S9 E2: Ringel

Summary

Someone Knows Something - Season 9, Episode 2: Ringle

Host: David Ridgen
Production: CBC
Episode Focus: The confession of Anthony Ringle to the murder of Christine Heron and the subsequent unraveling of the case.

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Introduction: Reopening a Long-Standing Mystery

In Season 9 of the acclaimed true crime podcast Someone Knows Something, host David Ridgen delves into the chilling disappearance of Christine Heron, a teenage book lover from Hanover, Ontario. Christine vanished in the spring of 1993, and despite a suspect confessing to her murder, the case faltered, leaving her family without answers. This episode, titled "Ringle," revisits the case years later as Ridgen, alongside Christine's mother Mary Ann and her stepfather Sean Russworm, confronts Anthony Ringle—the man who allegedly confessed to her murder.

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Anthony Ringle's Confession

The episode opens with the discovery of Ringle’s confession, which surfaced 11 years after Christine's disappearance. In August 2004, during a family gathering in Elmwood, Ontario, Ringle unexpectedly declared, "I killed Christine Heron" (04:22). This confession sent shockwaves through the community and reignited the investigation into Christine's disappearance.

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Police Investigation: The Interrogation Process

Initial Interview:

Shortly after his confession, Ringle was apprehended and taken to the Walkerton Police Station. In his first police interview at 04:46, Ringle maintained silence, responding only with "No comments" despite multiple attempts by Officer Sean Russworm to elicit more information (05:07). His demeanor was one of reluctance and avoidance, leaving investigators puzzled.

Second Interview with Detective Inspector Mark Wright:

The following morning, Detective Inspector Mark Wright, a seasoned OPP officer with 24 years of experience, conducted a more intensive interrogation. Wright questioned Ringle about his motives, pressing him with questions such as, "Why did you dial 911?" and "Do you feel better that you've got this off your chest?" (12:07). Ringle admitted he wanted to "get away" from his family, indicating a desire to escape his personal struggles (12:55).

Behavioral Analysis with Detective Sergeant Martin Graham:

Detective Sergeant Martin Graham from the OPP's Behavioral Sciences Unit took a different approach, aiming to break through Ringle's defenses. Graham's strategy involved creating a rapport and encouraging Ringle to recount the events leading to his confession. At 17:06, Ringle began to open up slightly, mentioning, "I met her at the park in Hanover" (17:51). This marked the first instance of Ringle acknowledging a direct encounter with Christine on the day of her disappearance.

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Ringle’s Background and Motives

Anthony Ringle, born December 10, 1968, was one of six children in Hanover. At the time of Christine's disappearance, he was unemployed and occasionally referred to himself as a "slow learner," with records indicating significant learning difficulties and childhood head injuries (07:14). These factors may have contributed to his mental state and his eventual confession.

Ringle's confession appears rooted in his desire for attention and a way to cope with his personal issues. At one point, he states, "I'm sorry for what I've done," reflecting remorse intertwined with his ambiguous statements about truth and deceit (26:04).

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The Search for Christine Heron's Remains

Following Ringle's confession, the OPP conducted searches based on his directions. Equipped with suits and dress shoes, officers navigated the treacherous, marshy terrain near the Saugeen River, marked years earlier with OPP-printed ribbons serving as search markers (01:22). Despite their efforts, no remains were found during these subsequent searches, questioning the validity of Ringle's confession.

Ringle's insistence on showing the location of Christine's remains led police to revisit areas that had never been searched during the initial investigation. However, the decomposed state of any potential evidence made it exceedingly difficult to uncover concrete proof (03:51).

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Trial and Legal Proceedings

By April 2006, preparations were underway for Ringle's trial. The Crown attorney expressed high confidence in securing a conviction, mentioning, "At one point he was 90% sure Ringle was going to be convicted" (27:44). However, the trial did not proceed as expected. Mary Ann Heron, Christine's mother, expressed profound frustration and anger towards the OPP and local police, stating, "They screwed up. I've got more anger towards the OPP and the town cops than I do Ringle" (28:01).

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Ongoing Doubts and Unresolved Questions

Despite Ringle’s confession and the exhaustive investigation, Christine Heron's body was never found, casting doubt on the case's resolution. Mary Ann Heron's lingering resentment highlights the unresolved nature of the investigation and the community's distrust in the handling of the case. The lack of concrete evidence and the eventual breakdown of the prosecution left Christine’s family yearning for genuine closure.

