← Something About the Beatles
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- [00:02]
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- [01:01]
Sarah Schmidt
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- [01:17]
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- [01:20]
Sarah Schmidt
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- [01:30]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
And the name of it is A sprout of a new Generation. It shows Paul McCartney coming up from the earth. Like growing a sprout, a start a new dawn. You see, the Beatles are the original. They thought the look everything and they are the greatest proof out. And here is if you notice, he's like rowing and and I like his oil paint and I love to present his paint in the pool and I love him to have it and I love to meet him because.
- [02:03]
Interviewer/Listener
Do you think you have any chance of meeting him?
- [02:06]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
Well, well, I don't really know. It's really all luck because a lot of people meet them because they know somebody. But I would like to get called this and shown I'm a true fan and that you know, and that I wouldn't tear him apart, speak to like a decent human being and that he's really the greatest in show business.
- [02:29]
Interviewer/Listener
It sounds like you have sort of a Crush on Paul McCartney.
- [02:32]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
Yes, that's true. I love ball the Beatles, but Paul's my favorite. I do know something about your me.
- [02:48]
Robert Rodriguez
Hello and welcome to episode 311 of Something about the Beatles podcast. It seems weird to be this late in the year and being up to 311, which means only 11 new shows since episode 300, which was earlier this year. That seems odd to me. But when I think about it, there's been some special episodes along the way and I think the number belies the productivity, some of which involves the sappy newsletter, which if you haven't subscribed yet, is on a more stable and expansive platform, taking some of your suggestions as far as the layout and contents goes. And it's going to be the way that I discuss what's upcoming, discuss some Beetle history, discuss Beetle news and upcoming releases and things like that. So if you're not already a subscriber, I would Recommend One of two things. You can just shoot me an email at satb2010satb2010.com to subscribe or you can check out an actual copy of the latest newsletter. Go to my LinkedIn profile and it's something I posted this week as part of the new platform.
- [03:57]
Alison Bumstead
So you get to see what it's.
- [03:58]
Robert Rodriguez
Like in advance and like, oh that's what it is. This is cool. Be informed about everything going on upcoming, etc.
- [04:04]
Alison Bumstead
Etc.
- [04:04]
Robert Rodriguez
Etc. Because there's going to be a lot of stuff I'm going to be soliciting input from you guys from going forward, new projects and such. So stay tuned and be in position to have your opinion count for something as far as influence on this show. And what I do goes because honestly I don't do a whole lot of the social media stuff these days except to announce new shows. That's about it. This new show features a longtime friend that we've known each other through the fest. We've known each other through other things, but first time of having her on the show. Long overdue and you've heard me mention her on the show before. Sarah Schmidt, two time author as well as contributor to some books. Now I don't know how far back you guys might remember the show I had, I want to say around 2018 with Axel Corinth who is one of the co authors of the A is for Apple series, which is a big heavy cinder block of a book series. I think they're four deep now everything you'd want to know about the history of Apple and its releases. Each volume is a very big thick book, but Sarah is a contributor to a couple of volumes of that. There is her own books as well. One is Happiness is Seeing the Beatles, which is the history of them in St. Louis and the other one, more recently published is Dear Beetle People. It's a history of the North American Beatle fan clubs, which means the official one, as well as all the independent ones which were legion. The history not only of the clubs but an examination of the fandom which we've done on the show through teen fan magazines with Alison Bumstead as well as people that were first gen fans. We've examined the screamers and fans who are first gen Beatle fans that weren't screamers. And there's a lot to know about the history that shines more light on the story of the Beatles, in this case in North America, which is a lot. And Sarah has done an amazing job collating all this stuff, interviewing tons of people, fans that were members of clubs that ran things. And it is loaded with ephemera and fan club stuff and period pictures. And another call out and this will also be a show Upcoming artist Eric Cash did the design and layout of the book and probably the most famous thing he's done is that painting, the introduction, John and Paul being introduced at the Wilton fete in 1957. And it gets used a ton every year on July 6th you see it circulating. But he's done a lot of stuff. Ed Sullivan show, individual pictures and hey Jude, he did a rooftop one recently, all kinds of really cool stuff. There's the living room illustration he did of American fans seeing the Beatles on the Sullivan show. Really cool stuff. And he did this super period appropriate design of the book that kind of Riffs on 16 Magazine. You'll see it if you check out her book, which I recommend you do. Anyway, here's my conversation and the aforementioned Alison Bumstead contributing to this one as it is within her scope. As somebody who examines teen literature and that era in particular, she was a great person to have alongside Jim. For this conversation with Sarah. One last thing. If you don't know Sarah, you don't know her books. Check out Meet the Beatles for Real blog, an archive she's been curating. She'd been doing it for some time, started out doing photo research, all these sort of fan pictures and things you don't commonly see in Beatle projects and a lot of research going into when they were taken, where and by whom and that kind of thing. And she's also collected tons and tons of stories from beetle witnesses, people that were there, that were around when the stuff was being documented. So if you are a geek for this kind of thing, you can't do any better than her site Meet the Beatles for Real. But she is a top notch researcher, which is reflected in the two books she's produced as well as the stuff she did for the A Is for Apple series. So I'm honored to finally have her on the show. Not for the last time Sarah Schmidt with Alison.
- [08:15]
Interviewer/Listener
I'd like to thank you just for being fans.
- [08:18]
Alison Bumstead
Sarah, a lot of people might know you beyond the two books you've published. Dear Beatle People and Happiness is Seeing the Beatles, the History of the Beatles in St. Louis that you've been running a website for, I don't know how long. I just know it's been always kind of like it was. I've always been vaguely aware of it being there. Meet the Beatles For Real, which is a collection of stories and photographs the likes of which most people have never seen anywhere. And you just sort of collect and curate this stuff. And I was very happy when on the show I did recently with Chuck Gunderson and you happened to be in the room. But I don't think that's why he did it. He brought up that site and what an invaluable resource it's been. Can you tell me how that started? And for anybody who's not seen it, what is it all about?
- [09:01]
Sarah Schmidt
Sure. Well, I started in 2009, so it's been 16 years of meeting the Beatles for real. And I started it because at the time I was going through a difficult time and I wanted something to keep myself busy. And I was involved in this back in the day group called the Bootleg Zone. And they were. They had this wonderful idea that they were going to take all the bootlegs of the Beatles and put it in chronological order. Like it was this huge project that a big group of people were working on that never really went anywhere, but it was nice idea. And so I volunteered that I would do the pictures. So they wanted liner notes with pictures and narrow down dates of what day certain pictures were. So I took that on. And while I was sifting through all these pictures that I had, I kept seeing pictures that were taken by fans. And they really stood out to me because they told a totally different story than the posed pictures. So I would put those aside in a separate file. Well, then I decided I'm gonna share these with everybody, just as an aside. So I started Meet the Beatles For Real, just as a way to show the people in this group these photos that I had discovered that were taken by fans.
- [10:27]
Alison Bumstead
Let me stop you right there. How were you acquiring these photos? Did you have to seek them out any place particular? Was it all over the place? Where were you finding them?
- [10:36]
Sarah Schmidt
It was just all over the place online. Scanned magazines, books, MySpace. Just random places online that I was digging and researching and finding pictures. So then I realized that some of the pictures that I had matched A story that I had in a fan magazine. The right thing that I had bought at best for Beatle fans for like a dollar. And I was like, wait a minute, that's the picture she was talking about in that story. It's like, well, I need to type this up and like put it together and show everybody. This is so cool. And then that's kind of how everything took off from there. I never expected anyone Besides like the 25 people working on this project to see it, but somehow the world has seen it and it just keeps growing 16 years later.
- [11:31]
Alison Bumstead
And along the way you made some connections with people that we as Beatle fans would know as familiar. Specifically, I'm thinking about Lizzie Bravo, who we know. Tell us about that.
- [11:43]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, Lizzie was one of the first people that somehow stumbled upon. I really think she is why it kind of started to take off towards other people. Cause somehow she discovered it. Maybe because I put her at her name on there. I don't know, she never really told me. And she started commenting like, oh, this actually was taken in 1967 by my friend Maureen. And I was like, wait a minute, who are you? Like, why do you know who took these pictures? And more information. And so Lizzie really was. To this day, if you look in the comments, you'll find all sorts of comments by Lizzie.
- [12:20]
Alison Bumstead
She's a presence for sure.
- [12:21]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah.
- [12:22]
Alison Bumstead
If anybody doesn't know or knows the name and can't put it to what she's known for. It was her and Galene Peace who were fans from outside of England that were hanging out around EMI and got shanghaied into contributing backing vocals to the initial takes of across the Universe. Those female voices you hear because in the studio somebody got the bright idea, oh, we need female voices on this. Who do we know? Well, they stepped outside and that's who they brought in. And people know that from the World Wildlife Fund version of across the Universe.
- [12:55]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
Versus a Let it be one's going to change my world.
- [13:22]
Alison Bumstead
If you know the name Lizzie Bravo.
- [13:23]
Robert Rodriguez
That's why.
- [13:24]
Sarah Schmidt
Yes. And she did a lot of other things behind the scenes. Like she got the. Oh, John and Yoko. They had everybody sign wooden spoon. Oh, they signed wooden spoons for one of their demonstrations. And Lizzie had to go around to all these different Woolworths and get buy a bunch of wooden spoons for them to sign.
- [13:48]
Alison Bumstead
And these stories can be found on Meet the Beales for Real site.
- [13:51]
Sarah Schmidt
I might have that story on there. I don't remember. I know I read it in her book.
- [13:54]
Alison Bumstead
Okay. And her book for she's no longer with us to be a guest here.
- [13:59]
Sarah Schmidt
No.
- [14:00]
Alison Bumstead
Tell us about her book. Just so people know, her book is.
- [14:04]
Sarah Schmidt
On the road to like from Rio to London or something is the title of it. It's only in Portuguese. It's not available in English. She was in the middle when she passed away. Cause I would talk to Lizzie almost weekly. We would talk on the phone. Like we became more than just Beatle friends. We became friend friends. Like you know, talking about our lives beyond our hobby of the Beatles. But at the time of her death, she was going through her diaries and translating her diaries into English. She didn't just want to translate her book that was in Portuguese cause she's from Brazil into English. She wanted the exact wording from her diary. Like she was taking an extra step. And she was in the middle of doing that when she passed away. I had heard that her daughter was going to take over, but I don't that's happening.
- [14:59]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Well, I haven't heard anything from the apostrophe world.
- [15:02]
Sarah Schmidt
Right. I haven't either. And I her, far as I know, her daughter is not a fluent English speaker as her mother was. So that kind of.
- [15:13]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I wonder if somebody will just a publisher will translate the book with permission as it is.
- [15:18]
Sarah Schmidt
That's kind of what I would like to see. I mean the book's there. I have painstakingly typed in important and a Google Translate to kind of get the idea of what it says. I did a lot of it because I wanted to know what it said because she sent me a copy of her book.
- [15:36]
Alison Bumstead
Right. And that's where we left. Cause I remember her telling me I'm working on an English version and as soon as it's ready, I'll come on your show. Robert. And sadly we ran out of time. But that's an invaluable resource. I mean, Allison and I have talked about people who kept diaries back in that time and how that first person contemporary resource is just invaluable for something that we care so much about.
- [16:03]
Sarah Schmidt
She, like many, was reluctant to publish her diaries. Cause she was embarrassed. And she was embarrassed because she was like, oh, John looks so handsome today, you know. And she really fangirls out over John, which is why we. We kind of bonded because we're both big John fans.
- [16:19]
Alison Bumstead
But that tells a story unto itself.
- [16:21]
Sarah Schmidt
Yes, it does.
- [16:22]
Christine Feldman Barrett
And we can all relate to that. We still fangirl like. I mean, I'm in a flash to poster. I fangirl over every day in my kitchen that vintage, you know, I say hello to the lads. I'm like, hello, Paul.
- [16:35]
Sarah Schmidt
Well, and she was a teenager. I mean, of course she's gonna have a. Of the Beatles and. And express that in her diary. That.
- [16:45]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, of course. And I'm not nice to do it.
