and give me something else. And then when he pulled the. I think it was a license plate holder up. Yeah.
- [18:05]
Detective Andrew Houghton
And there was nothing attached to it. We're like, oh, okay, let's keep going here.
- [18:09]
Jacob Grubbs
And then he ended up. I said, mike, one more time, buddy. Right. And he was a beast. And he came up with a plastic gas cap. And I. I'm not for sure if it was Matt or if it was Andrew who said the gas cap was actually square.
- [18:26]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yes.
- [18:27]
Jacob Grubbs
Yeah. So. And with a key. With a key lock, right? Yeah.
- [18:30]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Had a lock for it.
- [18:31]
Jacob Grubbs
So I'm like, it's. It's not the car. We're done. Like, it's not the car in this car. I don't think in my mind it will come out in one piece, because the way that Mike described it, we've had that a lot to where the car is so deteriorated and so dilapidated that it will not come out in one piece.
- [18:51]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Right.
- [18:51]
Jacob Grubbs
So to remove that would need a piece of big machinery to actually pull it out to. And it's. I. I just don't know if it would be sure. Able to. Yeah.
- [19:04]
Detective Andrew Houghton
And I know Mike said that basically it was. It wasn't intact. Like, there wasn't windows or door. Like, it wasn't like you're going to just. It wasn't a car. Basically. It was piece. It was the frame of a car with pieces attached to it. He kind of described. Like he grabbed that license plate, said. Just ripped right off the frame of the car.
- [19:20]
Jacob Grubbs
Yeah. So those cars are. In my eyes, I feel like those cars are now a part the fish habitat. They've done their damage. They've already done their damage to the. To the environment. It just. They just need to stay there. So the second car we were able to find, we actually turned back around. And I wanted to stay in that general area due to the depth. I said, let's just keep going around because we did see some questionable things, and we found another vehicle, and it was the same way, but he was able to tell and determine that it was actually a super dark color. So I'm like, all right, well, let's continue to go. We traveled all the way up to almost east Dundee. I think we got to the turn. There was a one. One corner that I was really interested. Where the road actually ends.
- [20:13]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah.
- [20:14]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yep. Williams Place, I think.
- [20:16]
Jacob Grubbs
Yes, Williams Place. So at Williams Place, I was like, I've got to get up there at least. So in a lot of our incidences or a lot of our missions, we have 2 foot and then it goes to 10 foot, 2 foot to 10 foot, and then sometimes even 20 foot holes. But in this case, that river is just solid 2 foot or even. Sometimes even a foot. So it's. It's got a solid base on the. On the ground with that current. So therefore, when we got to Williams Place, I said, we're turning around. It's too shallow.
- [20:51]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah.
- [20:52]
Jacob Grubbs
And we turned around, and from there, I was literally done for the day and traveling back. Due to the fact that it was so shallow. It took us a little bit to go, but I was able to follow my track. So I pushed the gas a little bit because everybody was ready. It's been about five or six hours. Well, you say five or six hours more than that. It's been a long day. On the. On the river, everybody was tired, so I was like, all right, let's get. Let's get home. So as soon as I was getting ready to. To dock the boats so Lindsay can get the trailer down, I said, you know what? I want to check this one more time. We all decided we wanted to check it one more time. And I threw the. Threw the sonar down, and we seen a wall. We seen something that was different, and it wasn't supposed to be there. And the fact that I couldn't see it, we went around, and we were like, we don't know what this is. It took us two or three laps around this car, and finally we decided that we were going to throw the magnet down. And I was literally getting up, and I think it was Matt that said, that's a car. You know, I was like. At the same time, we're like, oh, wow, that's a car. And Matt seen it. Andrew. Everybody was like. And at the time, Michael, Mike McFerrin, he had already gotten dressed and out of his dry suit. I felt so horrible, but I'm like, you want to give the last two raw on this? He's like, yep. So we can concentrate on other areas because, believe it or not, if we didn't do that and find that car, we were done with the Fox river forever.
- [22:41]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah.
- [22:43]
Jacob Grubbs
Because you had already determined that on. Below that bridge was. Had been already, like, drained to do all that foundation work, right?
- [22:54]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah. Clear, cleared out or drained, you know, a number of years ago. And you're right. Like, I. I distinctly remember that sonar image when we found it. And it's like one of those things that'll just stick in your mind, right? Like, you just see it and you're like, that is a car. It's upside down. You can see the wheels on it. Like, it's just clear as day. Right. Like where like you said, the. The previous two or three passes there was, you just couldn't see it.
- [23:16]
Jacob Grubbs
Right.
- [23:17]
Detective Matt Vartanian
It's just that perfect, you know, positioning over it at the right angle. Whatever it is, you know, to be able to see it, it's just incredible.
- [23:23]
Detective Andrew Houghton
I just remember, Jacob, you pointing it out and going, that's a tire. That's a tire. That's the window. That's the window. It's on its top. That's a car. That's 100% a car. And we said, okay. And we circled back around, and off we went.
- [23:35]
Jacob Grubbs
So Michael got dressed again. God bless him. Love that guy Death. He does everything for us. And he won't wince an eye if I asked him to do something. He's a very good diver. So we were able to determine it was her car. And, and to see when he came up with that license plate, I was messing around with the, the. The trolling motor, and I was kind of not aware of the license plate at the time that he was holding. I knew he had a license plate, but I didn't see it. You guys seen it, and you were like, that's it. I'm like, what do you mean, that's it?
- [24:10]
Lindsey Buck
Yeah.
- [24:11]
Jacob Grubbs
And then to see the. The joy that. That you guys had of we finally solved this case was. Was absolutely beautiful.
