This Interrogation is Being Recorded [6]

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Someone’s Hunting Us
Episode Title: This Interrogation is Being Recorded [6]
Date: February 24, 2026
Hosts: Rebecca Everett & Daisy Calavia Robertson (NJ.com/The Star-Ledger)

This episode unpacks the critical police interrogation and arrest of Khalil Wheeler-Weaver, a serial killer who preyed on Black women and girls in New Jersey. Through interviews, first-person accounts, and chilling audio from police interrogations, the episode explores how detectives pressed Wheeler-Weaver for the truth, the devastating failures of law enforcement, and the extraordinary resilience of victims’ families and survivors. The episode also examines the enduring pain and hope of those left behind, and the search for justice, especially for the unidentified victim known as “Orange Jane Doe.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Interrogation of Khalil Wheeler-Weaver

• Rich Isaacs’ False Alibi and Police Pressure (01:02–03:21):

  • Rich Isaacs initially provides Wheeler-Weaver with a false alibi as directed by Khalil, but quickly buckles when confronted with hard evidence and a photo of the victim.
  • Notable quote:
    Rich Isaacs to police:
    “Fuck no. Hell no. I think that's probably why you didn't tell me.” (02:54)
  • The moment Rich sees Khalil being led to another interview room, he realizes just how deeply he was deceived.

• Khalil’s Police Interview Tactics (04:04–18:56):

  • Detectives Smith and Kruzness use a combination of psychological pressure and tactical reveals to break down Khalil’s lies.
  • Khalil initially refuses to talk (“Would you like to speak to us? Depends. It’s a yes or no question. No. No.” – 05:20), but returns to tell his version after being charged with murder.
  • Detectives catch him in multiple lies—about his alibi, the fabricated "mystery man," routes taken, and conflicting information about victims.
  • The presentation of damning evidence (photos, surveillance footage, phone records) steadily unravels his composure.
  • Detective Smith:
    “Twice. Twice you’re with females and they get dead shortly after you’ve seen with them.” (16:23)
  • Khalil tries to distance himself, but is unable to explain his actions or the overwhelming evidence.

• A Critical Slip—The Hot Mic Moment (18:13–18:56):

  • After detectives leave, Khalil, believing he is alone, mutters to himself about not having called the victim after her disappearance—akin to Robert Durst’s notorious self-incriminating mutter in The Jinx.
  • “I should have tried to call her.” (18:33)
  • This unguarded admission is captured on tape and cited as crucial evidence.

2. Discovery and Identification Failures

• The Forgotten Victim—Orange Jane Doe (19:09–26:26):
  • The haunting story of Mawa Dumbia, whose remains were left undiscovered in a derelict carriage house for two and a half years.
  • Despite a process meant to prevent these tragedies (collection of DNA for missing persons), authorities never uploaded her DNA to the system, leaving Mawa unidentified as “Orange Jane Doe.”
  • Moving accounts are shared from Mawa’s friends and family who held onto hope and honored her memory (e.g., her mother starting a hair braiding salon in her name).

3. The Public Unraveling

• Press Conference and Arrest Unveiled (27:09–29:18):

  • The public learns of Khalil’s arrest for Sarah Butler’s murder, though detectives are already building cases for additional killings (Robin West and Joanne Brown).
  • In court, Khalil is silent and expressionless as his not guilty pleas are entered.

• Tiffany’s Voice Heard (30:14–31:04):

  • Tiffany, a survivor of Wheeler-Weaver’s violence, asserts her experience to law enforcement and is finally truly listened to—a striking contrast to previous failures by police.
  • “They realize something that Elizabeth police did not. That she’s telling the truth. That she has crucial information about the killer. Tiffany is going to be their star witness.” (30:50)

4. The Impact on Survivors, Friends, and Families

• Shattered Trust and Grieving (31:23–36:27):

  • Friends and family of both victims and Khalil struggle to reconcile the reality:
    • Rich Isaacs expresses deep denial (“I know I’m in denial, you know, I don’t want to accept the fact that Khalil did what he said he did.” (33:50))
  • Families grapple with the indignity of press coverage referring to victims pejoratively, and the devastating lack of police communication (e.g., Bernisha Patterson learns of Robin’s death via Facebook – 35:15).

• Confronting the Killer in Court (35:45–36:43):

  • Victims’ families prepare to face Khalil in court, finding strength to honor the memory and humanity of their loved ones.

