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- [00:03]
Robert Rodriguez
When you think about businesses that are selling through the roof, like Skims or Allbirds, sure you think about a great product, a cool brand and great marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business making, selling and for shoppers buying. Simple for millions of businesses. That business is Shopify, it's home of Shop Pay, the number one checkout in the world. You can use it to boost conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going through. To checkout, upgrade your business and get the same checkout Allbirds uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com income all lowercase go to shopify.com income to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com income this podcast is brought to you in part by Magical Mystery Camp coming to Big Indian New York, just two and a half hours from New York City the week of Paul McCartney's 84th birthday, June 16th through the 19th. Featuring a number of special guests including the Fab Foe as well as singer, songwriter, musicians Martin Sexton, Gail ann Dorsey, Cindy Cash Dollar and more. For more information, check out magicalmysterycamp.com something. Hello and welcome to episode 322 of Something about the Beatles Podcast. Now by this time I suppose a lot of you have seen on Amazon prime the documentary treatment of the three lectures Mark Lewison gave in the autumn of 2022, the 60th anniversary of the Love Me do single Evolver 62, the Parlophone debut of the Beatles. And having said that, there's probably not a lot of mystery in your head having seen it. So if you have seen it, then you know what it's about and it would have been nice to have Mark on the show to talk to him directly. That did not happen, but I did get the producer and director of Evolver 62, Simon Weitzman and Chris Purcell, and this ended up being a really fun, cool conversation I was very happy to have with guys that in addition to this, that they talk at length about the process of how this thing came to be made, but also the other Beetle related stuff that they've done film wise. So in the case of Simon, he was director of A Love Letter to the Beatles from 2025, which I've not yet seen, but we talk about it a bit and I would suspect everybody here listening to this, if you haven't seen it, is probably going to want to miss Odell. I'm sure plenty of people have seen that and in fact I will be having Chris back on the show sometime soon to discuss that Simon directed both of those films and Chris worked as cinematographer on Miss Odell. He did a film called the Beatles and Us, basically framed through the lens of Liverpool and what the Beatles meant. It's a short film. Check that out from 2021 and here's one you can go find now. I think in the conversation I refer to it being on YouTube. It's not, it's on Vimeo, but it's called why don't we do it in the Road. It's a five minute film. This was made by Chris. But you'll hear Simon say if you check this thing out, it is like a masterclass in short filmmaking. And I completely agree. So do check that out. Why don't we do it in the Road? Available online on Vimeo for free. Go check it out now. But it's great to talk both of these guys. And I will say that Simon, between the time we first got in contact and the taping of the show, had a health issue that happened. And you'll hear it manifest itself in sort of his halting speech. He didn't need to come on the show, but he did it anyway. And for that I am grateful. So that's what you'll be hearing as this conversation goes on. But did not affect his capacity to communicate otherwise. And I was really, really happy to talk with both these guys because got some great insights into the filmmaking process and covering Beatles generally. And I was very happy to have these conversations. And now you've got other Beetle related stuff they've done to check out as well. So there is all that. Now this podcast is sponsored by Distrokid. You you can check it out@distrokid.com VIPSATB to get 30% off your first year membership. And also by Magical Mystery Camp. Coming the week of June 16, 2026 to Big Indian New York in the Catskills, hosted by the Fab Foe, featuring a number of guests including Martin Sexton and Cindy Cash Dollar as well as myself and other people presenting Beatles stuff. So hope to see there. It'll be a lot of fun. Check out magical mystery camp.com for further information. Now my conversation with Chris and Simon.
- [05:32]
Simon Weitzman
You're John Lennon, aren't you? Yes, that's right. What do you do in the group, John? I play harmonica, rhythm guitar and vocal. That's what they call it. Harmonica, rhythm guitar and vocal. Then there's Paul McCartney. That's me.
- [05:44]
Chris Purcell
Yeah.
- [05:44]
Simon Weitzman
And what do you do? Play bass guitar and sing. I think quite apart from Being vocal? Yeah, well, yeah. Then there's George Harrison. How do you do? How do you do?
- [05:56]
Robert Rodriguez
What's your job?
- [05:57]
Simon Weitzman
Lead guitar and sort of singing. By playing lead guitar, does that mean you're sort of leader of the group or are you? No, no, just. Well, you see, the other guitars, the rhythm. Yeah, ting, ting, ting. Solo guitar. You see, John is in fact the leader of the group.
- [06:13]
Chris Purcell
Yeah.
- [06:13]
Simon Weitzman
I don't know whether we caught that or not, but I hope it went in and over in the background here. And also in the background of the group up making a lot of noise is Ringo Starr. Hello. You're new to the group, aren't you? Yes. Nine weeks now.
- [06:26]
Robert Rodriguez
As a film which is a separate entity, who would you say this is meant for if you had a target audience specifically, or was it just a very broad swath of beetle interested people?
- [06:37]
Simon Weitzman
Chris, I think you'd have to have a fairly profound interest in the Beatles. But so many of us have, so I don't think there's a problem there. No, I think it's such a fundamentally important year, isn't it? 1962. And it's never been told that way. I think that's the key thing about this. I can't think of any other film in the Beatles sphere that's anything like it, really.
- [07:03]
Robert Rodriguez
Not to slobber all over Mark Lewison, who we're all grateful for, for the work he's done, the research. Just the way he shifted our view of their history by doing the digging that nobody has done in places that nobody even dreamed of. But it seems to be a particularly brilliant approach to telling a very complex story by doing it through a series of artifacts that you can present, people can relate to them. An alarm clock, a memorandum, a letter from George from Germany. The series of things. It's not like going through EMI's recording logs or something like that, where you might not understand the breakdown of the tracks or any of that technical stuff. This is all very humanizing and relatable and obviously he's like a bottomless pit of knowledge and can go on for hours and hours if you let him. But the way you guys move the story along, something that I guess was the sort of framework he hung this lecture on. It was going to be 62 artifacts for the year 1962. So 31, then the intermission and then 31 more. So it really lends itself as such visual stuff to the visual medium of the way you do it as well as. Well, here's where this happened. We're gonna go to the old Liverpool Airport. We're going to go to this concert hall venue that they played and oh, here's the spot, by the way, where they recorded that first interview for the Hospital Network. So it's super engaging and just keeps the story moving while giving you that added visual that will stick with you as you're hearing the story being told.
- [08:34]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, Actually the other thing that it neatly does is avoids the being sort of painted into the corner of having to have 62 artifacts because that would have made the film enormously long. But we're hoping no one notices Sauron as many as that.
- [08:49]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah.
- [08:49]
Simon Weitzman
And in fact it doesn't matter because the mechanism of going out on location is enough of a change to jump you forward in the story in a way that absolutely works. But we didn't really know it was going to work until we put it together, to be honest. But thankfully it did.
- [09:05]
Chris Purcell
It's been a very Heath Robinson style production.
- [09:10]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay. Well, I didn't know until fairly recently I'd seen the Chris o' Dell doc back when and there's a similar approach, not with the artifacts, but with the changing locations. And now we're in London and now we're with Peter Asher whoever to advance the story log. So it's a very kinetic way of telling what could be a long, involved, overly detailed story in a way that keeps it relatable. So I saw an echo of that in this, but this is different.
- [09:39]
Chris Purcell
Interesting that you saw that, Robert, because of course Chris and I worked on Ms. O' Dell as well. I think it's more maybe a subconscious way of trying to move an audience along. But it works well enough and I'm glad you saw that. When I said Robinson, it was mainly because Mark had approached both of us at different times to do something with that show. My side, I was in Chicago with him in a fest for fans and it was a casual discussion in just a throwaway thing where he sort of said, oh, you know, trying to do this show in October, I'd really like to see if I could get it filmed. And I just sort of said, well, will do it. And you know, Chris had also talked to you.
