S9 E4: ‘Til The Day I Die

Summary

Summary of "Someone Knows Something" Season 9, Episode 4: ‘Til The Day I Die

Podcast Information:

• Title: Someone Knows Something
• Host/Author: David Ridgen, CBC
• Episode: Season 9, Episode 4: ‘Til The Day I Die
• Release Date: November 27, 2024

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Introduction

In the gripping fourth episode of Season 9 of "Someone Knows Something," host David Ridgen revisits the haunting case of Christine Harron, a teenage girl from Hanover, Ontario, who vanished in the spring of 1993. The episode delves into the complexities of the investigation, focusing on the re-arrest of Anthony Ringle—a suspect who had previously confessed to Christine's murder but whose charges were dismissed due to investigative errors.

Reopening the Case

The episode opens with Marianne Rustworm, Christine's mother, recounting the pivotal moment when police announced Ringle's second arrest after nearly a decade. At [00:42], Marianne states:

Marianne Rustworm: "Last night we had an officer appear at our door at 11:30 at night and asked us to get in touch with Detective Gilpin. Then called her and she let me know that Anthony Ringle had been arrested and charged with murder of my daughter."

This re-arrest comes almost ten years after the first, where Ringle's initial confession was rendered inadmissible due to mistakes by Investigator Mark Wright. At [01:03], Marianne laments:

Marianne Rustworm: "There is no happy ending to this investigation for Marianne, Christine's mom. I know that this has been a roller coaster of emotional highs and lows for the family since it began over 19 years ago."

Police and Investigation Dynamics

Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin, overseeing the renewed investigation, remains tight-lipped about the specifics leading to Ringle's rearrest. At [02:11], Gilpin comments on the family's frustration:

Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin: "There has been a certain level of frustration with the length of this and some directed at the OPP and police that had ended up before this."

Ridgen expresses his concerns regarding the lack of transparency from the police, stating at [03:00]:

David Ridgen: "I don't understand why they couldn't find it. She wasn't really buried. This is the first time since his 2004 confession that Ringle connects himself directly to Chrissy's disappearance."

Undercover Operation and Confession Extraction

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the complex undercover operation designed to elicit a confession from Ringle. Over several months, undercover officers (UCs) employed various tactics to build rapport, including sharing personal struggles and engaging in casual conversations. Ridgen reveals the innovative yet invasive methods used, such as:

• Shared Personal Stories: UCs posed as individuals undergoing tough divorces or involved in suspicious relationships to connect with Ringle.
• Interactive Media: Police presented a shortened version of Ridgen's documentary, manipulating the narrative to prompt Ringle's reaction.

At [15:03], Gilpin describes a pivotal moment:

Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin: "I was trying to do the spectacle thing. Kind of fearing or not even you fucking open."

This approach culminated in Ringle watching the manipulated documentary, where he becomes increasingly interactive and begins to reveal disturbing details about his involvement with Christine. Notably, at [28:54], Ringle demonstrates how he immobilized Christine using her own coat:

Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin: "She said she wouldn't tell anybody. But then later on she starts to hurt a hurt."

Emotional and Psychological Toll

Throughout the operation, the emotional strain on both Marianne Rustworm and the undercover officers becomes palpable. At [34:04], Marianne shares her enduring pain:

Marianne Rustworm: "I think he's afraid he's going to say the wrong thing."

The episode poignantly captures the relentless hope Marianne holds for justice, despite the prolonged uncertainty. At [35:30], she poignantly states:

Marianne Rustworm: "Today is the same as it was. Just deal with it a different way. Still gonna wait patiently. Sooner or later, justice will happen."

Conclusion and Ongoing Uncertainties

Despite the intensive undercover efforts and Ringle's coerced confessions, the episode underscores the unresolved nature of Christine's disappearance. As Gilpin reflects at [35:37]:

Marianne Rustworm: "It's still there."

The episode concludes by highlighting the precarious status of Ringle's trial, noting that his confession may once again be contested in court, this time influenced by Ridgen's documentary. The interplay between media exposure and legal proceedings raises critical questions about the pursuit of truth and justice.

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Notable Quotes

• Marianne Rustworm [00:42]: "Last night we had an officer appear at our door at 11:30 at night and asked us to get in touch with Detective Gilpin."

• Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin [03:00]: "There is no happy ending to this investigation for Marianne, Christine's mom."