5. Compassion, Healing, and Unanswered Questions

• A Moment of Shared Grief and Grace (37:01–39:04):

  • A powerful courtroom moment witnessed by editor Jess Mazzola: Khalil’s mother and Sarah Butler’s father share a silent elevator ride, ending in an unexpected gesture of empathy.
  • Sarah’s father to Khalil’s mother:
    “It’s okay.” (38:13)
  • This moment stands as a testament to the possibility of empathy even amid unimaginable pain.
  • “We can’t change what happened. It doesn’t help to hold on to anger and hatred.” (39:04)

• The Search for Justice Continues (40:06–40:16):

  • As trial approaches for Wheeler-Weaver, families of unidentified victims like Orange Jane Doe await closure and justice remains elusive for complete identification.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Rich Isaacs, on realizing the scope of Khalil’s actions:
  “He’s like, the guy’s living like a fucking double life. He said he's a normal kid. It's like it's the same person, a switch. He's somebody else.” (33:32)
• Detective Smith, on piling evidence:
  “What are we after? 15 lies already? Come on, Khalil.” (16:06)
• Tiffany’s resolve witnessed in court:
  “They listen. They realize something that Elizabeth police did not. That she's telling the truth. That she has crucial information about the killer.” (30:48)
• Jess Mazzola, on the elevator scene:
  “He just showed so much grace and forgiveness immediately. They just had this sort of understanding and this camaraderie as parents who had both lost kids almost, but in the complete opposite ways.” (38:13)
• Sarah Butler’s father on loss and forgiveness:
  “We can't change what happened. It doesn't help to hold on to anger and hatred.” (39:04)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:02–03:21 — Rich Isaacs’ interrogation and realization.
• 04:04–06:01 — Detectives begin Khalil’s main interview.
• 07:19–10:02 — Khalil’s lies unravel under questioning.
• 12:34–13:23 — Detectives present crime scene photos.
• 16:06–16:33 — Detectives highlight pattern of Khalil’s lies.
• 18:33–18:56 — Khalil’s incriminating hot mic admission.
• 19:09–22:26 — Discovery of Orange Jane Doe and failures in identification.
• 27:09–30:07 — Press conference, arrest, and hearing for Khalil.
• 30:14–31:04 — Tiffany comes forward and is heard.
• 33:32–34:16 — Friends wrestle with Khalil’s double life.
• 37:01–39:04 — Elevator encounter and compassionate exchange between families.

---

Tone and Language

The narrative is somber, empathetic, and sharply critical of institutional failures. The journalists use vivid language and emotional interviews to convey the horror of Wheeler-Weaver’s crimes and the resilience, pain, and courage of those impacted.

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Summary

This episode masterfully reconstructs the crucial stages that led to the breakthrough in the Khalil Wheeler-Weaver investigation—from the unraveling of alibis to the tactical brilliance and emotional pressure employed in the interrogation. The episode exposes gaps in the justice system, especially regarding the most vulnerable victims, while honoring the memory and agency of the women at the heart of the case. The tragic and unjust delay in identifying Orange Jane Doe (Mawa Dumbia) and the redemptive act of listening to a living victim, Tiffany, provide both indictment and hope. Moments of breathtaking forgiveness—like the courtroom encounter between the killer’s mother and a victim’s father—give the story a measure of humanity amid relentless tragedy.

Transcript

[Narrator]

You're in your apartment alone. Then you hear something. You think, was it just the storm? You realize you're not alone. Your living room is not safe with

[Rebecca Everett]

Unhinged, the new immersive game experience brought to you by Netflix.

[Narrator]

To make it out alive, you must answer the phone. The question is, when your phone rings, will you answer? Tap the banner to play Unhinged now only on Netflix.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

A quick warning. This podcast deals with violence and sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.

[Rebecca Everett]

Previously on Someone's hunting us.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Why do you have a handcuff on your arm? I got kidnapped and that they were going to meet up at Panera Bread. She told us that the person would be coming in the silver BMW. When the vehicle pulled up, it was a Khalil Willow Weaver. Hello?

[Rebecca Everett]

Hey, what's up?

[Narrator]

Nothing.

[Rebecca Everett]

Still doing my hair. Rich Isaacs didn't know exactly why he was sitting in a tiny, windowless interview room at the Essex County Prosecutor's office. He just knew his buddy, Khalil Wheeler Weaver needed a favorite. So Rich told the police they were together on the night of November 22, 2016.

[Narrator]

But I never knew what was going on, so I'm thinking it's not a big deal.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

He knew it was about a missing girl, something he learned days earlier when the Montclair police questioned him about her. But on Dec. 6, county detectives brought him to the giant courthouse complex in downtown Newark to this interview room on the fourth floor.

[Rebecca Everett]

Rich recited the lie again. That he'd seen Khalil get picked up and dropped off by a girl in a van, that there was another random guy in the van, too, just like Khalil told him to say.

[Narrator]

They were just asking, like, why are you lying for him? They're proving to me in my face that they know I was never with them. They have my GPS location for my phone.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

But Ridge sticks to his story, and the cops are just getting frustrated.

[Narrator]

You know, they end up leaving a room and a cop put his head back in. He said, listen, dude. Like, low whisper, like, stop. Just stop, because you're going to be

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

with him, like, you know, in prison for conspiracy.

[Rebecca Everett]

When the detectives came back, they tried something new. They put a photograph on the table.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

It was the body of a young woman. Rich couldn't keep the shock off his face. He finally realized he had been dragged into a homicide investigation.

