S8 E6: The Price of Admission

Summary

Summary of "Someone Knows Something" Season 8, Episode 6: "The Price of Admission"

Release Date: October 23, 2023
Host: David Ridgen
Podcast: CBC's "Someone Knows Something"

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Introduction

In the sixth episode of Season 8, titled "The Price of Admission," host David Ridgen delves deeper into the mysterious disappearance and murder of Angel Carlik. Partnering with Angel's mother and revisiting new leads, Ridgen explores the lingering questions and unresolved aspects of this heartbreaking case.

Overview of the Angel Carlik Case

Angel Carlik, a vibrant teenager from Hanover, Ontario, vanished in the spring of 1993 while en route to school. Although a suspect confessed to her murder, inconsistencies in the confession led to the case falling apart, leaving Angel's family without closure. Season 8 revisits this unsolved mystery, aiming to uncover overlooked details and bring new insights to the forefront.

Investigation Background

The episode opens with reflections on another high-profile case, the Golden State Killer, setting the stage for the complexities of long-term investigations. David Ridgen discusses the challenges faced by law enforcement over decades when pursuing justice for lost victims.

New Leads and Interviews

Jason Beneke: A Person of Interest

Kathleen Goldthar introduces Jason Beneke as a person of interest in Angel's case. With a history of criminal activity, including assault and drug trafficking, Beneke's proximity to the scene raised suspicions. However, police investigations remained inconclusive.

• Kathleen Goldthar (02:00): "Jason Beneke was a member of the Yukon's Little Salmon Carmax First Nation and spent most of his life in the territory before moving to British Columbia..."

Despite Beneke's death, Ridgen remains open to revisiting his involvement, emphasizing the importance of thorough research beyond official files.

Amber's Critical Tip

Amber, a key informant, shares a chilling account from a Christmas gathering two years prior. She recounts overhearing a conversation where a man named Jay references his father's violent tendencies, specifically mentioning threatening actions toward Angel.

• Amber (06:06): "It was two years ago on Christmas that I had some friends over... He said he got his temper from his dad."
• Amber (07:01): "You want me to do to you what I did to that Angel Carlet girl."

This revelation introduces a potential link between Jay's father and Angel's disappearance, prompting Ridgen and his team to investigate further.

Conversations with Lori and Wesley

Lori, a close friend of the family, and Wesley, Jay's brother, provide additional perspectives. Their emotional testimonies reveal the deep-seated community ties and the personal toll the investigation has taken.

• Wesley (24:05): "I don't see my brother having any involvement at all in Angel's disappearance... I don't see my dad having any connection whatsoever to Angel."

Despite the assurances, new information emerges suggesting possible threats from a former RCMP officer, complicating the narrative and raising concerns about safety and credibility.

Frances Stockman's Account

Frances Stockman, married to Kevin Karlach (a relative of Angel), recounts unsettling sounds she believes she heard at the family hotel, where Angel was last known to be before her disappearance.

• Frances (17:22): "I heard a girl screaming... It might have been her."
• Frances (20:06): "She was about two spaces in from the end by the door... we went back, it was still right there, same place."

These auditory clues add another layer of mystery, suggesting Angel may have been present at the hotel around the time of her disappearance.

Challenges and Emotional Toll

Throughout the investigation, Ridgen and his team grapple with the emotional weight of reopening a painful case. Interviews with Lori and Wesley highlight the personal struggles and community impact of Angel's unsolved murder.

• Lori (10:05): "I just knew I'd be walking into something I would have a heavy truth to."

The discovery of potential threats from a former RCMP officer further intensifies the emotional and investigative challenges faced by those seeking answers.

Continuing the Investigation

As Ridgen's time in Whitehorse concludes, he expresses determination to continue the investigation from Toronto. Efforts to contact Jay's family members are ongoing, with hopes of uncovering more substantial evidence to either confirm or dispel suspicions surrounding Jason Beneke and his father.