- [10:35]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah. I was a bit more skeptical actually when he contacted me because I was unaware that he'd spoken to you as well. But I was thinking, you know, this is an outside broadcast, you know, this is quite a full on thing because I didn't know at the time that he was doing multiple shows, which made it all possible actually. But because obviously we could then have a relatively modest Crew of three or four folk capturing all the shows. And then if he wore the same outfit, we could splice them together. But initially I was thinking, yeah, you know, I can't see how. How else you do this, apart from in the style of an outside broadcast, which is obviously a huge obstacle financially. So, yeah, so it was when we started thinking it through, it started to come together.
- [11:23]
Robert Rodriguez
So it was Mark that approached you guys, wanting to preserve and make possible more exposure to. I think it was three lectures he did.
- [11:32]
Simon Weitzman
That's right.
- [11:32]
Robert Rodriguez
Of evolvers. Yeah. Okay. So that in itself is a great idea because you guys, or at least Simon, I don't know if you too, Chris, having familiarity with the fest. My thing about Beatle events like that, whether it's the fest or some of the things that have taken place at universities, is oftentimes you've got multiple speakers going on in different rooms at the same time, and it's like, for God's sake, why is this stuff not being preserved or livestreamed or something to where anybody who's in room A can see what's going on in room B after the event or something like that. And as a speaker myself, sometimes the most interesting things are the things that the audience throws at you, because it's different for every show, something you might not be expecting to talk about. So it's like if you could preserve that in some fashion, make it available for everybody.
- [12:19]
Simon Weitzman
The thing is, it could have been preserved, you know, just with having a static camera at the back. But we come from a television background, so we were thinking very much in terms of something that would be broadcastable and that would rely on, you know, at least half a dozen camera angles. So there was a barrier to entry because there was no funding at that stage. It was just spitballing ideas. And this show was coming up, so, you know, in the end we realized we could do something that was comparatively low cost and then sort it out in the edit. The other thing about the location filming was that solved a couple of problems. One was jumping the story forward, as we already discussed. But also there were, as Simon will no doubt tell you, because he was in charge of all of that. But there were lots of rights issues with the artifacts that were presented, some of which were very difficult to clear and took ages anyway. Some of those issues were neatly avoided by actually telling those stories on location. But I'd always wanted to do something with Mark, sort of following him around like a beetle detective. In fact, I'd approached him a few years earlier with that suggestion when we first met, actually, and he was sort of wasn't adverse to it, but obviously he's always so busy and got this huge looming deadline over him all the time trying to get these books out that he couldn't get his head around. That really, it would have been far too much of a commitment. But this was a sort of way of doing it in a way. Or certainly those ideas about shooting him on location and following him informed how we went about filming him on location to some degree.
- [14:01]
Robert Rodriguez
So that was baked in from the beginning. Once you committed to doing the three shows, were you thinking ahead that, well, it's one thing to film this and have it be like a TED Talk and everybody's seen that was just a static guy on a stage thing. But it would be great to break it out of there and advance the story by having location inserts. That was part of your thinking from the beginning?
- [14:21]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, I mean, well, certainly everything I try to do, you know, tries to push the production value in a more cinematic direction. And Simon's the same. We're talking about making films that, you know, people might want to sit down in a cinema and watch. You know, that's what we're always aspiring to. That isn't a TED Talk, is it, really? That's something needs another layer.
- [14:44]
Chris Purcell
It also comes down to when we, as Chris said, we, the theater filming on our own time in goodwill and idea that we would find funding afterwards to then extend that. And we were lucky enough to both know Doug Schwab, who runs Liverpool West Productions in Miami. He was very keen to support. So it allowed us to then create the framework to go on location and create something bigger than just the theater film, but also to help us craft something that stayed within the rules, you know, so. And that really was a big turning point for us in the production to be able to do that and allowed us a lot more freedom and also for Mark to have more creative freedom on location. You know, he's so good, as you know, and he did three shows in the theatre. Each one is slightly different. But his ability to remember things is extraordinary. My ability to remember when I got up this morning is bright. So his ability to do three shows so beautifully, eruditely, and then also go on location and create those pieces in the same style is really quite an immense thing on his part because he has to almost emulate the style of what he's doing in the theater, but take it to a different dimension. He does that so well and really, in very few takes. He's a Bit of a one take Johnny, really.
- [16:31]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, well, thank you. But yeah, he deserves an awful lot of credit for that because that is exactly right. He's just. He's so eloquent the way he phrased things and consistent and precisely what you need, you know, when you're trying to minimize the artifice because that's the other thing he wasn't keen on. You know, we're not either. You know, we come from a documentary making background so we're trying to keep the kind of artifice of filmmaking to a minimum. But inevitably you have to do more than one take normally for reasons which more often than not weren't because of him. But yeah, I mean he was, he was really good to work with from that point of view. And I think that hopefully shows.
- [17:14]
Robert Rodriguez
Well, what really shows is the sense of wonder he still has from these discoveries where he's able to make connections with paths that are fortuitous, that will have even more meaning down the road or that this profound piece of paper in this was something of such great import. That kind of stuff that if you're a Beatle fan and you're history minded, that stuff is genuinely as important and critical and historic as he is selling it. And I think that that's something that he's the guy to do that because he projects that quality to make you as a viewer get the importance of every critical little thing along the way. They're at this crossroads here. It could have gone this way, but it went this way. The Paul James thing, you know, things like that. I'm glad you brought up Liverpool west because they seem to be an outfit that specialize and all these different Beatle related themes. I didn't have a sense of this until I looked into it and I saw that I'd had LNG Parker on and I guess they did borrow time. The Chris o' Dell May Pang, wonderful film. They're all different but this is all like deeply interesting topics for Beatle people. The Lewison thing is a different flavor from something like May Pang or Chris Odell's film. But if you're a hardcore enough fan, you want all of this. Chris, you said a moment ago that there were things that you couldn't get permissions for. It's obvious anybody watching any of these Beatle related films unless it is directly sponsored authorized Disney anthology Beatle music is going to be right off the table. But you were indicating there was locations or actual physical things you wanted to use that were tricky to access.
- [18:57]
Simon Weitzman
Well, Simon can answer this. Best items in the show which were problematic from a clearing point of view. Isn't that right, Simon?
- [19:04]
Chris Purcell
Yeah. I think there's more that in a theatrical setting, it's easy because there are slightly different rules, because it's the contrast. Compare. Showing an item that you're talking about in a theatre show, particularly one that's just a few days, it's not so much of an issue if you take that out and you create a theatrical film presentation, it is inclined to be under different rules. I have a bit of a background. I was clearing music and things for BMG for a number of years, so I know a bit about this area. And we worked with very good counsel, legal counsel. And so in looking for it, the feeling was that what we would be able to do quite easily if it was just a theatrical presentation that goes on to television, that we would have to respect some of those boundaries that are obviously there, and then work on ways that we could get around it, you know, but on the right side of the law. And to do it in the way that we did it and film in the way that we did on location got us around a lot of those issues. I'm sure your audience would be enormously bored if I went into too much detail. But by the same token, it's about being able to show and compare or show and analyze something, but in a particular way. And the rules on TV and film are quite different, you know, to a small, limited show. You know, it's. It's really about the way that you handle things. So we, you know, we had very good counsel on this as well. We do on all of our films, to negotiate that on the right side, you know, particularly as they affect the US and uk, which is slightly different to each other. So we have to kind of bear in mind that one set of law is slightly different to another. Some rules are slightly different. So you have to kind of go somewhere in the middle and choose a path that leads you in the right direction and gives you a result where, you know, we're not sitting in a jail or a Beatle jail.
- [21:25]
Robert Rodriguez
Is there anything specific you can mention that you were very lucky and happy to get to be able to use in the film or things that just eluded you that you really wanted in the film?
- [21:36]
Chris Purcell
No, not particularly. I think we chose things that we felt comfortable with because the context of the way they were shown was different and the way that was transposed to an audience is different. A very simple example, if Mark is talking in front of a massive rejection of a photograph, that is quite Difficult on the TV to justify, particularly if it's up for a number of minutes or time. If you are on location at the location with the photograph, which he's then holding in his hand and is just saying, this photograph is here, this location, and we are that location, then the context of the use of that is different.