[Rebecca Everett]

That's when he decided to come clean.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

If you would have known, you wouldn't have helped him.

[Narrator]

Fuck no. Hell no. I think that's probably why you didn't tell me.

[Rebecca Everett]

Later, the cops escorted Rich back through the warren of desks toward the elevator. He saw a familiar face being walked to another interview room. For a moment, they locked eyes.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Rich thought he knew Khalil Wheeler Weaver like a brother. He was wrong.

[Rebecca Everett]

I'm Rebecca Everett.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

And I'm Daisy Calavia Robertson. This is Someone's Hunting Us, a podcast by NJ.com and the Star Ledger about a serial killer you've never heard of and the women who took him down.

[Rebecca Everett]

It's December 6, 2016, two weeks after Sarah Butler disappeared on her Thanksgiving break, five days after they'd finally found her body.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Khalil Wheeler Weaver has already talked to the Montclair cops twice, but now he's at the prosecutor's office facing two experienced homicide detectives. It's a strategy game from the start.

[Rebecca Everett]

It's just after 7pm When Detective Christopher Smith shows Khalil to another tiny interview room. It's just three chairs around a table. Smith is a big guy, and there's barely room for Khalil to squeeze by him. Khalil is wearing a black long sleeve shirt, camo pants, and slides with socks. We have the entire video of this interrogation over three hours. You can see it all on our website.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

He fidgets alone in the room, but 15 minutes later, when two detectives enter.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Can you stand up for a second?

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

He stands and stretches his arms wide above his head like he was waking up from a nice nap. Like he was just waiting for this whole misunderstanding to be straightened out.

[Rebecca Everett]

They introduce themselves. Detective Smith and Detective Michael Kruzness, homicide investigators. Smith does most of the talking. He's authoritative and blunt, almost like he's dealing with a disobedient child.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

They read Khalil his rights so they can interview him, but he has to agree to talk.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Would you like to speak to us? Depends. It's a yes or no question. No. No.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Okay, so no interview. But they do have a warrant to get a DNA sample by swabbing his cheek.

[Rebecca Everett]

When that's done, Detective Smith tells him, rather matter of factly, you're being charged with murder and detained. Khalil's face is blank. He asks why he's being held like he can't process it, but Smith is already heading out the door.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

So you guys are placing me under arrest for murder? Yes. Yes, you're gonna be charged with murder.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Another officer arrives and cuffs Khalil's wrists behind his back, then walks him out of the room. But only a minute later, as Khalil is standing at the elevator door, he tells the cops he wants to Tell his side of the story.

[Rebecca Everett]

So they march him back to the interrogation room, take the cuffs off. The detectives want him to talk, to tangle himself up in lies. Starting with the day Sarah disappeared.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

She came to come pick me up. I conspired where I was and everything. She came to come pick me up. She was inside the.

[Rebecca Everett]

He says she stopped to buy weed and to pick up the mystery man with the tattoo.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

That's the guy Khalil made up so he could pretend he wasn't the last one seen with Sarah.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

She took me back. I was at. Okay, home. No, she took me back to him where she picked me up at.

[Rebecca Everett]

The detectives are letting him go on, leaning back in their chairs.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

But then Smith shifts forward, moving closer to him. He asks how Khalil communicated with Sarah.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

What app did you use? Oh, Tag. Yes. Okay.

[Rebecca Everett]

The killer's calm pretense is starting to slip. His right leg begins to bob up and down.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

About an hour after Khalil was first placed in the interrogation room, Smith drops the niceties.

[Rebecca Everett]

We know you and Richard weren't together that night.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

You sat here and you gave me details and made up horseshit about where you were and who you're with.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Almost instantly, Khalil admits he lied. He wants to stay one step ahead of them, but he won't say why.

[Rebecca Everett]

Smith slams his pointer finger on the table between them.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Okay, so I'm gonna. Again, my question is, why did Richard come in here and tell us that you guys are together? I don't know why Richard came in here and told you guys that. I told him to tell you guys.

[Rebecca Everett]

Now both of Kahlil's legs are wiggling back and forth under the table.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Smith starts interrupting him, badgering him. As the tension rises, the killer starts to stumble over his words.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Where did she pick you up? She picked me up. Down by the. Don't insult me. I'm not. Okay, don't insult because you're trying to Sit down by the rock. Around the corner from my house. Stop. Around the corner from my house. Where?

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Then the detective sets Khalil up with his next question about that night. He just wants to see how he'll react.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

How about I show you a picture of what you were wearing?

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Khalil blinks, speechless and stunned. The detective's message is clear. We know every move you made.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Okay, but that picture is taken 7 11. Did you go 7 11? When'd you go 7 11? Before. After you got the weed.

[Rebecca Everett]

Before they know he bought condoms there.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Okay, so you had sex with her. Okay, What'd you purchase there?

