The Next Call with David Ridgen: Episode 4 in the case of Terrie Dauphinais (UPDATE)

Summary

Summary of "Someone Knows Something" - Season 9, Episode 4: "The Next Call with David Ridgen: Episode 4 in the case of Terrie Dauphinais (UPDATE)"

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Introduction

In the fourth episode of Season 9 of the acclaimed CBC podcast Someone Knows Something, host David Ridgen delves deeper into the chilling case of Terrie (Terry) Ann Dauphinais, a 24-year-old Métis woman from Calgary, Alberta, whose mysterious disappearance and subsequent murder have long haunted her family and community. This episode provides a significant update on the investigation, focusing on the arrest and conviction of Ken Dauphiney, a central figure previously implicated in Terry's murder.

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Background of the Case

Terrie Dauphinais, a book-loving teenager from Hanover, Ontario, vanished in the spring of 1993 while leaving for school. Her disappearance remained unsolved for decades until a suspect emerged, confessing to her murder. However, the case initially fell apart, leaving Terry's family without answers. In Season 9, David Ridgen, alongside Terry's mother, Sue Martin, reopens the investigation, confronting the man who confessed to Terry's murder.

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Investigation into Terry Dauphinais' Murder

Terry was found dead on April 29, 2002, at her home, exhibiting signs of severe trauma, including a broken neck and multiple bruises—some older than 24 hours, the origin of which remained unknown. Her tumultuous relationship with Ken Dauphiney, marked by instances of violence and separation, made Ken a prime suspect early on.

Sue Martin, Terry's mother, poignantly describes her anguish:

"We only had 10 minutes to view our daughter before she was cremated. I know she's in a better world and they can't hurt her. But when we lost Terry, we just didn't lose Terry. We lost three more family members. We lost her children."
[02:45]

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Ken Dauphiney as a Suspect

Ken Dauphiney, Terry's estranged husband, became the focus of an undercover operation by the police, known as Operation Homefront. This five-month initiative aimed to build Ken's trust and extract a confession by involving him in a fabricated organization dealing in credit card swipe machines and firearms.

During the undercover recordings, Ken made statements that law enforcement interpreted as admissions of guilt:

"Before I fucking turn, she's stepping in the way. No, no. And I think I just fucking grabbed her and tossed her out of the way."
[05:10]

Despite these incriminating statements, Ken maintained his innocence publicly, claiming that an intruder was responsible for Terry's death.

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Trial and Conviction

In February 2021, after a prolonged legal battle, the case against Ken was stayed, leading to his release after a year due to insufficient fresh evidence. However, in December 2021, with the stay nearing its end, Ken was arrested again on charges unrelated to Terry's murder—specifically for the sexual assault and choking of another woman.

Sue Martin expressed her frustration and despair over the recurring legal struggles:

"It's like, wah. So what happened in this other case and to whom, and what might it mean for Terry and her mother?"
[08:35]

Despite these setbacks, renewed evidence linking Ken to the sexual assault case emerged, leading to his conviction on June 2, 2024. Although Ken was found guilty of sexual assault and choking, the court did not convict him for Terry's murder due to reasonable doubt regarding his intent during the choking incident.

Crown Prosecutor Corey Bliss summarized the verdict:

"Ken Dauphine was charged with committing a sexual assault on the Survivor between 2007 and 2008. He was also charged with a count of choking to overcome resistance for facilitating a sexual assault... Justice Curry convicted him of the sexual assault but had a reasonable doubt as to what his intent was at the time that he choked the survivor."
[22:09]

Ken received a sentence of four and a half years in jail, a verdict that has left Sue Martin feeling both vindicated and disillusioned with the justice system.

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Impact on Sue Martin and the Community

Sue Martin, steadfast in her quest for justice, has been a pillar of strength throughout the investigation. Her emotional testimony and unwavering belief in Ken's guilt have been central to the narrative.

Upon hearing the survivor's testimony during the trial, Sue was deeply affected:

"When she spoke, when it came out of her mouth what he had done to her... I sat down and I broke down and cried because that's what he did to Terry."
[26:45]

Sue's resilience is further exemplified through her continuous efforts to support other victims and her dedication to keeping Terry's memory alive. She emphasizes the importance of community support and healing through cultural practices:

"Praying every day, smudging every day that I can walk with my head held up high to speak that truth and for the Creator to keep on guiding me..."
[37:18]

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Perspectives from Law Enforcement and Analysts

Kathleen Goldthar, a retired Calgary homicide analyst involved in Terry's case, shares her unwavering conviction in Ken's guilt:

"My feeling, I am 100% certain that Ken killed Terry. So there. That's my opinion. I'm just tired. I guess I got tired of people getting away with murder."
[35:50]

Goldthar discusses the challenges faced during the initial investigation, including insufficient prosecution strategies and overlooked evidence. Her dedication led her to leave active duty, unable to continue dealing with the frustrations of the case's stagnation.