- [16:47]
Sarah Schmidt
She was embarrassed as a woman in her 60s at the time that she. That. That she sees things.
- [16:53]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I think a lot of women have all these amazing stories and men too, that they're not sharing because they are embarrassed. I'm so glad that they get. They move past that for whatever reason and. And see their stories as valuable. Like Debbie Gendler's book, I found. I'm so glad that she decided in the end to publish her book because I really enjoyed it and I had a lot of insight to a world that, you know, I wasn't part of. So.
- [17:16]
Sarah Schmidt
Yes.
- [17:16]
Alison Bumstead
Right. And to that I would add Carol Tyler, who published Fab 4 Mania and the Immediacy to that, because she was documenting things in real time. It brings you into that moment in a way that goes beyond seeing a piece of film or a picture. You capture their emotions well.
- [17:32]
Christine Feldman Barrett
And it's just more than screaming girls. It shows you what they're actually thinking. And now Debbie's story is unique, but the inner life. Yeah, but, yeah, just. Just seeing like her drawing the. The paper and Debbie or. And Carol's book was like the Beatles, the Beatles, the Beatles, the Beatles. Over and over and over and over again. We've all related to that, even if it's not over. The Beatles. Right. We've done something like that. And our fan girl fanboying.
- [17:53]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah.
- [17:53]
Alison Bumstead
So Meet the Beatles for real is just a tremendous sight for anybody that hasn't checked it out yet. Not only you get these visuals, but you get these great anecdotes and stories with this immediacy to it from a lot of people that are actual beetle witnesses. And it's been my impression just in the times I visited your site, that you go through a lot of trouble to research things where dates are in dispute and you've got the body of knowledge in your head or you know, how to find answers to where things that might be unclear you can track down and go, oh, actually, this is when this happened. And so as praise from Caesar, you got Chuck Gunderson citing you as a source that he relied on. And it's a wonderful and valuable thing we've got. I've had this conversation many times with people. We're living in a golden age of Beatles scholarship because not only are more pieces of the puzzle being brought to the table, both of you women with the fan stories through different paths, fan magazines, fan stories, fan clubs, all this stuff. It brings us closer to an understanding of this phenomenon that from a distance for the generations to come that were not there at the time, you get a real handle and understanding of why this was so special and unique. And while we're still Talking about it 60 plus years later, this was something that's not been repeated. And the reverberations are still being felt in terms of inspiration and joy and everything else. With Alison saluting that 1963 picture on her kitchen wall every morning, or just the people that with every new release that comes out of Apple, finding something to be turned on by. It's an incredible thing. So that's why we're here.
- [19:35]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, I agree. I love your website, Sarah. I've used it many times. That's how I found you. And I actually, Robert, already hit that question because I had that question ready. It's like how you know, what kind of connections have you made and has this brought you closer to fans, which you've already answered. But that was the first thing I thought of because I know many people like Christine Feldman Barrett as well as myself have mentioned your site. Because you had a picture. Because I write about Judy Sims. For those who have heard about Judy. If you haven't, ask me later. And you've had wonderful pictures of her on there and it was just very helpful and joyful to see. So I'm really, really grateful for your site as I know many of the listeners here will be too as well.
- [20:15]
Sarah Schmidt
One of the things that makes me the happiest about the site is that it has reconnected people like that to me means the most old friends that used to hang out outside the Dakota, you know, in the 70s have reconnected through the site because they see a picture and then in the comments and then they're exchanging emails and that warms my heart.
- [20:37]
Alison Bumstead
That's really cool that you've got that connectivity happening that people get drawn to your site or Google around and in the comments you got people's names, people responding to things and these little conversations taking place.
- [20:49]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, I think that overall means the most to me more than anything else is that it's reconnected people who were friends because of the Beatles back in the 60s and 70s and can be rekindled today.
- [21:03]
Alison Bumstead
Have you thought about collecting this and curating it and turning it into something in published form?
- [21:09]
Sarah Schmidt
I have thought about it. I just don't know if I have the Right. To do that. Because it's not my. They're not my stories.
- [21:16]
Alison Bumstead
They're not your stories. But I wonder, certainly as fans, we're interested in this stuff, but I'm sure you can contact these people saying, hey, I'm thinking about sharing your stories with the world. Are you cool with that?
- [21:27]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, that's. Can I contact. Some of these people have passed away. Some people, I don't.
- [21:32]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Can't.
- [21:32]
Sarah Schmidt
Don't know who they are. It's.
- [21:34]
Alison Bumstead
They're probably going to be less litigious than.
- [21:36]
Sarah Schmidt
It's a lot.
- [21:37]
Christine Feldman Barrett
No, but you could create like an article or a piece that you talk about your experience with the website and, and, and share some of the greatest hits examples that work. If it's published and printed on your website and they like vocalized it, that's something that I feel is like fair game because they, you know, put it.
- [21:53]
Alison Bumstead
Out into the world, man.
- [21:54]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, they put it out in the world. Yeah. Cool.
- [21:56]
Alison Bumstead
I'd buy that book.
- [21:57]
Sarah Schmidt
That's true.
- [21:58]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah.
- [21:59]
Alison Bumstead
But now we're talking about this book.
- [22:01]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Oh, one of my favorite books.
- [22:02]
Alison Bumstead
Uh huh.
- [22:03]
Sarah Schmidt
Oh, thank you.
- [22:04]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I love your book. Dear Beetle People, the Story of the Beatles North American Fan Club. The artwork is excellent on there.
- [22:12]
Alison Bumstead
So Eric Cash.
- [22:13]
Sarah Schmidt
Yes, Eric. Yeah, Eric Cash did an amazing job with the COVID and all of the artwork inside. I always have to give. It was all his idea. It's kind of. It's based after 16 magazine.
- [22:25]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yes. Which is through.
- [22:27]
Sarah Schmidt
You'll see little, little easter eggs of 16 magazine. Things like the find the hidden or what's the difference between the two features? You know, he drew all that.
- [22:39]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah.
- [22:40]
Alison Bumstead
The design is phenomenal. It absolutely captures that vibe.
- [22:44]
Christine Feldman Barrett
It is, it just, it captures the joy of that era. And then of course in magazines, I'm actually like just diving into your book because it's about the North American fan clubs. Can you tell us about the development of the original Beatles fan club?
- [22:59]
Sarah Schmidt
The original Beatles Fan Club in the United States. Okay. Well, that's quite a story. The whole thing is quite a story if you ask me. That's why I wrote it was because it was a story I hadn't heard before and I wanted to read a book about it and I couldn't find one.
- [23:15]
Alison Bumstead
You had to write it.
- [23:16]
Sarah Schmidt
So now there is one. Cause I decided to write myself. The Original Beatles Fan Club Beatles USA limited was formed after the Beatles came on the Ed Sullivan Show. They were starting to form it beforehand. They really dropped the ball if you ask me, because it didn't happen until March of 1960, late March 1964.
- [23:42]
Alison Bumstead
We're talking here something sanctioned by the Beatles.
- [23:44]
Sarah Schmidt
Yes.
- [23:45]
Alison Bumstead
And nems.
- [23:45]
Sarah Schmidt
Official Beatles USA Limited, the official Beatles Fan Club, based in New York. Now, of course, girls all over the United States were forming Beatles fan clubs probably February 9th of 1964. Like, soon as they saw the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, they were in their neighborhoods, on the schoolyards, forming their own Beatles fan clubs. But there wasn't an actual sanctioned one yet in the United States until late March, March 22, 23rd, 1964, which late. And they were playing catch up. That's how it was. So it started at the office of Walter Hoffer, who was an attorney. He and his wife were put in charge by Brian Epstein to do the Beatles Fan club. And so they put up some signs around different record shops. I happen to own one, which is kind of fun. They put those around different record shops like, join the Beatles Fan Club.
- [24:50]
Alison Bumstead
Is this national or is this.
- [24:52]
Sarah Schmidt
It was national.
- [24:53]
Alison Bumstead
Okay.
- [24:54]
Sarah Schmidt
And they put some ads in newspapers around the country. And for $2, you got a membership card and a bulletin and just some real basic stuff. And you were a member of the official Beatles fan club. Now, if you wanted to have your own little fan club and be connected to the Official Beatles USA Limited, you could have a charter. You had to have at least 25 members. You had to make sure they all had their dues paid. And then you would get a charter that said that you were. Official charter of the Beatles USA Limited.
- [25:36]
Alison Bumstead
$2 annual.
- [25:37]
Sarah Schmidt
$2 annual.
- [25:39]
Alison Bumstead
And I think you point out in the book that it really didn't pay for itself.
- [25:44]
Sarah Schmidt
No, it didn't at all. They lost money on the fan club big time. I mean, it was so poorly organized at the beginning. It was. The head of it was a wonderful woman named Bernice Young. And I wish we knew more about Bernice, because she just sounds very fascinating. She was an African American woman in her 30s, which does not fit the demographic of a Beatle fan in 1964 at all. But they found her. She was one of the first black women to graduate from this whatever university it was. I know I have it in the book. So she was very educated. Everyone I spoke to who knew Bernice, because of course, she passed away in the 80s, like a long time ago. But everyone said that she was very efficient, she was very kind. Like, they just sing her praises, that she was very good. But she was in over her head for the amount of mail.
- [26:39]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Oh, yeah.
- [26:40]
Sarah Schmidt
And everything that came in. It was really hard for her to keep up with it, it was run out of Walter Hoffer's office. And his wife did a little bit with it. But really, this was Bernice's thing. She had a few teenage volunteers and all of this mail was just rolling in nonstop. And it was hard for her to keep up with it all. And people wanted to join the club that didn't get responses and their letters got lost. And, you know, it was. It was messy.
- [27:11]
Alison Bumstead
I'm picturing a hard day's night where they're in the hotel suite and the bags of mail start coming in for Ringo.
- [27:17]
Sarah Schmidt
Yes. And that's what it was like. I mean, they were in this little closet. And Walter Hoffer's office was where the fan club was. It was this little room. And the mail just kept coming and coming. And poor Bernice is, like, up to her eyeballs and fan mail.
- [27:31]
Christine Feldman Barrett
And my understanding is that they did try to find somebody to lead the fan club before the Beatles arrived. Right. I mean, I think Debbie Gendler's story comes in here because she was about to look her off.
- [27:42]
Sarah Schmidt
Yes, they were looking for someone, but.
- [27:44]
Christine Feldman Barrett
They just couldn't find someone until after. Or they just weren't prepared.
- [27:49]
Sarah Schmidt
I don't know for sure, but the feeling that I get was like, it wasn't. They were looking, but it wasn't like a pressing emergency. Like, we need a fan club person right now, today. Like, well, we're looking. Okay. Debbie's too young. Let's look for this person who isn't qualified. Okay. Well, I really don't think they were expecting the fan reaction across the country that the Beatles received. I just don't think they were thinking the fan club was going to accept explode.
- [28:20]
Alison Bumstead
Because they didn't have a hit record in this country till the end of 63.
- [28:23]
Sarah Schmidt
Right. Yeah.
- [28:24]
Alison Bumstead
When I Want A Whole Chain got rushed release and became number one in January. So why would they make it a priority if they don't know that a bunch of records have come and gone in this country without making a dent?
- [28:34]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, that's true.
- [28:35]
Sarah Schmidt
I think they knew, like, okay, we need. Definitely need a fan club. I just don't think it was oppressing. Like, there was more important things. That's the feeling that I get from who I'm talking to people and read things I've read.
- [28:47]
Alison Bumstead
Right.
- [28:47]
Sarah Schmidt
You know what? He said that. But that's just the vibe I get.
- [28:50]
Alison Bumstead
Prior to the Beatles, was there, like an existing sort of template for creating on this level a fan club? Surely Elvis must have had one.