• Kathleen Goldthar (26:28): "I just wish I had more time in the Yukon."

The episode underscores the complexity of cold cases, where new leads can emerge unexpectedly, reigniting hope for resolution despite years of uncertainty.

Conclusion

"The Price of Admission" poignantly illustrates the enduring quest for truth in the face of tragedy. Through meticulous interviews and the unearthing of new information, David Ridgen brings listeners closer to understanding the intricate web surrounding Angel Carlik's disappearance. As the investigation progresses, the episode leaves audiences reflecting on the profound impact of unresolved crimes on families and communities.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Amber (07:01): "You want me to do to you what I did to that Angel Carlet girl."
• Lori (10:05): "I knew I'd be walking into something I would have a heavy truth to."
• Frances (17:29): "It might have been her... It haunted me for a long, long time."
• Wesley (24:05): "I don't see my brother having any involvement at all in Angel's disappearance."

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Note: This summary is based on the transcript provided and aims to encapsulate the key discussions, insights, and emotional undertones of the episode without incorporating non-content sections such as advertisements or introductions.

Transcript

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Between 1973 and 1986, the Golden State Killer terrorized Californians.

[Amber]

He scoped out the homes he would enter. Police would find cigarettes under a tree by a window. So he was frequently there at the window, in the backyard, in the dark.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

I'm Kathleen Goldthar and this week on Crime why it took police more than 40 years to identify the Golden State Killer. Find Crime Story wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast.

[Mike Simpson]

Did you look into Jason Beneke?

[David Ridgeon]

We did.

[Mike Simpson]

And what did you find on him?

[David Ridgeon]

A person of interest? Certainly things were done with sort of examining his timeline and things of that nature. And I'm aware that he had passed away a few years back, so I believe he has a brother as well.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Jason Beneke is one of the only names I've asked about that Corporal Mike Simpson seems to give a discernible reaction to. So far I have a pilot mountain neighbor of Beneke's saying he was troubled and perhaps involved in some break ins and police saying he was a person of interest in Angel's case. The Beneke property was very close to where angel was found. Did police ever rule him out as a person of interest?

[Mike Simpson]

Okay, so investigation inconclusive or did you satisfy yourself that he was, you know.

[David Ridgeon]

He may come back up. We'll see. Unfortunately, he's deceased now, sadly. But like with everyone, certainly my approach is to. Since I've started, I've tried to learn as much as I can about everything but the file. But of course you're reading other people's information, so.

[Mike Simpson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

From what I can find so far, Jason Beneke was a member of the Yukon's Little Salmon Carmax First Nation and spent most of his life in the territory before moving to British Columbia sometime around 2015. At some point thereafter, as Simpson says, Jason Beneke passed away.

[Mike Simpson]

So were you able to determine how Jason passed? Do you know anything about his passing?

[David Ridgeon]

I don't know if I can speak to that.

[Mike Simpson]

You've looked at the circumstances around Jason's?

[David Ridgeon]

Yes. You know, I'm trying to let what I'm doing lead me to where it goes and if it comes back to him, perhaps than we bought down, which is helpful for me.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Jason Beneke did have a criminal record in British Columbia. According to court documents, there were a few staid charges, but he was also found guilty of assault, uttering threats of death or bodily harm, and attempting to steal a vehicle, among other similar charges. And he served time, too, for offenses such as drug trafficking. Jason Beneke would have been around 20 years old when Angel Karlach disappeared. I will reach out to any Beneke family members I might find to see if there might be any sort of connection between Jason and Angel. But Beneke isn't the only name that's emerged from the investigation. And as my time in Whitehorse draws to a close, Angel's case has started to move. I'm David Ridgeon and this is Someone Knows Something Season 8 the Angel Carlik Case Episode 6 the Price of Admission.

[Mike Simpson]

The new card I just put in this audio recorder I have says I have 178 hours of recording left. I'll probably go through that before I'm done here. I've already done so many hours of recording, in this case, just tip of the iceberg.

