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- [00:00]
Robert Rodriguez
This podcast is brought to you in part by Magical Mystery Camp. Coming to Big Indian New York, just two and a half hours from New York City the week of Paul McCartney's 84th birthday, June 16th through the 19th. Featuring a number of special guests including the Fab Foe, as well as singer, songwriter, musicians Martin Sexton, Gail ann Dorsey, Cindy Cash Dollar and more. For more information, check out magical mysterycamp.com something when you think about businesses that are selling through the roof, like Skims or Allbirds, sure you think about a great product, a cool brand and great marketing. But an often overlooked secret is actually the businesses behind the business. Making, selling and for shoppers, buying simple. For millions of businesses, that business is Shopify. It's home of shop pay, the number one checkout in the world. You can use it to boost conversions up to 50%, meaning way less carts going abandoned and way more sales going through. To checkout, upgrade your business and get the same checkout Allbirds uses. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com income all lowercase go to shopify.com income to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com income income now.
- [01:32]
Bruce Sugar
I wrote the song and gave it to George Harrison and he was producing me at the time and he had this idea that it should have this drum pattern. I still find that difficult to play. So to make him happy, I played a snare situation with the same sort of feel, which, And it just was one of those moments in the studio when you know, the other players and myself, we were doing this, putting it down, it was like, wow, that really works.
- [02:32]
Robert Rodriguez
Hello and welcome to Sat B. Something about the Beatles podcast number 324. And this is my conversation with engineer and producer and musician Bruce Sugar, who, if the name is not familiar to you, he's kind of a low key guy, yet has done some astonishing amazing work since 2003 on every record, every release Ringo has done in that time, starting with Ringo Rama, running all the way through Long Long Road and Look up before that and everything in between. So he's had an incredibly prolific time working with Ringo, which is something. And everybody that Ringo's worked with because he's been part of those projects, which includes Ringo's contributions now and then. And Bruce was on hand when Paul and Ringo were in the studio working on that track in 2023, I guess is when it came out. So whatever the session was for that, that's a long time when you think about the Beatles recording career being 62 to 69, seven years. So this is almost triple that, or maybe it is triple that. But in any event, Bruce has been there and he's worked with other artists as well, including Ozzy Osbourne. But he's somebody that. I had never heard his name before, and I must have read it looking at the credits, but I hadn't really thought about him because he's not a guy that pushes himself. He's not like one of these known guys that you hear his name come up in conversation or interviews or articles or things like that. Not too often he's been out there, but not a lot. All this to say I thought he'd be a great guy to talk to, because he's somebody that I guess hasn't really been asked about this stuff before. And like so many other people, his career was sort of impacted as a child, watching the Beatles on the Ed Sullivan show and overnight, suddenly it gave him a direction and an ideal and something to aim for. And one of these things, as with so many other people, Tom Petty comes to mind, somebody that watched that broadcast and on down the road, after a life of making music and working with musicians, suddenly he finds himself working with a beetle. So there is that. Anyway, I'll get out of the way and let him do the talking. Just as one point of clarity, there was one point in the conversation because we talked about him. He started out doing live mobile stuff, and it occurred to me that I remember Ringo had done that Storytellers thing that was on VH1, but in my mind, when I was asking him about it, it was sort of conflated with a soundstage that Ringo did. And even now I haven't looked it up. Somebody will know, I'm sure. Tom Frangion, probably that one, maybe. Both events were recorded up the road from me in Waukegan, Illinois. In fact, the town I went to college in, at the Genesee Theater there. And I was conflating them when I asked him about that, because I guess one of them preceded his working with Ringo and the other one didn't. So he worked on one of those. But in my mind it was a release put out as an album. And I guess one of them was, but the other was a TV special. And anyway, it was. It was live things, so that's really what was confusing me. In my head, I forgot that they were two separate things. But anyway, you'll hear that part when it comes up. This podcast is sponsored by Magical Mystery Camp, coming the week of June 16, 2026, in upstate New York. Big Indian, to be precise, hosted by the Fab Foe and also by Distrokid, whom you can get a 30% off the annual membership by going to distrokid.com VIP satb. And now on with my conversation with Bruce Sugar. Is it weird for you to have been working with Ringo longer than George Martin?
- [06:34]
Bruce Sugar
Did you? I've never really thought about that. I know I've probably recorded him more than anyone, but I've never thought about that part of it.
- [06:44]
Robert Rodriguez
When I saw how far back you went, I was like, wow, that's amazing. So to start at the start, tell me the origins of your fandom in terms of. Were you one of the kids that saw them on the Ed Solomon Show? Were you a Beatles fan before they landed here? Were you a music fan? How did that all begin for you?
