S9 E5: A Bear In The Woods

Summary

Summary of "Someone Knows Something" Season 9, Episode 5: "A Bear In The Woods"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Someone Knows Something
• Host/Author: David Ridgen, CBC
• Episode: Season 9, Episode 5: "A Bear In The Woods"
• Release Date: December 4, 2024
• Description: This episode revisits the mysterious disappearance of Christine Harron, a teenager from Hanover, Ontario, who vanished in 1993. Decades after her disappearance, her mother, Marianne Russwurm, and host David Ridgen reopen the investigation, confronting the man who confessed to her murder.

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1. Introduction and Case Background

David Ridgen reintroduces listeners to the case of Christine Harron, a book-loving teenager who disappeared in the spring of 1993 while en route to school. A suspect, Anthony Ringle, later confessed to her murder, but the case quickly unraveled, leaving Christine's family without closure.

David Ridgen [00:21]: "Hear the very best in award-winning true crime."

The episode focuses on Marianne Russwurm, Christine's mother, and her relentless pursuit of answers, even decades after the disappearance.

2. Reunion with Marianne Russwurm

After over 15 years of investigating Christine’s case, David Ridgen meets with Marianne Russwurm at her home. The emotional weight of the case is evident as Marianne reflects on the past and the unresolved nature of her daughter's disappearance.

Marianne Russwurm [03:18]: "I haven't moved on. I went down a few times and just put flowers in the river... There's nothing they can do to help me. So I'm stuck. Where's my answers?"

3. Legal Proceedings and Anthony Ringle’s Confession

The episode delves into the legal intricacies surrounding Anthony Ringle's confession and subsequent trial. Ringle's confession was obtained through an undercover operation, leading to his guilty plea for second-degree murder without a full trial. The judge dismissed the defense's argument that the confession was tainted by a CBC documentary film, allowing Ringle's statements to stand as evidence.

Marianne Russwurm [05:09]: "He wouldn't look at me... I begged him in court to tell me where he put her. He wouldn't even say a word."

Ringle's defense attorney contested the admissibility of his confession, but the judge ruled in favor of the prosecution, resulting in Ringle being sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 12 years.

4. Marianne’s Emotional Journey and Continued Search for Truth

Marianne expresses the profound impact of Christine's disappearance on her life, highlighting the daily struggle with grief and guilt. Despite the legal closure, Marianne remains unsatisfied and continues to seek answers, feeling that the police mishandled the case.

Marianne Russwurm [06:47]: "This is never going to go away for me. It's a daily challenge just trying to live my life... I believe that this case has come now for a guilty plea because of David Ridgen, of what he's done."

5. Reopening the Search: Search Expedition in Hanover Park

Determined to uncover new evidence, David Ridgen spearheads a search expedition alongside Marianne, her son Owen, and search experts Kim Cooper and Pauline Sunman, who bring cadaver dogs Recky and Taz. The team revisits the area where Ringle claims to have pushed Christine into the river but discovers little, raising questions about the thoroughness of previous searches.

David Ridgen [22:32]: "It's early June and the trail and entire area around me is lush and overgrown. When Ringle and Chrissy traveled the same path in May 1993, it would have been somewhat easier going."

During the search, Marianne confronts the possibility that the police never thoroughly searched the area, emphasizing her belief that Christine’s remains were overlooked.

Marianne Russwurm [41:19]: "Right, exactly. And I told them I know she's there. I could feel it."

6. Challenges Encountered During the Search

The team faces natural obstacles such as dense underbrush, slippery trails, and challenging terrain that hinder their progress. Marianne experiences a minor accident, slipping into a hole, which underscores the physical and emotional toll of the search.

Marianne Russwurm [35:53]: "What would she be doing now? She'd probably have her own children, her own life... She loved to camp."

Despite the setbacks, the searchers find a curved piece of metal that could potentially be part of Christine’s glasses, though its significance remains uncertain.

Dave Ridgen [28:40]: "Does that look like it could have been from glasses? Rim of glasses."

7. Emotional Reflections and Unresolved Questions

Throughout the expedition, Marianne grapples with her emotions, expressing anger towards law enforcement and the lingering guilt over Christine's disappearance. The lack of a proper burial site for Christine adds to the family's anguish, as Marianne continues to seek closure.

Marianne Russwurm [05:43]: "I haven't moved on... There's nothing they can do to help me. So I'm stuck. Where's my answers?"

8. Conclusion and Future Endeavors

The episode concludes with the realization that despite exhaustive efforts, Christine Harron's remains remain undiscovered. Marianne remains steadfast in her quest for truth, while David Ridgen acknowledges the challenges faced during the investigation.

David Ridgen [43:45]: "We do more than that. And that is what we will do."