[Lori]

So we're going to go all the way up and around. So we're going to stay on this main one, all the way up.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Okay.

[Mike Simpson]

Yeah, we can basically just meet this person outside. Do we know this person's name?

[Lori]

This is what I have on Facebook.

[Mike Simpson]

Check. Hello. Check, check, check. Hello. Hello. Do you mind if we just meet in your backyard or something? Is that easier for you? Oh, we can just go somewhere less sunny outside.

[Amber]

Can I get you a water or a coffee?

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Lori and I are in one of Whitehorse's newer subdivisions. We're here to speak to Amber, who saw our call for tips on the SKS Facebook page months earlier and has agreed to share some information.

[Amber]

My anxiety was a little high.

[Lori]

Two strangers coming into the house, you gonna sit there?

[Amber]

It's the whole situation, right? Like I've always held a whole case kind of close to my heart and who would think that I would come up with information, right? And I don't know if the information's true, but I didn't sleep well the night after I heard it and I made a point of the next time I was sitting with the person to bring the subject back up, which made me very anxious as well.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Amber props herself on the railing of her back deck where we have all congregated. She's nervous, but wants to get it right and says she wants to share what she knows. For angel, these are the potential truth telling moments that cases can fly from.

[Amber]

So it was two years ago on Christmas that I had some friends over.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Two friends on a winter's night in 2020. One man who we've agreed to name Jay to protect some of the people around him and another man named Wesley. They are all at Amber's place. Jay, Amber says, begins to act out.

[Amber]

And we had a few drinks and I think it got to the point where he kind of had a little act out. And he does. He's kind of got a temper and he acted out. And so it had come up in that conversation that night that we were just talking about his temper and that he said he got his temper from his dad.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Then Amber says Jay continued to tell a story about his father also having a short temper and an argument the two men once had.

[Amber]

His dad said, you want to fuck with me? Then you want me to do what I did to that Angel Carlet girl to you? Something around those lines. And so after that was said, I felt, I just, you know, it was very uncomfortable. I didn't sleep well. It kind of like stuck in my head and I was like, wow, like I might have some really serious information towards the this case. Right.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Amber was shocked at the conversation she heard. Jay never came back to her place. But she did manage to make a recording of Wesley retelling the story about what Jay had said about his father. Amber sent it to police.

[Amber]

It's only a 10 second recording, but I have it. I contacted the RCMP.

[Mike Simpson]

Mike Simpson.

[Amber]

Yep. Michael Simpson.

[Mike Simpson]

Yep.

[Amber]

And I reported it to him. And I'm gonna say that I don't feel like it was taken seriously. He was kind of like nonchalant about it. I don't know, I just didn't feel like it was taken seriously. Kind of upset me a bit. And at this point, nobody's ever contacted me again about it.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

All of this makes me want to talk to Wesley and then hopefully Jay and ultimately Jay's father. Did the father actually do something to Angel? A little bit of digging shows me that Jay, his family and his father all lived on Pilot Mountain at the time of Angel's disappearance and quite close to where angel was found. Amber says she will put me in contact with Wesley. I definitely want his account, but what Wesley allegedly heard Jay say could be nothing, an utterance fired off at the end of a short temper. But this is the first time in this case that someone allegedly connects themselves to Angel Ann to her murder.

[Amber]

Thank you guys so much for putting the time into for Angel. I really hope you find closure.

[Lori]

Thank you much.

[Mike Simpson]

Appreciate it. Thanks so much. Take care. We'll be in touch. Thank you.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Lori and I walk back to the car in silence. She's been mostly quiet the whole time. Then I see the emotion spread across her face.

[Mike Simpson]

You all right?

[Lori]

These just really good family friends of mine.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Lori knows the man we're calling Jay.

[Lori]

I don't know their dad, but I do Know.

[Wesley]

This is just.

[Lori]

This is a lot.

[Mike Simpson]

Well, we don't know if it's true, if anything about it is true.

[Lori]

No, I know.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

It's just.

