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- [00:01]
Shopify Narrator
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- [01:50]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, okay, don't say it I'll pick it up from you and give it to us. The mirrors 1, 2, 3, 4.
- [02:07]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
If you want it, here it is come and get it make your mind up fast if you want it anytime I can give it but you better hurry cause it may not last Did I hear you say that there must be a catch? Will you walk away from a fool and his money? If you want it, here it is come and get it but you better hurry cause it's going fast Let that do now. Something about to be done.
- [03:00]
Robert Rodriguez (Host)
Hello and welcome to episode 313 of Something about the Beatles Podcast. And this is one that I've been looking forward to for a long time. My conversation with Ron Griffiths, who some of you know quite well and others are like, who is he? Well, he is the last surviving member of the Ivies. And if you don't know what the Ivys were, it was the precursor to Badfinger. And in fact, if anybody out there is a Badfinger fan that has magic Christian music, which was their first Apple release As Badfinger the one touting come and get it, the Paul McCarty written song for the Magi Christian film starring Ringo, that is in fact an Ivy's recording featuring Ron Griffiths. Ron's career with Pete Ham, Tom Evans and Mike Gibbons came to an end just as they were transitioning to the Bad Finger brand. So we're talking the end of 1969. So in fact there are recordings issued under the name Bad Figure Starting Would Come and Get it that were Ivy's in all but name because they featured that four man lineup which included Ron on bass. And after he left the band his slot was taken over by guitarist Joey Mullen, which necessitated Tom Evans switching to bass. But up until that time he had been rhythm guitar. In any event, to anybody who's not familiar with Badfinger or their history now, we did a show earlier this year with Bob Jackson, who was in the last iteration of Badfinger with Pete Ham in the late months of 1974, doing some live dates and then recording the Head first album which came out in late 2024 as remixed and remastered by Bob after he had located the missing master multi track tapes. So you have Badfinger basically as a band being bookended by the Ivys at one end and the Bob Jackson version of Badfinger at the end. So we've covered the end first, as it were, but now we're going back to the beginning. So if anybody listening to this is not really what they would consider to be a hardcore Badfinger fan, what I would point out to you is, well, if you're listening to this podcast, then you're a Beatle fan and presumably at least a little Beatles adjacent. Curious. And so they were the first band signing to the Apple label. Ron was a witness to a lot going on 6869 at Apple with the individual Beatles, mostly Paul as the producer of Come and Get It. He had been around John, been around Ringo. I don't think there's any real George interactions that would come with Badfinger later on to this point. It was pretty early on at Apple, so just pre Klein and then after Klein. And in fact Klein was the reason that the maybe Tomorrow album by the Ivies did not get issued in the principal markets of Britain and the States. But that's a conversation for another day. There's a history around the Ivies that includes hanging with Hendrix that Ron talks about in this conversation. Being produced by Ray Davies of the kinks in early 1967 and just being part of the British rock scene of the mid-60s, playing the marquee Club made famous by the who. And Mal Evans was basically their gateway, as a lot of people know, to getting a contract at Apple, because he was friends with Bill Collins, the guy who stopped short of calling himself a manager, but sort of was their handler and road manager and mentor, the guy that famously said he was not a businessman and went on to prove it, with the mismanagement of Badfinger's affairs leading directly to a suicide in 1975 and tangentially another one in 1983. But Ron was a witness. He goes back to Swansea and he was the one who brought Mike Gibbons into the fold, which he talks about here. He had been recruited, scouted by Pete Ham and a guy named David Dye Jenkins, who's still around but didn't really make it to the recording years. He bowed out as he was not a songwriter when they all needed to be songwriters, which Ron developed into. Now if you do own magic Christian music, not recognizing that it's really kind of an Ivey's album, then the song Dear Angie might be something you're familiar with. That's his shining hour, as he calls it, as a composer written about his then girlfriend, later wife, who also figures in the story. I was really looking forward for a long time to having this conversation with him and turns out he's just a fantastic guest, full of stories and full of perspective. I want to thank Rich and Mark from without yout Music for setting this up. And as I had mentioned in the newsletter and for anybody who's not a subscriber, it's a weekly thing, comes out on Mondays. Write to satb2010 satb2010 mail to get on. It's free, it doesn't spam and you get a lot of cool history and current events and talk about the show. Anyway, I will be having a adjacent conversation, sort of a bonus talk with Mark Straufman overseeing the many, many reissues of things going out. I'd mentioned the Head first last Badfinger album, at least with Pete Ham, but there's also all this Ivy stuff that's been coming out. They made a lot of demos and that was what ultimately got them signed to Apple. And so this stuff is all being collated and being parceled out. There's a Pete Ham acoustic release that just came out of acoustic demos. There is a couple live gigs that were issued as The Ivy's Anthology, Volume 1 and Volume 2. One from 1966 pre Tom Evans, one from 1968, just as things are happening with them at Apple.
- [09:03]
Interviewer
So you get a real sense of.
- [09:04]
Robert Rodriguez (Host)
Who this band was. There's BBC stuff that's floating around out there too, that if you know where to look, you can find it. A lot of stuff is on YouTube and not only is there an Ivy's YouTube channel, but there's also YouTube channels for the individual members of the of Badfinger. I would encourage anybody to check that stuff out, if you're at all interested. If you are a Badfinger fan, then this is your lucky day because this was a great conversation and he's a great guest and I had a lot of fun putting the show together. So you're going to hear a lot of rare audio and in fact, a lot of the stuff that's alluded to here. I've put together a playlist which you'll find on the SomethingAboutTheBeatles.com website, as well as a link to it in the social media posts about the show. Episode 313. So here it is. I hope that anybody who doesn't really know the Badfinger Ivy story will check it out because he's just full of great stories. And as the show progresses, they get better and better. And if you are a Badfinger fan already, well, this is your holiday.
- [10:09]
Ron Griffiths
My name's Ron and I come from Swansea in south Wales. I'm 21 years of age and I've been living in London for the last two and a half to three years. And what do you play in the group? I play bass guitar. Hello, I'm Mike, I'm the drummer in the group. I'm 19 years old and I live in Swansea, South Wales. Where do you live now? In London at the moment. I see, yes. And how long have you been playing the drums? I've been playing the drums since I was 13 and I'm still no good. I'm Peter Hamm and I come from Wales. I come from Swansea and I'm 21 years old. I play guitar. Do you sing at all? Well, you could call it that, yes. I'm Tom and I come from Liverpool. Being from Liverpool, I'm the only Englishman in the group. As you can see, we're among Sassenachs here. I'm also 21 and I play guitar and sing and together these chaps are called.
- [11:00]
Interviewer
I've been so immersed in Ivy's World lately and catching up and hearing a lot of stuff I hadn't heard before. I knew the album and I knew a few tracks and singles and B sides and things like that, but hearing the live stuff is pretty amazing. You've got Two sort of versions of the band, 66 and 68. And what a big difference between them.
- [11:18]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, well, that's pretty true. Yeah. People got the wrong impression when they first saw the album and heard the stuff we did when we signed to Apple because it's so light and flowery. And yet when we were doing live gigs, it was always pretty rocky, if you like. It was much more heavy than what, the impression we gave at the start anyway. Yeah.
- [11:36]
Interviewer
How did you feel about that at the time? Did you feel like the album didn't really represent you and that it was almost sort of misleading?
- [11:43]
Ron Griffiths
Not truly. It was just a showcase for Pete's songwriting, really, you know, and it was all very, very early stuff. And it was almost like a box of licorice, all sorts. That first album, the Ivy's album, it was, you know, but that's.
- [11:56]
Interviewer
That's the way a sampler. Okay. You've described your gravitating toward bass as coming from your father having a substantial and diverse record collection. And that bass was something you were inspired to pick up by the sound from the speaker cabinet in your house.
- [12:12]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, he had a small radiogram, we called them back then. It had a decent sized speaker in it and the bass used to leap out. I've always had a natural flair for harmonizing, and if you like, I'm a natural drummer in my head. Mike Gibbons often said to me, in your head on, you're a better drummer than I am. If I was ever tapping stinks out. He was saying, I wish to God I could do that.
- [12:36]
Interviewer
It's interesting you could think of those terms. And were you ever tempted to pick up the stick and branch out in.
- [12:41]
Ron Griffiths
The kit in our rehearsal mini studio that we had? But I never, ever did it, seriously. Unlike my late brother, who was pretty versatile. He was much more versatile than me. He's half decent guitar player and he played a bit of drums. But I thought I was a better bass player than he was.
- [12:58]
Interviewer
Huh.
- [12:59]
Ron Griffiths
Going back to your first part of your question, yes. My father had a very, very diverse selection of records. And they were all Baker, like 78s back then. Big bands, choral stuff. So I had a pretty, pretty broad taste in music at a very early, very early age.
- [13:17]
Interviewer
So was it pre rock and roll that you were gravitating toward bass and rhythm, or was that what changed for you?
- [13:24]
Ron Griffiths
It was about the rock and roll time. The first instrument we ever had at home was a battered old six string guitar my mum picked up at a jumbo sale somewhere. And the neck wasn't in line with the body. The first two strings were missing the fingerboard. And it was the only Ea and a D in the G strings that you could hit on the fingerboard. I was trying to pick out notes as I was in on because it was semi acoustic. I'd hear what I was doing. That's what stuck me on bass. Early rock and roll records, I guess you're thinking in terms you're Elvis, naturally, all the early Elvis stuff. And I was a huge fan of Eddie Cochrane as well. So that's where it came from, rock and roll wise.
- [14:04]
Interviewer
So how close were you to Swansea growing up?
- [14:07]
Ron Griffiths
Three and a half, four miles out of the city center.
- [14:10]
Interviewer
Okay, so I was cosmopolitan enough that you were getting decent radio and culture.
- [14:16]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, none of it was local radio. The only stuff we used to get on the radio back in those days was off a station called Radio Luxembourg, which used to play all the hits of the day along with adverts. And there for Lily Turner in Hampshire, you heard Bill Haley's recording of Mambo Rock. Coming up to 60 minutes after 10 o' clock on tonight's Rockin to Dreamland program. And if there's anything in particular you'd like to hear in the Schoma friendly do Drop me a Line. The address is Dave Gel Rockin to Dreamland Radio Luxembourg, Hartford Street, London W1. Let me know what you'd like to hear and I'll do my very best to play it for you. But it was a weak signal. It used to come in and go out, fade in and fade out. Fade in and fade out. It was really frustrating. There was no local radio back then. Everything we heard was either on national radio. Back then there was only one radio channel anyway. It was on what's called the light program. There was even no such thing as FN back then. So it was medium waves, long wave. That's where we got our music from. Apart from going to a record shop and picking up whatever we fancied in a record shop.
- [15:23]
Interviewer
Was skiffle much of a scene where you grew up?
- [15:26]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, Skiffle was about people like Lonnie Donegan, Tommy Steele. I don't suppose you've ever heard of these people, Lonnie?
- [15:33]
Interviewer
Oh yeah, I've written about him, if you like.
- [15:35]
Ron Griffiths
Skiffle was the bludging early start of rock and roll in this country. Before they were so called rock and roll bands or beat groups, it was trad jazz and then skiffle, and then it gravitated towards rock and roll.
- [15:49]
Interviewer
So who were some of your early Favorites as far as that stuff coming in and being influenced as you're learning your instrument.
- [15:56]
Ron Griffiths
If you like. The bass player that influenced me at the very start. Have you ever heard of Cliff Richard and the Shadows?
- [16:02]
Interviewer
Oh, yes.
- [16:03]
Ron Griffiths
Well, their bass player, when they first started, their bass player and drummer were Tony Meehan on drums, Jet Harris on bass. He was the first person I ever saw that, if you like, was an influence on me picking up bass guitar or wanted to be a bass player.