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Conclusion

The latest developments in the Terrie Dauphinais case highlight both the progress and the persistent challenges within the Canadian justice system. While Ken Dauphiney's conviction for sexual assault provides some closure, the unresolved questions surrounding Terry's murder continue to weigh heavily on her family and supporters. Sue Martin remains a vocal advocate for justice, urging others to come forward and support victims of similar crimes.

As Someone Knows Something continues to explore this harrowing case, it underscores the vital role of investigative journalism in seeking truth and accountability, offering hope to families yearning for answers and urging systemic changes to prevent future injustices.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sue Martin on the emotional toll of Terry's death:

  "We lost three more family members. We lost her children."
  [02:45]

• Ken Dauphiney during the trial:

  "With Ken, I was in a domestic violence relationship... and being away from them is scarier than staying with them."
  [16:50]

• Sue Martin reflecting on the survivor's testimony:

  "When she spoke... I broke down and cried because that's what he did to Terry."
  [26:45]

• Corey Bliss on the verdict:

  "Justice Curry convicted him of the sexual assault... [but] had a reasonable doubt as to what his intent was at the time that he choked the survivor."
  [22:09]

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This detailed summary encapsulates the pivotal moments and emotional depth of the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those unfamiliar with the Someone Knows Something podcast series.

Transcript

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Between 1973 and 1986, the Golden State Killer terrorized Californians. He scoped out the homes he would enter. Police would find cigarettes under a tree by a window.

[Ken Dauphine]

So he was frequently there at the.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Window, in the backyard, in the dark. I'm Kathleen Goldthar and this week on Crime why it took police more than 40 years to identify the Golden State Killer. Find Crime Story wherever you get your podcasts.

[David Ridgeon]

This is a CBC podcast. The following episode contains difficult subject matter, including references to sexual assault. Please take care while listening.

[Sue Martin]

Hello Ken.

[David Ridgeon]

Can I ask you a couple of times.

[Sue Martin]

No, you can't comment. Come on CBC. Really?

[David Ridgeon]

Get a drink?

[Sue Martin]

No.

[David Ridgeon]

It's a sunny July 2024 day on the steps of the King's Bench Courthouse in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Ken Dauphine is here today, accompanied by his mother, Joanne. He has a light beard going and a dark blazer and blue shoes. He tells the CBC reporter to get a grip as he walks by, clutching his phone tightly. You'd never suspect by his casual demeanor that Daphne is about to enter the final day of a trial where he'd been charged with choking a woman before sexually assaulting her.

[Sue Martin]

You want to comment on this case or case?

[David Ridgeon]

You're.

[Sue Martin]

I will get my lawyer out here or just. We don't want you to bother us, please. Bye Bye.

[David Ridgeon]

Ken Dauphiney is a central figure in my podcast series about the murder of Terry Ann Dauphine, his wife. If you haven't heard my investigation into Terry's case, you can find it on the Someone Knows Something podcast feed. All three episodes are available now.

[Sue Martin]

Broken neck she was black and blue from head to toe. My daughter didn't have dignity. My daughter was treated like garbage and that's an image in my head.

[David Ridgeon]

Terry was found dead in the front hall of her home on the morning of April 29, 2002, around 10:30am wearing only a dressing robe. Ruptured capillaries are evident on Terry's neck and face. Fresh bruises and scrapes are present on her body, but also some bruising that is older than 24 hours. The origin of these older bruises is unknown.

[Sue Martin]

We only had 10 minutes to view our daughter before she was cremated. I know she's in a better world and they can't hurt her. But when we lost Terry, we just didn't lose Terry. We lost three more family members. We lost her children.