[Lori]

It's just that whole time, I didn't say anything because I was so, like, in shock.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Up until this point, all we know is what we've heard from a single source. Hardly anything more than conjecture. But I know that it doesn't make this any easier on Laurie, even though she doesn't know Jay's father, the man who allegedly made the utterance about having done something to Angela.

[Mike Simpson]

Want to drive around a bit and just chat or, like, just blow off steam or. What do you want to do? Go for a walk or something or.

[Lori]

I don't even know right now. I'm like. I just. I literally feel nauseous.

[Mike Simpson]

I know.

[Lori]

I knew this would happen, like. Like just finding out information I didn't really want to know. You know, I knew that there would be little things here and there, but this, like, she said it could be horseshit, and I could be getting worked up over just gossip.

[Mike Simpson]

But, yes, you could be their mom.

[Lori]

I love, like, an aunt, and it's like, the family. You know, I grew up at that household. I have all the respect in the world for them. And then to have one of those names brought up, it's.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Lori has been guiding me through the community of this case for much of my time here in Whitehorse, learning information alongside me and possessing her pain in real time. And it's taken a toll. I. Take Lori home.

[Lori]

Okay? I'll talk to you later.

[Mike Simpson]

Okay, thanks very much. Text me if you want.

[Lori]

Okay, I will.

[Jay]

Hello?

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Oh, hi.

[Mike Simpson]

Is this Wesley?

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Yeah.

[Mike Simpson]

Hey, Wesley, it's Dave Bridgen. Thanks so much for doing this call.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Amber has helped to connect me to Wesley, and I jump through the preliminaries until I can ask him, what did his friend Jay say about his father?

[Jay]

I guess he, like, went and moved down with his dad for, like, a year or something, but they got into an argument. I guess his dad's like, a real piece of whatever, but I guess they got into an argument, and all he said was like, don't make me do to you what I did to Angel Karlic, or something like that. And then to get all freaked out, and I was like, well, that's weird. And his dad always seemed like a weird guy, too.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

A reminder that Wesley did not hear Jay's father say this and wasn't present at the time. Wesley only heard the story from Jay.

[Mike Simpson]

How did this conversation come up?

[Jay]

Honestly, I can't remember. Like, we're pretty good friends, and we just sit around and talk and bullshit and drink and whatever. Like he was complaining about how big of a piece of shit his dad is. His dad moved away after they got divorced.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Jay's father moved to a town outside the Yukon in a western province where I believe he still resides. Jay himself is unhoused and has proven difficult to find. But with Lori's help, I may be able to connect with Jay's sister. It has been suggested that any approach to the father should be undertaken with caution. I'll try to talk to Jay's other family members before trying to contact the father. But first, I want to speak with Corporal Simpson about this tip from Amber and the short video she recorded and sent to him. Did Simpson find anything out?

[Mike Simpson]

So I had a tip come in where they said they spoke to you, and this person had a recording of somebody who was saying some names on the recording.

[David Ridgeon]

Okay.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

I mentioned the names of the people involved.

[David Ridgeon]

Right.

[Mike Simpson]

Yeah, I know.

[David Ridgeon]

I don't believe they ever gave us the record.

[Mike Simpson]

Cause she showed me an email that had your email address on it.

[David Ridgeon]

I never believe I received it. Yeah, I tried to contact her a few times.

[Mike Simpson]

Sure.

[David Ridgeon]

I can try her again, sort of the last.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Was that so it seems our CMP haven't looked into this yet, but I will. And I have my other questions regarding Angel's file. Mark Porter, for example, Angel's boyfriend at the time of her disappearance.

[David Ridgeon]

I think we have a very good timeline for him.

[Mike Simpson]

So an alibi that works or he's.

[David Ridgeon]

Been looked at and he polygraphed as well. For me right now wouldn't say not a suspect.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

I also ask about the information I received from Vicky Durant, Angel's supervisor. Vicki told me that she was positive Angel's bike was locked up at the Family Hotel downtown.

