S8 E7: Take it to the Limit

Summary

Someone Knows Something – Season 8, Episode 7: "Take it to the Limit"

In the gripping Season 8 finale of CBC’s award-winning true crime podcast Someone Knows Something, host David Ridgen delves deep into the unresolved case of Angel Karlach. Titled "Take it to the Limit," this episode unravels the intricate web of suspects, testimonies, and the relentless pursuit of truth that has spanned over a decade. Through candid interviews, heartfelt reflections, and meticulous investigation, Ridgen brings listeners closer to understanding the enigma surrounding Angel’s disappearance and murder.

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Introduction to the Case

The episode opens with David Ridgen reflecting on the enduring challenges of cold case investigations. He shares his ongoing commitment to Angel Karlach’s case, highlighting the personal connections and the emotional toll it has taken on both him and Angel’s family.

David Ridgen [00:01]: “Between 1973 and 1986, the Golden State Killer terrorized Californians.”

Although this quote references another case, it sets the tone for the intensity and dedication Ridgen brings to Angel’s investigation.

Reopening Old Wounds

Ridgen recounts his recent departure from Yukon and his attempts to reconnect with Trevor Brown, the brother of Carrie Brown—a case he continues to explore alongside Angel’s story.

David Ridgen [01:18]: “Carrie’s case is one I continue to look at extensively. All of my investigations continue long after the final episode of the podcast is published and the relationships I build during those investigations remain important to me long term.”

This underscores Ridgen’s dedication to providing closure for affected families, emphasizing the lasting impact of such traumas.

Paying Respects

Returning to Angel’s case, Ridgen describes his visit to Good Hope Lake, where Angel’s resting place is located. He shares poignant moments of laying flowers and reflecting on the serene yet sorrowful setting.

David Ridgen [02:20]: “It’s a beautiful setting, but Wendy has a beautiful carving out there above her grave area. There's not much else to say really. I said I'll be back and hope I can make a difference here. I hope so.”

New Leads and Suspects

The heart of the episode revolves around a chilling tip received from a woman named Jane, who alleges that a former RCMP officer threatened her, referencing Angel’s disappearance.

Jane [04:12]: “He told me that he would put me under the ground like my little friend Angel and nobody would know what happened to me either.”

This revelation introduces “M,” an ex-RCMP officer with a history of violence and misconduct, as a person of interest in Angel’s case. Ridgen meticulously explores Jane’s encounter, attempting to validate her claims and connect them to existing evidence.

Connecting the Dots

Jane mentions another individual, Jason Beneke, who was present during the altercation at the Copper King bar. Ridgen identifies Beneke as a deceased person of interest, further complicating the investigation.

Jane [08:24]: “His name was Jason Beneke, and he is since deceased, I guess.”

Despite multiple attempts, Ridgen struggles to reach Beneke’s family, leaving crucial questions unanswered and highlighting the obstacles in cold case investigations.

Confronting the Suspect

In a pivotal moment, Ridgen manages to contact Trevor Brown, seeking clarity on a disturbing tip involving Brown’s son.

Trevor Brown [18:26]: “I don’t know. I have no idea.”

Brown vehemently denies any involvement with Angel, stating he never met her and had nothing to do with her disappearance.

Trevor Brown [21:12]: “I know I didn’t know the girl. I think I met her dad in Watson Lake. But no, I had nothing to do with that.”

This interaction emphasizes the complexity of distinguishing truth from misleading information, especially when familial relationships are strained.

Community and Family Reflections

As the investigation progresses, Angel’s family and friends share their emotional journeys. Laurie, in particular, speaks about her healing process and the enduring bond she feels with Angel.

Laurie [25:00]: “Working on the case again made me realize what a healing journey I've already done from the time that she went missing to when she was found to a few years later.”

Laurie underscores the importance of community support and the collective yearning for answers, resonating with listeners who have faced similar tragedies.

The Case Remains Open

Despite being the final planned episode for Angel’s case, Ridgen makes it clear that the investigation is far from over. He implores anyone with information to come forward, emphasizing that real justice lies in the collective effort of listening and supporting one another.

David Ridgen [28:37]: “The work here is not done. This is the final planned episode in the case of Angel Karlik, but the investigation continues. If you have any information regarding her murder, the time to come forward is now.”