[David Ridgeon]

Terry, a 24 year old Metis woman, had been living with her daughter and two sons in a two story house in Calgary, Alberta. Terry had been married to Ken Dauphine for about four Years. But they were undergoing a separation at the time. The coroner ruled cause of death with the following compression by either parts of a hand or parts of a hand and some form of cloth band. Terry and Ken's relationship had been tumultuous. And according to investigative records, Ken could get violent. In one instance, twisting Terry's arm. Ken stated in a police interview that he had had unprotected sexual intercourse with Terry twice. Once on the morning and again in the afternoon of the day she is thought to have been murdered. It didn't take long for police to focus in on Ken as a suspect in Terry's murder.

[Ken Dauphine]

I guess I have to assume that.

[Sue Martin]

I do, I suspect, I really do.

[Ken Dauphine]

I do, Ken, and I think you realize that too.

[Sue Martin]

And we didn't focus on Ken as the only suspect. We had other suspects and we tried to clear them as we could.

[David Ridgeon]

But the strongest one was, of course.

[Sue Martin]

Ken, because his story was filled with holes.

[David Ridgeon]

As the prime suspect in Terry's murder, Ken Dauphiney became the subject of an undercover Mr. Big operation by police for about five months. Several undercover scenarios, codenamed Operation Homefront, involved Ken in a fake organization that was peddling credit card swipe machines and firearms with the goal to build Ken's trust and elicit a confession in Terry's case.

[Corey Bliss]

I think when we were starting, I.

[Sue Martin]

Went downstairs to fucking get some shakes.

[David Ridgeon]

And she didn't want me to leave. Ken says in the undercover recording. He continues.

[Sue Martin]

No, no, but I think that's just grabbed her and tossed her in a way.

[David Ridgeon]

Before I fucking turn, she's stepping in the way. No, no. And I think I just fucking grabbed her and tossed her out of the way.

[Corey Bliss]

She went down funny and that was holy fuck, like panic mode.

[David Ridgeon]

She went down funny and that was holy fuck, like panic mode and extra panic mode.

[Sue Martin]

Because there's three little people like, you.

[David Ridgeon]

Gotta take care of this. To police, it seemed those statements were an admission Ken had killed Terry. They arrested him and charged him with second degree murder. Publicly, Ken had always maintained that an intruder had killed Terry. And in the end, much of the information deemed pertinent by the prosecution and police would eventually be disallowed from the courtroom by Madame Justice Rosemary Nation for being vague, coerced, and as a result of an abusive process on the part of police.

[Sue Martin]

I'm going to call it a shit show, because that's what it is.

[David Ridgeon]

The case was stayed in February 2021, and Ken Dauphine was free after a year without fresh evidence. The case against Ken for Terry's Murder eventually comes to an end. But before the stay is up, I receive a very intriguing call.

[Sue Martin]

Good afternoon, David. How are you?

[David Ridgeon]

Hi. I'm good, Sue. Thanks for calling. What's up? It's Sue Martin on the phone. Terry Ann Dauphine's mother. I first met sue in 2015 on an island in the Ottawa River. Sue had organized a ceremony, spending over 200 nights in the cold, wet weather, desperate to draw attention on her daughter's case.

[Sue Martin]

Ah, well, it's been a trying week.

[David Ridgeon]

Oh, no.

[Sue Martin]

Yeah, we get the news and I wanted to let you know that Ken was arrested again for serious crime. I don't know which province it was in.

[David Ridgeon]

Okay. And did you find out through your source what the reasons for the arrest were or any kind of explanation?

[Sue Martin]

It is a very, very serious crime, David.

[David Ridgeon]

In December 2021, with only two months remaining before the stay expires, Ken Dauphine is sought on a police warrant for the sexual assault and choking of a different woman. Two days after the arrest warrant is issued, Ken turns himself in to Saskatoon police. So do you think police have been following him since he was released?

[Sue Martin]

I don't know.

[David Ridgeon]

Okay?

[Sue Martin]

I really don't know. All I know is once this day came, he was free to do whatever he was allowed to do, travel wherever he wanted to go. And I know that his defense lawyers probably told him to keep his nose clean for one year, but it feels like we're on this ever ending nightmare of a roller coaster that it slams and then all of a sudden you go on this horrifying ride again. It's just like, wah.

[David Ridgeon]

So what happened in this other case and to whom, and what might it mean for Terry and her mother?

[Sue Martin]

Sue, like I told you, I keep on hearing that one detective's voice in my head from 12 years ago. Sue, we might not ever get him. And that's what's ringing loudly in my ears and in my heart.

[David Ridgeon]

I'm David Ridgeon, and this is the Terry Dauphiny Case Update episode. Come forward.