- [22:21]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, which is one of the reasons we use that visual grammar of him talking to our sound recorders, by the way. So I didn't want to pop out all the time to rostrum camera shots of the particular thing that he was talking about. I wanted to keep it in the location space, A. Because I think it's more documentary style that way. And also you're popping in and out anyway because you're going back to the theater, so you don't want to be interrupting the stuff on location. But the other thing was, you know, this very practical thing that Simon's just articulated where, you know, if he's actually holding an image in his hand and he's in the context of the place, it's a very different scenario from a clearance point of view to having it. A rostrum camera, you know, creeping over it.
- [23:05]
Robert Rodriguez
That's amazing.
- [23:06]
Chris Purcell
Put projection behind you.
- [23:09]
Simon Weitzman
It just.
- [23:09]
Chris Purcell
When.
- [23:10]
Robert Rodriguez
When something is well executed, it looks easy. And what you guys are describing was a hell of a lot of hoops to jump through to get what we see, which is amazing.
- [23:18]
Simon Weitzman
But they were good hoops, because I think, you know, I don't know what you think, but I think the way it's worked out is really great. Really. I think it's just that the combination of theater and the location stuff and the way that the location stuff is woven through and the feel of that is all elevating the film in a way that if it wasn't there, you'd really miss it.
- [23:42]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, I'm a harder audience for this sort of thing, like a lot of people I know and talk to because we're such hardcore Beatle people. Well, I'm gonna go in this and I'm not gonna learn a dam because I know this already. That's one mindset you could have approaching it. But another mindset might be okay. As someone with a great deal of familiarity with a lot of this stuff, maybe I should sort of mentally lower the bar going in and am I entertained? Am I not bored? Am I looking at something from a different angle that I'm already all familiar with, but I hadn't thought of it in this context before? And on that level, it hits the marks just this past week Saw a man on the run on the big screen. The McCartney documentary.
- [24:22]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, me too.
- [24:22]
Robert Rodriguez
I thought it was terrific to tell such a complex story with so many moving parts. And I was watching some of the online comment about, well, I didn't learn anything here. Or of course, it's the authorized telling, so he's gonna put the best spin on himself. Or it's like most of life is calibrating your expectations as you go in the door. It's like, yeah, you're gonna trade access to the McCartney archive for probably at least some implicit control over the messaging. But would you rather not see it at all? Exchange for getting all the dirt that you believe is out there. So going in here, as somebody that I know, maybe not a lot of this will be new to me. But if it's told in an entertaining way, it keeps moving. And there were plenty of things along the way that, well, if I read that in Tune In, I must have forgotten that. So, okay, cool. Now I got a visual to go with it. That's great. So what I recognize the more I see, and we're living like this golden age of Beatle related films coming out, is that it is an incredibly challenging needle to thread if you are a filmmaker, to recognize who your audience is going to be, satisfy the hardcores are going to see everything and appeal to a general audience without being too much inside baseball, like, what are they talking about? Who's this person? Why is this important? That kind of thing. And great storytelling is great storytelling, even if the story is familiar. And I think that if you can hit that mark, you're doing great. That's what I see with this and something considerably more than a TED Talk. So good on you guys for recognizing.
- [25:51]
Simon Weitzman
That's lovely to hear. Yeah. I mean, it was always our plan to make it as broad as it could be, given the fact that it is, you know, pretty detailed. Again, you know, that was one of the thoughts we had in terms of the duration of the film, you know, the show. What would the show have been, Simon? About three hours?
- [26:10]
Chris Purcell
Well, it was meant to be two hours and was usually a bit between two and a half and three.
- [26:16]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, so it would have been. I mean, that's too long in my view for a film. There is a sweet spot for a film duration, and this is around about that kind of length, I think.
- [26:28]
Chris Purcell
I think one of the things that's important just to point out is that when we filmed it, I think he was there for two days and did three shows. It was just on those two days There was a rail strike in London and, you know, we. It was. Could have been completely disastrous. But people. This is how much I think people appreciate what Mark does, is that they got in by car. They got in by. I think there were a few buses running, but not many. And, you know, and they got in by bike and skateboard and helicopter. They all made it. And so he. This could have been a very difficult weekend for many reasons for him, but I think the draw of the fact he doesn't do many of these got people in the seats. And I think one of the things that was really interesting for me, looking around the room on those three things, is how invested that audience were. And as you were saying, Robert, is that some of the audience know it all, you know, they know everything that you know. And another people in the audience are still learning, you know, not always learning. So. And there was a quite a diverse range of age group as well, so a lot of younger people in that room as well.
- [27:51]
Robert Rodriguez
I was glad to see that in the opening moments, the various people describing what they're there for and what they're getting out of it and seeing a bit of diversity there.
- [27:59]
Simon Weitzman
And we were keen to show that because we want to make sure that people don't go away with the impression that, you know, everyone who's into the Beatles are our age and older. You know, that's not the case. And we were really keen to make sure that came across.
- [28:17]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, just. If you live in this world, you recognize they're making new Beatle fans every day. Simon, you'd mentioned you'd heard the Oliver Murray show. I had. Where at the very end of it, his toddler child comes in singing Yellow Submarine. Yeah, there is hope.
- [28:34]
Simon Weitzman
That was.
- [28:34]
Chris Purcell
I mean, again, you know, there is such a wide. I think this is the thing, like you, Robert and Chris, if you're creative, there's always something new to learn with the Beatles. And there's a code of living your life. I'm sure you found, Robert, when you go to the festivals, it's a safe place for people. It doesn't matter your age whether you have loads of money or no money like me, or if you have what political side of the fence you sit on, that goes out the window completely in these. In these festivals. It is not relevant. And we get back to not being divided, people, by politics. We get back to the meaning of life and so many lessons that are written into the Bible of the people.
- [29:28]
Robert Rodriguez
It's such an extraordinary thing. And I've had this discussion on the show with everybody from first gen fans to young people, very young people that they've picked up on the secular religion. I can't remember which one of you I was background for the show. Looking at other interviews and describing coming to the fest in Chicago and how welcoming you felt the environment walking in. And that's totally what it is for people who've never been to a fest or might be inclined to be dismissive of it as like something geeky and dorky for the fringe people. No, it's not. There's a reason that people come to it. It's like they're Christmas once a year where they get to see family that they otherwise not see the whole rest of the year. These are their people. You find your people there. And the Beatles, you think about their reach as a cultural phenomenon and for how long it's been running. It just seems like, as somebody had said on the show one time, they're a pocket of joy. No matter what you're facing, no matter what awful thing is going on in the. The Beatles always deliver, you know, now and then came at the right time. And it's been a series of things, whether it was in the 60s, Vietnam and civil rights, whatever. They are a balm, a tonic for the times.
- [30:40]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, that was just the phrase I was gonna use. A tonic. Yeah, yeah.
- [30:44]
Robert Rodriguez
As you guys did this, as you pointed out, the actual talk and the number of artifacts was well beyond the scope of this film. But you don't feel shortchanged watching this film. I would imagine there will be a certain number of us that it's like, okay, what else have you got? Is there more? Is there something you see, like on a Blu Ray edition as bonus material, you've got in your pocket that for those who want this to keep going, Is there more?
- [31:11]
Simon Weitzman
I've got to say, I mean, I have a view on this. Simon, you might have different thoughts, but, you know, part of what we do as filmmakers is curate stuff, you know, and like, I heard the Oliver Murray interview as well. I couldn't agree more with a lot of the stuff he was saying about, you know, the selections and choices that we make. And we make them with the intention of making that film as approachable and as interesting as it can possibly be. So while I was editing it, it was apparent to me that if you're making a film, you're making something that has a rhythm and a pace and the pace of a show is different, and particularly a show with an interval, because it was discussed that we would have a sort of Equivalent of an interval in the middle of the show of the film. And I was against that from the outset because that's irrelevant to an audience sitting at home. So Mark had paced the show in such a way that it would work in a theater context. The film is a different beast, so it was paced in a different way. So the bits that have gone, you're not missing anything. You are missing some detail about something. But if we put it in, it would have been to the detriment of the film, in my view.