Marianne's enduring hope and determination highlight the human aspect of true crime investigations, emphasizing the relentless pursuit of justice by those left behind.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Marianne Russwurm [03:18]: "I haven't moved on... So I'm stuck. Where's my answers?"
• Marianne Russwurm [05:09]: "He wouldn't look at me... I begged him in court to tell me where he put her."
• Marianne Russwurm [06:47]: "This is never going to go away for me. It's a daily challenge just trying to live my life."
• Marianne Russwurm [14:44]: "It makes me angry to see him act that way on camera... I had that guilt every day."
• Marianne Russwurm [41:19]: "I know she's there. I could feel it."

Key Topics Covered:

• The unresolved disappearance of Christine Harron and the legal aftermath of Anthony Ringle's confession.
• Marianne Russwurm's enduring grief, guilt, and pursuit of answers.
• The challenges and emotional toll of reopening a cold case decades later.
• The physical search expedition in Hanover Park and the obstacles faced.
• The critique of law enforcement's handling of the initial investigation.

Conclusion: "A Bear In The Woods" serves as a poignant exploration of lost hope and unyielding determination. Through Marianne Russwurm's story, the episode underscores the profound and lasting impact of unresolved crimes on families and communities. David Ridgen's investigative approach not only seeks to uncover the truth but also shines a light on the human resilience in the face of enduring tragedy.

Transcript

[David Ridgeon]

Uncover from CBC Podcasts is your source for exceptional storytelling and groundbreaking journalism. Hear how lives were altered forever by results from one DNA lab.

[Dave Ridgeon]

I'm like, what? What do you mean he's not my son?

[David Ridgeon]

And unravel the clues that a gravel pit may hold about one woman's disappearance.

[Dave Ridgeon]

It's just. It's odd because there was no trace of a scuffle. There was no nothing.

[David Ridgeon]

Hear the very best in award winning true crime. Listen to un wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. The following episode contains difficult subject matter, including references to sexual assault. Please take care.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Hello? Hey, Marianne, it's Dave Ridgeon here. I'm just outside.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Okay, I'll be right down.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay. There she is. How are you? I was trying to think of the last time I saw you would have been.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Long time ago.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Long time ago.

[David Ridgeon]

Yeah.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Nice to see you.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Same here. I'm a little slow going upstairs these days. That's okay.

[David Ridgeon]

It's been over 15 years since I first began working on Chrissy's case. And I'm here to see Marianne now because there's still more to do.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Come on, man. Excuse the mess.

[Dave Ridgeon]

No problem.

[David Ridgeon]

Hi, kitty cat.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Oh, there's Christine right there.

[David Ridgeon]

The same Chrissy in glasses photo in the same frame that I first saw her in at the Hanover Church so long ago. I pick it up and it's heavy. Chrissy is staring back at me, a face I have come to know so well after all these years. Marianne looks older, maybe paler, more fragile. Sean Russworm, Marianne's former husband, is noticeably absent from the scene. Marianne says that they ended their many years together in estrangement.

[Dave Ridgeon]

What's the kitty cat's name here?

[Marianne Russwurm]

Charlie. He's a pain in the ass.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Used to have Chihuahuas, didn't you?

[Marianne Russwurm]

They're in the bedroom or they won't stop barking. Yeah, they're 13 and 12.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Can I see the dogs?

[David Ridgeon]

The nature of the work that needs to be done changes as cases progress, even when justice comes.

[Marianne Russwurm]

I know the day of the court, the police took me aside and they told me how they got him, like, undercover and that he did kill her. And, you know, we raped her and pushed her head down into a puddle or something, they said. But they wouldn't give me any answers to any of my questions. They said that's all we can tell you.

[David Ridgeon]

After his rearrest. Following the undercover operation, Anthony Ringel is jailed to await proceedings when court begins in November of 2014. Marianne says she is told by police not to attend in case she has to Testify.

[Marianne Russwurm]

I know all the different emotions you go through and you know how you gotta handle it. And everybody kept telling me, why aren't you crying? I said, that's not gonna get nothing done. I said, you gotta be strong to try and get somewhere. I said, crying's when you're in your bedroom at night.

[David Ridgeon]

At pretrial, the defense and prosecution make their arguments before a judge for what evidence should be included at TR trial. Ringle's lawyer, Stephen Gell mounts his most strident argument on what he says is a tainting of Ringle's newest confession by my CBC film. Basically because some of Ringle's admissions to killing Christine were deemed inadmissible in Ringle's 2006 pretrial. Any of those excluded admissions Ringle saw in the film tainted his new confession to the UCs, but the prosecution successfully argues against that. Judge C.J. conlon agrees, stating, I conclude that the February 2013 admissions were not obtained in a manner that infringed or denied Mr. Ringel's charter rights, and the defense tainting application is therefore dismissed. In his ruling, Conlon writes, there is no question that the CBC film was deliberately used by the police as a ploy, a lure to produce a confession to murder. And it worked. The confessions based on Ringle's viewing of my doc are allowed into evidence and Ringle's trial is set for June 2016. Marianne attends, but the details of what happened are obscured in a sea of legalese. And Ringle never takes the stand, even in court.