- [29:00]
Sarah Schmidt
Elvis had a big fan club. Mickey Mouse was the other one. That was the Mickey Mouse Club. Mickey Mouse fan club was the other, like, thing. Of course, Frank Sinatra had one. There was a lot of fan clubs for different actors. That was kind of a thing in the 50s, 40s, 50s. But, you know, not really for a group of people. You know, the Beatles are the first, like, for a band more than just one person, which added on an extra layer because you just weren't getting fan mail for Frank Sinatra like you were getting John, Paul, George, Ringo were getting. And then the whole band was getting. So it was a little extra than what Elvis had seen.
- [29:46]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Now, you said that, like, part of the reason you wrote the book is because you couldn't find much on the topic, which I completely understand that in my world on Teen Magazine. But how, like, what really drew you to this topic? What was it that said, I need to dive in further, I want to know more and the world needs to know more?
- [30:04]
Sarah Schmidt
Well, meet the Beatles for real. I was always digging up some and a lot of them. You could find this little tie in to the Beatles fan club. Like, the girls got to meet the Beatles because of the Beatles fan club. So that got me, like, well, I want to know more about the fan club. How did that all fit in the big puzzle of the story of the Beatles? And I just couldn't find anything. And the more I started digging, the more I realized what a mess the American fan club was. Had the cease and desist letters in 1968. That was probably my pull was like, what on earth? The Beatles sent cease and desist letters to 144 Beatle fans. Like, I wanted to know more about that. That totally interests me. I wanted to know more about that. And I was like, how come nobody knows about this? And so that was what really interested me.
- [30:58]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah.
- [30:59]
Alison Bumstead
Okay. And what did you find?
- [31:00]
Sarah Schmidt
Oh, my gosh, it was crazy. It was crazy. So by 1968, the Beatles fan club finally got their act and they were sending out the Beatles Christmas messages regularly and they were wanting to redo the whole thing. So they're realigning the whole fan club to look more like the British one.
- [31:21]
Alison Bumstead
Did this have to do with Beth, Brian and Apple being started up? That they were trying to, like, clean slate, let's do this properly now that we're running our own business interests?
- [31:33]
Sarah Schmidt
I don't know if they really thought of it that technically, but it was around that time Bernice had left by early 1968, and a young girl named Sandy Morris became the new national director of the fan club. And she was a young Beatle fan, she was in her 20s, so she was now in charge and wanting to do things, like, the right way. So they were teaming up with Date Book magazine, which really, really was helpful. I mean, that really was. Cause in the UK they had teamed up with Beatlebook Monthly, so the fan club was able to talk about what was going on in their little newsletter at the beginning. So they did the same thing with.
- [32:19]
Alison Bumstead
Date Book, which seems curious because that's the magazine that blew them up in 1966 in not a very positive way, although it was, as Alison will be the first to tell you, by design.
- [32:31]
Sarah Schmidt
Oh, yeah, yeah, I discovered that too. Oh.
- [32:34]
Christine Feldman Barrett
But of course, that Date Book issue is very controversial for all the right reasons, as Art Unger and Danny Fields would say. But it did a good job of bringing a lot of attention and bringing a lot of fan voices out. So. Yeah. Do you know why they chose State Book? Is it Art's connection with the Beatles?
- [32:52]
Sarah Schmidt
Probably Art's connection with the Beatles. I don't think in 1968 it was considered like, oh, they were so controversial. It was just like, yeah, they do Beatle content. Like, I don't.
- [33:04]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah. Date Woodcraft had kind of. It was still very radical by then, but it still. They had a teen Date Book version as well, and they kind of had simmered down in that, really.
- [33:15]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah. I. I haven't discovered really, why they chose Date Book over any other magazine to team up with, but.
- [33:22]
Alison Bumstead
Because I'm thinking teenset would have been a natural too, Unless Judy Sims didn't want to be seen as the pet of the Beatles.
- [33:30]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Well, I imagine for Judy, with the very little support she had doing her by herself and with. I don't know if she would have had the ability to do it, but she did have the connection to the Beatles that most didn't. But so did Art. Art probably connected a lot more to the officials surrounding the Beatles, whereas as Judy was riding with Mal, but she.
- [33:51]
Alison Bumstead
Also had connections with the UK publications as well. Because the first thing I'm thinking about 1968 and Judy Sims and Beatles is she's attending White Album sessions.
- [34:00]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah. And she's writing. Yeah. Because she's writing for Disk and Echo. Yeah. But she's busy, you know. Yeah, she's busy, yeah. Whereas Art has. Has been running a teen fan magazine since 59. Right. And he has a little bit more at his disposal, whereas Judy's. Judy's just hanging on with that magazine.
- [34:16]
Alison Bumstead
So the fan clubs connect with Date Book as a Means of marketing themselves.
- [34:20]
Sarah Schmidt
Or marketing themselves, getting the word out there and letting the fans know, hey, come back to the fan club. Because by 1967, most Beatle fans had dropped the fan club because they weren't getting the materials they were supposed to, they were promised to get. The communication was very poor. Like they were really down on the fan club. Like there are letters that I've read, like, it's basically, don't join Beatles USA ltd. They're terrible. Join our independent fan club. So independent Fan clubs in 1967 were the way to go. And they were very well organized, 67 into 68. They had. The very first Beatles convention was held through Fan clubs in 1968, in August. So anyone that says a Beatles fan club convention was started by a man is wrong. I just had this conversation a couple months ago on Twitter. They're like, you don't know what you're talking about. A man started the Beatles fan convention. So I was like, no, actually it was a woman. In 1968 in Minneapolis, there was a group of women. And so they had. They invited anyone who was a member of any of the independent Beatles fan club to get together in Minneapolis. And one of the cool things about that is that the weekend they heard on their transistor radio hey Jude together for the first time in revolution.
- [35:47]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Oh, that's so cool.
- [35:49]
Sarah Schmidt
So to think to be with a group of Beatle fans and hearing a monumental song like K Jude for the very first time, gathered around a little transistor radio, like, it gives me chills to think about, like what that experience had to been like for them.
- [36:03]
Christine Feldman Barrett
This actually leads me to one, like, I want to go back in time a little bit because it just transitions perfect into the concept of active fans. Right. In my research, one of my favorite things is that, is that teen fan magazines allowed for a lot of active fan moments, whether it's through writing into the editor or. And in your case this is going to connect, is that Janie Milstead, who edited Teen Screen for a while, had the Beatles Guardian angel club where you could join. They would send you a ribbon and a letter. But you had very similar experiences here because the teen fan magazines, again, Teen Screen really pushed for fake badges. You could cut out armbands and stickers, things you could stick for the Ringo for President fan club or active moments. Right. And so you talk about this actually in your book. You talk about the Beatles bobbies as well as the ring of for president movement. Can you elaborate on. On those as well as the just activeness of these independent as well as the LTD club and how that looks, right?
- [37:07]
Sarah Schmidt
Well, the fans clubs were really active in a lot of different ways. They raised a lot of money for different organizations. Like the John F. Kennedy Library was a popular one. Breast cancer research was a big one because of Paul's mom. And one of them even was raising money for handgun awareness in the 60s, which is kind of wow. Like, yeah, that made me go, wow, okay, yeah.
- [37:33]
Christine Feldman Barrett
How did they raise that money?
- [37:35]
Sarah Schmidt
So they were doing a lot of things there were having bake sales to raise money. They were having Beatle dances where they just play Beatle music and everyone came to dance. But there was a cover charge. They were doing like lip sync contests, Beatles songs. Like the fan clubs organized all sorts of fun rallies to raise money for important causes. When I read about it, they say, cause the media just shows us as the screaming girls. And yes, we are the screaming girls. We're proud of that. This is how we let our steam out. But we also think these causes are very important and we wanna raise money for them in the name of the Beatles. And that let everyone know that we're not just teeny boppers, we're not just the Beatles, aren't just, you know, some guys we have a crush on. Like, we're serious about this. And in the name of the Beatles, we're going to do all these great causes. So a little sect of that was the Ringo for President campaign. And the Ringo for President campaign was a big part of the fan Club in 1964. And they were quick to tell you, this is just something we're doing for fun. Like, we know Ringo can't be president. Like, like every interview in newspapers and on TV are like, you realize he's done an American like, yeah, we can't even vote yet. Mr. We're just doing this as fun because we think Ringo would be great as president. And I kind of agree even to this day, you know, the Peace and Love ticket, I'm all for it. And so at last I understood that there was still a spark of good in Ringo, Ringo, Ringo. So it was just this fun activity that they did. And they would march around with the Ringo for President signs and they would have all sorts of cute little signs. And, you know, there was the song Ringo for President and the one group was like, they marched to the city hall and they said, if you won't let us in, we're gonna jump in the fountain out front. And they're like, we're not letting you in. So they jump in the fountain. There's pictures. Like there's anytime you see Ringo for President pictures, you'll see these wet girls with signs and a fountain. And that's why, because they said we're gonna jump in the fountain if you're not gonna let us in to talk to you. So that was just really a fun activity that they did. I love the one interview I read in a newspaper where they're talking to the parents and they're like, you know, this summer they've been really into this Ringo for President. They've been making posters and signs and marching around town and they've been out of our hair the whole summer. It's been great. Like the parents are like, you know, they're not bugging us. We love it. So made everybody happy.
- [40:28]
Christine Feldman Barrett
And everybody loves still posting those posters with Ringo for President. I mean everyone, right?
- [40:34]
Sarah Schmidt
I mean it was just. It was meant as a fun thing, celebratory. I know today people look at it like they were serious and they were never serious. It was just, you know, teenagers doing a good thing.
- [40:48]
Alison Bumstead
Let me ask you about something that I became aware of when I was collecting in my early years of trying to get all the picture sleeves to the 45 releases on Capitol, is that some of them came with inserts for the fan club. Right?
- [41:02]
Sarah Schmidt
They did.
- [41:03]
Alison Bumstead
What do you know about that? And when did it start and when did it stop?
- [41:06]
Sarah Schmidt
Right before the Beatles came to America there was a push for the fan clubs to be connected to Capitol and through the radio stations and through Capitol because they didn't realize the Beatles were going to be popular. As soon as they realized that the Beatles didn't need that publicity and people are gonna join the fan club without it. Capitol dropped off so pretty early in 1964.
- [41:34]
Alison Bumstead
64, yeah.
- [41:36]
Sarah Schmidt
Okay, so that stuff's pretty collectible. Cause it stopped pretty soon. So if you find any.
- [41:42]
Alison Bumstead
Did it continue after like. Cause I seem to remember, I seem to connect it to Lady Madonna for some reason, which is 68. I'm wondering if there was a latter day iteration.
- [41:52]
Sarah Schmidt
Now you're going back to 68, where on one side it' joined the Beatles fan club. We are now connected with Datebook magazine.
- [42:01]
Alison Bumstead
Okay. Okay.
- [42:03]
Sarah Schmidt
It's this two sided thing kind of talking about the relaunch, if you will, of the fan club.
- [42:10]
Alison Bumstead
And so that would date it to early in 68 that this is happening really before the proper startup of Apple, which came later in the summer.
- [42:17]
Sarah Schmidt
Yes.
- [42:17]
Alison Bumstead
So okay, interesting. Now we're putting a timetable together.
- [42:21]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, 68 really is the Breaking year of stuff.
- [42:25]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Sarah, one of the other things when it comes to fan club and magazines and all these are great because they like. Like you were talking about the Ringle for President piece is that in 64, that was just an early example of the Beatles community because these young women are so integral to the success of the Beatles. And the just visuals of the Beatles out and about and in your face. Can you tell us about the Beatles Bobby stories or any other the active stories in the early 60s and into the late 60s and beyond?