- [24:20]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah. Like, having know after six months of work on the case, you. You're holding something tangible in your hand that is a result of everything that just came together, you know. And I'll say this once again, and I'll continue to say it. We would not have been able to find Karen's car without you guys. The credit goes to you guys, the expertise. I know you don't call yourselves professionals, but you are. You guys are amazing people. And we would not have been able to get that car out the way that we got it out with. With Karen, without you guys, you know, we would have lost stuff. It would have came out a different way. Just I'm still blown away by that. So I want to ask you guys, how has Karen's case impacted you guys?
- [25:01]
Lindsey Buck
I think so. Karen's case is the oldest case that we've had the honor of solving. So for us, because we do have another case in Iowa, Harry Milligan has been missing for 41 years. So it kind of gives me a renewed hope that because there. There kind of comes this point in time, you're like, are we going to find this car? Is this car going to be buried under silt and sediment? And so some of these older cases, Tom Long in Ohio, he's been missing since the late 1960s. It's given me kind of a renewed hope that we can do this and we can find these cars that have been in there for 30, 40, 50, 60 years. So it's been really great to kind of. It's kind of refreshed us in a way. But I think also, one, getting to meet Karen's mom, Liz, was an absolute pleasure. I think that's something I'll never forget. But also getting to feel like we kind of got to be part of your foundation as well in this cold case unit. So to be able to experience this with you guys and this being your first one, and I will tell you that that feeling never goes away. Every. Every case that we solve, it feels like it's the very first one we've ever solved.
- [26:24]
Detective Matt Vartanian
It's awesome.
- [26:25]
Lindsey Buck
So. But to be able to do that with you guys and be there for your first one, and there, there's. This really does encompass so many emotions on so many levels. You know, obviously, bringing Karen home was. Was an amazing feeling, but getting to sit down and speak with her mom and tell her, you know, even after Karen is gone, look at everything that was done because of Karen. All of these people from all different walks of life have come together because of Karen. And again, you know, to be able to. To do this and with you guys, and you guys having that faith in our abilities truly has been an incredible experience.
- [27:14]
Jacob Grubbs
In my side of everything. I think with going what Lindsey said, to have everybody together as a team and to every single day talk about what we're going to do next, how we're going to do things, what the chain of command is going to be, and having Abby from the coroner with us and having all of that professionalism all in one has been a blessing. And to Speak with the family again is truly amazing. To tell somebody from 90 years where her daughter has been for the past 42 years, it's crazy feeling.
- [27:56]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Okay, we just want to kind of wrap up with you guys by asking, how can our listeners get involved in what you are doing? How can they follow you? How can they donate different things like that?
- [28:06]
Lindsey Buck
So we are. Our primary platforms for our searches are on YouTube and Facebook. Under Chaos Divers. We. We do this for two reasons. One, when we go on a search, it gets that person's story out to everyone. It brings them back to the forefront of people's minds, and that's the most important part of what we do. And then second, in being that kind of content creator role, it allows us to, you know, make the money to be able to do this. We do this at no charge to the families and at no charge to law enforcement. We don't accept rewards. If there is a reward from families, the best way is to follow us on either of those platforms to interact with the videos. Just watching the videos, that's the most that we can ask of anyone. The rest of our support does come through, you know, donations and contributions. You can always contact us on chaosdivers.com. there's a link on there. And then we also have PayPal, Cash App, Venmo, things like that. And I believe if you are on our website and you scroll to the bottom, those links are on there as well. But the biggest thing that we can ask people is just, you know, just follow along and support what we do and just watch the videos. And that's really the biggest thing that we ask of people.
- [29:40]
Detective Andrew Houghton
Yeah, I mean, I think Matt and I both, we just can't say enough about you guys. I know you said it was a pleasure to work with us. It was likewise. It was just a pleasure.
- [29:48]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Absolutely.
- [29:49]
Detective Andrew Houghton
We certainly hope that other people in law enforcement hear this. Other people that are have loved ones missing hear this, and that your service is something that they could potentially use. If anyone needs to get in contact with you guys, they can always contact us or contact you directly. We're happy to recommend you to anybody because we had just such a great experience with both of you and with Bike as well.
- [30:11]
Lindsey Buck
No, thank you for, again, for everything that you guys allowed us to do and, you know, to. To be able to play, you know, this part and. And not only Karen's story, but your journey as well. And that's something that we'll forever be grateful for.
- [30:27]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Yeah. Thank you very much, guys. We really do appreciate your time and everything that you've done for us here.
- [30:32]
Jacob Grubbs
Well, thank you. I appreciate you guys.
- [30:37]
Detective Andrew Houghton
All right, so chaos divers like Matt and I said have been instrumental in this case. We certainly appreciate them coming on with us for the podcast and for helping us with everything they did. Again, please consider donating to them, following them, liking their different content as they continue their quest to bring more people home like we were able to bring Karen home.
- [31:01]
Detective Matt Vartanian
Next episode, our focus is going to shift back to Karen's case. We plan to discuss new details about Karen and her car, as well as some new tips that have been coming in as our recovery of Karen and her car has made national headlines. Now that we have found Karen and she has come home and now that we have her vehicle, we can finally provide some answers about what we believe happened to her on April 16th of 1983.
- [31:30]
Chief Anna Lally
If you or anyone you know has information about this case or any other cold case in Elgin, please contact the Elgin Police Department Cold case email@coldcasetipselginil.gov or the cold case tip line at 847289 cold. You can also review cold case information on the Elgin Police Department's Transparency Hub by going to Elginil.gov and navigating to the Elgin Police Department's transparency hub, where every cold case, homicide and missing persons case is listed with photographs and and information about each case.