Podcast Summary: Something About Cari

Episode: "Something… About Liz"

Host: Keith Morrison (NBC News)

Date: December 18, 2025

Overview of the Episode

This episode, narrated by Keith Morrison, investigates the intricate and dark history behind Liz Goliar—the woman convicted of murdering single mom Cari Farver—unveiling her past and her connections to another tragic case decades earlier. The story delves into legal battles surrounding Cari’s murder, Liz’s manipulative behaviors, and disturbing questions about an earlier infant death for which her then-boyfriend was convicted. Through interviews with those closest to both cases, legal experts, and true crime author Leslie Rule, the episode explores themes of justice, manipulation, and the lingering effects of wrongful convictions.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Liz Goliar’s Trial for the Murder of Cari Farver

• Defense Tactics:

  • Liz was defended by famed attorney James Martin Davis, who chose a bench trial over a jury, recognizing the emotional weight a jury might carry against Liz.
  • Davis’s core argument revolved around insufficient direct evidence, emphasizing there was no body and no cause of death (03:24):

    "You may have smart cards and you may have phones, but you don't have a body and you don't have a cause of death from a medical examiner. What we have is their belief, their speculation, their notion that this is what happens, that can't convict." (James Martin Davis, 03:24)

  • He cross-examined witnesses (Carrie's family and friends) to highlight gaps in first-hand knowledge and direct evidence.

• The Verdict:

  • Despite a lack of physical body, the judge found Liz guilty of first-degree murder and arson, citing overwhelming circumstantial and digital evidence (06:18):

    “Carrie Farver did not voluntarily disappear and drop off the face of the earth... she was murdered. The court finds beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally killed Carrie Farver...” (Judge, 06:18)

  • Emotional moments for Carrie's family as justice was served.

2. Liz’s Past: The Baby Cody Case

• True Crime Author Leslie Rule’s Investigation

  • Leslie Rule, while researching for her book A Tangled Web, uncovers Liz's connection to a 1990s shaken baby case in Michigan, where Liz’s infant son Cody died, and her then-boyfriend Glenn Hur was convicted.

• Details of the Incident

  • Baby Cody suffered catastrophic head trauma, with both shaken baby syndrome and other diagnoses considered.
  • Glenn’s confession emerged during a police interview—later questioned by experts for reliability due to his cognitive disabilities and the interrogation's leading nature (37:41):

    “My first thought was, this could very easily be a false confession.” (Stephen Drizen, Law Professor, 37:41)

• Doubts About the Conviction

  • Drizen (false confession expert) details how such confessions are often coerced, especially in shaken baby cases.
  • Forensic handwriting analysis cast serious doubt on whether Glenn even wrote the letters that were key evidence against him, suggesting Liz may have written them herself (41:09):

    “My opinion in this case, I'm completely confident that Glenn did not write those documents in question.” (Handwriting expert Wendy Carlson via Leslie Rule, 41:09)

  • Dr. Ashley Saucier (pediatric physician) explains shifting medical views, introducing alternative causes for Cody’s death, such as falls or medical conditions (36:11).

• Enduring Impact

  • Glenn served nearly nine years for Cody’s death, now struggling with the aftermath of a felony conviction, as new questions arise about his actual guilt and Liz’s manipulations.

3. The Theme of Manipulation and Deceit

• Throughout both cases, Liz’s pattern emerges: manipulating evidence, impersonating others, and possibly framing the innocent. As Leslie Rule puts it (13:29):

  “Liz Goliar is a sadistic sociopath. She doesn't care about anybody's feelings but her own. She's violent. She manages to manipulate everybody around her.”

• Leslie Rule draws parallels with her mother, Ann Rule’s, work on sociopaths like Ted Bundy, describing the deceptive “mask” such individuals wear (14:36):

  “My mom thought that she could spot a sociopath. She soon learned that she couldn't and that nobody can...” (Leslie Rule, 14:36)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Power of Manipulation:

  “That mask, Leslie thought, is what allowed Liz to get away with murder for years.” (14:54, Keith Morrison)

• On the Relief of a Verdict:

  “She’d finally heard the longed for words...” (07:34, Keith Morrison)
  “It was just a total relief to me.” (Leslie Rule, 07:48)

• On Lasting Trauma:

  "It’ll never go away, but at least we can deal with it now. Have to deal with it.” (Leslie Rule, 08:43)

• On Sociopathy:

  “Their mask is so perfect that if they don't want you to see who they really are, you won't see it unless they lift the corner of the mask.” (Leslie Rule, 14:36)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:00 | Introduction to Liz Goliar’s trial and defense strategy | | 03:24 | James Martin Davis, defense arguments; focus on lack of body and direct evidence | | 06:18 | Judge delivers verdict—Liz found guilty of murder and arson | | 12:47 | Introduction of Leslie Rule, her research, and the shift to the Cody case | | 15:12 | Leslie Rule’s intuition that there’s more to Liz’s past | | 16:32 | Glenn Hur’s background and relationship with Liz | | 19:31 | Day of Cody’s death—events leading up to the incident | | 22:01 | Medical findings: shaken baby diagnosis | | 29:33 | Glenn’s second-degree murder trial; questions over evidence and Glenn’s cognitive ability | | 33:18 | Glenn’s guilty plea and subsequent prison sentence | | 35:57 | Dr. Saucier explains evolution in pediatric head trauma diagnosis | | 37:41 | Law professor Stephen Drizen details “false confession script” used by police | | 41:09 | Handwriting expert Wendy Carlson questions authenticity of letters used against Glenn | | 44:36 | Remembering Cari Farver—a good woman, loving mother, and software engineer |

Final Reflections

The episode deftly connects Liz Goliar’s manipulative arc—from dodging blame for her infant’s death to orchestrating a lethal campaign against Cari Farver—illustrating how deceptive personas can evade justice for years. Doubts swirl around the earlier conviction of Glenn Hur, with changing medical standards and evidence potentially manufactured by Liz herself. While justice was eventually served for Cari’s murder, the unresolved questions about Cody’s death and the ripple effects of Liz’s lies continue to haunt all involved.

For anyone new to the story, this episode is a deep dive into the tragic impact of sociopathic manipulation, miscarriages of justice, and the pursuit of truth both in the courtroom and in the hearts of victims' families.