- [07:04]
Bruce Sugar
Well, I mean, their first performance on Ed Sullivan, I think I was six or seven, something like that. Uh huh. And you know, I mean it definitely, you know, resonated with kids my age. You know, I remember going back to school the next day and everyone's talking about that new group coming out. And from there, you know, I was just a fan of the Beatles after that.
- [07:26]
Robert Rodriguez
You already were musical because your parents were giving you piano lessons, correct?
- [07:31]
Bruce Sugar
I grew up with a nice baby grand piano in the house and I took piano lessons. But after I saw the Beatles and saw what they were doing, I took up drums, believe it or not.
- [07:43]
Robert Rodriguez
So you gravitated toward what Ringo was doing on the basis of seeing them performing?
- [07:47]
Bruce Sugar
I did, you know, so it was really surreal that. I don't know, what, 40 years later or something like that, I'm at his house in England recording him, you know, so it's one of those things that your dreams can't come true. And if you work hard and get the right breaks, you know, you never know what could happen.
- [08:04]
Robert Rodriguez
That's just an amazing thing to essentially have your life trajectory. You could point to the evening that it happened, February 9, 1964, and now it's all this.
- [08:15]
Bruce Sugar
I know, I know, it's crazy, amazing. It's been such a blessing to work with him and the people I've met through him and the networking and just, you know, he's the greatest boss in the world, you know, he's just really a great human being and, you know, does things for the right reason and, and is always positive and I've got to meet and work with all kinds of incredible people through his connections.
- [08:41]
Robert Rodriguez
So from being that 6, 7 year old, seeing them on the Solomon show and becoming a Beatle fan, you found when you finally actually connected, that the perception you'd formed in your head did not disappoint?
- [08:54]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, I mean, I was impressed because I've worked with Paul as well, you know, I'm just impressed how humble and how human they are. All the trappings of success. You don't really notice that with them, which is unusual in this business. I would suspect a lot of people with that much success have attitudes and egos and all that. I've never seen any of that with them.
- [09:18]
Robert Rodriguez
So to go back to your own musical journey, you switched from playing piano to drums after seeing the Beatles and becoming inspired. Did that get you into groups? Did you, as a kid start playing Beatle tunes and try to pick up drumming from Ringo, watching him and listening to him?
- [09:36]
Bruce Sugar
Well, you know, I was listening to the what. What pop music was during that era, you know, and, I mean, they dominated it. So I definitely was influenced by them. But, yeah, no, I played in bands through junior high and high school. I think in high school I started getting more serious about the piano again, because, you know, as a kid I took lessons and, you know, read and did the classical thing. And I was becoming more independent musically and doing a lot more stuff by ear and just trying to work out stuff from the radio and stuff. So at some point I filtered back into piano and drums, you know, but it was definitely drums. Drums were definitely inspired by Ringo and the Beatles.
- [10:22]
Robert Rodriguez
When you say it was becoming more of an individualized thing, do you mean that you were sort of pivoting away from being in a group situation toward maybe session work or a solo artist?
- [10:33]
Bruce Sugar
No, I didn't even know about that. I mean, when I was in high school, I'd never been in a recording studio. I didn't even know they existed. You know, I mean, I didn't really get introduced to the recording world till I was in college, where a good friend of mine decided to build a mobile recording studio, and I helped him. And that was my. I think my junior year of college in Colorado. Went to the University of Colorado, and that was my foray into recording. And I helped him build that mobile truck. And we ended up recording a bunch of shows in Colorado. At Red Rocks was one of the first shows we did. You know, I was just an assistant, you know, rolling up cables and stuff. But after I graduated college, my friend decided to move his mobile operation to Nashville, and he invited me to come with him. Although at the time I was working for the city of Boulder. I have a degree in Environmental conservation and city planning. And I was working for the planning department in Boulder, and they offered me a job and they said, you know, take off the summer and then come back in September and we'll give you a job. And anyway, I went to Nashville that summer to work with a mobile truck. It took and never came back. Never returned to Boulder and ran away and joined the circus, I guess.
- [12:02]
Robert Rodriguez
Right. So when you talk about a mobile truck, I'm picturing like the Rolling Stones mobile unit or Ronnie Lane's. So was this basically set up to capture performances? Live performances?
- [12:14]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, we were doing live recording. We did a lot of stuff for. I don't know if you remember, the King Biscuit Flower Hour. There was. Oh, yeah, there was a bunch of live radio shows that were going on at that time, and we recorded a couple albums, mainly radio shows and TV stuff. But we did. Did a couple albums and, you know, it was a good learning experience. And to this day, I really enjoy recording live shows, you know, although the process has changed a lot because everyone just runs parallel lines into pro tools and they don't really need a separate recording truck, mainly.