[Sue Martin]

It's been a long time fighting. I'm here. I'm his worst nightmare, and I will continue to be his worst nightmare because he is a predator. So right now, we're praying for a guilty verdict. We all believe that that's going to come.

[David Ridgeon]

Sue Martin in a flowered skirt, white shirt and moccasins, standing on the same steps that Ken Dauphine just walked up into the Saskatoon courthouse. It's July 2, 2024. Sue's been attending this new trial since the beginning. Based on what she heard, she Is convinced Ken Dauphiney is guilty not just of this crime, but also the murder of Terry.

[Sue Martin]

It wasn't a shit show this time. The crown was right on this whole case. And I'm very thankful for the crown and I'm thankful for judge Curry for seeing what he really is. We arranged for an elder to come and do a smudge in a prayer and stuff. And I pulled in very strong, powerful family members of the murder. The missing indigenous women and girls, Filled it up with strong, powerful metis and full blooded native women.

[David Ridgeon]

Sue is cree and has surrounded herself with a capable support system which also includes crown prosecutor Corey Bliss.

[Corey Bliss]

You know, this has been one of the most interesting cases I've been involved with because it spans provinces, it spans many years, and it spans two horrible crimes, One of murder and one of sexual assault and choking.

[David Ridgeon]

How did the case against Ken Daphne here come about and what were the actual charges that were in play in the case?

[Corey Bliss]

The survivor in this case came to police in 2008, concerned for her safety, Concerned that something had happened to her that she found Very similar to a series of allegations involving Ken Dauphine and his deceased wife, Terry. And so she came to the police wanting to report this in the event something ever happened to her. And the police did take that report and promised her that they would not proceed with charges without informing her. And it wasn't until many years later, until the Calgary police service had been involved in investigating the murder of Terry, that further information was provided to the crown Such that we could consider moving the matter forward.

[David Ridgeon]

Back in the summer of 2017, Calgary police were contacted by a tattoo artist in Winnipeg who had a client that she said was talking about a murder. The tattooist believed the man was talking about Terry Dauphiney. And that man was Ken Dauphine. The tattooist said that Ken told her that he'd gotten away with it before and that he could again adding, he said that he stomped her good. Stomped her, tromped her good. Those statements were not recorded. But when Daphne returns to the tattoo artist's shop on future occasions, the tattoo artist records him using her iPad.

[Sue Martin]

What are you going to get tattooed, Ken?

[David Ridgeon]

An anchor.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

An anchor, really?

[David Ridgeon]

At some point, the Calgary police, Interested in any information Ken might utter about Terri, Formally engaged the tattoo artist and began paying her to work with them and. And to gather more surreptitious recordings of Ken. But during one of the recorded meetings made on November 10, 2017, Ken told the story of a different woman that he had assaulted. The story that Ken told the tattoo artist Was basically Identical to the assault reported to police in 2008. When they realized this, police approached the survivor asking if now, over a decade later, she wished to proceed with charges. She agreed, and Ken was arrested last week.

[Sue Martin]

On Wednesday, in the video audio tape from the tattoo artist. And I'm going to say his words, okay?

[David Ridgeon]

Sue Martin has been attending the case in the courtroom and describes the graphic details she heard Ken say on the tattoo artist's recordings when he spoke about assaulting this different woman.

[Sue Martin]

I'm going to use his. What he said in the audio tape. I had to punch her. I choked her out. I fucked her and I came all over her face. And those were his words, not mine, his words and laughing about it afterwards. And when he took the stand on his own defense last week on Thursday, he tried to downplay it. His saying was, she was asleep. I wanted to make love to her. So when she woke up, I was making love to her. And when the Crown was cross examining him, he was very combative about everything. And the Crown asked him about the word seduction. And he basically got angry and defensive and said, well, look it up in the dictionary.

[Ken Dauphine]

I met Ken through a mutual friend and we ended up roommates in a sense, because he needed a nanny and I needed a place to live.

[David Ridgeon]

The survivor of that sexual assault by Ken Dauphine, in the first and only public interview she's ever given on this case, her identity is protected by publication ban. She says she met Ken through friends and then started looking after his three children in exchange for a place to live the three children he had with Terry.

[Ken Dauphine]

And so we got to know each other that way and we started dating shortly after that. And then there was an incident that happened that involved. I was choked and then, while unconscious, sexually assaulted. And when I realized the nature of the trauma that had happened to me, I was reminded that the similar situation happened to Terry, except for she didn't survive. So there was a lot of trauma there. Realizing that this man, in my opinion at the time, did in fact kill his wife.

