306: Beatles Olympiad - Glyn Johns' Get Back with Gary Wenstrup

Summary

Podcast Summary: Something About The Beatles - Episode 306: Beatles Olympiad - Glyn Johns' Get Back with Gary Wenstrup

Introduction

In Episode 306 of Something About The Beatles, hosted by award-winning author Robert Rodriguez, the focus shifts to an intriguing exploration of the Beatles' "Get Back" project as envisioned by renowned producer Glyn Johns. Joined by co-host Glenn Johnson, Rodriguez delves deep into an alternate history where Johns' interpretation of the "Get Back" album is examined in detail. This episode promises an intelligent and entertaining analysis, staying true to the podcast's reputation for being smart, funny, and surprising—much like the Fab Four themselves.

Album Overview

Robert Rodriguez opens the discussion by setting the stage for the episode, introducing the concept of the Sappy Beatles Olympiad. He explains that the episode will explore a parallel universe scenario where Glyn Johns' version of the "Get Back" album is released in the spring of 1969, preceding the well-known "Let It Be" album.

Robert Rodriguez [01:21]: “Well, welcome to the next installment of the sappy Beatles Olympiad. Now, as you can see from the title of the show, listeners, we're doing something maybe a little unexpected, but there is a logic.”

Track Listing and Concept

Rodriguez provides a detailed tracklist from the hypothetical Glyn Johns' "Get Back" album, highlighting how it serves as a bridge between the White Album and Abbey Road. The album is portrayed as a more raw and honest collection, stripping away some of the polished production typically associated with George Martin's influence.

Robert Rodriguez [05:47]: “So I'm going to first read off the track list, just so we're clear here…”

Bronze Medal Selection: "Get Back"

Glenn Johnson selects "Get Back" as his bronze medal choice, commending Ringo Starr's drumming pattern, which he describes as a "rock steady gallop." The discussion focuses on the song's rhythm, lyrical content, and its role within the album's overall concept.

Glenn Johnson [08:33]: “Mine is Get Back.”

Glenn Johnson [09:04]: “I would classify it as a rock steady gallop.”

Robert Rodriguez [12:23]: “It's the secret sauce of that track, for sure.”

Silver Medal Selection: "Let It Be"

Rodriguez shifts focus to "Let It Be," awarding it the silver medal. He praises the song's lyrical depth and the interplay between Billy Preston's organ and George Harrison's guitar solo, despite acknowledging Paul's lyrical frustrations.

Glenn Johnson [46:11]: “...can do a good John Lennon vocal version of Long and Winding Road.”

Robert Rodriguez [47:17]: “...and they set the tone perfectly for the album song.”

Gold Medal Selection: "One After 909"

Johnson surprises listeners by selecting "One After 909" as his gold medal winner. He appreciates the song's evolution over the Beatles' career and its significance as a reflection of their growth as musicians.

Glenn Johnson [60:28]: “A song that took their whole career to get it right.”

Production Choices and Critical Reception

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to analyzing Glyn Johns' production decisions, such as the selection of specific takes and the inclusion of studio chatter. Rodriguez and Johnson debate whether these choices added authenticity or detracted from the album's cohesion.

Robert Rodriguez [36:31]: “Why do you think he selected the takes he selected?”

Glenn Johnson [37:42]: “This time it's serious.”

They contemplate how critics and fans in 1969 might have received this alternate "Get Back" album, considering the absence of the band's known tensions and the potential for the album to serve as a precursor to more polished releases like Abbey Road.

Final Thoughts and Conclusion

As the episode draws to a close, both hosts reflect on the hypothetical nature of Johns' "Get Back" album and its place within the broader Beatles' discography. They acknowledge the enduring fascination with alternate histories in rock music and how such explorations enrich the understanding of the Beatles' creative process.

Glenn Johnson [93:19]: “It's the bridge.”

Robert Rodriguez [85:09]: “This is audio to accompany the film that you see.”

The discussion highlights the complexity of Beatles' production dynamics and the delicate balance producers like Glyn Johns had to maintain. Ultimately, the episode serves as a thought-provoking tribute to the Beatles' enduring legacy and the what-ifs that continue to captivate fans decades later.

Notable Quotes

• Robert Rodriguez [12:23]: “It's the secret sauce of that track, for sure.”

• Glenn Johnson [09:04]: “I would classify it as a rock steady gallop.”

• Robert Rodriguez [47:17]: “...and they set the tone perfectly for the album song.”

• Glenn Johnson [60:28]: “A song that took their whole career to get it right.”

• Glenn Johnson [93:19]: “It's the bridge.”

• Robert Rodriguez [85:09]: “This is audio to accompany the film that you see.”

Conclusion

Episode 306 of Something About The Beatles offers an engaging and in-depth exploration of an alternate Beatles album concept. Through insightful discussions and thoughtful analysis, Robert Rodriguez and Glenn Johnson provide listeners with a fresh perspective on the Beatles' creative journey, blending factual history with imaginative what-ifs. Whether you're a die-hard Beatlemaniac or a casual fan, this episode offers valuable insights into the band's legendary status and the intricate processes behind their timeless music.

Transcript

[Robert Rodriguez]

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[Glenn Johnson]

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[Robert Rodriguez]

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[Glenn Johnson]

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[Robert Rodriguez]

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[Glenn Johnson]

Rico.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Glenn Johnson]

What? Is there a damper on your floor, Tom? Tom? A damper.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Glenn Johnson]

Now, the only damper around here is you, Glenn Johnson.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, welcome to the next installment of the sappy Beatles Olympiad. Now, as you can see from the title of the show, listeners, we're doing something maybe a little unexpected, but there is a logic. So hear us out on this one. Where we last left off with the Olympiad series. We'd done the White Album. We did, like, gold, silver and bronze for disc one and disc two, didn't we?

[Glenn Johnson]

We did indeed.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay. I knew we did something tricky, but it seemed odd then to resume the Olympiad series, jumping straight to Abbey Road.

[Glenn Johnson]

Right, Yeah, I totally understand that logic.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Like going from Beatles For Sale to Revolver or something.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. It's like a bridge too far. It's a completely different group. Everything's upside down. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So it's unnatural. So we decided what better way to bridge the White Album than what had been their intention, their plan, which is.

[Glenn Johnson]

The Get Back project, made perfect sense. It's your idea. And once you said it made perfect sense to me.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay. It seems more organic in terms of development. And I will say that we're going to try to stay within bounds for this discussion in that the 1970 Phil Spector let It Be album does not exist.

[Glenn Johnson]

Absolutely. I've never heard it, Robert.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay, so then, I mean, mine crossed the universe. What is that? We don't know.

[Glenn Johnson]

I don't know.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Because we're in late May, end of May 1969. Now we're focusing for this Olympiad on the. I think it's officially designated the second pass of a Get Back album by Glenn Johns. Right, Right.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yep. That's all we got.

[Robert Rodriguez]

That's all we got. And I will say, too, to put yourself further into context, that kept being announced in Beatles Monthly as the pending album. And they kept pushing back the release date. But as you may recall in Beatles history, one month after the release of the White Album, they were supposed to do three dates at the Roundhouse in London. Right. And that eventually morphed into the Get Back project as some sort of controlled live thing. But they were doing a ticket giveaway for this and I guess they selected winners before they even had a show completely locked down. So at some point, come the spring of 69, you've got all these presumably angry, disappointed, sad fans that say, hey, we won these tickets to nothing. These are conceptual tickets. Thanks, Yoko. And to that end, the Beatles organization, Apple. And I believe I've seen letters signed by Peter Brown. In fact, this is in the deluxe Let It Be booklet, sending promised letters to all these disappointed people that didn't get to see a show because the show didn't happen. You will get a copy of the New Beatles Springtime 1969 Beatles album. Well, guess what?

[Glenn Johnson]

That's a bait and switch.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Uh huh. Twice. But nonetheless, we're going down the parallel universe road of the springtime 1969. Glen John turns in his take on the Get Back project. This collection of tunes, a completely conceptual album being. If you look at Pepper as like the zenith of production, this is the.

[Glenn Johnson]

Anti Pepper as they intended it, as.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Nature intended, and the Beatles as well. In the words of John, none of your production shit George Martin.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, and he's got to regret that.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, what do they say? Something like, this is going to be an honest album. George Martin was like, I was unaware any of our previous collaborations were dishonest.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. Then we see what John Lennon sounds like. Honest.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Glenn Johnson]

He needs George Martin. Thank you.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And what he didn't need ultimately was Glyn John's, for reasons we shall discuss in this show.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think maybe know what I'm alluding to, and if not, I will flesh that thought out.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

All right. So just to set up the listeners for this conversation, it's late spring, early summer, 1969. They may or may not still be working on Abbey Road. Let's say they are. Let's say the cracking of the Liberty Bell didn't happen. Let's say they're staying on point with what their intents were that year before the wheels fell off the cart. So this is the springtime 1969 follow up to the White Album called Get Back. And the release issued is the one Glynn Johns turned in.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay, sounds good.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Now, for the sake of listeners as well, this is further muddying The Waters, I'm afraid I will make available in the newsletter the album we're discussing here. Yeah, I'll send a link to it. Because you're ill served on YouTube. I thought you might be, but I looked into it and looks like certain tracks are not available in certain territories. Specifically the one that I thought. Was it blocked? Let It Be. You couldn't hear it as part of the playlist of the May 1969 Glyn John's thing. To further confuse things, I'm going to try to offer some clarity here. Anybody who bought the. What was it, 2021 let it be deluxe package, which had, you know, the. The Giles tweakings, and it included a Glen Johns issue of Get Back as bonus material.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yep.

