319: Beatles Olympiad Abbey Road

Summary

Something About the Beatles – Episode 319: Beatles Olympiad – Abbey Road

Podcast: Something About the Beatles
Date: January 28, 2026
Host: Robert Rodriguez
Guest Co-Host: Gary Wenstrup

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Episode Overview

This episode is part of Robert Rodriguez’s ongoing “Olympiad” series with Gary Wenstrup, where the two enthusiasts evaluate Beatles albums using an imaginative Olympic medal system. The focus is 1969’s Abbey Road, the final Beatles album recorded as a group. The discussion is rich, mixing technical analysis of production with personal anecdotes and Beatles lore, all delivered in a witty, informal tone. Both hosts detail the record’s context, dissect its unique, polished sound, and ultimately bestow “bronze,” “silver,” and “gold” picks—sometimes for whole songs, sometimes for singular moments within them.

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Main Themes and Purpose

• A deep-dive into Abbey Road: its creation, technical innovations, group dynamics, individual song analysis, and lasting legacy.
• Playful, yet earnest, debate about the album’s stand-out moments—best, most moving, most iconic—using the format of Olympic medal rankings.
• Examination of Paul McCartney’s evolving songwriting, John and George’s contributions, and the role of producer George Martin.
• Reflection on how Abbey Road sounds and feels different from other Beatles albums, both then and now.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Abbey Road’s Context

• Project Origins:

  • The album followed the abandoned Glyn Johns' Get Back sessions. Abbey Road became a pivot after those more “live” efforts faltered.
  • Recording began in February 1969, paused, then resumed in July—famously with John Lennon absent early on due to a car accident.
  • The recording sessions ended just days before the final group photoshoot at Tittenhurst, moments before the band's effective dissolution.

• “Although, depending on who you ask, they didn’t know it was going to be their last album.” – Rodriguez [04:06]

• Release Chronology:

  • Abbey Road is often thought of as their last album, though Let It Be was released later. The hosts discuss the importance of covering the albums in their chronological development as a band.

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2. Abbey Road’s Unique Sonic Character

• Praise for Engineering and Production:

  • "It sounds different from every other Beatles album. It’s got a very different sound... It’s almost distractingly good how it sounds. It’s just very, very slick..." – Rodriguez [08:46]
  • Gary calls it "clean, crisp, even, balanced. You don’t hear the rough edges that you hear in the White Album and Let It Be..." [10:00]

• Technical Advances:

  • Adoption of the transistor mixing board replaced the older tube-based systems, marking a pivotal transition in Beatles recordings and setting a new industry standard. [12:42]
  • The mixing and mastering yield details rarely heard on previous Beatles records, highlighting especially bass and drum presence.

• Comparisons and Critique:

  • Rodriguez sometimes finds its slickness “almost non-human” and likens it to “a Steely Dan album.” Prefers more “rough-edged” productions—like London Calling or Physical Graffiti—believing they better project personality. [10:56–11:43]
  • Wenstrup embraces this evolution, suggesting the polish is refreshing and innovative for the period.

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3. The Medley: Pop Masterpiece or Overwrought?

• Defining the Medley:

  • The Side Two medley’s start point is debated between “You Never Give Me Your Money” and “Sun King”/"Mean Mr. Mustard." Both argue it’s a monumental, fireworks-like finale—distinct in the entire Beatles catalogue. [17:11–18:41]
  • George Martin’s influence is celebrated; his desire to create a “symphonic or classical” work on the album led to the medley’s shape.

• John Lennon’s Shifting Attitude:

  • Early on, John was enthusiastic, referencing it in Melody Maker interviews. Later, in post-Beatles interviews, he disparaged it as "junk," possibly to counter Paul’s evident leadership. [20:29–22:56]

• The Medley as Solution:

  • The medley provided a home for uncompleted song fragments—"a good way of getting rid of bits of songs we’d had for years." Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, and even Ringo contributed spontaneous segments. [21:47]
  • Practical motivations (finishing the album with limited new material) meet artistic innovation.

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4. Olympic Medal Rankings: Songs and Moments

Gary Wenstrup’s Approach

• Declares the entire medley as gold, silver, and bronze—then singles out moments inside the medley as his top picks. [17:43]
• Memorable Quote:
  "To me, it is the grand finale of a fireworks display. It just keeps coming at you — a barrage of interesting, inviting, inciting, exciting sounds and emotions." – Wenstrup [18:41]

Medal Moments Chosen by Gary

• Bronze: Ringo’s 16-second drum solo (from “The End”)
  “He may move around a little bit, but it’s the beat that’s paramount. And he comes back...” – Wenstrup [30:01]
  Notable Quote:
  “I have favorite songs. That says it all. That’s Ringo in a nutshell. It’s all about the songs. It’s not about showing off my drum skills.” [30:53]
• Silver: Paul’s “One Sweet Dream” segment in “You Never Give Me Your Money.”
  Symbolizes freedom and hope; Gary jokes he used to interpret it as a bank robbery. [46:03]
• Gold: Paul’s vocal moment, “Once there was a way to get back homeward,” from “Golden Slumbers.”
  “It just tugs at my heart. It’s the melancholy pull of nostalgia, the comfort of the past that he communicates so cleanly, so simply in just these two lines…” – Wenstrup [67:46]

Robert Rodriguez’s Medals

• Bronze: “I Want You (She’s So Heavy)”
  Praised for its groove, tight musicianship, hypnotic structure, and dramatic abrupt ending.
  “That whole track is about groove… a great latter day example of them as musicians listening closely to each other.” – Rodriguez [36:53]
• Silver: “You Never Give Me Your Money” (as a standalone, not just part of the medley)
  Strong for its musical invention, vocal harmonies, and the blending of musical moods. [49:45]
• Gold: “Because”
  Highlights the layered vocals of John, Paul, and George, the novel harmony construction, and the power of simplicity in lyrics and music.
  “Anytime you get all three of those guys singing together... this is so much power.” – Rodriguez [78:59]

Other Song & Moment Observations

• Sun King: Noted for its “Mediterranean guitar arpeggios” and as a nod to Fleetwood Mac’s “Albatross.”
• Maxwell’s Silver Hammer: Debated, both hosts examining its divisive legacy and Paul’s intent.
  *"I think it's commendable he was doing something dark and sort of framing it as a happy-go-lucky sing-along." – Rodriguez [50:46]
• Octopus’s Garden: Elevated by George’s contributions; referenced as Ringo’s “cosmic” subconscious songwriting.
• Here Comes the Sun: Now the most-streamed Beatles song, praised for Ringo's inventive drumming and “elegant engineering.”
  "There’s nothing not to love about that.” – Rodriguez [77:30]
• Come Together & Something: Both given respect for their performances, though “Come Together” is regarded as a “great recording more than a great song.”
  George’s bridge on “Something” singled out as both hosts’ favorite moment: “They’re harmonies and they’re just almost dueling... this magnificent, wonderful moment.” – Rodriguez [72:00]

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• On Abbey Road’s Sound:
  “It sounds almost like a George Martin project, almost more than a Beatle album to me.” – Rodriguez [11:43]
  “It’s clean, it’s crisp, it’s even, it’s balanced. You don’t hear the rough edges that you hear in the White Album and in Let It Be.” – Wenstrup [10:00]

• On the Medley:
  “It is the grand finale of a fireworks display... It just keeps coming at you. It’s big and overwhelming.” – Wenstrup [18:41] “There’s a quote from John talking excitedly about what they’re doing, taking these bits of songs and stringing them together and making this suite out of it... Then come the breakup and come the Lennon Remembers, [he] puts it down.” – Rodriguez [20:29]

• On Ringo’s Drumming:
  “That’s Ringo in a nutshell. It’s all about the songs. It’s not about showing off my drum skills.” – Wenstrup [31:00]

• On “I Want You (She’s So Heavy):”
  “You’ve got the Beatles in full support doing what they do best. And the dramatic cutoff ending... it’s a cool track.” – Rodriguez [36:53]

• On George’s “Something”:
  “They’re harmonies and they’re just almost dueling where they go a little bit out of sync with each other on the ‘I don’t know’... this magnificent, wonderful moment.” – Rodriguez [72:00] “I love that moment. I was thinking about it last night. I wonder if George would have pushed his voice so much without Paul.” – Wenstrup [72:24]

• On “Because”:
  “It doesn’t sound like any other Beatles song... Lyrically, it’s saying a lot with a little… there’s so much power.” – Rodriguez [78:59]

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Insightful Moments & Anecdotes

• Rodriguez shares he wore an Abbey Road T-shirt as a teen in the '70s, scoring a girlfriend because she was also “uncool” enough to like the Beatles. [08:22]
• Both discuss how different recording studios (London, New York, LA, Nashville) affected the Beatles’ and other bands’ sounds, referencing Brian Wilson’s “Good Vibrations” and Simon & Garfunkel. [13:13–14:22]
• Speculation around Paul’s lyrics and intent, often playful (Gary imagines “one sweet dream” is a bank robbery), but underscored by serious emotional interpretation about leaving youth behind. [45:38–46:58]
• Discussion about the evocative “home” theme in Paul’s writing—how it recurs in Abbey Road and reflects his real-life search for belonging amid band tensions. [67:46–68:33]

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Other Highlights

• The hosts occasionally reference their “Classic Rock Album Olympics” spin-off, where they give medals to non-Beatles albums in a similar style. [05:15]
• They underline the “Beatles magic” as being in the group chemistry—how even lesser Paul or Ringo songs are often “elevated” by George’s or John’s involvement (e.g., “Octopus’s Garden”).
• There’s a brief but interesting aside about Beatles songs most covered by other artists—Paul’s dominate, with George’s “Something” a rare exception among Lennon-McCartney heavyweights. [92:05]
• “Her Majesty,” the surprise album closer, is discussed as a happy accident—a hidden track that ends the record with Beatles irreverence and deflating grandeur. [83:39–87:51]
• Abbey Road’s legacy: both in its day and now, it stands as a unique, polished outlier but continues to be celebrated as an achievement—sometimes beloved for its shine, sometimes critiqued for it.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Abbey Road’s Recording Context: [02:22–05:11]
• The Sonic Leap / Production: [08:46–13:52]
• Olympic Medals Format Explained: [16:33–18:51]
• Debating the Medley’s Genius: [18:51–27:49]
• Top Medley Moments Chosen: [27:49–36:53]
• Song-by-song Individual Analysis (“I Want You,” “Because,” etc.): [36:53–54:41]
• Debates on Maxwell’s Silver Hammer: [54:41–61:14]
• Paul’s “Home” Theme: [67:46–69:05]
• The Value of Group Harmony – “Because” and “Something”: [78:59–74:41]
• Legacy & Most-covered Beatles Songs: [91:26–94:46]
• Final Recap of Medal Picks: [88:09–88:45]

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Final Medals Recap

Gary Wenstrup

• Bronze: Ringo’s drum solo (“The End”) [31:30]
• Silver: "One Sweet Dream" seg. from “You Never Give Me Your Money” [46:03]
• Gold: Paul singing “Once there was a way to get back homeward” (“Golden Slumbers”) [67:46]

Robert Rodriguez

• Bronze: “I Want You (She’s So Heavy)” [36:53]
• Silver: "You Never Give Me Your Money" [49:45]
• Gold: “Because” [78:59]

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Memorable Closing Thoughts

• “Probably enjoyed Abbey Road as an album more when I was younger than I do now, which is not to detract from it—it’s just my tastes… Slick is less attractive to me.” – Rodriguez [88:45]
• “To me, it’s irreverent. It’s quintessential Beatles humor. And I love that [Her Majesty] exists.” – Wenstrup [83:45]

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For Beatles fans, musicians, and audio nerds alike, Abbey Road is dissected here not just by hit songs but by quirks, craftsmanship, and those little ‘Olympic’ moments that make the Beatles, well, The Beatles.**

Transcript

[Robert Rodriguez]

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[Gary Wenstrup]

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[Robert Rodriguez]

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[Music Producer/Engineer]

Perhaps you like to tell us something about the track before I come together. Yeah, well, it was one of those tracks where we didn't know which way to do it at first. You know, we tried several ways and then like all our tracks, you know, we, we try them and it didn't seem to work until we found this formula for it. It's like broken up because there's no, there's nothing going on steady all the way through. You know, there's no playing the same thing all the way through. We break it or I break it with the drum, then it's a cymbal and then, you know, bits like that. And we found that was the best way to do it. I don't know if you understand what I'm saying. Here it is now and let me get off.