- [42:55]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, the Beatles Bobbies are really interesting. They started in Baltimore and they decided it was a group of older, I mean 16 plus, so that's considered older Beatle fans. In 1964 they didn't like all the screaming cause you couldn't hear the Beatles. And they made the Beatle fans look immature. And you know, you're 16 and older, you want to be considered mature and all grown up. So they were afraid, and rightfully so, because we know what happened, that the Beatles would stop coming around to the towns where the fans were screaming all the time and they couldn't hear themselves perform. So they made a promise within their. Like their group was going to police the fans and get the fans to throw streamers and confetti instead of jelly beans at the Beatles for one thing. Because that could hurt them. We don't want to hurt our Beatles. Yeah, no, you don't want to cause them pain. So we're going to throw streamers in the air instead and instead of screaming we're going to be singing along with the Beatles. And they wore bands that said BB Beatles Bobbies. And they had a card with an official oath that they took. You had to be 16 or older to join the Beatles Bobbies. And they really kind of were the mean girls of the Beatle fan club world because they acted like they were better than the other fans. Which caused a whole lot of nonsense commotion in San Francisco. So the movement spread, started in Baltimore, it spread throughout the country. And if you remember San Francisco, when the Beatles landed, they were supposed to land in Beetleville, which was an area of the airport. They were gonna get up on a stage and make a little talk like some little speech like thank you Beatle fans for coming to welcome us. Something they were gonna say. We don't know what they were gonna say. While they were waiting, an all out ruckus happened out there on the airport with the Beetle bodies. And then all these other Beatle fan club groups who were arguing who loved the Beatles the most and Then the Beatle bodies were like, hey, calm down, stop fighting, stop yelling, you're making us all look bad. Stop this. Well, the police didn't like that. Cause that's not some teenager's job to try to stop a fist fight from happening. The fans didn't like it. Cause who are you, little girl, to tell me I can't be screaming about the Beatles? And it just caused so much. Like they were fighting and yelling and screaming at each other so much before the Beatles even arrived. So once the Beatles did arrive, it was a full blown riot pretty much. And they broke the little fence that was supposed to keep the Beatles in. The Beatles like made it to that stage and like were zoop off. I think Paul said, thank you. Okay, off we go. The fans went crazy. The fans went crazy because there were these fights breaking off over who loves the Beatles the most. There was like one fan club's like, well, we have two presidents. You only have one.
- [46:08]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Well, is it that the Beatles Bobbies. Was it, was it part of a fan club? Was it something you joined?
- [46:13]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, it was considered a fan club. I mean, they got an official charter and everything.
- [46:17]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Oh, wow.
- [46:18]
Sarah Schmidt
In some of the cities that they became, they were a fan club, but they're, they had a mission to, to police the fans and they thought they were going to get support from the actual police. Like they would write to the police and like, we're here to help you. We're on your side. And the police were like, no you're not. You're just crazy fans like the rest.
- [46:41]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Of all I know. Yeah, well, they didn't listen to Mal Evans when he always warned them about how crazy it would be. So why would they listen to young girls? That's pretty, pretty typical not listening to those voices.
- [46:52]
Sarah Schmidt
Right, but you'll see pictures with the girls with the BB on their sleeves.
- [46:58]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I love it.
- [46:58]
Alison Bumstead
And too bad the Stones didn't pick up that idea. They could have sent him to Altamont.
- [47:02]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, it would have been a better result.
- [47:04]
Sarah Schmidt
Why are we fighting? Why are we fighting? But in Baltimore, the Beatles did meet with the Beatle Bobbies at the hotel.
- [47:14]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Did they? And did they behave themselves like they professed they would?
- [47:18]
Sarah Schmidt
They did. They did. I, I have the pictures of them with them. They did behave themselves. But George was like, you're who? What's your club like? So they recite their fan club pledge and he's like, like, George just did not get it. He was like, and you're doing what? What the other Beatles, I don't think they're just like, okay, they're a fan club. Get your pictures with us, we'll sign your autographs. And you'd be on your way. George, like, was trying to understand, like, and who do you represent and what, what's this on your sleeve?
- [47:52]
Interviewer/Listener
I'm afraid I don't understand.
- [47:53]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I love this though, because teen Scre. Milstead tried to do something similar and I don't know if it was before or after on the timeline, but she sent out like, you could ride into teen screen and join the Beatles Guardian Angels and she'd send you a ribbon and a membership fan club, as well as letters. I think she sent out at least I have documents of at least two letters. So it wasn't only among the fan clubs, it was in the teen magazines too. Is this idea like, let's protect our Beatles? Specifically, she. She was really into it right before the date book thing broke. And right after she's like, remember why we're here. Protect the Beatles. Don't anything happen to them. And I think it's admirable that these young women thought of it in. Even if they were petty in some ways to other fan club members. Because you're 16 and you, you're. You're so much older than a 14 year old, right? But I think it's admirable that they thought they loved them so much that they're like, I'd rather be quiet and keep you quiet than anything happen to them. We need to preserve them.
- [48:55]
Sarah Schmidt
And it's really interesting. If you look at the pictures from the Baltimore concert in 64, you see confetti being thrown. Like, there's pictures where you see fans with like confettis coming down. They're pretty cool looking pictures. You're like, well, it kind of succeeded a little bit because, I mean, there was enough that it's in the picture definitely.
- [49:16]
Alison Bumstead
Just like the Beatles had given their blessing. If the official fan club was up to speed, that could have sanctioned that and incentivized them to want to be part of Beetle Bobby's or at least follow that protocol. How it might have been different. This Beetle angel thing you're talking about, Allison, that manifested itself on the 66.
- [49:34]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Tour just right before. And then she resent out ribbons and letters just after the date book dropped.
- [49:42]
Alison Bumstead
So they would have been enforced during that tour because I'm specifically thinking of Memphis and Cherry bombs and what were they prepared to do and did they do anything?
- [49:54]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I don't know much about the. I only know about the Guardian Angels because, well, one she mentions it in a teen screen magazine, but then two, because my friend who's a collector actually found one of the ribbons and sent me a picture. And I thought, what, Wait, what is this? I knew about the Beatles bobbies from Sarah, but then when I found that, I was like, oh, that's cool that two different groups existed in this case. What would they do in that case? What can they do? I think the idea is just to be an ambassador, right. For the Guardian Angels is where are your things? Saying I love the Beatles and I'll do everything. Hey, talk to me about them. If you hate them, let me explain to you why you shouldn't hate them type thing. Whereas it sounds like the bobbies were more like, you know, holding back, trying to pretend to hold back crowds when they, they couldn't.
- [50:39]
Sarah Schmidt
That was what they wanted to do. Yeah, they, they wanted to be the police. But.
- [50:45]
Christine Feldman Barrett
But again, I think that's really important because it just shows how much respect and love they had for and cherish. It reminds me of these memes now when, when something goes wrong in the world and everyone starts dying and on Internet, someone's like, hi, David Attenborough. You know, let's protect him, let's keep him here longer. That's what, that's what I think of, like, we just rally around the idea that we want to preserve this as long, this moment as long as possible. How can we do it? Let's not lose it. And like you said, Sarah, they weren't wrong. They knew. And I know today a lot of people blame the screaming girls for the Beatles not coming. I. I mean, that's not really fair. I mean, technology wasn't what it was for the sound systems and stuff, so there's a lot of things to blame for that, but they weren't wrong in that. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send.
- [51:46]
Alison Bumstead
Event invites and pin messages so no.
- [51:48]
Christine Feldman Barrett
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Alison Bumstead
It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.
- [51:57]
Robert Rodriguez
Learn more@WhatsApp.com this podcast is supported by FX's English teacher. Last year's critically acclaimed series returns to follow Evan, Gwen and Markie as they vie for their students divided attention. See why Cosmopolitan called its premiere season.
- [52:15]
Alison Bumstead
A masterclass of comedy while glamor raved.
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Robert Rodriguez
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- [52:29]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I actually wanted to kind of further this on in the independent fan clubs. I had no idea that Elise Harrison had her own fan club or the. About the Beatles wives clubs. I knew a little bit, but not as much as I learned from your book. Did you want to talk like as an independent fan clubs, what can you tell everyone about those?
- [52:50]
Sarah Schmidt
I love the independent fan clubs. Those were so interesting to me. So if you did not want to align yourself with the Beatles official fan club, which many people didn't, because they had a lot of rules, one of which is that you couldn't advertise in a teen magazine that was like people didn't like that they had a lot of rules. So they would break off and have their own independent fan clubs which were a lot better organized than the official one. So fans would have official fan clubs for anything and everything connected with the Beatles. So there was, you know, official fan club for each member. There was official or unofficial fan clubs for each member. George had won by Pat Kintzer, which was huge. It was one of the biggest. The Paul McCartney one was really big too. The John one was big. But then John got in a lot of trouble for different things and it kind of went up and down. And then Ringo's just kept coming and going. I don't know, he never had a consistent one. But the George and Paul ones were very consistent. And then they would have fan clubs for anyone connected with the Beatles, including their wives. So there was. Cynthia had one, the Syn Linen Beatles fan club. Pattie Boyd's fan club was the Paddy Birds. Maureen's fan club was the Flying Cow.
- [54:15]
Alison Bumstead
Which you should explain was the name of the bar at his house.
- [54:18]
Sarah Schmidt
Right. Like, do you know why they called it the Flying Cow? Because that was the name of Maureen and Ringo's bar at Sunny Heights and the house where they lived at the time, which was like a little anecdote, like you had to be in the in crowd and get that little. He had to have read the little article, I think in Life magazine or something about when Ringo was redoing his house. And then Jane Asher really didn't have one. She was just kind of connected with Paul. Feelings for Jane Wayne kind of weren't good. But then she was touring the United States. Everyone wanted to see her so that everybody loved her and then they didn't love her again. So Jane was kind of kind of wishy washy with the fans. And then Louise Harrison, George's sister, started her own fan club for herself out of her home in Benton, Illinois.
- [55:16]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Uh huh. Well that got her in trouble with George. Am I correct about that?
- [55:19]
Sarah Schmidt
It got her in trouble with the Beatles organization. You know, it started like every other Beatles fan club and of course the fans wanted to hear from a Beatles sister. I mean, that's pretty cool. So they joined and she would send like information about when their brother, I think it was Peter, got married, you know, and like what kind of cake did they have? And George was the best man. And these are the. I mean it was like. And fans were. Would eat that up.
- [55:47]
Alison Bumstead
This is in the 60s?
- [55:48]
Sarah Schmidt
Yes, yes. This is 64, 65.
- [55:52]
Alison Bumstead
Because she rode that wave for a long, long time.
- [55:54]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, she did. I thought. My understanding was that George was not happy with that.
- [55:59]
Sarah Schmidt
Well, I don't think George really cared.
- [56:02]
Interviewer/Listener
I don't care.
- [56:03]
Sarah Schmidt
It was like, it is what it is, whatever. He didn't really talk out too much about it in the 60s. What got Louise in trouble was that record that she put out. And there's this record, like listen to Louise, the interview with Louise. I forget the name of it, but.
- [56:21]
Alison Bumstead
Yeah, it's a collection of radio interviews she was doing in 64.
- [56:25]
Sarah Schmidt
Right. And she would go around, she did the radio thing and then she also would go around to different cities in the Midwest and meet with fans and answer questions live like fan club members. Louise Harrison Caldwell is here and we.
- [56:39]
Interviewer/Listener
Might as well get our Beatle press.
- [56:40]
Sarah Schmidt
Conference off to a start right now.
- [56:43]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
My name is Rebecca Martin of Cambridge and when did George learn to play the guitar and did he ever have music lessons? Well, he first got a guitar when he was 14 and he is self taught. He never ever did have music lessons.
- [56:56]
Sarah Schmidt
And in his own estimation, you know.
- [56:58]
Christine Feldman Barrett
He'S still learning, he's still trying to.
- [57:00]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
Really get it to master it. Jane Daly, Dorchester are the stories that the Beatles are supposed to write in the fan magazines? Do they really write them themselves?
- [57:09]
Christine Feldman Barrett
No, no.
- [57:10]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
Really Wash to make a plane. It's obvious the Beatles can't remain together forever. Do they have any future plans? There have been rumors about a comedy team when the Beatles break up. If they do. Well, they are a comedy team. You know, Sheila Murphy conquered. What did the Beatles think of the campaign for throwing confetti in Boston? Well, it certainly doesn't hurt as much as.