[Marianne Russwurm]

He wouldn't look at me. Even the judge was waiting for a response from him and he wouldn't. When I read my impact statement, he would not look. And I begged him in court to tell me where he put her. He wouldn't even say a word.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringo pleads guilty to second degree murder, avoiding a full trial, and is sentenced to life in prison with no chance of parole for 12 years. So where does this all leave Mary Ann? And where can she go from here?

[Marianne Russwurm]

I haven't moved on. I went down a few times and just put flowers in the river and we made her a really nice cross and we put it back in the site. They say I have Post Traumatic Stress disorder from it, but there's nothing they can do to help me. So I'm stuck. Where's my answers?

[David Ridgeon]

I'm David Ridgeon and this is Someone Knows Something Season 9 the Christine Heron Case Episode 5 A Bear in the Woods.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Marianne Russwurm it took more than two decades, but there is now someone in Jail for your daughter Christine's murder. How much has that changed things for you? It's changed a little bit because there's a little bit of justice there.

[David Ridgeon]

Mary Ann speaking in the weeks after Ringel's conviction with CBC radio host Anna Maria Tremonte.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah, this is never going to go away for me. It's a daily challenge just trying to live my life. And ever since she went missing, I don't celebrate holidays or anything because it doesn't feel right without her there. Like, with my case, I don't have a body, so that is very difficult. I can't bury her, give her a proper burial. She was just like she was thrown away and garbage, you know. But, you know, keep trying and try to get your answers however you can. Don't always rely on the police. You've got to do it yourself. You've got to push them every day. I don't like the way the police handled the case at all. They made so many errors. And it was David that brought all the errors to light for me. He started showing me paperwork with all the mistakes that they had made, and I was very angry. I believe that this case has come now for a guilty plea because of David Ridgeon, of what he's done.

[David Ridgeon]

The late musician Daniel Johnson once sang some lyrics that I found instructive. Do yourself a favor, become your own savior. We don't need an outside force to make the change that is needed. And Marianne exemplifies this by never giving up on justice for Chrissy and being the reason any documentary could be made in the first place.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Did you ever get the chance to talk to Anthony Ringle person to person, like face to face?

[Marianne Russwurm]

No, because every time I went to try and find him somewhere, he'd see me and he'd run. It should have been the other way around. Should have been me hiding from him, but no, it was the other way around. I still want to hear what he has to say and what happened because, yeah, I'd read a long impact statement and it didn't seem to make a difference to him.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Did the police tell you specifics of how they got him to say anything, or did they tell you any other detail about.

[Marianne Russwurm]

They wouldn't.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So just in terms of going forward, if I go and try to find how to get in touch with Ringel, I find out where he is, do I include you on the letter and say, we want to talk to you, or do I say I want to and then you just come.

[Marianne Russwurm]

I'll go with you? Yeah, yeah, I want to be there. You should be there with me. Yeah, I definitely want to be there. I want to hear what he has to say. But it's his version. You still never really know. I'm strong, though.

[Dave Ridgeon]

I know.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Strong person. I know that. Yeah.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah.

[Marianne Russwurm]

I've had to be all these years.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Let's find out how to work that, then. Correctional Service Canada.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Bonjour.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Hi there.

[David Ridgeon]

I'm trying to determine. It can be difficult to find where someone is incarcerated in Canada.

[Marianne Russwurm]

I'll give you access to information, general inquiries.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay.

[Marianne Russwurm]

1844.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Thank you for calling Correctional Service Canada. Access to Information and Privacy Division. Hi, there. I'm trying to confirm if someone is in federal custody here in Ontario or elsewhere in Canada.

[David Ridgeon]

Anthony Edward Ringle. R I, N, G, E, L. But no callbacks from Corrections Canada. So I craft a letter with Mary Ann. Without knowing exactly where Ringle is in custody, I send several of them to some of the likely prisons where he might be.

[Dave Ridgeon]

It's a little bit noisy back here, but it's okay. So I can put the computer right here. I brought some clips from the undercover operation to show you.

[David Ridgeon]

We wait for several months. Ringel doesn't respond to the letters, so I reconvene with Mary Ann.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Have you seen any of this before?

[Marianne Russwurm]

No, I wasn't allowed to.

[David Ridgeon]

I've set up the computer with the UC videos on it on a little plastic table in a secluded area outside of Marianne's apartment. It's a place that feels safe for her to watch. My belief, shared by Marianne, is that by confronting this footage for the first time, she can help herself to dispel some of her lingering demons. Courtroom justice is one thing. Being a survivor is another.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So some of it's pretty difficult listening. And, in fact, I haven't. In the podcast, I haven't put a lot of that in, but I think it's important that you have the option of learning what he said.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yes.