- [12:53]
Robert Rodriguez
So when you're recording this live stuff for radio, was it basically acts that passed through Nashville or were you guys going around to wherever the job took you?
- [13:03]
Bruce Sugar
We were going all over the south, basically. Well, even Chicago we went to. But it was, you know, it was big country stars. Hank Williams Jr. We work with. And I'm trying to think some of the big artists work with. There was a bunch of them. We did, you know, mainly Waylon Jennings. We did work with Waylon once, and people like that. Yeah, I forget all the different acts we work with. There was Merle Hager, I think we did a show with, you know, that was my really foray into country music because, you know, I grew up on the east coast of New Jersey, so I wasn't really a country music fan, you know, other than the watch the occasional hee haw. It was on tv. But that was my foray into country music. I lived in Nashville for five years before I decided to move out to Los Angeles in 1985.
- [13:56]
Robert Rodriguez
So it's interesting that the origins of you as a engineer started in country music, and now here you are, however many years on Ringo, recording a pair of country albums.
- [14:07]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, well, yeah, it's ironic, you know, it's weird because I. I started doing all those country radio shows and eventually that company I was working for decided to hang it up. So they went out of business and I went to work with a Studio in Nashville called Quadraphonic, which was a. They were kind of a rock and roll hub because they had done a bunch of pop prod. They did Neil Young and they did Jimmy Buffett, and I think John Baez did some stuff there. So there was. It wasn't really a. It was kind of the one pop oasis in Nashville. So I got to work in that. And that's really where I learned my craft at that place at Quadraphonic, because I was working under some real good engineers, and that was kind of my training, you know. But luckily I was on salary as well. That's a thing. That's changed a lot, too. Now everyone goes to these music schools, and I don't know if there's even that many positions open for the amount of people that graduate those colleges, you know. Sure.
- [15:13]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah. A lot has changed.
- [15:15]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah.
- [15:15]
Robert Rodriguez
And it seems like you were learning a lot of your craft on the job.
- [15:19]
Bruce Sugar
Well, that's the way it was done, you know, back then. It was until, you know, probably about 20 years ago.
- [15:25]
Robert Rodriguez
So when you were working with these. These other. These rock artists rather than country, was that also working a mobile unit or were these studio recordings?
- [15:34]
Bruce Sugar
This was all studio stuff.
- [15:35]
Robert Rodriguez
Oh, okay.
- [15:36]
Bruce Sugar
And I was fortunate because I was. This studio had a publishing company, so I was hired by the publishing company, and I was actually producing and engineering their demos, which was great practice for, you know, the real thing. You know, it was there. They were all demos we were doing. We do, like, seven, eight songs a day, you know, so you had to be really quick. You had to know what you were doing. And it's ironic because, you know, back then, the demo business in Nashville is a really big business. And now, believe it or not, a lot of that demo business is being replaced by AI. Oh, geez. The publishers. Yeah, the publishers are just saying, you know, write your song, put it in SUNO or some AI program, and we'll spit out a demo for nothing. Oh, boy. Yeah, it's coming. AI is coming big. Oh, God.
- [16:28]
Robert Rodriguez
Well, to get back to something more pleasant, when you're talking about, you are producing these demos for publishers.
- [16:33]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah.
- [16:34]
Robert Rodriguez
Were you producing, like, ensembles to make these demos, or was it like one guy each track? You know, now I'm going to lay down the bass. Now they drum.
- [16:41]
Bruce Sugar
No, the way it worked. The way it worked back then, it was a band was hired. You know, different people hired different bands. And usually it was, you know, some of the top session guys. I remember when Vince Gill moved to Nashville, he was doing sessions. We were paying him like 25 bucks to do, you know, a session anyway, there'd be a band, right? So there'd be like five or six players. And then different writers would come in at different times. They'd sit down, they'd play the band the song, they'd write out their own charts, and then we'd go out and play it once or twice and that would be it, you know, and then the guy would sing it and they'd move on to the next. You know, we do, you know, we'd do like seven, eight songs like that. Wow. And that was the way Nashville worked for a long time. I got to meet a lot of writers and musicians and it was really the start of my recording career, even though I had previously worked on the mobile truck. But that wasn't as intense as far as in studio.
- [17:41]
Robert Rodriguez
You know, I would think that given such an assembly line process, that there'd be a lot more material generated than actually would become a hit song. Is that accurate?
- [17:54]
Bruce Sugar
Some of them were. You know, it was like there wasn't that many. Probably one out of 20 songs you'd hear on the radio in six months, you know, that type of thing.