Closing Thoughts and Legacy

The episode concludes with heartfelt tributes to Angel, reflecting on her vibrant personality and the void her absence has left.

Laurie [26:15]: “It's just, you know, there's parts of her I didn't know, and now I know them. And, you know, it just, it brings more of her to a full picture.”

Ridgen acknowledges the collective efforts of Angel’s community and the podcast team, highlighting the importance of shared narratives in seeking justice and healing.

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Key Takeaways and Insights

• Persistent Investigation: Ridgen’s unwavering commitment to Angel’s case exemplifies the dedication required in solving cold cases, often spanning years with no guarantee of resolution.

• Challenging Testimonies: The involvement of individuals like the former RCMP officer “M” and Jason Beneke complicates the investigation, showcasing the hurdles in verifying testimonies and connecting dots.

• Emotional Impact: The episode poignantly portrays the profound grief and enduring hope of Angel’s family and community, humanizing the victims and their loved ones.

• Community Support: The collective effort of friends, family, and investigators underscores the essential role of community in the pursuit of justice and healing.

Notable Quotes

• Jane [04:45]: “But in this instance, me and this fellow had gotten into an actual fight and he straight up told me that he would put me under the ground like my little friend Angel and nobody would know what happened to me either.” [05:02]

• Trevor Brown [21:12]: “I know I didn’t know the girl. I think I met her dad in Watson Lake. But no, I had nothing to do with that.” [21:12]

• Laurie [25:00]: “Working on the case again made me realize what a healing journey I've already done from the time that she went missing to when she was found to a few years later.” [25:00]

• David Ridgen [28:37]: “The work here is not done. This is the final planned episode in the case of Angel Karlik, but the investigation continues. If you have any information regarding her murder, the time to come forward is now.” [28:37]

Conclusion

"Take it to the Limit" masterfully encapsulates the complexities of cold case investigations, the resilience of those seeking answers, and the enduring quest for justice. Through meticulous storytelling and empathetic interviews, Someone Knows Something invites listeners to reflect on the unseen struggles of grieving families and the persistent hope that one day, the truth will emerge. As Ridgen emphasizes, the collective effort and unwavering dedication of a community can keep the memory of victims like Angel Karlach alive, ensuring that their stories are never forgotten.

Transcript

[David Ridgeon]

Between 1973 and 1986, the Golden State Killer terrorized Californians.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

He scoped out the homes he would enter. Police would find cigarettes under a tree by a window. So he was frequently there at the window, in the backyard, in the dark.

[David Ridgeon]

I'm Kathleen Goldthar and this week on Crime why it took police more than 40 years to identify the Golden State Killer. Find Crime Story wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Sorry, my dad and I are unavailable right now. Please leave a message out to the beep and one of us will get back to you as soon as possible. Bye for now. Hey Trevor, it's Dave Ridgeon here. Sorry wasn't able to get back to you right away there up in the Yukon. It was a pretty hectic and troubling case and situation. So anyway, on my way out for now. I'm still working on it of course, but like to catch up with you guys and hope you're well. Talk soon. Take care. Bye.

[David Ridgeon]

Departing Yukon and returning a call to Trevor Brown, the brother of 15 year old Carrie Brown, who was murdered in Thompson, Manitoba in 1986. Carrie's case is one I continue to look at extensively. All of my investigations continue long after the final episode of the podcast is published and the relationships I build during those investigations remain important to me long term. Grief and trauma is a patient and unpredictable thing, so I want to check in to make sure that everyone is alright. Trevor and all the family members I've worked with have provided ongoing support for me, whether they knew it or not, since I met and worked closely with them over many years. But Trevor isn't home. He's at his new job at a Thompson grocery store. So I decided to take the long way home and stop in at Good Hope Lake, northern British Columbia, one more time to pay my respects to angel and Wendy.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Just stopped into Angel's Wendy and Angel's resting place just down the street from the Good Hope Lake community. Got some photos of the grave and flowers and plastic flowers. It's a beautiful setting, but Wendy has a beautiful carving out there above her grave area. There's not much else to say really. I said I'll be back and hope I can make a difference here. I hope so.