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Conclusion: A Family's Quest for Justice

Someone Knows Something Season 9, Episode 2: "Ringle" paints a haunting picture of a family grappling with the haunting disappearance of their daughter. While Anthony Ringle's confession provided a glimmer of hope, the absence of physical evidence and the subsequent mishandling of the case by authorities left many questions unanswered. Christine Heron's family continues to seek the truth, embodying the podcast's mission to uncover the hidden facets of unsolved cases and deliver justice to those left in the shadows.

Notable Quotes:

• Anthony Ringle (04:22): "I killed Christine Heron."
• Sean Russworm (05:07): "Do you remember talking to a police officer last night? Remember talking to one?"
• Mary Ann Heron (28:01): "They screwed up. I've got more anger towards the OPP and the town cops than I do Ringle."

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Production Credits:

• Host: David Ridgen
• Producer: Katie Swires
• Sound Design: Evan Kelly
• Transcription: Natalia Ferguson
• Digital Production: Emily Cannell
• Story Editor: Chris Oak
• Executive Producer: Cecil Fernandez
• Senior Manager: Tanya Springer
• CBC Podcasts Director: Arif Noorani

Someone Knows Something continues to seek truth and justice in unsolved cases, providing listeners with in-depth investigative journalism and compelling narratives. To support the series and help new listeners discover the show, please rate and review it on your preferred podcast platform.

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Find More:

• Transcripts: CBC Podcast News Transcripts
• Social Media: Search Someone Knows Something on Facebook and Instagram.
• Additional Series: Explore Uncover from CBC Podcasts for more investigative stories.

Transcript

[David Ridgeon]

Who is the dad? For years, a Canadian lab promised people the answer.

[Mary Ann]

It's obviously legit. It's a DNA company, but one by.

[Sean Russworm]

One, its prenatal paternity tests gave people the wrong answer. You're the company that's supposed to provide me with results.

[David Ridgeon]

I was pissed. This is the story of our investigation into how it all happened and a.

[Sean Russworm]

Company that continues to stand by its testing.

[David Ridgeon]

Listen to uncover bad results everywhere. You get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast.

[Mary Ann]

It's pretty thick and it's all wet and marshy. It's the first time I've been here. The OPP were going to bring me down and then they never followed through. I don't think you would find anybody in here. Yeah, there's another blue one hanging there. See, there's all kinds of ribbons over in there. There another one over there by the water at the bend. Yeah.

[Sean Russworm]

Yep.

[David Ridgeon]

I'm with Chrissy's mom, Mary Ann and her stepfather, Sean Russworm, in a wooded area of spruce and cedar across the river from Hanover Park. Ribbons of red, blue and pink hang limply from some of the trees and a few are mixed in with the dirt and leaves on the ground. OPP for Ontario Provincial Police in bold black letters is stamped on all of them. Signs of a search for Chrissy.

[Mary Ann]

Yeah, the ribbons will be the areas that they searched or we're searching, just as markers so they know where to come back to, where they search and where they haven't, I guess. Yeah, there's water like a sword swamp right there, too. I don't know what that would be.

[David Ridgeon]

Marianne has literally stumbled on a pile of green tinged bones on the ground.

[Mary Ann]

Probably deer, I imagine.

[Sean Russworm]

I'd say deer.

[Mary Ann]

Yeah, because that's the skull.

[Sean Russworm]

Looks like the part of the spine.

[Mary Ann]

Yeah, it looks like the spine.

[Sean Russworm]

Is that part of the spine? Wow. Just saw how fast they sink into the ground and start to decompose.

[Mary Ann]

And this is the side that I was more worried that even if Chrissy had come across on her own and climbed a tree and fell out and got hurt and could have been laying here hurt, not even have somebody do something to her.

[David Ridgeon]

When did you first ask them to search?

[Mary Ann]

The first week she went missing. The first few days I wanted them to search this side of the park as well as the other side, they refused to do it. They wouldn't look.

[David Ridgeon]

These cold plastic search markers that we're seeing come from a time over a decade after that first week of Chrissy's disappearance. In fact, this area west of the Saugeen river was never searched until after a man named Anthony Edward Ringle came forward and confessed.

[Mary Ann]

And if they would have searched at the time, the gravesite would have been fresh. But now it's been too long.

[David Ridgeon]

I'm David Ridgeon and this is Someone Knows Something Season 9 the Christine Heron Case Episode 2 Ringle.