[Robert Rodriguez]

That was the 1971. Because that had I, Me, Mine and Across the Universe on it. So we're not talking about that release?

[Glenn Johnson]

Nope.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Again, listeners, you want to hear what we're talking about. If you don't have access to it on your own, write to satb2010mail.com, get on the mailing list, and in return you will get the album we're talking about.

[Glenn Johnson]

No bait and switch here, Robert.

[Robert Rodriguez]

No, no, not for us. We're not Apple. So we're talking about again, one last time. May 1969, Glenn John's version two of the Get Back album. So I'm going to first read off the track list, just so we're clear here, one after 909, rocker, aka I'm ready from Pat's Domino. Save the Last Dance for Me, Don't Let me Down, Dig a Pony, I Got A Feeling, Get Back side one, side two for you, Blue Teddy Boy, Two of Us, Maggie Mae, Dig It, Let it be Long and Winding Road and Get Back Reprise. Or Reprise, depending on what side of the tracks you're from. So there we go. It gives you a good snapshot of what we're going for here in this world. Across the Universe is not made public till December of that year on the no One's Gonna Change Our World charity album. I mean, mine. Who knows what that is? Because it wasn't really cut properly until they decided to include it in the Let It Be film. Is that anything else we need to say?

[Glenn Johnson]

I don't think so. No. I think we're good.

[Robert Rodriguez]

All right, so then let's go with our bronze selection.

[Glenn Johnson]

Great. I'll jump in first. Mine is Get Back.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It should be noted that what appears on this release is Get Back as we know it. Yes, it's the one mix and take and all that as the single. Everything else is like a version of the familiar.

[Glenn Johnson]

And what puts this in my metal category is Ringo's drum pattern.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Is that anything like drumming?

[Glenn Johnson]

All right, all right, I get your point.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Can you put that light?

[Glenn Johnson]

Terms. I always thought that Ringo was playing a shuffle. Turns out, just like my use of language, I'm wrong. It's not a shuffle. It's actually in four, four time. It's a straight rock rhythm. I'm not smart enough to hear it myself, but from what I've researched, he's playing slightly behind the beat. And regardless, to me, I love it and I would classify it. So I'm now going to make up my own terms. Robert. I would classify it as a rock steady gallop.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Is that what Chat GPT told you?

[Glenn Johnson]

No, it told me some things that did not tell me. Rocksteady Gallop. That comes out of my own creativity.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Rocksteady, I love the way you're evoking ska there.

[Glenn Johnson]

I was afraid of that. That might be misconstrued. That's why we put in the gallop. It is a rock steady gallop. And if you wish to discuss this further, we can go on for an hour.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay, very good. A gallop. Because you know what? That's the same term, I believe, if memory serves. And maybe a listener can course correct me on this. But when Gary Astridge was on the show talking about this very thing back in January, didn't he refer to it quoting Ringo as a gallop?

[Glenn Johnson]

I don't know if he did. I don't doubt it for a minute. I will admit it came to me all on my own. Or no, did you say it? Whatever. I don't remember.

[Robert Rodriguez]

One thing, if we want to get jargony here, Ghost notes. That's what makes it.

[Glenn Johnson]

Tell me about that. I've heard of ghost notes, but I can't define it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay, well, listen to the isolation I'm putting into the show. Or you can go to YouTube and pick up on it. But they're the little between beat notes. He plays the drummer who died. Taylor Hawkins. Is that his name? The guy from Foo Fighters? Apparently, somewhere. I don't know if it's Rock and Roll hall of Fame or someplace. They were doing a version of Get Back and he played it the way most people who don't listen that hard or don't remember how the song goes really will play Get Back, which is a straight up, sort of military beat. It's not quite that. It's ghost notes coming before the beat which comes to your point, is snare coming a little behind the beat, but there's ghost notes preceding it. That's what he's doing.

[Glenn Johnson]

So what creates a ghost note?

[Robert Rodriguez]

That's the beats that come.

[Glenn Johnson]

Which sounds like the definition of reggae. Wow. I don't know.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Enough guys get to that point, I'm sure.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, but reggae is all about being on the offbeat. So, anyway, I'm getting way. I. Getting way out of my league. I don't know any of this stuff. Stuff? It's like porn, Robert. I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Does your wife know when she sees you seeing it?

[Glenn Johnson]

Let's not get into my kinky bedroom.

[Robert Rodriguez]

He's doing all kinds of colors here, folks.

[Glenn Johnson]

You better not be taping this stuff. It's Ringo's drum pattern from the first. I don't know, hit of the snare. I'm in.

[Robert Rodriguez]

All right.

[Glenn Johnson]

And obviously it never changes throughout the song. I love that drum pattern.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It's the secret sauce of that track, for sure.

[Glenn Johnson]

And to me, it's not secret. I mean, it's. It's right from the start. It's what makes that song so enticing and engaging.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Sa.

[Glenn Johnson]

So I love the groove that Ringo sets. And I'll talk about, I guess, the other things that I like about it, because there are things I don't care for, which is perhaps why it's my bronze. It sounds like an ensemble work. It sounds like they're all here, they're all contributing. Again, I'm not a musician. To me, John's lead guitar work, it sounds memorable. It's melodic to me, and it's certainly hooky. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I was just going to say melodic. And I can whistle it, you know, I know what's coming sort of thing. As we know, John doesn't ordinarily play lead, so hats off, in my opinion, he pulls it off. Where I get frustrated is in the lyrics. They're just so lazy. I don't know why I was in my head comparing it to something like Day Tripper. Day Tripper is kind of a nice riff, a little bit of a throwaway song, but the lyrics are so clever that it makes it work here. The lyrics to me, are just lazy. JoJo was a man who thought he was a loner. Okay, you know, why are we calling him Jojo? That's weird. But he knew it couldn't last. What the hell does that have to do with being a loner?

[Robert Rodriguez]

You're looking for logic and sense and Meaning I am.

[Glenn Johnson]

And I think that's. I know you can enjoy songs. They don't have to make literal sense, but, gosh, it's a nice bonus when they do. And to have things that are just so tossed off is a real disappointment to me. And then we get into Paul loving his gender fluidity from Obla d Oblada. Desmond stays at home and does his Pretty Face, which is. I recall Paul said he just sang it wrong and they decided to keep it. And so, you know, Sweet Loretta Martin Thought she was a woman but she's another man. What the hell? I don't know it. That. That rubs me the wrong way. And all the. Sorry. All the girls around her said she's got a common. But she gets it while she got. What does that relate to anything? What does that mean? So, as you can tell, I'm frustrated with the lack of attention to the lyrics. So it's still my bronze because it's such an engaging melody, well sung, and Ringo's drum pattern.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, any meaning from art comes from the beholder. And I guess you, as the beholder, have a problem with it, so that's fair enough.

[Glenn Johnson]

I do. But it's still my bronze. So I totally get songs don't have to make literal sense. But again, why not take a shot at making sense?

[Robert Rodriguez]

But if you want to hold Paul as a lyricist to a sense maker, I bet I could find things that you enjoy that make just as little sense.

[Glenn Johnson]

That's probably true. And maybe this speaks to what I referred to, perhaps incorrectly, as an ensemble approach. I think he and John were kicking around lyrics together on this. Why couldn't you see it on? Phil left his home in Arizona Is it at all? Yeah, yeah, Home in Arizona but he knew he couldn't last no, that's not good. But he knew he couldn't last.

[Robert Rodriguez]

JoJo left his home in down, Arizona Joe.

[Glenn Johnson]

Left his home in Tucson, Arizona Tucson in Arizona? Yeah. It's where they make high chaparral. I can make sense of it. Joe hoping it would be a blast. Pretty soon he found that he'd have to be alone or with some California grass, you know? Okay, you make. That makes sense, but doesn't sing good. Looking for a what? What is it? Looking for a Home till last Looking for a. Looking for a Blasphemy, yeah. So why can't John add some clarity or. Or take him. Is it the heroin? I don't know. Why can't he help, you know, deliver Paul to a decent lyric?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Subconscious sabotage.

[Glenn Johnson]

There are a couple more Sabotage moments here. Maybe I'm making too big of a deal out of it, but I also think it's the times, right? This is 1969. We're in the heart of the Vietnam War. We've got, you know, student demonstrations, racial unrest. And I think a lot of people expected. You're laughing. A lot of people expected the, you know, that rock music should address that. It should be of its time. We don't necessarily expect that anymore, but I think back in that time we did. And the fact that it's such a non a throwaway lyric was doubly disappointing.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Look back to their previous single, that was hey Jude at that time. A song of healing during a most tumultuous year, coming right upon some terrible assassinations, bad stuff going on in the war, and just before the events in Chicago at the convention that year, it was like the perfect thing at the perfect time. Now, their ambition for Get Back was nothing more than music to roller coast by. Right as nature intended. So it fits that brief.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, that's a good point. You know, they're supposedly, you know, recording for a live concert setting where lyrics tend to get lost if you don't know the song already. I accept your point. I accept your point. But it doesn't change my opinion that they could have spent some more time on it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Fair enough. But Ringo had a film to make.