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

They're getting him to give up more and more, and Khalil is losing his cool.

[Rebecca Everett]

He drops another lie. He says, that mystery man with the tattoo, they picked him up in Newark.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Remember, I have your phone record. I was in the balance here when she was driving around. Yes.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Yet Khalil insists they pick this guy up, his fingers drawing an invisible map of the route they followed on the table.

[Rebecca Everett]

They don't believe him, but the detectives perk up when Khalil says where they went next. Eagle Rock. It's the park where Sarah was found dead.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

From there, we went up to Eagle Rock. Went to Eagle Rock. Yes. Okay. All three of you. Yes. Okay.

[Rebecca Everett]

Khalil's eyes are wide and eyebrows raised as he insists desperately, he describes in detail them both having sex with her, something that never happened.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

So the question is, how in Todd's name does sabotage end up exactly where you told me you went and had sex with her? How does her body end up. That, I don't know.

[Rebecca Everett]

Like I told you, Smith comes right back at him. We know she didn't drop you off because we know exactly what happened to that van.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

This video of him, this video of dropping the van off and walking away. We have video, and there's something that's missing from the video, and that's Saren.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

The surveillance footage does show a young man in all black walking away with a very characteristic gait.

[Rebecca Everett]

In the interview room, Khalil remains still from the waist up, his hands folded on the table. But underneath, his legs are bouncing in his camo sweatshirt.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Why did you bring the van down from Eagle Rock? I didn't drive the van. Don't shake your head. I didn't drive the van. Who did? I don't know. Like I said, she dropped. You sitting. Let me tell you something, young man. You sitting here looking at a freaking murder charge, okay? A murder charge.

[Rebecca Everett]

Smith tries to offer the young man a way to admit it, like maybe it was an accident.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Whatever. It was consensual and something went wrong because it happens. People have sex and they do they want to get choked or they want to just let me fix it when you get choked, or they want to do some crazy, stupid shit and it goes wrong, and all of a sudden somebody gets hurt and we're dead, and. And then. And then we got something going on here, and that's. You know what? That's. And that's not real. That's not murder. That's not murder. That's not what happened. I'm not into the Kinky stuff. But it's okay. I'm sorry.

[Rebecca Everett]

Khalil is shaking his head. He isn't taking the bait.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Smith has Khalil worked up. Now they're raising their voices and gesturing. Kahlil tries a new tactic. He says, okay, you caught me lying about Richard, but I came clean. I told you everything. He presses his palms to his chest to look innocent.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

No, y' all saying that you know she got murdered. Whoa. I'm not fine with that. That's not the kind of person I am. I definitely don't want my name being caught up in this. When Montclair came to my house, I was baffled. I'm like Montclair.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

He's not admitting anything, so the detectives leave him there alone.

[Rebecca Everett]

When they return, Smith shoves two large photographs across the table. It's the body of a half clothed woman hidden under leaves.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

It's Sarah, just the way Khalil left her. His handiwork exposed on the table in front of him.

[Rebecca Everett]

Khalil quickly looks away, then turns the photos over, pushes them away. He can't look at them.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Smith flips the photos back over and calmly places them in front of Khalil again.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Yo, he's alright.

[Rebecca Everett]

He looks away and stays silent.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

After a few moments, Kahlil turns the photos over again and shoves them back.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

You know what they are.

[Rebecca Everett]

Smith turns up the pressure. He holds out one photo, points to the gray sweatpants tied around Sarah's neck.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Khalil looks up at the ceiling.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Look. No, no, you don't see him now. You don't see his wet pants there. I'm not looking at that picture. Okay?

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

If this is an act to pretend he can't stand to see them, it's a pretty good one.

[Rebecca Everett]

Detectives watch him carefully because they're about to reveal they know he did this before they know there is another victim. This isn't just about Sarah Butler.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

And this is not the first time you've used Richard Isaacs as an alibi, is it?

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Watching this, I immediately knew they're referring to Robin West.

[Rebecca Everett]

When union police came asking about her back in September, he said he dropped her off at that abandoned warehouse and then went to work on cars with Richard.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

But this bombshell isn't sinking in yet for Khalil. He just looks confused.

[Rebecca Everett]

Then Smith slaps the table and says, one union. And you can see the realization roll over.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

KHALIL I spoke to union. Union? Yeah, union. Okay, I spoke to them. So I know all about that. It's amazing how close those stories are.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

It's Amazing how close those stories are.

[Rebecca Everett]

He must have known right then, right? They had him.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

They clearly know they're sitting with a serial killer.

[Rebecca Everett]

I wish we knew how they first connected him to Robin.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Yeah, I mean, we know the evidence was there, but we don't know how these homicide detectives discovered he'd been questioned about Robin.