[David Ridgeon]

Leaving Whitehorse was very difficult for me, but I think I can make some inroads from a distance and there is still a ton to look into. The father who allegedly said he did something to Angel, Jason Benneke from Pilot Mountain, whom police said was a person of interest. The tip about the suspicious man in the truck, the taxi driver and a new and compelling tip.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Hello, Hi, it's Dave Ridgeon here. Thanks so much for your emails. Yeah, you reached the right guy. So tell me what you know or think you know or have heard about Angel's case.

[Jane]

So I was actually friends with her. So I have definitely gotten myself, you know, around some people that you probably shouldn't be around. One of them was an ex member of the RCMP.

[David Ridgeon]

I'm David Ridgeon and this is Someone Knows Something season 8 the Angel Carlot Case episode 7 take it to the Limit.

[Jane]

Right away I had red flags and I didn't want to be around him and I didn't want to anything. But it was a mutual friend's birthday, so we were out and he had made several comments about not being safe to be around and that, you know, if anybody knew what he had done, he just sort of put them away.

[David Ridgeon]

This woman, who I will refer to as Jane, reached out to me and fearing for her safety, has agreed to speak on the condition of confidentiality.

[Christy Lee]

Her tip all starts, she says, with.

[David Ridgeon]

A now ex RCMP officer who at one time worked with the White Horse Detachment, someone she met in the winter of 2014 or 2015 at a local bar one night after being introduced to him through mutual friends.

[Jane]

But in this instance, me and this fellow had gotten into an actual fight and he straight up told me that he would put me under the ground like my little friend angel and nobody would know what happened to me either.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay, and so the circumstances were, how.

[David Ridgeon]

Did the fight start?

[Dave Ridgeon]

For example? Let's start there.

[Jane]

I dumped a pitcher of beer on his head because he called me a cunt.

[Dave Ridgeon]

And what bar was it?

[Jane]

The Copper King.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay.

[Christy Lee]

Is that bar still there?

[Jane]

Yes. He felt like I was leaving his cousin on and then I poured the pitcher of beer over his head and yeah, he told me not to fuck around or he would do what he did to my little friend Angela. Something like that. I can't remember the exact, but it was frightening. And it was enough for me to not have anything to do with him. It was enough to sober me up.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Now, did he say under the ground? Did he say put you under the ground? Is that his exact words?

[Jane]

I mean, it was. I can't say for sure if that was the exact terms because I was, you know, quite intoxicated and, you know, this is a long time ago.

[Corporal Simpson]

Now.

[Christy Lee]

The Copper King bar is located along the Alaska highway just north of downtown Whitehorse. I've just heard two quite different versions of what was Allegedly said. If either of the utterances were made to Jane, both imply at least that this man may know something about what happened to Angel. Jane tells me what happened next.

[Jane]

He flipped out. And then I just, like. I immediately dodged him as he was sort of swinging at me. Apparently, he went after the bartender, too, but I had vacated.

[Dave Ridgeon]

And was there anybody else present there?

[Jane]

There was a lot of people there. I'm not sure, you know, who all knew this. I have talked to my one friend, and she swears that this person would never do that.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Does she recall hearing him say that?

[Jane]

No.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay. And is there anybody that you've been able to find that was there that night, for example, that remembers hearing him utter those words?

[Jane]

No.

[David Ridgeon]

Jane tells me that except for her and her friend, many of the people at the Copper King that night were friends or family of the ex RCMP officer.

[Dave Ridgeon]

And how did he know that you knew Angel?

[Jane]

I talked about her a lot.

[Dave Ridgeon]

How long did you know angel, and under what circumstances?

[Jane]

Well, under not very good circumstances. We drank together. You know, I wouldn't go so far as to say, like, best friends or, you know, we were having sleepovers at each other's places or anything, but, you know, we were definitely friends. All she wanted to do was help people.

[Dave Ridgeon]

And how old were you when you knew her? Like, you know, this must be like, 17. Okay, and then what year was that?

[Jane]

2000. I would say between 2003 and 2006.

[David Ridgeon]

I want to get back to that night, searching for more detail when Jane volunteers something surprising to the equation.

[Jane]

And then there was another fellow who arrived that night and picked something up. I have no idea what it was.

[David Ridgeon]

Another fellow who picked something up from the man who threatened her.

