← Something About the Beatles
Something About the Beatles
299: Ringo's Beats and Threads with Gary Astridge
01:31:30
with Gary Astridge
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- [00:03]
A
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- [01:01]
B
This episode is brought to you by Companion. Iris and Josh seem like the perfect match, but when a weekend getaway turns into a nightmare, Iris realizes that things aren't as perfect as they appear. From the creators of Barbarian and the studio that brought you the Notebook comes a twisted tale of modern romance and the sweet satisfaction of revenge. Companion now playing only in theaters. Rated R under 17. Not admitted without Parent Leave them drums alone. Oh, surely I could just have a little touch. You so much as breathe heavy on them and I'm out on strike. Aren't you being rather arbitrary? There you go, hiding behind a smoke screen of bourgeois cliches. I don't go messing about with your earphones, do I spoil sport? Well, he's very fussy about his drums, you know, the loom large in his legend. And he just kept saying, I can't believe they did this for me. Why would they do this for me? And Scotty says, because they love you. Everybody loves you.
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A
Hello and welcome to episode 299 of Something about the Beatles podcast. That puts us one away from 300, doesn't it? Your input. I'm not even gonna have a cutoff at this point because all cutoffs are cast aside given the month of January that I had. But anyway, it would be great for anybody that has heard this and has thought about I don't know what I want to say, but if you're a fan of the show, if you're a longtime listener and you've got any moments you can recall that were favorites that I should put into a best of show or any thoughts on where the show should go, anything like that, any input, I just want to hear from you and you can send me a little voice recording to satb2010mail.com and that's where you should go if you want to be in a newsletter anyway, and I would recommend that you do be on the newsletter because that's where you find out all the stuff there is to know. Because I'm kind of backing off the socials for now because it's just labor intensive and I'd rather craft a newsletter to interested people anyway. So that is part of the reason I do what I do. A lot of stuff gets disseminated. To put it one way. Before we start the show, I did want to mention the Magical Mystery Camp coming to Upstate New York. Big Indian it's called in the Catskills on a Lake. Put together with Jack Petrocelli, Walter Everett and Cameron Greider of the RPM School. I will be there as a guest along with Jerry Hammock along with Peter Asher, Joan Osborne, Steve Forbert. It's going to be four days, Tuesday, June 24 through Friday, June 27 of non stop musical activity and interactive stuff presentations. Anything you can name Beatle themed, music themed. It's going to be a great, great experience and sort of semi vacation if you can work it out that way because it is a campground. Everything from places to pitch a tent, to share a room, to rent a cabin. You can check it all out at magical mystery camp.com go to magical mysterycamp.com something and you can book yourself a ticket before it gets sold out. The fab foe will be playing Jack's Band as well. You needn't be doing Beetle stuff non stop. You can hang out with the guests there, you can swim, you can hike. It's a beautiful locale at a beautiful place at beautiful time of year. So I do recommend you check it out. Magical Mystery Camp Anyway, this show long time coming my friend Gary Astridge. You may know him from the fest for Beetle fans or other Beatle events going around that he's been a guest at. He does public talks. You could check out his stuff@ringlesbeatlekits.com that's his website. Well, he'll mention it in the show, but that was how Ringo in fact found him. Or Ringo's people did back when the Grammy Museum in LA was doing an exhibit on Ringo's drum kits and they needed a hero to sweep in to save the day. That man was Gary Astrid, good friend. I've had the privilege of knowing him for a good number of years now. I was thrilled to have him back to the show. He did an appearance very early on a while back in the previous iteration, but this is the first full blown conversation we've really had with Gary a sole guest and in fact since the publication of the book that he co wrote with Ringo called Beats and drumming legend and fashion icon Ringo Starr. Now that may sound like a weird juxtaposition, but what this is is a beautiful deluxe coffee table book published through Julian's Auctions out in California. Julian's is the auction house, you may recall, that had hosted Ringo's auction, I want to say around 2015 is when they had this, which included drum kits and other paraphernalia that he had saved that he was divesting himself of. They also were the ones that recently sold a guitar belonging to George from the early days, as well as long lost framus acoustic 12 string that you see in Help. So they've got a bit of a Beatle niche going on, but they also have dealt with other stuff, including Jimi Hendrix. I think they've got an upcoming auction, Bob Dylan, lots of rock and roll stuff. Lots of other things you would expect to find through an auction house. They've got the goods. But this book beats and threads Gary's world of Ringo's drum kits. So there's plenty of information there on Ringo's iconic kits as well as his iconic clothes. Things that you see him photographed with throughout the 60s with the Beatles, obvious things like the pepper suit, but other things, touring suits, hard days, night suits. Lots of things from promo films pop up, including hey Jude as well as the Abbey Road album cover jacket. The articles of clothing are juxtaposed with the drum stuff along with other ephemera including itineraries from Brian Epstein starting the day after Ringo officially joined the Beatles. All kinds of cool stuff in there to immerse yourself in. If you like Beatle history and Ringo, who said he would never do a memoir, this might be the closest we get to it. Gary is a guy who is big in size and big in heart and one of the people I'm very privileged to know. It was a delight to sit down and talk with him. He sees himself as not only serving Ringo in the capacity that he does, but also us, the fans, because he's one of us and he is the seat at the table so he gets to share his experiences with us as a fan himself. This is coming off the big week with Ringo in Nashville for the launch of the look up album, which went to number one in the country charts straight out of the box. So it's a great time to get into all things Ringo with Gary Astridge. We'll talk about the book, but first I wanted to get out of you for the sake of the listeners that it would seem to be from the outside an amazing dream come true that you were this guy who was a music fan, a drummer, a Beatles fan. Did you see the Ed Sullivan Show? Were you of age to watch that?
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B
I was one of those kids, yeah, that was me. That was the change of life moment.
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A
Describe that. Were you already playing drums or did that inspire you?
- [08:43]
B
It inspired me. And the interesting thing was I knew nothing about the Beatles. I knew nothing about anything with music at all. And it landed up that on that evening, my family on my father's side, who are all English and Welsh, we all got together, you know, aunts, uncles, my cousins, to celebrate my grandmother's birthday. And I just remember getting there and meet the Beatles was just constantly being played the album. And years and years later, a cousin who was there, it was actually her home. And my aunt and uncle, she said, gary, I've got the whole movies of grandma's birthday when the Beatles came on. And I'm going like. And she goes, I'm going to send it to you. So she sent me the digital form. And in my head I'm thinking, oh my God, it's going to be us watching the Ed Sullivan Show. But it wasn't. It was us as little kids, a lot of us dancing in the living room to the Beatles album. But when I saw it, I'm going, wow, that's what I look like. You know, I kind of remembered the house and stuff, but we were all dancing and then somebody yelled out, it's almost 8:00 or whatever. And then we all went into like this family room and my uncle, who owned like an appliance store in a brand new color Zenith TV with the control to switch channels, you know, so Space Command. Yeah. So I'm in the room looking at everybody and I just remember going like. Because they were. Nobody was acting normal. They're all watching tv, they're all laughing, and then they're doing the lines of, oh my God, they're wearing wigs, you know, And I'm just thinking, I never saw them act like that. And then I just focused on the television and boom, life change.
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A
Wow. Yeah, that's absolutely incredible. Was this whole movie footage, did it have sound?
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B
No sound.
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A
So you can dub in Meet the Beatles and you'll get the idea.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So then how long did it take you after that evening to become a Beatle fan? Did you start acquiring the records? Did you immediately want to be a musician yourself?
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B
My parents Said the next day they said I wouldn't stop tapping on things. So my father took two Maxwell House coffee cans and they were empty. And he cut the bottom and top, you know, the top was off and put the plastic lid back on and he put tape around it. They were bongos really, but I'm using them as drums. And then he took a pair of my mother's wooden spatulas and he cut the spoon end off and he gave them to me. So I had my drumsticks. So it was that and then getting a little tin drum set, right? And then it was the Plastic Mastro I believe was the name of it. You know, like Ringo snare drum, you know, red sparkle and gold trim. It was just that. And then I, at one point I got a. Parents bought me a drum set. And it was a set of E.W. kent drums that were made locally here in Buffalo. So that was my first drum set. It was like a five piece kit and I wanted the Oyster Black Pearl. I went to the drum factory and all I had was the Black Diamond. So I. It was like, well, it's the closest I'm gonna get. I'll take that. And it wasn't until had a job and I'm playing and I was like, why don't I have a Ringo kit? And it was all pre Internet. And that's when I just started doing research and I thought I found the right one, you know, it was a music store in Pittsburgh and the guy says, yeah, it's Black Oyster Pearl, just like Ringo's. Yes. So I bought it. And then when it comes to the house and I open it, it's the newer bowling ball and I'm going like, this isn't it. So I had to sell that and then do more research. But the research was just for me. Whatever information I could get from the local music stores, which wasn't much, or just getting the fan magazines and looking at pictures or clipping them out of a newspaper or just staring at the album covers and trying to figure it out. But it was so in depth. I remember my grandfather lived with us and he sees me staring at all these pictures and he comes in and he gives me a magnifying glass. Even though I didn't know what I was looking at, I was picking up like, oh my God, the lugs were smaller or bigger. And then I started figuring out these are not all the same. It's the same look, but they're different sized drums. So it was very naive and amateurish, but that was just like A hobby and a passion and it just carried through my whole life. It's just something I enjoy to do, just like somebody building model cars or whatever. But that was my little world. That was my escape.