[Rebecca Everett]

But in the interrogation, Smith makes it clear to Khalil. I know everything you told Union was bullshit.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Now, don't tell me, don't tell me. Let me guess. You went to high school with her. That's what you told Union.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Khalil, of course, denies everything about Robyn. But he also makes a big mistake. He reveals he knew Robin died in a fire weeks before that was public information. The detectives catch it immediately. Smith turns to Kruzness and mockingly totals up the lies.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

What are we after? 15 lives already? Come on, Khalil.

[Rebecca Everett]

That thump is Khalil putting his head down on his arms. But Smith just goes harder, slapping the table again.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Twice. Twice you're with females and they get dead shortly after you've seen with them.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

He's holding the photo of Sarah's body in Khalil's sightline again, forcing him to look.

[Rebecca Everett]

Kahlil keeps turning his head to the right, away from the image. Smith just thrusts the photo closer to him, taunting him with it.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Okay, you guys are either insinuating or you guys are saying that I murdered people. I have not.

[Rebecca Everett]

Khalil is flustered. There is no story, no new detail he can make up that is going to convince them.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

He's arguing now. He's dropped the nice guy act completely.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Why are you walking away from the van? I'm not walking away from the van.

[Rebecca Everett]

Finally, in a quiet moment, the investigators deliver one last blow.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

They know Khalil was in near constant contact, contact with Sarah, trying to meet up with her for days. But then it all just stopped.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

After November 22, how many times you call Sarah? No. No. Why? Because you knew she was dead, that's why.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Think about it. You've been talking to a girl. Now the cops say she's missing. Isn't your first move to text her, say, hey, you alright? The cops are looking for you, but

[Rebecca Everett]

not if you've killed her. Detective Smith knows he's won. He collects the photos, nods to Kruzness and they head for the door.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

After they leave, Khalil looks like he's stifling tears with both fists held to his mouth. He's mumbling to himself quietly.

[Rebecca Everett]

To me, it looks like he's forgotten he's in an interview room still being recorded.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

He thought he was this careful planner with his gloves and his kill kit.

[Rebecca Everett]

He was so overwhelmed by his thirst to kill that he hadn't thought about trying to text or call her phone after to cover his tracks.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

And now he makes another mistake. He admits it out loud while the cameras are still rolling. He says, I should have tried to call her. It's hard to make out, but here's that audio.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Did she try to call me?

[Rebecca Everett]

Except he didn't call her, and now he's on tape admitting he screwed up.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

It reminded me of Robert Durst talking to himself on a hot mic in the Jinx, saying he killed them all.

[Rebecca Everett]

Khalil had always believed in his ability to talk his way out of anything,

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

and now his own words will help convict him. In a decrepit carriage house a few miles away, the girl lies still. She remains undisturbed in the same spot he left her. It's April 2019, two and a half years after he killed her, there in the forgotten outbuilding behind a funeral home in the city of Orange. It's not a building you'd look at twice walking by on Main street, but go up the driveway past the funeral home and the large stone structure looms.

[Rebecca Everett]

So that has to be the carriage house.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Is it that one with the broken window?

[Rebecca Everett]

Because she was found on the second floor? It's two stories of pale stone with red brick accents over the windows and doors. The facade is crumbling, half hidden by vines. Grasses grow at the edge of the roof, rooted in decades of dirt in the gutters. A single dormer juts out, and one of the windows is broken, a dark and peering black eye.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

It's all mossy and green and broken. That top window couldn't be more creepy.

[Rebecca Everett]

It looks like a straight up haunted house.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

The funeral home workers use the first floor as a maintenance shed. Scattered in front are trash cans, pallets, shelves of half finished projects.

[Rebecca Everett]

No one ever goes up to the second floor, to the old apartment, abandoned long before the girl was dumped here.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Sunlight spills through the two northeastern windows at dawn. It inches across the room as the day brightens, a stark grid of light sweeping over her where she lies. But as the sun passes, darkness falls on her again like a shroud.

[Rebecca Everett]

Months pass. Seasons change. Decades old oaks stand sentry out front.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Inside the funeral home's polished parlor, an endless parade of mourners comes and goes, endless caskets to cry over, endless tissues offered.

[Rebecca Everett]

It's what the girl should have, a proper burial, a heartfelt Farewell. A chance for her friends and family to grieve. Not this.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Instead, Mawa Jumbia lies for more than two years in this dark, dirty room. Face down on the floor, the rope still wrapped around her neck.

[Rebecca Everett]

The red haired weave that fit her so well in life, bright and feisty, unmistakable, has faded to a dull rust color. A carpet of dust covers her. A blanket for the sleeping skeleton girl.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

The sight of her must have stopped the funeral home worker in his tracks. It happened on the 913th day. He climbed the old forgotten stairs to the apartment.

[Rebecca Everett]

It was April 9, 2019. Two and a half years too late to save Mawa. But at least someone had finally found the missing girl.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Except no one knew she was the missing girl.

[Rebecca Everett]

The worker retreated from the scene and made the call. Police arrived, took photos, zipped what was left of the girl into a body bag.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

They had no idea who she was.