- [16:45]
Interviewer
And the Shadows overall were a pretty big influence. In as much as your early bands were instrumental bands, weren't they?
- [16:51]
Ron Griffiths
Their early stuff was all instrumentals anyway. Apart from backing Cliff Richard on his records. They had a huge hit with a piece called Apache. Most of their success was brought about by releasing instrumental singles. They were very, very popular back in 1959, 60 and through the 60s until the Beatles showed up. And then, of course, it waned. But they were a damn good vocal group as well.
- [17:14]
Interviewer
Right. So tell me about your response to the Beatles. Were you already in a band when they first hit, or did that come after?
- [17:22]
Ron Griffiths
I was in an instrumental band before the Beatles ever hypocene. I first heard the Beatles on the radio. The first thing I heard was Love Me Do. I was totally impressed with that because there was nothing like that about at the time. The first Beatles record I ever bought, I've still got the 45. It was before they were actually famous. It was with a man called Tony Sheridan. And they put a single out called My Bonnie.
- [17:45]
Interviewer
So you had a copy of that?
- [17:47]
Ron Griffiths
I got a copy of that, yeah. I think it says on the label, Tony Sheridan and the Beatles. I think.
- [17:53]
Interviewer
So how did you hear that record? Was that played on the radio?
- [17:55]
Ron Griffiths
That was, yeah.
- [17:56]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [17:57]
Ron Griffiths
I first heard both those records on the radio. And I rushed out and bought Love Me, Too. Of course, then it was on the television, as you well know. It wasn't a big hit back then. It got into the top 20, maybe. Maybe the lower reaches of the British top 10. I can't remember 17 when they released their follow up, Please Please Me. I was the first person in Swansea to actually buy it. I was in school. I'd gone into a shop called David Evans, which was the first shop in Swansea. Where most of the first batch of any single records that came out went to David Evans, as they were called. And I'd gone in there just before they opened. I was pretty pally with the girl that used to sell the records in there. And I was the first person that. Well, if you can call it any form of kudos at all. I was the first person to buy Please Please, me and Swansea. But that's only me telling you there's no proof.
- [18:44]
Interviewer
Right, right. Wow, that's great. Did you guys, in whatever band you had going at the time, did you add Beatle covers to your sets back.
- [18:52]
Ron Griffiths
When the Ivys was going? Yeah, we used to do people's covers. We used to do quite a few. Bringing them to mind's a bit tricky. I wish I knew I could have done your list. I think everybody did. I saw A Stand in there. But we used to do quite a few of the singles.
- [19:06]
Interviewer
Well, I know that by after you guys were signed to Apple and you're doing BBC sessions, it's interesting that you're doing things like Drive My Car.
- [19:13]
Ron Griffiths
Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, we were doing those on the stage routines anyway. We used to do Revolution prior to all that. We did used to do I Feel Fine and From Me to you, this Boy. We used to do the Peace sides as well and quite a few of the tunes. We were pretty hooked on the Beatles at one time, but we did used to do covers of the Kinks and the Hollies and various others before we came up to London.
- [19:34]
Interviewer
Fair to say you guys were big fans of the who?
- [19:37]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, we did a few of those as well. We used to do stuff off their first album, I Don't Mind, we used to do. Which is a cover of a James Brown song, My Generation. We did that. We did quite a fair few of their songs. Yeah.
- [19:50]
Interviewer
John Antwistle was a bassist. Was there any influence there?
- [19:53]
Ron Griffiths
He was excellent. He's a prime example of a wonderful bass guitar player. He had a wonderful action, a wonderful technique and to this day, you know, God bless his soul, I think he was a wonderful player. We used to do My Generation, but I can never get that solo exactly like he did it. Maybe now I could, but I couldn't then.
- [20:14]
Interviewer
Did you ever see the Beatles live?
- [20:16]
Ron Griffiths
No, never. Strange as it may seem, apart from seeing them in the Apple party things and boring things, never ever saw them live.
- [20:25]
Interviewer
So you guys are gigging pretty heavily and to anybody who is interested, There is a 1966 Ivy's gig recorded pre Tommy Evans. But it's you, Pete, Mike and Di Jenkins that's out there. And one of the first things you might be impressed with is that there's a lot of R and B covers that you guys are doing. So that was clearly a direction you guys had at the time.
- [20:50]
Ron Griffiths
Oh, yeah, that was the way to go at the time. Because although it's great if you can play your own material, when you used to do gigs back then, people just wanted to hear stuff that they knew and were familiar with and they wanted to dance to. So you really couldn't stamp your own material out there because they just weren't interested.
- [21:08]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
When you leave me you know I'll follow Yes, I will Whatever you tell me oh, that's what I do all right. I'm in lovely badness Honey, you know I'm up.
- [21:44]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah. We were very, very well much guided in that direction. R B. We used to do quite a lot of covers by the Spencer Davis Band. Oh yes, my school actually. And we did quite a few of their tunes, but we loved all that stuff.
- [21:59]
Interviewer
He was Welsh as well, was he not?
- [22:01]
Ron Griffiths
Spencer Davis? Yes, Swansea. He was five years older than I was. He went to never school in Swansea and when I first started there, the second year I was at Denver, we used to have a thing called a hobbies exhibition annually and back then my hobby was collecting stamps and the actual exhibition was held in. We had a two floor gymnasium there and on each floor there were stands with people's hobbies dotted about on the lower floor. My parents came this particular day and at one end of the gymnasium on a little stage was Spencer Davis playing old folk songs by Big Bill Brunsey and people like that. That was Spencer's hobby, playing folk music. Wow.
- [22:42]
Interviewer
That's very different from the sound you knew him for.
- [22:44]
Ron Griffiths
Exactly.
- [22:46]
Interviewer
So there's a lot of early history that I'm going to recommend to anybody interested in this conversation to check out the show. In particular did Vinyl Verdict with Jacob Marcus because you get into the real deep level of people coming and going and this. We want to get sort of an overview of your career but right now it's a good juncture to talk about how you came into. It was before it was called the Ivies. The band with Pete and D Jenkins that you were actually recruited for.
- [23:14]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, that's right. At that time I was playing an instrumental band which gradually morphed into a vocal band called the Jaguars. I'm still P with the old league guitarist actually, Frankie Broomfield. I enjoyed all that stuff, but word must have got about. They must have been looking for a bass player to replace. I think their bass player's name was John Horrell. I can't remember. They wanted somebody that was able to sing and they came to a gig we were doing in a hotel in Swansea called the Dolphin Hotel. It was a wedding reception we were doing and when we'd finished, I noticed that these three lads were standing to the front of the stage, to the side, watching us. And when we finished, they came up to me and said, enjoy that, Ron. My name's D. Jenkins. This is my brother Alwin and Peter Ham. We're in a band that play locally. We'd like to know if you'd like to come and have a listen to us and see what you think. And with a view to joining us, of course. I was taken aback. I had no intention of going anywhere else, so I agreed and I went up to, I think it was a school up on Tann Hill in Swansea where they were doing a rehearsal. And the first thing Pete Hahn ever played to me just got me through the motions before we actually sat down and did anything. He was playing the chords and singing along to hey Baby by Bruce Chanel. Of course, he was playing chords that Frankie never, ever played. It was very, very R and B orientated. He was playing seventh chords and things like this. I quite like this. And that persuaded me that maybe I ought to jump ship and go and join up with Pete and the boys. That's how I transferred from one to the other. The Jaguars weren't very happy at the time, I can tell you, but as it turns out, that's how it all started.
- [24:58]
Interviewer
What were they called at the time?
- [24:59]
Ron Griffiths
They had two names. The only one I can remember was Black Velvets. Yeah, I think there was another one, but it escapes me at the minute. Right, that's what we went under. Neymar's. Then we got.
- [25:10]
Interviewer
Was you that. That had the inspiration for the name Ivies.
- [25:13]
Ron Griffiths
Well, that will come later. Okay, what happened? We had a drummer named Terry Gleason. At that time, the first gig we ever did was a talent contest in a rugby club in Swansea, where we came third, I think. And four of us used to sing. Peter, David, myself and Terry all sang. And we did a vocal version of if I Loved you from Carousel, which we thought was pretty wonderful, but it only got us third. We were going quite well for a long while, but we were turning gigs down because Terry was the only one of us that worked shifts. So he said, to be fair to you lads, you're doing quite well getting gigs. I'm having to turn them down because of my shifts. I'm going to have to hand my notice in. Can you find another drummer? So in the interim, we looked around. My father knew a fellow named George Gibbons. We used to drink with him down at a pub in Swansea called the Mexico Fountain. Of all names, George Gibbons used to do a bit of piano in the pub. And they were chatting one night and my dad mentioned the fact that Ron's with this band and they're looking for another drummer. And George said to my father, look, my son Mike's playing with a band called the Club Four, but he wants to join up with another band. He's getting a bit cheesed off with playing instrumental records. So I went along with my father to Mike Lives, Lived and introduced myself, asked him if he wanted to come and have a rehearsal with us. He came down and the rest is history. Because we thought he was wonderful, we took him on straight away and that's when we became the band that became the Ivies. As we were rehearsing him in, we used to come back from the rehearsal room we were using and we used to drive past the front of Swansea Railway station and there's a pull in there for the cabs. And it was called Ivy Place, which still exists to this day, actually. But there was a road sign there saying, with Ivy Place on it and me passing it. I shouted to the other boys, what about naming ourselves the Ivies? Spelled as that sign there is I, V, E Y S. And they all, for some unknown reason, jumped at it, I suppose because it was akin to the Hollies, right? I don't know, but that's the name that was. Rang a bell. Oh, let's call ourselves the Ivies. And that's how the name stuck until such times as we had to change it, right?
- [27:31]
Interviewer
So the earliest pictures I've seen of the Ivys really come with the Apple era. I've seen a few backstage shots and things like that. But were you guys in your presentation all wearing like the same outfits, the same kind of suits? Were you guys doing that at that day?
- [27:46]
Ron Griffiths
The only time we actually tried to get anything resembling a uniform where we all look the same was we had a fan club lady there. Again, the name's gone. I can't remember her name. They made these shirts for us, all done by hand. And these white flared trousers, I forget what color the tops were, but we wore those for a while until the novelty wore off when we were already signed to Apple and maybe tomorrow was already in the can. They put us on the Gene Pitney tour. And we had a bit of a chat about what we were going to wear on the show. Because it's one of these theater things where you've got the spotlights and the stage lighting and we had blouson jackets made for us. In a silver. It was metallic looking. And we thought that would be a great idea because the lights would bounce off them. Any colored lights would project these jackets out. We had them made and they were done. Really smart. But Apple wouldn't let us wear them on the tour because they were under the impression because we were wearing all this glitzy stuff. We'd upstage the main acts like Pitney and Marmalade and Joe Cocker. They thought we were going to upstage them. So they made us wear those suits that you've seen the picture of, the black suits with the high collars. And the annoying thing is we spent money on those jackets and we never ever wore them after that.
- [29:08]
Interviewer
Do you still have yours?
- [29:10]
Ron Griffiths
No, none of that's all gone. Oh, none of it's there. Okay. They were really, really smart.
- [29:16]
Interviewer
Is there any photos that exist of them?
- [29:18]
Ron Griffiths
No, they don't. That's the saddest thing of all.
- [29:21]
Interviewer
Oh, okay. Die Jenkins. What led to him leaving the band?