[Jane]

His name was Jason Beneke, and he is since deceased, I guess.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Who?

[Christy Lee]

How did you bring in that name?

[Dave Ridgeon]

Can you just back up and tell me how Jason Beneke fits in?

[Jane]

He just showed up there. He had some sort of business to do with the other gentleman.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Jason Beneke was there that night when he poured the beer on his face.

[David Ridgeon]

But shortly, Jason Benneke, a person of interest in Angel's case who lived on Pilot Mountain. Jane has no idea that I have looked at Jason Beneke. She has no idea that he was an RCMP person of interest. The connectivity could mean absolutely nothing, but it certainly grabbed my attention. How does his name come into this tip about this RCMP guy?

[Jane]

They both went outside, and then the other gentleman came back inside. I don't know what they did, but I do know that Jason carried some pretty serious Guilt about something that had happened. I happened to know Jason through his sister, and there was something that had happened in 2007 during a time when he was known to be, you know, using drugs heavily, and the gentleman had referred to Jason as his worker.

[David Ridgeon]

What Jane knows about Jason and what she suspects are different things. I have no idea if Jane knows anything about Jason Beneke, but when she says that she knows his family, I jump at the chance to make another connection with them. But she says she's not been in touch with him for a long time. I try contacting Jason's brother, his sister, and his father on the phone, in email, and on Facebook. None get back to me. I think they must have received my extensive messages, but I cannot be sure. I do not mention Jason and the messages, just that I want to talk to people who lived on Pilot Mountain at the time of Angel's disappearance. They may know nothing. They may not want to talk after they lost Jason. Nobody can or should guess the reasons.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay, so. But Jason Beneke is not the person you're telling me you poured the beer on?

[Jane]

No.

[Christy Lee]

Okay.

[Dave Ridgeon]

But Jason is in some way connected to that person, you're saying?

[Jane]

100%.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Tell me a bit more if you know any more about Jason Beneke, like his behavior, anything he used to do out at Pilot Mountain there, he used to do drugs.

[Jane]

I never actually hung out with him when he was living out at Pilot Mountain. I do know that that's where the family lived and where all the kids grew up.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay, and how do you know he.

[Christy Lee]

Used to do drugs?

[Jane]

Because I used to do drugs with him. I have done drugs with him. I've bought drugs off of him. I mean, the list goes on to how I know he does that, so.

[David Ridgeon]

Or did that using drugs or selling them. Doesn't mean the person doing it had anything to do with killing someone, let alone Angel. I include the details here because they are intertwined with the story I'm being told about this former RCMP officer. I'll have to ask Corporal Simpson about him. Maybe they've already ruled him out. I asked Jane if she ever talked to RCMP about her experience.

[Jane]

I come forward with the rcmp, and when I went through with the. Like, started to talk to them and I gave the name of the person, he stopped me, immediately, asked me if I was sure I wanted to proceed with the statement and with the information and that they couldn't guarantee my safety, and I stopped right there.

[Christy Lee]

And then after that, you said, see you later.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So tell me who this person is. That you dumped the beer on.

[Christy Lee]

And she tells me I'm keeping his name anonymous for now and shall refer to him as M. Currently mid-50s, born in the Yukon and lived there for most of his life. He became an officer with the White Horse RCMP in the late 80s. Over a 15 year span, M established a pattern of violence and misconduct, resulting in internal RCMP investigations with unknown results. From what I can tell, he worked for some time in Alberta, but then left law enforcement on his own. His charges include dangerous driving, assault, harassment, uttering threats, mischief, and one for weapons. By 2007, he was back in Whitehorse, where he was in and out of jail or on probation. But in the weeks surrounding Angel's disappearance, he was not incarcerated. M was harassing a woman at the time that had had a restraining order placed on him. A couple of days before, angel disappeared outside of the Casa Loma motel bar about 20 km south of Pilot Mountain. M beat a man so badly that the victim was unable to dial 911 on his phone and spent a week in hospital, unable to walk. Documents around this May 2007 assault say em was trying to find cocaine that night. In November 2007, he was sentenced to 10 months in jail and two years probation. Witnesses at the trial said that Em's temper took over. Was this the same temper that Jane allegedly witnessed when she met him seven years later?