- [18:03]
Robert Rodriguez
Was it something that you could tell when a demo was being laid down? It's like, ah, I hear a hit here and it would pan out that
- [18:09]
Bruce Sugar
way a couple times. I've done it a couple times, but you never know, you know, I mean, I was just learning about Nashville at that time and. But yeah, we definitely did a few that became hits, but, you know, minor hits. Some of them. Some of them are bigger. I don't know if that process even exists anymore. In Nashville, people pitch songs to artists. I think the artists at some point figured out that a lot of money was in publishing and they ended up wanting to be writers on everything. Yeah, for sure.
- [18:39]
Robert Rodriguez
So at what point you're out on the west coast now? At what point did you connect with Ringo initially?
- [18:46]
Bruce Sugar
Well, I moved here in 1985 and I was doing a lot of work for a studio called Baby O. They were the first people to hire me and they were owned by a few people from Mexico. Actually, the one of the owners was the president of Mexico's son.
- [19:04]
Robert Rodriguez
Wow.
- [19:04]
Bruce Sugar
And, yeah, so I was working on a lot of Latin projects at the time, and then I did some New Age stuff. Baby O was the first studio that hired me out here, So I made a lot of connections through them. And subsequently I was doing a lot of Latin projects. I was doing jingles, I was doing just different projects that come into the
- [19:27]
Robert Rodriguez
Studio, TV and film work as well.
- [19:29]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, we did a little TV, mainly jingles, but some film. And then in 2000, I think it was three, a friend of mine called me up. He was friends with Mark Hudson. I don't know if you know, I'm sure you know Mark.
- [19:44]
Robert Rodriguez
Oh, yes, sure.
- [19:45]
Bruce Sugar
And anyway, this friend of mine was a friend of Mark's, and he called me up, he said, you know, Mark Hudson is producing Ringo, and his engineer had to go out of town or he needed an engineer for a couple days, you know. So anyway, I called him up and, yeah, come on over. And I thought it was like. It was for the Ring O Rama album.
- [20:08]
Robert Rodriguez
Oh, yeah.
- [20:09]
Bruce Sugar
And that was my first stuff I worked on. And I thought it was just for like a week and then this other guy would come back, but he never did, you know. And here I am 20 some years later, wow. Still doing it. So. Yeah, you never know, you know.
- [20:27]
Robert Rodriguez
Did you know when you got that phone call who you'd be working for with Mark?
- [20:31]
Bruce Sugar
No, I did. Okay, I did know.
- [20:33]
Robert Rodriguez
So that was, like, mind blowing when you recognized this is the guy that inspired me to take up drums and set me on this course.
- [20:40]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, no, absolutely. I was excited, but, you know, I had seen a lot of disappointment in this business before. So you never. I didn't know whether he'd be there if it was just working on tracks that they'd work on, you know. But luckily it was, you know, he actually was coming in singing, I think.
- [20:57]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay.
- [20:58]
Bruce Sugar
That was the first time I met him.
- [21:00]
Robert Rodriguez
So the backings were already down at that point when you walked in on Ringo Rama.
- [21:03]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, they recorded most of the record already and we were just doing, like, vocals and overdubs and editing and stuff. And Mark Hudson had this little studio in Santa Monica that we worked at. And, yeah, we worked on that Ringo Ram album and finished that up. And then what was the next one? Choose Love, I think.
- [21:26]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, I think so.
- [21:27]
Bruce Sugar
That was done in England. So after that, after I actually became his engineer, was so great because he had a place in England outside of London with a real nice studio in it. And I'd go over there once or twice a year to work, usually for two or three weeks. And then I just tool around Europe because I was already there. So, I mean, I got to basically see all of Europe and. And London. I worked in London a bunch, too.
- [21:55]
Robert Rodriguez
Had you not been there before, working with Ringo?
- [21:57]
Bruce Sugar
No, it was the first time. Okay. In fact, I got a great story the first time I was ever there. I flew in from LA. It's an 11 hour flight from LA. So I get to London and actually Mark Hudson, that's when Mark was still working with Ringo. He picked me up at the airport and we had to pick up some gear for the sessions that were coming up. And they were at David Gilmore's studio. He has the studio on a boat, I don't know if you heard about that. It's on a big, big party boat kind of thing.
- [22:28]
Robert Rodriguez
Wow.
- [22:29]
Bruce Sugar
And it's really cool. It's on the Thames river, so I'm spaced out. We drive around. We were trying to find this place, like 11 o' clock at night. I'm just totally spaced out. We finally get to this studio, it's just a magical thing of this huge boat with the Neve console and everything. And we met, I think Phil Taylor was there, one of the engineers. He goes, yeah, we just finished the surround mix of Dark side of the Moon. You want to hear it?
- [22:57]
Robert Rodriguez
Wow.