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A
Wow, what an amazing and unique niche you found for yourself. And especially given the challenge in this pre Internet world. I mean, most of the people listening show can't even conceive of that because they were born in a time. Computers were always there. Internet was always there. Oh, yeah, and you're in New York, Ludwig's in Chicago. If you'd been where I was living, probably would have been a lot easier for you just to go down to the factory and get whatever information you could.
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B
I know that would have been an easy one. And you know what else is interesting? I forgot to mention what I had, like the. I'll just call them bongos to make it easy. But when I had those makeshift items, my mother, like years later, I stopped over at her house and then she has like a folder, manila folder on her coffee table and she goes, got something for you. I go, what is it? She goes, open it up. I open it up and it's just like a loose leaf sheet of paper and it has like yellow tape around the edges and it just has like black and gray crayon just going back and forth down the page. And I'm going like, so what is this? She goes, you don't remember? I go, I have no idea what this is. And she says, that was part of your drum set. You take those until your coffee. Can. I go? Seriously? I never would have remembered that. So that's how geeky I was way, way back then.
- [14:55]
A
And you would have been at that time in single digit age, I would imagine.
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B
It started out, I was seven when I saw him on the Sullivan Show.
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A
So by the time you're actually researching and trying to acquire a Ludwig kit, you were in your teens?
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B
No, actually I was in my 20s.
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A
Oh, okay, so you were an adult.
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B
It wasn't like a constant hobby, you know, like life gets in the way. But it was just something I would always revert back to.
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A
Yeah. As opportunity presents.
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B
And then another thing that happened too, when it gave him tons of credit was Andy Babyuk. You know, when he Beatles gear. I got it and I'm looking at it, all I kept thinking was with all the information and notes I would take, I'm going, I was right. I was right. He had more than one kid. And then that fired me up to go back, pull all the stuff out that I had, and Then it was like, okay, put on the diamond suit and going back in.
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A
So that book was published before you had that information?
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B
I had information, but his book instilled me to go back to see how close I was with the information I had. And then it just fired me back up to start doing more research and then to start buying again.
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A
You were so renowned for possessing in your walking around head every bit of minutiae about the kits Ringgo played. I would have just taken it for granted. You were a consultant on that book, but you're saying you had acquired that knowledge. Then he came along independently, confirmed a lot of what you'd already found out anyway. So it just validated it all. That's just amazing. That is absolutely amazing. When did you first get into a.
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B
Band, garage bands, you know, is what, maybe 14 years old? Because I was kind of like a recluse, you know, like I would play. I would play songs over and over and over in the house, you know, on the drums. But then if somebody came in, I would stop and it's like, duh, we could hear you outside. It was very, very shy. So I'm assuming, you know how it is. It could be with garage bands, you know, they got the lead guitarist, where he's always turned his guitar up and it's never loud enough and neighbors are complaining. And so there was never anything steady, but it was always a lot of fun. I just loved every minute of it.
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A
So it sounds like you were accustomed to practicing on your own when you were developing your chops as a drummer.
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B
Yeah, pretty much. And it was just catching whatever you could, like if you saw a drummer on television. And once again, at that time, it's not like you could say, hey, I'm going to record this and I'll just watch it over and over. You had to catch it when you could. So it was the same thing for Ringo. Those are the big moments. It was like, oh my God, here he is, you know, watching how he's playing. And then, you know, when he's done running down in my parents basement, getting behind the kitten, starting to play.
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A
It's interesting because when I started drumming, I started like you improvising with a. I actually had a real pair of drumsticks that somebody gave me. But it was beating on whatever was at hand. And my mother ended up. She found out there was a kid up the street who had a slinger on set. And I wasn't like a Ringo Purist or anything. I'll take whatever I can get. And they were fine they suited me perfectly, but I didn't really know how to play. I had to figure it out. But when I did, initially, before you've got other people to play with. I remember putting on the headphones and a boombox with a cassette tape in it, trying to drum along. I found it very, very unsatisfying. And it was like, I've read Ringo say that he practiced by playing with other people. That was ultimately what happened. It's like anybody I knew that had an instrument, this is the way to learn it. It's like, I can't do it by myself because I'll last three minutes. I get bored and I don't want to do it again. But when you're making music with people, it's a lot easier to develop that skill set because you're learning to listen, you're learning to cue off each other. And that was useful for me. To the extent that I developed any capability in drums, it was from playing with other people.
- [18:53]
B
And it was the same for me. And I have to tie Ringo in with this. And it's funny, it's different when you get something from him firsthand. But when he was talking about his childhood and playing at home and in. And oh, by the way, I had the opportunity where the current owner of his home on Admiral Grove invited me in. And the house is under renovation, so all the floors were ripped up and everything. So you could see the actual flooring and cement down on the first floor.
- [19:24]
A
Are they turning it into a destination like with John and Paul's houses?
- [19:28]
B
Yeah, Airbnb, really. But seeing how tiny it is. Having her explain, okay, this kitchen wasn't here, it was here. There was no bathroom that was out, you know, so you realized how small it was. And when he went up to his bedroom, to me it's not normal, but for English, I guess it is. The stairway going up was narrow and really pitched. It's like, oh my God, this is almost like a ladder. But his bedroom was very tiny. And then you just think, okay, there's nothing in here. It looks bigger than you would think. But you start putting in a bed and even like a dresser. It's like, where would you even put like a drum kit? I mean, there's no room. With that being said, when he tells the story of just saying, I started out with a bass drum. It was only one sided. I would just put it on the ground and just hit it. And he said that if they had parties, just all the neighbors getting together on a weekend, getting hammered, I guess, and Singing songs. He would play that for a little while in the house, in the corner of his living room. And it would be, okay, that's enough. And then when he got a drum kit through, his stepdad said a few times he played it up in his bedroom. And he said he was just didn't know what he was doing. So he's just like whacking away, making noise. And then right away it would be somebody yelling up the stairs, knocking off the neighbors. They're complaining. So that for him it was like, well, I can't do this here. And that's when he started tying in with other people. And he said, I just made all the mistakes in public, just playing along with other people. But that's how he learned. And, you know, I listened to him going like, yeah, I can relate to that. That makes a lot of sense. And that just became part of how he was.
- [21:01]
A
Yeah, the apprenticeship. Absolutely. And it was Eddie Clayton, the Eddie Clayton Skiffle Group. That was his first outfit, right?
- [21:08]
B
Yeah. And that was his next door neighbor. So all those little tiny details, it was so interesting. And he also said that when his stepdad brought back his first drum kit for him, he told the story. He said, Harry Graves, stepfather, but he says father went down to Mumford suburb, like northeast of London, he says, for a funeral. His cousin had passed away. And he said after the funeral he went back to the house of his cousin's wife. And then he said Carrie noticed a stack of drums in the corner of one room. And he asked about him. And then she said, my husband played them. And so he worked on a deal and he bought them. And then he brought them home and gave them to Ringo unexpectedly. And so through my conversation and doing a little bit more research from when Ringo was younger, going back into the 70s, I think he had a little bit more memory of specifics. And come to find out he had a Slingerland drum kit that was like from the 30s. And it was drum, a pedal hi hat, one cymbal, small tom and a snare drum. But he says he basically just used the snare drum with a skiffle group. And he says so it was easy for him just whenever they're playing gigs. But as he takes you through the journey, when he's telling it in his voice, you just get sucked in. And it's like, wow, I get it. This is cool.
- [22:32]
A
Yeah, there's that picture of him with the Eddie Clayton Skiffle Group, where that's all he's got, is just there drum. I think it's the first Picture taken of any Beatle performing, you would know. That's interesting. I guess I didn't know the Slingerland part. That's interesting because that was what I started with. And it's a Wisconsin brand, right?
- [22:51]
B
I believe so, yeah.
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A
Yeah. So it's interesting it ended up in England. Wow. But Ajax was the first full kit he had, correct?
- [22:58]
B
Yeah. And what he said about that was, you know, because he basically had a drum kit. But he said that there was a music store close by Hessey's, you know, and he says. He goes, I just liked it. He goes, it was new and it was shiny. In reality, it wasn't a better quality kit than the Slingerland, but with the Slingerland Kitty, he never cleaned it. He never did any to it. He just played it. But he just says, I wanted something new in Chinese. So he talked to his parents and talked to his grandfather, and he said, you loan me the money. And Ringo was already working as an apprentice. And so grandfather agreed. And so ringo was only 16 at the time. So when he went to Hessey's Harry, his stepdad had to sign for the paperwork. And then Ringo said he just paid his grandfather back a pound a week for 36 weeks until it was paid. But it was just all those little things is just. Just interesting little stories. And especially when you're watching Ringo, remember, And the way he says it, it's just. It's very, very warming to see him go back in time talking about that.
- [24:04]
A
That's so cool. And you've got a picture of an Ajax kit in the book. How scarce are those? Is that a pretty hard thing to find? That's period authentic, that I don't know.