• Marianne Rustworm [03:29]: "I'm just glad that it's finally gotten to this point where they've been able to arrest him again for her murder."

• Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin [21:08]: "Could have washed her somewhere else or could I actually bury her somewhere?"

• Marianne Rustworm [35:30]: "Today is the same as it was. Just deal with it a different way. Still gonna wait patiently. Sooner or later, justice will happen."

Reflections and Impact

This episode of "Someone Knows Something" offers a profound exploration of the intersection between media involvement and criminal investigations. David Ridgen's involvement in both producing the documentary and hosting the podcast raises intriguing discussions about the role of journalism in reopening cold cases. The emotional narratives woven through Marianne's unwavering hope and the psychological manipulation tactics used by law enforcement present a multifaceted view of the quest for closure in unresolved true crime cases.

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Production Credits:

• Host: David Ridgen
• Producer: Katie Swires
• Sound Design: Evan Kelly
• Transcriber: Natalia Ferguson
• Digital Producer: Emily Cannell
• Story Editor: Chris Oak
• Executive Producer: Cecil Fernandez
• Senior Manager: Tanya Springer
• Director of CBC Podcasts: Arif Noorani

Connect with the Show:

• Facebook: Search "Someone Knows Something"
• Instagram: @bcpodcasts
• Additional Content: Visit CBC Podcasts for episode transcripts and more.

Transcript

[David Ridgeon]

So good, so good, so good.

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[David Ridgeon]

This is a CBC podcast. The following episode contains difficult subject matter, including references to sexual assault. Please take care. Okay, so, Marianne, tell me everything.

[Marianne Rustworm]

Last night we had an officer appear at our door at 11:30 at night and asked us to get in touch with Detective Gilpin. Then called her and she let me know that Anthony Ringle had been arrested and charged with murder of my daughter.

[David Ridgeon]

Marianne says police haven't told her much more about this. The second time Ringle's been arrested for Chrissy's murder. The first time was almost 10 years earlier and the charges were stayed and the case went nowhere. It's been nine months since my CBC doc aired. Ringle is now 44 years old.

[Marianne Rustworm]

Christine Heron would have been now 34 years of age.

[David Ridgeon]

The OPP press conference at the Walkerton police station filled with media, family and people from the area.

[Marianne Rustworm]

There is no happy ending to this investigation for Marianne, Christine's mom. I know that this has been a roller coaster of emotional highs and lows for the family since it began over 19 years ago.

[David Ridgeon]

It is my hope Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin. Gilpin had given me very little information during my own investigation, and she's certainly not revealing a lot now either. So what's changed that's allowed police to rearrest Ringle?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I was going to ask, this is no disrespect to the family, but I have to ask, have you found Christine?

[Marianne Rustworm]

I can't discuss the evidence that we have discovered and I don't want to cause any problems with the court process, so I'm unable to provide you with.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

That information at this time.

[David Ridgeon]

Police never found Christine on any of their searches after Ringle's confession. And several mistakes that the court determined were made by OPP investigator Mark Wright caused the Crown to stay the charges against Ringle. Detective Inspector Gilpin messaged me after my CBC documentary aired saying, so, you know, I. We had nothing to do with what Mark Wright did. That was just him.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

There has been a certain level of frustration with the length of this and some directed at the OPP and police that had ended up before this.

[David Ridgeon]

With no real answers forthcoming from police, the reporters press in on Marianne, who is seated off to the side at the back of the room, and we'll take questions and answers. One of Them asks Marianne how she feels after hearing the OPP announcement.

[Marianne Rustworm]

I'm just glad that it's finally gotten to this point where they've been able to arrest him again for her murder. We're very thankful for that and hopefully, you know, justice will be had.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

The word closure comes out quite a bit.

[Marianne Rustworm]

I mean there is no such thing as closure. No.

[David Ridgeon]

The word closure is one that most of the victims families I've worked with despise. And here reporters are forcing the question before Mary Ann knows anything. What happened with Ringel and will any of it lead to us actually knowing what happened to Chrissy on May 18, 1993? I'm David Ridgeon and this is Someone Knows Something Season 9 the Christine Heron Case Episode 4 Till the Day I Die.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I was down in London for a good three months. I'm lost.

[Undercover Officer 1]

What was that? What happened?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Oh, they tried to charge me on attempted murder.