[Robert Rodriguez]

This episode of Something about the Beatles podcast is sponsored by Distrokid listeners going to distrokid.com VIP SATB can get 30% off their annual membership. Welcome to this episode of Something about the Beatles. This is a return to the Olympiad series with Gary Wenstrup that we last Left off in 2025 spring, I think it was with a discussion of the Glenn John's Get Back album, the album that never was in summer of 69, at least spring, summer that they originally had pencil it in for. Before then Pivoting and going to work on Abbey Road, which they really had started work on, rolling straight out of the Get Back sessions in February. And then they took a pause at one point and resumed it beginning of July, right. For John had had his car accident, so it was the threedles, the early primordial threadles, working without John until he joined the sessions just in time for Maxwell's Silver Hammer. And on they went until the end of the sessions, with the end on August 20th, I believe. And then two days later they did the final photo shoot at Tittenhurst as a group. So things were winding down really fast. Although, depending on who you ask, they didn't know it was going to be their last album. At that famous tape meeting, there was a proposal for the next Beatle album and the division of labor going forward. But of course that didn't end up happening and John went to Toronto. It was that. So I'm glad that we did it the way we did. We had done the White album and then we. The sort of bridge album in between. Because I'm a lot more comfortable with doing things sort of chronologically as the band develops. And we had talked amongst ourselves where we go from here. Well, this is the last Beatle album. What are you going to do now? Well, I think there's still room to do the Phil Spector production of the Let It Be album because it is a different animal than Nicolin John's one, which didn't come out, by the way, till decades later as part of that deluxe set. And maybe there'll be some surprises along the way to cover other sort of stray material. But I guess you'll just have to tune in when that happens. And for people who aren't aware or don't get the newsletter, and if you don't get the newsletter, you should be getting the newsletter, say TB2010mail to sign up for the weekly Monday blast, as it were. There is the spin off podcast. We've got classic rock album Olympics. And just as with sat be something about the Beatles, there is this. This impulse to abbreviate that it abbreviates to C R A O, right? Which I can never look at without thinking, crap, sometimes there's an O instead.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Of a P. But I really wish I. I really that I wish I.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Could unsee it every time. Anyway, available on Spotify everywhere else you get your podcast where it's Gary and I doing our Olympic shtick for everything non Beatles and Beatles too. If we are of a mind too like we do with Pepper. But you'll hear us discussing everything from the Birds to Stevie Wonder to Joni Mitchell to Paul Simon to whoever. We just did a Hendrix show and we've got other stuff in the can. We are taking in your suggestions for albums that fit the broad definition of classic rock album done. Steely Dan and we got Supertramp coming up and all kinds of stuff. So anyway, that's if you like this sort of format where we pick a gold, silver and bronze track off these albums, then maybe that's the show for you. But do check it out.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Thank you. And I'll do a quick plug for your newsletter. I'm a reader and there's so much information in it and what I enjoy in particular, I enjoy the information. But Robert includes links to things on YouTube or things in his collection that are rare and it's great to have access to it. So I give a big thumbs up letter.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Thank you. Maybe we'll do a Olympic medal thing for specific issues one day Olympics. Some are, are definitely more content rich than others depending on what's going on in the news or whatever. But people told me that they like that I curate stuff that they might not know where to start to track down or they. They just learn things like the recent one talking about the. The death of Bob Weir of the Grateful Dead and there are people reaching out to me had no idea that Lind McCartney had a connection to them as Linda Eastman. There was a wonderful interview segment in there from Bob Weir describing his impressions of Linda, which I thought was kind of sweet. But anyway, so that's all that. So that business out of the way. We are now taking on Abbey Road, the last Beatles recording project as a group prior to all the posthumous stuff. So I don't know about you, but when I was getting into the beatles in the 70s with my gateway drugs of the Red and Blue albums and then I started buying specific albums, I wasn't doing it chronologically because unlike first gen fans you didn't have to. You could pick them up wherever your interest lied. And I think Pepper was my first non compilation album. And Abbey Road probably was in the top three in terms of order of me picking them up. And I think the early Capital stuff was the last stuff I picked up as individual album like early Beatles and Beatles 65 and all that stuff. But in any event Abbey Road was this sort of monolithic for like achievement in my mindset and I think the public's mindset so iconic. I had an Abbey Road album cover shirt that ended up getting me My first girlfriend back in the day, because she was a Beatle fan too. And, you know, as we've talked about before, it was. There was nothing less cool than being a Beatle fan at that period of history.

[Gary Wenstrup]

So does that mean your girlfriend was very uncool as well? Yeah, right.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But my friends have always been typically the people who have no friends, so it worked out. Not that we're all outcasts, per se, but. What's that? There's a great Boston Blackie line. Enemy of those who make them. An enemy friend to those who have no friends. That was me. I was Boston Blackie.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Just, you know, if you're not into old time radio, you wouldn't know what I'm talking about. But anyway, so it was this big, massive achievement. And sure enough, you listen to it, it sounds different from every other Beatles album. It's got very different sound. And as I matured in, my discerning of music evolves. It's funny to me that on the one hand you kind of wish all their albums sounded that good, but on the other hand, at least to me, it's almost distractingly good how it sounds. It's just very, very slick to me. And I do remember when Mobile Fidelity started. The very first album they put out was Abbey Road. And I snapped it up and it was almost like listening to a run of the mill Steely Dan album. How incredibly engineered and precise everything sounded. The enormous amount of clarity. And that's before any kind of remixing. It was just remastered, you know, but that was a thing back then. And then they ended up putting out the rest of the Beatles catalog and other stuff as well. So it always had that standout aspect to me, where it almost didn't sound like a Beatle album, if that makes sense to you. It sounded like it was recorded yesterday.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I completely agree. It's clean, it's crisp, it's even, it's balanced. You don't hear the rough edges that you hear in the White Album and in Let It Be. And for me, the drums and bass become so much more present than any of their earlier recordings. So I love it. But I get the impression it rubbed you a little bit the wrong way.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Not when I was young, but more so now. And it's like I. I have to sort of take off my critical listening hat when I listen to it, to just enjoy the music and the performances. Because as much as I love Steely Dan and I do, there's a lot of great musicianship and great song craft going on there. I have sort of the same issue. And I would say there's, you know, plenty of what is termed yacht rock, like Boss Gags, the big album that everybody loves.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Silk Decree.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Huh. Things like that that are. Are sort of a monument to production as much as they are what the artist has to say. A lot of stuff that Alan Parsons touches besides his own project, you know, Year of the Cat by Al Stewart, that you get the idea of what I'm talking about, where it's all kind of non rock and roll. I like the rough edges generally. And you get that with other groups that I listen to, like London Calling or Physical Graffiti or things like that, where there's all the stray bits that project personality. And to me, when I listen to Abbey Road now, part of me thinks this sounds very much like a George Martin project, almost more than a Beatle album to me. Is that too missing the point in my impression?

[Gary Wenstrup]

No, I mean, you know, what sound and feel appeals to you? And this just doesn't hit that spot.

[Robert Rodriguez]

As you point out. The drums and the bass sound tremendous on this album. Everything sounds great.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But it's almost. To me, it's almost distractingly so. Almost like they're not human beings on this album.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Wow. You know, again, we all have our own tastes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. All this is a reflection of this is not me making the statement people shouldn't. Like Abby Rhodes. No, not that at all. Not that at all. But a lot of what I don't like about contemporary music is sort of the same value, that there's not a stray hair out of place or they go to all auto tune far too much. You know, just ridiculous production touches that apparently there must be a market for. Cause this shit sells by the millions. So what do I know?

[Gary Wenstrup]

Let me ask you a question. And as I recall, and I think Ken Womack did his book about the making of Heavy Road and there's new technology involved.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. It went to transistor board rather than tube.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Right. And that made all the difference, I suspect. And then that becomes the way the standard that people record.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. But then you listen to albums made in the 70s, following this breakthrough in technology, and they're still wildly all over the place. Just to use McCartney examples. Ram recorded at CBS in New York. Sounds drastically different from band on run versus McCartney. Wong.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Versus Red Rose recorded at EMI, versus Venus and Mars recorded in New Orleans. It's like using different studios really make that much of a difference? Apparently it does. And we know the White Album, a lot of it is recorded at Trident Right. But still, there's a homogeny, I think, to the sound of that album, that you don't get the sense, oh, yeah, this is an EMI track. Oh, this is a Trident track.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, that's true. Well, to your point about studios getting different sounds, Brian Wilson, certainly that. I think Good Vibrations was recorded at three or four different studios because he wanted different sounds for each segment. So, you know, good observation was.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I'm presuming the bulk, if not all of Simon Garfunkel's work was recorded to CBS studios in New York.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I think some of it was recorded. I think quite a bit of it was recorded in la. Really? Where? I don't know. I'm sorry, I don't know that stuff. But if memory serves, some of it is recorded in la. I could be wrong.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It would make sense if they were there, like working on the Graduate or Arty's Making Movies or whatever, but I'm not aware of that. I just know that Roy Halle seemed to be the constant.

[Gary Wenstrup]

No, you're absolutely right about that.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Uhhuh.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I'd have to check.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Maybe the Boxer was recorded in Nashville.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Why do you boxer Nashville? I don't get it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

The guy Carter that plays on it. You know what I'm talking about?

[Gary Wenstrup]

No, Go, go, go, go.