[Glenn Johnson]

Given sort of the slapdash nature of this in of these times, I don't sense they would have worked more on the lyrics.

[Robert Rodriguez]

No, perhaps not. Yeah, we'll save commentary on similar quote unquote throwaway lyrics for later releases.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay. And there's ones to come for sure. So that's my bronze with a lot of bitching.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So I will tell you that Jerry Hammock and I, co author of Ribbons of Rust Volume one, we're on the Ranking the Beatles podcast. And if you've ever heard that show, you basically have it presented to you at whatever point the host is in the ranking of things, that's the song you are invited to discuss when you come on the show. And for us it happened to be Get Back. So I think he ranked it 75 within the Beatles catalog of 200 plus tunes. I thought that was about right. I think the thing that justified it that high for me is that it's iconic. It's the Rooftop opener and Closer. It's a song of the moment. And that was the moment.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, and.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And that's taking it as a whole. And I would say, to your point about it being an ensemble performance. John's playing that fantastic lead. It's probably the simplest bass line Paul McCurdy ever committed to vinyl in the Beatles career. Ringo's drumming, as you said, and even George's chops.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Song, all of it is about rhythm and groove. Right.

[Glenn Johnson]

I'm glad you mentioned George, because he. He underplays it. But every strum he hits or chord he hits is perfect.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Authoritative.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And it just makes you wonder because you listen to the pre January 10th through January 10th iterations of that. The rehearsals from its conception a mere three days before, on January 7, after a big blowout argument. And then Paul starts strumming his bass and it appears out of thin air. There's that last take they do where John's sort of taking the lead vocal before they've got the words fully sketched out. And George plays that Wawa solo. Had he not walked out and they spent the next few days working as a three piece. That's when John takes the guitar solo. I wonder what that track would have sounded like had none of that happened and George had stayed in his role.

[Glenn Johnson]

It's an interesting question. So George, throughout this period, plays the Wawa a lot.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And though not on the roof.

[Glenn Johnson]

Though not on the roof. Right. So I don't care for the Wawa in the context of the Beatles songs. It doesn't work for me. What about you? Do you care for it?

[Robert Rodriguez]

You know, he's not doing White Room. There's ways that Wawa was used that as much as we love the song, we may love the Wawa. Right. I do think it's an incredibly dated contrivance, like electric sitar. And I think to his credit, as much as he was flogging that horse during the rehearsals, he pulled back when push came to shove. Rooftop. That's a recording session and he's not going to commit that to violence. Now, obviously, he goes home and writes the song. Wah wah, metaphor for headache. And on that you hear it not as a lead device. It's sort of in the background that wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. You know, so he's not smothering you with it. He's definitely using it tastefully.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. So you like it in small doses, I guess, is what I hear you saying.

[Robert Rodriguez]

In the hands of a practitioner that uses it tastefully. Sure. And not the way he'd been using it throughout the Twickenham sessions.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So where it was like a new toy.

[Glenn Johnson]

So to your mind, he was not using it tastefully in these sessions. And I would agree. I felt he was Applying it left, right and center, whether it made sense or not.

[Robert Rodriguez]

To be fair, though, he wasn't making a record. We only hear it because the Nagras caught it. But as soon as he went into the Apple studios, he's not touting it with abandon on everything they're laying down, it's conspicuously not there.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yes, you're right, you're right.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So anyway, my point was, just had the lead solo part stayed in his hands, would he have used the Wawa? Would that have been its appearance? Because they went in a different direction once it got passed off to John Because Paul was feeling kindly, in John's words. I don't think he even remembered when he said that, how it ended up in his hands, but whatever. Anyway, so one of the things I thought was really cool and revelatory about the Get Back film was seeing the studio takes at Apple Studio and the opening build up before the singing starts. John banging on his strings, not hitting a chord.

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, yeah, I forgot about that.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, that was so cool. It was so mind blowing. It's like, how did they stumble upon that?

[Glenn Johnson]

I forgot about that. That's nice.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. It's not too distant from Paul conceiving the song in the first place, of him strumming on a bass. It's just this sort of percussive rhythm thing building to that.

[Glenn Johnson]

So are you saying that what the film showed you is John's enthusiasm for the song?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, there's that, sure.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And that, again, is an added layer of cachet for it. I get where you're saying it being kind of slight as a composition, but sometimes it's a difference between a great song and a great recording. I think it's a great recording.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't argue it. What about you? What's your bronze?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Ah, my bronze. I would actually, if, as I think about it, maybe the same aesthetic value applies a great recording to me, of A slight Song for your Blue.

[Glenn Johnson]

Tell me more.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Isn't it interesting? All the Harris songs we've got in play that month, this is the one the Beatles seize upon.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And also to parallel Get Back, John.

[Glenn Johnson]

Plays the lead, and I know nothing about slide lap steel guitar, but it sounds like he does an okay job with it, all of it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Again, there's a lot you can say about for your Blue. That is what we just said about Get Back. They all rise to the occasion in the service of this slight composition, Ringo's beat. And in this case, not Paul's bass, but his tack piano.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yes. Which is an interesting Sound. As I was listening, preparing for this, I wonder if I would like it better without the lap steel and without the tac piano. The sounds are just so strong in the song that I sometimes wonder if it gets in the way. And it would have been better with maybe electric guitar fills and more acoustic strumming. I don't know. I'm of two minds on this one.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Now, have you heard the Dark Horse Tour version that was professionally recorded and issued as like a bonus for one of his $5,000 books?

[Glenn Johnson]

No. Tell me about it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So it's a full band performance. Right. And in fact, they stretch it out. I don't know, it feels like 20 minutes, but it's probably not quite that. But everybody gets a solo in it, essentially, including their marimba player. You.

[Glenn Johnson]

Looked at me, that's all you had to do. I love you more than ever guitar of it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It's interesting because it works as a live groove. It doesn't have the same feel at all. In 69, he said he was writing a Skiple song. And this is not that. But anyway. It just shows how once again you can take a song and take it in a different direction and it still works.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yes, yes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But that couldn't be any more simple from lyrics to chord structure and all that. The fact that the Beatles on the fly colored it so beautifully, you know, where did that lap steel come from?

[Glenn Johnson]

Great question.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And John, of all people seizes it.

[Glenn Johnson]

That's a great question. I've never thought about it because it's not been on a Beatles record. It's not even been close to being on a Beatles record. And why John? Well, I think George is. Wasn't it George who commented it was the only way to keep John interested was to give.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think it was a hindsight observation.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay, okay. That's an excellent question. Where the hell did it come from?

[Robert Rodriguez]

All of a sudden wave the shiny object and there it is.

[Glenn Johnson]

And John would like shiny objects. Right? That makes sense.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You ever notice that it's on the rooftop?

[Glenn Johnson]

I don't know. What do you mean? What's on the rooftop?

[Robert Rodriguez]

It's on the rooftop. If you look at like high angle shots of the rooftop setup, it's there in the background.

[Glenn Johnson]

I had no idea of that. So. So you think they thought about possibly. Or did Mal just put it up there? That's interesting.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It is interesting. It's a what if. But he had already said he didn't want to do any of his songs on the roof. Although that one would have been eminently.

[Glenn Johnson]

Pull offable Pull offable. I don't know. It doesn't have enough electric guitar bite, I think, to work on the roof.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But it might have been more like the Dark Horse version.

[Glenn Johnson]

It wouldn't have been 20 minutes. It was too cold up there.

[Robert Rodriguez]

That's true. So, anyway, that's my bronze. I don't know what else there is to say about it other than. Okay. We should point out this. The version on the Glyn Johns record is a bit different from the one we eventually came to know in that George recut the vocal in January 1970. He threw in those interjections. Go, Johnny, Go. There go the 12 Hour Blues, Elmore James, all that. So that's not on the Glenn Johns one.

[Glenn Johnson]

Right. And I believe another difference, correct me if I'm wrong, is the false start correct. That exists on this version, which is. It's fun. It's kind of like that false start from I'm Looking through you. Once you hear it, you kind of dig it and you kind of miss it when I hear the other version of it. So I get a kick out of the false start.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Totally.

[Glenn Johnson]

I have to agree. To me, it is slight, pleasant, but unnecessary. You make a good point. You make me reconsider because of the addition of the lap steel and the tack piano, that it's an ensemble work and they were all into it and wanted to lift it to a higher level. You make a really good point with that.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Thank you. But not until this conversation did it strike me that everything we said about Get Back is equally applicable here.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yes. Yes. One thing we didn't mention about Get Back, you know, it is the title song and it lives up to what the intention of the Get Back project was. So it's like the perfect. I don't know. Sets the tone perfectly for the album song. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

In a way that they already had. The concept of just us, a four piece getting back to rock and roll. There's that moment where Paul confronts John about, hey, you're going to step up with some new material. And they still have it in their head at that point that we're going to. We're pursuing rockers for a stage presentation. And unfortunately, between Paul and George, the two most prolific at that point, they keep coming up with these ballads.

[Glenn Johnson]

The winner of their discontent is leading to ballads.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, yeah. Interesting that. But I think George saw the writing on the wall that All Things Must Pass was not going to cut it. And they came up with this slight. Probably too harsh to call it a piece of nothing. It works for Its intent, which is to be a Skipple song. It got them all engaged.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. And it's a B side. And it works as a B side.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay, so let's move to My Silver, which is Let It Be. One of the things that strikes me as I listen to this. And maybe we'll sort of get to it. There is a lot of throwaway stuff on this and a lot of things that feel half finished.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Are you talking about the album or this track?