- [57:36]
Sarah Schmidt
And there's this great story by D. Elias about how she faked a Beatles fan club just so she could go to the stop with like Inventions. She faked names of people. And it's this great story about. And how it ended up getting her to meet George. Wow. Eventually in Cleveland. But it started. Cause her and her friend decided they were going to make a fake Beatles fan club because they didn't know enough people in their little town. So. But it was a recording of those radio shows. And then I think on side B is her live talking to a group of teenagers in one of these meetings that she would have at libraries and stuff around the Midwest. And it said something like listen to Louise talk about the Beatles. But Beatles was on the COVID And so she got a cease and decease letter from the Beatles organization asking her, telling her, forcing her to stop everything. Fan club, the record, like no more.
- [58:39]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah.
- [58:40]
Sarah Schmidt
And she really couldn't afford it anymore. Like there's this letter about how she needs money. She wrote this big long letter and I have this copy of. And to the fans saying, you know. Oh yeah, that she can't have the fan club anymore. But.
- [58:55]
Alison Bumstead
Well, I know as of the 90s she was showing up at the fest and selling a CD version of that album that she would happily sign for you. Which I have.
- [59:04]
Sarah Schmidt
I remember that as well. She was. So I don't know what the outcome at the end of the day was in the 90s, if that was kind of lax.
- [59:14]
Alison Bumstead
It was kind of under the slide.
- [59:17]
Sarah Schmidt
I really don't know.
- [59:19]
Alison Bumstead
On the subject of Beatle women in fan clubs, one of the things that I thought was an interesting point you have in the book is that the sort of latter day fans, the fans that weren't back with them in 64 but were sort of aging into the Beatles circa 66, 67, 68, were readily accepting of Yoko and Linda because they had no frame of reference of the earlier Beatle women. So they didn't feel a need to maintain a loyalty to them.
- [59:44]
Sarah Schmidt
That's right. I was really kind of surprised by that. When I was interviewing the members and the presidents of the fan clubs in the later years, especially like 69 and up, there was one that I particularly remember from. From the Glass Apple chapter of the Beatles. I love the names, I have to say the names. I think the names are so interesting. So the Glass Apple. And I asked her, I said, well, what was your thoughts on Yoko? And she was like, we thought she was very trendy. We liked her fashion sense.
- [60:14]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
If you become naked.
- [60:16]
Sarah Schmidt
I said well, what did you think about her? And John? She goes, well, that was his girlfriend. Like ever since I got into the Beatles, like seriously that Ryoko was always part of the story. I didn't have a frame of reference of him with Cynthia. I didn't have, like, feelings one way or another. I like. Yeah, Yoko was just part of the package. I was like, wow, that's so different than what I heard, really. What the shock to me was that the overall feeling of Yoko in general was that she's weird, but nobody seemed to particularly hate her, except for a very, very small, small group of John devout people. It was Linda that got more hate than Yoko with the fan club. The fan club girls were just like, yoko's a weirdo. Because the very first thing they ever heard from her come out of her mouth was, I gave birth to a grapefruit. That was like the first thing they ever heard her say. That got brought up several times. Yeah, she gave birth to a grapefruit. What are we supposed to think about that? That's just weird, pushing that aside.
- [61:24]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, that must. That concept must have been really, you know, the avant garde and art in this. This way must have been a really new concept for some of these young Beatles fans. Just as it was to the Beatles at one point.
- [61:36]
Sarah Schmidt
Right? That is a weird thing for the first thing. You ever hear somebody say, even today, if somebody came to you and said, I gave birth to a grapefruit, you'd be like, okay, that's strange. So I could see that you get.
- [61:48]
Alison Bumstead
Two versions coming out roughly concurrent with the White Album, which has got Revolution 9 on it, which is certainly alienated to this day to a lot of fans for whatever reason. But I was surprised. And maybe it's because she was a little bit older when I had Kenny Letter on the show. As a devout Beatle fan, particularly a John fan, it's like, what did you think about two burgeons? What did you think about these sort of antics that were boomeranging back on the band? And I'm familiar with the press of 68 of how it was being looked at on the positive side as a joke. On the negative side, these guys are perverts, sexual deviants and whatever. And she said, as a young teenage fan at the time, she thought it was just part of the package that her and her crowd, granted, were more artsy, crowd more literate, thought it was funny. It wasn't something that outraged them. There was no support for the sissy space John. You've gone too far this time. Outrage. It was just like, okay, that's part of his journey. It's on brand for John being the outrageous one. End of story.
- [62:56]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, I heard that. I thought that's so different than the people I talked to. This is a different view where they just. We thought that was just so weird that we just didn't want to touch it, like, or. But they really. They really said. But we liked Yoko's style when she's wearing clothes. I guess we liked her style. We liked the clothing that she wore. Like, we looked at her for her fashion, which I thought that was interesting.
- [63:24]
Alison Bumstead
And Linda's is kind of funky. I wonder if it offended them.
- [63:27]
Sarah Schmidt
Oh, yeah. They had nothing nice to say about Linda. Down to her socks, to her clothing. She's always on Paul's arm. She's mean. She said some very mean things to the fans to this day, they hold against her.
- [63:44]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah.
- [63:45]
Alison Bumstead
Like what?
- [63:45]
Sarah Schmidt
Some of the ladies that I talked to that to this day, because she's something that she said to them in 1969 and was very upsetting.
- [63:52]
Alison Bumstead
And do you recall what I. I'm.
- [63:55]
Sarah Schmidt
Not going to say because it's not my place to say because it's all hearsay, but, you know, just things that hurt their feelings. I know the one thing in the book is that she insulted the fan club. They were all hanging around during the recording of Ram, and she came out and cussed at them and yelled and screamed and said, this isn't a fan club meeting. You need to go away. Wow. You're not wanted here. And of course, Linda grouped all the fans together, as you would. She wouldn't know. Like, these fans mean no harm. These fans are putting letters set on fire through my mailbox at Cavendish. Like, you just group them as they're trying to hurt. They're breaking into my house, stealing my pictures. They came through the bathroom window. She just groups them all as they're doing harm.
- [64:47]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I wonder if it's just because she, you know, although she was in the world, you know, in the rock world with her photography, in her own right. I just wonder if it's because it was just not something she was used to.
- [64:58]
Sarah Schmidt
Oh, I think that has a lot to do with it.
- [65:00]
Christine Feldman Barrett
She.
- [65:00]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, she was. She didn't understand, like, why are these girls not going away? Why are they just hanging out here outside the studio?
- [65:09]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah. And when you're married to, you know, with a beetle, like, you know, Paul, I can see the frustration. Yeah.
- [65:17]
Alison Bumstead
And she had a bunch of negative experiences right out of the gate, right?
- [65:19]
Sarah Schmidt
She did. Yeah.
- [65:20]
Christine Feldman Barrett
And they were mean to her. So she was mean, Brad.
- [65:22]
Sarah Schmidt
I understand it. And she did mellow out towards the fans a lot. Like, once Waiting. Things started and club sandwich. And she got to kind of know some of these fans as the regulars as they were. I think things really changed. But there is a group to this day that's like, we have no use for Linda. I don't care that she changed. She was so mean to us.
- [65:44]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Well, poor Linda got. Still gets hers right. With what? How people talk about her and her vocals and Wings and so.
- [65:52]
Sarah Schmidt
And I love Linda's like, one of my favorite wives.
- [65:56]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Oh, I love Linda.
- [65:57]
Sarah Schmidt
That part was hard for me to read.
- [66:00]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah.
- [66:00]
Sarah Schmidt
But.
- [66:01]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, well, Linda was young too. I mean.
- [66:03]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, well.
- [66:04]
Alison Bumstead
Yeah, you guys have seen the footage. Like the day of the Paul leaves the Beatles announcement outside of Apple.
- [66:10]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah. And they talked to Carol Bedford and she's like, Linda says jump. Paul's like, how high? Yeah, that's Carol Bedford. That says that when the Raffles scraps.
- [66:21]
Shopify Advertiser
Yeah.
- [66:23]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Which usually people now focus on John and Yoko and what Yoko's look like.
- [66:27]
Sarah Schmidt
Right. And that was the surprise to me was that John and Yoko, the original shock of divorcing Cynthia, once they got past that, it was like, Yoko's just there. Okay, whatever. She's weird, but she's there.
- [66:42]
Christine Feldman Barrett
She's interesting.
- [66:44]
Sarah Schmidt
They weren't pro.
- [66:45]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Weren't.
- [66:46]
Sarah Schmidt
Weren't one way or the other. But Linda was like, linda's gotta go. Which I was surprised that that was not the stereotype that we're used to.
- [66:54]
Alison Bumstead
The Yoko hostile certainly ginned up over time and maybe more during the solo years than the end of the Beatle years. Because, you know, when you have showcases of her on a microphone intervening in this Chuck Berry duet with John Lennon, things like that, and the records that she was putting out that were what they were over musical backing. I'm old enough to remember when I first was seeing Let It Be in a theater, which would have been early 80s, the hissing every time she appeared on screen. And I'm talking about at the fest.
- [67:27]
Sarah Schmidt
Oh, yeah. When I started going to the fest.
- [67:30]
Alison Bumstead
Presumably in a room full of hardcore Beatle fans.
- [67:32]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah.
- [67:33]
Alison Bumstead
But it would happen with Linda, too. The two seconds of Linda you see in Let It Be where she walks in the door.
- [67:37]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I want to be very clear that it's not just the women hissing, because a lot of people will listen and think all these women were so mean to each other. And it's like, well, hold on, hold on. It goes both ways in this world. On the hissing and the booing and the talking about Yoko and Linda on the male side as well.
- [67:55]
Alison Bumstead
You bring up a good point right there. That I want to address which Sarah is the stereotype of Beatle fandom in the 60s. Screaming Girls. You think of fan clubs, you think of girls. How much of a male presence was there both in being part of the fan club and running them? One of the things you do point out in the book is that there was some male run fan club where it was more about the music rather than emotional thing. So talk about that a little bit.
- [68:23]
Sarah Schmidt
In the early days it was almost exclusively girls. I mean maybe 1% guys. I mean it was very few. You'll see every once in a while there'll be one lone male in the fan club in a picture or a name of one guy. And then as the years progress and the touring years stop, more men become. More boys become involved. I did speak to the first area secretary. Secretary who was a man. It was. Oh, actually he was a young boy. Cause he lied about his age. He was from Louisiana, his name was Richard and he was. And you know, that was kind of a big deal. They said you're the first boy. Like, wow, we've never had a boy before. Like it was kind of like this weird thing, but he was really into it. And then you started to get more fan club and charters where there was a male presence, more boys were joining the fan clubs and then was focused, like you said, on the music more than on what's Paul's favorite color, who is who, what kind of toothpaste does Ringo use? Those questions that would come up all the time. They were more focused on the music. What instruments were being used and bootlegs. When those became big, they really wanted to talk about the comeback album was a big topic towards the later years.
- [69:59]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Are there any female run fan club clips that talked about. Because I imagine there'd be some that talked about the music as well.
- [70:05]
Sarah Schmidt
Sure, yeah, yeah. They always had like record reviews and things like that in their newsletters. It's just they also would include personal things. It was kind of half and half the fan club newsletters I have that was all mail run. They just. It's just simply music reviews of bootlegs.
- [70:29]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Is that because it comes later and we know a lot of those facts. Do you think like when, when are these mail run fan clubs coming?
- [70:36]
Sarah Schmidt
69, 70, 71, 69.
- [70:40]
Christine Feldman Barrett
So the, the colors and food stuff would already. I mean everyone would, would know, right? Well, they still that information. So maybe in the female clubs they're still doing it.
- [70:50]
Sarah Schmidt
They did that all the way to the end. It was okay. Although there was another divide between fans like they, they called those girls the Paulie girls. You're still in the Paulie stage, where, oh, Paulie's so cute. We're more mature. We're in the Paul McCartney stage. That was kind of how they.
- [71:12]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Oh, I love this.
- [71:14]
Sarah Schmidt
That was kind of the divide, like. And there was lots of debates about what should we be talking about.
- [71:22]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Oh, well, that's really fascinating though, because I think these are elements that most people think is the food and the colors. But there are elements and there are divides, like you saw with the Beatles Bobbies. These are very intricate and segmented communities where you start to see these. And I think that's. Is that something you see as it progresses? You see the Pollys and the Paul McCartney?