- [29:25]
Ron Griffiths
Mainly because we spent a lot of time in our spare time. Peter was prolifically coming up with different song ideas, man, we all were at the time, coming up with different song ideas. And we would spend ages and ages in the little recording studio that we had. The one of us that wasn't as enthusiastic was Di. So it was getting noticeable that he wasn't interested whatsoever. And Bill Collins, the then manager, was always trying to nag us into. The money in pop music is composing your own tunes and selling them. He was adamant that that's the way you're going to make any money if you ever get a recording deal. And I wasn't particularly interested, even though he was the pinup of the group. Whenever we did gigs. He was the one that the girls used to clock around. He was the glamour boy, if you like. So we'd been goaded almost into thinking, well, Pratt DY is not the one we ought to have in the band because he's not interested in the composing and the recording demos, even though he was on the first few. So we politely suggested that perhaps he ought to leave the band. And it was all done in good faith and there was no animosity. So he agreed that he'd quit. But he stayed with us until we'd found another player. Which is when we happened to have some gigs up north near Liverpool. And during the course of the weekend or the three or four days we were up there, we had one spare night where we went around the local Liverpool. We found out where the gigs were taking place. We went to four venues. On the third visit we went to a place called Litherland Town hall where a band called Ven Calderstones were playing. And the first thing that struck us as we walked in was, was the chap in the middle who had a pretty distinctive voice and a lot of presence, which was Tommy. In their interval, we actually walked up and had a chat with him and told him who we were, what our plans were and would you like to come and spend a long weekend with us down in London and see what you think, Come to a keg? Because he said at that moment, he said he wouldn't have minded. He had thoughts of turning professional, doing it for a living. So he arranged to come down with us and spend the whole weekend with us and go to a gig in the Midland summer. And he got on well with us. We took him around London and had a bit of a social crack with him. He enjoyed the gig that we did and he decided this is for me. So he handed his notice in with the Goldstones and presumably the job he had at the time and that's how he joined us.
- [31:50]
Interviewer
So he turned pro upon joining you guys?
- [31:53]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, yeah, okay.
- [31:55]
Interviewer
Interesting. Now, I know we got ahead of ourselves there. I meant to ask you about Bill Collins. How did he come into your orbit?
- [32:01]
Ron Griffiths
Oh, that's even way, way before we were still playing locally in and around Swansea and District Then we had a gig this particular night in a place called Amonford. It was the dance hall called the Regal. We were the support band for the Mojos. Who. He was the tour manager, road manager, General Dog's Body, if you like. Anyway, that dance hall had two stages. We're set up on one end and the Mojas are up the other end. There's no sign of them, their gear was on the stage so we had to start the evening off which must have been around 7:30, 8 o'. Clock. We'd been paying for about 20, 25 minutes and then to our left we saw four or five people walking in with an elderly looking gentleman we thought as he was and there he was, he was puffing his pipe. He stopped and came around and stood in front of us and he watched us and then he went off and he was sitting on the stage at the other end when the gig had finished we thought the Mojos are pretty good that night as well. They are. Ainsley Dunbar on drums who eventually joined Frank Zapper. I think they were a damn good band actually. Anyway, cut a long story short, he had a chat with us at the end and said, I liked what you were doing there. Really nice song. He was particularly enamored, believe it or not, with my voice. That's what made him stop and look. Apparently.
- [33:40]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Every day, 20 miles, 80 miles.
- [33:57]
Ron Griffiths
He said, that young man in the middle, he said he was telling Alwyn Jenkins this. That is my own brother. That young man in the middle's got a very soulful voice. He stayed in touch with us and they exchanged letters, Alwyn and Bill, and one letter that came out of the blue, he was telling us about a chap who'd not long had a hit record named David Garrick. He had a top 10 hit in the UK with a rolling Stones cover called Lady Jane. And he was looking for a backing band to go on tour with around Britain and Ireland. So Bill got into touch with us and said, there's an audition session taking place over a weekend at such and such a date. Would you like to come up and spend the weekend with me and we can go and do the audition and see how you get on? And we just thought it was going to be a blooming good laugh, you know. So off we went maybe two or three weeks later. We went up on the Friday, stayed at Bell's, and the rehearsal was on a Sunday, I believe. We went down to this little club in one of the basements of a Soho clubs, and there must have been about 20 bands who'd gone there to audition for David Garrick. The first three or four had gone on and we're listening and we think, well, they were okay. Well, they weren't bad, but none of them sounded any better than what we thought we were. So when we did our little session, we did two tunes. One was by the Impressions we did It's All Right by the Impressions, and I forget the other one we did, but we were harmonizing the songs and when we'd finished, David Garrick walked up to Bill and whispered in his ear, you boys have got the job, but I've got to listen to all the others, so stick around. So we did. We stuck around and listened to all the others. Most of them were pretty good. And that's how we got the gig, courtesy of Bill Collins dragging us up to London for the audition. And then when we knew we had that chance to turn professional, that's when he dropped the hint that he wanted to coach us and be our tour manager. That's how we got involved with Bill. Then we had the wonderful experience of telling our parents that we want to quit our jobs. I was an apprentice with Wales Gas Peter was a radio and TV technician with his brother in a shop called Jack George. Mike Gibbons used to work for himself as a rough painter, and he used to do artwork and die. Jenkins was an apprentice motor mechanic. We had to quit our jobs to turn professional. Fortunately, my father, he had to sign an indenture to break my apprenticeship with British Gas. To this day, I bless my father for doing that because I sometimes wonder if my son at that age had said to me, I want to turn professional with a rock and roll band. Will you sign me out of my regular job? It must have been a very difficult decision for my father. But he said, I won't stand in your way, Ron, because, okay, you're quitting an apprenticeship. But I think whatever happens, if it doesn't work out, you land on your feet and come back bouncing with something else. So God bless me, dad. He was the one that let me escape from Wales Gas.
- [36:57]
Interviewer
Uhhuh. Was it similar with Pete's family? Did they recognize that he was somebody with some musical talent?
- [37:03]
Ron Griffiths
Pete was working at Jack George. I recall John worked there as well, his brother. It wasn't quite the same setup there. He wasn't indentured to anything. I was. I was legally bound to British Gas. I had to sign myself out. Wales Gas, I should say. And Peter wasn't in a situation like that. He was in a position where he could just walk away.
- [37:24]
Interviewer
But you guys were about, what, 16 years old? 16, 17.
- [37:28]
Ron Griffiths
I was 16 at the time. Yeah. Okay. 16, 17. Let's get this right. It would have been early 66. I was 19. 18 or 19 when I broke that news to my father. Okay. Yeah, it was, you know, around about 66. Early 66.
- [37:46]
Interviewer
And you just had a birthday, so. Happy belated birthday.
- [37:50]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, it's creeping near the big eight. Oh, no, I'm afraid.
- [37:56]
Interviewer
Okay, so Bill Collins gets involved. Is that really the turning point where he wants you guys to get serious about songwriting? Because he recognizes that that is a lucrative thing for you guys to be involved in.
- [38:09]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, he really strongly emphasized that. As a matter of fact, the actual way he put it to our parents, because there was a meeting between all of us and all of our parents before we actually did venture off to London. It was on the lines of, I can't promise anything but blood, sweat and tears Nothing's guaranteed. But I think your lads have got the chance of making a success of turning professional. But I do emphasize that it's a good thing to do, is to try and create your own music. He was pretty strong on that one.
- [38:41]
Interviewer
Was he of your parents generation?
- [38:43]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, he would have been, I guess. Yeah. There wasn't much in it. I think they must have been very, very similar age group. Yeah.
- [38:51]
Interviewer
So that would have carried some weight, that argument coming from an adult.
- [38:55]
Ron Griffiths
Maybe they. Maybe they would have taken that on board, I dare say. Yeah.
- [39:01]
Interviewer
So is this where the Reebok's recorder comes into the picture?
- [39:04]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, that was always in the. We called it the sweat box. It was always there. It was Bill's machine between two of us, anyway, we got around to knowing how to use it and Pete was pretty innovative with it because he got the idea that you could bounce, even though it was only a two track thing, you could bounce one track onto another and if you like layer things on up to a point before it started to degrade. So we were able to double track things and just record it back in track, then put the vocals on top and things like that. It was very, very rudimentary and it didn't sound great, but that's the way we used it.
- [39:57]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
On the ground. And listen to my song. I'll do this someday that you'll be mine I just can't wait till then I'll be very far away.
- [40:14]
Ron Griffiths
You must.
- [40:15]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
See When I believe so many, many things I believe now.
- [40:25]
Ron Griffiths
This is.
- [40:26]
Interviewer
He's got you down in. In London in Golders Green on Park Avenue at this point.
- [40:31]
Ron Griffiths
That's right. Uh huh. Bill had built that studio himself. It was a soundproof room within a dining room of the house. I think he built it primarily for the Mojos to rehearse in Andy Dunbar's drums. And it did have a terrific deadening effect because we could be outside in the kitchen or in the lounge area and if Micah was in there bashing away in his drums, you could hardly hear it. So it was an ideal thing. It was just that it wasn't ventilated. It was very stuffy in there. It was a useful office.
- [41:02]
Interviewer
So the Reeboks we're talking about ended up being in display somewhere, didn't it?
- [41:08]
Ron Griffiths
It's in the rocknroll hall of Fame in Cleveland.
- [41:10]
Interviewer
Right.
- [41:11]
Ron Griffiths
There's a museum attached to it, I believe it was with Bill and his wife Anne for quite some time. After it all finished, she rang me up one day and said, there's a lot of stuff here that I don't want any longer on. She said, is there anything that you'd like? She said, this is after Bill had died, by the way. She said, I've got the old tape recorder that you used to use Would you like it? So I said, well, yeah, I'll take it, okay, off your hands. So I'd gone down, had a cup of tea and a social with her for a bit. She was a lovely lady with Anne Collins. I brought it back home and it was stuck in a cupboard here for ages. I forget how it came about. Somebody suggested it ought to be on display, not stuck in a cupboard in your house. So eventually I got in touch with the Rock Hall. I don't know what they're called, it's a museum. Anyway, it's associated with the Rock and Roll hall of Fame and they said that they would pay for the shipping to the States. All you got to do is just put a label on it. It was years after I'd sent it that eventually I kept sending emails off. When's it going to be on display? Because I thought it was going to go straight there. Straight on display. Quite a few people used to, on my behalf. Do you know the name Dan Matavina?
- [42:26]
Interviewer
Oh, of course, yes.
- [42:28]
Ron Griffiths
Dan got in touch with them. I got in touch with them, eventually got around to actually putting it in a glass case. I wanted them to put a couple of decent sized spools on it to make it look authentic. But it's just as you see it, it's just there as it is, without any tape spools on it. To my knowledge, it's still there on display. Wow. Whether I get it back, I have no idea.
- [42:51]
Interviewer
Well, hopefully your name's attached to it somewhere.
- [42:53]
Ron Griffiths
It's doing the right thing. It's on display for people to see and let's face it, it gave birth to something quite phenomenal.
- [42:59]
Interviewer
Exactly right. That's a good way to put it, for sure. So Tommy's in the band now. It's the four of you living in London. The next thing I want to ask you about is how did Ray Davies get involved?
- [43:11]
Ron Griffiths
Because when we were sharing the house in 7 Park Avenue, initially the Mojos were there, but they gradually moved out. We needed an extra body to help to pay the rent. And because we were signed up with an agency called the Arthur Howes Agency, who actually were the agency that the Kinks were attached to their road manager, tour manager, David Duffield, his name was. We asked him if he would come in with us and share the rent, which he did. He took another room that was spare and all the Kinks gear used to be parked in the front hallway as you came into the house. Drums, Dre and Dave's guitars and so on. He Used to listen to the demos that we'd made, you know, in the little sweat box. And he'd gone down to, you know, he was still working for the Kinks, and he was having a chat to Ray one day about, hey, there's this band that lived with me at Go Green. They've got a load of songs of their own that they've been recording, all original stuff. I think they're pretty good. I think you'd enjoy listening to some of these. So he took a tape down to Ray, and Ray listened to them and decided that he'd record us in a little demo studio down in London on the. On Kent Road. I forget the name of the studio.