[Glenn Johnson]

The album. Okay, the album. I'm sorry. Some of it I would call out and out junk. Some of it feels half finished and some of it feels like a work in progress. So to my ears, there's only four real complete, thought through songs here. And I'm pulling from the songs that I feel are thought through and complete.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You're talking about the recording as Glen John's turned in.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yes. Yes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And we said, we're not gonna compare it to the 1970 Let B album.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So you're just hearing this as a fan in 1969, and you might be wondering, well, gee, this is a promising start to something. Too bad they didn't finish it off.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yes, I totally agree with what you just said. And, you know, maybe, and I wanted to talk about this with you. What would the reception have been to this had it been released? And perhaps what would have colored it is the thought of live performances that if we knew that was coming and this is just a precursor to it, or it's released simultaneously, then it wouldn't have felt so incomplete.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Right. Unfinished Music Number Three.

[Glenn Johnson]

But because the live performances didn't happen and in our imaginary world this album comes out, I would have thought, gee, guys, there's not much here.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And you wonder if the film had come out in 1969 in whatever cut. So they were released a year early. The group is still together. It's not the breakup film and album. Would it have been accepted in that context as sort of an experimental conceptual? This is a soundtrack like the Monkey's Head. I don't think anybody saw that as like a real album. It's six songs and excerpts from the film. This is sort of approaching that notion. And that's issued six months earlier. The Monkeys was. Sounds like a lot of supernatural baloney to me.

[Glenn Johnson]

Supernatural, perhaps. Baloney, perhaps not.

[Robert Rodriguez]

The thing about Glenn John's vision, here's a guy with a million dollar career. He was no idiot, he was no wannabe. He was a guy that delivered the goods over the course of his career, given people to work with that were Taking it seriously. The who and the Stones. You Chiefly Zeppelin.

[Glenn Johnson]

Eagles.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, Eagles. Right. Until they decided they want to be rockers. And he's like, I know rockers. You guys aren't rockers.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Anyway, so in trying to. Clearly in the service of delivering what the Beatles brief was, warts and all.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

No production. This is just us and. Oh, now we got Billy. So now we got a five piece. He's delivering this audio verite them in the studio and what that is like. So you have the oldies, you've got the jams, you've got the false starts. But he's a little too on point with that. And I think that's ultimately why the Beatles rejected it. That's why you've got all these, like you say, these songs that should have been finished, judging from what you hear there. And the biggest rap against his work is he picked these inferior takes of songs when he had in his hand. Masterful, ready for the public versions. He could have used the keepers from the rooftop. Instead he only used one. The Dig a Pony and I've got a feeling that you hear on this are lousy compared to what they did on the rooftop. Ditto two of us on the last day of January, they deliver the takes of that. He picks an earlier one. It's acoustic, but they're still sort of feeling their way.

[Glenn Johnson]

Absolutely. So why do you think he selected the takes he selected?

[Robert Rodriguez]

The only thing that makes sense is that he was trying to stay closer to the concept of this Is Us a work in progress. And oh, by the way, this is coming out the same time as the film. Right. Because that's what he'd been told.

[Glenn Johnson]

But this is already his second version of a potential release.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Right.

[Glenn Johnson]

So you would have thought. I haven't listened to the first version. Have you listened to the first version?

[Robert Rodriguez]

The first version is only slightly different. This one's a little bit more realized.

[Glenn Johnson]

So you would think he would have gotten feedback from them unless they were totally had enough of it by this point.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I'm not sure what he was told, honestly.

[Glenn Johnson]

If he got.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I'm sure maybe it exists somewhere.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But this is what he gave them, so it must have been in response to what he understood the plan to be.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. So one of the things. Again, we're not going to do a compare and contrast, but if this just existed and came out as is. One of the things that I do think is striking about it is all the studio chatter.

[Robert Rodriguez]

More, please.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay. This time it's serious.

[Robert Rodriguez]

This time it's.

[Glenn Johnson]

I remember your wal. You're three, four. I'm 56. There a letter for you, John. It seems to be something called Doris, do your thing, man. I'm doing it all the time. I can't keep up it. Okay, what is it? 1, 2, 3, 4. Oh, no. What are we doing? It's gonna be down. Yeah. Is that what we do? I was just into. Yeah, lots of. Yeah, lots of studio chatter. And I think when you hear that, it communicates to me. The Beatles are having fun. They're getting along, they're vamping, they're making each other laugh.

[Robert Rodriguez]

A very different narrative than we associate with this very same project.

[Glenn Johnson]

That's exactly where I'm going. And I don't know what effect that could have had going forward. Could it have kept them together a little longer? The sense of fun that comes through on this recording? I kind of doubt it, but it really does set a different tone and I would say a positive tone as a listener.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Sure, for sure. It's a great, great concept. This is us working in progress. In fact, the thought I had, they put the finished master of Get Back on it. As we talked about ending side one. It would have been interesting. I could understand why they didn't, because all they had was Nagris from Twickenham. They didn't have any multi track recordings. But if they had an embryonic version of Get Back to stick on the album to show the progress or Two of Us, the electric version, that could have put a snippet on there. And then side two, you hear the fully realized acoustic take. Something like that would have been really underscoring a concept of this is how we develop material in the studio. They could have taken that idea and really thought it through and made the presentation that much more thoughtful.

[Glenn Johnson]

That's interesting. It almost is like an official bootleg. And maybe this kind of acts as an official bootleg. That's an interesting idea because I get a kick out of them trying different tempos for the two of us. And it would have been fun to hear them sort of on the album together. I would have enjoyed that. So let me stick with this for a minute and get. If this album had come out as we're pretending, what do you think the critics would have said? How do you think you as a fan would have felt?

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think presentation is everything and context is everything. And if was underscored that this is sort of a thought experiment coming off the heels of not the White Album, but John's two experimental albums to that point. George's soundtrack and Then electronic sound that the Beatles are playing around with expectations and putting out stuff that's esoteric compared to their uber commercial, formally endorsed by George Martin stuff. You know, maybe they could have even put it out on Zapple. Seriously. I know that's interesting because that would have signified. Hey, don't take this for a real Beatle album.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. I'm going to pose the question again. How would you as a listener have felt if this was the version that they released as an album?

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think that it would have established a precedent. Like you said, they're sort of bootlegging themselves. And this is right at the dawn of the bootleg era, right?

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. Right.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Liver than you'll ever be Great White Wonder Come back Sweet Toronto. All that sort of nascent bootlegging as we knew it that emerged within a year of this. Right. So later on, the Stones put out that Jamming With Edward record, which is sort of the same thing. Tapes are running. They were goofing around in the studio. It's not a real Stones record. But we're going to put this out because if you are fans, you might find it interesting.

[Glenn Johnson]

So you would have been engaged and pleased with this as the next Beatles album.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I was engaged and pleased with every bootleg I bought back in the day. But here's the thing. If before I heard one note of it, as with so much Beatle prod, product, collective and Separate, I read about it first in Illustrated Record. And if they savaged it, that probably would have been my mindset.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

If they were like, this is the boldest artistic statement from a group of their stature, I would have thought, oh, cool, the Anti Pepper. But it's the Beatles, so it's cool. And what a groundbreaking, brave thing they did. Now, you think of other. We've talked about this on the show before, I think, or at least I've had this thought before, about other people had put out what were essentially live albums as studio albums. And I'm talking about Running On Empty. It was a collection of live material issued for this first time, recorded in a variety of settings. Some concerts, some on the bus, some at hotel, whatever. Russ Never sleeps, you know, it's in fact before an audience, but it's not a live album. Big World Joe Jackson. Shh. Everybody wait till the song is well over before you applaud if you must, but it's. It's live to two track or whatever. So they're way ahead of the curve and coming out with. We're gonna put out live, setting all new Material. Although the live setting, they didn't end up with the concerts. It ended up on the rooftop. And live to them didn't necessarily mean audience as much as it meant roll the tape. We're not gonna cheat. Edit, overdub, sweeten.

[Glenn Johnson]

So that poses the question. I'm sure others have thought about this, as have you. So what would have been the perfect solution is a live rooftop album like.

[Robert Rodriguez]

40 minutes worth or 30 minutes.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yes, I get it. I get it's cold up there. And you know, maybe we wouldn't have had Let It Be and Long and Winding Road, but that would check a lot more boxes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Glenn Johnson]

To have a live recording with rough edges, etc. But it would have been much more acceptable.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, it would have been.

[Glenn Johnson]

Critics wouldn't have savaged it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, in its way. Would have been more conventional. Right. Because it's a concept. There's precedent for. Everybody understands, oh, we get a live album. The twist would be they're doing it on a rooftop without a real audience. They're not doing it on concert stage. But it is all live, un overdubbed, straight out of the barrel performances. And Right.

[Glenn Johnson]

New material.

[Robert Rodriguez]

If they. If all new material. Yes. And let's say they could stomach being on a January rooftop for an hour, just as they did alternate takes of some of the songs that fell short.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

If they were able to sustain themselves for a dozen songs. And you know, you've got the conversations on tape before they go up there. How many songs we got have we got? Our magic number of 14. And they're throwing in there stuff like all things must pass. What would a rooftop version of that sound like?