- [32:24]
Robert Rodriguez
Sure.
- [32:24]
Simon Weitzman
And just adding it on the end, I mean, I don't know. I mean, it would be a different beast. How would you do that? It would have to be one camera angle, because there was one fixed camera from the back that was recording the whole thing. So I guess it could be that.
- [32:39]
Chris Purcell
But I think also that in the film it does show a number of the items that Mark owns. So, you know, you see the clock and that the tape that he plays in Whom Hole is artifacts that he owns. So in the film, you see quite a lot of the materials, things that he, as he said, he took a picture of secretly. Yeah, I mean, there's mostly a spread of things that he has collected over the years. So I think in that respect, that's probably all on the film. And that there is anything that is missing in terms of the other artifacts are not so personal to him. So we were conscious also of being able to show things that he had personally not just collected, but preserved.
- [33:32]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, that's a really good point. I'm glad you pointed that out because I know there's plenty of people watching, because one of the first thoughts on my head looking at the alarm clock is, how did he get this? Whose is this? And at some point, when you see the shots of what's clearly a personal archive, I'm going to assume it's his office. That with the staircase in the background, it's like this massive trove of everything you could possibly want to see. It's just an amazing thing. I mean, that's like a film unto itself.
- [34:02]
Chris Purcell
Him going through Bruce Wayne's Batcave.
- [34:06]
Simon Weitzman
Yes.
- [34:07]
Chris Purcell
In the Beetle world.
- [34:09]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, yeah, right, right. And who among us would not want to spend the day there? Yeah, absolutely. Was there anything that surprised you guys in the making of this? Now, clearly you attended the lectures, but maybe on the location shoots or in visiting his archive, something that. Wow, I didn't anticipate this. This is really cool. Glad we have this for the film.
- [34:28]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah.
- [34:28]
Robert Rodriguez
Any moments like that.
- [34:29]
Simon Weitzman
I've absolutely got a Moment like that, I've got a couple. But the one that stands out to me is that the tape in Hume hall dressing room. I mean, that was just nuts. I mean, that just felt like a really magical moment to me. And obviously I knew it was coming. We'd acquired a reel to reel to record it on and everything. But actually being there just brought that home so vividly. Being in that space decades later on such an auspicious day in history, or that's the wrong word.
- [35:01]
Robert Rodriguez
Well, it is
- [35:05]
Simon Weitzman
the day itself. I don't know if you know, but it was the darkest day of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Just happened to be. Yeah.
- [35:11]
Robert Rodriguez
Which I'm glad you guys pointed out in the film that for anybody watching this, in the stuff I do, I'm all about context. If you want added understanding of why this is important, this is what was going on. We were hanging on the sword of Damocles only happened to be nuclear at that moment that they're creating. I saw her standing there and optimistically giving their first interview, talking about this great career they're about to launch. Maybe not.
- [35:37]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, no, exactly. And, yeah, there's not a hint of that going on in that interview recording. It just sounds. There's something so innocent and tender about it somehow.
- [35:48]
Robert Rodriguez
I love that Mark is bookending his Beatle journey with that interview because, I don't know, you guys are probably fans enough of his work to know his first Beatle book, the Beatles live performances. There's a flexi of that in there. And it never occurred to me that he owned the tape and that's why he was able to put that in the book. It never even occurred to me till that moment in the film. And then even then, as somebody who now is well familiar with that interview, I'm like, cringing as he's putting it on the machine, thinking, oh, my God, what if it stretches? What if he destroys it before our eyes?
- [36:20]
Simon Weitzman
We all were.
- [36:21]
Chris Purcell
Believe me, that was a big moment.
- [36:24]
Simon Weitzman
And, you know, it was some machine that I'd acquired on ebay, which seemed to work. We tested it a bit, but the reliability of it wasn't guaranteed by any means. It was the right vintage for the tape, but thankfully the planets aligned and it worked fine. And it just. Yeah, that was a great moment. Really was.
- [36:45]
Robert Rodriguez
It's great when that stuff can happen and happen to perfection. Like what you're describing here. So many times we see anachronisms and things that's like, what are they using this 1970s recorder for 1962 or something like that. One of you I was reading has a recorder that's going to be used in the San Mendez film.
- [37:04]
Simon Weitzman
Well, I mean, it's kind of linked to that in a way. So, I mean, I've always liked quarter inch as a. As a format and I spotted this Brennan machine in a secondhand shop in the. And it was £15 or something, so it was definitely not going to stay there very much longer and managed to get this thing home. They weigh a ton, you know, that was about 50 kilos or something crazy. Maybe not that heavy, but really unbelievably heavy, given that it's supposedly a portable machine. And I had it all serviced and I cherished it for years and it just felt so evocative because I also knew from the Beefle books that I'd read that they seem to have lots of Brennels and other machines. Ferrographs as well, I believe. But Brennan's were mentioned a lot in interviews and then sure enough, you can see them in the photos of John's studio in this attic in Ascot. So it was just a nice thing to have and a nice thing to play old Beefle material on, you know, some seem to all go together. Anyway, it broke down a few years ago and just an obje dar after that, which was nice to look at but wouldn't do anything but forward wind. And I set my heart on a reevox see over my shoulder. And I thought I'd sell the Brennell on ebay for spares and repairs, but mentioned quite some detail that, you know, it was a Beetle machine in some ways. Anyway, it sold within a day and the lady who came around to pick it up, you know, I was intrigued why she was so eager to get it and asked her a bit about what she did and she said she worked in film. And they said, oh, that's interesting, I work in film. Do you want it for a documentary or something? And she said, no, no, I'm working on. I'm an art director on the Sam Mendes films. So it may very well be in the background of some of those shots in the movie, which is quite a thought.
- [39:05]
Robert Rodriguez
How unbelievably amazing. That is so cool.
- [39:08]
Simon Weitzman
That's lovely, isn't it?
- [39:09]
Chris Purcell
He will have Chris's name on it. Yeah.
- [39:12]
Simon Weitzman
How awesome.
- [39:13]
Robert Rodriguez
The closest thing I've got to anything like that is you see the Measles Brothers film of the Beatles when they come to America in 2-2-64.
- [39:20]
Chris Purcell
That is my favorite of all Beatle films. I've always tried to. In fact, one of the weird things about that is that in the Love Letter to the Beatles film that I did, which took as long as their career did to make, maybe achieved less. But what I loved about that film was the immediacy of the way it's filmed and the camera work and the fact that they did. They used available light most of the time and had to. And we're very lucky with that sound recordist. I mean, amazingly lucky. But there was always something in the back of my mind that I wanted A Love Letter to have, to evoke that kind of feel. I don't know if it does, but certainly parts of it do. But that for me, is the ultimate Beatle film, that film, because it captures not just the sheer size of what they were walking into, but also the confidence they had. And I thought one of the things I learned from that film was how confident George is. He's more confident in himself and where they're going in America than the other three. Yeah, he very much takes the center stage in a lot of scenes in that, and it's quite impressive how he kind of took that on. But the thing for me about that film was just like the chaos of organization that they went through. You know, this. You know, they just basically arrived and stuff happened, which I think is just amazing. The fact that the Maisels only knew, literally, almost when they were in the air, that they were one brother talking to the other, saying, are these guys any good? Should we do this? Is remarkable, but I think it's a bit of a. It's a bit of a masterpiece. And it's certainly the way it's filmed is way ahead of its time.
- [41:32]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, I concur with all of that. It's utterly amazing, isn't it?
- [41:36]
Robert Rodriguez
Do you see? I don't know this to be true, but I have to infer, because the connection seems so obvious, that Dick Lester must have screened the footage, because right on the heels of that he's making A Hard Day's Night. But a lot of it is that same sort of feel. The handheld camera going into limousine with them and the crowd footage and all that stuff, it's straight out of the Maisels brothers.
- [41:56]
Simon Weitzman
I think you're right, he must have done. But was it available in time for him to see?