[Dave Ridgeon]

And I know, Marianne, that you say you're strong, and I know everybody thinks they're strong, but you can't kind of unhear this stuff, right? And you'll see him saying it, too, so. But with that in mind, I can show you and we can. Are you okay? We'll keep going. Are you okay? We'll keep going, but only if you want to look at it, because you had said that you want to know the truth.

[Marianne Russwurm]

I want to know.

[Dave Ridgeon]

And Anthony has not responded yet to anything I've sent to him. So in terms of us going to talk to him, I'm not sure when that might happen. Can you see that?

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yes.

[David Ridgeon]

I play the first clip of undercover police video that shows the general setup of the apartment. The UC and Ringle watching my documentary around the laptop computer. I want Marianne to see how Ringle starts reacting to the documentary as he watches.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Let's play this here. You gotta keep on watching this because it. It tells everything. Like.

[Marianne Russwurm]

They screwed up. I've got more anger towards the OPP and the town cops than I do.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Well, why'd you come and visit our fucking house? And the OPP or Hanover police departments have agreed to speak on the record about this case. So that's kind of introduction to what the scene is like. So you see Anthony starting to talk about the case here. Anything strike you? Did you imagine it being like this or.

[Marianne Russwurm]

I didn't think he'd be that casual about it.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Apparently, in or close to a marshy lagoon, Ringo reportedly raped Christine and drowned her. He allegedly returned to the area a following day to bury her, face down and naked in a makeshift grave. Not only does the OPP bring Ringle to these locations, I don't understand why they couldn't find it. Did you catch what he said?

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah.

[Dave Ridgeon]

This is the transcript, Anthony. I don't understand why they couldn't find it. You see?

[David Ridgeon]

Mm.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Anthony, she wasn't really buried. And that's the beginning. So that's the beginning of his confession, basically. And it goes on and on and on and on for hours.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Wow. Yeah.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Hanover's public park, one of Christine's favorite places. Available documents, including interviews. So he says, I didn't know it was her favorite place.

[David Ridgeon]

And so on. I play clip after clip for Marianne. With Ringle becoming increasingly open about what he did that day. Marianne watches all of it intently, showing little emotion. I do not play the most graphic clips. I will leave her to watch those on her own whenever she might be ready.

[Marianne Russwurm]

It makes me angry to see him act that way on camera, you know, be so callous about it that he doesn't seem to care what he did. It upsets me all over again to watch him talk like that about her. But to carry the hate all these years, that's hard too. So until I got a life back here, it was all hatred, and that was eating me up. So you have to let some of it go. Maybe it's the only way he can cope with what he's done. I don't know. But it's not right. It's hard to deal with that. Like to see her walk away from the house. And the last time to see her, that's. That's hard. I had that guilt every day. We had a big argument and I made her go to school. If I hadn't made her, it might not have happened. She might have been safe.

[David Ridgeon]

Guilt is etched like acid across the minds of all the victims, families I've worked with. Probably anyone who has experienced a sudden loss has become lost themselves in this terrain. But in cases like this of people who go missing or who are murdered, it is almost always of a specific acuteness. If only they could have done something, said something, thought something different, it wouldn't have happened. Their loved one would still be here. The moments before saying goodbye, that final argument or fleeting last glimpse wouldn't be on endless replay and their remaining existence wouldn't be spent in some kind of penitence pushing people and their own lives away. This kind of guilt has stayed with Marianne all these years, playing out day and night.

[Marianne Russwurm]

I have nightmares every single night, all night long about trying to reach her and can't get to her to help her. And that's going to be the rest of my life. So I've seen psychiatrists, I've talked to counselors, and that will never go away. It's the guilt. And I feel that every day. So it's a struggle every day to get through it.

[David Ridgeon]

I don't think Ringle will talk to Mary Ann. There's been no response to our missives and his lawyer has not responded either. Mary Ann, after seeing some of the UC tape, seems less interested in engaging with him. But still I know would jump at any chance if it came up. Our thoughts turn to another matter constantly on her mind.

[Marianne Russwurm]

It wasn't dug up back there, so.

[Dave Ridgeon]

The police said it was dug up. But you went back there where we went.

[Marianne Russwurm]

No, nothing's been dug up. That's back in on the other side of the park side of the river there. It's all marsh and there's no way they dug it up.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Have OPP or police ever communicated with you about finding remains or anything like that?

[Marianne Russwurm]

No, nothing. They said there was also helicopters with heat seeking thermal images and they didn't find nothing.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So has there ever been cadaver dogs run through there?

[Marianne Russwurm]

They said there was. I don't know.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah. It makes me wonder about cadaver dogs and you know that area, there might be some still, some remnant that might be detected by a dog. That's something to consider as well.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

The current owner of the property on the west side of the Saugeen river, where Ringle says he took Chrissy says police have not been back there for at least eight years. If that is true, then nobody has really been actively looking for Chrissy. So that's what we intend to do. Uncover from CBC Podcasts is your source for exceptional storytelling and groundbreaking journalism. Hear how lives were altered forever by results from one DNA lab.