[David Ridgeon]

Did he ever tell you anything about that? Did he ever mention Terry to you?

[Ken Dauphine]

He did shortly when we started dating. Said he was a person of interest, but he had details that the intruder had made their way into the home.

[David Ridgeon]

So did you know this about Ken as you got to know him, or did you learn about it after the incident with you?

[Ken Dauphine]

I learned about it shortly before. Some details.

[David Ridgeon]

The survivor tells me that at the time, she gave Ken the benefit of the doubt and she tried to believe his version of events and that any Gut instinct she may have had about him was blunted by the kind of relationship she says she had with Ken.

[Ken Dauphine]

With Ken, I was in a domestic violence relationship. And I'm sure many women would understand that you're beaten, battered and broken and you don't see an escape or you don't take your escape. And being away from them is scarier than staying with them and watching the cycle of violence repeat itself. Like keeping a close eye on them so you know when they're starting to escalate, try to stop it from happening. Be on your best behavior. Whereas when you're away from them, you're looking over your shoulder, you're wondering, is it going to be a surprise attack? And that, in a sense, was more fearful for me at the time.

[David Ridgeon]

What kind of escalation did you notice with Ken, in your relationship with him? Say you met him, moved in together as roommates, Then what happened?

[Ken Dauphine]

She would hyper focus on a certain situation that would happen. A lot of times it had to do with the drop off or pick up of my children with my ex husband. And any time spent with the ex husband, just chatting about the children, just updates on their health and their condition overall over the week put him. He would spiral into a bad mood and there'd be accusations and yelling and sometimes there'd be physical abuse that would follow that. And then there'd be the apology and the presence and the crying and yeah, the promise that, oh, it'll never happen again. And I believed him each and every time.

[David Ridgeon]

From meeting Ken, Daphne, to the point where you got out of it, how long was that period of time?

[Ken Dauphine]

It was roughly two years.

[David Ridgeon]

How did Ken's violence affect you? I guess afterwards? What's their ongoing effects? And can you just talk a little bit about that?

[Ken Dauphine]

A lot of triggers and suspicious thoughts about other people's intentions. The one thing I want to speak to is that when the police approached me, there was. I just would cry and cry and cry. And I was offered some credit towards counseling and accelerated resolution therapy. Art therapy was recommended by my victim services worker. And so I decided to try that. Anyone that is listening to this and experiencing this situation, I highly recommended finding a accelerated resolution therapist and navigating through those images in your head to maybe not maybe night terrors or something that they experience and just, you know, find healing that way. It's quite, quite successful if a person's motivated for healing.

[David Ridgeon]

Did you, have you spoken to Sue Martin much? Do you have a relationship with her?

[Ken Dauphine]

Oh, I do. She's been a major support she has been my mama bear in this situation. Nothing but love, kindness and caring. And it's been wonderful to have that support. I've brought my own support as well. Upwards of 12 to 13 people have been in attendance and just surrounded by powerful, powerful people. It's been a really comfortable journey considering the nature of what this has transpired from.

[David Ridgeon]

Yeah, that's amazing. I'm glad you have such support there.

[Ken Dauphine]

If there's women out there that have been traumatized by kin and they don't feel safe coming forward, maybe they can try and reach out. Like, I realize that I'm doing this anonymously, but there are ways of contacting the police and perhaps I can help them in an anonymous way to support. I don't know. I can't really think exactly how I would do that, but I would just like. I would like someone else to know that they're not alone. And I imagine there's a lot out there.

[Sue Martin]

Hi, I'm Christie Lee, the creator of Canadian True Crime. Join me for an immersive deep dive into some of the most thought provoking true crime cases in Canada. Using facts curated from court documents, inquiry reports and news archives, I carefully unravel and analyze each case, exposing the pitfalls of the criminal justice system that everyone needs to know about. Find Canadian True Crime wherever you listen to podcasts or visit canadiantruecrime.ca.

[David Ridgeon]

The Survivor and her supporters, led by Terry's mom, Sue Martin, are singing on the steps of the courthouse. After only a few hours on the last day of the trial, the court reached a verdict. Ken Dauphine is guilty, sentenced to four and a half years in jail. I ask Crown Prosecutor Corey Bliss for the breakdown of the conviction and sentencing.