[Dave Ridgeon]

Did you ever see again after that incident?

[Jane]

Yeah, but I never got out of my vehicle and I didn't talk to him like I wanted nothing to do with him.

[David Ridgeon]

I wonder if our CMP would have kept any partial tip on file or even a record of the call Jane says she made. Jane says she's sure she gave her name, but she did not give her phone number and no police ever called her back. If I'm going to follow this lead, I'll need more information.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Oh, hey, is this Mike?

[Mike]

Yeah, it is indeed.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Hey, Mike, it's Daybridge and calling. How are you?

[David Ridgeon]

I'm Corporal Simpson in Whitehorse. Phone reception is poor because of his location. After a chat about police procedure and recording tips, it seems to vary with the individual. I move right into M, so I.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Won'T go into total detail on the tip, but I'm basically trying to find truth markers and just wanted to understand the truth of the matter and what was being told to me, so. But the tip involved a former RCMP officer named. Is that a name that's familiar to you?

[Mike]

No, not at all.

[David Ridgeon]

Simpson says he looks through Angel's file, but he doesn't remember hearing or seeing the name.

[Dave Ridgeon]

I kind of need to get a.

[David Ridgeon]

Little bit deeper into it.

[Dave Ridgeon]

But you can't say you remember seeing name in there.

[Mike]

No, just doing a quick search. He's not a name I know he certainly wasn't one of the. Because there are quite a few members that were, you know, kind of noted on this file.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah.

[Mike]

For the months. But no interesting name I know. And not a name on the file.

[Christy Lee]

Simpson says there's no mention of M in Angel's file. No record of the tip. I need to find M.

[Corporal Simpson]

Hi, I'm Christy Lee, the creator of Canadian True Crime. Join me for an immersive deep dive into some of the most thought provoking true crime cases in Canada. Using facts curated from court documents, inquiry reports and news archives, I carefully unravel and analyze each case, exposing the pitfalls of the criminal justice system that everyone needs to know about. Find Canadian True Crime wherever you listen to podcasts or visit canadiantruecrime.ca.

[Dave Ridgeon]

I'm going.

[Christy Lee]

To try calling where he lives now and see what he has to say about Comments I heard from a tipster.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Who called and said that they had.

[Christy Lee]

Met at a bar, a bar called the Copper King.

[Jason Beneke]

The number you have reached is not in service. Please check the number and try your call again.

[Christy Lee]

No, you're kidding.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Try that again. Fuck me.

[Jason Beneke]

The numbering. The breach is not in service.

[Christy Lee]

Come on.

[Jason Beneke]

Check the number and try your call again.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay, that number was out of service, so I think I'll have to try to call Brother who I think he might live with. So hopefully this call will go through.

[Jason Beneke]

The number you have reached is not in service. Please check the number and try your call again.

[Dave Ridgeon]

That number also out of service. Let's try again.

[Jason Beneke]

The number you have reached is not in service.

[Dave Ridgeon]

That sucks.

[Jason Beneke]

Please check the number and try your call again.

[Christy Lee]

After many different attempts, I can't get a hold of em to verify what, if anything, was said that night at the Copper King.

[Trevor Brown]

Hello?

[David Ridgeon]

But there is someone who I am able to catch up with, someone I've been very interested in talking to.

[Trevor Brown]

Hang on, I'm just pulling my vehicle over.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Oh, okay.

[Trevor Brown]

Okay. Hi there. Who am I talking at?

[Christy Lee]

I've been told that the man I've just reached had said something inculpatory or self incriminating about Angel. I heard it from two people, Amber and Wesley.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Like all I can remember was they said don't make me do to you what I did to Angel Carlik.

[David Ridgeon]

So I finally found this man and he has pulled over at the Side of a highway to talk to me. I tell him who I am and that I'm calling about Angel's case.

[Trevor Brown]

I'm not very good way with words.

[Dave Ridgeon]

But yeah, it's definitely a case that needs to be solved. And I had a tip come in that said that they had heard your son telling a story one night about something that you had said to him in an argument. And I just want to know if you remember this argument just so I can verify this. You said something like, don't make me do to you what I did to Angel Karlach or something like that. So basically saying you had done something to Angel. Do you remember that conversation?