[Sean Russworm]

You sleeping? For a little bit. Just have a seat over that blue chair.

[David Ridgeon]

In a blue chair in the corner of an interrogation room slouches a 35 year old man. He's wearing a black Adidas shirt, about 5 foot 6 with blunt features and long though sparse hair. This is Anthony Ringle. Opposite 2 Seated police in white shirts. This is the first interview undertaken by OPP investigators at the Walkerton Station in August 2004, just hours after Ringle's confession at a family gathering.

[Sean Russworm]

Now I understand that you wanted to talk to me about something. Something that you wanted to get off your chest. Something that's been bothering you. What questions? No comments.

[David Ridgeon]

No questions. No comments. Says Ringel, speaking low and looking down, arms crossed.

[Sean Russworm]

Told that snake by a horn that happened. Well, here's the thing. You've already told your cousin about this and you've already talked to the officer about this. What we would like to do, if you know where Chrissy is, we would like to get Chrissy away from there and I think she deserves that. And only of you can help us with that. And I promised her mother that I would find out where she was so that we could get her a decent Christian burial. I hadn't used it. Been bothering you for a long time. You don't want to let it keep bothering me. Look at me, Anthony. Her sits in the ground somewhere. She just needs her to be alone. You can help me with that. Anthony really wanted to help. No comments.

[David Ridgeon]

No comments. Ringel says again here to the police. And yet he had been talking quite a bit to them and others just a short while earlier.

[Mary Ann]

What the OPP told us was Anthony Ringo was at several parties and had confessed to other party members that he had done it. That he murdered Chrissy.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle's confession comes 11 years after Chrissy's disappearance. Eleven years of police work that never pointed at Anthony Ringel. Anthony was born on December 10, 1968, one of six children. He had worked at a local Canadian Tire but was unemployed in May 1993. Anthony would sometimes refer to himself as a slow learner. Records show Ringle experienced significant learning difficulties at school and had apparently suffered head injuries as a child. Police would sometimes call him Tony.

[Sean Russworm]

Hey, Tony. Tony, can you look over at me, please? Why not? No problem.

[David Ridgeon]

According to court and police documents, the events that bring Ringle into the Walkerton station for questioning all begin at a family birthday party that Ringle attends August 22, 2004 in the small crossroads community of Elmwood, Ontario. By evening, Ringle ends up at the home of a relative. After drinking about five beers and inhaling what he says is some secondhand marijuana, Ringle becomes upset with his family for some reason and proceeds to tell relatives and others present that he murdered someone named Christine. He dials 911, but then hangs up without saying anything. His relatives try to calm him down.

[Sean Russworm]

Do you remember talking to a police officer last night? Remember talking to one? Oh my. You want your lawyer? Yeah. You want a lawyer Here?

[David Ridgeon]

Before I say anything, Ringle says. After Ringle's aborted emergency call from his cousin's place in Elmwood, an OPP constable named Brad Lipski is alerted by police dispatch around 10:30pm that there had been a 911 hang up call at the Elmwood address.

[Sean Russworm]

Now, Tony, look, earlier Tonight you phoned 911 and he wanted to talk to the officer.

[David Ridgeon]

Lipski arrives at the apartment, gathering in his squad car and climbs some stairs to speak to one of Ringle's cousins. At some point, Constable Lipski turns and sees someone walking up toward him. It's Ringle, and he's holding his hands out, palms together, seemingly as if to be handcuffed.

[Sean Russworm]

And he said that you were responsible for Christine Harry disappearing.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle then says to Lipski, I did it. Take me away. Then a short time later, Ringle tells him, I killed Christine. Christine who? Says Lipski. And Ringle replies, christine Harris. Christine Heron. I can show you where I buried her. I need to get this over with. Keep going straight. I'll show you where he confessed to the cop. You may know.

[Sean Russworm]

Actually, no. I know.

[David Ridgeon]

Let's keep going. Is this Elmwood?

[Sean Russworm]

Yes, it is.

[David Ridgeon]

Keep going straight.

[Sean Russworm]

You don't know. Did you marry him? Where Anthony confessed at the time?

[Mary Ann]

No.

[David Ridgeon]

Officer Lipski arrests Rangel for murder and places him in his cruiser. Soon thereafter, around 11pm, Ringle's mother Loretta arrives after being called in by the worried relatives. Lipski explains to Ringle's mother that Ringle had just told him that he killed a girl named Christine. The mother tells Lipski that years earlier a girl named Christine Heron went missing. Whereupon Ringle, who has been listening through the cruiser door, speaks to his mother, saying, remember the girl named Christine. There was a party I believe in that house.