- [44:24]
Interviewer
This is early 1967.
- [44:26]
Ron Griffiths
Pretty early on. Yeah.
- [44:27]
Interviewer
Yeah. So they've done the Face To Face album yet?
- [44:30]
Ron Griffiths
Kinks. Oh, maybe so. I'm not sure about that.
- [44:33]
Interviewer
Hello, who's that speaking, please?
- [44:35]
Ron Griffiths
But he heard these songs and he took us as the Ivys with Die Jenkins and all. He took us down to that. We did four tunes which I presume are on these Matavina releases. One was called Taxi.
- [44:48]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Only two miles from your door I wish the lights change to red Red if they're green and we must go ahead I know the things I said Moving in a taxi In a taxi Taxi.
- [45:22]
Ron Griffiths
One was called I believe in you, girl Crumbs. I forget the other two. Now, what surprised us was when we were doing these things, we never ever heard ourselves on playback, coming through studio monitors, which are great big things, and we couldn't believe how powerful it sounded coming back at us through these studio speakers. It was a real eye opener to us, you know, it comes us what we must sound like on stage, because all we'd ever heard up till then was the little tin pot thing on a little speaker on the Revox. That's how we got involved with Ray Davis, anyway.
- [45:54]
Interviewer
So was the intent to shop these around as demos and get a record deal?
- [45:59]
Ron Griffiths
Well, he didn't do that. We thought perhaps something would come of it, but nothing ever did. Huh.
- [46:05]
Interviewer
So did Bill get the possession of the tape then, that Ray made?
- [46:08]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, they were always in our possession. There's probably a bit more I'm trying to recount what happened after that. We stayed in touch with them. It was an early video. They put a single out called Dead End street and they invited us along to the video shoot.
- [46:23]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
There's a crack up in the ceiling and the kitchen sink is leaking out of work and got no money A Sunday joint of bread and pony what are we living for two room department on the second floor. No money coming in. The rent collector's not trying to get in. We are strict second class. We don't understand.
- [47:04]
Ron Griffiths
You may well have seen it where there's an undertaker involved. The one story attached to that, that's quite funny, we used to keep all of Kink's gear in the front part of the house, including for that shoot the coffin, or the casket, as you Americans call them. Anyway, one night we decided we were going to put somebody in it, walk down the road to the Wimpy Bar in Golders Green and, well, we put Mike in it. Mike Gibbon. This was later on, after Di had gone. He hadn't gone. What am I talking about? Di was still with us. We walked down the road with this coffin between us, went to the Wimpy Bar, walked into the door and put it down on the floor. All the customers in the shop were all going, couldn't believe what they were seeing. You know, we set this thing down on the floor and the lid opens and Mike gets out. You can imagine the uproar in there. Nobody had mobile phones back then, so there's no record of it except what I'm telling you now. That was strange, right? But yeah, after that we were doing gigs. We did one gig in a place called Oakham for a chap who used to own the Reddells Brewery, a beer brewing company. And the Kinks couldn't make this gig, so we did a gig at this. I'm trying to remember the name of the. He was the heir of the man that ran the brewery. His name was David Watts and he used to be a major in the Queen's Hussars. And that's where that song I Wish I Could Be Like David Watts comes from. A really, really charming, well spoken chap, used to speak like that sort of thing, you know, one of the old school. And when the gig had finished, we were invited back to his rather splendid home because we were hungry. I'm afraid cook is out tonight, but I could rustle up something for you. He said, would you like something like beans on toast? So he knocked us together at Beans on Toast feast and he was a lovely fella. That's the very first time I ever used a pepper mill in my life. And every, every time I have beans on toast at home for a snack now, I think back to that evening and I'm scraping the ground pepper onto my beans. But Major David Watts, that's where that song came from. I wish I could be like David Watts. That the Kinks wrote and was re recorded as a cover by the Jam.
- [49:21]
Interviewer
That's right. Yeah, that's right.
- [49:25]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Wish I could be like. Wish I could be like. Wish I could be like. Wish I could be like.
- [49:47]
Ron Griffiths
I'm jumping the gun again here.
- [49:50]
Interviewer
That's fine, it's fine. We're all over the place here. But somewhere in this, this timeline is where Bill connects with Mal Evans and then that paves the way to Apple.
- [49:59]
Ron Griffiths
That's right. I think they accidentally bumped into each other somewhere in the West End of London. And they knew each other from way back because Bill used to play piano somewhere or other and Mal knew Bill anyway, so the story goes, how are you doing, Bill? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he told them about the fact I'm Rhodian for this bunch of Welsh lads who've been compiling their own songs. They've got some nice stuff. We're doing a gig tonight in the Marquee, if you'd like to come down and have a listen. So. Yeah, okay, I'll do that. So we used to do the Marquee Club reasonably regularly as a support to the people like the Marmalade and so on and the Move. This particular night we had our own. I forget what night it was me. A Tuesday or a Wednesday where people that weren't well known had their own spot at the Marquee Club. And we had a fairly regular session down there and we actually had a bit of a following. Anyway, we'd gone down that night, done the gig, and Bill told us that Mal Evans was going to be coming down, have a listen, and we didn't. We never met him before. Anyway, we just went through our usual set. I had a bit of a laugh with the crowd because we built up a bit of a rapport with them. Gig finishes, Mal comes up with Bill and Hey, fellas. I really enjoyed that, he said. That put me in mind of the old Cavern days. He said you had a. A bit of a laugh with the crowd. He said that was great. But he came back to Park Avenue with us after the gig to listen to some of the stuff that we'd done. And he was mightily impressed, you know, I forget how many he listened to. This is late at night now. And he decided that he was going to take a spool of tape down to Apple to let them listen to it, see what they thought. Obviously, I don't know. I can't remember who he actually played the tape to. Might have been Derek Taylor. Might have been the. I don't know who it was. But they were instantly attracted to what they heard and agreed to sign us up. And that was courtesy of Mal going down, listening to us alive, listening to the tapes, taking them down, thinking that they were looking for acts that were doing original material. Apple's bludgeoning years, if you like. It was early days. They'd already signed Mary Hopkins, who was from our part of the world.
- [52:10]
Interviewer
Anyway, did you guys ever cross paths before Apple?
- [52:13]
Ron Griffiths
No, we only ever met her when she was actually down there one day and she'd heard about us and she came in to have a chat with us and couldn't believe that we were from further down the valley where she was from. She was quite tickled with that. You know, three of us were chatting away with this. Well, you can probably hear I've still got a Welsh accent. And she was blown away by the fact that she had stable mates from Swansea.
- [52:38]
Interviewer
Yes, I was wondering about that, because it seems such an interesting thing that in 1968, two artists coming out of Swansea end up in the same place.
- [52:47]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, that was a real coincidence, wasn't it? You know, I've lost the thread of where we are now or where we were.
- [52:52]
Interviewer
Okay, well, we're talking about Mel hearing you guys in the house.
- [52:56]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah.
- [52:56]
Interviewer
And bringing you to Apple.
- [52:58]
Ron Griffiths
In a nutshell, that's how it came about. You know, his knowledge of knowing Bill and so on. And fortunately, he liked what he saw and he liked what he heard, and so did Apple. Consequently, we got signed to them. We instantly thought, right, we've landed on our feet. Maybe they'll like one of these songs that we've done to put out as a single. We spent ages sending songs to them, but with little or no luck, we even had an offer of a song from the who. It's a piece called Maryanne With a Shaky Hand. Mike and I wanted to do it, but Pete and Tom said, no, we want to do one of our own.
- [53:34]
Interviewer
Right. Most people know that it's a track on the who Sell out album. Yeah. But that sort of split between, no, we're gonna do originals versus. This is a good song by Pete Townsend. Why not? It's interesting because in the Ivy's live sets to this point, you're very much a upfront vocal presence. You're doing a lot of the lead singing.
- [53:58]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Just Walk Away, Renee. You Won't See me Falling Back Home now as the rain comes down.
- [54:26]
Interviewer
But as the band sort of converts to originals, you're not as prolific as Pete and Tommy, and you're still singing Lead, but not as much. It's kind of comparable to when you listen to the Beatles club sets and BBC Recordings, where George is much more of a lead singer than he was once they got signed to Parlophone and It's all Lennon McCartney stuff.
- [54:45]
Ron Griffiths
Well, I suppose that was a natural evolution of the fact Tommy and Pete principally composed the tunes. They principally were the singers. As a result, they became the principal singers on the recordings.
- [54:58]
Interviewer
But Pete would set aside material for you, as a lot of people listening to this know, from the Bad Finger Magic Christian album. The song Midnight sun was originally your vocal.
- [55:09]
Ron Griffiths
I was meant to have been the singer on that, but you probably read the story. I came down with Chickenpox and I had to miss the session. Yes. Pete came back from that session having they recorded it. He came to my sick bed. I think he may have heard this before. He opened the door to my room and he said. Ronnie said, I murdered it. The trophies. I thought he did a grand job of it, but he actually wanted me to sing it. That's still a disappointment. What can you do when you're not well, you're not well. And we couldn't cancel the session. You know, the thing was booked. So off they went and did it. By then, Tom had composed maybe Tomorrow. We sent that off down as a demo, just with the acoustic guitar and the demo we'd made.
- [56:29]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Listen to a lonely sound See the gray and sadness all around See the people go their way Come out of me in love I've lost today maybe tomorrow I will love again I'll never know Until I've looked into her eyes Baby, tomorrow I will love again I'll never know Until I've seen her once or twice and so I'm living in a dream.
- [57:23]
Ron Griffiths
They were quite enamored with that. They said, right, you can record that as your first single. That's how that one came about.
- [57:29]
Interviewer
Now, where were you guys in 68, as you're signed? And Apple is showing interest in maybe Tomorrow. Were you guys at Trident Studios recording this stuff?
- [57:37]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, maybe Tomorrow was a Trident job. Yeah. Quite a few things were recorded down there.
- [57:42]
Interviewer
It was Mel running the session for maybe Tomorrow.
- [57:46]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, he would have been involved with that. Yeah. I don't think whether he ran it or not debatable.
- [57:51]
Interviewer
I know Denny Cordell was involved early on.
- [57:54]
Ron Griffiths
Danny Cordell, that's one of them. He was involved on a few of the recordings on that initial album.
- [58:00]
Interviewer
I think Tony Visconti kind of enters the scene.
- [58:04]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah. He was also part and parcel of the sessions at Trident, principally Dear Angie and various others. He was the instigator of the strings on Dear Angie.
- [58:15]
Interviewer
And that's a song that he was so enamored of. Years later, it ends up on a Tony Visconti compilation record.
- [58:21]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, I was amazed at that. I actually sent him a message to say, thank you very much. I'm honored that you could do that. And his reply was, well, why not?
- [58:31]
Interviewer
That's another one we'll come back to. Because it's an important song. So you're recording a Trident, and this is now summer of 68. At some point you're in the studio when Paul McCartney comes in wanting to play something for you.
- [58:44]
Ron Griffiths
That was a night session. Well, this is another Lives long in the memory story. I think we'd only gone down there to overdub stuff. We hadn't gone down to record anything from scratch. I think the song we'd done was called Mrs. Jones.
- [59:03]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
And what is more, Mrs. Jones. She's not the little tomboy that one she used to be. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Be like dancing in the fountain had to fall to square Though it's cold I won't be told with I really haven't got a care Just as long as she is standing there.
- [59:28]
Ron Griffiths
I hope.
- [59:29]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
You like me, Mr. Jones and Mr. Jones as well. Cause maybe we'll be relatives maybe in the future.