[Corey Bliss]

Ken Dauphine was charged with committing a sexual assault on the Survivor between 2007 and 2008. He was also charged with a count of choking to overcome resistance for facilitating a sexual assault. The justice in this case, Justice Curry, convicted him of the sexual assault but had a reasonable doubt at as to what his intent was at the time that he choked the survivor. He found that it could have been that the choking occurred out of anger and therefore the justice convicted him of a common assault being the choking that occurred in this case. There were many people attending court today both in support of Candofany as well as in support of the survivor and I think even some people in support of Terry Dauphine. Everyone handled themselves in a very dignified fashion. There were no outbursts that I could hear or see. Even Ken in his elocution when the Judge gave him a chance to speak, although he disagreed with the conviction, you know, felt some sympathy for the pain that the survivor was expressing.

[David Ridgeon]

I asked the survivor for her final thoughts.

[Ken Dauphine]

Okay. I'm pleased with the verdict. I think that four and a half years is adequate for what happened. And just knowing that, I guess in a sense that justice has been served in this case.

[David Ridgeon]

Coming into it, did you have an expectation of what might happen today? Were you wondering?

[Ken Dauphine]

I guess it was just natural to have a number in my mind. And I kind of. And I like odd numbers. So I thought, oh, five years would be. Would be good. So we're close.

[Sue Martin]

Sha Nana. Hey, hey, hey. Goodbye. Hey, David. How are you doing, brother?

[David Ridgeon]

Hey, how are you? Is the question. Sue Martin back at her hotel after the guilty verdict.

[Sue Martin]

That was powerful today. I wish he would have got more time for his crime, but the best part of it is he has to give his DNA. Now he's on this, the sex offender register. And I believe very strongly that more is going to come out of this because he was a truck driver driving all over the place. So once they put his D in that data bank, I think more is going to come out of it. David, I just got this strong feeling.

[David Ridgeon]

The conviction also reinforces Sue's belief that Ken Dauphiney killed Terry and that he's likely done much more. Sue also has strong feelings about the people involved in Ken's previous trial for the murder of her daughter. That trial went nowhere.

[Sue Martin]

So I wonder how they sleep at night knowing that they led a killer walk from and a rapist and a woman beater, an alpha male that has to have control on everything, walked free and is now being sentenced to jail for four and a half years. I also wonder how Judge Rosemary Nation, the last judge on the trial for Terry, feels the system needs to change because they're letting. I'm going to say it. The justice system isn't for the victims, it's for the perpetrators. I think in these cases, like Ken, Daphne, he's a serial perpetrator. And if there is any other women out there that this man has infected, please come forward. We will stand with you. We will support you. We will protect you. Don't be afraid. Take back your power. Take back your power. Please, I'm begging you, come forth so that he cannot hurt another woman out there.

[David Ridgeon]

I asked sue what she thought when she heard the survivor testify about her experience.

[Sue Martin]

It did hit me when she spoke, when it came out of her mouth what he had done to her. And I didn't show it in front of him or anything. We walked away from the courthouse, and I was about two blocks away, and I sat down and I broke down and cried because that's what he did to Terry. Did he do it to her while she was alive? And did he do it after he murdered her, after he took her life? So it did affect me and stuff, because she described everything that I knew that happened to Terri. And all these years that I have been doing public speaking about Terry and stuff, I knew deep inside of me that he did this. Why aren't you helping the police? Why aren't you finding out who did this to the mother of your three children? But I think four and a half years, because he said, I'd rather be dead than spend any time in jail. Well, I wonder how he feels being in jail now. I wonder how he feels that when a great big sheriff comes and put hands, handcuffs on him because he's a coward to face another man. He's a perpetrator of women that likes to choke and beat them. Because he's the alpha dog. And those are his words. He's the alpha dog.

[David Ridgeon]

Sue says she has gotten to know the tattoo artist and has thanked her for her work and for coming forward.

[Sue Martin]

I am so proud of these women for stepping forward. She didn't have to come forward. When he bragged about getting away with murder, he got away with it once, he can get away with it again, meaning Terry. And she just knew that it was someone's daughters, someone's sister, someone's mother. She did it because she's got a good spirit and a good heart about her, and she wanted to really see Ken pay for what he did.

[David Ridgeon]

You weren't allowed to give a victim impact statement here?

[Sue Martin]

No.

[David Ridgeon]

Nor in the other case, the other trial. Can you tell me what yours would be?