[Mike Simpson]

After angel went missing, did you guys look into. Did police look into the bicycle locked in front of that hotel?

[David Ridgeon]

They did. When they went to look, the bike was gone. Long story short, there was uncertainty if that was actually hers. They did look into that. And at the end of that sort of investigation, it was kind of concluded the bike actually wasn't hers.

[Mike Simpson]

Oh, did they go to the dump and get it? Because apparently the guy who ran the hotel said he threw it in the garbage.

[David Ridgeon]

Yeah, I don't think they found the bike. But I do believe the person whose bike it was because she was borrowing it said that he saw it and that wasn't hers. So that could be. I know that has been out there, that information. But from what I can gather when reading everything, I don't believe that was hers from what was done at the time.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

But was it Angel's bike? As Vicky is adamant that it was. And can we ever know now that this bike that was seen is irretrievably gone, Thrown out apparently by someone at the hotel. But I have been able to track down another person who remembers seeing Angel's bike and remembers hearing something disturbing.

[David Ridgeon]

Hello?

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Hi, is this Francis?

[Francis]

Yes.

[Mike Simpson]

Hi, Francis, It's David Ridgeon here.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Frances Stockman was married to Kevin Karlach at the time of Angel's disappearance. Kevin is a relative of Angel's. Frances and Kevin were in Whitehorse together in May 2007.

[Mike Simpson]

So go ahead and tell me, what.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Do you remember about seeing angel around.

[Mike Simpson]

The time she disappeared back in May 2007?

[Francis]

We seen her, angel with her grandma and her auntie and Alex and, I don't know, a bunch of other people at her auntie's house in Riverdale. And then I. We didn't see her. I didn't see her ever again after that.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

A reminder that on the weekend after a grad party at Chadburn Lake, angel woke up at her Auntie Darlene's place where there was to be a barbecue later. But she left around midday to look for either a drink or a change of clothes. Police track angel threw sightings until around 9pm that night when she is last seen with two whiter looking men. Frances says she saw angel at some point at a dinner over the weekend. I am not certain which dinner this might have been, but Frances said afterward she never saw angel again. But Frances says she thinks she may have heard her at the family hotel where they were staying in room 214 on the second floor.

[Francis]

It's at the time of day when it's real quiet in the hotel and I heard a girl screaming like they're thrashing around about two doors down from us on the other side of the hall. Like when you first get grabbed and they're trying to throw you down. That's what it sounded like. And there was only one. And there was a thump and a bang and then that was all.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Frances phones the front desk and they tell her that no one is registered in the room. She says she hears the scream come from. Frances goes into the hall after hearing it and says the scream came from a room parallel to hers on the left.

[Francis]

But I didn't see nothing and they said nobody was in there.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Francis says she didn't actually see angel or Anyone, for that matter, at the hotel, following the sounds of yelling and thrashing, do you think you could recognize.

[Mike Simpson]

The voice as being her voice?

[Francis]

I tell you, it haunted me for a long, long time that it might have been her. So there was something in it that made me feel that it might have been her.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

The next morning, Frances and her husband find out that angel is missing. They return to Good Hope and two to three weeks later return to Whitehorse. Pulling into the family hotel again, Frances notices what she says is Angel's bike chained up in the same spot. Vicky told me she saw it.

[Francis]

She was about two spaces in from the end by the door. There's a bike rack in front of the Laundromat at that hotel. Yeah, or there used to be. I don't know if there's now. And it was right there. And we went back, it was still right there, same place.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

If angel was at the family hotel on the weekend she disappeared, then maybe a listener remembers seeing her there, remembers her locking her bicycle. Angel would often visit friends there. I'm told tips like this are important.

[Christy Lee]

Hi, I'm Christy Lee, the creator of Canadian True Crime. Join me for an immersive deep dive into some of the most thought provoking true crime cases in Canada. Using facts curated from court documents, inquiry reports and news archives, I carefully unravel and analyze each case, exposing the pitfalls of the criminal justice system that everyone needs to know about. Find Canadian True Crime wherever you listen to podcasts or visit canadiantruecrime.ca.