[Robert Rodriguez]

He was a Nashville guy that. His daughter Deanna Carter was a country singer later on.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, Dina Carter. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. I don't know if they took him to New York or LA or whatever, or. They went to Nashville for the one track. Because that track was a single a year before Bridge came out as an album.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Right, exactly. They had recorded it before Artie goes off to make a move. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Music Producer/Engineer]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But we digress.

[Gary Wenstrup]

We did. That's really an interesting insight. We both agree it's got a different sound to it, and I'm quite pleased with. With the new sound, where to you, it sort of sends music in a direction that's too polished. And I just find that really interesting that it strikes you that way.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think it just sounds like it's not Beatles as, you know, Beatles. It's almost like a different band or a different project or something. Something sounds drastically different and we know that.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

George Martin was back holding the reins for this one. And his contributions are manifest as they were when he was allowed to do his thing. Anyway, I'm making this all sound like it's a negative. To me, it's just different. I shouldn't frame it as negative. Although it's not specifically to my taste, which tend to be more Rough edge. But I can enjoy the music, enjoy the performances and the compositions on a track by track basis. But it just, it's almost a little jarring. But I would say Pepper's jarring between the White Album and Mystery Tour and Revolver, its production is very different sounding too. But that, the entire presentation and everything about that different. That really is a one off project. It's not the latest Beatle album. It's a special Beatle special. Yeah, right, right. It's almost like a stage show, really.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. And intended as a stage show. Right. They're not playing live anymore.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Touring. Yeah, exactly.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Right.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So there you go. All right, so let's jump right into it. And we have very different approaches to our ranking of medals for this. And that's perfectly fine. But maybe you want to explain your reasoning. Lead with your bronze right now.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Right. So prior to recording this, Robert and I had conversations about how do you. What do you do with the medley if you feel that's going to be one of your medal winners? Does that just count for one medal or does it cover everything? Because the medley is almost 17 minutes long, which is what, roughly four or five Beatles songs at their average length.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Where do you start the medley? Because I think that's something that depends on the ear of the beholder.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. I always started with you never give me your money. What about you?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, I had for years until hearing from people or the prevailing sort of consensus became no, it starts with, I've.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Heard that as well. And what's remarkable about you never giving your money, that's a medley in and.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Of itself, very much in the future direction of McCartney or looking back to Happiness and Warm Gun.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Exactly. There's four different segments just to the lead off track of the medley. So there's a lot going on. So back to Robert and my conversation. I landed on what I was comfortable doing. For me, the medley is an incredible work. Piece of work. And I think it's so good that I'm throwing all my medals at it. It is my bronze, it is my silver, and it is my gold. But I would like to share what I consider my bronze, silver and gold moments from the medley. Okay. All right. And I think Robert's on board with that. Robert's pretty good with the flow and these sort of things. So I think you're on board with that. Right. Feels all right to you.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So this is sort of a meta thing where you're actually giving metals to bits of songs rather than songs, at least initially. Right. Is that what I'm hearing?

[Gary Wenstrup]

Absolutely true. It's moments in song. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Boy, if we could go back to this entire series and just do medals for moments, that'd be very different series of shows, wouldn't it?

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes. And we'd probably start doing it now and do it on our deathbeds. There would be so many moments. But just a little bit more talk about the medley, if you don't mind. It really is so unique piece of work and I liken it to. And maybe I'm getting a little over the top here to a fireworks display. You know, you hear come together, boom. That sounds nice. Look how beautiful. That is something. Oh, that's nice too. I like that. Maxwell Silverhammer. Oh, that's kind of a dude. But, you know, then here comes the sun. Oh, I like that too. And then when you come to the medley, to me it is the grand finale of a fireworks display. It just keeps coming at you. It's a barrage of interesting, inviting, inciting, exciting sounds and emotions. It just keeps coming at you. It's big and overwhelming. And that's why I'm going to throw all my medals at it right from the get go. And you mentioned George Martin. Sort of his fingerprints all over this and this, as we understand it was George Martin's idea that he wanted to do something more symphonic or classical on this album. And based on what I've read, you'll of course correct me. You know, explained that idea to Paul. Paul thought it was a cool idea too, and explained it to John. And then I hear mixed things. I hear initially John sort of liked the idea. And during the recording of it, he was on board with it. And it's only after the Beatles break up and Lennon remembers that he disparages it. What's your understanding of his feelings?

[Robert Rodriguez]

That's exactly right. There's like in the spring of 69 when it's just getting mapped out. Enemy or Melody Maker? I forget which one. There's a quote from John talking excitedly about what they're doing, taking these bits of songs and stringing them together and making this sweet out of it. Come to breakup and come to. Certainly the Lena remembers where it's sort of implicit that he sees George Martin as Paul's guy. And that's where, you know, just play me some George Martin music. What has he done? Kind of thing. And he didn't really produce the White Album and just going on slapping around at every turn. And of course, anything that was a high achievement that was sort of driven by Paul. Whether it's Yesterday or sergeant Pepper or The Abbey Road medley, John necessarily has to put it down, so that's the pattern. What do you think of Abbey Road?

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

I liked the A side. I never liked that sort of whatever pop opera on the other side, I.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Think it's junk, so I could see as part of that. But going forward, especially, say, during the Lost Weekend period, it would have been interesting to ask what he thought of it, looking back. And then when he was referring to himself as I'm a Beatle fan too, if he looked back at it fondly because, you know, he has fairly equal weight in it.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

The medley comes next on the lp, and this is really a sort of a whole piece of music joint. I mean, repetitive phrases come back all the way through it. Yeah. It was also a good way of getting rid of bits of songs we'd had for years, you know. So this is, again, was a collective piece of songwriting, but it wasn't any. Yeah, I mean, George and Ringdor, in fact, wrote bits of it as we did it. You know, literally, you know, sort of in between bits and breaks into it. Paul would say, we've got 12 bars here, let's fill it in. And we'd fill it in on the spot. A couple of the songs also linked together. I mean, some of the characters. Oh, yeah. Well, I was just luck, you know. I mean, my contribution to it is Polythene, Pam and Sun King and me and Mr. Mustard. So we just juggled them about till it made vague sense. I mean, Mr. Mustard. I said his sister Pam and originally he said his sister Shirley in the lyrics. So I'll change it to Pam and make it sound like he had something to do with it. Well, as we get into this, this is a sort of another scene with Paul and this piano. Yes. First part was this. Paul on piano. Oh, he's always on piano. You can't get him off.

[Robert Rodriguez]

That was another thing you said, you never give me your money. I can remember as a kid thinking it started with mean Mr. Mustard. But in any event, originally the original design was alternating John and Paul songs as you. So Her Majesty was slipped in there. We've all heard it now as part of the Abbey Road package. It just doesn't work. It just brings things to a dead halt. So it's better to have the two John songs, mean Mr. Mustard into Palatine Pam. They just fit together so much nicely as the way we've heard it all these years. But anyway, so, yeah, I think that's how his attitude shifted. It was more a political thing than really what he might have Thought of the music. Although you read the latter day post Beatles interviews where he's putting down a lot of his own music, like stuff that we love, you know, whether it's Andrew Bird can sing or whatever and another piece of garbage or means nothing. A piece of nothing, whatever. He's so hypercritical that the song doesn't have a direct significant meaning or personal meaning that it's therefore worthless. It's just craftsmanship which he uses as an insult. So I don't know if he really felt that way. If he played him the music and the recording again, he can listen to how joyous it sounds, how beautifully they're playing and singing together. If he'd really. Would you really call this a piece of crap, John? You don't put a whole lot of stock in what he has to say.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, and what a shame we don't have an in depth interview during the period that you're mentioning, that 74 period. It could have been a whole different point of view about everything Beatles related.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, I think back at that one that he did in early 75, just before the whole 5 year old walking away happened. And he's talking, he's very bullish on the Beatles. If we want to get back together, I'd be happy as Larry do Hey Jude, help do the whole thing. He's speaking very much like an enthusiastic Beatle fan. It's like offense to John. We could have preserved how much happier.

[Gary Wenstrup]

All our lives would have been in the time machine.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, yeah.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Back to the medley and George Martin's intent. He wants it to be a classical sort of piece with dynamic rises and falls in the music, recurring musical motifs which happens. You never give your money. Shows up in you're going to carry that weight. Interesting key changes and song transitions. And it excels at doing all of this thing.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You ever think about it in the context of music when you've got late 66, Kit Lambert and Chris Stamp approaching Pete Townshend to finish off the Quick One album. You've got these songs laying around. Why don't you do a little mini suite? And so they do a Quick one, which was honed to perform perfection by the time of Rock and Roll Circus in December 68. So two years in, they've been performing it live on stage. And it's just a masterwork. A series of songs crafting an overall arc. And then that leads to Tommy very much using a series of motifs told throughout the course of the two records. You know, that see me, feel me popping up time again. The sparks Underture theme coming up, things like that. And again, he'll revisit it four years after Abbey Road with Quadrophenia. So I don't know if George Martin actually sat down and ever listened to this stuff or if he was just aware of it in terms of his knowledge of classical music. But certainly by the time the Beatles threw their hat into that particular ring, it was already done by other people, at least, similar sort of things. Now, if you look at it in pragmatic terms, they want to get this album out. And earlier in the year when they're working on Let It Be, it's evident that John is struggling to come up with new material. And it's like, should we revisit one after 909? Should we revisit across the universe just to get up to his quota of tunes he's not really delivering? And then some of the stuff, like me, Mr. Mustard gets thrown on the table at Twickenham as something composed in India that didn't really have a home. And it was, as we know from listening to their January 69 workouts, it had a bridge. It was a different animal musically. But if somebody is trying to kill two birds of getting enough material together to finish this album and taking these unloved, unwanted, finished songs that are just laying around and doing something with them, it seems to serve that purpose in practical, pragmatic terms as well as. Well, maybe people look at this as an artistic statement. We're innovating here. We're doing a suite on side to this album. It seemed to be the thing to do under those conditions, but had they all had fully realized tunes at that point to contribute to a solid album, maybe that's a direction it would have gone too.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, good point. Quite possible. So with that in mind, why don't I start with my brawn?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Go ahead.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Okay. So again, all my metals are going at the medley, and I'm gonna pick my bronze, silver and gold moment within the medley. And my bronze contenders are these. The dramatic strohm that start Polythene Pam, which actually, to your point, is pretty sound alike to what Townsend does on Pinball wizard. And Townshend got there first. The Beatles certainly amplify it, deepen it. Is that your feeling as well, that there's a bit of a nick there?