[Glenn Johnson]

Whoosh.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Glenn Johnson]

Hard to imagine, really.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, just as everything rose to the occasion, things that they'd done half assed to that point suddenly come alive.

[Glenn Johnson]

Well, that's interesting.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Glenn Johnson]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want is a great feeling. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can choose to bundle and save with the personal price point. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Coverage options are selected by the customer.

[Glenn Johnson]

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[Robert Rodriguez]

Eligibility vary by state.

[Glenn Johnson]

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[Robert Rodriguez]

The Vitals app tracks key overnight metrics.

[Glenn Johnson]

So you can spot changes in your health before you feel them. The Vitals app on Apple Watch. IPhone Xs are later required. The Vitals app is for wellness purposes only. And not for medical use.

[Robert Rodriguez]

The adrenaline.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. All right, so we did a little detour there, but so my silver is. Let it be. One of the reasons being it feels like a complete song as opposed to a work in progress. I know we're not gonna do a compare and contrast, but I'm gonna make. I'm gonna cheat just this once. I love this milder, quieter, gentler version. Sorry, I won't do it anymore. I apologize. But I really like this version.

[Robert Rodriguez]

What is this non gentle version of which you speak? Gary Wenstrup.

[Glenn Johnson]

I know you're pointing. I'm a cheater. I know I won't do it again.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I have.

[Glenn Johnson]

I. It's a beautiful lyric. I mean, just the phrasing, the imagery, words of wisdom, my hour of darkness. And I've always, I don't know, felt a sense of uplift. And when the night is cloudy there's still a light that shines on me Shine until tomorrow. Wow. That's awesome. It's beautiful.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It's a great lyric.

[Glenn Johnson]

It's beautiful.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I will tell you this, though.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, I'm not exactly cheating by referencing the 1970 album here. What I'm referencing is the film I always found incredibly moving. The performance where he sings There will be no sorrow. Let it be, Let it be, Let it be.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. Let it be.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Let it be.

[Glenn Johnson]

Huh.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I don't know why that line has grabbed me so much.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But it's like, damn, I wish he would have stuck with that.

[Glenn Johnson]

I don't. I'm happy either way. I'm not. I. I'm. I guess I want to hear more. Why does that line have so much resonance for you?

[Robert Rodriguez]

I don't know why.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay. It just does.

[Robert Rodriguez]

If I'd heard it 10 million times in my lifetime, maybe it wouldn't have. Maybe because it jumps out as though it is underscored. Because that's the one. Only time we ever hear him sing that. Maybe. But every time, that's the thing that gets me moved. Whenever I see that song, which, honestly, I can't speak to the 1970 version in this context. This version here, I like it. I respect it. Is it my top 20? Probably not.

[Glenn Johnson]

The other thing that I like about it is I like the interplay between Billy Preston's organ and George's guitar solo. And it's a little wawa. The solo in this recording, I feel they melt.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You mean Leslie.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, but it's got a wawa feel to it. To me.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay, so you mean that sort of tremolo Y.

[Glenn Johnson]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay.

[Glenn Johnson]

It almost sounds organ like. And so I find that the guitar and the organ and Paul's piano, it's a nice melding of sounds that feel comfortable and feel like they're playing together. I really like how George and Billy Preston in particular meld with each other on this song.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It really speaks to their rehearsing this material into the ground, doesn't it?

[Glenn Johnson]

Mm.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Because we're talking a very narrow window, this stuff came together. And even narrower still where Billy Preston is there tamping down his wildest organ.

[Glenn Johnson]

In town, and while. And how quickly he's delivering the goods on the fly. Yeah, yeah. Oh, I do want to ask you, have you talked about it on the show? You probably have this. Mother Mary versus Brother Malcolm.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I always thought the Brother Malcolm thing was just meant to be a joke. I know that Mel swore that Paul was inspired by him in a dream and that was the story he took to his grave. I don't think. I know that. Paul revises origin stories all the time, but he stayed pretty consistent with his mother coming to him in a dream. And honestly, if Mel Evans came to you in a dream.

[Glenn Johnson]

You'D want. You'd want to push the anvil out of your bed.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, Right. There you go. Be a different milieu completely. So, yeah, I'm inclined to take Paul's word on this one.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay, sounds good. So that's my silver. What is your silver, Robert?

[Robert Rodriguez]

My silver is Long and Winding Road.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay, I'm surprised, but tell me more.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay, well, to your point about things sounding fully realized in this collection, it does have that going for it now. It is the take that Spectre ended abusing. Now, some have argued there were better takes he could have used, and I tend to agree. But it's got the elements that you don't. Well, okay, we're not. We're not talking about 1970, but what I do like about it is the little spoken interlude.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, I don't like it. I. Tell me why you like it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Because Alan Parsons likes it.

[Glenn Johnson]

All right, then tell me more.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Do you like that ending that we are less familiar with, that little piano bit?

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, I do. I do. It works for me.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Huh.

[Glenn Johnson]

It's not unlike tacking on Her Majesty after the end. It sort of puts a little pinhole in whatever inflated seriousness was there. It just pokes a little bit of fun. And I feel like that little piano coated just pokes a little bit of fun. It just. It. It just is a little bit of a smile at the end of the song to my ears.

[Robert Rodriguez]

That's a good way of looking at it.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay, back to the spoken interlude. And I apologize. I think I interrupted you. Why does that work for you?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Because it's such an odd thing for a Beatle to do. It's almost like self mockery. Before this gets a little too maudlin.

[Glenn Johnson]

And he cuts it off almost immediately. He does like one line and a half and then drops it. Yeah, but that's kind of why you like it. It's just the left fieldness of it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Uh huh. Yeah. That it's like, lest this get too soppy, I'm going to tip my hand here, that I'm just playing a role here.

[Glenn Johnson]

And I feel the opposite. I feel when he starts speaking that it's making it more soppy. And so that's how I hear it. And when he starts doing that, I'm immediately taken back to the Elvis song.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Oh, are you lonesome tonight?

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. Are you lonesome tonight? So the minute Paul goes there, I'm like, oh, geez. And I like it in the Elvis song. It works for me. But I don't. I don't want to hear it again like Elvis did it. Fine, let's leave it alone.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You remember that Partridge Family song?

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, my goodness. I have no idea where you're going now. What are you talking about?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Doesn't somebody want to be wanted? Is that the one where he does the spoken interlude that David Cassidy tried to walk out on that session, but they shoved it down his throat?

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, my gosh. I have no idea. Vaguely rings a bell. I have no idea.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Where is love? I gotta know.

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, my goodness. Well, we've met. You've managed to bring the monkeys into this. And now the Partridge Family. What's next? I'm afraid it's the implicit bubble gum of this album. All right, so you kind of like that spoken bit.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I do. And you know it works in this form.

[Glenn Johnson]

Absolutely, yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I don't want to acknowledge the following year too much.

[Glenn Johnson]

Right. And perhaps we'll get there.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, yeah. I just never knew how sincere Paul's distaste on the finished product actually was.

[Glenn Johnson]

Right. And as we've discussed, Paul said to somebody, and we got this on good authority, that it was all about business, that he didn't necessarily have issues with it musically. He was just making a business statement because of all the friction with Alan Klein at the time.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Right. Artistic meddling.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. You say the song works in this setting? I couldn't agree with you more. It's about, I think Paul may have said it's about the unattainable. You know, it's the door you never quite reach. And it's the human condition. Right. We always want or yearn or long for something we don't have or have enough of. Love, money, peace of mind, happiness. And it's. You know, you could make a case that living is a perpetual state of longing. And this song would be the theme song for it. I mean, it's just so beautifully laid out and conceptualized. I in particular, love the bridge. Many times I've been alone and many times I've cried. Because to me there's a feeling of self pity in it, a feeling of woe. And I think we all feel that. I think that's a very human emotion. That because we're in our own heads, we don't think others appreciate all of our work or all of our yearning. And I think the song is beautifully realized.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay, that's good. I haven't thought that deeply about the words, to be honest. It's more the sound of it. And thematically. Okay. A long and winding road an arduous thing A slog if you were. As it were.

[Glenn Johnson]

Speaking of lyrics, I mean, to me, the wild and windy night that the rain washed away. That's really cool. A wild and windy night and then maybe, you know, it's kind of a drizzly rain that follows it. That's really cool.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It evokes all things must pass.

[Glenn Johnson]

It does. It does.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Away.

[Glenn Johnson]

Are you saying there's a connection?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Oh, I don't know. I'd be just like. If you look hard enough, which certainly Beatle fans do. Once there was a way to get back home. On our way back home, there's sort of these same themes and subcurrents that are popping up all over the place. Lead me to your door. It just seems like there are certain things. I mean, we're talking about pop music, so the number of ideas are gonna be finite and limited to begin with.

[Glenn Johnson]

But.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But it seems at this period, maybe there's a narrower scope.

[Glenn Johnson]

Well, actually, to your point, Abbey Road, right? Side one and side two come together and here comes the sun. Both start with the same line. Here comes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Uh huh. So as a Sun King.

[Glenn Johnson]

As does Sun King, indeed. I want to go back to the wild and windy night that the rain washed away.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And really it was. There goes.

[Glenn Johnson]

I'm sorry.

[Robert Rodriguez]

They were making their exit.