[Trevor Brown]

No, I. No, I don't.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Did you mention angel to him is the thing?

[Trevor Brown]

No.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Had you ever met angel before?

[Trevor Brown]

No, I hadn't. But I was working down at Watson Lake that summer. I'm a road builder. And we were home the morning the choppers were flying out because my wife and I were flying out on holiday. My ex wife.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay.

[Trevor Brown]

And so when they came to interview the neighbors, my son and his friends were there and they just asked if I would mind calling in when I got back.

[David Ridgeon]

Oh, okay.

[Trevor Brown]

So I did and answered all the questions that I could. And then I moved down to Alberta in 2010.

[Dave Ridgeon]

All right, so you divorced. You divorced or left your wife, I guess, and then went to Alberta.

[Trevor Brown]

Basically.

[David Ridgeon]

Recall this tip originated from this man's son. Based on people I've spoken to, the father son dynamic isn't great.

[Dave Ridgeon]

What's your relationship like with your son right now?

[Trevor Brown]

I haven't talked to him for two years.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay.

[Trevor Brown]

And I'm not allowed to talk to my wife or daughter for another two, three years.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So you. So you can tell me you didn't do anything to angel then yourself?

[Trevor Brown]

I know I didn't know the girl. I think I met her dad in Watson Lake. But no, I had nothing to do with that.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Why do you think he would have come up with that? Why would he have told his friend that story, do you think? To say his dad said that about Angel Karlach?

[Trevor Brown]

I have no idea.

[David Ridgeon]

He denies doing anything to Angel. He denies making any statement to his son to that effect. His son is near impossible to find, unhoused and unstable. Where to go with a tip like this?

[Dave Ridgeon]

So just so you know, because I know that you were extremely upset about that interview. I just wanted you to know that he had denied it.

[David Ridgeon]

Yeah, I let Lori know I spoke to the men involved in Amber's tip, and she knows the other people. I'm still trying to contact to ask questions.

[Christy Lee]

The former RCMP officer, the taxi driver.

[David Ridgeon]

Who may have lived in Pilot Mountain.

[Christy Lee]

The fellow who a tipster says she.

[David Ridgeon]

Saw in a red truck out on Pilot Mountain, who she says used to proposition indigenous women.

[Christy Lee]

All are proving difficult to locate. And if anybody can help, please let me know. But I will keep trying.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So rest assured that the investigation's continuing. This is the point where I'm making all these calls and trying to get people to talk to me. So, I mean, part of the benefit of being up there with you was that everybody wanted to talk to me because you were there, and I wouldn't have been able to do anything without you there. So you know that, right?

[Laurie]

I think so, yeah.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah. Because who's going to talk to me, like, you know, just in a short period of time? Like, you know, I would have to stay up there for months to get people to talk to me. And, you know, I think just being you really helped make that happen. So the podcast basically is going to be dedicated to you and to Alex because I wouldn't have been able to do any of it. And it was really upsetting and I was glad you were there with me because it was a tough thing to share.

[Laurie]

It was. It's.

[Dave Ridgeon]

You don't have to.

[Laurie]

It's just, you know, like over a year's time, your brain really, your mind wanders.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah, yeah.

[Laurie]

Like, personally, it's been a bit of a healing journey. Like, I can talk about angel without bursting into tears and just people knowing that there are people still looking for her. It's also because it's not just me. There's been friends that have come up to me and said, I've always wondered what happened. And I'm like, oh, it's still unsolved, but if we keep it out there, you know, it can be solved. I full heartedly believe that.

[David Ridgeon]

Working cases for me takes many months, even years. Through that time, I stay in touch with the family members and friends I've worked with to see if anything has changed. Changed in the aftermath of the initial work, but also if anything has changed for them. Since my trip to Whitehorse, I've stayed in contact with both Alex and Laurie. Alex is doing very well at work back in Good Hope Lake Lori has, like Alex, been feeling the brunt of Angel's disappearance for years. And Laurie, being in Whitehorse has also tirelessly worked to help me with any request I have.