- [42:02]
Robert Rodriguez
That's what I'm wondering, because I don't think it aired anywhere till months later after Hard Day's Night was in the can. But unless that was just what it was like to have a handheld camera around the Beatles, then, of course, they're Gonna overlap. Because that was their real. I don't know. But the flavor of it. Everything you describe, Simon, is exactly a lot of what you see in A Hard Day's Night.
- [42:21]
Simon Weitzman
Well, certainly those shots of them sitting on the back seat of the limousine straight from the Maisel film is replicated exactly, isn't it, in A Hard Day's Night. And it's hard to imagine that he hadn't seen it, but I'm just wondering if the timeline works. Mark'd know, of course.
- [42:39]
Robert Rodriguez
Yes, of course he would.
- [42:41]
Chris Purcell
There is a guy.
- [42:42]
Simon Weitzman
We hijacked your story. What's the measles gonna.
- [42:46]
Robert Rodriguez
Just what I was gonn is that you guys have seen it all. There's one part, I think they're in the back of the limos where you see them. They'd been gifted these portable transistor radios that look like Pepsi machines. I've got one of those.
- [42:57]
Simon Weitzman
That sounds awesome.
- [42:58]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah. It's just a cool little thing to. It's like, oh, you know, anybody that sees that knows exactly where they've seen it before and what it means.
- [43:04]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah. That makes me think of another idea I have for a film, actually, and that's the infrastructure and where we reached technologically when the Beatles broke and that those things just happened to line up so perfectly. I think there is a film in that, and I've been thinking about it and boring Simon with the idea for a while, but that whole, you know, the miniaturization of electronics, which enabled the transistor radio that you're describing, and for that to be mass produced in the kind of numbers that. That they were in the early 60s, was, you know, one of the things that enabled them to be as big as they were.
- [43:47]
Robert Rodriguez
Right. And made their music ubiquitous because everybody could bring it along with them everywhere. Yeah, exactly.
- [43:52]
Chris Purcell
Right.
- [43:53]
Robert Rodriguez
That's a really fascinating avenue to go down for. Sure.
- [43:56]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah. And obviously all the other aspects of that, you know, videotape was in its infancy. Satellite TV broadcasting was definitely in its infancy. And, you know, recording techniques, jet travel. There's a whole panoply of things, actually, which would be very interesting to explore through a sort of beastly lens. And also the fact that they were so drawn to the modernity of the States and modernity in general. You know, John with his magic, Alex, that feeds all into that, you know, his fascination for that. But before that, you know, the nothing books and which he. I think he bought five of and had in his house and was going to give them out as presents. But by the way, for people who don't know that that was just a weird sort of novelty box with randomly flashing neon lights on the front which you couldn't change the battery of apparently it was just sort of on all the time and then when the battery went, that was it. Love to know if one of those exists anywhere. But that would certainly feature in the film that still in my head I
- [45:02]
Robert Rodriguez
actually did a little research on that and apparently for all John's fascination with Magic Alex and that device that he seemingly thought Magic Alex came up with, they in fact go back to at least 1962.
- [45:14]
Simon Weitzman
That's right.
- [45:14]
Robert Rodriguez
It was a thing. I think it was called the something box. Right. Not the nothing box. It had the opposite name.
- [45:20]
Simon Weitzman
Ah, you may well be right. Yeah but it was Heimlicher Schleich. He bought it in New York, didn't he? From.
- [45:26]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, yeah, I think so. I can't remember if it's an avidon picture. High level photographer took a picture of John with it.
- [45:32]
Simon Weitzman
That's right.
- [45:33]
Robert Rodriguez
Have you seen that?
- [45:33]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, yeah. Which is fabulous. Yes.
- [45:36]
Chris Purcell
Yeah.
- [45:36]
Robert Rodriguez
Unbelievable. You'd mentioned the Love Letter to the Beatles film. Both of you guys together and independently have done a bunch of Beatle stuff. Chris, you had Scow's parents. Simon you did Love Letter to the Beatles. Chris o', Dell, the Tom Murray stuff. I had Tom Murray on the show back a while ago. One of the mad day out photographers. Talk about that a bit. Love Letters of Beatles I've not seen Full confession but now I'm interested because it's part of your guys background. What is that about for anybody listening? Doesn't know.
- [46:08]
Chris Purcell
I think it's. It kind of does what it says on the can. Robert. I felt when I was introduced, as I said to the fest that we were doing books at the time, writing books and we went to a fest. Myself and Paul Skellett went to a fest in Chicago. First one we were invited to. And we were petrified of what people would say to us about us and the fact we were the new kids on the block, all these kind of things. And that welcoming reception that we got where we were made to feel part of the tribe, part of the troop, you know it really activated something in my head. I come from a very small family, so we don't have many people in the family. So it for me created a family for me and I felt like I sort of belonged for once in a group of people. And then I looked around at what had been done filmatically about the, you know, the fans and how the Fans, what their parents, parties, you know, we're 60 years on from the start, you know, and more. And we are. And these fans keep the spirit alive all the time. And it's passed on from generation to generation. And the way that people utilize the music and the way that they do it verbatim, try and make it as close as they can to an original or take it in a different direction. Just fascinated, fascinated me. And the way that people have used it in their life to give them hope or to give them some courage to do something or belong. So that's really what the film is about, to be honest. It started off as a short film. I'd do it in a year. Chris can, you know, sort of a test, a test too. And it ended up taking in for a number of reasons, including Covid and numerous other problems, eight years to do. But I think it kind of, hopefully for a lot of fans is portrays this safe place that we live in. And if you're not part of that safe place, it shows you what it can be and what you're missing. And if you've been a part of it, it's. It kind of gives you that sort of comfort of knowing that we as fans have been a major part of keeping this all going. And that's really what the film was about. It was a lot of very hard work and a lot of head scratching to put it together. There's 200 and something hours of material, you know, and it comes down to a two hour film, you know, in the end. But, you know, there's a huge amount of material that's amazing and that I'm quite concerned or would like to see as part of an educational process or you know, an archive that is publicly available so that people can see a lot of what was there. Because there's so many things that didn't is, as Chris knows, things don't make the film just because the balance and what you have to make something that is going to appeal to a hardcore audience, a passive audience and a new audience. And I think, you know, it was interesting that Oliver was saying on the interview with you that he's very conscious of the fact that you have to balance this new audience or potential new audience with the hardcore audience and try and navigate a line that suits everyone. And that's, I think what we're all trying to do. You do it with your show, Robert. You know, you have this kaleidoscope of people that come on and who have varying different knowledge or aspect or views on the Beatles and It's curating those people, curating those stories and making sure that there's a balance, which of course you do every week or every time you put a show.
- [50:28]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, yeah.
- [50:29]
Robert Rodriguez
It's never ending and it's bottomless. And now I'm super fascinated to want to watch this film. I wanted to ask you, is there anything in there do you mentioned? Because this was another thing I found fascinating that maybe we can talk a little bit about is the dementia choir.
- [50:44]
Chris Purcell
Yeah, well, actually the film was kind of almost wrecked up before I started working, but the dementia quirk came about. So in my family, my dad's brother had a severe brain injury and was in a brain injury clinic for eight years. And my mum, my dad and myself used to go, I used to live nearby, so we used to go two or three times a week to help him with any cognitive things he could do. He was a music critic, opera classical music critic. And he couldn't really speak very much and he'd lost the inclination to listen to music. So we would occasionally bring, you know, like a choir or quartet into play, which he generally hated. Yeah, but there was a girl who had won the Junior Young Musician of the Year and she had a massive brain shunt and she was a pianist and she would sit and play a piano in the lounge at the center. And mostly my uncle would tell them to tell her to shut up. But eventually he noticed that she was playing some notes very slightly off. So he asked to be moved to the piano. And their entire relationship from that point was based through him putting his hands on her, hands on the keys to help her play better and understand what she'd done before the shunt. And this was a completely unique way of somebody having a relationship. And so I've always known that piano or music has a big part to play in any brain injury. And that includes dementia particularly, and also in Parkinson's as well, brain related illness. And so I got in touch with Vicki McClure, who's a well known actress over here and said that I'd like to bring the dementia quiet to the Cabin Club because there's something, and I don't know if there's anything scientific about it with Beatles music opens up something in people's minds that have a dementia that doesn't seem to happen with other music. And so we, we have now staged three of these concerts in November, which are just benefit concerts, but we film all of them and those have been going out to all the care homes around the country here. And the last lot went to 3,000 care homes onto their system where they can watch it and I've been in numerous care homes and brain injury clinics where having a piano and being able to play Beatles music or being able to play Beatles music with people singing seems to open up something that doesn't happen anywhere else and that means that I can have a conversation particularly with the dementia choir about their football match, soccer match on a Saturday they will say did you see the match? When this music is playing, by the way, when the music is playing they can have these conversations do you see the match? Do you see that goal? What do you think of that? When that music stops they can shut down quite amazingly and when they're on stage at the Cavern for one hour they are completely different Something opens up and it's a magical experience we're doing it again on November I think November 10th this year yeah, it's free so anyone who is in Liverpool at that time is free at the Cavern but it's extraordinary thing to watch and it's very. It just proves that there's another dimension to the Beatles legacy maybe they don't know about themselves.