[Glenn Johnson]

The wild and windy night that the rain washed away has left a pool of tears and crying for the day. I don't know if that's mixed metaphors. Or what. But I think that's a really cool feeling. Image has left a pool of tears Crying for the day like endless rain.

[Robert Rodriguez]

In a paper cup.

[Glenn Johnson]

Wow. You're gonna keep going with this one for a while, aren't you?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, all right, You've convinced me. It is.

[Glenn Johnson]

No, it's not. It's human. It's human emotion. It's straightforward human emotion. So this is your silver and perhaps you can tell it's my gold.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You know what interesting. We always hear that whole business about, well, John, I should have sang oh, darling. What if he had sung Long and Winding Road? This confessional thing.

[Glenn Johnson]

Wow.

[Robert Rodriguez]

What if he'd done it all bare bones and piano? Especially since he copped that dun dun, dun, dun. For how.

[Glenn Johnson]

Wow. That's a really interesting thought experiment.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I would love. I know there are people that completely lose their minds when you say the two letters AI.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But I bet somebody could work up a good John Lennon vocal version of Long and Winding Road.

[Glenn Johnson]

I love the idea and. But I will submit to you. I'll bet he does a great version. And I think Paul does a great. It's a great song.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And I want to hear Paul sing how do you sleep?

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, boy, that's so nasty. Well, we'll get to it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It can be done.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, we can get there eventually and.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Then sing it in the first person. So sergeant Pepper took me by surprise.

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, that'd be funny, that. Actually.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I should have seen right through that mother's eyes.

[Glenn Johnson]

That would be a. Have been a great retort to do it live and sing it in the first person. That would have been right.

[Robert Rodriguez]

100%.

[Glenn Johnson]

That would have been right back in his face. Wow. Nice. Nice. All right. So that's my gold, and that's your silver. Which leaves us to your.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Oh, that was your goals.

[Glenn Johnson]

That's my goal. Long and winding Road.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So what is your gold one after 909.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

A song that took their whole career nail.

[Glenn Johnson]

Because they tried it back in 1963 and they didn't care for it. That's. That's a funny way of putting it. It took their whole career to get it right.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And in 60, the fourth on road tapes in ribbons of rust.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

With Stew.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Boogie with Stew. Yeah. So I will tell you that. Well, no, I won't tell you, because Let it be doesn't exist.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But I will say this.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Even stuff where the same masters were used on the Glen Johns version, there is mixing variations that I think were improved upon subsequent to this.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay. Okay. I understand. What you're saying without saying it. Anything else in particular you like about the song?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Just that it's too bad that this is really all you get of the Rooftop on here. Because to your earlier point, they could have put out the superior. Well, again we're comparing things you don't know about. But as a concept it's good. But it's interesting that he sort of wraps it up because he ends one after nine. Oh, nine, as presented here as the album opener.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

With thanks. Hope we pass the audition.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. What do you make of that?

[Robert Rodriguez]

That I guess he was wanting to cover the subject of Rooftop before then going back into the studio.

[Glenn Johnson]

I don't know. It certainly feels out of context, doesn't it?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, because we know what we know.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

In spring of 69 we would have known. Hey, the Beatles did something on a rooftop.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, I guess you're right. You're right. I was sort of faulting it for where he sequenced it. But you're right, we don't know the other sequence. Good point.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. Well. So what do you think about the rest of it as a whole?

[Glenn Johnson]

The rest of the song?

[Robert Rodriguez]

We talked about the half assed versions that ended up.

[Glenn Johnson]

I want to talk about the song for just a minute. Can I talk about song for a minute?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay.

[Glenn Johnson]

Because I do have a question for you on it. What I like about it. And actually, until last night, this was my bronze. I liked that it was ragged, that it's fun, it's kind of rollicking, it's loose. It's another ensemble piece. You hear the enthusiasm, they're having a good time. It comes through. You hear it loud and clear. And the reason I liked it and initially wanted to make it my bronze, but then Ringo's Shuffle, if that's what it is, and get back changed my tune. I do have a question for you.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay.

[Glenn Johnson]

They may have taken their entitled career to get the music right, but what the hell is going on in the lyric? Is he waiting for her? Is he on the train with her? He's running home. What is going on here?

[Robert Rodriguez]

It's a perfect example of words that sound great and he sings them with conviction. I don't even know if he knows what it meant. It just. It has something to do about a miscommunication and a train.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

That's all. I put my finger out.

[Glenn Johnson]

I can't figure anything out. You know. Move over once more, twice. But you're only fooling around. You're only fooling around with me. Okay. I Mean, the lines by themselves work and you make a good point. He sings it well and sings it with conviction, he and Paul. Because Paul doubles him in a lot of places. Yeah, he sings it well. He sings it with conviction. But, you know. Well, maybe I'm a broken record. I would like songs to make sense. I don't think that's too much to ask that a song makes sense and this one doesn't make a damn bit of sense.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Deliver a message in 1969 the world's on Fire.

[Glenn Johnson]

All right, all right. So you were. Oh, the only other thing there is Billy Preston's keyboards in this, which are a little muted.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yes. I'll leave it. Thank you for saying it.

[Glenn Johnson]

I'll leave it at that. It's a little.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Compared to what, Gary.

[Glenn Johnson]

I don't know what you're talking about, Robert. Right, okay. So you wanted to go somewhere else, but I wanted to get in a couple of comments about 909.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You would have thought that Glenn Johns would have maybe taken seriously. This is a five man band right now. Let's hear everybody.

[Glenn Johnson]

Hmm. I can't argue with that. Point well taken.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But then, you know what? I've had that thought about other records like I'll say A Little Prayer, Aretha's version.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

The backing singers carrying key parts of the song sound muted compared to her. Like they could have and should have come up in the mix.

[Glenn Johnson]

I'd have to. I love that song. I love her version of it. I'd have to go back and listen to it. I don't know. I don't know.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. It's always kind of bothered me is that they're kind of smothered a little bit.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And they should be just as bright, but whatever. Anyway. Yeah, to your point. Yes, it should have. It could have been mixed differently, but whatever.

[Glenn Johnson]

One of the things that's missing on this version, on this album is George Harrison's backing vocals. Does he contribute a backing vocal to any song? I don't think he does. And if we go with what John says, that he was the invisible singer in the Beatles or whatever that comment was, that he made the inaudible singer. The inaudible singer. That's something that's missing here. Having George's background vocals mixed in.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I always thought it was kind of conspicuous when seeing the Let It Be film of them doing Don't Let Me down and you see him belting out the choruses. George. But you never hear him. You know what I'm talking about.

[Glenn Johnson]

No, I don't. It's in the film.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Next time you watch any bit of footage from Get Back when they're doing Don't Let Me Down. There he is with gusto on the mic for the choruses.

[Glenn Johnson]

And.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And yet you're like, huh?

[Glenn Johnson]

But on the rooftop. Is he. He's not saying yes. On the rooftop. He is.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You don't hear him, but you see him.

[Glenn Johnson]

Huh. I'd have to go back and look at it. Okay, you're right. I don't hear him.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. Right, Right. So I don't know what that was about.

[Glenn Johnson]

One other just random comment I've read through the years that John for Don't Let Me down, had said to Ringo to an ice beak for me, you know, give me the courage to come screaming in. 1, 2, 3, 4. Don't let me down.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Don't let me down.

[Glenn Johnson]

And I've heard people talk about it, but here's the version that contains it. The Glyn Johns version contains it. And we're not doing compare and contrast. It's notable that Ringo does come in with a great crash as John starts to sing. It's nice to kind of hear it in one place here.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. Is it better than the release version?

[Glenn Johnson]

We're not going there because we don't know. It doesn't exist, Robert.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, there's a reason that it didn't end up getting a medal.

[Glenn Johnson]

Ah. Foreshadowing.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Uhhuh.

[Glenn Johnson]

You. Which is an excellent point. Because if we. If I knew what's coming, which I don't.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Right.

[Glenn Johnson]

There will be different. Different medal winners.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, exactly. That. That should be understood by listeners that. Whatever ranking here. That's for this release.

[Glenn Johnson]

There you go.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Not anything resembling it.

[Glenn Johnson]

I have. Here's another thought that I'm curious your take on. I have not given this a lot of thought, so if you press me, I might get lost. But we've talked before, if not on this podcast, on our other podcast, Classic Rock album Olympics, about sequencing. And what is the deal with sequencing, Let It Be and Longing Winding Road back to back? It makes no flipping sense.

[Robert Rodriguez]

No.

[Glenn Johnson]

Only if you were like, no, it doesn't, or no, you disagree.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I thought that was a really bad idea.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Now, in his sequencing, you've got two of us flowing into Maggie May. I get the whole acoustic thing, very different flavors, but in my head, that's valuable Beatle real estate you're giving up to put Maggie May on anything that I easily would have ditched in favor of a million other things I can think of.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, yeah. No argument for me.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I Would say the same for Dig It. But to circle back to your point about George the invisible singer, there are other edits of that song from Apple Studio where George is doing like a counterpoint vocal. You know what I'm talking about?

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, I do. I. I know Paul does that. Does George do it as well? What can you give it? D Give it. What can you give it? Well, I can tell. Take it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay.

[Glenn Johnson]

You can give it if you want it. And if you want it, you can get it. Come on, come on, come on, come on.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Paul does the. Dig it up. Dig it up. Dig it up.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay, okay. Yeah, okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But George is actually kind of duetting with John at a moment. And once I became aware that existed, probably at some point from picking up a bootleg, I was like, that at least is musically interesting again. I would happily ditch Maggie May and Dig it in favor of either a more interesting version of Dig it, including the one where John recites the title of every song that they've worked on.