[Sean Russworm]

Mm.

[David Ridgeon]

That one there.

[Sean Russworm]

This one here? Yep.

[David Ridgeon]

He got out. That's. These are the addresses in the documents. He confessed to his mother there. And he went in there and that's where the cop cuffed him, near those stairs there. Constable Lipski then drives Ringle to the Walkerton detachment. Ringle urges Lipski to take him to Hanover, only 10 minutes away, because he wants to show him something. Instead, Lipski takes Ringle to Walkerton and reads him his right to counsel, advising him he can speak to a lawyer if he wants to. Ringle replies that he does. Lipski then calls legal aid for Ringle and then after that, his OPP superiors. This call brings in several police investigators.

[Sean Russworm]

Okay, My name is Mark Wright. I'm a detective inspector with the opp. Okay? Make sure you speak, Anthony. See up on the roof there? Those are microphones. So we gotta make sure that we get your voice. So there's no point in this. Okay?

[David Ridgeon]

Detective Inspector Mark Wright, a 24 year veteran with the OPP is the officer in charge of the Heron investigation at the time. He begins this second police interview with Ringel around 5am by now, Ringle has been given a blanket and he sometimes speaks into it, muffling his answers.

[Sean Russworm]

Anthony, Give us your full name. Anthony Edward Ringle. Okay, listen to me very carefully, all right? Right now you're under arrest for the murder of Christine Heron because you told that police officer that you killed her. Remember that? Is that correct? Yes. And then at some point you say, and I'll take you to where she is, or something like that. Is that right? What Exactly. What'd you say? I can show you where she is. That's what you said, right? Okay, so this is some pretty serious stuff, right? So you grab the phone to dial 911, right? And why did you do that? Because I didn't want to be around my family.

[David Ridgeon]

Because he didn't want to be around his family anymore.

[Sean Russworm]

Right. So you did this to make your mother mad or you were mad, so you wanted to go away. So help me understand this, Anthony. But why dial 911? Because you wanted the coppers obviously there to come, right? But you didn't say anything on the phone. No. All right, what were you gonna say, Anthony? I was probably gonna say the same thing. You said, I murdered somebody. So what did you think was gonna happen when you make. When you say something like that? Well, I probably do, but I just want to get arrested. So you got arrested. You got what you were looking for, right? Huh? Okay. Why don't we turn off the tape? It's about 20 after 5. We're going to check some things out.

[David Ridgeon]

The interview eventually ends and Wright escorts Ringle out.

[Sean Russworm]

Today's date is Monday 23rd August 2004. My name is Detective Sergeant Martin Gray. I'm a bachelor.

[David Ridgeon]

But soon another officer comes into the picture named Martin Graham, a detective sergeant with the OPP's Behavioral Sciences Unit.

[Sean Russworm]

Did you kill Crispy Narran? No. Are you telling me the truth?

[David Ridgeon]

I see here Officer Graham also tries to get Ringle to repeat his statements from the night before. But Ringle seems of a different mind.

[Sean Russworm]

Sorry. One of the most important things is to make sure that you tell me the complete truth. All right? Yes. Do you understand how serious this is? Yes. Well, I don't think you'll be, you know, 100% honest with you. And as I said to Anthony, that's what we need for your sake. And tell me what happened. Well, see, that's what I mean. Said things that I shouldn't have said.

[David Ridgeon]

That's what I mean. I'm saying I said things I shouldn't have said. Ringle says.

[Sean Russworm]

I think we should tell them, shouldn't we?

[David Ridgeon]

Graham pushes into the location. Ringle was trying to get Officer Lipski to take him the night before.

[Sean Russworm]

Last night when you and the officer were talking, you really wanted to take that officer to somewhere in Anna. I think it's down by the water, isn't it? Yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

Here. Ringle agrees that the location is by.

[Sean Russworm]

The water, the whereabouts in Canada we've been taking office. Unfortunately for you, he couldn't help you out, take you there last night. But I can do that now because I quite a bit of time.

[David Ridgeon]

It has now been 17 hours since Ringle was taken into police custody and he has not yet appeared before a judge. In police video, Ringle can at times be seen huddling in his blanket and slouching in his seat or drinking coffee. Detective Sergeant Graham tries hard to present a sympathetic embrace to Ringle's situation. And he continues to circle back to the evening before at the party where Ringle made his confessions.