- [59:36]
Ron Griffiths
Anyway, Mike Gibbons and myself are down on the studio floor against the wall having a cup of coffee. And back in those days, I used to have the occasional cigarette. Anyway, the door opens and in walks Paul McCartney. Oh, hello, lads. How are you doing? I like that one you've just put together up there. It sounds pretty good. Oh, listen to this. He says. This is going to be our next single. So he walks over to the. I think it's a Beck Stein that was on the grand piano on the floor. He gets under the keys and Mike and I stand up and we are in the well of the grand piano in the curved part, leaning on it. And he launches into hey Jude. And he said, this is going to be our next single. And we're standing there looking at each other, looking at him. This can't be happening. And nobody else in the world had heard it. And we've got no cameras, no phones to do any of this with. So it's all up here. But he actually sang it as if he was recording it. He didn't scat through it. He gave it the full Paul McCartney treatment on the piano. You know, the way he goes. And we were gobsmacked you know, wow. What do you think?
- [60:38]
Interviewer
What a moment.
- [60:39]
Ron Griffiths
What do you think of that? Was he said at the end and we said, well, you know, we sort of joined in and mucking up. Well, we think it might just have something, Paul. You know, we walk back up the stairs back to the studio control room and I, I just, on the way up the stairs I said, where do you, where does all this stuff come from, Paul? I said, well, you know, where. It's just, it's all in me head, Ron. He said, terrific memories, but there you are. He played Mike and me the, this song that he and John just written and we didn't know how to take it. It was called hey Jude and he was singing away and playing and it, it was all, you know, it made you feel awesome and you just didn't know what to say. And he asked Michael what he thought of it. And what did you say, Mike, when he asked him autograph. So he gave him his autograph on his nose. He hasn't washed since.
- [61:32]
Interviewer
So as a new Apple signee, were you in proximity to other people? You described Mary Hopkins. What about Jackie Lomax or James Taylor?
- [61:41]
Ron Griffiths
Never actually got involved or got to do anything socially with him or. The funny thing is, before James Taylor had actually signed with Apple, we'd gone down there one day to do either rehearsal or something or other. Walked up the steps, gone in through the front door and I tripped over this. There was a long haired fella sitting on the floor with his back to the wall with his legs stretched out and I tripped over his legs and I said, I'm terribly sorry, I didn't see you there. He said, oh, that's okay, man, my name's James Taylor and we'd never heard of him. So I shook hands, I said, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to kick your legs. That's the only time I ever spoke to James Taylor.
- [62:22]
Interviewer
Did you have any interactions with Peter Asher being around Apple?
- [62:26]
Ron Griffiths
I never met him personally. The only thing I've got, when we did the opening night of the Pitney tour, which took place I think in Birmingham, he bought, bought us a bottle of champagne as a, you know, celebratory thing. I've still got that bottle. Oh, wow. Unfortunately there's no autographs on it. I've still got it. Never met him at all after that. He was just part and parcel of Apple's background staff, if you like.
- [62:54]
Interviewer
Sure. What about Derek Taylor?
- [62:56]
Ron Griffiths
Well, we saw him, bumped into him regularly and in all fairness, Derek Taylor was the casting Vote to get me out of the band. Okay. That's jumping the gun again, if you like. I mean, okay, you can tag this on at the end. But life was unbearable for Maureen, my wife at the time and myself by virtue of a story you may well be familiar with about the late night disco in Tommy's bedroom.
- [63:22]
Interviewer
Right, right, right. We'll come back to that one.
- [63:24]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, okay.
- [63:25]
Interviewer
But one thing I am wondering about is late 68, I think it's the autumn that maybe Tomorrow is issued as a single. So there's no album yet, but you guys would have been around. I've seen one photo of you with Ringo at the Apple Christmas party in 68. Were you around when the Hell's Angels were there?
- [63:43]
Ron Griffiths
No.
- [63:44]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [63:45]
Ron Griffiths
I can't expand on that. Such a simple no. I'm sorry.
- [63:48]
Interviewer
Okay. I just didn't know because my understanding was there was two separate parties, one that they were at, that was unforgettable, if you witnessed it, and then another one for Apple staff and people were connected with the label. So you weren't at that one. Okay. Now, did you get one of those Apple watches?
- [64:04]
Ron Griffiths
No.
- [64:05]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [64:05]
Ron Griffiths
Nothing like that.
- [64:06]
Interviewer
Okay. I was wondering, but in 68, there is an Ivy's Christmas message that you recorded.
- [64:12]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, that was a little bit below the belt, I suppose. Is that the. The first day of Chris. Is that the one? On the first day of Christmas? My true legitimate. Was that the one. Well, on behalf of the group, we'd like to wish you all. All the best for the coming festivities and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, that's initially what this interview is for, to wish everyone a really merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. We'd like to do it in song if you give us a few minutes of your time.
- [64:39]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
We wish you a merry Christmas we wish you a merry Christmas we wish you a merry Christmas and a happy New Year.
- [64:55]
Ron Griffiths
Whoopee.
- [65:00]
Interviewer
Do you have any memory of that?
- [65:02]
Ron Griffiths
We actually, I think we recorded that ages before with Di Jenkins. On the 12th day of Christmas my.
- [65:08]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
True love gave me 12 cardboard cuppings of filters 10 points of blood, look like heart, seven cherries, seven plastic flagons, five iron dog, four white sticks, real rubber crutches, two glass eyes and a guy dog in the wheel.
- [65:41]
Ron Griffiths
We didn't do that with Tommy because if it's still there to listen to, you'll hear Di Jenkins voice on it. It wasn't politically correct, let's put it that way.
- [65:50]
Interviewer
Okay. All right. As we continue to jump around, maybe tomorrow. I've seen, I think, at least three different film Performances of it. There's the Apple Studio one. There was an Italian TV one which might be at Apple Studio, I can't remember. But the one that was very distinctive because I only saw it in recent years was the Piccadilly one. Do you have memories of these specific shoots?
- [66:14]
Ron Griffiths
The Piccadilly one? I just remember we had to go down there. They would film it there, and then, you know, they just played Speaker. You know, they had it on a tape machine or something and they just did it in black and white. I mean, there's nothing particularly wonderful about it. I can't even remember whether we were. Did Tommy lip sync to that? I haven't seen it for ages because Mike and myself were sitting or leaning against the railings. We didn't have much to do with that. I think I lip synced the last bit where it crescendos at the end, but that's all I can remember about that. We did another film session at a fairground amusement park in Holland somewhere. Whether that's still there, I don't know.
- [66:54]
Interviewer
But the one in Apple is the one that. It was the first one I ever saw that was actual performance footage of the Ivys, which is not a very common thing. And you're the one that really stands out because you're kind of clowning it up with the drumstick.
- [67:08]
Ron Griffiths
The strangest thing about that, I mean, they didn't do it in one take. I just thought that was a throwaway take. I didn't do it because I thought it was the main. And that's the one that they used or the one that they kept. We did it three or four times, and I only did that once. And to my eternal embarrassment, it's the one that everybody sees. Yeah.
- [67:31]
Interviewer
So this is done in the basement of Savile Row. And if I'm getting a chronology right, was this just before the Beatles moved in there and filmed for the Get Back project, or was it after?
- [67:42]
Ron Griffiths
Oh, that would have been just before.
- [67:44]
Interviewer
That's what I thought. Okay. So there was no recording gear set up there yet. It was just a room, just a rehearsal room. Right.
- [67:51]
Ron Griffiths
The actual Apple studios may well have been in its early installation, but nothing was actually working at that time.
- [67:59]
Interviewer
Right, Right. And when the Beatles showed up, they found out nothing was still working. But so early 69, you guys did this TV appearance for Lulu's show. Unfortunately, the tape doesn't seem to have survived. But on the same show was the famous Jimi Hendrix performance. Do you have any memories of that?
- [68:19]
Ron Griffiths
Of course. It was phenomenal. You Know he was big news at the time. We'd gone down and done the rehearsals. They do all the camera angles and all this sort of stuff because when it went out later, it was a live show anyway. We didn't know it. But while we were doing the. We did both sides of the record, which was unusual back in those days. When we'd finished our little rehearsal session, Jimi Hendrix came up to us and hey man, how did you get that crazy guitar sound on that second song that you sang?
- [69:07]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
The batshik lives in a house with 120 rooms but doesn't bakers and candles it bakers and horses and horses brooms People don't like the danger the pool But I know I feel siphary I know her better she lent me 10 bath and I know she's in love with me oh wow. She's a beautiful girl she. She doesn't have a care She's a wonderful girl and a dance a millionaire.
- [69:47]
Ron Griffiths
Pete said, well, I just ran my guitar through a Leslie tone cabinet. You know what they are.
- [69:52]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [69:52]
Ron Griffiths
I'm afraid perhaps not many of the listeners and the reader and viewers know that, but it's associated with a Hammond organ and it's got a fan in it which makes that. And that's how Pete got that sound for this guitar solo. So consequently we went up to the studio, up to the restaurant up there and had a meal and had a chat to them. Of course, the bit that you don't see is our blooming performance at the start of the show. Most unusual back then, doing both sides of your record. We actually lip synced it because the singing was live at the back end, was what we played sang to. And well, you've seen. You may. Well, I don't think it exists. But the one part that you see on that film is Jimi Hendrix and the Experience halfway through hey Joe they suddenly stopped halfway through and said, that's enough of that rubbish. We'd like to pay tribute to Eric Clapton, Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker Cream who just folded and they started playing Sunshine of youf Love. Right. And of course, because it's a live show, it's gotta finish dead on. Eight o', clock, I think it was. There's a family audience in there and the production team are behind the camera hoping that they're doing all this to him and he's not paying a blind bit of attention. Thinking you can imagine what it was like. It was pandemonium in that. I've never heard such language coming from the TV crew. We're being put up here. The air was blue, There were kids in the audience and they're hearing the F word, the C word. Get the bad. It was a rioting awful. Wow, that lives long in the memory as well. Eventually they managed to stop it and he went off with a smirking smile on his face. And we joined them afterwards in the BBC Club bar and had a drink with them and had a bit of a chat about nothing in particular, Wish us luck and all that sort of stuff.
- [72:35]
Interviewer
What an amazing thing.
- [72:36]
Ron Griffiths
Never to forget.
- [72:37]
Interviewer
So maybe Tomorrow comes out as a single and you guys are still recording. You sort of piecemeal putting together the maybe Tomorrow album at that point.
- [72:45]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, Stuff that we already had in the can, I dare say.
- [72:48]
Robert Rodriguez (Host)
Uh huh.
- [72:48]
Interviewer
And it's not all one producer. It's different people responsible for different tracks.
- [72:52]
Ron Griffiths
It was a bit of a hodgepodge of different people's different ideas.
- [72:56]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Dear Angie, Just these lines to confirm something you may know. Dear Angie, please, please excuse the writing, it's my nerves, you know. When you caught your train today you took my heart and soul away I can't wait till Friday night To see.
- [73:28]
Ron Griffiths
It touch you, hold you tight.
- [73:33]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Dear Angie, how's your face? Folks and relatives, I hope they're well.
- [73:42]
Ron Griffiths
Going back to that Dear Angie song on there, Tony Visconti wanted to put strings on it. He ordered eight musicians in. I think it was three cellos. It was a mix of strings anyway, and he thought it sounded a bit thin. And he kidded them that the first take hadn't recorded properly. Can you do it again? And we ended up with 30 odds. He had far more strings on there than what we had actually booked. Otherwise he just doubled the buck. Extra money from the musicians union. So that's the story associated with that one. Tony Visconti's little trick to double the string accompaniment. He was a lovely fellow, Tony. I love Tony. He was great, Luke.
- [74:21]
Interviewer
Now, how did you come to write that song?