- [54:38]
Simon Weitzman
Right.
- [54:38]
Robert Rodriguez
That Mark doesn't even know about to
- [54:41]
Chris Purcell
be fair the reason that's important that you brought that out, the reason that it exists in that week is because Mark wanted to have like a international Beatle day represented the contracts in 62 and then something around that and so we agreed that the best way to do that was to do something like the AD dementia choir so he basically introduces on because he's a very busy man so he does a two minute video that we show at the beginning of that which shows the relevance of why it happens in November and what. And the fact that it is a very positive day and a very inspiring day for people not only with the brain injury or with dementia but also for their families and friends it makes worthwhile so Mark's being very supportive of that and of being a part of it, you know, which is great just to.
- [55:44]
Simon Weitzman
Fantastic Simon it's the 9th of November, right? Yeah and is that the day that Brian Epstein first went to the cabin?
- [55:52]
Chris Purcell
I think it's something I can't remember
- [55:54]
Robert Rodriguez
that sounds right yeah, yeah, yeah so
- [55:57]
Chris Purcell
it has to be in that week we are given a day that the cabin can accommodate 50 people on stage but it's a wonderful tie in again from Mark's point of view it sort of shows that the music has survived all this time from 62 onwards and is still relevant to an audience particularly an audience where the music is essential for being able to express themselves or remember things that maybe they haven't for some time. One of the great things about that evening is, as you know, with dementia, is that there are different areas of the way that you can remember things. And of course, that memory is more geared to being long term than it is to being short term. But everyone that comes, the ones that return remember the previous year. They still remember it. And that's quite unique and quite an amazing feat. And again, I think it's to do with the fact that they're singing these songs that they know.
- [57:03]
Robert Rodriguez
It's an extraordinary thing that makes it seem like their music is way more magic than you even suspected.
- [57:08]
Chris Purcell
Yeah, totally. And if you're there on the night, it's just very moving and it's just an extraordinary experience. They have a small community interest company and we put doing one tomorrow morning. We get pianos given to us, or keyboards, but particularly pianos. People don't want pianos. And we put those into brain injury clinics to help with the musical side. And they always get used to play Beatles music.
- [57:38]
Robert Rodriguez
That's fantastic.
- [57:40]
Chris Purcell
Yeah.
- [57:40]
Robert Rodriguez
Chris, I wanted to ask you about. We talked about love letters to the Beatles. I wanted to talk about the Beatles and us.
- [57:47]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, well, that was a similarly long project, in a way. Well, it looked like it was going to be. So I had this idea of. As you mentioned earlier, my family are from Liverpool. Both parents were born and brought up in Liverpool. I wasn't, but I certainly went back there a lot because they were from huge, scarce families. My dad was one of 10 and my mum one of six. So lots of relatives. So I was there a lot growing up. And I think that had a big impact on my early appreciation of the Beatles, really, because that city, the fact that the Beatles came from there, you know, and it was a place that I knew for these personal reasons and, you know, associated with family parties in red brick terraced houses, you know, and huge family gatherings in quite a humble situation. Somehow it just added to the whole amazing nature of how big the Beatles became. And just the juxtaposition really, of this quite, you know, backward in some ways. City certainly in the 70s, because it was really suffering then. I should just give you a little bit of context. The city all revolved around the docks. There were nine miles of docks. And then containerisation was introduced in the early 70s and that decimated the docks and that as an industry.
- [59:10]
Robert Rodriguez
You're talking about the big steel train car?
- [59:13]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, yeah. Because that was all handled manually, you know, up until that point. That Started coming in in the late 60s probably and the early 70s and that just meant that there was colossal unemployment. So Liverpool really, really suffered that the positive sort of effect that the Beatles must have had and indeed the football teams because they were both rising to prominence around the time that the Beatles were. Was eclipsed by what was happening economically. But all of this to say that I thought there was a really interesting story there about the Beatles connection with the city and this sort of. Because they're so kind of synonymous with the place and yet there's all sorts of complex aspects to that relationship where they became uncool, you know, for a period. Hard to believe but if you were from Liverpool and you said you like the Beatles, you know, you could be quite ridiculed for that or worse.
- [60:06]
Robert Rodriguez
There's the famous thing is the rise of punk happens as a reaction to things in the youth culture in Britain in the 70s. Paul Matlock, your bass player, I don't think it's true per se but he was fired from the band because he admitted to liking the Beatles.
- [60:20]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, that's right. And this was the, you know, the setting in which the Cavern was knocked down for some spurious reason that turned out to be, you know, not true afterwards.
- [60:32]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, Subway, ventilation shaft or something.
- [60:34]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah. So I just found that all really fascinating and wasn't aware of a documentary that tackled that. So that was the notion that I had and because I go there quite a lot anyway I just started acquiring footage because you always. The commissioning process always requires a taster tape where you probably introduce an array of characters that are going to be in your film so the commissioning editor could. Could properly visualize what you had in mind. So I got a bit carried away really and ended up shooting loads and loads of footage at various international Beatle weeks over several years and just going there generally and talking to people. Which is how I met Simon because he became an interviewee and in fact I think is the last voice you hear in the film is Simon bizarrely because he said some very, very interesting things, had a very interesting take on. And I acquired all of this stuff and then I made some attempts to sell it to commissioners and had some limited interest. But then Covid struck suddenly, had nothing to do and thought well I'm sitting on all of this stuff, can I do something with it? Managed to fashion it into this 23 minute film which is very much set in the context of COVID because I suddenly thought well that's interesting too actually because the whole event, Liverpool's shut down, including the beetle industry as it's become known which you know employs like one in six people in Liverpool. I think that's the statistic.
- [62:02]
Robert Rodriguez
Wow.
- [62:02]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah. Isn't crazy. And I just thought all of that's really fascinating. The fact that they're all kind of. These places are all. Were kind of mothballed at the time and the city was deserted as all cities were around the world. That it was somehow peculiar that Liverpool was because of this Beetle Connection. And I just fashioned something that was very much set in the context of COVID So it's a bit of a time capsule really and obviously dates it. Hopefully you know people find that aspect of it intriguing because that it's bookended by Covid without wanting to spoil it. But basically that's how it starts and ends with the stuff that I'd filmed before that struck us in between. And actually that was the film that I'd finished and I met Tom McConnell who provides the fantastic music that runs through it which is all essentially played on a mellotron. Oh wow. Because we wanted something that was impressionistic, you know, not too on the nose beetle wise. Too many Beetle films that have in my view are Antom's have you know, Beatlesque music in which is really often very on the nose. I wanted something much more kind of impressionistic than that that would just allow the. Just give a feel but without guiding people too much. Yeah. Anyway.
- [63:23]
Robert Rodriguez
Wow. So you found somebody with an actual working melodrama.
- [63:26]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, I think he actually used plugins to be fair. But yeah, I don't think he owns one of those as much as he'd love to. One day.
- [63:35]
Robert Rodriguez
Uh huh.