- [22:59]
Bruce Sugar
It's like in heaven. I was spaced out and all of a sudden I'm listening to this new immersive mix of Dark side of the Moon on David Gilmore's boat. You know, it's like unbelievable. Wow. Anyway, that was my first hours into
- [23:14]
Robert Rodriguez
London, so you couldn't have scripted something like that. That's unbelievable.
- [23:17]
Bruce Sugar
I know, it was crazy.
- [23:19]
Robert Rodriguez
So to go back to that first meeting in Santa Monica with Ringo, what was that like at this point? You've met plenty of big name celebrity artists, right? But he's a Beatle. So this is your first Beatle?
- [23:31]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. It was definitely a different vibe. You know, he's so down to earth that he makes you feel great, you know, he doesn't put on any airs or anything. And he has a way about him that really makes you feel comfortable right away.
- [23:45]
Robert Rodriguez
Did you feel you were at liberty to share your Ed Sullivan story or being a drummer because of him, or did you just kind of like played cool?
- [23:54]
Bruce Sugar
No, I waited, I didn't. I played it cool. Played it cool, yeah. But at one point, I think when we were in England, that first time, Mark Hudson goes to Ringo, he goes, yeah, Bruce plays drums, you want to hear him play? So I get. I actually have a video of it too, because Brent Carpenter was there and I'm playing for Ringo on the Maple Kid from Abbey Road on that kit. I'm just playing, you know, playing a groove or something just to show him I could play, you know. But that was so crazy and magical moment.
- [24:29]
Robert Rodriguez
Unbelievable. So he's still using the Hollywood Kit at that point.
- [24:32]
Bruce Sugar
Oh, that was for Choose Love. And he did use that kit.
- [24:35]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay, so did you, as a fan, did you, like, your eyes bug out of your head when you saw that for the first time?
- [24:40]
Bruce Sugar
Oh, yeah. I was like, man, this. This is the one that was on the rooftop.
- [24:43]
Robert Rodriguez
And I mean, concert for Bangladesh.
- [24:46]
Bruce Sugar
I mean, that kid's probably worth more than anything he has been. Wow. Anyway, so calfskin heads. Yeah, absolutely.
- [24:55]
Robert Rodriguez
So when you hit it, did it sound like, oh, my God, this is the Ringo sound?
- [24:59]
Bruce Sugar
You know, I mean, it's Ringo sounds like Ringo wherever he plays, you know, he just has such a style, it doesn't matter what he's playing. But yeah, it did. It was definitely a magical thing to record him on those drums.
- [25:14]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah. I don't know, a few people, I think, would be very tempted to play the Abbey Road drum solo if you're sitting down at that kit. But.
- [25:21]
Bruce Sugar
Oh, yeah, right. I didn't do that. That's funny. That would have been too much.
- [25:27]
Robert Rodriguez
Right. So just in spending time around him, he's putting you at ease. He's very relaxed and chill around you. Did he ever volunteer Eddie Beatles stories, or was it all strictly we're here to work kind of situation?
- [25:42]
Bruce Sugar
You know, when I first started working with Ringo, he definitely didn't share a lot of Beatles stuff, and I didn't ask him, and most people wouldn't ask him unless he brought. Once in a while he'd bring something up. This was. He was still trying to. I don't know. Not that he didn't acknowledge his past, but I think he just wanted to live in the present, you know? Sure. But as the years went on, he embraces his beetle to more and more, you know, and now he's. He'll talk about anything, you know, and it's. It's great. He realizes what a legacy that is, you know, and that that is his legacy.
- [26:19]
Robert Rodriguez
Absolutely.
- [26:20]
Bruce Sugar
And I think he's been a lot more open to discussing stuff about that.
- [26:26]
Robert Rodriguez
What was interesting, when the pictures started to surface out for Long Long Road, the new album, I think every Beetle Geek in the world zeroed in on the fact he's wearing that purple shirt.
- [26:36]
Bruce Sugar
Oh, right.
- [26:37]
Robert Rodriguez
And the jacket. And it's like, oh, my God, you know, it's like nothing you ever expected to see again. And there it is and it looks great and it fits. So, yeah, it definitely shows an awareness of his past. And possibly also he has to know, I'm going to put this on and pose for pictures. Every Beatle fan in the world's going to know where they've seen this before.
- [26:58]
Bruce Sugar
Sure. No, I'm sure they did that on purpose, but I'm not really part of that whole fashionista thing. And he does what he wants, you know, I don't know who decided on that, but I think that was a cool idea. And it's great. This still fits, you know, I mean, he's. Ringo's very thin man. He. He keeps up his health pretty good. I mean, it's amazing. 85 years old and he's going on tour next month and still making records. And Paul, too, you know, it's such a blessing to have those two out there.
- [27:31]
Robert Rodriguez
Absolutely.