[Undercover Officer 1]

For what? Attempted murder? Yeah, it's like a birth cert or something.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Well, some check went missing and they tried to pin it on me.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Oh. Time later.

[David Ridgeon]

75 days after my CBC documentary went to air in May 2012, police begin field operations involving Ringle in the same trailer park where I had confronted him.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

But it was like fucking. They come in and I haven't even talked to a lawyer yet. This is why. The reason why it got thrown in court. Yeah, because they did not give me my rights. Right.

[David Ridgeon]

This police operation proceeded over several months, guided by Detective Inspector Gilpin and involved a handful of corps officers, undercover men and women, whom I shall refer to as UCs.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Okay. I phoned a lawyer three times and the last time I phoned a lawyer, I said to the lawyer, they want me to do something that I don't want to do. And after that they took me somewhere.

[Undercover Officer 1]

And maybe do what they didn't want to. Yeah, so they didn't find.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Yeah, they didn't find that one.

[Undercover Officer 1]

So there's no body.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Yeah, they fucking wasted time.

[Undercover Officer 1]

How do they charge you with murder if there's no fucking body? Seriously, how is it murdered? There's no proof of murder.

[David Ridgeon]

The UCs perform in stage scenarios intended to gain Ringle's trust and get him to talk. Posing as down on their luck. New arrivals to town. We've excluded the UC's identities and altered their voices under court order. This is the first time that these undercover recordings have ever been made public. It gives us an inside look into the police investigation of Ringle and what led to his arrest for a second time.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

You need to restart.

[Undercover Officer 1]

No, no, Restart. There is no hearing.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle and two UCs are sitting on beige couches arranged in an L shape in a starkly furnished apartment in Chesley, Ontario, trying to get a video game to work.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Maybe you gotta shut off the system and reboot it, unplug it, put it back in.

[David Ridgeon]

The operation moved to this apartment near the end of October 2012 because the trailer park shut down for winter.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Just unplug everything in the room.

[David Ridgeon]

They are all facing a television across the room that the game displays on. But this TV area also hosts a hidden camera that records everything that goes on in front of it.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Dozer there, man gets a day off. We're going to Walmart first thing in the morning.

[David Ridgeon]

Walmart open now the room. And it seems the UCs themselves are rigged with hidden microphones that also record. They call Ringle Dozer because of the way he likes to drive into or over other cars in the game. This rather empty looking setting would serve as a launch pad for trying to extract a confession from Ringle.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

So did he know you were banging her 100?

[Undercover Officer 1]

Yeah, I had to tell him when this all came to the surface like that. Oh, I had to tell him. But that's the thing, he doesn't judge me. He knows and I told him.

[David Ridgeon]

One of the main stories UC's try to drive home to Ringle about themselves involves a landscaper who is enduring a tough divorce and losing everything. The other UC is a friend of the landscaper and presents himself as having been caught in a relationship with an underage girl, a 14ish year old that seems to fit Christine's age. The UC involved in this underage relationship gets away with it, the story goes, because the landscaper stands up for him and can be trusted.

[Undercover Officer 1]

You know, he has got a heart of gold. He's got your trust, he's got back always. And you know what? Anytime you ever doubt that, just remember that fucking story I just told you. Tony.

[David Ridgeon]

It's all meant to position and present a predicament of shared experience that they hope might stimulate Ringle to open up and confide in them.

[Undercover Officer 1]

I didn't bring this on me. She's the one that came on to me like since she was like how old? Wearing her fancy stuff, like even if.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

You got a lawyer, your lawyer would go and question her, right? And she says the wrong fucking thing.

[David Ridgeon]

But while the story of the UC's affair with a teenage girl gets Ringle somewhat engaged, he says nothing specific to Christine.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

That's probably that one at the top.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Where the bowling alley is eight bowl or snooker?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

See, the UCs constantly shift their approach, trying to build rapport. And they develop talking opportunities featuring Coors Light, pizzas, restaurants, pool halls, ice fishing, a strip club, and even exchanging pornography DVDs.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Like, up here, it was like nothing on her arms. And you could see the bra struck at the back because it went like this. It looped down.

[David Ridgeon]

During the operation, Ringle would talk about young women as being objects. Objects of his desire.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Not unless you're actually following them. But then you gotta make it look like you're not following them.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringo would tell the UCs that he knew where many young women lived in the Chesley and Hanover area, that he had followed them. And techniques he uses, such as circling back or doing parallels to make sure you don't get caught.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Excuse me, but I gotta hurdle in now, please, a little bit.