- [63:35]
Simon Weitzman
He introduced us to. Or introduced me to Doug Schwab whose name came up earlier because the magic thing is Doug Schwab as well as running a very successful film distribution company is also a massive Beetlehead and Beetle collector and had this passion to start a spin off of his main business which is Maverick and form this business Livable where which was initially the idea if that was to release Beatle documentary or certainly music and arts related documentary that just happened to coincide with when I finished this film. So Beatles and Us was the first title that they put out which was a huge honor for me because it's a funny piece. You know it's a 23 minute film which is short for most people who are into things. But yeah. So that is available too through Liverpool West. Anyone want to have a look at that?
- [64:32]
Robert Rodriguez
For sure.
- [64:33]
Simon Weitzman
Other weird things. I mean I have done slightly weird things on the Beatles. I'VE always been very aware of the fact that it's very well trodden territory. So the latest piece was an AI generated idea featuring a mouse's perspective of the first televised appearance of the Beatles at the Cavern.
- [64:56]
Robert Rodriguez
It's a callback to Bruce McMause.
- [64:58]
Simon Weitzman
Well, in a way, but a bit more photoreal than that. Yes.
- [65:02]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay.
- [65:02]
Simon Weitzman
I must admit that didn't occur to me until I finished it. But yeah, in a way it is.
- [65:08]
Robert Rodriguez
It's all of a piece.
- [65:09]
Simon Weitzman
It's all of a piece. And the other one that people. Some people know me for a bit was a short piece I did on Abbey Road, Zebra crossing with Roger McGough, the Beatle contemporary poet who was in Scaffold. Yeah, exactly. So that's like a poetic sort of meditation on the weirdness of Abbey Road and zebra crossing the crosswalk. That's been kind of suffused with Beetle magic for over half a century.
- [65:37]
Robert Rodriguez
Yes. Why don't we do it in the Road?
- [65:38]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah.
- [65:39]
Chris Purcell
I'd just like to say on that. Is that because I'm a huge fan of Chris's work.
- [65:44]
Simon Weitzman
Oh, thank you.
- [65:45]
Chris Purcell
The particular film is anyone is young and watching how to make a short film and use their shots very creatively and frame really beautifully, then that's a really great film for young people who have an aspiration in film to watch because I think it's beautifully made little film.
- [66:05]
Simon Weitzman
It's very kind. Thanks. I think that when you're making something on the Beatles, I think it does, certainly for me, I really try as hard as I can because it really feels like they're a hell of a thing to be making a film about. And, you know, you've got to get your best.
- [66:21]
Chris Purcell
You know, to be fair to anyone out there who's interested in filmmaking, it's in a way, whatever you can get your hands on to make things. And I think one of the things just to bookend what Chris has said is that Doug Schwab is a massive Beetlehead. And I think from our point of view as small independent filmmakers, I'd be quite small. Chris is 6. But I think from that perspective that one of the great things that Doug has done with Liverpool west is give people like us a chance to make these things and to share them with our fellow fans like yourself, Robert, and people around the world. It's as much a legacy thing that they've done as anyone else does if they write a book or make a film. So giving up a platform to creators to make things, whether they be documentary or a Drama or whatever is huge. So hats off to them.
- [67:18]
Simon Weitzman
Absolutely.
- [67:18]
Chris Purcell
Second, all of that again, without them, we wouldn't be talking about Evolva62. So. Yeah, yeah.
- [67:25]
Robert Rodriguez
So where are you guys going from here?
- [67:27]
Chris Purcell
Well, I wanted to say one thing, just to pick up on one thing, Robert, that I know that a lot of people say. I read a lot of the comments that come through when people put them through. I'm previously and have been an author myself on numerous books. Nothing like the depth of what Mark does, but I know how difficult they are to do. And I think one of the things I would like to say is that a lot of people saying, well, you know, it's taken X years for volume two to come out. And one of the things I think people have to understand is that what Mark does is unique, completely unique in what we all do. And also, if you were doing this on a normal basis, you would have a production team like most people would have. So you'd have editors, you'd have researchers, you'd have all sorts of different people doing all these jobs. Mark does all of this on his own, you know, and I think that's one of the things that people have to understand is if you could clone mark and make 10 marks, then of course these things would come out a lot quicker. But he's one person spinning 20 plates all the time. And not only does he have to spin the plates, he has to make sure they don't fall off or something breaks and it's wrong. So his diligence and dedication to what he does means that these things take a long time. And I think people who maybe think that it's an easy thing to do or what he does maybe need to remember that it's one person doing 10 jobs. And we know that when it comes out, it's going to be brilliant. But I think that's the thing that people. People just need to remember that it takes years to put these things together and also make sure that they're correct. So, yeah, it will come. I'm looking forward to it as much as anyone else. But I know that he doesn't just sit there for a year looking out the window. Well, maybe it might.
- [69:26]
Simon Weitzman
Well, in a way, the film Evolver gives you a glimpse of. Of the rigor of that process. You know, you see where he works. You know, it's absolutely bedecked with research material which the film gives you, as I say, a sort of glimpse of. And that's a real privilege to have seen, but it was also a privilege to Capture some of that process on camera.
- [69:48]
Robert Rodriguez
It really is pretty implicit in the film that in order to share these discoveries he makes, he makes reference to the libraries, the archives, the files and just what we mentioned before, the covertly taking a picture of these docs that otherwise we wouldn't have access to. You don't have a team, you're one man show. It's going to take as long as it is taking. Yeah.
- [70:08]
Chris Purcell
And I think that's the point I was trying to make is that we know it's going to be really good when it comes and it won't, it won't be that long. But it's just. This is one man's life's work.
- [70:21]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, sure.
- [70:22]
Simon Weitzman
And when, when we see him on location in the film, you know, that's kind of a, a microcosm of what he's done as well because he's been to all of these places and he's spoken to the people there and he's compared the photographic evidence that he has with what the scene is like now. And you know, he's absolutely been, you know, so rigorous and thorough about it, like a beetle detective would be.
- [70:45]
Robert Rodriguez
Right. And if you're history minded at all, that stuff is absolutely fascinating. The before and after, so many things. There was a book I read when I was a kid in the 70s that somebody had done where they revisited Civil War battlefields and took all those Matthew Brady, Alexander Gardner photos and lined up with surveyor's tools where they were photographed, what he was looking at and what they look like now. And now that book is 50 plus years old. So it's changed even more since then. But to your point, these Beatle locations where they still exist. And again, that moment with the, the tape recorder in that interview back room where there's the doorway, it doesn't have the exit sign anymore. Just amazing. I don't want to give away too much for anybody who hasn't watched it yet, but the residence you guys got access to.
- [71:32]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah.
- [71:32]
Robert Rodriguez
Occupied by a musician. Now that was really cool.
- [71:35]
Chris Purcell
Yeah. That was somebody that Mark knew and had a good relationship with. So we were able to go and utilize that. And I think the young musician who lives there learned a lot in that hour or so that we were there. So it's really fascinating to be in places like that. For me, Hume hall was, as Chris said, is a remarkable place because it's very parochial.
- [72:00]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah.
- [72:02]
Chris Purcell
And it has a very distinctive charm. It's big, but it's small. And then you visualize that in late 1962 and then 64, they're playing in stadiums where people can't hear them, you know.
- [72:17]
Robert Rodriguez
Right.
- [72:17]
Chris Purcell
And they've gone from few hundred people, but packed into a space to tens of thousands. And you stand there in that place and you're thinking, this is a really charming space. They would have been elated to play at the time. And yet, well, within two years they're in America playing these enormous stadiums. And I think, you know, what, with the exception of one or two bands, maybe U2 or somebody like that was a more contemporary example of that elevation between playing small venues and massive stadiums, there probably isn't anything like that, you
- [72:54]
Simon Weitzman
know, and we're so lucky because, you know, Liverpool, there are a good number of places. I mean, a lot have gone, obviously, but there are a good number of places that are very similar. And you can really pick picture how it would have been. And, you know, I encourage anyone to go and seek them out for themselves because you do get a feeling that, you know, God, they once walked these streets, you know, with all of these ordinary people carrying loaves of bread and going about their business. It's just something magical about it. And that's a magic that I've always felt, by the way, even though I'm biased because my parents come from there. But I think some of that comes across in the film. And you get it even more if you go.