[Robert Rodriguez]

I never heard it that way. Townsend certainly was a pretty singular strummer in terms of, you know. Yeah, and it's not quite on that level, but on the other hand, you could look at it as maybe sort of a throwback to Skiffle. When you get to hear the Let It Be album, eventually, Maggie May is sort of cut from that same cloth. And I always. Ultimately, to your point, whatever way you want to analyze it aside, I always love that dramatic flourish of a guitar opening that, especially coming after me and Mr. Mustard. It's just a nice changing, you know, going to the next chapter of the suite. And it fits, it meshes beautifully.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Agreed. All right, so that's one of the contenders, those guitar strums. Another contender for me are the gentle. And here I'm a little out of my league, but I'm going there anyway. What I hear is Mediterranean guitar arpeggios that are at the beginning of Sun King. It's a beautiful, gentle, great sound. Sun King. There's not a lot going on. Once the melody starts or the singing starts, I don't really care anymore. But those gentle guitar bits prior to the singing, I love. And then my third contender for the bronze is Ringo's drum solo. So my winner for the bronze is Ringo's drum solo. And as your listeners know, because you're smart, John, Paul and George had done their guitar solos, and they want Ringo to do his moment in the sun. Ringo resists it, but ultimately he goes ahead with the solo. The solo's 16 seconds long and he recorded seven of them. And in typical Ringo style, each of the seven is different than the other one. The reason I pick it is it's a great moment. Once you hear it, you can't forget it. There's two other things that I think are notable about it from a drumming standpoint. And you're a drummer, I'm not. So you'll have to give me your point of view on this. He kind of roams the kit in his playing, but he always returns to the bass drum. It's always there. The beat is always there. If he strays, he comes right back to it. And is that Ringo or what? You know, everything is. You gotta get the beat right. And this solo, to my ears, is his playing in a nutshell. He may move around a little bit, but it's the beat that's paramount. And he comes back the sort of side note to that. There's an interview with Ringo that I haven't. That I was on YouTube for a while and it's disappeared and I haven't seen it. But he's asked a question I've never heard anybody else ask him, and that's, who are your favorite drummers? And I'm sort of expecting a Gene Krupa or something. And Henriko says, well, I don't have favorite drummers. I have favorite songs. That says it all. That's Ringo in a nutshell. It's all about the songs. It's not about showing off my drum skills. So I pick as my bronze Ringo's drum solo. And what about you? Of the three moments I named, what would you have picked as the bronze?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, between those three choices. Yeah, probably Sun King, because I think something's got to come in third between the three. That's a song that. Do you remember the first time you heard Albatross by Fleetwood Mac?

[Gary Wenstrup]

Absolutely.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So did you immediately think Sun King?

[Gary Wenstrup]

No, I didn't, but I know I did. Okay, so you heard it right away.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Not right away. I heard it, like, years after Abbey Road. I would say I probably heard it circa 1980 because I remember Wax tracks in Chicago picking up a used copy of. It was on Columbia, Fleetwood Mac's Greatest Hits. And meaning the band. Their meaning of Fleetwood Mac was the Peter Green, Fleetwood Mac. So it was stuff like, oh, well and man of the World and Green Man, Alicia, Black Magic Woman, those tracks. And it's a fantastic album. But anyway, that's where I heard it for the first time. I was thinking, wow, which came first? Come to find out, Albatross was, like, the number one single in England at the time of the get back session, 1-69- obviously impacted and influenced. And years later, there would be the Beatle connections when Mick marries Jenny Boyd, Sister Patty and stuff like that. But it couldn't have escaped their ears because clearly, when you listen to the Nagras, they're discussing all kinds of hits of the day. So they had to have known it. It's a fragment that John brings in pretty early on in the sessions. It's almost like part and parcel of his lick for Don't Let Me down, playing around the D thing. So it's something that they ultimately decide this is two songs. Even though it's kind of the same sort of jamming riffing that they're playing around with. It does make for a nice track on Abbey Road. It's sort of a nod to Fleetwood Mac. It's sort of a different sound for the Beatles. And the guitar is great. If it's George purposely trying to channel Peter Green or just playing in that style, which he wasn't known for doing, that sort of bluesy. Even when George played ostensibly bluesy stuff, just like with his slide playing, it was more like a voice than doing blue scales, like, lot of his peer. So, anyway, yeah, so I only graded beneath the other two because to me it's. It's a lesser composition. Maybe, I don't know. But it's all arbitrary, isn't it?

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

That's where we would pretend to be Fleetwood Mac for a few minutes. See, we did the. The introductions. We call it the sun riff. Well, the little instrumental bit, that's like Fleetwood Mac. But before we start singing, I keep reading.

[Music Producer/Engineer]

Everyone keeps saying it's like Albatross. And it is. You know, in Albatross was great. I hope this you think this is. Was good.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Second Silver, I would give the drum solo you describe Ringo doing seven takes. I would love to hear those other takes for sure and wonder if the final one was cobbled together for multiple different approaches. But you say Ringo resisted. And he resisted till somebody sat him down and played him. Iron Butterfly, second album. I know where I can go with this. So he channels at once Ron Bushy from Iron Butterfly as he plays the extended 17 minute version of Indigada Davita. The drum solo part you could absolutely pick up, because I did as a kid, I was familiar with the Iron Butterfly album because my brother had it before I ever heard Abby Road. So my ears immediately, like, that's interesting. But then you refer to the bass drum. Constant. Yeah, Pete Best, his homage to Pete Best. And the atom beat, Born the Floor. So it's a medley of the past and the future.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Good for you to connect Iron Butterfly to this drum solo back in the day. Good for you. Good ears.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So that would leave Gold, the aforementioned acoustic guitar opening of Paladin Pan, which I always thought was a real grab.

[Gary Wenstrup]

All right, so we're throwing the outtakes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Ringo's trying to come up with a beat for this. This is the thing to say about Ringo's drum performance from start to finish on Abbey Road. The album, it's just like this groundbreaking paradigm busting thing where as he's described, and I remember reading this in Modern Drummer magazine when he sat down for an interview with Max Weinberg from the E Street Band. And that ended up being in a book, the Big Beat that Max interviewed all these drummers. And Ringo talks like for the first time that I'd ever read about drumming and not Beatle history. And he talks about, yeah, the Hollywood kit with two shell toms and the calf skin heads and how organic it made him feel that he was not beating on plastic for the first time for the Abbey Road album and how it affected his playing. Just like Paul switching from Hoffner to Rickenbacker at Rubber Soul affected his playing. Same thing with Ringo. And that's why it's so tom heavy. And so that outtake of Pal and Pam where he's trying to figure out what he does. And he does that cool beat throughout that track. There's the outtake where John says he's sounding like Dave Clark.

[Gary Wenstrup]

And I don't think that's a compliment.

[Robert Rodriguez]

No, it wasn't. As he's finding his feet on the track, which I thought was pretty funny.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. All right, so that is my bronze, Ringo's drum solo. How about you, Robert? What's your bronze?

[Robert Rodriguez]

So my bronze overall for the album is I want you. She's so heavy. I listened to the whole album before I decided to give medals out. And that one to me has always been a favorite track. I've played it with friends, like just jamming, not in public, just for fun. And it's just a fun innovative for the Beatles because they weren't jammers. And it's very tightly constructed, even though it's. What is it? Eight minutes long. And the fact that they're really grooving as musicians. And groove is the key word. That whole track is about groove. And with Billy on board doing the magnificent organ part that he does, especially in the coda. And Paul just going crazy on bass for that. And Ringo throughout playing different fields at different repeats of earlier passages. It's all different. And the hypnotic sound of that repeating guitar lick throughout doubled by George. And so for a great latter day example of them as musicians listening closely to each other. Example of Billy Preston raising their game and doing something so far removed from the tight songwriting of their early days where it's all about mood, it's all about music. It's certainly a reduction saying something heavy, pun not intended, with an economy of words. That's what John's doing there. He'd address the criticism, there's no poetry, there's no imagery there. And then he gave that example of I'd be incredibly pleased if someone had the foresight when I was drowning to come and rescue me. You know that you don't need a lot of words to say what he's trying to say there. So he's singing about Yoko, I want you. She's so heavy. And pretty much covers the subject and the music says the rest. So of all the songs influenced by Yoko or directly about Yoko, maybe that's my favorite actually, as I think about it, you've got the Beatles in full support doing what they do best. And the dramatic cutoff ending. I eventually Learned what drum part to queue off of to predict. It was like a parlor trick for me to know exactly when that song would end. When I was around other people. It's like on there. I know every time. Like, how do you know that? But anyway, it's cool track.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Great. So Yoko inspired tracks. How would you compare this to Don't Let Me Down? Just in terms of. It's another.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I knew you were gonna go there.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, you did, did ya? Well, how would you respond to that?

[Robert Rodriguez]

That's probably the best one, actually, when I think about that, because it's much more of a song, but it's up there. I was never a fan, really, of O Yoko or Dear Yoko.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Oh, yeah, okay. The one that's unimagined. I like that one a lot.

[Robert Rodriguez]

The sound of it's okay, but it.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Just, again, it needs a middle eight. It needs a bit of craftsman, a great sound.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It needs a bit of something more than fill in the blank. When I'm in the middle of this. When I'm in the middle of that.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I hear you.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. It just. It doesn't interest me on a musical level very much. To me, the most interesting thing about that track is. He returns to harmonica for the first time in years. At least it's all together now.

[Gary Wenstrup]

You make a good point about. Or we make a good point about its connection to Don't Let Me Down. Because this is almost. It's the same idea. He's just obsessed with Yoko. It's deep, it's heavy. His obsession and his addiction to her. And to my ears, this song takes it a step further than Don't Let Me Down. And you mentioned the cutoff that you like. And that's one of the challenges and I think the brilliance of the song. You've got this coda that goes on for three minutes of sort of building tension. And it's a sexual tension I would submit. And there's no resolution to it. It just stops. It just cuts right off. So it's this obsession that never finds release, it never finds fulfillment. It's hard to listen to because of that. And that three minute coda becomes hard to listen to. I love the first. I don't know, three and a half, four minutes because of the varied rhythms and the guitar solo. George. But that three minute coda, that's heavy. It wears.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think John's playing the solo actually.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Really? In the song.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. Where he's mimicking the vocal line.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

John plays lead guitar and sings the same as he plays okay.

[Gary Wenstrup]

There's a solo or two in there that I thought George played.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, I'm just talking about that specific break between the verses before the she, so.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes. Yeah. Yes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Gary Wenstrup]

All right.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Doesn't matter. But you like that part.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. One thing that I. A point I'd like to make in regards to this song. So John gave an interview with Tom Snyder, and you'll know better than me. Was that 1975 when he was on Tomorrow Show.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Okay. And he makes a point, if I'm remembering it correctly, the Beatles didn't break up because they didn't like each other. He said we broke up because of boredom, and that a result of boredom is tension. And he goes on to say it's the same three guys looking at each other in the same room playing the same lick. And to me, this song is an example of where he's wrong. That it might be the same John and the same three guys playing the same licks, but they always get something fresh and interesting out of that experience. And so I kind of get where John's coming from. But this, to me, is an example of he's wrong. They always came up with something interesting after they worked on it for a while.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, they're breaking the mold there. Not only in terms of length of her performance, but they didn't usually do long instrumental passages, which is what they're doing here. They've got Billy in the mix. They're challenging themselves. I think anytime Billy Preston walks into the room with other Beatles, they immediately have to raise their game, because this guy is not only a master musician, but he's also a master improviser, which the Beatles by nature were not. I think Paul could hold his own. And John would certainly drag out performances once he started playing live post Beatles and stuff. George is much more comfortable composing his parts. If you listen to Apple Jam. I think it's really mostly other guys that are carrying the load there in terms of improvisation. And George does his bits, but I don't think that is his comfort zone for sure. It's almost like the coda of can't you hear me knocking? And based on what I've read about that track, it was kind of a spontaneous thing where Mick Taylor just wouldn't stop playing. And Bobby Keys is along, contributing his saxophone parts as well. It's just an interesting musical dynamic. So had they explored that direction as instrumentalists more, I think it would have been really, really interesting. But Beatles music, by definition, tended to be concise, to the point, super sharply edited. And we're not gonna overstay our welcome one bit because we're Beatles. It wasn't their thing, but it was interesting when they dabbled in it.