[Rebecca Everett]

Around this time, in Newark, Janesha awoke from a dream.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

2019.

[Rebecca Everett]

I just dreamt of her. I don't remember what it was, but I do know that I dreamt of her. The face of her best friend, Mawa slipped away as the dream faded. Janesha was in her small bed in a rooming house, her home since getting kicked out of her mom's house the summer before.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

She'd made it through her senior year like that, then graduated and worked together to support herself. But Mawa was always there, always on her mind.

[Rebecca Everett]

My mother, she didn't come to my graduation. The people that came to my graduation was my friends.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

And I knew Mawa would have been there.

[Rebecca Everett]

They'd always talked about how they'd get their own place together once they graduated. But instead, Janisha was here in this room, on her own.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

That night, though, when she awoke from the dream about Marwa, she felt a little less alone.

[Rebecca Everett]

And I felt her presence and it was like, I'm okay. That's how it felt. And that's why I felt I still had hope.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Like, okay, yeah.

[Rebecca Everett]

Everyone was trying to hold onto that hope as the investigation went dormant. Kiki, who'd graduated a year earlier. Deanna, who had finally aged out of foster care and was starting to build her own life.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Even Mawa's own mother, the parent Mawa had longed for across thousands of miles. And ever since, they were separated.

[Rebecca Everett]

In a cruel twist, only a year after Mawa disappeared, her mother's visa came through and she was finally able to move to Newark. She arrived at the airport and reunited with the rest of her family, but not with Mawa.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

The family opened a hair braiding shop and named it after her, a tribute to the girl they hoped would walk through the doors one day, never knowing she was lying in a dusty carriage house close by but already long gone.

[Rebecca Everett]

In the rooming house that night, Janesha felt Mawa's presence. But across the city, authorities didn't know who they had in the county morgue.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Once again, they had failed. Mawa.

[Rebecca Everett]

There's a process designed to prevent this from happening, right?

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

The medical examiner inspects the remains, assigns a cause and manner of death.

[Rebecca Everett]

In this case, a black female of unknown age and homicide by ligature strangulation.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

And then they collect DNA from the body.

[Rebecca Everett]

A decade earlier, the state started requiring law enforcement to collect DNA in missing persons cases older than 30 days, like a hair from a hairbrush.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Then, if a body is found even across the country years later, authorities can get DNA from the remains and plug it into the database to see if there's a match.

[Rebecca Everett]

When the body known as Orange Jane Doe was examined, they checked her DNA against the database, but nothing came up. In the two and a half years since she was missing, no one in law enforcement had collected the required DNA, DNA and entered it into the system.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Yet again, Mawa was the throwaway, the case file relegated to some dusty filing cabinet.

[Rebecca Everett]

And so she would remain the sleeping skeleton girl. Orange Jane Doe, a girl in limbo. At zocdoc, we know being a healthy adult is like living in a video game. Every day has side quests, taxes, laundry, birthdays. And just when you're leveling up, you have to book a doctor. The insurance portal crashes, they put you on hold. Your doctor doesn't take your plan. Game over. We see you. So we made booking a doctor easy. Download Sockdoc search by specialty, insurance and availability. Book instantly. No cheat codes required. Find a doctor you love with Sockdoc.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

On December 7th, thousands of people had their daytime TV watching, interrupted by a live report on News 12.

[Jess Mazzola]

Right now, we want to take you

[Rebecca Everett]

out to Essex county to the press

[Detective Christopher Smith]

conference there regarding Sarah Butler. Let's see what's happening there.

[Rebecca Everett]

Essex county prosecutor Carolyn Murray was standing at a podium backed by nearly a dozen law enforcement officials. She was announcing an update in the Sarah Butler case.

[Jess Mazzola]

And tragically, her body was discovered December 1st and her death ruled a homicide.

[Rebecca Everett]

We're here this afternoon to announce that

[Jess Mazzola]

that Khalil wheeler Weaver, age 20, of East Orange, has been arrested.

[Rebecca Everett]

He has been charged with first degree murder. I've watched this press conference a number of times. I remember when it happened back in 2016, the prosecutor isn't letting on that this young man is potentially a serial killer.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

There's no hint that they're already building two other homicide cases against him for the murders of Robin west and Joanne Brown.

[Rebecca Everett]

Because the night before, back in that interrogation room, Khalil sat alone after his hours long grilling about Sarah. Then two new investigators entered.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

They wanted to talk to him about another unidentified woman.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

Wait, you said unidentified female.

[Rebecca Everett]

Because a day earlier, contractors had stumbled on a body in the abandoned mansion near Kahlil's house.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

It was Joanne Brown, the 33 year old in supportive housing, working on her addiction issues. Remember, she was pregnant when Khalil murdered her and left her there and then called her friend to breathe into the phone.

[Rebecca Everett]

Once there was a body, her case finally had the attention of investigators. They immediately contacted her friends. They'd had the phone number of the guy who probably took Joanne this whole

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

time in the interrogation room, Khalil didn't even try to lie his way out of it. He refused to talk to the new investigators about her.