- [73:38]
Robert Rodriguez
Sure, yeah, absolutely. There's something about picking up the atmosphere of these places that are loaded with so much history. And oftentimes I find when I go to a place that I've read about for years and years, they seem so much smaller when I'm actually there because I pictured them so much bigger. But you will definitely pick up something that will stay with you that just sort of adds another element to whatever it is you thought you understood about that time and place to that point. So, yeah, there's no substitute for travel, for sure.
- [74:09]
Chris Purcell
But at least with the film we can bring Mark's theater play in London to audiences around the world that obviously didn't get a chance.
- [74:18]
Robert Rodriguez
That's huge. Absolutely. Sharing that experience and not just what it was like to sit in one of those seats, but also to take these walks. And as you guys described, the thoughtfulness in the approach of. Rather than him being his own talking head, him relating it conversationally to the guy holding the mic or the camera is a wonderful way to tell the story.
- [74:38]
Simon Weitzman
I'm so glad you're saying that, Robert, because it felt like a slightly funny decision at the time, but I'm Glad we did it. We have had some comments from some people saying, you know, who's the bloke with the mic? What's he in it for? You know, like we'd made a mistake, but no, he had to relate it to someone. I think that was really important.
- [74:57]
Chris Purcell
I mean, Paul is now doing his own convention, he's got his own show.
- [75:03]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, it's a really nice touch and it's something, again, if you're very, very familiar with the story and you're taking in another telling of it, it's little touches like that that you've not seen before that make it compelling and interesting.
- [75:17]
Simon Weitzman
Great. And hopefully you're saying all the right things.
- [75:20]
Robert Rodriguez
I'm a charmer. So is there a place you guys are going to? Another project on the boards need be Beatle related, but what's next for you guys?
- [75:30]
Chris Purcell
Well, on my side, and Chris was helpful on this, I've been putting a little thing together about the history of Beetle Week in Liverpool. So that's a small project. And then I've also been working with Shannon McDonald, who is the artist? People that maybe don't know she's a airbrush artist, but she's known within the circle as the world's number one Beatles artist. And she says in the film, who had the. The title before? Which is kind of amusing, but she's an extraordinary artist and I think she is kind of the, you know, she's. She has a skill that you don't believe until you see it. So one of the things that's quite nice about the film is you see her do something from complete scratch with a blank cam to the fruition of this painting. And her work is Norman Rockwell esque. You know, it has a beauty to it, but it's also kind of photorealistic. I went into that knowing her very well, not knowing her story. This is nice, but it's just about a girl who's brilliant at art and then her life story is just extraordinary. Her life story is something that is both. Well, a lot of shocking things have happened to her, but the catalyst to make that film was that her artwork, her main art, was taken to Maui in Hawaii, to a major gallery. And this is her life's work. And of course they had the fire and she lost all of her life's work. At which point, as a filmmaker, you sort of think, well, this is a point where the film needs to be made because it's about how the film is really about how somebody not only recovers from the loss of all of Their work, but also from the loss of various things along their life, you know, which comes out. It started off as a maybe something very small. And I think it's quite an important film for a number of reasons. So that will be one or two things away from the Beatles. My mentor in life is a guy called Alan Dean Foster, and Alan I've known since I was 15. And Alan basically was the ghostwriter for Star Wars. So he was George's ghostwriter. And he also was the ghostwriter for Alien. He worked on Chronicles of Riddick, and he wrote the storyline for the Star Trek motion picture film. He worked with Clint Eastwood on Pale Rider and numerous other things as well. So I've been sort of documenting parts of his life over the last four years. And the usual thing that we come up against, which is you get to a certain point and then you think, oh, gosh, I'm gonna have to either rob a bank or somebody who's interested will come forward to help us complete the Japan. But so a few things and then just basically just gardening and doing people's gardens. Something I love doing as my escape from the world, is basically renovating gardens. That was my passion.
- [78:30]
Robert Rodriguez
There's a film, Friar Park.
- [78:32]
Simon Weitzman
Funny you should say that.
- [78:33]
Chris Purcell
Well, then I will hand you over back to Chris.
- [78:36]
Simon Weitzman
Do you think we can?
- [78:37]
Chris Purcell
Why not? Okay, why not? Somebody may listen.
- [78:42]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, well, no, it's funny you should say that because. Let's see. I'll tell you the short version because I'll go on too long otherwise. But I had a friend a few years ago who was a music video director who worked with George Harrison, who had the strange stage name Willy Smacks and did a lot of music videos. And I made a little film about him himself because he fascinated Chap who was a real artist in Super 8, actually, and a fine artist, but did some wonderful stuff in the 70s which attracted the eye of Annie Lennox and people like that. People he's worked with are amazing. Anyway, he was asked on the back of. Because he made one of the Wilbree's videos and was after George died, he was asked by Olivia to make a film about Friar Park. But he'd retired by then. He was actually working on his memoir. But that was around the time that I met him and we were working together. And I was saying, gosh, you know, is this something we could pick up together? You know, give him a right arm to work on that. That just sounds fantastic. So he approached Olivia again and we got this really tantalizing reply saying that, you know, she was interested in this and, you know, we should talk to her about it. And then like lots of these things, it just sort of. She was uncontactable after that for some reason. So it just sort of went away. But it's always been in the back of my mind as something that could be reignited. And I saw a YouTube video featuring Danny talking about some plans for. I think it was an art centre that they're thinking of creating in the grounds of Friar Park. I just thought, well, maybe, you know, the time is right to revisit this. I wrote a treatment about creating a film, a sort of art piece about. About the film, which we, then Simon and I decided probably worked better as some kind of installation because it was celebrating the artistry of the grounds themselves and doing a sort of year in the life and making that a kind of microcosm of George's life somehow. And on this sort of oasis of calm, you know, juxtaposing it with the craziness that he'd been through. And it was going to be like a visual poem of some kind. So that's kind of been written up and a little film has been made. But whether that will ever come to fruition, I've probably got a few of those, you know, that simmer in the background and may one day turn into something. But.
- [81:17]
Robert Rodriguez
Well, if you have your foot in the door with the Harrison Estate, that's something. That's a leg up.
- [81:21]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah.
- [81:22]
Robert Rodriguez
And I'm sure you have your own vision for it, but the Harrison Estate has alluded to there being mountains and mountains of George tape that no one's ever heard. And what a lovely vehicle that would be for something. George's music as you're doing this art piece on his garden. His. His other passion.
- [81:38]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that. It could be fantastic.
- [81:42]
Chris Purcell
Yeah. I've bought a long nose trowel for it specifically.
- [81:48]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah. Simon wants to be involved, practically. Wow.
- [81:52]
Chris Purcell
We'll do better.
- [81:53]
Simon Weitzman
Just one question I'd like to ask. I'm sure it's the question everyone's asking there. I like your impressions on first appearance on television. Well, you know, strangely enough, we thought we were going to be dead nervous and everyone said you suddenly when you see the cameras, you realize that there were 2 million people watching because there were 2 million watching people in places that we did, we heard afterwards. But you know, strangely, if it didn't, you know, it didn't come to us. We didn't think at all about that. And it was much easier doing the television than it was doing the radio. It's still nerve wracking, but it was a little bit easier than doing radio because there was a full audience for the radio broadcast. Do you find it nerve wracking doing this now?
- [82:35]
Chris Purcell
Yeah.
- [82:35]
Simon Weitzman
Yeah.
- [82:39]
Robert Rodriguez
Something about the Beatles Created and hosted by Robert Rodriguez, executive producer Rick Way, title song performed by the Cornys. Something about the Beatles is an evergreen podcast.
- [83:41]
Chris Purcell
Ship early. Holly, don't go.
- [84:17]
Simon Weitzman
It's really nice of you to.