[Gary Wenstrup]

All right, should we move on to My Silver?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yes.

[Gary Wenstrup]

All right. The moments under consideration for the Silver. John and Paul's harmony vocal on mean Mr. Mustard. The transition from the End, the song out of the guitar solo noise, brilliant, but noise. Into the peaceful, quiet piano of End. In the End, the transition of Paula theme Pam into bathroom window. Kind of that moment when I think it's Paul that says, oh, look out. And then one sweet dream. That musical segment from you Never Give Me youe Money. So those are my. Yeah, I know. I was hoping I could slip it in and you wouldn't be paying attention. I was wrong.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Go for another medal.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Of those four moments, my favorite is one sweet dream. I love that it's only four lines. I think once we pick up the bags, get in limousine, soon we'll be away from here. Wipe that tear away. I love how Paul sings it. I love the melody of it. And to me it represents freedom. He's busting out of something, though. I don't know what he's busting out of. I'm going to ask you your opinion on this. When I heard it, I always thought he was robbing a bank. So, you know, you never give me your money. Well, he finally gets his money because he robbed a bank. And so his one sweet dream is fulfilled. But then it doesn't quite make sense. Pick up the bags. Okay, that could be the bags of money. Get in the limousine. Most bank robbers don't have limousine. And I don't know why anyone's wiping a tear away while they're robbing a bank. So for all the things that tell me it's not about robbing a bank, it still sounds like he's thinking about robbing a bank to me. But regardless, I don't know. What did you think when he sings that? What image picture was in your mind?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Probably as a child, as a young person, Far different than what I would conclude later on. I mean, subconsciously, you could say he's preparing himself for a situation that's about to end, I. E. The Beatle. But let's embrace the future rather than be sad about it. Step on the gas and wipe that tear away. We're sailing into the UN we're going on an adventure. That's the way I hear it now. If I'm thinking about it. About it. If you ascribe actual literal meaning to a Paul McCartney lyric.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. What did you think about it when you heard it back in the day?

[Robert Rodriguez]

I don't think I thought that hard about it.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Okay. All right.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I guess, I think. Okay, I take that back. What I thought about it was sort of transitioning into adulthood and not being. Don't be afraid of it because there's a whole thing proceeding out of college, money spent where it's all looking bleak, but then it has that weird but oh, that magic feeling.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes. Yeah. Where to go. Yeah, that makes sense to me. That's a good extension of the out of college, no money spent, don't be afraid of it, embrace it sort of thing. That's cool. So that is my silver. All right. Paul singing one sweet what was your bronze?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Remind me the end thing or bronze was.

[Gary Wenstrup]

No, I'm not doing a medal within a medal.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I'm not doing a medal within a medal. I'm just sharing what was in contention for my medal. In no particular order.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Got that, listeners?

[Gary Wenstrup]

TV score at home. So those are in contention for my medal. But the winner, there's only one silver, and that silver is one sweet dream. There was only one bronze, and that bronze was Ringo's drum solo.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Okay, got it. Okay. Maybe you threw some moments on the table there. Four of them to be precise.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes, they did.

[Robert Rodriguez]

This episode of Something about the Beatles is sponsored by Distrokid. Distrokid is a service that distributes music into the streaming platforms and also collects your royalty payments. It enables you to share with collaborators. It also has a feature that will polish up your recordings called Mixia. Basically it is a way to get your best foot forward out there before a listening audience, making your music shine and get it into all the proper channels and make sure you get paid for your work. As a special offer to listeners of something about the Beatles and I know there are many who are musicians, you could take advantage of this 30% off their first year subscription by going to distrokid.com that's-I s t r o k-I d.com VIP SATB good for 30% off your first year of subscribing to Distrokid. So check it out if you are music makers and artists out there and make your music shine. The Distrokid app is available. Go to the app or Play Store to download it. The world moves fast. Your workday even faster. Pitching products, drafting reports, analyzing data. Microsoft 365 Copilot is your AI assistant for work built into Word, Excel, PowerPoint and other Microsoft 365 apps you use helping you quickly write, analyze, create and summarize so you can cut through clutter and clear a path to your best work. Learn [e-mail] M365 copilot They're all great moments. If we're going to Then segue into My Silver the entirety of the Never Give Me youe Money song is my Silver. It's my favorite individual composition of Paul's on the album.

[Music Producer/Engineer]

Album.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And what's striking about this album is he typically had some sort of standard or money spinner or classic song that could be covered by other people on a Beatle album. He generally he was the one that came up with those things. So you're thinking, okay, well what was it on the White album? Well, I would say Blackbird was a song that got covered to death by a lot of people. Few people have done. Back in USSR Birthday was hit in its day by that garage band, what was it? Underground Sunshine or something like that.

[Gary Wenstrup]

You say it's your birthday.

[Robert Rodriguez]

One hit wonder. Nobody gives a damn about anymore Old Bloody Blood. I was done by Marmalade. So he had that knack. And the Let It Be album chronologically recorded in between Get Back, Let It Be Long and Road. Those are his evergreens. Right. He doesn't really have one on Abbey Road, which is kind of weird. At the same time he's writing Goodbye and Come and get it and and on fire as a composer really. So it's not a criticism, it's just an observation. O Darling never really got picked up by other people. But there's a nice version that he did with Chrissy Hyde singing it in recent years. I can't remember what the benefit was or if it was just a concert, if it was Glastonbury or what. But. So there's that Maxwell, the dark masterpiece. I don't hate on it like a lot of people do. I think it's commendable he was doing something dark and sort of framing it as a happy go lucky, sing along. That's cool. That takes care of his side one. Side two is mostly the medley. And extracting bits to cover doesn't really lend itself to that. You know. So you got. You ever giving your money golden slumbers. You know, if I were to be giving out medals to moments that smiles awake you when you rise vocal. I love that. That hold the chills that comes from that. I dare you to go to sleep that bit. If you're trying to sing somebody's sleep.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I know that's why it doesn't make sense.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, then you're reverting to your Gary Winster vision of a lyric. Has to make sense or it's no good.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Well, but I think the music should try to be in sync with the lyric. So as you know, he gets that lyric from a poem from the 16th century or something. And as I recall, he didn't know the music that went with it. He knows the words and he found the words restful, if memory serves, that was the word. He does not sing those lines in a restful manner, but he sings the.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Hell out of it. And it's his using that exquisite instrument of a voice that he once had to good effect that you rarely hear outside of where he's purposely just trying to make noise like Helter Skelter.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I agree. It's interestingly sung. And I was trying to think, would that be his Louis Armstrong voice? I mean, there's. Puts real gravel into it when he does it, but I struggle with it. Doesn't match the lyric, but that's my own.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I digress. But to pick medals for moments. The entire last verse of Darling.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

The way he sings the last verse and just the whole build up. I'll never do you no harm that he belts out at the end, it's just fantastic. The whole thing about that song, to me it's almost like a Jeff Lynn production, minus the repetition and mountain of acoustic guitars in that it seems hollow, like it's all top end and some bottom end, but there's no middle. It always sounded different to me in not a good way, mastering or production wise, something. There was no meat to it. Did you ever find it listening to oh Darling? It's sort of top heavy.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I kind of know what you mean, but I really have to go back and listen to it through that lens. I kind of know what you mean.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. I mean you hear the kick in the bass fine and the top. The piano is sort of pitched toward the higher end of things. And the cymbals and the vocal, all that stuff, but there's no middle. And that always detracted. It was distracting to me. It's like there should be some beefiness here and there's not.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I do really like your observation. I've never thought about it before that Paul doesn't have an amazing radio ready composition here. Though apparently he considered Maxwell Silver Hammer worthy of single status.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, you don't hear that from him. You hear that from the other Beatles bitching about it. So I don't know why that song is such A lightning rod. I think that's one of these unanswered questions.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

I don't know. It's fairly typical of a lot of songs Paul's written. John, do you think. Yeah, It's a typical McCartney sing along or whatever you call them, huh. He did quite a lot of work on it. I was in. I was ill after the accident when they did most of that track. And I believe he really ground George and Ringo into the ground recording it. You know, it's one of those instant sort of whistle along tunes which I don't know, some people will hate and some people will really love it, you know, it's more like Honey Pie, you know, fun sort of song. But it's pretty sick as well though, because the guy gets. Keeps killing everybody.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Everything the other three said about it is pretty much patently untrue. They didn't do it more times than any other song. They didn't spend more money on that because Paul wanted to be a single and it never could be a single in the million years they spent one day less on that track than they did on Octopus's Garden. So I don't understand where the vitriol is coming from. You got George saying it was so fruity. Well, so is anything you play with the ukulele. He was a guy that embraced that sort of Tin Pan Alley music anyway. You know his Hoagie Carmichael covers and True Love. So I don't think that's a valid criticism other than in the moment. You caught him being not the rarest of things, caught him being negative toward Paul.

[Gary Wenstrup]

So Maxwell Silver Hammer, whenever I did tapes back in the day, was always left off. It really rubs me the wrong way. It's just this.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Paul specifically does the subject matter, the.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Performance, the subject matter. And I feel like Paul's working so hard, he's kind of tarting it up, kind of overselling it. And to me the best example is the little bit when he sings. Writing, writing 50 with the laugh I must not be so exactly the laugh. There's no reason for that.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think you put your finger on something that. What you said a second ago, that was Dick Lester's rap on Paul. He tries too hard. There's maybe a sort of forced light hearted darkness about the song that may be rubbing you the wrong way. And I get that if people want to point to something, I think that's drilling into something that might be affecting people the wrong way, that. That maybe absent. That would have made it more compelling, I don't know. But the fact that Joe Orton, the playwright, when they were really trying to break the Beatle paradigm, especially of the Dick Lester films, they're trying to get him to write a script in 67 that they could do as something really dark and out there and we're not Beatles anymore, that kind of thing. And he submitted something that he knew in advance they would reject. And it was I guess, sort of androgynous themed thing that Paul's comment was well, it's too gay and we're not gay. Maybe Mick would like that kind of thing, but it's not for us. But then he ends up being beaten to death with a hammer by his lover Kenneth Halliwell in August of 67, the same month Brian died. So I'd always. Once I became aware of that, I always wondered is there a tie in with Maxwell Paul trying to channel a real life thing into a lighthearted music hall type song or is it just. No random. He didn't really have a connection there. He's not cop to it because he'd probably be in bad taste if he did anyway. Yeah, my friend got murdered and I was trying to use that for a song.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Well, you could make the case. It's how I was working through my sadness. Yeah, working through my grief. It's probably a stretch that he barely knows the guy but I mean you could make that case trying to process it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, the way he described it was like I just wanted to come up with this thing of things are sailing along fine till this pathologic or sociopathic entity comes along to destroy everything. Now if he's using it as sort of a metaphor for his life that we were doing great, then all of a sudden this out of nowhere dark turn came and ruined everything. That resonates a bit as something that may have informed his thinking with the song and trying to turn it into something light hearted that no one would take serious but still trying to channel that thought out. What is it about life that something bad out of nowhere can come along and just upset everything you thought you had under control?