[Rebecca Everett]

But before they even rose from their chairs, he started crying. Trying to stifle quiet sobs with the back of his right hand,

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

He laid his head down on the table. There was no way out.

[Rebecca Everett]

But at the press conference, no one mentioned Robin or Joanne. And none of the law enforcement officers standing behind that podium knew there was a living victim. They'd never heard Tiffany's name. They didn't know this defendant had been reported for rape in a neighboring county.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

A week after his interrogation and arrest, Khalil is finally led into a Newark courtroom. Wearing handcuffs and an untucked blue dress

[Rebecca Everett]

shirt, he is silent and expressionless as he stands next to his attorney, who enters not guilty pleas.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

As the cameras flash, the hearing ends, the crowd slowly files out of the courtroom. But one woman remains. She has dreads scabbed over wounds on her ears and a few missing teeth. She stands and walks to the front of the courtroom where the assistant prosecutor is.

[Rebecca Everett]

Then Tiffany starts talking, telling the officers that she was raped by this killer. And something different happens. Something that hasn't happened before.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

They listen.

[Rebecca Everett]

They realize something that Elizabeth police did not. That she's telling the truth. That she has crucial information about the killer. Tiffany is going to be their star witness.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Can you imagine what this must have been like for her? You've been attacked and nearly killed, and then three weeks later, you see his face on the news or in a post on Facebook for murder. And even after all that, she still showed up and faced her attacker again in court.

[Rebecca Everett]

I only recently realized she's in our photos from court that day. From our news coverage, she's sitting behind Sarah Butler's family, wiping away tears as Sarah's mother rocks and cries in front of her.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

A week later, Khalil faced new charges for killing Joanne Brown.

[Rebecca Everett]

It took another few months for the medical examiner to change Robin West's cause of death from undetermined to homicide by strangulation. The ME Noted a tiny broken neck bone on Robin's autopsy report.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

In March 2017, Khalil was arraigned for killing Robyn and for attacking Tiffany.

[Rebecca Everett]

Many people were trying to come to terms with this. Victims families, but also people who knew Khalil, girls he'd dated, people he worked with, and his closest friends.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

One of the first people to find out Khalil was a killer was his co worker, Scott. The guy who worked security at shoprite with him and noticed the beheaded bees.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

I was shocked. Like, what? That shot the shit out of me, man.

[Rebecca Everett]

County detectives asked Scott to come in, answer some questions. He didn't know why they were asking, but they wanted to know why he had called Khalil at midnight on November 22.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Because according to Khalil's cell phone records, that was when he was in Eagle Rock Reservation. Scott was talking to Khalil about some money he owed him. While Khalil might have been killing Sarah or disposing of her body.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

He told me, I called him at 12 o'. Clock. I said, yeah, he owed me $100, and I wanted to make sure he was going to have my money. And he was like, yeah, I have it tomorrow. So that was the reason I called him at 12 o', clock, to make sure that I was getting my cash back and not knowing that he was committing a murder at that time.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Okay, but what about Khalil's closest friends? We know Ron Brown didn't believe it at all.

[Rebecca Everett]

And Rich Isaacs also couldn't believe it. He said one of the investigators tried to convince him, your friend is a dangerous killer.

[Narrator]

He'd never seen somebody like that before. He's like, the guy's living like a fucking double life. He said he's a normal kid. It's like it's the same person, a switch. He's somebody else.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Rich is actually the first to admit, even today, he just can't look at this objectively.

[Narrator]

If I probably use my brain and be like, yeah, this guy's gay. And like I said, even to this day, I really. I know I'm in denial, you know, I don't want to accept the fact that Khalil did what he said he did.

[Rebecca Everett]

It felt like he couldn't say it out loud. What Khalil did. Murder, rape, kidnapping. He thinks Khalil may be guilty of something, but not all of it.

[Narrator]

Body at the body. I said, maybe they just start dumping bodies on this guy. Maybe, they said. The MO Was the same charge. Collab was the case closed.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

We actually heard this a few times. People wondering if he actually did all these crimes. In a way, it speaks to how much some people of color distrust law enforcement. And we know many times we have a good reason to.

[Rebecca Everett]

Or it's just that hard to believe a guy you knew could do this.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

But for the families of the victims, they saw Khalil's blank face in court. They learned what he'd done to their daughters, and had to put up with some newspapers referring to them as hookers. Like, what happened to them was their fault.

[Rebecca Everett]

Bernisha Patterson didn't even know any of this was happening. After she reported Robyn missing at the Union Motel. The detective never contacted her, not even when Robin's body was identified.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

She found out Robyn was dead when she saw an article while scrolling on Facebook. She was with a friend, and they were walking to his car, and I

[Detective Christopher Smith]

just fell when he came and picked me up, and I showed him that I couldn't. Like, my knees, my legs, I couldn't feel anything.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

But when county detectives started looking into Khalil as a suspect in Robin's case, Bernisha was one of their first calls. Now, they. They needed her, and they told her, you'll have to testify at trial.