[Mike Simpson]

Coming up on my last day here. Just heading out in the early morning, it's raining. Got an interview that came out of some action late day yesterday.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

I've not been able to find Jay, but I did find his sister and she's willing to talk to me. Perhaps she can shed some light on her brother and her dad who allegedly said he had done something to angel.

[Mike Simpson]

Along with her family. She lived out in the Pilot Mountain area at the time that angel disappeared and was murdered. It's a very emotional case, very emotional interviews, difficult to find information without contaminating the case. Because everybody wants you to succeed and everybody's hoping you're focusing on exactly who did it, but you don't know until you know the truth. Isn't the truth until it's the truth.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

We meet next to the Yukon River. I start off asking about Pilot Mountain, where she was raised.

[Wesley]

So I grew up there most of my life and yeah, Pilot Mountain was great. It was really nice to have a lot of area to play with, a lot of outdoorsy things at the time. Kind of grew up, and there were a lot of kids around the same age, which was fantastic.

[Mike Simpson]

And you grew up there and went to school in Whitehorse? Is that how it worked? You'd bus in?

[Wesley]

Yeah, yeah. Still. I mean, it's technically out of city limits, but it's still part of Whitehorse.

[Mike Simpson]

Okay. Yeah. And the people around there did. Growing up there, did you and your family know everybody in the area? In Pilot Mountain, there's just a couple of roads. There's Boreal Road that has a sort of other subdivision there. And then there's the Pilot Mountain area. Did you know everybody up there?

[Wesley]

I wouldn't say we knew everybody, but definitely more people growing up than now. Like, it was different getting on the school bus and you get to meet. I don't even know how many people a school bus fits, but 30 other kids every day get to know some of their families, get to know some of them as friends, and then, yeah, go to school with them for 12, 13 years.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Before I ease into talking about the tip, I have heard about her father. I realize that this woman may have known Jason Beneke, the man who was One of the RCMP's people of interest in Angel's case.

[Wesley]

And, yeah, in terms of Jason, I mean, really, my only memory is that they were neighbors and kids that were younger than me.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

She doesn't know much about Jason Beneke. I've reached out to three members of his family, but I have yet to hear back from any of them. I start to angle towards my second line of questioning. This woman's brother Jay, and her father, Jay, I have heard from two sources, was seen by RCMP on the day Angel's remains were found walking his dog in the area and told to go home by police. Perhaps he was there as a curious onlooker, but I'd like to know more.

[Mike Simpson]

So in the aftermath, police came to question lots of people. And did they come and question your dad and your brother?

[Wesley]

They did come to our property. I don't know who at the time. My brother was house sitting, and they did talk to him. And my parents were out of town, and when they got back to town, I don't actually know if they talked to them or not.

[Mike Simpson]

So I had a tip about your dad. Yesterday. A woman talked to me, said that it seems that there was an admission made of some sort regarding Angel's disappearance or murder. Do you see either your brother or your dad having any involvement in Angel's murder or disappearance?

[Wesley]

I don't See my brother having any involvement at all in Angel's disappearance. And I don't see my dad having any connection whatsoever to Angel. I don't see where there would be.

[Mike Simpson]

They never would have come into contact with each other, you think?

[Wesley]

Not that I'm aware of. And I know all of the houses were addressed or interviewed. However you want to talk to talk that. So in terms of.

[Mike Simpson]

That they were canvassed.

[Wesley]

Yeah, canvassed, that's a great word. But in terms of like being a suspect or interrogated. No.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

I'm hoping I'll be able to find and talk to her brother and father, but I'd like to speak to others first, run through the investigative probabilities. I just wish I had more time in the Yukon.