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B
I never went that far back in collecting that, but I would assume not as hard as it would be as to find. Like the drum kit that Colin Hanton played with Cory. There was something called. Yeah, but a very hard kit to find.
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A
That particular one still exists because I think it was up for auction sometime in recent decades. Right.
- [25:00]
B
That I'm not sure of either.
- [25:02]
A
My memory is at the Beatles story at Albert Docks, that they had it there on display when I was there one time. And I don't remember it being like a replica or a substitute.
- [25:12]
B
Yeah, that one was there. Somebody owns it, and I think they're talking about selling it. And it's for a hell of a lot of money.
- [25:19]
A
I would not expect decades later, before anybody knew these guys were going to amount to anything. So many artifacts to exist, but a surprising number of them do. Some things you've traced. And you talk about it in the book, the premier kit, the one that you hear at least through Please, Please Me and the first singles. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Complete with the pedal squeak that you hear if you listen for it.
- [25:43]
B
And it's interesting with Ringo because every time he talks about it, he goes, ah, that kid was so heavy. And I kept thinking like, why is he saying that? I go back to mine, I pull out the floor Tom and I'm going like, yeah, it is kind of heavy. But I'm just thinking in retrospect, his Ajax kit were just like one sided heads.
- [26:01]
A
It didn't have the bottom heads.
- [26:03]
B
Yeah. And the woods were lighter, so you could see if he was the one lugging them around. Yeah, it's going to be heavy. And he tells an interesting story too, about how it was moving his drum kits around way back when when he was with like Rory Storm. And that's in the book, but the way he tells it, it's just like, wow. To be playing constantly. And every drummer knows what it's like when you play your heart out. And it's like, oh, God, I'm glad it's done. Now I just have to throw my kit in the car. And then you take everything down, you get it in the car and you're driving home and you think, oh my God, I gotta take everything out of the car and put it all away. But for him to have to go to a bus and load it all on a bus and take it off the bus. And knowing his neighborhood, just saying you'd have to, you know, just pick up a few of the cases, run about 20 yards, drop it and then come back hoping nobody's going to steal anything.
- [26:56]
A
Right.
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B
It's quite funny.
- [26:59]
A
Very different world. Yeah, it's amazing. I think we both experienced what it's like to have to pack up your kid after a gig and lug it around. But to have to factor in the criminal element at the same time is something else.
- [27:11]
B
Exactly.
- [27:13]
A
So you have a replica of the premiere in there that's period appropriate. Has he sat down at it? Has he actually played the premiere since all these years later? Since 1963, I guess.
- [27:27]
B
No. And it seems like no Desire too.
- [27:30]
A
That's interesting. There's any number of pictures of him with his various Ludwigs. I was wondering if it meant anything to him, but it seems that he has these memories, but he's not as nostalgic to us as fans is super important. This is history. These are all great stories and we're just captivated Hearing them. The impression I get from you describing him is that he's not a guy to look back very often I would say he's not.
- [27:55]
B
But when he does, he likes taking the stroll. Memory lane. It's interesting we're going to be hopping around here, but for the decades of him having five of the six drum kits that he used during the Beatles, you know, the maple kit he used from time to time, he used his, a combination of his super classics when he did that when we was fab with George. But he had someone responsible for taking care of his hits. An important thing to note that, you know, Ringo just thought everything was taken care of. And when I got involved, when I got the phone call saying, hey, this is the Grammy Museum and we're doing something with Ringo and Barbara, we're doing it, an exhibit on Ringo's life called Ringo Peace and Love, you know, they said, we asked Ringo specifically, can we have the drum kit you used for the Ed Sullivan show and your maple kit that you used on a rooftop to signify the beginning and end of your Beatles career. And Ringo said, yeah. So when the Grammy museum called Ringo's people in London and asked for it, the person who spoke to said, we've got drums here, but we don't know what's what. We don't know what drum goes with what drum to make the proper drum set. And we don't even know what all is available. So the Grammy Museum freaked out and they started doing Google searches for information and they're getting pictures of whatever they were given as far as what was available. That's why I was called. I had my website, Ringo's Beetle kits, and they just said, hey, can you help us? And when I got the call, I'm in my office doing my job with my business and I'm talking to this guy. All I kept thinking was, okay, I have a lot of goofy friends and I like to joke and I'm trying to recognize the voice thinking, who is this? Come on, who's joking? Saying they want my help for doing a Ringo project. And the guy is like, no, no, no, I'm serious, you know, here, look up the number, I'll send you an email. Look at the last part of my email. But when I got involved, they started sending me high resolution pictures. And then, you know, we started figuring things out. So we got it sorted. But what the sad part was, the more I got involved, the more they trusted me, the more I started getting more information. And it landed up that the person that was responsible For Ringo's kits, he had a facility or a building on his home property where he stored the drums along with other people's, I guess. And this person had a battle with cancer that went on for a number of years. So he just neglected this building. And the heating and cooling system malfunctioned. It just didn't work. So all the kids are sitting there going through all the temperature and humidity changes. So the maple kit took the worst of it, I think, just because it was just all wood.
- [30:57]
A
Were these kits in flight cases or were they set up or were they just like broken down, sitting in a pile?
- [31:02]
B
They were just like in the fiber board cases, you know, like the very inexpensive ones. Yeah. So nothing was well protected. And so his maple kit, inside of every shell smelled like mildew. Nothing was warped, thank God. But all the hardware was just pitted and destroyed. I mean, just. It was corroded, a white cancer and pitted so bad. It wasn't anything where you could say, hey, we can save these lugs and just have them stripped and re chromed. It was like way beyond that.
- [31:35]
A
Oh, geez.
- [31:36]
B
And then a lot of the hardware was missing symbols. We couldn't really find anything. So when I'm seeing all this, I said, this is going to be tough to work with. I said, how can you display these drums with no front drum heads on the base? I mean, they just look like they've been through a war. They're just dirty. I said, this is the Beatles. It's Ringo. I said, you can't have people come in excited to see his drum set and just see behind the security glass. That's it. And so I said, I don't want to overstep my bounds, I says, but I have amassed a whole collection of drums, all specific to his same years, same hardware, same everything. And I shared photos and stuff. And I said, I can bring these two kids back to life if you'll allow me, instead of just having them look like this. So it's like, go ahead, do it. And it's like, I worked with Jeff Chona Stringo's drum tech, and just a beautiful guy and a very good friend. We took all the time, you know, and I, when we took everything off, everything was documented, where it came from, every little nut involved and stuff. So we carefully took everything apart and put everything back together. And working with the Grammy Museum, it was like, how do we do all this so that we're following the right guidelines, you know, as far as like cleaning and things. We want to keep everything authentic. And Ringo Said, hey, I want the tape markings to stay on. Anything scuffs. I don't want these things looking like new. I was like, no, no, no, we won't do that.
- [33:11]
A
Cigarette burns.
- [33:13]
B
So it was like a learning process all at once. But it was so intense. And I remember Jeff and I are in this room and we got the drums apart on tables and security. We were the only two people allowed in this room. So a security person comes in to see what we're doing. And I feel very at home because I'm thinking, like, I've collected these drums for decades. I mean. And so it's. I know the color, I know the parts, and it's just normal. And the guy comes up to me and he goes. He sees the drums apart, he goes, you know what you're doing? I said, yeah, it's all good. And he said, I heard that they have these two drum sets insured, like, for $10 million. He goes, I hope you know what you're doing. And so I laughed. He walks out. And then I have the bass drum from the Sullivan kit. It's just a shell. And also, it just hit me. And it was like, this is the drum kit that changed my life. And I start crying. I get a little embarrassed because I didn't know Jeff that well, and I didn't even know if he caught my emotion. So I hear his voice and he just said, it's okay, Gary. He says, I get it. And it was like, oh, good. And so it was then where I just thought, wow, I can't believe what I'm doing. So at the opening, Ringo saw the kits at the opening event, and I guess he was impressed. And then next thing I know, I thought in my heart, okay, my job's done. Everybody's telling me I'm part of the inner circle, but I live in Buffalo. They're all in la, and it's going to be me happily riding off into the sunset. And things would just get quiet and my life would go back to normal. But it was, you know, a short while later, get a call. And then it was like, hey, Ringo wants to know if you would refurbish and document and archive all of his kits. He really likes what you did. And we're like, seriously. You know. So it was like the next level, and all these little things happened. But the coolest part was not knowing or realizing. I'm not a starstruck person. So I always respected Ringo's space. It was never, you know, in my head, I would think, oh, my God, I Hear his voice and he's coming into the room and we'd think, okay, I'm doing something, so I'm just going to focus on what I'm doing. I'm not going to be the drop everything and go over and say, I'm your biggest fan. You know, I never did it. And it reached a point where every time we had interactions, I was thinking, is this going to be the last time? Is this as good as it gets? Where is this going to go? I mean, how much more am I going to do? I just did all this stuff and hey, be happy. You're the guy that helped protect history for the Beatles. And then there was one time where I was in Toronto with Ringo. He had a concert and he walked by doorway and he looked inside and I saw him look at me and there was other people in the room. And a few seconds later he comes back in and he starts walking towards me. And I was with Jeff Jonas. And he just said, he's coming over to you. I go, I know. So he comes over and he puts his hand on my shoulder and he said, Gary. He goes, thank you, thank you, thank you. He said, I saw a lot of your research. And he says, I learned things that I didn't know, and you helped bring back fond memories of things that I had forgotten. And I'm like, wow. And so people are hearing that they were close by, and then Ringo and I Talked for like 15 minutes or whatever, and then he walked out. And then next thing I know, my life changed even more because all those people that didn't know what was going on, just, it was like, Ringo doesn't normally do that and spent a lot of time with this guy. And they're laughing, so Gary must be somebody important. Next thing I know is, who is he? Everybody knows my name. And I just thought this was weird. And Jeff Chonas, at one point, what I kept asking, I go, why is everybody treat me like this? And then he goes, come over here. And we. He actually took me outside and he said, that doesn't happen. Things are going to be a little bit different. But just having Ringo's trust is a big thing to do all this stuff and trust is huge for him and just the way things played out. I know he loves me, obviously I love him. And yeah, all the projects that I've done and I could talk about those, but it's just amazing. And every time I do talks, if I'm talking to people, I always try to make sure to say, I'm like you, I'M no different. I'm a fan. I'm a huge fan. But an oddity happened where this happened to me. Why, I don't know. But I want to share my stories and I want to somehow figure out a way to have you be me, to see what it's like to be in this position and to realize how nice of a guy Ringo is, how talented he is, and all the little frills and details that go with it. It's an amazing ride. And boy, was that a long winded.