[Gary Wenstrup]

That's an interesting insight. I'd be surprised if Paul was writing gave it that much thought. But it's a fine insight. The only thing that I really enjoy in Maxwell Silverhammer, I like the synth sounds. A lot of interesting synthesizer moments in sounds within that song but you know, without those I can't be bothered.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

That's one of the tunes we use synthesizer on which is pretty effective on this.

[Robert Rodriguez]

If only the Beatle who owned the synthesizer could have made an album of Experimentation on it. Wouldn't that have been cool? Wait a minute.

[Gary Wenstrup]

We'll play that out. What's your point of view on that album?

[Robert Rodriguez]

It's down There Were Two Virgins in terms of. One listen is probably sufficient to cover the subject. But to me, I look at it as a missed opportunity to do something really cool with it. I mean, even Mickey Dolenz was doing interesting playing around on MOG synthesizer the previous year or two when he acquired. You listen to Daily Night or even Star Collector. It's far more interesting than anything on electronic sound.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. And the synthesizer, as you know, is frequently used on this record. And it's used beautifully. It's never. Yeah, it's always a nice rich sound or element. Unusual. Doesn't get in the way. It's pretty more than it is. I don't know, annoying or. And I don't know, they use it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I will give that to people, especially going forward in the Wings era, that if he used a synth, he used it tastefully as an embellishment and didn't overdo it like a lot of people did with synth. The restraints are off. We can go anywhere our imagination takes us while. Well, not always for the greater good. Like any tool, use it sharply and focused. If you go crazy, you're diluting any impact that's going to have. Because you just make it unlistenable. But whatever. That's a homie.

[Gary Wenstrup]

The key word is tasteful. You're right. The use of it here is so taste throughout. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Anyway, we got totally off track of My Silver, which was.

[Gary Wenstrup]

We sure did.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. It's a lovely suite of various themes, as you. You pointed out. And it starts out beautifully. Paul voice and piano. And there's a great harmonies throughout. The Oz in the background that I love that. I don't think, unfortunately, that it's all three other Beatles. I don't think John is part of it. It might be Paul harmonizing with himself throughout it. I'm not that aware. But anytime something sounds like they're all fully engaged, it's generally a winner in my book with the Beatles and wish there were more of that. But it's a good enough simulation that it makes you think Beatles and it feels like Beatles. And it's implemented like a beetle would implement it. And the drumming is great. Or's guitar is terrific throughout it. The lead, especially that callback to Badge, the arpeggios at the end. And the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, where it does sound like John's present. I don't Know that he is, but it sounds like he is.

[Gary Wenstrup]

It sounds like it. I agree.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah. That makes it a winner in that it's got. It's like in a nutshell, everything you always loved about the Beatles. The drumming, the vocals, the ahs, the musical invention, the tunefulness, the not overstaying its welcome. It takes you on a little trip. Whether it's about robbing banks or something else. Doesn't matter.

[Gary Wenstrup]

That's great. I like this is the Beatles in one track. I like that. That's a great, I don't know, again, lens to look at this song through. I like, love that.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And it's perverse, the whole music and the lyrics being completely at odds. Out of college money, Spence, you know, future pain over it. All the money's gone, nowhere to go and it's this jolly boogie woo.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Any job or got the sack Monday morning, you know, it's just the music, the joviality of it belies this grim situation. Unless it's met as like, I'm cheering myself up here. It doesn't matter. It's like that juxtaposition to me is winning because it's so darkly ironic.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. I love your idea that all the wonderful elements of the Beatles are here. You mentioned the background vocals. The background vocals on this album are very consistent with each other. It's this very. It's kind of what you started talking about at the beginning. It's a very. What's the word I want? Kind of plastic sound. It's a very even. It's hard to pick out John and George and Paul in it. It's a wash. It's just kind of a wash. Squeaky clean. Yeah, it's kind of just a wash. Where it's not as nearly as distinctive as their background vocals have been in the past.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You're exactly right. Fast forward a quarter century, or however longer than that. Fast forward 50 years to now and then.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And how they fly in those parts from Abbey Road. It evokes instantly. It's like instant beetles just add water. You've got that evocation of Beatles that I think clearly they recognize, hey, we need more beetles on this track. And so they flew that stuff in. To me, it works with that application. But you could see them doing that on Abbey Road where maybe things are fractured to the point, you know, Paul famously says, well, we were too uptight. I was too self conscious to ask John if I could sing harmonies and come together in making the case. It was part of this April 1970 statement to Ray Connolly of why the Beatles had to break up. Even though that was not the intent of his self interview, nonetheless, things were headed in that direction. Anybody with working a set of ears calls bullshit. When you hear Paul's voice had come together.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Sure. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And it was just pictures of them standing at the mic together. So I don't know. I do think there's certainly. And we know with the recording schedule and John's absence for a good chunk and all the stuff they got out him like here comes the sun and they certainly seem to be in a rush to get the album out, that they didn't take the time. Okay, John's back. Great. Now we could record this three part harmony here. They didn't do that. It was like once something was done, we're done. We've signed off on that. Forget it.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, yeah. So the harmonies become kind of a blend, but with no distinctiveness to it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, you're exactly right.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Anything else you want to add about you? Never give me your money?

[Robert Rodriguez]

No, it's just a beautiful track. It's just a great, great Beatle performance that was always a standout to me. Whether you include it as part of the medley or not, it's a song from start to finish. Unlike the other ones that we know were just sort of fragments.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. Okay, so we'll move on to my gold. And here my moments under consideration for a gold. No medals here. These are just what's under consideration. And oddly enough, one of them, or coincidentally one of them, is the intro to you Never Give Me youe Money. You've got the beautiful piano that you talked about on the left channel. And then the guitar comes in on the right channel and they sort of mingle a little bit with each other before Paul starts singing. It's just calm and it's a beautiful interplay between the guitar and the piano. So that's one of my contenders for gold. Another contender is the bright, rich bursts of brass and strings in you're gonna carry that rich. It rolls around twice. I just love that sound. It's so rich and full and bright. I love that sound. And then my third contender is Once there was a way to get back homeward. Once there was a way to get back home. And that's what wins. My goal is that moment. I love the melody line. I love the way Paul sings it. Once there was a way to get back home. It just tugs at my heart. It's the melancholy pull of nostalgia, the comfort of the past that he communicates so cleanly, so simply in just these two Lines with the melody line and the way he sings it still gets me to this day. And he sings it twice. And I happen to prefer the second one because we get more George Morton Orchestra sort of answering his vocal lines. But that is my gold moment on Abbey Road. Once there was a way to get back home Once or was a way back.

[Robert Rodriguez]

All said, it seems like if you look at his mindset in this period, as the business troubles are becoming more and more manifest, that home seems to be like a North Star for him. We're on our way home, two of us. What was the quote in the Self interview? Any themes on this album? Family, home, love, home. He's honing in on home. Home is the ultimate destination of where everything is right.

[Gary Wenstrup]

And is it his home that he's building with Linda, or is it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, that's what it would end up being.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Sure that's what it'll end up being. Because he certainly had difficulty in his own home when his mother dies when he's 16. But maybe thinking about the times prior to her death, or maybe thinking in.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Terms of Beatle terms, us getting back home, getting back to where we started. Hey, I know. Let's show up at the Cavern as Ricky and the Red street. Because let's go back to being that little rock and roll band like we were on the roof. We've shown we can do it, so it's like you've gone too far astray. Let's get back to square one. Which he ended up, of course, doing with Wings and the college Dates and all that stuff. So it's interesting to wonder what he meant by evoking that so frequently.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes. Yes. If you look at it through the lens that you're describing, he perhaps lamenting what the Beatles have lost. You know, that sense what you just said, that sense of fun, of just how much fun it was just to play together when we're doing it for.

[Robert Rodriguez]

The purest of reasons. Before it became this phenomenon and with all the negativity that came with it, we used to have fun doing it.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. Okay. Moving on to your Cole. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So I will say with this, the songs we haven't mentioned, like, come together. Great performance. Great group performance, I might add, of them contribute the fantastic drum pattern that was so different from Ringo. John does a great vocal on it. It's funny, it never occurred to me Till Hearing Anthology 3 When there's that outtake, that early take where his voice starts disintegrating.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

That either he was rusty or it was hard for him to sing. In that moment, it's hilarious to listen to what went into that finished record. But it's a. A great, great lyric of Lennon going back to his sort of wordplay. Random phrases that you can draw whatever meaning you want from them. George's part, the harmony lead throughout. That's almost like an early clue to the new direction with the bends that he's tipping his hand of his future slide voice that he'll be using henceforth. Paul's swampy electric piano. Yeah, yeah. J. Jeff Emmerich notwithstanding. And the great bass runs he plays on that song. So it's a terrific track start to.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Finish, possibly over familiar one note about that. I'm sure you've seen the interview clip. Ringo says this is his favorite Beatles song, that all four of them playing together. And George Martin. I just came across a quote where he used this as an example of. It's an okay song. And then Paul brings in his bass line and it gets better. And George adds his guitar. It gets better. And Ringo comes in with the drums and. And now you've got a great song. So George Martin used it as an example of the alchemy of all of them playing together.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, it's a great record. It's a great recording. I still don't know if I would call it a great song in terms of composition, but it's fine for what it is. And maybe a sort of full circle if you're using it as a tie to Chuck Berry.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So they're going home on that track.