- [27:32]
Bruce Sugar
Hallelujah.
- [27:33]
Robert Rodriguez
You recorded remotely, if I'm not mistaken, the Ringo show in Waukegan, Illinois, when he was doing the Storytellers. Were you part of that?
- [27:42]
Bruce Sugar
I did do that one. Yeah, that was. Yeah, I did record that one.
- [27:47]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay. Essentially a live album.
- [27:49]
Bruce Sugar
Was it an album? I don't think that was an album. Was it or. I thought that was just a Storytellers. Was that done in Wisconsin or north
- [27:57]
Robert Rodriguez
suburb of Chicago called Waukegan at the Genesee Theater?
- [28:00]
Bruce Sugar
No, we did some there, but that wasn't.
- [28:03]
Robert Rodriguez
I thought they put that one out as a Storytellers. Is that that same show?
- [28:07]
Bruce Sugar
I don't know. Maybe it was put out. It might have been put out illegally, I don't know.
- [28:11]
Robert Rodriguez
Oh, okay.
- [28:14]
Bruce Sugar
Thank you. Thank you. Okay, well, I gotta tell you this, It's a great pleasure to be here. Okay. I have a new CD out called
- [28:24]
Robert Rodriguez
Choose Love
- [28:28]
Bruce Sugar
and I'm gonna do a couple of numbers for him, but this is the first one. I know that was a show we
- [28:32]
Robert Rodriguez
recorded, but it was a VH1 TV special.
- [28:35]
Bruce Sugar
Right, right. I remember that. Yeah.
- [28:38]
Robert Rodriguez
And basically him telling stories about the songs as he played them in his set.
- [28:42]
Bruce Sugar
I remember when Colin Hay was doing down under, they got some flute guy from off the street or something and he was like playing in a different. I forget now. I think I ought to replace him or something. I think I remember back on that.
- [29:00]
Robert Rodriguez
Oh, geez. So I know that nowadays a lot of recording is done separate. People record their part of the track and then send the file anywhere else in the world. But being an old school musician, I would think that Ringo very much would want to, as much as possible play in a room full of other musicians. Do you find that to be the case?
- [29:21]
Bruce Sugar
Not really. You know, I mean, the Beatles are and always have been up on the latest technology and utilizing what's around. And I think we first got into A lot of that type of stuff during the Pandemic.
- [29:35]
Robert Rodriguez
Right.
- [29:35]
Bruce Sugar
Because we did. I think we did two or three EPs during the pandemic, you know, so we were working together and I'd go over to. That was my little bubble, his place and Joe Walsh's. We'd put down some tracks and I'd send them out, you know. So we did a lot of. During the Pandemic, I definitely sent a lot of stuff out and people would send it back and I'd put it all together. And I don't prefer working that way, but it definitely worked back then.
- [30:02]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah.
- [30:03]
Bruce Sugar
And he's good with playing with other guys or overdubbing. I don't think it really matters to him, you know. I mean, it's definitely more fun with a whole room full of players, you know.
- [30:14]
Robert Rodriguez
Right. And typically the rooms that you guys are recording in these days are not huge, expansive Studio 2 at Abbey Road. So you've necessarily got to keep it small if you have multiple musicians.
- [30:26]
Bruce Sugar
Well, I mean, he usually works at home, you know, and it's really a converted bedroom where his drums are. It's a guest house where we have the studio and it's not a big space, you know. And usually if we do have other musicians there, it's two or three at a time, you know, it's usually a bass player and a guitar player and Ringo.
- [30:47]
Robert Rodriguez
So track live and that. You build the track off of that to track.
- [30:50]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah. And a lot of times we're not even track live. I'll put down a MIDI part or something, you know, and. Or someone will put down a guitar or whatever it is, you know, he'll hover it up to it. He's good at either. Either way, he's. He can play, he doesn't have a problem. But. Yeah.
- [31:08]
Robert Rodriguez
Is that generally the starting point when you're doing a track? Is the MIDI part in it? He'll add the drums to that and everything else gets added.
- [31:15]
Bruce Sugar
Well, it depends, you know. It's always different with, you know, these last two records we made with T Bone. T Bone would send a track over. It wasn't midi. He'd send a track over of whatever he did with either him or someone else singing a God track. And then I would record Ringo's drums and then he'd do his vocals. So a lot of that stuff, I mean, all that stuff, all the look up and the new Long Long Road album was done that way. So T Bone would send over a full track. There'd usually be some drummer on it, but it wasn't anything fancy. And he would play his part and then sing and then I'd send it back and T Bone would do all his other overdubs and that was it.
- [31:58]
Robert Rodriguez
I saw a quote from you where you talked about something you learned after all your years in the business of working with Ringo and Joe Walsh, that you felt they freed you from the burden of perfection.