- [38:23]
A
You know, there needs to be a good old Gary doc made collating all these stories because I could keep listening. This is just an amazing thing on so many levels.
- [38:35]
B
A lot of those little things you pick up on. I know you would. It's an interesting read of personalities.
- [38:41]
A
Yes. And I suppose it would help going into it when you know a bit of the history, as you surely do. Not just the Beatles broad history, but the stuff that Ringo's gone through through the years. Yeah.
- [38:54]
B
And then even the little subtle things you pick up on, like when you watch the documentaries and the movies, like, get back and you'll just see his personality and his. Oh, he's just like sitting there, he's not saying anything, or the other three are talking amongst each other and stuff. But then you'll listen to him talk about his times in the studio. He'll just say, I'm there, but I'm always ready. I'm always listening, absorbing information. And when I'm needed, it's not like I'm like, oh, God. Guys, bring me up to speed. I was zoning out for the past.
- [39:21]
A
Two hours, very present. And it seems like even if he's not contributing actively to the conversations, you can tell when they solicit his input, it is meaningful to them.
- [39:33]
B
Yeah.
- [39:34]
A
It's not like, oh, it's just Ringo, who cares? It's like, no. Oh, Ringo doesn't want to do this. Okay, yeah, all right, well, I guess we're not doing it.
- [39:41]
B
I think that's it exactly. And also I just saw something with the drummer for the Police.
- [39:47]
A
Oh, Stuart Copeland.
- [39:49]
B
We're going to be doing this a lot.
- [39:53]
A
Edit, edit.
- [39:54]
B
You know, saying that Sting would present a song and then Stuart's got all these things going through his mind of, oh my God, I could do this, I could do that. And he goes, sting wrote the song. So he's like, here's what I want you to do. I don't want that there. And he goes, it's frustrating, but McCartney, I think, had a lot to do with Ringo saying, try this. And I think some of the imaginative drumming came from Paul. And then Ringo just took it and said, is this what you want? And he makes it his own.
- [40:22]
A
It's no detraction if you're the one executing it, because you're the one executing it. People can come up with all kinds of ideas. And I remember a quote from Ringo, it might have been the modern Drummer interview in 1981, which was, I think, the first time I ever saw him talking in great detail about his drumming career, where he said the other Beatles would play him stuff and he'd listen to it and go, that's two drummers on that. It's like they didn't understand, but he could, being a drummer and having the ears for it.
- [40:50]
B
Yeah, and that's exactly it. It also amazes me too, with the things he came up with and, you know, Masterclass. Have you watched that? It's amazing. Greg Bissonnet was brought in to, like, hey, think of questions, what to ask him and stuff. So then Greg brought me in and he brought in, like, Jeff Chonas, Ringo's drum tech. So Greg comes up with all these cool things to ask Ringo about drumming. And then I land up providing these late 50s, early 60s bongos that I have, like, Ringo used.
- [41:23]
A
Is that the ones you brought to the fest a few years ago? Yeah, yeah, I remember those.
- [41:27]
B
I sent those out and I sent tea towels. And so Ringo does a segment on the tea towels and on the bongos. So when you watch Masterclass, Greg's nowhere to be found. Nobody is. It's just Ringo talking in the different chapters or wherever it's called, but he's just talking about his drumming and working with musicians and how he operates. And you see him doing roles and stuff. It's like, I didn't know you could do that. But it's so deep, I'm going like, wow, this guy. He might not be a technical drum geek, but this guy is so impressive. You could watch it over and over and you're always pulling something else out of it, going, wow, this is awesome.
- [42:08]
A
He seemed to be a guy that was really, really confident in his playing and his reputation for a guy that I've made the observation that the only people that put down Ringer as a drummer are non musicians. If you're a musician, you absolutely get it, how masterful he is. And in the face of all that, a lesser person, I would think, would be constantly rattled by the sort of abusive stuff thrown his way about the luckiest guy on earth. And what a lousy drummer. And he's no fill in the blank. He seemed to be very Zen about that, like he knew what's what. And you're talking about what you're describing here is, this is why. Because there's a lot more depth to him than you realize. You're listening to that Beatle record, that Ringo record. He's got far more going on than you might be picking up just by hearing that one track.
- [43:00]
B
Yeah. And you know it. Right. Playing drum, it's so easy to pick out, you know, and whether it's his hi hat work, and they're going like, wow, this is like flawless. And when you know the history and you're going like, they banged this song off in like six takes. And this is what he did. This is nuts. But you can just tell from all the hours he put in how solid he is and how confident he is. And it was funny. He was talking to me about his youth and things, and he says when he finally bought a car, he bought it from a drummer, a guy named Johnny Hutch.
- [43:33]
A
Yes.
- [43:34]
B
And then he says he was a good drummer. And then he goes. I always used to say, he goes, there was only two good drummers in Liverpool, and the other one was Johnny Hutchins.
- [43:43]
A
Right. From the Big Three, who actually sat in with the Beatles a few times.
- [43:50]
B
Yeah, exactly. What if there were a medicine that could heal almost anything? That would be great, but they didn't want you to know about it. Sorry, who's they? Some people are following me. And I brought my tortoise.
- [44:03]
A
From executive producers Mike Judge and Greg Daniels and co creators Joe Bennett and Steve Healy. Comes with animated comedy thriller about what.
- [44:11]
B
It takes to change the world. Common side Effects.
- [44:14]
A
Series premieres with back to back episodes February 2nd at 11:30pm on Adult Swim. Next day on Max.
- [44:22]
B
Hey, what's up, you guys? This is Reed Mathis. I made a podcast called the Gifts of Improvising. The Gifts of Improvising that's coming out on Osiris. We talked to all your favorite improvisers. Natalie Cressman, Marco Benevento, Tom Hamilton, Aaron Magner, Holly Bowling, Bill Kreutzman and Jay Lane.
- [44:39]
A
So what, you're doing a podcast?
- [44:41]
B
Yeah, doing a podcast. So don't fear if you hear a foreign sound to your ear. We need the gifts of improvising. Improvising.
- [44:58]
A
Amazing stuff. And that is in the book. And one of the things that popped into my head while listening to you talk is that he surely respects the fact that not only you did what you did as a historian, but as a drummer as well, and presumably learned an awful lot of your craft by listening very close to the Beatle records. Did you guys ever have any conversations where you talk specifically about drum parts he did on records? Is that the kind of thing he's willing to share or talk about?
- [45:24]
B
Yeah, we had. And a lot of that pertains to when we were doing the book, what was good about this book. And I don't want to get sidetracked. I want to focus on what you're talking about. But we should talk about how this book started. But when we were doing this one section of the book, I had set up all of Ringo's. His four remaining drum kits that he has and his clothes and things like that.
- [45:46]
A
When you say four remaining, you'd mentioned six during the Beatle years. The premier kit he doesn't have anymore, which is the other one.
- [45:52]
B
The other one he doesn't have anymore is his very first Ludwig kit, a 1963 downbeat that was sold at auction in 2015. And Jim Irsay.
- [46:00]
A
Yeah, okay, The Cult.
- [46:01]
B
So he's got that. So Ringo has, like, four left.
- [46:04]
A
I do remember the Ringo auction. And that was where the oversized kit for the hello Goodbye video went up. That he still had. Not something that was ever a serious playing kit. Right.