[David Ridgeon]

On a trip to a London, Ontario mall, Ringel spies young women he describes to the UCs as being under 16 years old. One of them in particular, Ringle says, is about 13, wearing a pink sweater and leotard. Ringle wants to show her to the UCs, but he can't find her again. And it frustrates him.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Shouldn't be walking around like that, teasing somebody's cock.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Yeah, what were you guys thinking, right?

[David Ridgeon]

But these simpatico trust building scenes still do not bring Ringel any closer to talking specifically about past connection to Christine Heron. In late November, a more direct method is used.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

So it is. Oh, what's this?

[Undercover Officer 1]

What is that?

[David Ridgeon]

Anybody else missing Posters showing a photo of Chrissy and the basics of her disappearance are put up by police operatives around town. One right on the UC's car windshield. Ringle picks it up, but initially turns it so that the UC can't see it.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Anybody else got one of them?

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle shows the poster to the uc.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Seen a kid before or somebody just go missing or.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Oh, no, this. She's been gone from 1993 and they're just looking for.

[David Ridgeon]

Enough, okay, so Ringle throws the poster on the floor of the vehicle.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Maybe the kid ran away and doesn't want to be found.

[David Ridgeon]

Two weeks later, the missing Chrissy poster comes up again.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Here's the thing, okay? I seen her picture one day and I accidentally said something to a cop about the picture, that I seen it and they took it the wrong way.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Right.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

And they ended up charging. You get it though? The one that's gone, been gone for 15 years.

[Undercover Officer 1]

That's the one that you went to jail for this one?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

But while the poster gets Ringle talking about generalities. He doesn't make any statements germane to the case. The holidays arrive and the UCS depart.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

So I got 19 and 30 little schoolgirls.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Nice.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Awesome.

[David Ridgeon]

The UCS return after the break. Soon after, Ringel brings over some porn DVDs he proposes that they watch.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I also have a Canadian one.

[David Ridgeon]

The UCs try again to encourage Ringle to talk and take him on an ice fishing trip at the end of January. But it comes up empty too. Documents show that Ringle's comments about a young teen girl he sees out on the ice make the ucs uncomfortable. At this point, ucs have spent about five months trying to get Ringle to admit to any involvement in Chrissy's disappearance. With no luck, nothing seems to be working. But then.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Maybe you have to type your middle name like that's why I.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Just typed in my name.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

If you type my name, something more than you want. Oh, yeah, I know it. I know it, man.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Over here. No.

[David Ridgeon]

An idea is hatched by police that UC should get onto the Internet with Ringle, play around entering their names to see if searching them brings anything up. To do this, police create a fake search engine so that the UC's stage name brings up nothing of interest. But when Ringle's name is entered, something specific pops up.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Oh, that's that thing they did on.

[David Ridgeon]

Christian Urine, my CBC documentary. So good, so good, so good.

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[Undercover Officer 1]

What? Oh, that's the girl.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

19 years ago today, Marianne Rustworm saw her daughter for the last and disappeared.

[Undercover Officer 1]

That's you right there.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

They did every thing on David R. Shows us what happened and confronts the man who once. How do they make a.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Is this like a movie or something? Or what is this?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

No.

[David Ridgeon]

Surely one of the strangest stories in OPP history.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Yeah, but you got to listen to this.

[David Ridgeon]

Anthony Ringle and the UC sit on the couches in the fake Chesley apartment watching my documentary. Ringle in a snowmobile jacket and baseball cap, nervously sipping at a beer. But then the documentary abruptly ends, along with the dummy search engine. Police had edited their own much shorter version of my film. And Ringle notices Christine Heron.

[Undercover Officer 1]

That's like a.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

It ended. That's weird. Is there more than that? Just.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Find out.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle, who has seen the original doc, wants to watch the 20 minute long version and urges the UC to find it. So the UC searching the actual Internet, finds it linked to a CBC article I wrote about Chrissy's case. Ringle leans in, and together he and the UC watch stopping, starting and replaying for the next four hours.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

That's my neighbor's trailer. Here's my trailer. This guy, I thought he was a cop.

[Undercover Officer 1]

He's not.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle apparently thought I was a cop when I knocked on his trailer door. Did you have a chance to tell your mom before she died that you.