- [74:23]
Ron Griffiths
Well, it's the story of my then she was my girlfriend at the time, Maureen Angela Atkinson was her maiden name. It was a love story, really. She lived 30 miles north of Hamel. She would come down London, I should say, she'd come down visit. I'd take her to the station and see her off. She used to catch a train back home. And I came back to the studio one night, a little sweat box. And I got this idea for when you got your train today. He took my heart and soul away and I thought, I can base a song on that. And I just sat There. Strumming a few chords. And that's how that came about. It was a dedication to Maureen. Her middle name was Angela, Hence which scans better. Dear Maureen wouldn't work. Dear Angela wouldn't work Dear Angie. That sounds all right. And that's how that song came about.
- [75:21]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Bye Bye. I've known you now for one whole year there's something I've not told you Dear Turn the blind eye for too long this letter proves that I've been wrong Dear Angie, I've been About the bus it's time I spoke my mind.
- [75:57]
Interviewer
What was her response when she heard it?
- [75:59]
Ron Griffiths
I think to this day she's chuffed up. She's pleased that it's there, you know, I don't know whether she knows the facts and figures about all the. The hits it gets on Spotify. I mean, if you got paid for the hits on that, it'd be a millionaire.
- [76:13]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Right.
- [76:15]
Interviewer
It's a damn good track. It's beautifully produced. And the amazing thing is there's so much dysfunction going on by this time at Apple, where the maybe Tomorrow album gets issued, but not in Britain, not in America. But Dear Angie gets issued as a single and you don't even find out about it till much later.
- [76:33]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, well, to be honest with you, I wasn't aware of it to start with. That happened probably after I'd gone. I can't remember. It just didn't. It wasn't headline news. I was amazed when I got to hear about the fact that it had been stuck out as a single.
- [76:47]
Interviewer
It was a hit.
- [76:48]
Ron Griffiths
What good did it do?
- [76:50]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Right.
- [76:50]
Interviewer
It was a hit where it was issued. Right.
- [76:52]
Ron Griffiths
Was it? I don't know any facts and figures about that.
- [76:55]
Interviewer
Believe it or not, it's a terrific recording. So I'm glad that somebody back in 1969 recognized it was a song of quality.
- [77:02]
Ron Griffiths
Well, a naturalist. I am proud of it. That's my. My golden moment as a composer, if you like.
- [77:07]
Interviewer
Sure, absolutely. So now here's your golden moment as somebody influencing events. The day that you're at the Park Avenue house and the reporter shows up from Disc Magazine.
- [77:20]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah. I was the only one home at the time. I opened the door and there's a couple. There's a young man and a young lady standing there, introduced themselves. And I said, well, if you want to interview the band, we're not here. It's only me. Well, you do. Will he be happy to answer a few questions? Oh, yeah, Come in. I said, do you want a coffee? Yeah. So I made them a coffee and Went, sat upstairs. And they fired various questions at me. What's it like working for the Beatles? And of course, the rest, you know, it's. You know, it's okay. But we keep submitting songs and we keep getting them turned down. The most response we get we've had from the Beatles is, would you like a Siggy? We're very, very disillusioned or disappointed or worse to that effect. Of course, they print all this stuff for sensationalism, I suppose. Fortunately, Paul McCartney happens to read that magazine, comes across it. And that's how he got in touch with us about. I've got a song you can do. I've got a lot of work on at the minute. Perhaps you could do me a favor. You can have this song, but you're going to have to come up with two others for the film that they wanted to go in. And he told us about this film that Ringo was involved with. The Peter Sellers called the Magic Christian. You can have this song, but you must do two others. So they made an arrangement for us to go down to Pinewood Studios. And watch what in the trade are known as the rushes. And give us an idea of what scenes that they were going to go in where they wanted these songs. Unfortunately, it was a wonderful insight into inspiration for the two songs that we came up with.
- [78:55]
Interviewer
Which was Carry On Until Tomorrow and Rock of All Ages.
- [78:57]
Ron Griffiths
Yep, exactly. There again, I missed out a Rock of All Ages one. Because they recorded that when I was in bed with Blooming Chickenpox. I missed out on that one. But that's another wonderful piece of product. I love that. So if you like. That's the one track that we've done. Apart from Come and Get it, where I think that's a classic song that, you know, it's beautifully done. But that's how it came about. We went down and did all that. And sitting in front of us when we were watching the film rushes. Ringo and Peter Sellers were sitting in front of us. I've seen that film, and I just think it's a load of rubbish. I know. I've never. I've never read. It's a lot of crap, quite frankly.
- [80:08]
Interviewer
But the music's good.
- [80:09]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, the music's okay. Yeah.
- [80:12]
Interviewer
So you now are being gifted a Paul McCartney composition. To sort of get things going again. He had demoed it. We know about this because the demo came out in the Anthology disc. He'd cut this during the Abbey Road sessions. So then is this when he shows up at Park Avenue to present it to you? Guys.
- [80:30]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, he turned up one Sunday morning, he told us, you know, the arrangement, he was going to arrive at 11 o', clock, something like that. And we're all up in bills office, stroke bedroom looking out of the window to see, you know, is he going to show up? You know, looking at our watches and eventually this little yellow mini car pulls up outside and out gets Paul. And we, we'd not met him until that particular point and we couldn't believe it. Good God, it is him. It's him, it's Paul McCartney. Then he comes and he introduced himself, he all shook hands, he said, right, this is the song I've been. You've been hearing about. This is the hit. He actually said, this is the hit. You must play it exactly as you hear it. Don't vary it, don't muck about with it, just play what you hear, okay? So we learned mightily impressed with it. We rehearsed it and on the day of the recording it said, you know, he stayed for a coffee, then he went. He didn't stick around for long. On the day of the recording session, we'd rehearsed it, we'd done a rough platinum track. 1, 2, 3, 4. If you want it, here it is, come and get it, take five. 1, 2, 3, 4.
- [81:57]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
I.
- [82:29]
Ron Griffiths
Of course they want to know who's going to sing lead on it. Or Paul wants to know who's going to sing lead on it. So I forget how it came about and he said, right, Pete, go and sing on top of it. So Pete had a go and he said, we let you know. Then he asked me and I went and had a go. And he said, well that's not bad one. He said, but you sounded at the pit too much of Reg Presley. You move me. The Trogs. I was probably overdoing the. Anyway, Tommy had a go and he'd settled for Tommy to this day I said, well, what you hear of Tommy is because it's double tracked. When it's, you know, the single track version, the solo voice, without being double tracked, it doesn't sound particularly good. It only sounds good when it's double tracked. Like a lot of recording artists were double tracked.
- [83:13]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Did I hear you saying that There must be a catch. Will you walk away from a fool and his money, Sonny? If you want it here it is, come and get it but you better hurry cause it's going fast. You better hurry cause it's going anyway.
- [83:38]
Ron Griffiths
Tommy got the job and I always said for a laugh it's the Liverpool connection that's why he got the job. Anyway, we went through several takes of it, as you may well know, and we'd gone for about take 8, 9. I forget when it was. And at the end, rather than just stop dead, I did that bass run off, but it goes, which isn't on Paul's demo. And when we'd finished it, he said, hey, Ron, I love that. So we'll keep that. And that's another thing that's up here. It's not only the studio recordings which are there. You know, you. If you hear that session, it's there, but that particular anecdote is gone. And that's like missing the bloody Jimi Hendrix video, you know.
- [84:28]
Interviewer
Right, right.
- [84:29]
Ron Griffiths
That would have been another feather in my cup, but there you are.
- [84:32]
Interviewer
Well, it's funny that you say Jimi Hendrix because I remember the first time I heard Come and Get It. My ear is zeroed in on that part. It's a bit hey Joe, isn't it?
- [84:40]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, exactly. Maybe that's where it came from. But it fitted that song.
- [84:48]
Interviewer
Sure.
- [84:48]
Ron Griffiths
It's perfect. That's great. Well, it did the job because he kept it and he liked it and that's his history.
- [84:55]
Interviewer
Yep. So you've got the other two songs to knock out for the film that come up with Carry On Till Tomorrow and Rock of All Ages. Now you missed the Rock of All Ages session because of this ill timed bout with chicken pox. But Paul actually plays piano on that one, Right?
- [85:10]
Ron Griffiths
I believe he does.
- [85:11]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [85:12]
Ron Griffiths
He plays tambourine on Come and Get It.
- [85:14]
Interviewer
Oh, okay.
- [85:15]
Ron Griffiths
Of course there's no guitar on that. It's just piano, bass and drums anyway.
- [85:18]
Interviewer
Right, right. Is it Pete playing piano or is it Paul on Come and Get It?
- [85:22]
Ron Griffiths
No, it's Pete. That was Pete.
- [85:23]
Interviewer
That's what I thought. Okay. At this point, was there talk of a second album yet since the first one? Maybe Tomorrow came out some places, but not everywhere. Was there thought that that was still going to come out in Britain and in the States? Or were they already looking past that? Because now we've got this Magic Christian stuff that we want to promote.
- [85:42]
Ron Griffiths
I think that was the whole idea was to promote Magic Christian and take stuff off the Ivy's album and put it on there and then obviously package it as Bad Finger.
- [85:52]
Interviewer
Okay. You were part of the discussion then of changing the name.
- [85:56]
Ron Griffiths
We had brainstorming sessions, as they call them, to come up with a different name. They wanted the name to go because it confused people. There was another band that had had chart success called the Ivy League who made Some good singles, actually.
- [86:11]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Just like a breath of spring, you came my way. I heard the bluebird sing. But not today. Cause it's been a time and the leaves are brown since you went away My world fell down.
- [86:45]
Ron Griffiths
Fel. But they wanted another name, so we submitted various names to Apple. I think my suggestion was Home. John Lennon suggested the pre spelled P R I X, which you could construe as the Prix. There were various suggestions. The name Bad Finger came up after I'd left and that came from Mal Evans's suggestion. Badfinger Boogie, was it?
- [87:16]
Interviewer
Yeah, or Neil Aspinall, one or the other.
- [87:19]
Ron Griffiths
I know it came up. I think one of them had damaged his hand or bashed a fino or something that I think they were mucking about on the piano. And he called it Bad Finger Boogie. I think that's where the name came from.
- [87:28]
Interviewer
Okay. The name change didn't happen while you were still in the band. Okay. So as has been discussed in various places, various interviews, your son Jason was born in December 68 and you're married.
- [87:41]
Ron Griffiths
That's right.
- [87:42]
Interviewer
And there's this whole mindset Bill Collins has about women having to be kept completely out of the picture. And that's really counter. Pete had a girlfriend and Mike had a girlfriend. There were women around, but he wanted them to be invisible and certainly not married. Which sort of is an echo of Brian Epstein not wanting John Lennon's wife to be news for as long as he could keep a lid on that. So it's putting pressures on you for sure. You think that Tommy, then, when he was having this music club, going at all hours in the middle of the night, waking up your baby was sort of his passive aggressive way to force you out. Was that part and parcel of we can't have this guy with a wife around?
- [88:23]
Ron Griffiths
I don't really know. I'm going to say music club. I mean, we'd come back from gigs late and early in the morning and I'd creep in not to wake up the baby because we were all in one room. And rather than go straight to bed, Tommy would put a disc on his hi Fi machine and not have it on at a sensible volume. It would be on what he'd have on the day, you know, really loud. And that just went on regularly. Often he would apologize at the time, but the next time it happened, he would just carry on. I have a hunch it may have been orchestrated by Bill. I really don't know the truth of this. All I know is that it created a bad feeling and created an awful atmosphere. It could have been orchestrated just to make things virtually impossible for me. It was causing friction between Maureen and myself. Naturally, we couldn't afford to go anywhere else and live anywhere else. It didn't affect my contribution to the band, rehearsing, playing, doing gigs or anything. It was just that thing at the end of the night, coming back off the road and having that to contend with. It had got to a point then where the three of them and Bill had got together. Perhaps we ought to consider asking Ron if he would leave the band. We don't think he's one of the boys anymore, as we. Tommy put it. Pete and Mike said, well, we don't want Ron to go. So they took it down to Apple and presented the information or the evidence to Derek Taylor. And he said, well, if you want a casting vote and you think it's having a bad effect on the band, I'll vote in favor of Tommy and Bill and that. So they asked me to go.