- [46:16]
B
Actually, it was interesting, that auction. I was a big part of the whole drum area of that auction. I was involved in that heavily. So it was a year of my life doing research and getting all that stuff set up. I always thought that that kit was bought as a prop because it just seems so weird. But what I found out had the kit set up for Ringo. And he sat behind it and then he goes, oh, it looks like this was played. And you see wear on the heads. And he starts playing it and then he says, I ordered this kit special. I just thought big drums, big and loud, and that's what I wanted. And he says, but. Because when it was set up and he's sitting behind us so you can actually see what he's talking about, he goes. So when I had it all set up, he goes, I couldn't get my legs spread enough around the snare drum to operate the hi hat and the bass drum pedal. And it was like, get it out of here. I'm going, like, wow, who knew? And then when he looked at the heads, he goes, obviously these drums must have been used, like, for overdubs.
- [47:18]
A
That's interesting. I assumed, like you, it was a prop for a video. Just like the little undersized kit that he plays in the same video.
- [47:26]
B
Yeah, exactly. So that was just amazing. But going back to talking to him, when we had the kits set up, Ringo and Julian's auctions, who was involved with this book, they had, like, a film crew there, and they were documenting everything and filming us talking together about the clothes and the drum kits. So Ringo's sitting behind us, each one of the kits, and I had them tuned the best I could. But he just sat there and I'm off camera and just asking him questions, and he's playing, so I'm asking about all the little intricacies with some of the songs. And he's just sitting there giving me drum lessons. And that's all I kept thinking was, it's not like I'm sitting next to him and he's saying, okay, Gary, you take the sticks and you play this. Now, obviously, people like us, you watch, you hear it, and it's like, okay, yeah, I got it. I just saw your technique as to how you're playing. So I'm laughing to myself, going, like, does it get any better getting drum lessons from Ringo Starr? But some things he does remember, sometimes you'd have to say a little something like, now the song goes like this. And he went, oh, yeah, yeah. And he would just take off. But he talked about, get back. And he said, I was wondering. He goes. He goes, I'm watching the documentary. And he goes, I'm seeing how I'm playing at the beginning, and he's mimicking it. And then he says, how did I go from that to, like, the gallop thing? And he goes, I don't know. I don't remember. And what I didn't know when we were talking about that at the time, Greg Bissonnet, Bringo's drummer in the All Stars, who's a dear friend and a great guy, he told me that he contacted Peter Jackson and he said, hey, Peter. He goes, ringo's asking. He was trying to figure out how he got from the initial song and his simple beat to how it ended up and what he did. And so he says, is this possible for you to find the footage? So Peter says, I got a team here. He goes, we'll see what we can do. So he found, even though it's things that we haven't seen, he found the footage where you could see Ringo's progression to get from A to B. And he put it together and sent it to Ringo.
- [49:36]
A
Holy cow.
- [49:37]
B
Now Ringo watches it, and so now he's showing me. He goes, I Started out like this, and then I went to this and I went to this, and I got here, I go, like, how cool is that? Wow.
- [49:48]
A
I think if I was in that room and he started playing the drums to Tomorrow Never Knows, I'd have a heart attack.
- [50:16]
B
And he does that so effortlessly. His hand coordination. I asked him, you know, he is ambidextrous and he still has rapid speed for 84 years old, it's just absolutely amazing. But when he does Tomorrow Never Knows, just a constant ride on the crash and then just all one hand for the tom and floor tom work. And it's just so consistent because Greg Bassinet even thought, hey, he must just hit the snare once, come off the cymbal, and then do a boom, boom, you know, with both hands on the tom and then go back and he showed Ringo that. And Ringo goes, why would you do that? Ringo just start showing him how he plays. But it's just absolutely amazing. And another thing, so I don't lose this thought, seeing Ringo, like, get sound checks and stuff when they're doing songs. Here I am, I'm sitting right or standing right behind him. He's on the riser just feet away. And when he plays, he's got that magic touch. And I always explain to people, you know, how you could take a guitar that's perfectly tuned and everybody's comfortable with, and you could take, say, three guitarists that are great, and you could just say, guys, you all know this song. I want each one of you just to take this guitar and play it. And you're going to have one of those guys that has that magic touch where everyone's just going to look at him and say, what soul, what magic you have? That thing. Well, Ringo's got it in spades. And after I witnessed it initially, they get done with soundcheck, I call Greg over and I said, I need to ask you something, and I want to be serious about this. I go, he's got the magic touch. And then Greg says, gary, every night when I play with him, he goes, yeah. He says he's, like, spellbound. And he says, all I keep thinking is, don't flam when you play with Ringo. But that's one of the ingredients when you add the four of them together, that you can't buy that, right? You just have it or you don't. And all those little elements that make them so magical and special. It's a blessing for me to have witnessed that. Know in my heart, like, wow, this is like way, way to another level. That I never anticipated.
- [52:28]
A
Seemingly it was evident back in Liverpool.
- [52:30]
B
Yeah, definitely had to be. And another thing Ringo and I talked about was it's in the book and I can never remember the title, but about someone putting 10,000 hours in to something to hone their craft.
- [52:42]
A
Yeah, the Malcolm Gladwell quote.
- [52:44]
B
Yeah, exactly. And Ringo talked about that and he's the one who brought up to me, he goes, yeah, yeah. I even think he goes, we're in the book. You know, it's like, yeah, you are. But it's just a perfect example of once again how all that chemistry landed up being where they just kind of lock in, you know, and without it have to having to say anything where they just say, hey, I know where you're going. We've never been there before, but we're both going there at the same time. And. And here it goes. So that was the other magic thing that they put so much time in. And when you think about their performances and to be so well versed, such as you and so many other people listening, where they could play songs like Long Tall Sally and every time they play it, it's like such high energy, such enthusiasm, like they played it for the first time and it's like, how many bands can do that?
- [53:33]
A
Yeah, it was amazing to see him and Paul together most recently at the end of the tour in London. Who expected that? That was unbelievable.
- [53:41]
B
Yeah, it was so cool.
- [53:42]
A
There's so many miracles, minor miracles attached to the Beatles, but the fact that at the ages these men are. That they were able to pull that off in front of a stadium full of people, it was just, jeez, you know, when is it going to end? This is incredible. They just keep pulling it out of the bag.
- [53:57]
B
Bringing to the stage the mighty, the one and only Mr. Ringo star.
- [54:16]
A
Should we rock?
- [54:18]
B
I only rock.
- [54:24]
A
I did notice in Ringo's recent drumming history that the hi hat placement toward the opposite side, you know what I'm talking about? How did that come about? Is that something you have any inside information on?
- [54:34]
B
Yeah, I'm told by Jeff Jonas. I guess Ringo had some shoulder issues. He just found it easier just to.
- [54:41]
A
Do that, Just to not do the cross wrist thing. Yeah, yeah, and he can. And being ambidextrous, as you pointed out, something that I didn't really think about. I think I kind of vaguely knew it from the Andy Buick book. But then you made it pretty clear in the beads and threads book as you go through the extant kits and even the ones that aren't really Ringos but are like Ringos the exact replicas that the Premier kit and the Ludwig one that they purchased for America the first time they came over. Both times he's sitting down with those kits for the first time. It's for a TV show appearance, The Solomon show, the first one. And thank youk Lucky Star Is in England for the premiere. I just think to myself, as somebody who plays drums, that if I'm sitting down at this kit for the very first time, I sure the heck don't want to be on live tv. You want to sort it out and get comfortable with it. But again, it speaks to the 10,000 hours and such a pro and such confidence in his abilities that it didn't particularly faze him.
- [55:41]
B
I didn't even give that a thought, but thanks for that golden Nugget. You're right.
- [55:46]
A
Yeah. Amazing. Was the Hard Day's Night kit the same as the Sullivan one, or was that the original Ludwig back in England?
- [55:55]
B
No, it was the same kit. And a lot of people ask the question of, like, why'd he get the Sullivan kit, a brand new one, when he already had one? And the little backstory was that Brian knew their schedule and he knew that they were gonna start shooting A Hard Day's Night, the beginning of March. And someone had the idea of, like, hey, it'd be a good idea if we had a matching drum set. So we had one for the movie to be on set and one for the studio and whatever performances they were gonna do. So that was the reason, and it was just faster just to call. So what had happened was Brian placed the order with Drum City and then Iver worked things out with Ludwig and had the kit sent to Manny's music store. And I know there was some question through the years of, oh, they must have sent the wrong kit, because here's pictures of Ringo playing, like, this white Marine Pearl kit. And that was just the loaner that Sullivan's studio just had there, waiting for Ringos to show up or be delivered. He just used that one for, like, when they were doing the camera blocking. So that was reason for that. And then when Ringo's kit, Sullivan kit, went back, Drum City replaced all the heads because Manny's had put their stamp on all of the heads before they delivered the kit. So they wanted to get in advertising. So they put all new heads on, and there was some scuffs and things on the drum head from the Sullivan Show. So they had Eddie Stokes, the guy who painted the heads, create a new one, and they installed that for the movie. And Ringo thought He was going to keep using that kit, so he had the Rogers Tom mount installed too. That's why you don't see it on the Sullivan show and you see it on the Hard Days Night Movie.
- [57:41]
A
Right. It was cool. In the book. There's loads of stuff in there that is just fascinating to see. You'd mentioned Brian before. There's the ephemera of the hand typed out itineraries. They're like endless. Where you're gonna be and when and all this stuff. Just can imagine that multiplied time every day of the Beatles touring years. What an incredible thing. And it's just amazing that they exist, that they were preserved. This ephemeral stuff.