[Dave Ridgeon]

I'm like, what? What do you mean he's not my son?

[David Ridgeon]

And unravel the clues that a gravel pit may hold about one woman's disappearance.

[Dave Ridgeon]

It's just, it's OD because there was no trace of a scuffle. There was no nothing.

[David Ridgeon]

Hear the very best in award winning true crime. Listen to Uncover wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Just heading down this trail at the riverside at the east side of the Saugeen river out of Hanover Park. Lots of kingfishers in the trees. Those look like indigo buntings up there. The trail looks well trodden at this point. As we continue here, the ferns and dames rocket flowers start to close in. Great day to look for a body.

[David Ridgeon]

It's a few weeks later and I'm wading through underbrush in Hanover, Ontario. Every step I take is shadowed by what happened here. In the spring of 1993, Ringle met Chrissy on this path. He says he took her into the increasingly tangled woods ahead, then crossed the river. I want to see exactly where because Mary Ann will soon be arriving at the park that's disappearing behind me. And before she gets here, I want to make sure of where we'll be going. While she has been to the park and partway along this path, she says she's never been all the way down it. And later she'll help search the area west of the Saugeen river for the first time for Chrissy.

[Dave Ridgeon]

As you keep going here, the trail starts to divide. You can hear the town. Off to the left and to the right on the west side is the property that we're going to be searching today that we've been granted access to. The river bends off to the west and creates a peninsula, a large bend in the river that Ringel refers to in his conversations with police and undercover officers. He says they go right to the tip of the bend. It's very much an unused part of the trail here. I have to crouch down in order to get through. A lot of ferns and raspberry brambles logs across the trail here. They would have had to pick their way along here. If you go too fast, you can trip.

[David Ridgeon]

It's early June and the trail and entire area around me is Lush and overgrown. When Ringo and Chrissy traveled the same path in May 1993, it would have been somewhat easier going.

[Dave Ridgeon]

It's coming out to the tip here, so as you look across you can start to see a muddy bank on the other side.

[David Ridgeon]

The Saugeen river can flood in spring to varying degrees. And across the water I can see some sign of that. There are fewer trees, more grasses and mud. But the banks are high here and it doesn't seem like the flood margin goes that deep. It's only about 30ft before you'd hit a line of mature trees that would have trouble growing in a flooded area. It renews my hope that we might find some remainder of Chrissy. I come up to the tip and stop dead.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah, I think that's it there. I think that's the spot where they crossed. It's gotta be both trails converge here. I think to continue this way you would start to go back down the other side of the peninsula. Right here, Right down here down this hill. And there's the water. This is the place. This is the place where Ringle pushed Chrissy in.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle told undercover officers that he pushed Chrissy into the water and then went to the other western side of the river.

[Marianne Russwurm]

She went downstairs a little bit and.

[Dave Ridgeon]

I when across and hit the bank.

[David Ridgeon]

To get there I've brought a couple of blow up boats.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Oh, it's ninebark. Huh? I didn't notice. It's all ninebark here. Yeah. Common nine bark.

[David Ridgeon]

My son Owen is here to help paddle them and some gear down to the tip of the peninsula where I just walked. This will be a temporary base camp of sorts. Owen's also brought a powerful magnet with him tied to a rope. We think it's worth trying dragging it along the bottom of the river nearby. Chrissy, according to Ringle, lost her glasses on the way across. And also perhaps a bracelet. There's a needle in a haystack of needles. Chance we'll find anything, but we try.

[Dave Ridgeon]

We're looking in the river, we're looking at the sides of the river, we're looking at this current and trying to figure out where the current might have taken objects. This is happening in 1993 and we're in 2024 now. And Chrissy will have been out here for that long, 31 years. I think that means that her remains could have been spread by water, by flood, by deterioration by other animals, spreading them further up away from the floodplain, possibly so that the margin of search is actually much broader and wider. Than where she initially was placed by Ringel. All right, so let's actually lift this boat down. Yep.

[David Ridgeon]

This will be the boat that Owen has lived. These cases alongside me for years. At the muddy banks of the Mississippi River. For the Dean Moore case up in Thompson with Trevor Brown. Searching Holmes Lake for the remains of Adrian McNaughton and for Donny Izzett on Dr. Noble's farm. And now here today, as we search for Chrissy.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay, there's one boat.

[David Ridgeon]

We head down the river. Ferns and flowers, bugs and birds. There is no shortage. Chrissy's favorite place is bursting with life.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Why is it that all these places are so fucking beautiful? I don't know. So we're just heading around the bend here. We've got no one paddling in the front. We're towing another canoe. Yeah. So you see this opening and then down there by that branch down there? That's where I think they. He started the cross with Chris. So the search area is really all around us. I think we should just go along the shoreline.