[Wesley]

Like truly never having heard of her until she. Her body was found. Personally, it just doesn't. I don't. I don't see where the paths would cross. And also, you know, I. I just don't. I mean, it wouldn't be something I would believe without substantive proof.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

We talk a while longer and it's clear she's uncomfortable with the topic of her brother and father for obvious reasons. I think she's told me everything she's able to and we say our goodbyes. I found contact information for her father, but I want to balance learning more about him before I dial the numbers. I drive down Whitehorse's two mile hill one more time. Surrounded by mountains, it's hard to leave. But my time here has come to an end. I'll continue my investigation from Toronto. But before I go, I have one more goodbye, possibly the hardest one.

[Mike Simpson]

Hello.

[Lori]

Hello.

[Mike Simpson]

How are you?

[Lori]

Good. How are you?

[Mike Simpson]

I'm good. So it went okay. So I talked to the RCMP and they didn't really give me too much else extra. They didn't get that tip from the person we talked to though, yesterday. He says he didn't, but I saw the email where she sent it to him, so I'm not sure why he wouldn't have gotten it. But anyway, he's got it now.

[Lori]

Yeah.

[Mike Simpson]

I think I've done as much as I can right now. So in terms of getting everybody to talk and driving you nuts, I think you probably need a break from it as well. I do and I'll keep on it.

[Lori]

Okay. That's a lot of information.

[Mike Simpson]

I'm going to keep on it and phone calls and talking to people as much as I possibly can and that kind of thing. So thanks for all your help, invaluable help.

[Lori]

Thank you for coming up and Looking into her case, it just turned out a lot different than what I thought it would. It is better to know.

[Mike Simpson]

It's just we don't know what we don't know. Right.

[Lori]

I knew I'd be walking into something I would have a heavy truth to.

[Mike Simpson]

Thanks very much.

[Lori]

Okay.

[Mike Simpson]

You okay?

[Lori]

Yeah, I'll be okay.

[Amber]

All right.

[Lori]

Stronger than I look.

[Mike Simpson]

You'll be fine.

[Lori]

Yeah, I'll be here. I'll be hands and feet here for you if you need them.

[Mike Simpson]

Okay.

[Lori]

All right.

[Mike Simpson]

See you later, Lori.

[Lori]

I'll see you.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

I hope I do see Lori and Alex again. They've both let me in to show me their angel, the community's Angel. She's someone very close to the surface in everyone I've met here. And I feel the deep sadness and anger, but I'm also sustained to some extent through a sense of hope. The singing, what we found and what I think can still be done. The groundwork's been laid. I drop by the mural of angel and Wendy. I touch the paint and then drive out of town. But as I said, the investigation into Angel Karlach's disappearance and murder is far from over.

[Unnamed Source]

So I have tried coming forward with this information that I have to the rcmp. And when the name was given, it was kind of like, are you sure you want to proceed with this? We can't guarantee safety, and it's a pretty big risk to come forward with the information that I have. And, yeah, so I just. I worry about that, and I worry about my kids. And I know this person and I know this person is not safe and would probably not stop to find a solution to the information getting out.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

The person this source is talking about isn't Jason Beneke. It isn't Jay's father. It's new information on someone else, a former RCMP officer in Whitehorse.

[Unnamed Source]

And he straight up told me that he would put me under the ground like my little friend angel, and nobody would know what happened to me either.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Someone Knows Something is hosted, written and produced by me, David Ridgeon. The series is also produced by Hadil Abdel Nabi and Zaina Salem. Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Cannell is our digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez, and the director of CBC Podcasts is Arif Noorani. If you want to help new listeners discover the show, please rate and review wherever you listen. You can hear next week's episode now by searching for the CBC Podcasts channel on YouTube or you can hear all seven episodes today by subscribing to the CBC True Crime Premium Channel on Apple Podcasts, where you can binge the full season ad free. Just click on the link in the show description. If you're looking for another series to listen to, check out the Village from CBC Podcasts. Find the Village on the CBC Listen app or wherever you get your podcast. For more CBC Podcasts, go to CBC CA Podcasts.