[Undercover Officer 1]

What?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

You say that didn't kill Christine?

[Undercover Officer 1]

Yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

Did you ever tell her that?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

What the fuck's going on?

[David Ridgeon]

No. So she died thinking that you might have murdered her? Pardon?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I didn't talk about it.

[David Ridgeon]

No, he didn't talk about it.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Nobody.

[David Ridgeon]

Her mother's wondering what happened. She doesn't know either. Ringo, watching, interacts with the documentary, with my voiceover answering, not my problem. And the conversation ends with more questions.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

See? He didn't mention.

[David Ridgeon]

As Ringel watches, his commentary increases. His statements become focused on Christine, the imagery I shot and the words I'm saying. He's opening up. The UC hits play again. The Hanover park and Saugeen river appear on the screen. River from Hanover's public park, one of Christine's favorite places.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

See, according to the.

[Undercover Officer 1]

What's that?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

That was your favorite place.

[Undercover Officer 1]

No, no. Everyone could have a favorite place, right?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle seems visibly struck by the thought that the little Hanover park on the Saugeen river was one of Chrissy's favorite places. Then they watched the part of the documentary where I described from documents what Ringle said to police in 2004 about what he did to Christine, apparently in or close to a marshy lagoon.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Not only does the OPP bring Ringle to these locations, I don't understand why they couldn't find it. Buried.

[David Ridgeon]

I don't understand why they couldn't find it. She wasn't really buried. This is the first time since his 2004 confession that Ringle connects himself directly to Chrissy's disappearance. The UC seizes on the opportunity as he wonders and questions for Ringle how it is that they couldn't find Chrissy's body.

[Undercover Officer 1]

No wonder. Why? How couldn't they have? Which is good for you.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I think it's because of all the buds.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Buds?

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle thinks that the flooding at the banks of the Saugeen could be a reason for why Chrissy was not found.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Could have washed her somewhere else or could I actually bury her somewhere?

[Undercover Officer 1]

Right. Either way though, that's good for you.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

That's what I mean.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Right. Cuz Lucy didn't find her.

[David Ridgeon]

They couldn't find. In the hidden video recordings I can see the UC becoming noticeably excited about the documentary's effect on Ringleader as they crouch over the laptop sitting on the couches. Once the gate begins to open, Ringo pushes through it keeps going and keeps talking.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Oh, so keep on going. See what happened?

[Undercover Officer 1]

Okay.

[David Ridgeon]

This is what is alleged to have happened the day Christine Karen.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I know where that is.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Where?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

That's in the park. It's a documentary on the rivers.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Yeah, on her.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

They're not actually showing where we crossed or blah blah blah blah.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Right.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Like two minutes walk off the trail and you're right there. They couldn't find location. Yeah, it goes around the bend.

[Undercover Officer 1]

I've never been there, so I don't get. I don't know. Right.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

It goes around the bend and then goes that way. So at the end of that tip, that's where we cross.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle, who says he took police to the right spot back in 2004, seems upset here because I didn't film the exact spot. He says he crossed the Saugeen river with Chrissy. It keeps him talking like how'd you.

[Undercover Officer 1]

How'd you find her? Was it for touring or is it.

[David Ridgeon]

Like the UC asks how Ringle came to meet Christine and uses Ringle's word Touring or looking for young girls around town.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Walking.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Just tell me. Walking.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Yeah, I went for a walk one day too.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Oh shit.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Went for a walk and then all kind of bumped into the chat.

[David Ridgeon]

I just went for a walk and then all of a sudden I bumped into this chick.

[Undercover Officer 1]

What'd you say to her?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Oh, we're going that way.

[Undercover Officer 1]

You remember him?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Exactly what they said.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle says he said what's down there? To Chrissy.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Oh, what's down there?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

And what she said she didn't, but she didn't complain.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle says Chrissy didn't really say anything. As a 15 year old girl alone being accosted by a 24 year old man, I think Chrissy would have been afraid to do anything that might provoke a negative reaction.

[Undercover Officer 1]

And then all of a sudden you went.

[David Ridgeon]

The UC asks Ringle what made him do it that day.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Sexual frustration.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Sexual frustration.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Sexual frustration.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Then you talk her right away or no. Or just say, you coming with me?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

What she said, she didn't say. Like I said, 14 should know.