[Gary Wenstrup]

There you go.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So something great. Great track. What is there to say about it other than to evoke your earlier love of George Martin's production and string arrangements. There's that on there. His vocal sounds good. But my favorite. If I was to give a medal to a moment, it's the bridge and it's George and Paul just nailing that together. They're harmonies and they're just almost dueling where they go a little bit out of sync with each other on the. I don't know. And it just. It's this magnificent, wonderful moment.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I totally agree with you. It would be my gold moment on the album as well. I love it. I was thinking about it last night. I was thinking, I wonder if George would have pushed his voice so much without Paul. It's my instincts that it's Paul that draws. That makes him reach further on that grid. I love that moment.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Could very well be. Yeah. But it shows. George, as we've talked about in the show before, never seemed to waste an Opportunity to put down Paul whenever he got a chance to. And it's the kind of thing that sticks, you know, it's not the kind of, you know, sometimes if somebody praises you, it falls away because either it's self evident or you didn't express it so colorfully. But when he puts down Paul, it tends to stick. And the kind of irony to that is they work so well together. You need another example? Look at I, Me, Mine, Paul's hand in glove with him on the final track, both singing and. And as we know, contributing that rocker rave up bridge that wasn't part of George's original composition. So there was so much potential gone unrealized that I think that they balance each other really well. Maybe George found it too much of a chore to keep Paul in check because Paul is somebody who benefited greatly from somebody pulling back on the reins with him. I know Elvis Costello had that issue later on, so maybe George was like, I can't do this one of the other.

[Gary Wenstrup]

So that bridge that you and I both, I always was thinking about the song construction. Why couldn't he bring that back again? Why couldn't it be twice in that song? It's so good, I want it to come back again.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You could do that live, I suppose, where you're trying to please a crowd. Did he? Okay.

[Gary Wenstrup]

He did it live in that 1992 natural law concert. He did. He did the bridge twice in that.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Who sang with them?

[Gary Wenstrup]

Nobody that. I only listened to it. I haven't watched. I only listened to it. I don't know that anybody sang it with him. It's certainly not as rich as when he sings it with Paul. The other thing he does in that performance, he does a little guitar intro before the song starts that is absolutely gorgeous. It's only, I don't know, 10 seconds and it's gorgeous. It's just beautiful. It's on YouTube. So if you're a George Harrison fan, I totally, totally recommend it. 1992 Natural Law Party intro and you.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Get to your could have had Sam Brown.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I don't know if he was there or not. I don't know. I don't know.

[Robert Rodriguez]

She.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Gotcha.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, because she did first her mother and then Sam took over doing a lot of backing vocals with George, starting with, I think Shanghai Surprise and Cloud 9. And then Sam ends up singing with him on Horse to the Water. And then the doing that magnificent show stopping performance of it at concert for George. Yeah, he's great. Anyway, so, yeah, Something we didn't talk about. But there's. There's plenty to love there. Here Comes the Sun has become sort of ubiquitous these days. It's the most streamed Beatles song. The most streamed George song probably. It's. And they made that latter day music video to it. So it's got legs, it's got attention. It's the song that I think most people can't believe wasn't the same single. It's always been a standout because I can remember back in the day when there was a solar eclipse that they were broadcasting on TV and they played that. Do you know about that? In the early 70s.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes, I remember that. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So it's always gotten a lot of attention for a song that's an album track.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Speaking of it as a single, probably remember Richie Haven did a version of it, I want to say in the early. I don't know, 72. 70 maybe?

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think it was 70.

[Gary Wenstrup]

71. Okay.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think 70. But it was a hit singer.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes, I love his version. As a matter of fact, if someone asked me to sing it, I would probably sing Richie Havens version. Just cause it's very rhythmic and he strums it very aggressively. I'm not taking anything away from George's and the Beatles performance but I love what Richie Havens did with the song. And as you know, it's so hard to do a cover of a Beatles song and add anything fresh or interesting. But to me, Richie Havins Haven did on.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, it's wonderful. I love it.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Here comes the sun Here comes the.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

Sun Here comes the sun Here comes.

[Gary Wenstrup]

The sun and I say it's all right, it's all alright no, no, no, no, no, it's all right.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It was one that I may have heard before I heard the Beatles version because it was played on top 40 radio. It' you know that, right?

[Gary Wenstrup]

I didn't know that. No, I didn't know that.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, you hear the clapping at the end. Like it was done in a small club or something like that. But yeah, I know that they cross paths at least once. There's a picture of Richie Havens with George that I've seen. But I know that Richie Havens did other Beatles stuff like he did the Richie Havens treatment to like Strawberry Fields at least. But the Beatle version is very different of course. Fantastic drumming from Ringo on it. Good synth part. Part the. The sun, sun, sun. Vocals are nice. It starts out elegantly and ends on that nice little strum. It's beautifully recorded and engineered. So yeah, there's nothing not to love about that seems a little bottom heavy in certain masterings of it. I remember that in the mobile fidelity version, that, you know, bass line, it's very simple. It's not all over the place. But he's sort of accenting the kids kick. Paul is. Did you ever hear the recording Paul produced during the Abbey Road sessions of Que Sera Sera, Mary Hopkin?

[Gary Wenstrup]

No.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, Ringo plays on that, too. It's Paul. Ringo. And I just remember when I heard it, eventually it sort of reminded me of what he does on Here Comes the Sun in terms of feel. When I grew up and fell in.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

Love what will there be?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Will there be rainbows day after day? Here's what he said to me. Anyway, that's a little side note that might have made my gold on another Day. But for the purposes of this show, really, the one I have to go with is because. So you got the stacked beetle vocals. Anytime you get all three of those guys singing together, whether you've won. I thought sonically, it's another direction I would have liked to have seen them explore more. It doesn't sound like any other Beatles song. I'm not just talking about the chord structure, which we famously know was cribbed from Moonlight Sonata and Yoko playing the chords backwards at John's request. There is some overlap, but not completely. It's a different sound. And lyrically it's saying a lot with a little. Again, I just find the whole thing very much. And it was cool. There had been bootlegs prior to. But when Love came out and did it acapella stripping away the backing. Yeah. It's like, wow, this is so much power.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Totally agree. I love the version from the Love production. And as simple as the lyrics are, there's still an interesting twist to them. Right. The world is round it turns me on the world turns the wind is high it blows my mind and sky's blue and cause it's blue it makes me cr. So there's not much to sink your teeth into. But what there is. There's a little twist in them that makes it interesting.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Love is old, love is new Love is all Love is you. That's a great couplet.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. Totally agree. Totally agree.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Robert, I'm curious. Have you ever heard an outtake of just the three of them singing the harmony before it's doubled or tripled?

[Robert Rodriguez]

I don't think so. Nothing comes to mind right now unless it's part of the Abbey Road set.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I don't think either. And I meant to check before we did this and I didn't. But I would love to hear that. I would love to hear where their three voices are very distinct from each other. Before it was double, triple, whatever it was. George Martin.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, I believe it was tripled. And Ringo was sitting there padding out time.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, Keeping the beat.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So they're all involved.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes. Oh, that's nice, that's nice. I forgot that Ringo was there. Keeping the beat. That's great that you brought that. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Can you imag his voice being added to it?

[Gary Wenstrup]

I'd rather not. The simplicity of it maybe lessens it in some people's eyes, but then it raises it in other people's eyes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So the one song we haven't talked about is Her Majesty.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Well, actually have. And maybe it's by design. We haven't talked about Octopus's Garden.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Oh, have we not? I guess not. I thought on the subject of Ringo. Okay, Octopus's Garden, that's another song that I think, because it's got such pronounced contributions from other Beatles, really elevates it. Gorgeous guitar playing throughout. It's unbelievable. It's amazing. I'm not 100% sure, off top of my head if John's on it or not.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I think I've read that he is, but I don't hear him necessarily.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, it sounds like Beatles, though, because there is all the active vocals in the background going on harmony wise.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, it's certainly pleasant. It's jaunty. It's a shame that Ringo's two signature songs are both kind of aquatic. It's kind of a shame, yeah.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

I think it's the bubble bubble, you know, and the fact that it's under the sea bit. I suppose it is, really. Yeah. It doesn't have any other connection. No, except it's about the bottom of the sea, you know, getting away from it all.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I like it better than Don't Pass Me By.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Oh, you and me both. It's a solid pop song. It's solid and nice. There's some nice lyric touches. We would be warm below the storm. That's nice. Im Great line from George.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Do you ever remember reading the Rolling Stone? I think it was for Rolling Stone interview about Abbey Road. He's promoting the album and they're talking about Octopus Garden and I think that was the line he quoted.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

The lyrics are great, really, for me, you know, I find very deep meaning in the lyrics, which Ringo doesn't. Probably doesn't see, but all the things like resting our head on the seabed and. And they will be warm beneath the storm, which is really great, you know, because it's like this level is a storm. And it's always, you know, if you get sort of deep in your consciousness, it's very peaceful. So Ringo's writing his cosmic songs without noticing.

[Gary Wenstrup]

That does ring a bell. And maybe that's where I'm getting it. But I like that line. And resting our head on the seabed. That's a lovely line, too.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You know what my favorite Octopus's Garden Experience, Apple Studio, where he's bringing it in, playing it for George Martin. And George has got the guitar on and it just looked like they're having the time of their lives. And you really get that. I know you're older than me, but I'm gonna be the big brother here and step up and show you how you can get back to the verse out of the bridge by adding these chords here.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, It's a great moment that is captured. Both Georges look like. Here's Ringo the Silk Tim trying to write a song, but, you know, God bless him. George steps and helps him write the song.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Huh?

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah.

[Gary Wenstrup]

So to your point, we didn't talk about Her Majesty, and I'd love to talk about it, but why don't you share your thoughts about Her Majesty?

[Robert Rodriguez]

It's an interesting little artifact, I guess. I think it's right where it belongs, if it belongs anywhere.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I agree. But I think I have more love for it than you do. To me, it's the perfect corrective or counterbalance to the grandeur of. It's sort of a wink and a nod from Paul to the rest of us, like, let's not take ourselves too serious. So to me, it's irreverent. It's sort of cheeky. So it's kind of quintessential Beatles humor. And I love that it exists. And I think it exists in the perfect place.

[Robert Rodriguez]

An accident, right?

[Gary Wenstrup]

Right. Do you want to explain that?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, yeah, the whole John Kerlander thing. The late engineer at Abbey Ray Road, who I guess was new on the job. He might have been a tape op on Abbey Road. I don't think he became an engineer till later. But anyway, he was involved in the production of the album. It had been in the medley as we described. You could hear that. You could find it on YouTube if you want to hear what it sounded like of John and Paul songs going back and forth. And that fell between me and Mr. Mustard and pal and Pam. And when they were listening to it back, Paul said, no, that doesn't work. Take it out. Out so it was excised from the tape. And that's why you're missing the chord at the end of Her Majesty is because it's the opening chord of Palatine Pam opening strum. And anyway they'd been instructed at emi if it's Beetle performance on tape, do not bin it, do not get rid of it, save it. And he didn't know what to do with it. It's like 20 something seconds long. So he took it and just spliced it to the end of the master tape of Abby Rock Road where there was already a dead end leader following the end. So you got all those seconds of silence and then it pops up. That was just him preserving it but not knowing where else to put it. It wasn't meant to be part of the album. That wasn't his thought process. It was I'm saving. If anybody needs it, that's where it is. But the album's done, it's mastered, it's finished. And so anyway, when they heard that and it's like, oh yeah, okay, I gotta keep this. So the so called first hidden track, although it's not. And it became the perfect touch. Now somebody had made the point in recent years that Beatles in humor book, it might have been Aviv Kamay, a friend of mine, if you look for it, and God knows Beatle people love looking for patterns and meanings where may not be intended. Is that the Beatles ended their albums on jokes past a certain point. So that's the joke for Abbey Road. The joke on Let It Be is hope we pass the audition. The joke on the White Album, you can argue it is Ringo singing in front of a lush orchestra. Pepper, It's a Dog Whistle Revolver Tomorrow Never Knows. It's that honky tonk piano at the end of the psychedelic piece. Yeah, that throwback on Rubber Soul of Baby Let's Play House. This misogynistic piece of work after Girl and My Life, the Word and all that. So you know, who the hell knows? But it's consistent.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I guess that's fun. And of course, you know, one of the things that's interesting about Abbey Road, both sides end with something cut off side one and side two. And both side one and side two start with the same two words. Here come.