[David Ridgeon]

Ringle says he pushed Chrissy into the water and she drifted downstream a bit. He says he then jumped in after her and brought her to the western shore somewhere a short distance downriver on the other side.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Let's just see where the current takes. Says let's figure out the course. There's a good ledge here to get stuff stuck under. I think you could sort of get it under there.

[David Ridgeon]

There you go. On the end of the magnet are clumps of what looks like iron filings common in rivers and not remarkable. We're not expecting to find anything. OPP had divers in the Saugeen river for a couple of days in spring 2005. They, too were looking for Chrissy's glasses. But according to court documents, they were searching at closest, about 400 meters upstream of where Ringle tells police he crossed the river with Chrissy. The spot where Owen and I are right now.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Lots of morning warblers around here. I can really hear that morning warbler now. I wonder what they thought he was mourning or who it was. Uncannily, that morning warbler is right where I think Chrissy probably drifted to. I think I see some police tape over there.

[David Ridgeon]

As we float downriver from where I think Chrissy entered the water, something catches my eye. A tree on my left. And up the steep embankment on the western side of the Saugeen, a tree with a lone red OPP tape tied to one of its lower branches. Some distant time ago. I don't know when or for how long they were here. I wonder what this is.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Put it inside the boat. Piece of metal. Curved piece of metal. Ooh, that's interesting. Does that look like it could have been from glasses? Rim of glasses.

[David Ridgeon]

Owen has pulled up the magnet to find an old rusty nail. And something else. A curved piece of metal. Our excitement and wishful thinking want it to be a piece of Chrissy's glasses, but I suspect it may be nothing.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Really does look like a piece from a pair of glasses, doesn't it? You think so? I don't know. It's obviously impossible to say. And wishful thinking to say it's from glasses. Okay, so we're almost ready to get out of here.

[David Ridgeon]

Time to get back down the trail to Hanover Park. Marianne will soon be there after checking into her hotel, but someone else who will be helping us has just arrived.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Hello. How are you guys?

[David Ridgeon]

Kim Cooper and Pauline Sunman have arrived with their dogs, Recky and Taz, cadaver dogs that will be part of the search today.

[Dave Ridgeon]

How's it been going since I saw you last, Kim?

[Marianne Russwurm]

Good, good, good.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Busy this year is the.

[Marianne Russwurm]

We're just saying it's probably the busiest year we've had.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Is that right?

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

Kim and Pauline have volunteered on many searches like this, both live search and for human remains, including on SKS cases. And our hope is that they might find something where police searches did not. Kim wonders what I know about the prospective search area.

[Dave Ridgeon]

I have a map that they drew, but I mean, the area is the area, right? It's not just. It's been what, over 30 years? Right. So spread other animals, floodplain. I mean, other animals could have taken bone anywhere. Right. So within whatever you're. You must have some kind of matrix for measuring that, right?

[Marianne Russwurm]

Animals don't go far.

[David Ridgeon]

Yeah. If Ringel is being truthful. But where he took Chrissy in 1993, her remains could still be in this area. The floodplain doesn't seem to be consistent or even that high. And if, as Cooper says, other animals do not spread remains that far, we might have a slim chance and it's one that Mary Ann is willing to take.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Hi, how are you?

[Marianne Russwurm]

I'm all right.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Good to see you. Thanks for coming.

[David Ridgeon]

Mary Ann has driven here from her home a few hours away. She looks tired but determined.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Pauline and Kim, this is Marianne.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Hi, I'm Kim. Nice to meet you.

[Dave Ridgeon]

And today I'm not expecting miracles, but, you know, feel free to wander around in the woods after the dogs if you want. But, you know, if you Want to just kind of stay put in the shade. That's fine, too.

[David Ridgeon]

We begin our walk out to where I have placed the boats to make the crossing today. The likely point where Ringle says he and Chrissy went.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So we're coming up on the trail entrance here. And did police ever bring you out here before?

[Marianne Russwurm]

No.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So no one has ever brought you on this actual trail here?

[Marianne Russwurm]

No.

[David Ridgeon]

As we make our way out, it's tough going for Mary Ann.

[Dave Ridgeon]

How are you doing so far? Good.

[Marianne Russwurm]

There's lots of places to hide her that nobody would see her in this.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay, now be careful here. There's a big log. Grab my arm there. Okay, that's good. You're good. Watch out. I slipped right around here and face planted this morning. She's been here before, though, right? She would have known the area. He certainly knew the area.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So right around here is where you start to see that other shore. Yeah. So we're coming out. This is the very tip here. You have to go really low, though, down here. It's a really, really narrow little trail. You think you can come through there?

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah. Well, this is where it gets slippery.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah. There you go.