[Undercover Officer 1]

She should know better. It's not all your fault, right?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

No. She didn't seem too happy when she was coming down with Kyle. Opportunity knock.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Yeah, opportunity knocks and you gotta answer.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I think it was her time.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

Opportunity knocked. I think it was her time. Hearing Ringle try to justify the brutal events he's describing is difficult to listen to. But the UC presses forward.

[Undercover Officer 1]

So it showed the river earlier. It shows how it shows all the current rippling out.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Oh yeah, it's fast.

[Undercover Officer 1]

So how did you guys get across? No.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle says he pushed Chrissy into the river and then followed her across.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

She went downstream a little bit and I went across and hit the bank but let go and caught up to her to try to keep her from going all the way down.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Right. It wasn't a while, was it? Was it cold or.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle says he has to swim after Chrissy to keep her from floating downriver. And he pulls her to the opposite bank.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Did she have the glasses when she got to the other side or no? That explained right there.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Right. If they dredge the water, how come they didn't find that? The glasses.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle says Chrissy's glasses came off in the water and wonders why they weren't found. From here, more specific details begin to come out about what Ringle thinks about what Ringle says he did. And I've omitted some of the most difficult to hear, but I still urge caution for listeners.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Was it before crossing river or after?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Absolutely.

[David Ridgeon]

Was it before crossing the river or after? And Ringle says after.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

How do you do it then left her. It wasn't face. I can't remember when it's face down or if I flipped her over.

[David Ridgeon]

I can't remember if it was face down or I flipped her over.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Was it swampy when you were. So you were always covering wetland before you were leaning on mud yourself or did you not go to a good dry area?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I remember doing whatever and then going.

[David Ridgeon]

I remember doing whatever and then going.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I don't want to try to remember.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Like when this computer is saying one thing. This is the best position is Asking you. So when it says that you know.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

That she was drowned, just say she couldn't move the way I did.

[David Ridgeon]

Let's just say she couldn't fucking move the way I did it.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Can you like. Can you describe it? Like, is it like. What's it like?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

So how do you tie a person up without. Without rope?

[Undercover Officer 1]

I don't know. Good question.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

How do you jacket. Oh, their own jacket.

[Undercover Officer 1]

How you do that? So this is her coat? Yeah. Okay.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle physically shows the UC how he immobilized Chrissy using her coat so that it kept her arms from moving.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Oh yeah. I can't fucking move now. Oh shit. Eh.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

When she's on the ground, I can do anything then.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Yeah.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I pulled out the pants.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Yeah. Right. So what did she. What did she say to them?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

She said she wouldn't tell anybody. But then later on she starts to hurt a hurt.

[Undercover Officer 1]

She's gonna tell them.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Yeah. Where's the question of that? I won't tell anybody, Lee. You only need to say something.

[David Ridgeon]

I let you go and you say something. I'm. And here Ringo can be seen mouthing the words I'm fucked. He was afraid Chrissy would tell people what had happened. The UC eggs on this difficult conversation.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Yeah. Decision time right there. Right. What to do?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Should I let her go or she's not coming back. But they lied about drowning because we really drowned. Because drowning, you have to have water.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Right where I was.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

It was more muddier. It wasn't more drowning, a more smothered hurt.

[Undercover Officer 1]

It's her. Does it end quick or does it take a long time? Like how is it? Like, how do you do it?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Like they say you can die in split second round, but I think it's a little bit longer.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle tells the UC how he smothered Chrissy in the mud. How it took longer than it seems in the movies to kill someone.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

See, that's what they said. I kind of. What? You know, I'm Mark Gray. So I was trying to do the spectacle thing. Kind of fearing or not even you fucking open.

[David Ridgeon]

Rangel says he returned the next day and covered Chrissy with sticks, logs and branches.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Spit logs, branchings. You aren't that scenery.

[Undercover Officer 1]

No.

[David Ridgeon]

There are bears in the woods and they are human. As I watch the recordings, I'm struck a few times by an overwhelming urge to get away. Panic attack triggered by the unending horror and ease with which Ringle talks about hurting Chrissy and barbarically taking her life. Sitting with Ringle through all of this must be tough for the UCs fleeing my computer, my house, my city is easy, but it doesn't change anything. I still have to get to the end, but I'm happy. Ringo is watching the dock and talking and it's a sort of grounding. The work is doing what it's supposed to do. Upon my return to the keyboard, I open up the transcript and video file to a spot where Ringle is eating popcorn out of a bowl.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

You know what I mean? It's. It's God that's gonna probably punish me for whatever.