[Glenn Johnson]

Don't Let Me down get back I got a feeling Two of us All I want to do Teddy Mudd one after nine oh nine all things must pass Dig It Let it be the long unwinding road for you Blue Match well, super Hammer up.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But the one we got is not optimum interesting to me.

[Glenn Johnson]

It's absolutely not. It's four minutes of, in my opinion, John looking for a song. He's rooting around to see if there's anything here and there ain't nothing there.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Little goes a long way to put it one way.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. The one that really got under my skin and rubbed me the wrong way in this record is Teddy Boy. To me, it. I. It qualifies as junk.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Sorry, Paul, I'd rather have Junk.

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, absolutely. I love Junk. I think Junk is a really well thought through song.

[Robert Rodriguez]

John really loved Junk that year.

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, yeah. But Teddy Boy is painful to hear Paul perform it and just as painful to hear John making fun of it. What struck me though, as I was listening to it most recently, it does not distract Paul. John, as you know, John's doing Do Si do and you grab your partner and spin around sort of thing in the middle of the song. But it does not distract Paul from continuing the song. So that says something to me about the strength of Paul's convictions, that even as John is making a complete mockery of his song, Paul is not dissuaded from trying to see it through.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And that is well placed on that song. I will tell you that. Re listening to this in prep for this show. What got a little annoying to me was the constant comic interjections throughout the course of the album. A joke doesn't get funnier the more times you tell it. And so to enshrine this stuff as a Beatle record would not, I think, have well, served them. I mean, you could have enough to give the flavor, but not in every other track.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. Yes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And in this case, I think John was sort of speaking for the listeners. And. Can we end this quickly, please?

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And Paul's just plowing full speed ahead. You know, I guess it worked out. Glenn could have put she came in through the bathroom window on this, which they had perfectly usable takes recorded at Apple Studio that ended up on Anthology later on. And that would have cost us a significant part of the Abbey Road medley down the road. Right.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So it probably worked out for the best in that sense.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. And, you know, John accused Paul of subconscious sabotaging of his work. There's nothing subconscious. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like straight at it, which. And maybe that's the way the dynamic worked, that John's like, oh, my God, this is awful. Forget it. As opposed to. Is there anything I could offer here to elevate this song?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Right.

[Glenn Johnson]

You know, is there any. Is there anything I could bring here that might work?

[Robert Rodriguez]

I see Maxwell as being misplaced anger and disdain that should have been applied to Teddy Boy, except he didn't force the issue and try to get it onto Abbey Road.

[Glenn Johnson]

Actually, you can take them both, throw them out the window.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, just in terms of this mythology about Paul made us do that song and rehearse it into the ground. And we spent more time and money on that song because Paul wanted to be single. All of which is they spent one less day on it than they did on Octopus's Garden.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay. Well, I mean, Ringo. Poor Ringo has said it's the worst recording you ever had to slog through or something.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Oh, yeah. Had he been through rehab when he said that?

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, boy, I don't know. But Ringo had issues with it as well. It wasn't just John.

[Robert Rodriguez]

He had issues with Ram.

[Glenn Johnson]

I know.

[Robert Rodriguez]

There's not a single tune on that.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, okay. I understand, Mr. Back off, Boogaloo. All right. We're. We're kind of. We're kind of throwing darts right and left here. Any other, I don't know, thoughts or songs that you want to talk about here, or have we.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I would have liked this personally, with more oldies.

[Glenn Johnson]

Why? Because, I mean, clearly it's something I asked you what I Asked you a question, and then while you're composing your answer, I'm jumping right on top of you before. So go ahead, give your answer.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Just because we know that this is stuff that they often knew like the back of their hand. It's where their heart lie. These guys were such fans of early rock and roll and connoisseurs, you know, B sides and weird songs that never charted and things like that. They really, really love this stuff. And so to get their passion and energy across that we know existed during these sessions, and again, unburdened by the breakup narrative that this album and film came out under, spring of 69, they could have thrown the oldies out there as part of this package, and I think they could have redeemed it.

[Glenn Johnson]

You know what? A thought struck me. I will disagree with you in a minute. But the thought. But the thought struck me. If they had interjected a handful of COVID tunes, like you're saying, into the rooftop performance, boom, we've got a great live album.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And they did talk about that. There is talk of that in planning for the show. Are we going to do any oldies?

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, is there? Okay. In that context, it would have been because they bring so much energy to something like 909, which, you know, they ages old. They bring so much energy to things. I think that's a great idea, however.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And they could have. In fact, it made it to the point of George starting to play it. Then when they talk about the subject of oldies, they're like, clarifying, do you mean any oldies or our oldies? And then he's like, I've always liked every little thing. And he starts picking that up.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that great? Yeah. What a random song to pull.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And that's the thing. If they'd gone deep into their own back catalog, songs they never touched live. There's half your rooftop, Right?

[Glenn Johnson]

Leave my little kitten alone. What's the exact title of it? Yeah, oh, man.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Which nobody knew existed then.

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, man, look at us. We've just told the Beatles what they should have done, and it would have.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Satisfied every Beatle fan on the planet.

[Glenn Johnson]

Where. God, where were we when they needed us? Is anyone sort of thinking of this, like, making an album more. More like sort of doing a lot of numbers than to be able to play them all one after the other half to play them and half, like an album, half that we're trying to recall them, you know, say. Say we did half of them this Thursday and then they didn't have to film the next lot of rehearsals or whatever. Yeah. And then we do another lot and do them in the same place. You know, if we can't. It's just the. How we can't learn another five or six. Good for Thursday. We just got Don't Let Me down and I've Got a Feeling just how they should be when we hit it. However, I'll push back on including oldies. They do include Save the Last Dance for Me and I Hate It.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Do you.

[Glenn Johnson]

It sounds off. Oh, God, yes. They're making fun. It's an incredibly brilliant song.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, it's off the.

[Glenn Johnson]

You're making fun of. I don't care. They're making fun of it. I can remember the lyrics. And these guys are professionals. They can't remember the lyrics. You know, one's doing a phony falsetto.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It might not be the best oldie that they caught on tape. There are plenty of others when they're doing the buddy stuff that turned out, I thought pretty well, where's Mailman? Bring Me no More Blues.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

That could have come out on this.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

There's a multi track of that.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So, yeah, there's definitely. We know what we know. And certainly Glenn Johns had this pile of tape in his pocket and maybe he just cut and run. Let's see if they like this. And no, they don't. And that might have dismayed him.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, he's.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Who knows?

[Glenn Johnson]

He's certainly in an unenviable position with this.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, totally. But, yes. So we've got this weird sort of thought experiment which I think, had the narrative been put out, if it had been embraced by. Certainly would have been embraced by Rolling stone, probably in 1969, and Lester Bangs and every other critic of stature praising the Beatles artistic daring for sharing their passion and bravery and going the unproductive, unproduced, not unproductive, unproduced path for this release. If that was the narrative put out, I think the fans would have accepted it like that.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

If it had been heaped with scorn, then maybe fans would have gone down that way. If Tyler and Carr had reported on it as being, what the hell is this shite? Then it would have been this blemish. I think the Beatles were inclined to think that that's how it was going to be received because that's what Glenn Johns delivered to them. Had he picked the superior takes, it makes you wonder. Spring of 69 used all the superior rooftop performances and, you know, just tweaked it a little appropriately, a better Don't Let Me down than one that's on this, he could have done it. He used the single master of Get Back why not? For Don't Let Me down, he to used. He could have spliced the intro from the alternate lame version. I could create that. Any one of us can, and it would have been so much more the better.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. Glyn Johns was in a no win situation, in my opinion, because I totally respect him. But I don't know why he made some of his choices. But I do think maybe he was as sick and tired of it as they were.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Maybe.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But given a chance to work with the Beatles. Yeah, they got along fine during the sessions, but come the after work and he's trying to make something stick with them, getting no traction. It had to have gotten more and more tedious.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

He's recording Led Zeppelin, you know, that same year, Right.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

There was that quote, remember I pointed out to Peter Jackson because it's not in Get Back, where John kind of pulls him aside, said there's going to be more work. We appreciate you sticking with us. This is a very difficult time for us.

[Glenn Johnson]

I do remember that.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Do you remember that?

[Glenn Johnson]

Yes, I do. Yeah. So they appreciated him, respected him.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, one other thing that strikes me about this record, it reminded me of the American version, the US version of Revolver. Where is John strung out? Well, I know that's not necessarily my point, that he's strung out, but where's the John material?

[Robert Rodriguez]

All right, so you have Don't Let Me down. You have one after 909. You have dig a pony.

[Glenn Johnson]

That's not John material. One after 909 is John and Paul as far as I'm concerned.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay. But it's John's song and that's how it was presented to the world. So whatever. I mean, Dig a Pony is certainly his.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I got a feeling it's half his. Don't Let Me down is here, but side two completely berifed.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And ultimately what emerged, you would at least have them digging into the catalog for across the Universe.

[Glenn Johnson]

There you go.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Oh, yeah. Dig it.