- [71:43]
Sarah Schmidt
Well, you see that there's always new Beatle fans coming around, just like there is today. There's always this young 1112 year old girls, boys joining the forces and they want to know the basics.
- [72:00]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, they have to, you know, and.
- [72:02]
Sarah Schmidt
So they're joining the fan club, wanting to know, so what's Paul's favorite color, guys? And you got these people who had been fans for four years and they're now in their early 20s going, who cares about that? You're just in that you're a poly. We want to talk about what's his beliefs and why is he recording the McCartney album. And it's very interesting.
- [72:27]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I think that still stands today because people who quiz me the most on what I know are usually male fans. If they hear I don't tell anyone I know, like when we're going out, meeting new people, I'm like, don't say anything to me about me and the Beatles. Because the first question is like, not only is, who's your favorite beetle? Which is a really annoying female question. I feel like, oh, I love telling.
- [72:46]
Sarah Schmidt
Everyone who my favorite Beatle is.
- [72:50]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Well, mine changes often, but, but it's often like a quiz, like what do you know? And it's the basic questions that they often accuse the polys, as you said, or girls knowing. But I, I get asked those questions too. Just the basic things. Did you know about this? Did you know about this? And I'm like, you know, it's not a quiz show. This is not trivia.
- [73:09]
Sarah Schmidt
Right? This is a trivia night.
- [73:11]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Talk about the music too. I don't know if I'm asked those questions because they think that's what I know because of my gender or what. But that is something I wanted to know about this. So that, that's really clarifying. Like, do you Think like, as the, the magazines, the. The. I'm sorry, as the fan clubs. Wrong world are moving forward. The fan clubs that you see in the 70s, 80s, 90s are. Are there. And are there still some today? Like, what's the progression?
- [73:40]
Sarah Schmidt
Like, that is actually what I want to write about next is the, like, what happened after the Beatles fan clubs all ended in 1972, when they officially ended. What happened next? But there aren't. There isn't an official Beatles fan club. It ended in 1972. They never. Apple never had another fan club for the Beatles in any way, shape or form after that. It was all independently. Like, I was in the St. Louis Beatles Fan Club in the 90s. But with the birth of the Internet really taking off, the need for fan clubs kind of died. Even though I still think it's nice to get together, that's why I still go to Beatle conventions. Is it because I care about all the stuff they're talking about? Not really. I want to get together with other fans and, you know, the same fans that I've gotten together with for 30 years, I want to, you know, get together with my buddies there. I think that's missing with the Internet in between.
- [74:42]
Alison Bumstead
In the 70s, in the period when I'm starting to get into fandom, you had the fanzines.
- [74:46]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yes.
- [74:47]
Alison Bumstead
Which was another way of sort of collating fandom and information and talking about music, talking about, oh, Paul's on tour this year or whatever, that kind of thing. It filled the gap for sure.
- [74:59]
Sarah Schmidt
Yes, definitely. And the people that run those considered that to be a fan club. They considered. Yeah.
- [75:07]
Alison Bumstead
You mentioned Barb Fennec a lot in the book.
- [75:08]
Sarah Schmidt
Yes, yes. I got to meet her for the first time last year, which was like meeting a hero of mine because she did so much. She did so much for the Beatles fan world.
- [75:20]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Oh, I love those moments.
- [75:22]
Sarah Schmidt
From the mid-60s all the way through the 80s, she did so much and, you know, and there she was. It was like, oh, my gosh, you're parfentic.
- [75:30]
Alison Bumstead
Yeah, that's awesome.
- [75:31]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Sarah, the thing you end your book with, which I really like, is the concept of, like, lasting friendships and relationships in regards to these fan clubs. Can you speak to those lasting friendships and relationships?
- [75:45]
Sarah Schmidt
A lot of the fan club members are still friends to this day, you know, 60 years later, and they still get together. There is, you know, the New York City area fan club were big because there's, you know, just were a lot of fans. They still get together. They have their whole, whole little Facebook group that's just for them there. They trade their pictures and they get together and have lunch like they last. The the Beatles don't realize how many friendships and relationships they have have birthed over the years. It's just amazing. And you know, being in a Beatles fan club was so much more. Or waiting outside the Dakota or waiting outside when Paul was recording Ran was so much more than seeing a Beatle walk by. It was about that friendship and the relationships that you were making with like minded people, which gets lost, you know, the seeing Paul walk by was kind of like icing on the cake for a lot of these. Like, oh wow, there he is. But it was the moments and the shared memories and the inside jokes and all the things that happened while you were waiting there that really shaped these people into who they are.
- [77:03]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Now that's really lonely.
- [77:06]
Alison Bumstead
Well said to circle back to. We were talking about male clubs coming along later. I was wondering if 2-10-64, the day after the 73 million saw them on the Sullivan show, if girls would have gravitated more toward the clubs because they are more naturally social and community oriented, I think towards something they love and feel deep emotions toward. Whereas I think a guy's place of putting what he just witnessed and was drawn into would be to grow his hair and start a band. And that was like the sort of more normalized social paradigm at that time until it wasn't. Girls certainly could be musicians to inform bands, but I think it was a more natural thing for guys who tend to be more oriented toward teams and that sort of group mentality of focusing toward one goal. Does that make any sense to you?
- [78:05]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, I think you're right on target with that. That it was more of a female social thing, you know, and they were a group of four handsome men that, you know. So the girls want to get together and talk about who do you think's the cutest.
- [78:21]
Christine Feldman Barrett
But I think it's important to note that the idea of them being active is really, really important because often they say like this is a passive way to be a fan. But it's really not because they're engaged in the community spending their time. You know, people forget what it's like before the Internet and before, you know, when even phone calls cost a lot of money. So you weren't on the phone too long. And. And this is the. This is a way to get together. It's not necessarily hidden in a bedroom. It's out loud and in public. And some girls did form bands, right, based off of the Beatles as well.
- [78:57]
Sarah Schmidt
Sure, yeah, that was all part of.
- [78:59]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Part of it just to circle back and I know this can maybe be edited to be put back in the middle of the conversation or not. Speaking of fan clubs responding to John Lennon's comments in Date book. Well, originally, obviously the London Evening Standard for those Maureen Cleave die hard fans, but the reprinting of the article, even though clearly that was not the intention of the gaining focus based off the COVID and something else on the COVID What were the fan clubs? Did the fan clubs were respond to this?
- [79:30]
Sarah Schmidt
Oh, yes.
- [79:31]
Christine Feldman Barrett
So I know the teen magazines did, but I wasn't, you know. How did they respond to this?
- [79:34]
Sarah Schmidt
They definitely responded. A lot of emergency meetings were held. Like we got an emergency Beetle fans, we gotta get together. So they held emergency meetings to talk about what do we think about this? Just have a conversation among what's our response? We have a crisis, what do we think about this? And overall they all were supporting John. They might not have supported what he said, but they supported his right to say it.
- [80:02]
Interviewer/Listener
Were you upset by what they said?
- [80:04]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
Yes, sir, I just. I was real upset. My whole family was. They couldn't believe that they had said that.
- [80:09]
Sarah Schmidt
Why were you so shocked?
- [80:11]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
Well, I mean, I go to church and I listen to what people say and I believe enough to when something like that happens for it to upset me.
- [80:18]
Sarah Schmidt
Did you have any Beatles records you shot?
- [80:19]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
Yes, I had about four albums and a lot of 45s and I don't have them anymore.
- [80:24]
Interviewer/Listener
What have you done with them?
- [80:25]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
I've given them wacky. I don't think they were comparing themselves to Jesus. I think they were deploring the fact that teenagers, you know, like rock and roll better than Christianity.
- [80:37]
Interviewer/Listener
But John did call the Christ Disciples thick and ordinary. Isn't that a pretty offensive thing to say? Well.
- [80:46]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
Not really. I think I agree with him.
- [80:48]
Sarah Schmidt
I heard a lot of. I don't agree with what John said at all. I'm a Christian. I don't think the Beatles are more popular than Jesus. But John had a right to say that. That was the overall arching belief of the fan clubs. Some fan clubs did a counter protest across the street where they were burning Beatles stuff. I know there was one that was trying to like Blair by singing Yellow Submarine as loud as they can, which had just been released and holding signs like we stand with John. All is well with jwl. Those signs that they were there holding trying to say, you know, we're the fan club and we stand with John. Some fan club members, parents forced them to burn their Beatles stuff and quit the fan club, which is very sad. It made me very sad to read about how, you know, they were forced to throw all their wonderful memorabilia that's worth lots of money today into a fire.
- [81:49]
Interviewer/Listener
But are you burning your Beatles right now? Yes, sir, I burn them. You burned them all yourself? I've already burned them. How did you do it?
- [81:55]
Sarah Schmidt
I mean, where?
- [81:56]
Christine Feldman Barrett
How?
- [81:57]
Interviewer/Listener
Well, our Sunday school at nyf, we had a program about the Beatles, and we have supper at nyf and it was in our backyard. So after we'd finished cooking the hot dogs, I just put my records on there.
- [82:09]
Alison Bumstead
Did you talk to these people?
- [82:11]
Sarah Schmidt
Years later, I could not find anyone. I could not find a single person who would talk about burning their Beatles stuff like I was against John. I cannot find anyone who's willing to talk about that today.
- [82:23]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I couldn't either say that.
- [82:25]
Alison Bumstead
I would love to hear what kind of PTSD they would have over there. Like, was that the turning point where they turned against their parents today? It was still raw.
- [82:34]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, I found this, too, because I obviously wanted to talk about it. Because I talk about this, because obviously I talk about teen fan magazines that. That encourages them inadvertently. And I have struggled, too. I have struggled as well. Maybe they buried this memory or they did let the Beatles go, you know?
- [82:51]
Sarah Schmidt
Right.
- [82:52]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I think Debbie talks about it in her book that she says that people would pay her to join fan clubs and. Excuse me if I'm wrong, but, like, join fan clubs for her, get the information at their house.
- [83:03]
Alison Bumstead
As a front.
- [83:04]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, yeah, as a front. Like, they found ways around it if they weren't allowed in. But isn't that heartbreaking?
- [83:10]
Sarah Schmidt
Right? But I can't find anyone who actually put. That had their Beatles memorabilia and put it in a fire. I cannot. Yeah, but there were some fan clubs that were formed just as a response. There was the B E A T L E S. And I don't remember it stood for something, but the EL stood for Lennon because it was in support of John. And like, they formed their own club just to show their support for John.
- [83:39]
Christine Feldman Barrett
You know, and this. These are important moments.
- [83:42]
Sarah Schmidt
I know I have a picture of the. Because I own the. The membership card, so I know I have a picture.
- [83:46]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, yeah, it's in the book. And it's. It's. It's so cool because these are important moments just to remind us, like, when we think of who makes the band, you know, the fans are just. Just so integral and success of a band. And the Beatles fans did not let them down on that, did not let them down at all.
- [84:04]
Sarah Schmidt
They did not. And you know, they still showed up.
- [84:07]
Christine Feldman Barrett
To the concerts and, and they're still active today.
- [84:10]
Sarah Schmidt
They still were there. Yeah.
- [84:12]
Alison Bumstead
Something that came across to me reading the book, when you, you see some of the expressions from the fans who were joining fan clubs is how intensely emotional it is. It's like they were feeling these feelings and needed a place to put it and this was the place to put it. I'm wondering if you think that that has changed through the years, that people have other outlets for that sort of expression of devotion toward people they will never meet or if that was unique to that time and unique to the age these girls were at that time.
- [84:43]
Sarah Schmidt
I think it's still, it's a way of expressing yourself as you are going through puberty. Like it's natural and I think it has a change. It's just the people change.
- [84:55]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah.
- [84:56]
Sarah Schmidt
I just read that book Swoon.
- [84:58]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Oh, did you? I haven't read it yet.
- [85:00]
Sarah Schmidt
It's so good, you know, and it talks about like Beethoven that girls were throwing like way back. And I was like, it's the same thing. Like it ends with Beatlemania, it doesn't go on till today, it ends with the Beatles, but it goes way, way back. And it's funny to me because it's like, you know, 12, 13 year old girl is behaving the same way all throughout life, like forever. And it just, it was really, really fascinating.