- [89:51]
Interviewer
That's with Derek Taylor not knowing anything other than their side from. Yeah, right, right.
- [89:57]
Ron Griffiths
That's the God's honest truth. Yes, things were bad. Right. I didn't want to jack it in, but I was forced in. And it was an intolerable situation.
- [90:06]
Interviewer
Thing that I think people knowing this story would wonder about is you're clearly a guy with a lot of talent, could write amazing bass player. And in fact, I think this was something you found out later on that you didn't know at the time was people were requesting you on their sessions and the word wasn't getting to you that people wanted your bass playing in the studio.
- [90:27]
Ron Griffiths
That's right.
- [90:28]
Interviewer
Was there any scenario you could see where you could carry on making music at the time, even outside the Ivies.
- [90:34]
Ron Griffiths
Tony Visconti told me that I could get session work if I wanted. He said, you're a good enough earplayer, even though I wasn't a reader of the Staves. He said, you're a good ear player. He said, you know, you don't need the music. And I never followed it up. When I'd left, I did get an offer of joining a band called Dodgers.
- [90:53]
Interviewer
The same one Tommy ended up in.
- [90:55]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah. Wow. I got a phone call from chap named Tim Boyle. I don't know if that name rings any bells with you. Tim Boyle. He used to work for the Arthur Howes Agency. He rang me up and asked if I wanted to join the band called Dodgers. I'd left the band then. I had regular money coming in and I didn't have the guts to go back into an insecure situation. So I just had to let it go. I said, no, I'm sorry, I can't do this. I'm where I am. I'm earning money. It's not much fun, but I'm earning regular good money, and thanks, but no thanks. And so it was then I did plenty of local gigs with different bands. I mean, I kept playing. There was never any professional chance to go back into the music business. The saddest thing of all is if Peter Hamm hadn't committed suicide, I'm convinced on any future project he'd had post Badfinger, he'd have asked me to come in on various collaborations. I know he would have done, but of course, we'll never, ever know that now.
- [91:54]
Interviewer
Did you stay connected with them socially?
- [91:57]
Ron Griffiths
Well, for a start, yeah. I went on to several sessions.
- [92:07]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Everything better. I just want to take you there, baby Want to take it over Try and see my body to me Let it go show me all.
- [92:36]
Ron Griffiths
I went down to one in Marble Arch where they were working with Todd Rundgren, and I met him. I spent ages. I. I'd been to two or three sessions with him and socialized and had a drink and no bad feeling or anything. Eventually that petered out, but they were so busy and touring and stuff, I couldn't always be on hand to go down and meet up. So it cut short about, I don't know, 71, 72.
- [93:01]
Interviewer
Did you continue to listen to their music?
- [93:03]
Ron Griffiths
Yes.
- [93:04]
Interviewer
Did you? Yeah. Okay.
- [93:05]
Ron Griffiths
Oh, yeah, I've got all the albums. Yes. Naturally, I would never criticize my Joey Mullen. He was. He's a fine musician. He's a damn good composer. I like the stuff he contributed. It's. You know, it went the way it did.
- [93:19]
Interviewer
What are your. Some of your favorite recordings? What do you particularly like?
- [93:22]
Ron Griffiths
Oh, crikey. Now you're asking a question. There's loads of them.
- [93:27]
Interviewer
Or let me put it a different way. Were there songs that you heard on Badfinger albums that you had heard in their earliest forms back when you were still living at Park Avenue?
- [93:37]
Ron Griffiths
No dice. That was, you know, that was the first album that came out with Joey on it, wasn't it?
- [93:42]
Interviewer
Yes.
- [93:42]
Ron Griffiths
I mean, I. I was impressed with that, and I was impressed pretty much right the way through. I'd have to have an album cover in front of me with the titles nowhere. I hadn't got any form of dementia yet. But bringing things to mind isn't as easy as it was.
- [93:55]
Interviewer
So no dice. And then you described Todd Rundgren. So that would be straight up. And then there was Ass, and then there was the Warner Brothers album Bad Finger. And then Wish youh Were Here, Wish you were here. Of course, Mike is contributing material along the way as well.
- [94:08]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, the stuff's excellent. I was very impressed with the re release of Headfirst. Oh, yes, the one that has got the new lineup, if you like, with Bob Jackson. Yeah, the early version of that was quite rough. But this new rehash that he's reproduced because he managed to get the master tape back. I mean, that's professional quality production.
- [94:30]
Interviewer
It sounds amazing to me.
- [94:31]
Ron Griffiths
It was as good as Chris Thomas's.
- [94:33]
Interviewer
Exactly right.
- [94:34]
Ron Griffiths
It's a great album. It's good.
- [94:36]
Interviewer
Do you remember you'd fallen out of touch as you describe with Pete? Do you remember getting the word of what happened?
- [94:42]
Ron Griffiths
Oh, yeah. I was out in my garden digging the garden, believe it or not. We'd not long moved into this house in Hemel and I was up the top with my daughter. Then she was pretending to help dad with her little fork. And Maureen comes to the back door and shouts up the back of the gun, ron, Bev's on the phone. She wants you. She sounds a bit upset. Okay. So I put my stuff down. I've gone downstairs and picked up the phone and hello, Bev? Ron. And very, very faintly she said, ron, sit down. She said, I've got some bad news about Pete. I sat on the stairs, I said, well, what's up? Has he had an accident? And then she told me what had happened. Of course I was devastated. I said, look, I'm going to put the phone down now. Thank you for letting me know. I'm ever so sorry. I'll speak to you again. I put the phone down and I thought I was dreaming it. I didn't believe it. I just couldn't believe it. That's how I got to hear about it. Totally unexpected.
- [95:36]
Interviewer
What an awful thing. Did you go to the funeral or did you see the family after that?
- [95:41]
Ron Griffiths
Well, I went down for the funeral. This is another crazy thing. Bill Collins rang me up and said, ronnie, you heard about Pete? I'm advising you not to go down for the funeral. I said, why? He said, you know, it'll just be bad blood. I said, no, they won't. I said, when I used to go back, when we were working down there, my parents had moved up to London. I said, I used to stay at Pete's and his mum was like a mother to me. I'm not going to ignore that. Bill Collins didn't go because he knew that they'd be giving him a load of grief. So I actually drove down with Beverly, picked Beverly up and took Beverly down for the funeral. That was an awful experience, but he actually rang me up and said, don't go down there, you'll be inviting trouble.
- [96:21]
Interviewer
Oh, geez. It was the opposite.
- [96:23]
Ron Griffiths
As soon as I walked in through their front door at 15 Gwent Gardens, Catherine's there, give me a hug. And although Will, his dad, wasn't exactly a hugger, he shook hands and. Thanks for coming, Ron. So, Bill Collins. Yeah, that's how I heard about it.
- [96:40]
Interviewer
Did Tommy's end surprise you?
- [96:43]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, it did and it didn't because I knew Tommy could be. He could be introverted. When Tommy was up, he was up. When he was done, he was quite deep and introverted. I was shocked. I must be honest, I. I didn't think. Yes, I was shocked. I was more shocked with Pete. Devastated and shocked at Pete. I just couldn't see it happening. Pete did have a macabre sense of humor, but I didn't think. He was never that sort of deep and he would never go into fits of depression when I knew him, whereas Tommy could. Right was when I heard how Tommy's family had found out and Mariana had found out about it. I couldn't believe it, you know. Fancy being told that by your son.
- [97:24]
Interviewer
Yeah, horrible.
- [97:25]
Ron Griffiths
The whole thing's got. Awful, but shocking, you know, it's devastating stuff to find out.
- [97:31]
Interviewer
Did you stay in contact with Mike through the years?
- [97:34]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, I was in touch with Mike pretty regularly. I went out and visited him twice. The first time was to do. There's probably a film clip of it. He wanted me to be part of a charity gig that he was doing, put together a band called Mad Finger. He wasn't certain that I'd be able to get the time off work to come out and do it. He'd already roped in some young lad on bass and when it came to do the gig, there were two of us on stage playing bass. So I was out there for a fortnight doing that. The day I arrived, it was a hellish hot day. I just got off the plane. We went into this tin shed type place for a rehearsal. It was sweltering in there to rehearse what we were going to do. The gig itself was quite fun and I'd been out there since that just to go for a holiday and spend time with him and hang about, just have fun.
- [98:23]
Interviewer
That's nice.
- [98:23]
Ron Griffiths
The last time I was with him, this is another quirky sort of a story. Well, last time I was with him, we were at a local bar called Froggers. We used to go there regular for a drink and a game of darts. He was sitting to me one night, he said, do you know, Ron? He said, I got a horrible feeling when I go, I'm going to go the same way as my dad. His father passed away fairly young. He was 57, 58 when he died, George with a brain. The hemorrhage or tumor. And of course, that's what happened to Mike. Oh, geez. And he actually said that to me over a drink. I've got a horrible feeling I'm gonna go the same way as me dad. Cheers. There again. When that happened, you know, you could have knocked me down with a feather. I just couldn't believe it.
- [99:03]
Interviewer
It's way too young.
- [99:04]
Ron Griffiths
Exactly. You all know what he was like. He was a. He was a joy to be with.
- [99:09]
Interviewer
Really funny, great dry sense of humor.
- [99:11]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, you're telling me. They're all very much missed. I mean, I was very, very. Everybody thinks I've got this hate with Joey. I was saddened when I heard about his illness and obviously very, very sad when he passed away. And I sent a message to his family as well. So there was never any true animosity. I mean, I resented the fact that he was pocketing some of my rightful gains. But at the end of the day, I never ever decried his ability and his contribution to the band.
- [99:39]
Interviewer
That's something you've talked about in other conversations, that you were given a check, like a settlement when you left the band at some point. I think you've described it as like a 7,000 pound check. But you got half of it due to taxes.
- [99:52]
Ron Griffiths
That's right.
- [99:53]
Interviewer
Was there a piece of paper you had assigned? Basically, Bill tried to make out that.
- [99:57]
Ron Griffiths
I'd signed my rights away. All he said to me was, you can sign for this cheque. That's all I did. I haven't got a copy of the paperwork. I just signed for a cheque. I've still got to put a stacked copy of that check. But I didn't sign to quit any rights or anything. I just signed for the check. That's all I knew. And they've always tried to make out that I signed my rights away. The other thing I didn't get was they reapportioned royalties at a court case in the High Court in London, where I was expected to attend, but I didn't get the invite. If they sent it out. I never received it.
- [100:34]
Interviewer
Was this in the 90s when all the Apple stuff was being writed? Okay, okay.
- [100:39]
Ron Griffiths
I was never phoned, but Bill could have phoned up and said, did you get. I got nothing. I didn't know anything about it until it was finished. That's why I missed out on any rightful dues.
- [100:48]
Interviewer
So is it the sort of situation where what it would cost you to litigate this would probably cost more than what you'd get returned?
- [100:56]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah. I did get in touch with two showbiz lawyers and they said, it's a gamble, Ron. You. You may well end up out of pocket. You probably cost more in legal costs, the multi game. So I just gave up on the idea.
- [101:08]
Interviewer
Well, I did see the good news at some point that a gold record was finally awarded for Come and Get It. How did that come about?