[Sue Martin]

That Ken spend the rest of his life behind bars and never, ever get a chance to be out of jail so that he could never, ever hurt another human being. And I always said to my husband, God forbid, if anything ever happened and I lose another child, you might as well take me, lock me up and throw the key away, because there's no turning back for me. Right? He just about succeeded. But it's our way of life, our culture. Be a native going to ceremony and working on me to be out at the forefront. I'm not going to be that Susan that I was 22 years ago. I'm not going to be that Susan 45 years ago. If I can do anything in this impact statement is to keep on speaking. This is the end, I guess, for me in this journey. But not for helping women, not for helping family members of the murdered and missing of any walk of life. Don't care who you are, I will always be there. But this is the end of the journey for this chapter for me and for my husband. It doesn't mean that we're ever going to get justice for Terry. I don't think that's ever going to happen. But it means it's a closed chapter for me of this part of my life.

[David Ridgeon]

Sue is exhausted from today and all the days since Terry was killed. I'm not sure this is the end of the road for her. On Terry's case, police I've spoken to believe that much of the important evidence against Ken Dauphine for Terry's murder wasn't brought forward.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

That's why sue asked me to speak with you too. Right. Because you've given her a lot through this podcast and you've given sue at least something Right. That we weren't able to give her.

[David Ridgeon]

A recently retired Calgary police officer who worked on all aspects of Terry's case. Her name is protected on a publication ban for officers who worked on undercover operations. Based on the evidence collected, she too is convinced Ken Dauphiney murdered Terry.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

So I am a crime analyst, a homicide analyst specifically. I worked on the file very closely. I retired because of the file. I literally quit my job because of Ken getting away with murder.

[David Ridgeon]

Police, particularly investigators I've met, often have one or two cases out of the many they encounter in their career that they carry on their shoulders every day. The one that didn't get solved or the one that could have been. Sometimes the lack of conclusion can get so excruciating for them that these officers have to talk. For this investigator, It's Terry's case.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Yeah. Okay. So, yep. My job as an analyst was to pull all the data together, pull everything together and create a picture. And I did a. I spent quite a bit of time putting together a timeline of events of all. All the incidences, of all the calls, the previous calls of violence, any history, profiling, tracking. I spent quite a bit of time locating evidence to try to corroborate information. You have this opportunity, in hindsight, to look and see what people were doing at the time of the offense, the investigation, the initial investigation. So you have this really privileged opportunity to see things that may have been missed.

[David Ridgeon]

Yeah.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Look from an angle that it wasn't viewed from previously.

[David Ridgeon]

Yes.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

And I think initially when something happens, people have. You're gathering a Lot of information, a lot of data from all over the place. And to sift through that and find the nuggets of gold from, you know, the sand, that is a challenge in any initial, you know, part of an investigation. So from a cold case perspective, things are a bit easier. You get to look through all of the interview information, all of the data, view everything, and it's easier to find those nuggets.

[David Ridgeon]

That's basically what I do.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

And then when I came over to Cold Case Homicide from Active Homicide, I came. When I came to Cold Case, this was a focus, a very big priority, obviously. So we. We actually put our heart and soul into this file. And I think in this case, in this file, some of the initial interview information, there was some fantastic information that unfortunately the crown was not able to or felt that they were unable to go forward with, which was very distressing. We spent a lot of time on that evidence and that information, and we want to get the answer, and we're serving the families of these victims, and we put our whole heart into it. So it was very frustrating to see it fall down in the prosecution side. And I know that we all felt very much in disagreement with that. But he is the prosecutor and he is the lead, and it was his decision to make. And we had several meetings to try and dispute that and other pieces of information. And in every case, he went forward with what he felt was the best, best strategy, which we know was not. So that was frustrating. We had to sit silently and watch, and it was painful.

[David Ridgeon]

Similar to Sue Martin, this officer felt let down by the system. Cases can and do fall apart regardless of what information is available or how it's been gathered. There is no guarantee that having your ducks in a row ensures the outcome you desire. But ducks in a row are better than no ducks at all, in my opinion.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

My feeling, I am 100% certain that Ken killed Terry. So there. That's my opinion. I'm just tired. I. I guess I got tired of people getting away with murder. There are people out there that have information, and if they came forward, it would make a difference.

[David Ridgeon]

And, you know, they have this information.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

Yeah, I believe they do.

[David Ridgeon]

The officer says while Terry's case stays with her, she's hopeful for a resolution for Terry and for Sue, Tony and.