[Sean Russworm]

Something triggered for you last night, mate. I don't know what that is, but I know what happened after the trigger happened is that you felt compelled to tell people that know you that you had done something.

[David Ridgeon]

And eventually, about an hour after, Graham urges Ringle to be truthful. There appears to be something of a.

[Sean Russworm]

Breakthrough because I'm always in these matters. Anytime something happens, there's always a reason why it happened. You were then so overcome because you had finally said it to help yourself out and that's understandable.

[David Ridgeon]

Not going to help me out. Ringle says of course it's going to help you out.

[Sean Russworm]

Of course it is. Don't he I know is any good, Erin.

[David Ridgeon]

Cause then I'll lose everything. Ringle says, head in his hands.

[Sean Russworm]

What are you. You're not gonna lose everything. Yes, I will. No. You're sorry though, about what happened, don't you? You didn't mean it. Did you mean it to happen? What happened? How did you meet her? Was that day she was late for school. How did you meet her down at the park?

[David Ridgeon]

This is the first admission from Ringle during any police interview in custody that he had met Christine Heron on the day she disappeared, May 18, 1993, down at the park.

[Sean Russworm]

And why did you meet her down at the park? Had you been seeing her? No, that was the first time. And what happened? You met her at the park in Hanover. And then what happened? Where did you go from there?

[David Ridgeon]

Across the river. The location in Hanover. Ringel had apparently wanted to show Constable Lipski the before a location next to the Saugeen river across from the town park.

[Mary Ann]

Well across the river there is the Hanover park and that's where Anthony says he met up with Chrissy. And from what I understand, Anthony says he brought Chrissy across. See, even now the water is pretty high. Wouldn't have been too easy coming across back then. I don't know how Ringle willingly even got her across the water. She would have been afraid to have come across.

[David Ridgeon]

As a kid growing up in Chicago, there was one horror movie I was too scared to watch. It was called Candyman. It was about this supernatural killer who.

[Sean Russworm]

Would attack his victims if they said his name five times into a bathroom mirror.

[David Ridgeon]

But did you know that the movie Candyman was partly inspired by an actual murder? I was struck by both how spooky.

[Sean Russworm]

It was, but also how outrageous it was.

[David Ridgeon]

Listen to Candyman, the true story behind the Bathroom Mirror Murder, wherever you get your podcasts by this time in the Ringle interview process, it is end of day, but police take Ringle to Hanover anyway. Wearing suits and dress shoes, they make attempts to follow Ringle through the thickets, slipping and sliding their way in the mud, but to no avail.

[Sean Russworm]

Alrighty, it's 10 to 10 on the 23rd of August. We're at the Walkerton Oppleese.

[David Ridgeon]

Find nothing and return with Ringle around 8:20pm to the Walkerton OPP station where he's offered pepperoni pizza and A drink.

[Sean Russworm]

And Anthony, you're under arrest for the first degree murder of Christine Heron. Correct? You're aware of that, right? Yes or no? Yes.

[David Ridgeon]

With no evidence of Chrissy's remains found, Detective Inspector Wright interviews Ringle again and presents himself as worried that Ringle may be making a false confession and that he wants to give Ringle an opportunity to make an exculpatory statement, one that might serve to absolve him of guilt.

[Sean Russworm]

Okay. You've been cautioned about talking to the police and they've given you your right to counsel, told you you could speak to a lawyer. And as a matter of fact, you've spoken to duty counsel three different times today. Right? They told me that I was supposed to go get a loan. Okay. They told me not to talk. Okay. And you, you appreciate that. That's the advice they give you. But you can choose as to whether or not you're going to take that advice right now. Just so everybody knows, you're tucked under a blanket there because you're tired, right? It's cold. Okay. And again, you know there is no more serious charge than the Criminal Code of Canada charge. You're aware of that, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Anthony, I want you to listen very carefully to me. My job is to get to the truth. And there have been times in my career where people have said they did things that they didn't do. And I want to make sure that you're not admitting to something that you didn't do. So I'm just going to ask you straight up. Was what you told Martin the truth? It's. So you killed Christine Heron. I need an answer. Yes. Okay. So how do you feel after you've told. Do you feel better that you've got this off your chest? A little. Okay. Are you prepared to go to jail for the rest of your life for a crime you didn't commit? Do you know that that could happen? You know that could happen, right? But you killed Christine. Yes or no? Yes. How come we didn't find her then? I just can't remember where. Where What? Where this podcast. Do you think I said where you killed this girl and you left her. Good.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle is definitive here. But then switches gears again. He'd like to go home.