- [85:29]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah.
- [85:30]
Sarah Schmidt
So I think, you know, the people change, but it's the same reaction. I think the Beatles were bigger because you had the baby boomers, you had more teenagers at a time than ever. And again it was four people instead of just one. So it like got multiplied by four for the first time, which they point that out in this book. Swoon. That like before it was always Frank Sinatra, it was Elvis, it was Beethoven, you know, it was one person. But for the first time it's like multiplied times four and you have more people.
- [86:05]
Alison Bumstead
Right.
- [86:06]
Christine Feldman Barrett
When you also have the teenage dollar, which didn't exist, you know, in the 19th century.
- [86:11]
Sarah Schmidt
Right. Yeah.
- [86:13]
Christine Feldman Barrett
So you have that teenage dollar and then you have the media as well. The magazines, the media and Ellison Television, quite that reach just because it took so long for companies to realize how much money they could make off of these bands and encourage that frenzy of buying and going forward. And I actually have a question just to go back to. One of the very first questions about writing this book now I found in my work is that, you know, part of the reason for teen fan magazines That a book didn't exist is because of the dismissal of the magazines in general being seen as ephemeral and for girls and unimportant. Did you find a similar thread when you were looking at the reason maybe the fan club history had not been recorded?
- [87:01]
Sarah Schmidt
No, I never thought about it. I just jumped in and started researching it. I never really thought, why hasn't this been. I wasn't that deep into. Wasn't until I read your book that I started thinking along those lines.
- [87:15]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Well, do you think now, like, do you think that. That maybe that could have been part of the reason or it just hadn't been recorded?
- [87:22]
Sarah Schmidt
That could have been. I don't know. I don't know if it's. I don't know if people just aren't interested in the topic. I mean, honestly, the book doesn't sell that well. I haven't sold that many copies of it. I don't. I don't know. I know it's a real niche topic. I don't know if it's something that in the big picture of the Beatles, people just aren't interested in.
- [87:40]
Alison Bumstead
I think they will be after they hear this conversation, number one. And number two, speaking as the Beatle quote unquote historians that we are, if you are interested enough and passionate enough about the Beatles to want to know all there is to know that's knowable, it is another one of these things in plain sight, like fan magazines, that you will learn an incredible amount from that you didn't know before and give you greater context for everything that was going on in the 60s that makes this phenomenon so much more understandable. And it gives me hope when you see things like a Beatles 64 get produced, that there is more context to be added, there is more insight and layers to understanding why this is and why the hell we're still talking about it 60 years later.
- [88:28]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah. And Sarah's book is full to plug her book. I love her book. It's full of amazing imagery and then like documents and forms and things that if you're, you know, a Beatles nut, this is the way to go. You get to see original pictures from fans. Right. Sarah. That others wouldn't else be there, that they've given to you and stories that.
- [88:50]
Sarah Schmidt
Have never been shared before. Because when I talked to the fans, I said, I've never heard this before. And they said, no one's ever asked me before.
- [88:58]
Christine Feldman Barrett
And they trust you.
- [88:59]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah.
- [89:00]
Christine Feldman Barrett
And they trust you.
- [89:01]
Sarah Schmidt
They do. It took a while. They thought I was going to write some kind of scandalous. Book. I don't know what kind of book they thought I was writing, but I'm like, no, I'm not writing, like some tell all. It's like the history of the Beatles fan clubs.
- [89:15]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, I got that. I got that from one person. I bought a bunch of routine sets and I asked her, can I. Could I ask you, were they yours? She's like, yeah, I was like, can we talk about them? I didn't do any of the drugs. And I was like, well, wait, what?
- [89:27]
Sarah Schmidt
Right, I got some of that. Like, what do you think?
- [89:30]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I think.
- [89:31]
Sarah Schmidt
I know. They were like, I just met him at the hotel and that's all that happened.
- [89:35]
Alison Bumstead
And I was like, don't believe what you were told.
- [89:39]
Christine Feldman Barrett
It's like, oh, something else. And they don't want to share, but we don't want to. We're not out to scandalize. We just want to know because. Because we're fascinated by, you know, this part of history that's not been told. And I think, Sarah, you do an excellent job in here with unknown stories. I know that. I have a colleague, Steve Davis, who is interested. He's in Houston, a professor in Houston, and he was interested in Houston and the Beatles. And I said, hey, there's some names in here. You might want to follow up with what he did. And I think he was successful with that too. So I was like, because of this book. It's. I know I cited it in my recent piece because the Beatles, Bobbies and Ringover Presidents.
- [90:17]
Sarah Schmidt
I appreciate that.
- [90:18]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I know he will.
- [90:20]
Sarah Schmidt
It was really a passionate love for the Beatles is why I wrote it. That was really my reasoning because at the end of the day, I'm a Beatles fan.
- [90:30]
Alison Bumstead
Yeah, right, Absolutely. And it's an untold story. And you develop this niche sort of organically, starting with Meet the Beatles for real. And this seems to be a natural outgrowth of that, for sure.
- [90:40]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, it is.
- [90:41]
Alison Bumstead
I was gonna ask you, do you.
- [90:42]
Robert Rodriguez
Get a sense of.
- [90:44]
Alison Bumstead
In your research now, naturally, most of your primary sources are going to be the people that were in the fan clubs and whatever ephemera and written word stuff you can track down. Did you get a sense from anybody you talk to? I don't know how inside you were able to get. But what did the Beatles get out of this? Or what did the organization. It started talking about 68 them, sort of trying to shut down everything, all the independents. To what end? I mean, it seems like they, by that time had sussed out that fan clubs were a good thing, but they wanted it to be their fan club, the official sanctioned one. And why would they have seen the independents who were doing it so much better as a threat? What was their goal?
- [91:28]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Can I add to that question?
- [91:29]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, go ahead.
- [91:30]
Christine Feldman Barrett
As you're answering. So I just. I want to add to that question so as you answer, you can think about this, too. I know. My understanding is the licensing that Brian handled at the very beginning was. Was bad. Right, right. Bad choices, lots of bad, bad money decisions and lost money and all that is this. I want to add to Roberts. Is that part of that conversation, too, as you're thinking about his question?
- [91:55]
Sarah Schmidt
That really wasn't part of it.
- [91:56]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Brad. Brad running it. Okay, okay.
- [91:58]
Sarah Schmidt
It was. They were wanting control of the Beatle.
- [92:02]
Alison Bumstead
Narrative than is now.
- [92:04]
Sarah Schmidt
And. Right. And what the independent fan clubs were doing, they were getting information from anywhere and everywhere. They had the magazine from Italy come in, and they would figure out what it says and say what that, you know, they were grabbing little pieces wherever they could. And the Beatle organization just wanted the truth. Because these independent fan clubs were like. Well, they would say, like, yoko's pregnant and Yoko wasn't pregnant. Or, you know, like, they would take rumors and publish them as facts. Because I see they didn't know what the truth was, so. But the Beatles, they wanted to control what was out there. So even I know one thing that was shared, that one of the organization, one of the independent fan clubs wanted to publish that Monkberry Moon Delight was the rolling papers that Paul McCartney used to roll his marijuana. And they knew this because they looked in the window of his car and saw a rolling paper that said Monkberry Moon Delight. And they published that in their newsletter. But they were connected with the official, because they had to be by that point. And they said, you can't put that in there. Paul McCartney doesn't smoke marijuana. No, we don't. No, no, no, no. Right. We can't have that. That is not what that song's about. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. So that, you know, they were trying to still, even after all those years, protect the image, control the Beatles narrative. That was part of it. And they just. They wanted the control. They thought they could do it all better, which in some instances, they could. What is sad is that they sent out the cease and desist letter to 144 teenage girls. And in it, okay, to this day, like, recently, these girls just found out that this was a form letter. They thought it was a personal letter to them all this time. And it said, the Beatles are ashamed or they're Embarrassed. Some wording like that of your independent fan club because you're selling pictures without copyright and you're illegally. Now if you were a 15, 16 year old girl and your whole life is around this Beatles fan club that you're running, like that is your baby. That's what you spend all your babysitting money on, all your stuff. And you get a letter saying that the Beatles are embarrassed by your fan club. What do you do? What do you do? Like that would be so devastating. Absolutely. It makes me so sad when I read that letter. Right. You know, there's a copy of it in the book. It's just devastating.
- [94:56]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I wonder why they didn't think about their audience when they were sending that. That just sounds so unbelievably corporate and unhuman. And I don't to want think that, you know, I know Paul. I think he, you know, liked his fans out front. I don't, you know, they were in front of his instead of John's and so I just don't, I don't feel like that's. Maybe John talked to the Apple scruffs and regulars like that sometime, but I mean, I just don't feel like they would have told that to their young fans. I just don't feel like that's what they would have said.
- [95:29]
Sarah Schmidt
No, of course, it was just made up for that to get that emotional reaction and have them to stay in their club.
- [95:36]
Alison Bumstead
Which were they signed Linda, Most of.
- [95:39]
Sarah Schmidt
No, they weren't. They were now Nat was who signed it.
- [95:43]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Detrimental to Linda.
- [95:46]
Sarah Schmidt
Right. But one fan club did not bow down. Well, two didn't at the beginning, and that's Barb Fenix Beatles Rule. She would not do it. She talked to a lawyer who said they, they can't. You can have your little fan club, you know. And so she took a poll of her fan club members. Do you want to remain independent or do you want to join the official club? Oh my goodness. Sandy. I got the letters back and forth. Sandy Morse had a fit. You can't ask them that. They don't have a say. You have to join. They're like. And she was like, no, we're gonna stay independent. And she stayed independent until she decided, all right, I'm done. Yeah, like 1970 or so. And then she started the Right Thing later in the 70s, which was kind of still an offshoot from Beatles Rule, which was called Father Lennon's Many Children to begin with. All the same thing with Barb fitting. And then the George Harrison fan club also wouldn't join Because George had signed a charter and said, like, he agrees with her fan club. Like, he already gave his stamp of approval. So she's like, I don't need to join. I got George's approval already.
- [97:02]
Christine Feldman Barrett
That's awesome.
- [97:03]
Sarah Schmidt
But then George came out and said, I really want you to join. And so how do you argue with George?
- [97:08]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, awesome. Love it. That's cool.
- [97:12]
Sarah Schmidt
But those two really stood there. Stood till the end. But Barb never did. She remained independent so she could advertise in fan magazines and nobody came after her.
- [97:24]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Do we know the numbers of the fan clubs? I can't remember if you have the exact numbers in your book.
- [97:29]
Sarah Schmidt
There are the numbers. They were small, like less than a thousand even.
- [97:33]
Christine Feldman Barrett
But what about for the Beatles Limited in the late 60s?
- [97:36]
Sarah Schmidt
Oh, the late 60s at the end was 20,000.
- [97:41]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Okay.
- [97:41]
Sarah Schmidt
I can see that it got up to. Well, like in the main it got up really high.
- [97:47]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, close to 100,000.
- [97:49]
Alison Bumstead
Really?
- [97:49]
Sarah Schmidt
Wow. It was. There was a lot, a lot of people.
- [97:52]
Christine Feldman Barrett
The fan clubs, I mean, Robert, you gotta remember 16 magazine at its peak was selling almost a million copies. Yeah. I'm not surprised 100,000 would join at the very beginning. I'm actually surprised it's not even more.
- [98:04]
Alison Bumstead
I'm not surprised in theory, but $2.
- [98:05]
Christine Feldman Barrett
This is a lot of money.
- [98:06]
Sarah Schmidt
But $2 was a lot of money.
- [98:08]
Christine Feldman Barrett
$2, a lot of money. It was only a dollar to join Capital's teen set Club. That got you some records and letters.
- [98:15]
Sarah Schmidt
And then the independent fan club would have its own dues or the charter. If you were in the official fan club and then you were in a chartered club, which the independent fan clubs all became chartered if they wanted to, then they had their dues as well. So you couldn't really afford to join a bunch of different chartered clubs. So if you liked Patty and you liked Maureen, you kind of had to pick.