[Rebecca Everett]

She was scared to face him in court, but she wanted to do it for Robyn. To tell the world who her best friend really was and to make sure

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

this man could never hurt another girl.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

I feel bad for all the girls that he hurt, because I know they all have family who probably feel the same way that I do right now. Like, I literally think about her every day. And it's the fact that my daughter will never get to meet her. She will never get to meet my daughter. Like, it still hurts. Like it happened yesterday.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

But her time to testify wouldn't come for nearly three years.

[Rebecca Everett]

In the meantime, there were new faces in court for each hearing. The loved ones of each new victim. They'd meet each other in the courtroom or in the halls. Really different people who were only connected by their pain and grief.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

And there was another family there in the courtroom, the family of Khalil Wheeler Weaver.

[Jess Mazzola]

There are cases, there are moments that just stay with you. I still remember the weight of just the air in the room.

[Rebecca Everett]

This is Jess Mazzola. She's an [e-mail] now. But in 2016, she reported on some of the early hearings in this case. Sometimes in court, things boil over between the victim's family on one side and the defendants on the other. But Jess said these hearings were quiet, almost eerily so.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

There's one court date that will stay with her forever because of what she witnessed after the hearing was over.

[Jess Mazzola]

But I remember getting in an elevator, and I think I was the last one in, and I ran in, and it was very quiet. And I looked over to the back of the elevator, and standing on one side was Khalil Wheeler Weaver's mother, and standing on the other side was Sarah Butler's father. Like, I can't imagine how they felt. It was silent for a little bit. And I, you know, like, how long could this elevator ride have been? Not very long. But in my memory, it is. You know, we were in there for two hours.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

She heard a sound. It was Khalil's mom crying. Then Sarah Butler's father turned to her, the mother of the man who killed his daughter.

[Jess Mazzola]

And I remember him sort of reaching over and either patting her on the back or just making sort of a, you know, a subtle gesture. And he told her that. He just said, it's okay a few times. I mean, I was like, I had tears in my eyes then. I'm sort of wanting to cry about it now. Like, it was just so. He just showed so much grace and forgiveness immediately. They just had this sort of understanding and this camaraderie as parents who had both lost kids almost, but on in the complete opposite ways.

[Rebecca Everett]

When the elevator stopped on the first floor, they poured out onto the plaza. Khalil's mother and Sarah's dad embraced quickly before going their separate ways.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Jess walked up to Victor Butler and hardly knew what to say to him. But he said something to her. We can't change what happened. It doesn't help to hold on to anger and hatred.

[Jess Mazzola]

Said it at. In the moment, confronted with the mother of his daughter's killer. Like, it's cr. It was just unbelievable.

[Rebecca Everett]

But it also makes me wonder, like, I don't think she was crying because she thought her son was innocent. You know what I mean? Like, no.

[Jess Mazzola]

No, I don't think so.

[Rebecca Everett]

The families endured three more years of hearings before jury selection began in the trial of Khalil Wheeler Weaver, all eyes were on the courthouse to see if the families would get justice. Or if a dangerous predator might walk

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

free in the same city. Mawa Dumbia's mom braided hair. Mawa's friends worked to get their first apartments. They went about their lives making do with the mystery of her disappearance hanging over them.

[Rebecca Everett]

They didn't know this trial and downtown Newark had anything to do with them. They still didn't even know her remains had been found.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

A killer is about to go on trial. But when will Orange Jane Doe get her justice? Or even a name Coming up on Someone's Hunting us.

[Rebecca Everett]

I'm over 100% sure it was him. He told me who he was. I always had hope that, yeah, she's

[Jess Mazzola]

still alive

[Rebecca Everett]

for nothing.

[Detective Christopher Smith]

For why? For why? He messaged me over the weekend. He like emailed me through JPAY and said a Leo yeah,

[Rebecca Everett]

Someone's Hunting Us is a production of NJ Advance Media.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

The podcast is reported and produced by Me, Daisy, Calavia Roberts, and Rebecca Everett. Our executive producers are Christopher Kelly, Jessica Beam, Jeff Roberts, and Jess Mazzola.

[Rebecca Everett]

This podcast is recorded and mixed by Alex Graves at Sound on Sound Studios in Montclair, New Jersey. Our composer is Blake Maples. James Shapiro is our Associate Audio Engineer. Our website is designed by Alaa Saleem.

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Special thanks to each and every person who shared their story with us.

[Rebecca Everett]

If you want to see photos, videos, timelines and other extras from this story, check out our website someoneshuntingus.com you can contact us at inboxomeoneshuntingus.com follow someone's hunting

[Daisy Calavia Robertson]

Us and if you're enjoying it, please rate and review it. Word of mouth is huge, so please help spread the word.