[Laurie]

And then with working on the case again, it made me realize what a healing journey I've already Done from the time that she went missing to when she was found to a few years later. Just going through all those motions to where I am now and kind of seeing that, how angel molded me, not just from when she was alive and here, but as a First nations woman. Going through this, you know, and noticing that I'm not the only one that has unanswered questions. It also makes me feel a lot closer to her. Just, you know, there's parts of her I didn't know, and now I know them. And, you know, it just, it. It brings more of her to a full picture. Not just what I thought of her or saw her as. It was how her friends saw her and her acquaintances, her co workers. You know, it brings her back to life a little calm, quiet.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

She always had a hug and a smile, always.

[Dave Ridgeon]

She was an awesome girl. And we lost a great contributor to society. I think about her every day in my life. I was always Happy Go Lucky. That was her nickname, Happy Go Lucky.

[Laurie]

You know, one of the things that we do with the dead is that we paint them up to this great, grand picture and we kind of smudge over their rough edges and we create something quite wonderful and beautiful. And there was parts that I ultimately edited out. And then it brings her back into a full, rounded picture and helps me with my healing journey, not making up events or situations in my head that are like, well, you know, she did party and she did have a wild side, but she was still a beautiful person. That is healing that I, you know, you see a whole rounded young girl and a lot of her friends at this age, like, she just had her 35th birthday and a lot of her friends have children or just having children or engaged. And it makes me wonder, like, would she have smoothened those rough edges? Would she be a mother?

[Christy Lee]

What would Angel's life have been like had she not disappeared in the summer of 2007? Here's what we know about her case so far. Angel Karlach was discovered in a grave four to six feet deep on Pilot Mountain, Yukon, just as the snow began to fall in November 2007. Forensic evidence to date has provided no useful leads. Angel was brought here by a person or possibly multiple people who had likely.

[David Ridgeon]

Been here before and never, ever thought she would be found. Her mother, Wendy, was Angel's voice, along with Alex, her brother. And then Wendy was murdered. And it's just Alex now looking for answers.

[Christy Lee]

But Laurie and a community of family and friends of angel are there with him.

[David Ridgeon]

It's been a privilege to be addressed here by the community with a respect we all must return because the real justice is in the listening, the making of space for storytelling and for learning about our mistakes and our transgressions. Real justice is about our support of each other, a far greater power than any and for it not to go to waste. The work here is not done. This is the final planned episode in the case of Angel Karlik, but the investigation continues. If you have any information regarding her murder, the time to come forward is now.

[Laurie]

I'm praying to the ancestors all the time to help Ethan and myself and obviously the rest of Angel's friends and family. And I just think that paying attention to the other cases on around Canada, you know, you get a feeling that you you're not alone in it. It's very hard and everything is individualized, but it's also whole at the same time.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

I went to Ottawa and we did a gathering and we just talk about our daughters and sons and show them pictures and tell them stories and how government should work together and figure out how to make it a stronger situation so government can push more and then things will happen because, you know, everybody's involved when they investigate a missing and murdered person. There's a lot of people involved. Why it's not happening, I don't know. Why is it taking so long? I really do not know.

[David Ridgeon]

Someone Knows Something is hosted, written and produced by me, David Ridgeon.

[Christy Lee]

The series is also produced by Hadil.

[David Ridgeon]

Abdel Nabi and Zaina Salem. Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Cannell is our digital producer. Our podcast art was designed by Ellie Coda. Our cross promo producer is Amanda Cox. Our video producer is Evan Agard.

[Christy Lee]

Special thanks to Phelan Johnson.

[David Ridgeon]

Executive producers are Cecil Fernandez and Chris og. Tanya Springer is our senior manager. Arif Noorani is the director and Leslie Merklinger is the executive director of CBC Podcasts.

[Christy Lee]

If you want to help new listeners discover the show, please rate and review. Wherever you listen, find us on Facebook by searching Someone Knows something or on InstagramBCpodcasts.

[Dave Ridgeon]

You can also stream Someone Knows Something on YouTube.

[Christy Lee]

Just search for CBC Podcasts. If you're looking for more investigations, check out the past seasons of Someone Knows Something. From a mysterious bomb hidden in a flashlight to two teenagers killed by the kkk. Find Someone Knows Something on the CBC Listen app or wherever you get your podcast.

[David Ridgeon]

For more CBC Podcasts, go to CBC CA Podcasts.