- [58:07]
B
I was gonna say, you know, it's interesting when you see the one where it gives a weekly schedule. It's like it starts August 19, 1962, the day after Ringo joined.
- [58:16]
A
Right.
- [58:16]
B
So it was like the day. I just thought that was interesting.
- [58:19]
A
Yes, exactly. The train's pulling out of the station. You're on board now. Hang on, that's what's happening. But you mentioned Eddie Stokes, the guy who did the drop T logo, and you have in the book that evidently he presented four different styles and it was George that picked the one to go with you. Look at the four and there's a replica of it in the book. It's the only obvious choice. It's like, yes, this is the one that pops. This is the amazing one. This is before we'd gotten 60 years of getting used to this. It's like, of course this is the one. It just stands out so much. It is so cool. And considering what it was, replacing the logo with the antenna on it, the Beetle one that he had prior to it was a good solid advance in their presentation for sure.
- [59:05]
B
You know what's interesting about that whole story was that when you read books, Ivor Arbretter, he takes credit. Like he came up with the design of the logo and I think maybe he came up with emphasizing beat, I don't know. But when I talked to Ringo about it. Ringo, Ringo. I said, you're there in the room when all this happened. Do you remember that? And he said, no, I don't. So what I found interesting is when I was working on one of Ringo's kits, I took the head off one of the Toms and it was a business card inside from a guy named Dave Golding, and it's a Drum City and it's held on by one of the washers holding the Rogers Mountain. So I thought, this is cool. This thing's been in there for 50 years. So I tracked Dave Golding down and the first initial phone call was very odd because it's like, who is this? And. But we got to know each other and I was in the UK and he met me and he had his lovely wife and his son, but he had all these documents and papers and he told me this story. He says, I started at Drum City in 1963. And he goes, and I just. I just worked in the service room. I put kits together, take them out of the boxes, refurbished kits, sold them. And he goes, and I left as the store manager in 1967. So everybody that is still around that I met that knows him and remembers those times, they all said the same thing. If Dave Golding said something to you, take it to the bank. Ivor are better. A little bit of an ego there. So I kind of, you know. And everybody said the same thing. So I'm going, okay, guys, I'm just kind of starting to take in your information and I'll try to get it out there based on what you're saying. And everyone has slightly different memories of things, right? But when I talked to Dave, he goes, yeah. He goes, I remember Ringo's kit. And he goes, they weren't really anything. Then he goes, but I just remembered. He goes, it was reinforced over time as they were growing. And first we had Neil Aspinall coming in, then it was Male Evans. And so he says, so you knew that they were a big band. But he said, I remember that bug logos, you know. And he says, it was just filthy. He goes, so when I took the kid in, he goes, we were just going to resell it. And he goes, I just took it off. And he goes, I just threw it in the garbage. And then that's when he goes on to say he's talking about the drum head. And then he just said, you know, I had this white piece of hardboard on my workbench. And he says, if I had that today, I would be a millionaire. And I said, what are you talking about? White hardboard? And then he explains what's in the book, the four samples. So I go, what was it about? And he said, well, when I got the work order for the drum kit, he goes, we had it, but I had to order snare drum and I had to have the drum head made. And he goes, and Eddie did all of our drum heads, the Dave Clark five, and different bands. He started telling me about. I'm going, wow. So he says, eddie was a friend of mine and so he came up with these four different designs. And he came in, gave me the samples and he says, and I called the number I had and he thought at first that Neil Aspinall was Male Evans, but it wasn't the case. But he gave it to Neil. And that's when all the guys are going away on vacation. And that's when John was going away with Brian to Spain, right? It was right at that time. So George was the only one available. And that's why George just made the decision. Because I thought it was strange, like for them being artists, you would think that they would have some input, you know, make some comments. But he goes, that's what I know happened. I was just the middleman. I had nothing to do with anything, but that's my memory. And I said, okay. So when I reread Ivor Arbetter's story, he comments about not only coming up with the logo, but sketching it out on the pad and having Eddie Stokes, a guy with a withered arm, a painter, you know, that did shop windows and things, create the logo. And he paid him five pounds, like it's almost braggadocious. So I land up through Russ Leese, a guy who did a lot of research and things on Drumheads. Russ is friends with Richard Stokes, who is Eddie Stokes son. So I get in touch with him and he says, my dad wasn't like this, you know, makes it sound like a guy living in a box in London just getting by by painting shop windows. He goes, he was an artist. He actually worked for Walt Disney. He goes, disney Head Studio in Piccadilly Circus. And he goes, my father was extremely talented. And he goes, and I remember him painting drum heads at home at our kitchen table. He goes, I don't remember him doing that one, but I just know that he did them and he was a very talented guy. And when I showed him the picture of the board that I got from Dave Golding, he said, that's the board. That's the exact type of board that my dad would paint on. And so it's like, wow. So I'm getting this information from two people that don't know each other and everything is matching up. So Richard's saying is, I wish my dad would get proper credit. And he goes, you know, he goes, he died early. He was young when he died. He goes, so I didn't really know him. And then he told me something that I just thought was weird. He had one picture of his father and it's in the book. And when you see It Eddie's wearing like a sport jacket and he's got his withered arm. The hand is tucked inside a jacket. He said he would always do that so he looked more normal. And Richard says, seeing his hand like that, that was normal to me. And he goes, I can remember grabbing it and swinging on it. I thought, that's weird.
- [64:57]
A
I gather that wasn't his painting arm.
- [64:59]
B
No, but. But he said he had a way of using his arm to hold things and he would paint with his other hand. And he said, well, my dad died. He said, we got a letter from Walt Disney saying how important my father was to the company and he had some paintings. And actually behind me are a collage of paintings that Eddie did.
- [65:21]
A
Oh, wow.
- [65:21]
B
I got this from Richard.
- [65:23]
A
Okay.
- [65:24]
B
Yeah. So very, very, very talented guy. So I wanted to make sure to get that story out there and people can believe what they want to believe, but to me it just seems so heavy on the side of Eddie Stokes being way more than just window sign painter that happened to do drum heads.
- [65:42]
A
Now that's an amazing thing to see in the book, what the alternate universe Beatles logo would have been.
- [65:47]
B
Oh yeah, yeah.
- [65:50]
A
I never would have left Liverpool. It is an amazing collection of things. And I have to ask the question, being in Ringo's orbit, in his proximity, was it the kind of thing where he had so much stuff that you had to kind of whittle it down to figure out what was going to go into the book?
- [66:09]
B
As far as that goes, the answer goes back to me because when we did the book, besides me saying we're putting clothes in it too, so it was simple instructions that just added to the pressure, self inflicted pressure on my end it was, you put in the book whatever you want to put in the book. The book is going to be whatever you want it to be, following the guidelines. So it was me figuring, well, let's just start it this first drum as a child and go to the end of the Beatle career. That's my zone, you know, anything out, you start going past that, I'm going to go adrift. So it was no matter what you want to put in, however little or heavy, it's all your call.
- [66:52]
A
I understand the reasoning and I'm not questioning it, but one of the things that I thought about when I was going through the book is I remember vividly the Ringo TV special. He's playing those plexiglass drums. Does he still have that kit?
- [67:04]
B
No, that sold at auction in 2015, but I'm aware of them because I Had to put them all together and I thought, wow, this is it. Yeah. Ogner Rats.
- [67:15]
A
Yes. And I figured they were not chosen for their sound, but rather they look cool on tv.
- [67:24]
B
Yeah, Especially at that time. It was really, really special.
- [67:27]
A
Speaking of 1978, I think that was the year if it was not recorded, released or something. The Jackson Browne album Running On Empty. Do you ever remember seeing his drummer's kit? I think there must have been like something in inner sleeve or a booklet or something. I couldn't tell you what kind of drums they were, who made them, but he's got these racks full of toms and they sort of ballooned out the bottom part, almost like the bell end of a tuba or something. I'd never seen drums like that before. Do you know what I'm talking about?
- [67:57]
B
The name's not coming to mind, but I'm well aware.
- [67:59]
A
I'm sure they were fiberglass or something, but yeah, of the era.
- [68:02]
B
Yeah, definitely.
- [68:05]
A
Were there things that for the sake of space, that you would have liked to have had in the book that aren't in the book, or did you pretty much cherry pick the cream of everything?
- [68:15]
B
I could have added more, but there were things that he didn't have and we wanted it other than the premiere kit, which is in there and that was part of my collection, but everything else is what Ringo had. There was other things I would have liked to have talked about, like the bongos and his conga drums, which he doesn't have, but it was like, okay, so we don't have them. And that's part of what this is about to showcase. And also too with the book, just as with the clothing, I think you'll agree all the pictures are so detailed and so high def that it's like, what would I want to see as a drummer? I want to see all the things I couldn't see or really wasn't aware of, you know, or sometimes you'd be questioning. Well, I hear people say that he put a Rogers Time mount on his kits, but is it really? I never really saw a definitive picture, you know, so this way just lays it all out and it's like, here you go.