[David Ridgeon]

Marianne and the dog handlers hunch down almost to their knees, following me on the final segment of trail that leads to the water's edge.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So this is the place where I think they probably got to.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah, it makes sense.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah. And I think the red police tab is on that tree there. You can see it if you come over this way a bit. Yeah, just on this side. And she drifted down a bit. The flow probably wouldn't have been much bigger than this at the time. So that log down there would be the last place, I would say no more than 30ft in.

[Marianne Russwurm]

So if we're over here, like you say, 30ft in or so like the. Any kind of animal scatter should only be 100 meters, not much more.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah, Ringle, he was not implying that they were that far in. So I would say if you start at that log and you push. Okay. So I'll take the dog and Pauline over first just so she can get to work.

[David Ridgeon]

I retrieve the boat and paddle it to where everyone is waiting. I'll shuttle groups over in pairs across the section of water Ringle says he and Chrissy went through.

[Dave Ridgeon]

All right, you think the dog's gonna like getting in here?

[David Ridgeon]

Pauline and Taz get into the boat, and we're soon on the other side.

[Marianne Russwurm]

So I'm going to go along the shoreline, then I'll work my way back, and then When I feel I'm finished, I'll come back.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay. And we'll just be looking around in here. Okay, Great. Good luck.

[David Ridgeon]

I returned to pick up Mary Ann. She's afraid of water. Chrissy, too, would have been afraid here and wasn't a strong swimmer.

[Dave Ridgeon]

All right, just settle in for this journey across the river. It'll be a slow trip. When was the last time you were on that trail, Marianne?

[Marianne Russwurm]

I didn't go quite that far, but, yeah, it was that weekend.

[David Ridgeon]

Meaning that weekend when Chrissy disappeared in 1993.

[Dave Ridgeon]

That weekend, yep.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So that weekend you traveled that trail, but not that far. And then after that, you would not have come down that trail again.

[Marianne Russwurm]

No, I didn't.

[Dave Ridgeon]

No.

[David Ridgeon]

We get out of the boat on the other side of the river, where we believe Ringle crossed with Chrissy. Marianne has never been here before and ventures deep into bush.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Uh. Oh, shit.

[David Ridgeon]

Shit.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Sorry. Oh, here, give me your hand on there.

[David Ridgeon]

Marianne's leg has disappeared into a deep hole in the ground. I help her out, and she's okay. The ferns and grasses are up to our shoulders and we can't see the ground. Walking is a process of feeling with tips of toes first, then proceeding. It's a nearly impossible task.

[Dave Ridgeon]

There you go. Step right over that, Marianne. Sorry, I should have held onto you there. Bit of a clearing here, so that's a bit of a relief for you. Here you go. How's that? Okay. Don't go too close to the edge.

[David Ridgeon]

I walk around on my own for a while and can hear the ring of Taz. At one point, Taz comes up to me and I cannot even see her. She's less than a foot away. The overgrowth of ferns is too thick, and I come to a point of recognition. This is too difficult. I return to Marianne in the clearing.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So I think we should just go back to the beach myself, because it just seems pretty. I mean, we can keep wandering around and hope that we, you know, hit the right spot. But be careful. Here's that hole. There's another hole there.

[David Ridgeon]

We return to the beach after trudging back along our trail through the underbrush.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Threw my vertical off going through there.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Oh, you got a little bit of dizziness now. Yeah, yeah.

[David Ridgeon]

Mary Ann's fall makes her feel dizzy. We paused to catch our breath and await the searcher's return.

[Dave Ridgeon]

What do you think that Chrissy would be doing now?

[Marianne Russwurm]

What she would be doing. She'd probably have her own children, her own life, and she'd be out camping with them. Being summer, she Loved to camp.

[David Ridgeon]

We can hear the bells. And Pauline and Taz suddenly appear out of seemingly nowhere.

[Marianne Russwurm]

So there was a little area that she sort of perked up, but she didn't indicate.

[Dave Ridgeon]

You recorded that spot on there?

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah. Okay, good. How far down did you go? That way?

[Marianne Russwurm]

Well, I think I went as far as you pointed out.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Okay.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah. So it's pretty dense in there.

[Dave Ridgeon]

It's very dense. Yeah.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah.

[Dave Ridgeon]

The better time to come is like a month and a half earlier. I'm gonna probably have to come back, walk the whole area, like next year kind of thing.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Or even in the fall.

[Dave Ridgeon]

In the fall?

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah, when everything dies down.

[David Ridgeon]

Kim Cooper confirms that she and Recky will not continue the search today. Conditions are not right.

[Marianne Russwurm]

I mean, I've got a lot of trust in Taz. I don't think it has to be worked again. Okay.

[Dave Ridgeon]

I'll revisit this place at some point. You know, it's too bad that it's so high, but I think smell is smell. I mean, if anything, the ferns are going to keep the smell down, which isn't necessarily good.