[Sue Martin]

I. Terry's dad sat in the homicide department for the full day, and we saw everything.

[David Ridgeon]

Sue has gotten to know many of the investigators involved in examining Terry's murder over her years of shaking trees. And she says that Calgary police recently showed her much of the evidence they had gathered over the years for Terry's case, everything.

[Sue Martin]

So I think it's going to curl. Your hair.

[David Ridgeon]

What hair I have left?

[Sue Martin]

Well, your beard, your mustache, whatever hair you have.

[David Ridgeon]

Yeah. You know, there's a lot on the table, and I remember you. We did an interview. I asked sue, as she relaxes back at her hotel room, how it is that she has survived not only Terry's murder, but her long struggle in the aftermath for answers and justice.

[Sue Martin]

Ceremony. Praying every day, smudging every day that I can walk with my head held up high to speak that truth and for the Creator to keep on guiding me, even though my heart is shattered and rebellion pieces. My advice to family members, go to your priests, go to your pastor, whoever you you go to, if you go to church or whatever, go and talk, Talk about what h has happened to you. Because that's part of our journey that gives our strength. Because we're getting all that hate, all that anger out of us. Because if we don't talk and deal with it, it's like a cancer growing inside us, and we get pulled in many, many different directions. So when you talk about this, it actually helps me. Going away, working on me and going to ceremony, cleansing ceremonies, you know, sweats. Walking our way out of life has really, really helped me. And praying every day, laying down my medicines every day. Which I do.

[David Ridgeon]

Yeah.

[Sue Martin]

Which I do. And I ask the Creator, please guide me. Please show me what I'm supposed to do. Please let me walk on Mother Earth gently and guide me to be that good person without anger, without hate in my heart or in my life. Being thankful that my marriage has stayed together because I have learned that with homicide, your families fall apart, you lose your marriage, you lose everything. If I could give everything I own to have my child back, I would. But I know that's not possible. But I am very thankful and very humbled that I'm still married to my husband and that I have a good marriage and I have a great circle of family and friends that support me and walk beside me. If you interview families, there are days where we don't want to get out of bed, where we just want to pull the sheets over and hide and not deal with it. But something. When we hear another one being raped, another one being murdered, and another one gone missing, it's almost like there's a fire set underneath us, that we have to keep on doing this whether we want to or not. I'm always willing to do the second part of this. There's lots to tell you when you get that information. You know what I do, David? I shake trees. And you are the trees, the politician and the evil people. So, yeah, I have no problem.

[David Ridgeon]

Thanks so much and congratulations and be.

[Sue Martin]

Safe out there and keep up the good work. And if you get all those papers, you better call me because you're going to be freaking shocked, you're going to be swearing. And you know what? I'll ground you, okay?

[David Ridgeon]

I need to be grounded and I'm happy that you're there to ground me. Thanks, Sue.

[Sue Martin]

You're welcome. No, thank you, buddy. And you know what? The creator put us on paths. When I was down on the island in home fires burning for a year and ceremony There was a reason why we met and this is the reason.

[David Ridgeon]

This is the reason. And we continue to walk, you betcha.

[Sue Martin]

You're my buddy. Got you back. Take care, David.

[David Ridgeon]

If you haven't heard my investigation into Terry Dauphiny's case, you can find it on the Someone Knows Something podcast feed. All three episodes are available now. Someone Knows Something is hosted, written and produced by me, David Ridgeon. Sound design by Evan Kelly. Emily Cannell is our digital producer. Chris Oak is our story editor. Special thanks to Jeremy Warren and Illy Yamamoto. Our executive producer is Cecil Fernandez. Tanya Springer is a senior manager, and Arif Noorani is the director of CBC Podcasts. If you love Someone Knows Something, tell a friend about the show and remember to hit follow to make sure you don't miss any episodes. A new season with a new case is coming soon.

[Sue Martin]

She left to go to school.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

She walked down the other side of.

[Ken Dauphine]

The street and around the corner, and.

[Sue Martin]

That was the last I've seen of her. The Crown attorney told us it was a slam dunk. At one point, he was 90% sure he was going to be convicted.

[Kathleen Goldthar]

I know all the different emotions you go through and how you got to handle it. And everybody kept telling me, why aren't you crying? I said, that's not going to get nothing done.

[David Ridgeon]

Someone Knows Something returns this fall with a new case and a new investigation.

[Sue Martin]

This story here, you and me till the day I die, fucking doesn't leave these lips.

[David Ridgeon]

For more CBC Podcasts, go to CBC capodcasts.