[Undercover Officer 1]

You know what though? I think God is gonna forgive you. We talked about this. Like you said, it's perfect crime now that you did, like basically the perfect crime and really the pre. All is.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Yeah, okay, so what am I doing now?

[Undercover Officer 1]

That's what I mean. Do you ever think of like doing it again?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Yeah, I have, but no, no, I think it's my conscience that's trying to stop me from doing right. Your option, you can do that or follow my commandments. So if you do it once and you don't do it again, maybe I can trust you, right? I still have them. Thoughts, yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringel still has the thoughts of doing something again. And yet he has also felt the urge to confess. I am an atheist, but believe in the edict that the truth will set you free. Will the truth set Ringel free? And to do what is the question. So what do you think of that, Marianne?

[Marianne Rustworm]

I think he's afraid. He's afraid he's going to say the wrong thing.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

And you, you said the wrong thing long ago.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Looks like she's fucking calling you on, eh?

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

It's like fuck happened.

[David Ridgeon]

Towards the end of what are now the early morning hours of continuous documentary watching, a melancholy seems to descend on Ringle himself about what he has done.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

So no, that's why I'm saying I have to apologize if wherever he got.

[David Ridgeon]

Jeans, Ringle's wistfulness turns to musings about an afterlife where he might get the chance, he thinks, to speak to Chrissy.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I'm going to ask you the question, did you have a better life afterwards or before? I'm going to say, sorry, what I did. No. Did you have a better life afterwards or before?

[David Ridgeon]

To ask that question, hypothetically of anyone, let alone someone you have horribly murdered, is to me blood boiling. But it also clarifies Ringle's state of mind. This is his version of guilt, no matter how wrong headed his version of a mind trying to find a way out of what it knows was a terrible wrong.

[Marianne Rustworm]

But it never goes away.

[David Ridgeon]

It's.

[Marianne Rustworm]

Today is the same as it was.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

That day for me. It's still there.

[Marianne Rustworm]

Just deal with it a different way. Still gonna wait patiently. Sooner or later, justice will happen.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

I believe that Marianne Russ says she continues to hold that hope. No, did it. They cut it out. They say that she hopes that I still talk to her.

[Undercover Officer 1]

Well, you're not gonna though, are you? No.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Why should I?

[Undercover Officer 1]

No. What's. That's in the past, man. Put it this way, this story here and you and me till the day I die doesn't leave easel. It's a long time ago. Right. Put it behind you and.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Oh, I never gotta forget.

[Undercover Officer 1]

No. It's fucking, dude. It's tough to forget. Yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle says he'll never forget it and that it is too planted in his brain.

[Undercover Officer 1]

The thing's only 20 minutes long, but it's taking us fucking three hours to watch it.

[Detective Inspector Christine Gilpin]

Yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

After about seven months of direct contact with Ringle and with their UC recorded confessions, Ontario Provincial police rearrest Ringle and charge him with first degree murder. The undercover operation is viewed as a huge success and Ringle is sent to provincial jail to await his trial. But the outcome of that trial is far from certain. In 2015, when Ringle's second pretrial begins, the defense moves to throw out his confession again. This time not because of police errors, but because of my documentary. Someone Knows Something is hosted, written and produced by me, David Ridgeon. The series is also produced by Katie Swires. Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Cannell is our digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez. Tanya Springer is the senior manager and Arif Noorani is the director of CBC Podcasts. If you want to help new listeners discover the show, please rate and review wherever you listen. Find us on Facebook by searching Someone Knows Something or on Instagram bcpodcasts. You can hear next week's episode now by searching for the CBC Podcasts channel on YouTube. If you're looking for more investigations, check out my other series, the Next Call. Conducted almost exclusively through a series of strategic phone calls. Each call dictates how I will investigate cases and follow leads. There are three seasons available to binge listen to now. Find the Next call wherever you get your podcasts, tune in next week for an all new episode of Someone Knows Something. Or you can listen to next week's episode ad free right now by subscribing to our True Crime channel on Apple Podcasts. Just click on the link in the show description. For more CBC Podcasts go to CBC CA Podcasts.