[Sean Russworm]

He just wanted attention. Well, how come Sunday night at 11 o'clock you decide to say I killed Christine here? What? What? What? Switch flicked on there? I. Maybe you are a killer and you're just lying to me. You a killer. Look at me. You a killer, Anthony. I don't know what the heck to do with you. I don't know if you're a killer or not. You're confusing young men. What am I? What am I to do with you? Look at me. I want to do with you. Huh? Mischief.

[David Ridgeon]

Charge me with mischief.

[Sean Russworm]

So if Martin came in here and talked to you all over again, could he talk to you in this thing? That you killed that girl? Why did you pick Christine's name? They don't know that. Talk to, I guess. Well, what did you think was coming after? You're going to dazzle your family. But you're. You're a killer. Or were you looking to accomplish it? I don't know. What? That's not good enough. What are you looking to accomplish? Huh? I don't know. That's not good enough. I think maybe you're still a killer. Maybe you need to spend the rest of your life in jail. What do you think about that? Would that surprise you? Would that surprise you if I told you? I think maybe you're lying to me. Right, Zel? And you killed that girl. Yeah. What are you? A killer? Maybe. Eh? No. Pardon. Maybe you might be a killer. Okay then. Idiot.

[David Ridgeon]

At this point, police believe that Ringle might be a killer. Detective Sergeant Graham takes another crack at trying to prove to themselves that Anthony Ringle is the real deal.

[Sean Russworm]

I want you to try to picture exactly what she looked like, all right? Everything you can remember about her. Everything. Sometimes it's really here. Yeah. Glasses. Just that day that. Would you excuse me? Yeah. If your mum was sitting right here now, how would you explain it to her? You'd say the same thing, wouldn't you? How did you feel when you were doing it?

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle says bad.

[Sean Russworm]

What message could I give to Christine's mum?

[David Ridgeon]

That I'm sorry, I'm sitting in front.

[Sean Russworm]

Of the person that killed Christine. Heron. Yeah. What message do you have for your love sweet through that baby? Yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

I'm sorry for what I've done.

[Sean Russworm]

The more with the truth be and counsel me it wasn't Christine.

[David Ridgeon]

And thus in all probability, by his own admissions and actions, Christine's killer had been found in Anthony Ringle. Justice can soon be served. After this series of police questioning, Ringle appears before a judge and is then taken to a succession of Ontario provincial jails to await trial. Police used this period to conduct the searches that left the plastic OPP tape that Mary Ann Shawn and I saw on the other western side of the Saugeen River.

[Mary Ann]

The OPP had let me know that Ringel had confessed to murdering Christine and that he was being held and there would be a trial.

[David Ridgeon]

The pretrial finally comes in April 2006. Everything seems to have fallen in place and set to move forward with the successful prosecution of a man who voluntarily came forward to admit to his family and police that he murdered Christine Heron.

[Sean Russworm]

The Crown attorney told us it was a slam dunk. At one point he was 90% sure Ringle was going to be convicted.

[David Ridgeon]

But that's not what happened.

[Mary Ann]

They screwed up. I've got more anger towards the OPP and the town cops than I do Ringo. Nobody understands that.

[David Ridgeon]

Someone Knows Something is hosted, written and produced by me, David Ridgeon. The series is also produced by Katie Swires, sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber, Emily Cannell is our digital producer, Chris Oak is our story editor, our Executive Producer is Cecil Fernandez, Tanya Springer is the Senior manager and Arif Noorani is the Director of CBC Podcasts. If you want to help new listeners discover the show, please rate and review wherever you listen. Find us on Facebook by searching Someone Knows Something or on Instagram bcpodcasts. You can hear next week's episode now by searching for the CBC podcasts channel on YouTube. If you're looking for another investigative series to listen to, check out Uncover from CBC Podcasts with new episodes released weekly. You'll hear award winning true crime series year round. Listen to Uncover wherever you get your podcasts. Tune in next week for an all new episode of Someone Knows Something. Or you can listen to next week's episode ad free right now by subscribing to our True Crime channel on Apple Podcasts. Just click on the link in the show description and I crave you in the safe. For more CBC Podcasts, go to CBC capodcasts.