- [32:09]
Bruce Sugar
How so? Well, I think they being an engineer and you know, sometimes people think that there's an absolute to recording and there's a certain way of doing stuff. And especially with Ringo, man, this thing was like. I mean, the Beatles were famous. John Lennon was famous for saying, you know, if it's a mistake, turn it up. And so I just learned that a lot of the inspiration in the studio you gotta be able to recognize. And it's not always the exact perfect part or it's not lining up perfectly on the grid or whatever, you know, but it's the magic, you know. So a lot, a lot of the magic happens when there's a looser environment and you're not really stuck to. There is no perfection, you know, in really anything. I mean, that's one of the things in like as a mixer, when do you stop, you know? Right. You're never going to get it perfect,
- [33:03]
Robert Rodriguez
so you're recognizing is an emotion that comes through the performance.
- [33:07]
Bruce Sugar
Right. I just learned a lot from them about that inspiration, that it's not always the perfect thing or what you expect that's going to happen. Sometimes it's the unexpected.
- [33:18]
Robert Rodriguez
Right.
- [33:18]
Bruce Sugar
That's the magic. So, yeah, definitely learn from them on that.
- [33:22]
Robert Rodriguez
Ringo has said, talking about his playing style, that when it comes to like doubling apart, he's useless at that because every take he does is going to be different. He's not going to remember what he did. And I guess from working with them you can attest to that, that however many passes he takes, maybe two, three, they're all different.
- [33:41]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, no, absolutely. And he could, I don't know if you needed double drums, but he could if you had to, you know, I'd take it piece by piece, but yeah, no, he, he's totally a field drummer man. He'll just go for it. And you're right, every take is going to be a little different and he'll try different things and you know, but his instincts are so great for drumming. He'll usually come out with something that's the first take's usually the right part. Sometimes he'll listen to that and perfect it a little bit. But he rarely does more than two or three takes for a guy his age.
- [34:17]
Robert Rodriguez
And for a drummer his age, it just seems like a lot of drummers along the way, there's the wear and tear on the body and they'll need like back surgery or shoulder surgery, things like that. I think that he's had some kind of in the last 10 years or so. And I've noticed as a drummer myself,
- [34:32]
Bruce Sugar
he has both the shoulders dotted.
- [34:34]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, I've noticed that his hi hat will sometimes not be to his left, but it'll be sort of centered. That keeps the strain off of having to cross his wrists to play like that.
- [34:45]
Bruce Sugar
I don't know. He doesn't. In the studio, he has no hi hat there, his hi hats on where it should be.
- [34:51]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay.
- [34:51]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, I think that's just for live. He has that. I don't know why he has that there.
- [34:55]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay. I would think just as a drummer, that's because it's gonna take some of the strain off if you're used to it being a certain way.
- [35:02]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, maybe. I don't know. But he definitely doesn't have one of those in the studio.
- [35:08]
Robert Rodriguez
When you see the masterclass videos he produced of him just showing his drum parts, you have to stop and realize you're looking at an octogenarian playing these parts. How incredibly fluid and non tentative. And he could be in his 30s and playing exactly the same way. It's amazing to me just to see how kinetic and confident he is. And there's not a bad note. He's playing everything masterfully and exactly the way you want to hear it. But there's still a bit of spontaneity to it too. It must be a real joy to listen to him playing in the studio when you're working on a record with him.
- [35:47]
Bruce Sugar
Oh, it's so great. You know, I still get thrilled watching him play and I've probably recorded more than anyone, right. And he. Yeah, he just has this magic to him. He listen. He's listening to the song, you know, and he plays the song, you know, he's always said that, you know, to him, the first thing, you know, a lot of guys was like, bring the drums up or let me hear more bass. To him, it's bring the vocal up, he wants to hear the lyric.
- [36:13]
Robert Rodriguez
And that seemed to be the secret to his playing in the Beatles is that he cued off the singer. He queued off the song.
- [36:18]
Bruce Sugar
Absolutely, yeah.
- [36:19]
Robert Rodriguez
Now you, of course, one of the few people that has worked with both Paul and Ringo, you worked with them together on a Project. What was that like for you?
- [36:28]
Bruce Sugar
Well, I mean, it was pretty, you know, I've done it. We've done it maybe three or four times. He's come over and played on Ringo stuff, and it's always magical. And he's humble again, you know, he'll come in, what do you want me to do? And no ego. In fact, one time, I remember, I think we were doing Grow Old with Me.
- [36:46]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah.