[Marianne Russwurm]

We like it up because then it moves around and the dogs can pick it up from further away because it's being carried by the wind. If it's being smothered, it's. They'd have to be right on top of it.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah. Okay. Well, then that's. That's too bad. Thanks for trying that. I may go try and do a little bit of metal detecting now, but I'll probably get out of here as well soon. But I think I can get all that stuff over here.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Okay.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Myself, and thanks so much.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah, no problem.

[David Ridgeon]

Kim and Pauline have agreed to come back here, and I'll be here when it happens.

[Dave Ridgeon]

That's when we had to go. If you go too early, though, then it's too wet and tough to get around. Muddy. If you go in the fall, you just have to go before freeze.

[David Ridgeon]

So back at the hotel with Mary Ann for a debrief.

[Marianne Russwurm]

It's hard going through there.

[David Ridgeon]

Yeah.

[Marianne Russwurm]

And to try and find anything there would be difficult.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah, it was tough going, but that's.

[David Ridgeon]

That's.

[Dave Ridgeon]

That's okay. I mean, we tried. That's part of the reason we tried it is because we wanted to try. I trust the dogs.

[David Ridgeon]

I trust the handlers.

[Dave Ridgeon]

So I think that we have to kind of live with that. It also shows me that if that area had been searched, because I went up and down a path like four times and that path was easily discernible, you could easily See that path through the grass? So Ringel went back the next day. They both walked to this spot. Somehow went to this spot. He forced Chrissy, but she went there with her and would have trampled the grass too. So that's three different trips or four different trips in the same area. I feel like she would have been found.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah. They didn't search. They would have found her.

[David Ridgeon]

The west side of the sogging was not searched in 1993 after Chrissy disappeared, according to records.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah. I mean even Pauline, you could see where she'd been after one walk through. I don't know about sort of five days later, but a couple of days later you would have been able to see that trail.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Right, exactly. And I told them I know she's there. I could feel it.

[Dave Ridgeon]

And that just makes me not angry but just kind of. It's unfortunate. Right. And these are things you have to hold inside and accept as you know. You're an expert at accepting but not accepting.

[David Ridgeon]

Right.

[Dave Ridgeon]

And you have to hold it inside and you have to accept that it's there or else you won't be able to function. You have to be able to manage and survive with this stuff inside you. And you've done that commendably.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Yeah. I had to do it if I wouldn't. If I had wondered, you know. Yeah. It's just something I have to do.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah. I hope you have a safe journey home. And you know, I wish we'd be able to say that we found Chrissy today, but we'll see you.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Without you doing that, nothing would have happened.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Well, it does. It feels like something happened in the work was worthwhile anyways and you're in it. I mean, you, you're the reason that we did it.

[David Ridgeon]

Right. All right.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Okay.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Thank you so much.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Hated.

[Dave Ridgeon]

Yeah. Okay, take care.

[Marianne Russwurm]

Bye.

[David Ridgeon]

I say my goodbyes and head back to the site to do some end of day metal detecting and to gather all the gear and my thoughts.

[Dave Ridgeon]

If you fight the thing that you hate or that you're afraid of or that you can't solve, that's when you get the problems you have to accept. You accept it and you keep trying and you move on. And it's part of you. It's okay. She's part of this entire place now. She's not just in one place, which was her favorite place.

[David Ridgeon]

It's cold comfort.

[Dave Ridgeon]

But that's okay. It's okay.

[David Ridgeon]

I find nothing with the detector. In fact, I find that it's more of a distraction. But this ridiculously beeping device is a good reminder we're here to survive, but also to do more than that. And that is what we will do.

[Dave Ridgeon]

You gotta keep trying. You gotta keep trying. I don't think you need to accept it. I think you just have to keep trying.

[David Ridgeon]

This is the final planned episode in the case of Christine Heron. For more investigations, check out the past seasons of Someone Knows Something. From a deadly bomb hidden inside inside a flashlight to two teenagers killed by the kkk, there are eight seasons of Someone Knows Something you can binge listen to right now, wherever you get your podcasts. If you want to watch my original 2011 TV documentary, visit the CBC podcast's channel on YouTube or hit the link in this week's show. Notes Someone Knows Something is hosted, written and produced by me, David Ridgeon. The series is also produced by Katie Swires. Sound design by Evan Kelly. Natalia Ferguson is our transcriber. Emily Cannell is our digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez. Our podcast art was designed by Ben Shannon. Our cross promo producer is Amanda Cox. Our video producer is Evan Agard. Special thanks to Dave Modi and Sean Moorman. Tanya Springer is the senior manager, Arif Noorani is the director and Leslie Merklinger is the Executive Director of CBC Podcasts. Our music is by Key Witness and.

[Dave Ridgeon]

It land and it feels Faith and I crave can lift you in trace Step back home running like grave. Take it to.

[David Ridgeon]

For more CBC Podcasts, go to CBC capodcasts.