- [101:18]
Ron Griffiths
Well, before Bill Collins ever passed away, I was always intrigued what the sales figures were like for Come and Get It. And on the occasions when I. I used to go down and visit Bill when he was still in char from St. Giles. Oh, St. Peter. He said, oh, it tailed off before it got to 900,000. I said, well, why didn't we get an award for it? Silverdisk? And he said, well, they don't do that sort of thing now. So I just let it drop and I don't know where I got it from. Somebody informed me that it had sold over a million copies. So with that in mind, I thought, well, there must be a chance of getting some reward for this. I don't mean financial. So I made some inquiries. I got in touch with various people. I actually rang and spoke with Tony Visconti and he said, I can't help you personally, Ron. He said, it seems to me like you've got a strong case there. And he put me in touch with his manager or his agent, whatever. I sent him an email with, I'd like this done for him, not just for me, but for the three estates for the three widows. And he said, well, I can't do it for them. I'll do it for you, but you must send me 350 pounds up front. I said, no, I don't want it to be just for me. I said, this is a whole. This is for the band members, you know, that were no longer with us. And he said, no. Yeah. So I, I said, well, you can forget it and put the phone down. Then I thought, I wonder if Apple had got any inroads. So I made some inquiries and got put in touch with a Gentleman in this particular person. I sent an email off explaining all and could you look into it for me? Garth Tweedale his name was and he replied to me and he said, well, I'll look into it for you. He said I promise nothing, I'll get back to you. Three or four days later I got an email back, made some inquiries on and he said yes, it actually did sell worldwide, 1,270,000 odd copies and we're looking in to see what we can do. And then a week or so went by and he came back and he said we've decided that you're entitled to a gold disc, all four of you. We're going to get it sorted out and done for you. There'll be no presentation, it'll be just mailed out. Can I have the mail addresses of Mariana, Ed, Ellie and yourself and when the discs arrive we'll mail them out to you. So I thanked him thoroughly and I couldn't believe it, you know, I thought because I was expecting a complete no chance thanks to try in. I can never understand why they didn't even issue a silver disc. However, not long after that he mailed me and he said the seven inch blanks have arrived with having them created for you and you should be receiving them in due course in the mail. Maybe a week or two later a box comes in of cardboard. Well, when I was taking it out of the box I was expecting, I bet this is going to be absolute rubbish. I wasn't expecting anything quite like this.
- [104:03]
Interviewer
Oh wow, that's beautiful.
- [104:06]
Ron Griffiths
Wow. I was, you know, I was totally amazed when I saw that. So as you can imagine, it's hanging up on the wall. I was so pleased, so was my partner, you know, she was absolutely. She couldn't believe she was expecting something plastic looking, I expect, like I was but that was an absolute icing on the cake.
- [104:25]
Interviewer
Worth the wait?
- [104:26]
Ron Griffiths
Yes, it was okay, a long, long wait. But yes, everybody tells me much deserved.
- [104:33]
Interviewer
Yes, for sure. That's wonderful. So how did you connect with Bob Jackson and I guess you guys did some Ivy sort of commemoration stuff that you performed for the first time I.
- [104:44]
Ron Griffiths
Met Bob was going to see a couple of local Swansea bands playing down in London I expect. But more recently he came to my place once he was putting an album together and he wanted me to dub some bass on. This is when, before I moved here we would. He came and stayed the night with me down in Royal Court where I was. That's the first time I actually, that wasn't the first time I Met him. Think, think, think. That's the first time I forget what year it was. We'd gone to London and we'd gone for a meal, we'd gone to see a gig somewhere. That's the first time I actually met him face to face. Since then it's been bits and bobs, like that recording session. He brought a portable studio down and we did some bits and bobs since then. The other time I've been in his company was when he was doing gigs with the Fortunes. We'd gone to see the gig, go to see the band play and we'd met beforehand and had a drink in a local pub and that's where we'd met him. The other times were when he was doing his UK version of Bad Finger. They were doing a gig in the stables in Milton Keynes and I told him we'd come up and see them and we met up before the gig started. We went to the bar in the break and the four of them came out because he wanted to introduce the rest of his band to an original member. And they said, would you come up and do come and get it for us in the second half? And I was embarrassed, to be perfectly honest. I said no. I said, I'd rather not. Of course, my partner, Val. Yes, you do, you know you do. Get up there and get on there and do it. So we did a couple of tunes into the second spot and there were only about 300 people in. It wasn't for that. And Bob announced, we've got somebody pretty special in the audience tonight and give it a bit of build up and course, come on, down you come. So I walk down the aisle and there's all this hey going on. The fellow that was playing bass with them, he's got a Rickenbacker bass. I've never played one before. He said, well, I've only had it a week. I said, which knob? There's what? Anyway, I got on and it went down well. I got up and did come and get it and had a good laugh with it.
- [106:45]
Interviewer
Did you do your Hendrix run at the end?
- [106:47]
Ron Griffiths
Yes, naturally.
- [106:49]
Interviewer
Okay, that must have been a crowd pleaser.
- [106:52]
Ron Griffiths
Yeah, it was a good experience.
- [106:53]
Interviewer
That's great. So are you involved at all in the new releases? The Ivy's stuff that's been flowing out.
- [106:59]
Ron Griffiths
Oh, bit by bit. Sometimes they're stuck for lyrics. They're either indecipherable or they can't make out quite what's being sung by the Pete or Tommy. That's the only way it's Been so far, but currently there's plans in the offing. They want me to do a cover song on another set of tunes they're putting out. They want me to do a cover version of Take Care of My Baby. If you know that song, I want it done completely differently. I want to weld a couple of the lyrics and I don't want the background vocals in there either. I think they spoil it. They're going to mix something together. Can you put strings in there instead of the. They've sent me a list of places, recording studios, which are miles away from me. My grandson Ryan's got a professional setup in his bedroom. He actually, until Covid and the lockdown, he was on the verge of setting himself up as a producer. So I'm hoping that when I do get this back in track, they want me to put bass on it and do the vocals. Ryan will be able to sort that out for me up there. So he only lives 20 miles away, so hopefully that'll come off. I don't know much about it yet. I sent an email off this morning, actually, with my requests and the key. I want to send it in because my voice isn't the same as it was 50, 60 years ago.
- [108:14]
Interviewer
Right.
- [108:15]
Ron Griffiths
So hopefully that'll come off.
- [108:16]
Interviewer
Have you thought about writing your own story?
- [108:19]
Ron Griffiths
I've had many people say that I just don't want to do it. I think everybody knows what there is to know and just leave it at that.
- [108:25]
Interviewer
What did you think of the Madhavina book?
- [108:27]
Ron Griffiths
It was very, very good. Interesting read for me. Obviously, the only thing. This is going to sound terribly snobbish. I'm a bit of a stickler for English spellings or the English language. It's a lot of American spellings in it. That's the only thing I would criticize it for. But it's a good book.
- [108:43]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Okay.
- [108:44]
Ron Griffiths
I wasn't disappointed with it. I sometimes read crime novels by American authors and it's the American spellings. Yeah. You know, a car tire spelled T I R E. That's when you like this. Anyway, that's. That's just me being snobbish.
- [109:00]
Interviewer
Sure.
- [109:01]
Ron Griffiths
Okay.
- [109:01]
Interviewer
Well, you're entitled. So, looking back, it would seem from everything you've described and everything we know, some people might look at it as well. You had this fabulous arc. You were well placed to meet some amazing people and be a part of this rock and roll tapestry of British Rock in the 1960s, in the Beatles orbit and sharing a stage with Hendrix and the Marmalade and Hollies and kinks and all this great proximity and you got to observe it all. You got to be a part of it. You are part of a record that will never die and you at last got some recognition for it. Looking back, and now you've got the satisfaction of a family well raised and you've got a musical tradition carrying on to this day in the 21st century, which is wonderful. Is there anything you would do differently looking back, or are you pretty satisfied with the way things played out?
- [109:52]
Ron Griffiths
Well, looking back at the overall picture, I'm just glad the way turned out, if you like. You know, I obviously am disappointed that the three boys aren't with us any longer. That's the one thing I wish to God hadn't happened, and that's the. The bit that spoils it. But in general, I'm just pleased the way things have panned out. I'm glad I was part of it. I'm glad I got some happy memories. I'm glad I got that award recently. So, you know, all in all, I'm just glad to be here and I'm happy with my lot.
- [110:19]
Interviewer
It's got to be a pretty amazing thing to think of recordings made when you were a teenager and a little bit older than that, of you having fun with your friends, making music and doing whatever you thought you were doing in that moment. That here it is, 50, 60 years later, it's out there in the world and people can experience it and share it and know who Ron Griffiths is. What an amazing legacy. That's gotta be something you couldn't even wrap your head around back in the day.
- [110:47]
Ron Griffiths
No, it's absolutely true. It still amazes me. I mean, I get letters and emails from people to this day. It comes across to me as if it only happened yesterday. It is an amazing feeling. I hate using cliches, but very often I'm gobsmacked that people are so enamored with it, you know, like this interview. No, I'm amazed and glad that you've taken the trouble to interview me, but can this be happening all these years later?
- [111:12]
Interviewer
Yes, it can. Because I think for a lot of years you were a name on a record sleeve and people didn't really know much about you. And the story with Badfinger is becoming more and more visible and out there in the Discord chorus In the last 20 years, I think it was a big, huge thing. I don't know if you watched the show Breaking Bad, but when they used Baby blue in the finale, that was a huge turbo rocket lift of Bad finger awareness for a band that didn't get all the good luck it should have, but has this amazing body of work. And oh, look, there's the Ivies. There's this whole prequel to it, if you will, with Ron Griffiths and all these great songs and the story and being around the Beatles and Apple. So it's a mind blowing thing that I'm glad that you're getting to experience it in a way the other three didn't. And that for us who came along later and new fans that are being made every day that are discovering bad for the first time, that there's this great history for them to explore and this great legacy of music. So well done.
- [112:14]
Ron Griffiths
That's wonderful. Yes, I did catch Breaking Bad. It was a compulsive watch. You had to watch it from start. Oh, yes, like a lot of things. But that, that was an amazing watch. Yeah.
- [112:25]
Interviewer
And I'm sure you guys didn't see it coming. You didn't know that was going to happen.
- [112:28]
Ron Griffiths
No. The other lads would be amazed the way things have panned out. At least poor Joey got to see some of the legacy, if you like Pete and Tommy, I'm afraid they just didn't get the chance. Too young.
- [112:39]
Interviewer
Yeah, right. Way too young.
- [112:41]
Robert Rodriguez (Host)
Absolutely.
- [112:42]
Interviewer
Well, you seem to have handled this history with a great deal of grace and perspective and it seems like all the good stuff is sticking with you and it's something you carry forward today. So even if you don't write that book, I hope that people hear this conversation and other ones you've done and maybe the door is not closed to you going out and doing public speaking on this stuff because I know there's an interest and you tell it well, you present it well, and I think it's something that people really enjoy.
- [113:11]
Ron Griffiths
Well, that's very flattering to hear. It's been a pleasure to speak with you, Robert.
- [113:15]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
It's been a long time coming Guess I've been unkind New and Jeep the writings on the wall New and Jeep I love you, you're my own Guess that's your home.
- [113:43]
Interviewer
Something about the Beatles created and hosted by Robert Rodriguez executive producer Rick Way. Title song performed by the Corgis Something about the Beatles is an evergreen podcast.
- [114:06]
Ron Griffiths
Well, ladies and gentlemen, in case you didn't know, Jimmy and the boys won in a big American magazine called Billboard, the the group of the Year. And they're going to sing for you now the song that absolutely made them in this country. And I love to hear them sing it. Hey, Jo.
- [114:28]
Song Lyrics / Singing Voice
Sam.
- [114:57]
Interviewer
Well, I just stop playing this rubbish.
- [114:58]
Ron Griffiths
And dedicate a song to the Cream. Regardless of what kind of group they might be in. We like to dedicate to Eric Clapton, Ginger Baker and Jack Bruce.