[Robert Rodriguez]

That's right, yeah.

[Gary Wenstrup]

How long have you been sitting on that? I'm glad I could share it now.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Wait for this moment.

[Gary Wenstrup]

It sounds like you seem dismissive of Her Majesty. And I get it's just a tornado 20 second sort of throwaway where I sort of think it adds so much value to the album. Do you share that sentiment or not really?

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think that as a means of deflating the pomposity, to use that Tyler Carr phrase, it serves its purpose. If it wasn't there, if the album just ended when it did on the end. I don't know if it's just years of conditioning to. Where it's like you're waiting for the other shoe to drop, like you needed something there.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I hope we pass the audition or anything. So I guess it absolutely does work. Even though it wasn't intended. I'd miss it if it wasn't.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. And it's. It's unusual, too. Does it start on the right channel and end on the left channel or vice versa?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Could be. I don't usually listen to music through headphones.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. Which is not something they did. Ordinary Hendrix. There you go. Yeah. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

So you want to restate your medals.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes. So. So my gold, silver and bronze is all the medley. My bronze within the medley is Ringo's drum solo. My silver is Paul singing. One Sweet Dream segment in youn Never Give Me youe Money. And my gold is Paul singing. Once There Was a Way to Get Back Home.

[Robert Rodriguez]

That is a great moment. I guess my bronze, as stated, was I Want yout. She's so heavy.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Silver. You never give me your money and gold. Because I could live with that for you today.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Be different tomorrow, right?

[Robert Rodriguez]

It will be different tomorrow.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

Yeah.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But on the whole, I probably enjoyed Abby Wrote as an album more when I was younger than I do now, which is not to detract from it. It's just my tastes. It just changed. Where slick is less attractive to me.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Okay. All right, that's valid. I loved one of the things that was interesting for me as I went back. Since I'm a little bit older. I heard most of the Beatle albums sort of as they were released. And I have very specific memories of listening. Rubber Soul and Revolver and Pepper. Magical Mystery Tour, the White Album. I don't have a specific memory of hearing this for the first time. Were you in college or the early Times? No, no, no. I was only 11 years old or something when I heard it.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You're grooving on Black Sabbath or something.

[Gary Wenstrup]

No, you know better than that. But I don't have a specific memory of this. And I don't know why that is.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Because There was no McCartney standard on it.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Maybe because the sound is too clean. I don't. No, but I just don't have a strong memory.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, do you remember Come Together or something being played on AM radio.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I do not come together. Something. I remember being played on AM radio.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And you're in Detroit at this point.

[Gary Wenstrup]

In Detroit, Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It's hard for me to really go back to being that young and what is real or imagined.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I know it's become such an FM staple. I don't remember it being on amre, but that's a long go.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I do think past a certain point where my Beatle awareness was being raised, that I concluded Here Comes the Sun must have been a single, just because I knew it so well.

[Gary Wenstrup]

It's funny you mentioned that as we were talking about the song, that a lot of people thought it should have been a single. And I've never heard it as sort of single material. And I can't tell you why. It just doesn't sound like a single to me.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, I get what you're saying in terms of the values of a single. However, it doesn't sound jarring on the radio. And I hear. Hear it every single week on the radio. And I don't listen to that much radio these days. But it's never left consciousness. It's always there. It is always there. And I was fascinated when Beatles went to Spotify and streaming that. That. And granted, what was it during COVID that happened? That maybe thematically people were seeking that positivity, that sunshine that long outlived the song's writing.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But it's amazing to me. And it was kind of. I love it when your expectations end up not being realized. You know, you would have thought some Paul song would have been the number one Beatles dream song. Instead, it's the Dark Horse.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah. And I wonder how John would feel about that or if he would care in the least. When you look at most covered Beatles songs, you know, George, I think is. I think Paul's Yesterday, and then Eleanor Brigby, and then it's George with Here Comes Excuse me. It was something, you know, John doesn't sort of get in the game until Hard Day's Night. And maybe all you need is love and Come Together, which is further down the road. I wonder how he feels about that. Yes. Yes.

[Robert Rodriguez]

What's the most covered John Lennon composition of the Beatles? Do you happen to know that?

[Gary Wenstrup]

I looked it up the other day. I actually wrote it down because I thought it was kind of interesting how something.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Cause you'd mentioned Hard Days Night. All you need is. I mean, apart from in 64, when jazz guys were playing Hard Day's Night.

[Gary Wenstrup]

You're correct about that. It's all the covers. But it's also, I think, when people are playing it live, which I have a feeling my come together gets in there.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I would think so, because we know of at least two right off the top of our heads. Michael Jackson and Aerosmith.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Right, right. So from when I looked it up in order, most covered Beatles songs yesterday, Eleanor Riggs, something. Let It Be, Paige, Jude, which I don't know that I've heard, hate coverage. But altogether I haven't heard it. Come together. Hard Day's Night, all you need is love, Blackbird and Michelle.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Hard Day's Night. Surprise surprises me.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I would agree with you. But I also like your observation. It was probably jazz version, you know, back in. In this.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, you hear that from being familiar with the Hard Days Night film and that George Martin Orchestra version. But I can imagine, because Ella did Can't Buy Me Love pretty early on.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes. Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And I know Duke Ellington did some tunes from it. That might be one of them. I'm not 100% sure, but I could sort of see. I don't know. Ramsey Lewis did a whole cover of the White Album.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Right. So what this list says to me is so much of John's success is personality driven. His personality comes through so strong in his song that it's not always about construction. It's about the strength or the power of his personality and how he puts them across his voice. Yeah, yeah, it's his voice, but I think there's more than. I think it's also the power of his personality. But you're absolutely right. I agree with you on the voice.

[Robert Rodriguez]

But, yeah, there's an entire package of John Lennon, whatever people think of him, that is obviously and always was very, very attractive to a big segment of the population. And a lot of his stuff is so idiosyncratic. Besides Styx, who the hell would take on Walrus?

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yes, right.

[Robert Rodriguez]

And do a credible version? And I'm not saying they did. I'm saying that's the sixth iteration that became basically their own tribute band. But another artist like Peter Gabriel did Strawberry Fields. There was a Kate Bush version of Come Together, but that was really more when she was kind of a local gigging musician before she became Kate Bush. I'm trying to think of John Todd.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Rundgren, I think, did Strawberry Fields.

[Robert Rodriguez]

He did Rain.

[Gary Wenstrup]

He did Rain.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think he did. That might be on the Faithful album as well. Yeah, I think you're right. But I saw that more as a production challenge because he's trying to be faithful to the original, because he did good Vibrations as well.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Right?

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But.

[Gary Wenstrup]

But I know that was one of.

[Robert Rodriguez]

The things that Yoko used to try to cheer up John with when he was like. They'd go out to a restaurant and somebody's playing, or they go to the Mike Douglas show when he plays Michelle.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

It was always Paul compositions. And she would say, oh, well, that's because they're. Those songs are silly. And you write about important stuff or whatever she said to make him not feel so bad. But I do think it comes down to. You're right. The force was personnel. And the fact that a lot of his stuff, a lot of his best stuff, was idiosyncratic. The Barbra Streisand is a decent version of Mother.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah, agreed.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Agreed that something like Love got covered a few times by some people. Imagine. Must have been covered a lot.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Right, yeah. So this is just Beatles song, so it doesn't get into.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Yeah.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I think we covered the subject.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I know I run out of gas.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

I never give you my.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I only send you my meditations.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

And.

[Robert Rodriguez]

In the middle of the celebration I breathe down. Boy, you're gonna carry that way Carry that way a long time. Something about the Beatles created and hosted by Robert Rodriguez, executive producer Rick Way. Title song performed by the Corgis. Something about the Beatles is an evergreen podcast.

[Music Producer/Engineer]

What plans do you have at the future now for any future LP releases now that this one's out? When can we expect another one? At Christmas. We have one we all. We've already finished, which we finished before this one. Yeah, as I said and all that. And that'll be out of Christmas. And that's called Get Back. It has Get Back on It. Right. And it's. It's more. It's live. Well, it's not really live, so it's not as produced as this. That's all. It's a bit rougher, like in a rehearsal type state. Well, it's. It's. You know, when we make these records, they're so produced that everything is so separate because we play the backing track and then we put the voices on. Then we do all things like that, you know. But on Get Back, we just all get in there together, play it and sing it and do it, you know, like on stage.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

Paul, what about the future of the Beatles? I haven't seen know that the organizers of the Isle of Wight Pop Festival are going to ask you and the rest of the Beatles if you will top the bill next year at the Isle of Wight. Now, what's your reaction to a thing like that? Are you likely to go back on stage and perhaps do a show like that? I don't know, you know, I've never known.

[Gary Wenstrup]

I didn't know that when we were.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

Playing at the cabin that we'd be on the Royal Variety Performance. And after that all the papers said.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Well, what's left left for them?

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

So then we went to America.

[Robert Rodriguez]

I said, what's left room then? You know, then we got into making.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

Better albums and stuff. I mean, I just don't know what's going to happen. It'll be all right, though. I don't see how we can retire.

[Robert Rodriguez]

You know, it's like Bridget Barda and.

[Beatles Member (likely Ringo Starr or Paul McCartney)]

Greta Garbo and all. They try to retire. You can't, because you're always there. Is there any chance of the Beatles playing live again? I don't know. There's always a chance, you know, but the Beatles playing live is a different matter. You know, we got that great thing to live with up to, you know, it's a harder gig, but just for me and Yoko to do out, you know, we can get away with anything. One keeps reading so many conflicting stories about the Beatles touring. Well, I can't see us going on the road again, because it would be the same. Exactly like. And possibly even wilder now, because a lot of people say, oh, it wouldn't be the same. We'd all be quiet and they'd all got petitions saying, come back and tour. And we promised we won't shout, but those. We'd have to play in those big baseball places again, or a little club. And then the only point of playing in a little club would be for ourselves and a handful of people who'd fit in there. So there's just no way, you know, I can't see any way. I don't want to repeat that fiasco of, you know, airplanes and. And now to the latest adventure of Boston Blackie.

[Robert Rodriguez]

Enemy to those who make him an.

[Gary Wenstrup]

Enemy, Friend to those who have no friends there.