- [69:03]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And depending on your area of interest, the drums are all iconic. They're all the sounds that we hear on the records. And if you're a musician at all, they're going to be an extra level fascination. You absolutely satisfy that curiosity with these tight high res closeups of everything you can imagine. And then you've got the clothes which going into it I think, well, I'm not a fashion guy, but it's like, lo and behold, this stuff is fascinating because it is the artifacts of history that we all know. And all this stuff is like, you throw a picture up of a particular shirt or a jacket. I'm thinking, I'm not sure about that one. And then you've got the period picture. It's like, oh, that picture. That's where he's wearing that. It was black and white. I didn't recognize it. And here it is lime green or whatever it is. And then you've got the close up to Dougie Milling's Taylor labels and all this amazing stuff. Again, a minor miracle that I would have thought anybody lived through the 60s. You're not going to hold on to this stuff. You're going to give it away. And I've heard stories, you mentioned Russ Leese before, the story of John Lennon's Shea Stadium jacket and how that just was basically tossed to the winds and not recognized as a piece of iconic history. So the fact that Ringo has held onto this stuff, especially with the knowledge that we have as fans that he had a house fire in California in the late 70s that at the time we were told his Beatle mementos were all burned up. And then subsequently, well, apparently not, because they just had this auction. And you've got this book. So an awful lot of stuff does exist. You've got this clothing starting, I think, from 64 Hard Day's Night. And that era. The collarless suit that everybody knows from the 63 pictures. Is that something you happen to know if he has it or where it might be?
- [70:49]
B
What he told me was that when we were talking about the collarless suits, he had said that Brian had secured a home. He had a certain word for it, but you know how wealthy people would have their main house and then you have, like a carriage house behind it. And they were converted many times into regular living quarters. Well, they had a place like that in London where they were storing things. And somebody broke in and stole a lot of clothing. And he, you know, specifically said the colorless suits.
- [71:20]
A
Wow.
- [71:20]
B
That's as far as he went with that. But that was a story I never heard before.
- [71:25]
A
No, never.
- [71:26]
B
But in addition to that, with all that he has. I heard that when he was at Tittenhurst, he'd have parties and people would show up that didn't belong there. And whoever he had working as an assistant at that time was pretty sharp and realized, like, okay, people are in his bedroom, they're walking out with stuff. So she clamped down. And then she's the one who, I think, initiated protecting what he had. And even though Ringo was unaware of all that he still had, she was one who initiated saving everything. And Ringo had this story he told me, we're talking about his pepper suit. He goes, I didn't know where that was. And he said he and Barbara went into a bank where they had a vault or a security section, and they came in to get her wedding dress and it was in a box. So he says, he goes, should we take it out of the bank? And he goes, and we literally put it on the ground outside the bank and open the lid up. And underneath her wedding dress was his pepper suit. And he's like. He's like, what is this doing here? But you hear these stories and it's just like, wow. And the other thing, just talking about his clothes, everything still fits him.
- [72:39]
A
That's amazing.
- [72:40]
B
Yeah, his pepper jacket fits. I mean, he put on like that lime green striped shirt or jacket that you see in hey Jude. Everything fits. It's like, how does that happen? And with those ruffled shirts.
- [72:55]
A
Yes.
- [72:56]
B
Didn't dawn on me until they're all there in front of me. It's like, oh, my God. And you realize as you go through the book, you know, he had like the red one with white polka dots, he had a yellow one, he had a white one. It was like an assortment and they're all slightly different, but they're all the same theme look. So it was pretty cool. And he told me when we were talking about the hey Jude suit, the green one, he said this. He goes, this was my everyday wear. I go, really? I go, wow, Interesting.
- [73:30]
A
It's unreal that the stuff that has become so iconic from seeing pictures of this at any number of Beatle books and like, you mentioned the promo films and stuff like that, that it's still in existence. All kinds of stuff. All you need is love. And the dashiki from Magical Mystery Tour. It's just incredible stuff you wouldn't even think of until your eyes land on it. It's like, oh, my God, I know what this is from. And you've got the happy story in there about the Abbey Road jacket.
- [73:55]
B
Yeah. Which was absolutely amazing. And the way that came about was, I think the origin was with Julian's Auctions. They had contacted Ringo's guy, Scotty, Ringo's assistant, and said, hey, guy who owns it. Shopping this round, I think it's going to go for auction. So I get a call from Scotty and It was like, hey, here's the deal. We know that, you know the guy that has it, see if he'll do the right thing. And it's just like, what do you mean, see if he'll do the right thing?
- [74:25]
A
You know, he's your friend.
- [74:28]
B
So long story short, that ended up with Russ and I going back and forth, and I go from just, hey, talk to your friend to me becoming a negotiator. And I'm going like, I can't believe that I'm doing this. But ultimately, Ringo got it back. And the coolest part was, what's in the pockets? The coolest part was when we gave it to him, there was another person involved who added to the finance end of obtaining it. So we have the jacket, and it's like, okay, we got it. Now what are we going to do with it? And my friend says, his name's Robert Byrd. He goes, well, it's me, you, and Scotty that made this happen. He goes, why don't we give it to Ringo as an early birthday gift for his 80th birthday? So it's like, wow, that's cool. That's a nice thought. So we have it gift wrapped in a box, and we set up an appointment to go see Ringo is in February 22nd of his 80th birthday, which.
- [75:28]
A
Would have been 2020.
- [75:30]
B
There you go. Okay. So we go to his house, and I get out. Ringo comes out of the house. He's standing in the driveway. And then he goes, give me a hug, brother. You know? So I give him a hug, and then my friend Robert comes up to him thinking the same thing. And as he goes to hug Ringo, Ringo backs up and goes, elbow bump. I'm going, oh, God, it's embarrassing. We go in the house, and then Ringo says, so you got me a present? I go, yeah. So he put the box down, and then there was little stars stuck on it. So he takes the stars and he sticks them on my shirt and he puts one on Roberts. And then he opens the lid and he looks inside and he goes, oh, you got me a box of fancy tissue paper. And it's like, no, no, no, take it out of the way. So he removes the tissue paper and he goes, oh, it's a black jacket. And the way he pulled it out, he's got it by the shoulders and it unfurls in front of him, and the back is to him. So he's. He's looking at the back. And then we just start saying, that's your jacket. And he. He does A what? We go, that's your jacket. Abby Road, that's your jacket. And he's, like, puzzled. So he puts his arm through one of the sleeves, and he goes, it fits. I've got short arms. It fits. And he puts it on, and we think, that's your jacket. And he froze for a minute. And then he starts walking in the house. And then he says, follow me. Let's walk. Like, we're crossing Abbey Road. We're walking behind him. We walk outside, and some pictures were taken. He thanks us, and then he disappears. And I said to Robert, I said, well, you happy? I think that's as good as it gets. And he goes, oh, God, I'm so happy. So then Barbara walks out, and then she comes up to us and she said, you two just made my husband very, very happy. Thank you. And I'm really cool. That's so cool. So that was it. But we were puzzled. And then, next thing you know, Ringo comes back out of the house and gives me a hug, gives Robert a hug. He's talking to us, and everything was really nice. And then we parted ways. But then we asked Scotty later, It's like, so what happened to Ringo? Where did he go? He said he didn't know how to handle it. He goes, he went in the house. He says, he went into Barbara's closet and there's a big, big mirror. He's standing in front of the closet with the jacket on. He's crying. And Scotty walks in and says, you okay? And he just kept saying, I can't believe they did this for me. Why would they do this for me? And Scotty says, because they love you. Everybody loves you. And it was just like, such a touching moment to know that that happened and to have him reacquainted with that is just another magical story. And this thing I got going on with Ringo, so very special moment I'll never forget.
- [78:27]
A
Unbelievable. And the guy whose idea it was didn't get the hug. Amazing. That is so cool. So Ringo, as we speak, is riding awfully high right now with the look up album, which, correct me if I'm wrong, I read that it was number one on the country charts.
- [78:47]
B
It was last week. Yeah.
- [78:49]
A
There you go.
- [78:50]
B
First time in 54 years for Ringo to have a number one.
- [78:53]
A
It begs the question, because by all accounts, and I said as much in one of my books, that when he did Bookus at Blues, which seemed to be a passion project for him 1970, he's a guy that obviously loves country music, it couldn't be any more authentic with Pete Drake producing and going to Nashville and doing something that he loved. And actually, people that aren't prone to throw compliments his way as a recording artist love that album. It's like, this is authentic. He delivers. He was born to do this, fits him like a glove. And yet it takes him 54 years to return to that. Well, it seemed a little perverse.
- [79:31]
B
Yeah, it's so amazing. And you know what surprised me? I was down there, I was in Nashville with them for the two shows. And you know, there's a part where you can be kind of narrow minded and think, okay, you know, country western, I mean, how are they going to be accepting of a Beatle? You know, that it's been a long time, you know, but everyone went nuts. I mean, it was insane. As you would. You feel like Ringo is a family member. You just feel close to him. And I was like so proud and happy for him. And while he was down there, he was invited next month to go back and to sing at the Grand Ole Opry. And from what I was told was that that's big. That's like they're really inviting you to the family. You're. It's like you're in now, you can't get out, you know, kind of a thing. Wow. But he's just over the top about this.
- [80:23]
A
Did anybody besides Cibo and Burnett see this coming? That this would be a huge thing for him?