- [98:39]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, you couldn't afford all of them.
- [98:40]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, you couldn't afford all of them.
- [98:42]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Is it like a pressure would hold on to the money in their house or.
- [98:46]
Sarah Schmidt
But it was all used back for mailing. For cop. The mimeograph. Yeah, some of them got their own mimeograph machines. They were always raising money for that. They're always asking for stamps. Send me stamps.
- [99:01]
Alison Bumstead
Do any of these exist today? Independent fan clubs that deal with mail?
- [99:07]
Sarah Schmidt
No, no.
- [99:09]
Alison Bumstead
Just wondering because there might be some old school people that keep soldering on at this point.
- [99:15]
Sarah Schmidt
Joyce, who did, with a little help from my friends. She. And she was in a lot of the original fan clubs. She does not do online. And she will send me postcards like we're pen pals on the regular. Okay.
- [99:29]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah.
- [99:29]
Sarah Schmidt
Which I love. I love that she'll send me like a picture that she took off the TV of the Beatles and turned it into a postcard and she'll write, dear Sarah, hope you're doing well. And she'll send me a postcard.
- [99:43]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Ah, well, it's the same for the teen fan magazines that they don't exist anymore. A few maybe in the uk but in the US if you look at the stands, they're not there anymore. They don't need.
- [99:53]
Sarah Schmidt
No, they're not there anymore. That's sad.
- [99:55]
Christine Feldman Barrett
You know, you don't. It's just so easy to. Even Tiger Beats website died. It's off.
- [100:01]
Sarah Schmidt
So what are the teenagers doing? Printing them out. Like printing out the picture?
- [100:05]
Christine Feldman Barrett
No, they just have them on their phones, you know, now you can get like.
- [100:08]
Sarah Schmidt
What are they decorating their worms with?
- [100:10]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, that's a great. That's a great question. They do. But the ones I see now are all anime decorated or all Japanese cultural hello Kitty. Not just hello Kitty, but like other. And other stuff. I don't know.
- [100:23]
Alison Bumstead
Right, Anime stuff.
- [100:24]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, anime stuff and whatnot.
- [100:27]
Sarah Schmidt
So they don't have like Taylor Swift posters or.
- [100:31]
Christine Feldman Barrett
They do. You can still buy posters like at Spencer's, at Walmart, at Hobby Lobby and. And stuff like that.
- [100:37]
Sarah Schmidt
But you can't tear out the pictures from the teen magazines.
- [100:41]
Christine Feldman Barrett
No, you can buy a few. Like there's. There's special issues on Tay Tay. I'm writing a piece on Taylor right now, so I'm really into that. Let's see, on Taylor and some others. And of course the Beatles. They still do special issues on Paul and the Beatles all the time.
- [100:56]
Alison Bumstead
No time life.
- [100:57]
Christine Feldman Barrett
That hasn't changed.
- [100:58]
Sarah Schmidt
I stopped buying them. I used to always buy them and I've stopped because it's the same thing, it's the same article.
- [101:04]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, yeah, I know the information. But you can still buy those like at the checkout stands. And if you go into Barnes and Noble, they surprisingly still have quite a large magazine section. But you can find really young activity magazines or like 17, which would be. But that's not. That's not how. What I would describe a team Pen magazine.
- [101:24]
Sarah Schmidt
Right, right.
- [101:25]
Christine Feldman Barrett
That's more of a lifestyle. It's very different. So. Or you know, Team Cosmo. I don't know if that even still exists either. But yeah, these things are just fading away. I wonder if it will come back though, Sarah, because maybe in the form of Taylor Swift or Beyonce or something. Someone new. Because that desire to be off the phone is so strong that every Texas school has banned cell phones in the schools. Like you can.
- [101:49]
Sarah Schmidt
Oh, yeah, yeah. That's a thing.
- [101:52]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Right. Because people are. And myself included. In the last year or two, especially during COVID that phone became more integral in my life, which I hate. So I love having to open books and magazines. Like, you know, I want to open them to get there. So I wonder if that will come back. I do letters and postcards and stamps still. I'm obsessed. But it does seem to be hard to get people to write back. They'll text me. Oh, I got your card. Thanks. Okay.
- [102:20]
Sarah Schmidt
But as for fan beetles stuff, it's all online, right?
- [102:25]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah. Or in festival or.
- [102:28]
Sarah Schmidt
Right. Unless there's some kind of convention, festival, conference. That's the only opportunity you have to.
- [102:35]
Alison Bumstead
Get together, one of you may know. How long did Club Sandwich go? Did that die with Linda?
- [102:40]
Sarah Schmidt
It did.
- [102:41]
Alison Bumstead
Okay, so that we were talking, what, 96 or something like that?
- [102:44]
Sarah Schmidt
98. Yeah. Yeah.
- [102:47]
Alison Bumstead
Whatever it was. So it would have been well into the computer age, starting to be a thing.
- [102:53]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah.
- [102:53]
Alison Bumstead
Not really smartphones, per se, but yeah. It was still not considered old school, I would think, at that point, because I know I had a ton of magazine subscriptions by then as well.
- [103:04]
Christine Feldman Barrett
I still have. I still get a magazine sent to my house. Magazines, like, even 16 died in 2001. Tiger beat in, like, I don't know, 2018ish. Right. So they lasted into the Internet age. Because I wasn't on the Internet even in the mid 2000s. I wasn't really on it. Still dial up our expensive WI Fi.
- [103:27]
Alison Bumstead
So what would you say is the most surprising thing you learned in doing the research for this book?
- [103:33]
Sarah Schmidt
Gosh, there were so many things that the thing with Yoko really did surprise me. I thought I was going to get a lot of Yoko 8. And that. That surprised me. I think how active the fans were for different causes. You know, they would adopt, like through Compassion International or Child International. Adopt a child. That was a real popular thing that they did. And the George Harrison fan club even would send her Beatle records. Their child that they adopted, they sent her Beatle records. And then they raised money for her to have a bicycle and a record player. Like, it was.
- [104:16]
Alison Bumstead
I was gonna say a turntable.
- [104:19]
Sarah Schmidt
Yeah, they got a turn. Well, that was the first. It was turntable. And then they sent her Beatle records. And then a bicycle is like the next thing. So, like, I never really thought about that aspect of a fan club, that how much they did for their community and then for the world. Like the John Lennon fan club was begging their fans not to send Julian Christmas presents but to donate to your local charity for children because Julian will have all the Christmas presents that he could possibly need. But there's children in your own city that won't have Christmas. So in the name of John Lennon, buy a Christmas present for a child in need. Like just that surprised me that they were so active and trying to do good for the name of the Beatles.
- [105:08]
Alison Bumstead
One of the things that surprised me in the book. You describe the visits, especially in the latter days of a Ringo, a George dropping by the fan club.
- [105:18]
Sarah Schmidt
Oh yeah, you know, they really valued the fan clubs like all four of them did. Brian really instilled that into them early on. Like these are important people in your success. They're the ones buying your records and they're the ones telling others to buy your record. Like they're putting in a lot of work, they're not getting paid for it to promote you, like so you need to respect that, see what they're doing, value it. Yeah, honor them like I do think it's funny though, there was one time one of the meetings and the girl says, yeah, I'm from your fan club. And John says, oh, we're supposed to be nice to you.
- [106:00]
Christine Feldman Barrett
You think? I know a lot of people listening will wonder why we haven't mentioned Frida Kelly and did she have any influence? I, I know some people have seen the documentary Good old Frieda. I've talked to Frida in Liverpool, she is out and about sometimes. I have met her myself. It was really cool. Do you think she had an influence over the North American? Because you focus on North American. So do you think she had any influence with the North American club?
- [106:23]
Sarah Schmidt
She had very little influence. She did not have very much to do with the North American fan club. She that she did talk to two members she did try to encourage. They talked to her during that first Beatles convention over phone, which you know is pretty amazing. And she was trying to encourage them to join the official fan club and not be independent because then they would get the official information and they would get the Christmas record, you know. And she recommended like Kathy Burns when she ended her Cynthia Lennon fan club because Cynthia and John divorced, she ended it. Frida recommended that she be an area secretary. So she like was kind of knew some things but for the day to day she was. It was run totally different. Originally when I was gonna write my book about the fan clubs. It was just gonna be about the fan clubs or the Beatles. And I quickly realized, like the British one and the American one was so different. Like you couldn't write one book about both of them at the same. Like I couldn't figure out how to do it because they were so vastly different. Right.
- [107:38]
Alison Bumstead
I would have thought in 68 is when Cyn could have used the fan club most of all.
- [107:42]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Yeah, well. And you'd have to be so very.
- [107:45]
Sarah Schmidt
Upset when they ended the fan club.
- [107:47]
Alison Bumstead
Yeah. Like audition her next husband, have a contest.
- [107:51]
Sarah Schmidt
Well, Kathy Burns thought she was doing the right thing, like by continuing her fan club would upset Cynthia. But really it wasn't. But she had the right, the right idea. Like she had. Her heart was in the right place.
- [108:06]
Christine Feldman Barrett
But yeah, I think so.
- [108:08]
Alison Bumstead
Did Martha have a fan club?
- [108:09]
Sarah Schmidt
Surprisingly, no.
- [108:10]
Alison Bumstead
But it doesn't seem like a no.
- [108:11]
Sarah Schmidt
Brainer quite a bit. I know they did talk about Martha.
- [108:15]
Christine Feldman Barrett
Quite a bit, but Victor Spinetti did.
- [108:17]
Sarah Schmidt
Victor Spinetti, Yeah, my buddy, Patty Gallo Simon. She wrote the book. Yeah, she was co president of the Victor Spinetti Fan club. Her book's amazing. The Diary of a Beatlemaniac. I highly recommend it. And she's such a sweetheart. Yeah, she's such a great person.
- [108:34]
Interviewer/Listener
Looking forward to this American trip. Have you had any reaction over there? You got any fan clubs going? Well, there's one supposed to be started and they're getting quite good response. You know, 12,000 letters a day. But the beetle movement's going over there. You can even be a beetle booster, folks. I must tell you, by the way, that Detroit University have got to stamp out the beetle movement. I know Detroit, they think your haircuts are un American. Well, it was very observant of them because we aren't American actually. True though. True, true. Do you feel that, number one, there is a difference between the treatment that you have received by Movie magazine and all other magazines and teenage magazines specifically? Well, the teen ones are. The movie ones are written by people that never leave the office and they just make it all up, you know, and it's a lot of rubbish, but there's nothing we can do about it because the library laws are so peculiar over here. Magazines were talking about it, the same kind of thing, you know. But the thing is the teen magazines like sixteen magazines. Well, even though the stuff they write is still rubbish, it might, it's not as bad as the movie mags, but it's still rubbish. But there's some, there's some great magazines, you know, and some crummy ones, like anywhere. But there's just a few more crummy ones over here, I think. I mean, you know, you've got to admit it. If someone puts in, you know, is Richard Burton dying? I've just leaving the group. He's leaving the group, definitely. And I'm definitely married. You know, you can't. You can't sue them here. What can you do? Bring them up and say, I'm not leaving the group. Where did you get this from? Because then they get big publicity out of it, so you just got to leave it. But we just keep telling everybody that they're lousy and hoping the kids will gradually cotton on, you know, just buy them for the photographs and don't believe all the rubbish. The thing is, if you read them like fiction instead of fact, it's much better, you know, but you get all these letters and you're really leaving. Or is Paul married and have you got 12 wives and all that stuff? Is it I love them.
- [110:32]
Robert Rodriguez
Something about the Beatles created and hosted by Robert Rodriguez, executive producer Rick Way, Title song performed by the Corgis.
- [110:43]
Alison Bumstead
Something about the Beatles is an evergreen podcast.
- [111:09]
Beatles Fan/Interviewer
If I would vote I felt the rainbow or penitent of our present dancers I am J O O o o O We want free go go. You had more disciples than the man who was to clean John. I love you God. You want to this time Holy Spirit J.