[Glenn Johnson]

So that would have Dig It A Johnson. Well, sadly. But if I were. Because I was in real time, I was young, but I was buying Beatle records, I would have got this record go, where's John?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Available on Life with the Lions and Two Virgins.

[Glenn Johnson]

Now it's your record stores to your point.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It's very Paul heavy, but then. And very George Lite with one song.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And maybe not so much in the way of backing vocals.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, right, right.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Had you put more Rooftop on There, where he brings his A game to lead guitar. That would have been something. It's an interesting thing. I'm glad that we took a look at this, because I think it does warrant some scrutiny in the history of the Beatles. And ultimately, maybe it worked out for the best that the truly A material ended up on Abbey Road or elsewhere, like Old Brown Shoe, I think, is a fantastic performance. Again, make up what you will of it as a song, as a composition, but you cannot argue with the performance. It's a terrific group performance, even if John's not really on it, except for backing vocals.

[Glenn Johnson]

Mm.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay, so what is cool, to our point that we've discussed in this conversation, about it being, in its way, a truer concept album than maybe the Beatles ever consciously managed to produce, Being this sort of linear story with a start and a finish. The album, as turned in by Glyn Johns, ends with that little coda, which is actually taken from the master of Get Back. If you let the fade go. If you don't fade it where the single fades. Paul's vamping for, like, another half minute. He starts doing that sort of laughing get Back thing that you hear at the end of the original cut of the Let It Be film. You know what I'm talking about. John says the line about the audition, and then there's the freeze frame. And then as the credits come up, you hear that sort of coda PS of Get Back. And that is exactly from the master take. And that is how Glyn Johns ends this album. Okay, So I love that touch. It's Pepper Reprise, Venus and Mars. It's a nice little punctuation mark on that, which I think really is the sort of tell that. Yes, folks, this is not your granny's Beatles album. It's actually something we put some thought into as a concept. And there it is.

[Glenn Johnson]

Works for me.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And it makes all the more sense that it would have tied into the film, that it is essentially a soundtrack and not a freestanding Beatle album. It's actually audio to accompany the film that you see.

[Glenn Johnson]

Honestly, I don't think I would have picked up on that back in the day, but I'm glad you did.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It's an alignment, for sure. And maybe it's coincidence that they both decided to end their products the same way. Or maybe it's just a. Here, folks, this is why this album sounds like this, because it's really meant to accompany the film, which, by the way, you're not gonna see for another half a year because people are still fighting over the edit but that's a way to make some sense of it. And I will say, have you seen Remastered? Let it be the 2024. Let it be Disney.

[Glenn Johnson]

No.

[Robert Rodriguez]

All right. For everything people are praising it for. As far as making it not look so dim and dark and gloomy. Pops. Now, there are some touches they did, which I absolutely am kind of perturbed about.

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, boy.

[Robert Rodriguez]

One of them is. That's gone. It doesn't end that way anymore.

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh, okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Now it's got the 20 minutes of 21st century credits. Every person connected with the project getting their name on the screen that nobody watches anyway. You want to really find that information out, go to IMDb. So there's that. And then they took away the transitions. Those sliding door transitions from Twickenham to Apple Studio to the rooftop. It's like, geez, that was a most artful touch in the original film. That doesn't have many artful touches that most people would point to. That was really nice. Like the closing of one chapter, beginning the next, and it's gone now. What the hell?

[Glenn Johnson]

Why do you think they made that creative choice? Anything that makes sense to you?

[Robert Rodriguez]

No, not really. Other than to say, this is not Michael Lindsay Hogg's Let It Be anymore. I don't know. It's supposed to be a remastering of his work. That's why they didn't change any of the content as such, but they changed that, and then they added a ton of credits at the end, so. And I guess they couldn't even match the typeface. Remember the very distinctive opening? Mal carrying the drum head and him and Kevin pushing the piano and Let It Be. It was in the drum head typeface, right?

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, if you look at them side by side, as people will do, because this is Beatles and people examine everything to the greatest depth possible, they're not exactly the same. And in fact, the credits themselves, that. As they appear on the screen at the beginning, like executive producer Neil Aspinall, things like that, they're a little bit different.

[Glenn Johnson]

Okay, so I haven't seen it. You have. Other than your, you know, issues, do you find it a satisfying watch?

[Robert Rodriguez]

If you like the original film, perhaps you'll like this better because we're used to seeing such crappy versions of it, so it looks a million times better, sounds a million times better. But editorially, the film was never without its disappointments, shall we say?

[Glenn Johnson]

And seeing it all these years later doesn't make it better for you?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, again, whatever you thought of it in the first place, I mean, I guess to the people that have seen it, and I'm really not of that mindset, I try to steer clear of the baggage of its release date. And it's the breakup film. It's the film of a band breaking up, you know, the Winter Discontent, all that crap. I try to come into it with as open a mind as possible and sort of imagine. Imagine this film coming out in the summer of 69. Imagine it coming on in more or less concurrently with the album we've just talked about. What would that context have been? There's plenty of fun in there. It ends on the highest of notes, you know, the Rooftop. That's the great triumph of that. So if you're less inclined to look at it as a band breaking up, and certainly there's tedium, certainly there's. The one little sniping scene that everybody likes to point to is indicative of everything. There's plenty of light heartedness in it. There's ennui in it, of course, but that's part of every band experience. Whether you're breaking up or not, whether you're the Beatles or not. That's just part of band life. So if you're prepared to see it for what it is and not the anchor around its neck from the spring of 1970, it's what it is. What I would criticize is that I don't know what it is, other than maybe this sort of impressionistic view of a Beatles project. Because when you say the word documentary, to me that means to document events, to depict cinematically the unfolding of a story. And it's not that. No hint of George walking out, no John's on heroin. None of the stuff we know to have happened, is there really? Not really. I mean, there's no context for any of it, much less a context of what is this project about? You don't know that this was supposed to culminate a TV special live somewhere. Do they mention that in the film now?

[Glenn Johnson]

No.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I'm so buried in Nagras and outtakes and all that stuff, I can't remember for certain, but I don't think they do. So you're seeing this for the first time, bereft of any context. You're not gonna come away with any context. It's just gonna be Beatles rehearsing, making some music, playing on the roof.

[Glenn Johnson]

Mm. I'd have to see it again. It's, you know, been forever since I saw it. So, yeah, I'd have to see it again to know if it leaves me with a storyline or Not.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I always kind of suspected, even well before the advent of Peter Jackson or any of this revisiting of it, that the film is roughly divided into three parts. Twickenham, that's the dark, gloomy, most miserable. If you're gonna point to something being miserable, that's it. Right? Because once they go to Apple, it's all upbeat and Billy Preston and rock and roll oldies and stuff like that. And then the last third of the film is the Rooftop. So I always suspected that it was cut the way it was cut, just so the uplift you get in chapters two and three is that much more satisfying because you're waiting for something to lift you up after slogging through the first third of the film. So I always suspect that that was the editorial choice made. And once we became aware you've got Paul pulling the song Get Back out of the Air on film, why would you not present that minor miracle?

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, no kidding. It's a great point. Why is that missing in action?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Especially if it gone to plan? With this album and this film coming out by summer of 69, the Get Back single still would have been fresh. It would have been concurrent and topical even.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And maybe it was in the original draft. And by the time it got delayed and delayed and delayed, delayed. It made sense to change it from Get Back to Let It Be, because now it's like naming a project after a song that's come and gone.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah, I hear you. I will say, though, in Peter Jackson's Get Back, that is the spotlight moment. I mean, that's the highlight, the most interesting, the most captivating moment in the whole documentary for me.

[Robert Rodriguez]

If ostensibly the purpose of filming the rehearsals was to capture music being created, that's it.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah. All the rest of the creation feels pretty tedious, but that looks and sounds like pure inspiration and it's cool to watch.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Paul doesn't know what he's doing. He's just messing around, waiting for something to happen between his brain and his hands. But when you see George and Ringo, George, you know, they're both yawning and looking like they're about to keel over. Then suddenly they snap to when they're hearing what he's hearing. It's a great moment.

[Glenn Johnson]

So I couldn't agree with you more.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. But anyway, we're not here to talk about the film. We're here to talk about the ostensible soundtrack. And now we've reached our end point. There you go. Any final thoughts?

[Glenn Johnson]

No, other than I. I love this idea. That was a great idea to go from the White Album to what could have been the Beatles next album in a chronological order. I thought it was a great idea. I loved it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It's the bridge.

[Glenn Johnson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

The missing link, just like Pussycats is between rock and roll and walls and bridges.

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh my. I couldn't agree with you more.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Or McGeer. Between band on the Run and Venus and Mars.

[Glenn Johnson]

Oh my. Look at you. I love the Lenin comparison. Yeah, it would have been an interesting bridge for sure.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And we crossed it.

[Glenn Johnson]

And we crossed it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Or did CR.

[Glenn Johnson]

Get back. Get together. Get back. Oh, we got to get together.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Something about the Beatles Created and hosted by Robert Rodriguez executive producer Rick Way Title song performed by the Corgis Something about the Beatles is an evergreen podcast.

[Glenn Johnson]

Where are you? Doesn't somebody want to be wanting like me? Just like me? You know I'm no different from anybody else? I start each day and I end each night? It gets really lonely when you're by yourself now where is love and who is love? I gotta know? Doesn't somebody want to be wanted like me? Where are you? Want to be wanted like me? Just like me? Doesn't somebody want to be wanted like me? Where are you?