- [80:28]
B
That I don't know, with all the things I had going on. I have to tell you something. When I was there for both shows, I didn't know a lot of the players in the band. And it wasn't until they would be announcing the steel player or the fiddle player when the audience would go nuts and give standing ovations, Obviously I'd go like, okay, there's somebody. But it's typical. Like, you know, Ringo gets the best of the best and he loved it. And it was just such a special two nights.
- [80:56]
A
And it's going to be a TV special, I read.
- [80:59]
B
Yeah, it is. From cbs. And it's going to happen sometime in spring. I heard April, but I'm not sure the date. And he's also going to have something coming on on one of the CBS morning shows on Sunday where they're going to do a segment. When that comes out, I don't know, but I would assume sometime relatively soon. And that brings me up to mentioning about his peace hand.
- [81:22]
A
Yes.
- [81:23]
B
So I had that down there and eight and a half feet tall.
- [81:28]
A
Are you the curator of it, like, does it go home with you when it's done traveling?
- [81:32]
B
Yeah. In fact, right now it's being prepared to be created and sent to Liverpool. Oh, but the response we had there it is inside the Ryman an hour before each show, during intermission, and at the end of each show, I was there with the hand and I would just be the guy saying, hey, let me take your picture. And I had some friends taking videos of me, taking pictures of people, and some took pictures of me. But at the end of an hour before one of the shows, one of the security people said, oh, my God, you were so busy. How many photos do you think you'd taken? And I said, I don't know, maybe 80. And then the friend that took photos just said, gary took more than that. And then he shows me his phone. It's got like four rows of pictures and he starts doing the, you know, scrolling, and he goes, there's a couple hundred here. And then when I saw the video, you could play it at three times the speed. And it just goes like for three minutes of just me grabbing phones and things. But there were some special moments where people would. Had one woman in particular. Everything's normal, a lot of people around. Woman gives me her phone and she's got her daughter with her. She goes up to the hand, they give the peace sign and I go to give her the phone back. And she's got her hands around the statue and she's crying and I can feel it coming here. But for me and the people that were there waiting their turn to get a picture, we all start welling up that just something happened where it was like, so emotional. And then she's trying to apologize, going, excuse me. I just. I love Ringo so much and I'm never going to see a beetle. And I'm like, wow. And it just makes me appreciate my position. And I had to give her a pair of Ringo drumsticks.
- [83:22]
A
Nice.
- [83:22]
B
Because I just touched my heart. But the power of a beetle atalia, that's something that I can't describe, but it's absolutely amazing. And for us to be living in the time when we saw it happen and to see the aftermath and how the strength of the emotion is still there. I mean, for me, it's just like. It's like. I don't know what I do with this, other than maybe share, you know, in situations like this, but it's magical. We're never going to see anything like this again.
- [83:56]
A
Well, we give you all the credit in the world. Gary, for sharing your intimacy and how your expertise and love and passion that came about that February night, 1964, took you on this inconceivable journey that nobody in a million years could have seen you landing in this place in the 21st century, but there it is. And it is a testament to your open heartedness and generosity that you're bringing people in with the stories, your presentations and this beautiful book, this beautiful coffee table book presented by Julian's Auctions, loaded with great pictures. I know there was various editions of it. Is it still available or is it sold out? Because I think it was limited. Right, it's limited.
- [84:38]
B
Maybe there'll be a second edition. Hope so. I think so. There's plans in the works for another big push getting the book out. And it's something I can't talk about right at this time, but look for it because it's right around the corner. You'll be hearing about it when it happens, but it's available through JulianAuctions.com and you could also go to my website, which is ringosbeetlekits.com and that'll take you to a link there. And I do have another order coming in from my website. If you'd like autographed copy by me, they'll be available.
- [85:15]
A
Fantastic. And that would also be the place to check out where you're going to be appearing when you're doing your presentations. I was going to ask you, you mentioned the hand going to Liverpool. Is Ringo going to be following or is it just the hand?
- [85:26]
B
Something I can't talk about. Present.
- [85:29]
A
Okay. I can neither confirm nor deny.
- [85:35]
B
But there seems to be something special about this year being his 85th birthday. Yes, a lot of things are going on. I know he had good plans for his birthday on the 7th in Beverly Hills. And yeah, there's just a lot of other things that are being molded as we speak.
- [85:50]
A
He looks absolutely amazing. And just the fact that he's out there on stage and performing and behind the key kit and recording it is astonishing to consider what we once thought of as age 84, 85, what it means anymore. It's like the sky's the limit with this guy in particular. It's the Beatle thing, Paul just finishing a world tour. It's an incredible thing that nobody could have seen coming and we are all grateful. I think that people need to take a minute to think about how lucky we are to live in this time where there are two Beatles alive, that we can go out. We have the potential to see them at Least if not in person, on tv, they're still productive, they're still doing their thing and how lucky we are.
- [86:33]
B
And Ringo is a life lesson. I wish I could follow it because he's in a lot better shape than I am. But for 84, I mean, he's a vegetarian, he basically eats for fuel, but he's active in exercise and meditation. He's spiritual, his art, he's constantly busy. He's not like, hey, I think I'm just going to hang out in the house and flip channels on television to see if I can find something on Netflix that's not him. But he's always busy. And when I watch him, I keep thinking, why aren't I like that?
- [87:08]
A
Why can't I fit my stage suit?
- [87:11]
B
Yeah, that's a good one. Exactly.
- [87:15]
A
I thought it'd be cool if he were to allow himself to go gray one day. Just took a little patch of brown at the temple. So he'd be like a photo reverse of what he was at 21. That'd be kind of a neat little call out to his past, bringing it full circle. I don't know if he would do that.
- [87:30]
B
That would be cool. That would be a nice touch. I wonder how many people would pick up on that.
- [87:34]
A
Yes, the bright people would.
- [87:37]
B
Funny really, because I never thought, but being middle aged and all takes up most of your time, doesn't it? You're only right. How you doing? I'm going parading before it's too late.
- [87:54]
A
Something about the Beatles created and hosted by Robert Rodriguez executive producer Rick Way Title song performed by the Corgis Something about the Beatles is an evergreen podcast.
- [88:17]
B
I want to close with just saying something. I think I just wanted to get it recorded, even if it's just for your ears. But it's just something I said before. I have so much respect for you. I was really looking forward to doing this today. And out of all of the people that I've gotten to know that are involved in the Beatle world, to me, if you talk to anybody that I'm close with and they ask, who do you really think is like the guy? You know, you're at the top of the list. Just for all the reasons that I told you when we had our conversation, But Robert, I have so much respect for you and I can't even put it in words, but thank you, thank you, thank you for what you're doing. And with you archiving all of this, I mean, it's a true labor of love, right?
- [89:02]
A
I'm not crying. You're crying.
- [89:04]
B
But a lot of times you just think, why are we doing this? Why are we spending so much time on this? But it's important.
- [89:11]
A
It is absolutely important. And I've tried to answer the question why the Beatles So many times. On the most basic of level, it's about how they make us feel. It was true in 63. It's true in 2025. I love the fact that new Beatle fans are being coined every single day. People born decades after the last note they ever played on a record was created, I get to witness that. And then there's people like you who your passion took you in a direction that landed you someplace nobody could have conceived of. And all I can think of is the right guy. When I read your book, I call myself an author. I've got a few books out. You are a guy that was a great fan and amusing and got to be Ringo's drum historian. I love the text that you put together for this book. It's like I can make people think, you make people feel. And it comes through on every single page as you're relating these stories of this stuff. It's very deeply moving. And I never come away from the Gary Astridge experience without feeling moved in some way. So thank you for all you do. It is your gift. You've been sent into the world to do it, and you're doing a hell of a job.
- [90:22]
B
It means a lot coming from you. It surely does. And that's why I wanted I said what I said so I could get you to say what you just said.
- [90:30]
A
It worked.
- [90:34]
B
Thank you. The Helping Friendly podcast explores the music and fan experience of Phish through interviews and deep dives on shows and tours. For more than 10 years, we've created insightful and fun discussions about our favorite band, and with the help of our guests and thematic series, we're still discovering new angles of appreciation for Fish. And when the band is on tour, we provide a review of every show the following day. As one of our listeners said, Any Fish fans that enjoy meandering conversations and incredible insight on new and old fish shows? This is for you. Highly recommend. It's not just about the band and the shows. It's about the journey getting there. Throughout 2024, we're gonna be running down the top 25 fish tours of all time. And that'll be interspersed with show reviews and regular episodes. Join us and check out the Helping Friendly podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Christina Yurling Biro, host of the podcast Pop Culture Confidential Join me as I go way behind the scenes with some of the most influential people in entertainment and media. Here, actors such as Succession's Brian Cox talk about his favorite characters to play. There always has to be a mystery. The audience have to be in a situation where they want to know what's going on. Meet studio execs like Pixar chief Pete Docter and learn his secret on how he makes us cry. Emotion is our first language, and so many others who are defining popular culture, from Obama speech writer David Litt to Top Chef host Padma Lakshmi. We don't often think about food politically or we don't want to, but it really is. Join Me Search for Pop Culture Confidential Wherever you get your podcasts.