- [36:48]
Bruce Sugar
And he came in, he was doing his own album at the time he was in town, and he came over on a Sunday, his day off, to help Ringo, you know, his friend Ringo. And he didn't have to do that. And it was great, you know, and actually during that session, I remember one emotional moment where Paul's playing and all of a sudden he goes, you know, we're doing a Grow Old with me. And he was like, kind of melancholy. He goes, you know, we never got to grow old with John, you know, and it's kind of really emotional, you know, and it was just me, Ringo and Paul in the studio. There was no press or nothing, you know, which was so incredible for me.
- [37:27]
Robert Rodriguez
And he's playing the Hoffner.
- [37:28]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah. Playing the Hoffner, yeah.
- [37:30]
Robert Rodriguez
What that must have been like for you, seeing that Paul McCarty with that guitar.
- [37:34]
Bruce Sugar
That's great, you know, really great. Yeah. And he, like I said, he was really cool. And, you know, what do you want me to. I think the first time I worked with him, he sat down, he goes, you want me to play with my fingers or a pick?
- [37:49]
Robert Rodriguez
This podcast is brought to you in part by Magical Mystery Camp. Coming to Big Indian New York, just two and a half hours from New York City. The week of Paul McCartney's 84th birthday, June 16th through the 19th. Featuring a number of special guests including the Fab foe, as well as singer, songwriter, musicians Martin Sexton, Gail Ann Dorsey, Cindy Cash Dollar and more. Now, speaking of somebody who was there last year, and I will be back again this year, it is a fabulous experience. If you love the Beatles, if you love music, if you love learning about the Beatles, if you play music yourself, it's got it all. Magical Mystery Camp features nightly musical performances, interactive workshops, jam sessions, chance to relax in a beautiful locale, and lots more. If you're a musician or simply love the Beatles and want to learn more, this is a summer event for you. Check out magical mystery camp.com Something this episode of Something about the Beatles is sponsored by Distrokid. Distrokid is a service that distributes music into the streaming platforms and also collects your royalty payments. It enables you to share with collaborators. It also has a feature that will polish up your recordings called Mixia. Basically it is a way to get your best foot forward out there before a listening audience, making your music shine and get it into all the proper channels and make sure you get paid for your work. As a special offer to listeners of something about the Beatles and I know there are many who are musicians, you could take advantage of this 30% off their first year subscription by going to distrokid.com that's D I S T R O K I D. Good for 30% off your first year of subscribing to Distrokid. So check it out if you are music makers and artists out there and make your music shine. The Distrokid app is available. Go to the app or Play store to download it. Did you notice a different dynamic between him and Ringo than you were used to seeing with Ringo and other people at Web?
- [40:08]
Bruce Sugar
Absolutely. So that's a great question because usually when anyone else comes in, I mean Ringo's the top guy, egos are gone, you know, I mean everyone loves to be around Ringo and there's really no ego and ho's mention whatever when Paul came in and each time he kind of clams up a little bit because we kind of co produce this stuff together so I had to do more work. But yeah, that dynamic, he could see it, you know, I mean, because you could tell Paul was the alpha guy in that relationship, you know, I mean, they're still close, there was nothing bad about it, but you could tell Paul was definitely the authority musically, you know, Ringo didn't say too much to him about how to play it or you know, he'll give a little suggestion but not much, you know. Which was an interesting dynamic. Yeah, it was really interesting.
- [41:04]
Robert Rodriguez
Did you watch the Get Back film? The Peter Jackson film?
- [41:07]
Bruce Sugar
I did. Uh huh.
- [41:08]
Robert Rodriguez
So how did that. When you by that time were used to working with Ringo? Almost 20 years at that point, did it give you any insights or did you see some things were the same and some things were different in the guy that you knew.
- [41:20]
Bruce Sugar
Not really. The difference was when I met him, he was sober. I don't know if he was sober during those shows at all, but I know that part of his life has produced more humility, I think in all of them. You know, anyone that gets older is going to do that. And then when you go through a program like he has, I'm sure it increases your humility and everything, but yeah, I didn't see that much difference.
- [41:49]
Robert Rodriguez
You know, I was wondering about the dynamic in the studio. And of course, for the Let It Be Get Back project, it's all about capturing the optimum live performance as a foursome. That's a little bit different from what you guys are currently doing.
- [42:03]
Bruce Sugar
Sure, yeah.
- [42:05]
Robert Rodriguez
Now, you've worked with several different producers, everybody from Hudson to T Bone. Did you notice any different approaches with Ringo being the one constant? Was there anything drastically different in the approach to making these records along the way that you picked up on?
- [42:22]
Bruce Sugar
I don't know. I mean, it was totally different thing. T Bone has his own style, he has his own people. And to be honest with you, I wasn't privy to a lot of the stuff T Bone did. I think I went down Nashville once to watch him work, you know, but he did most of it in Nashville. But Hudson was definitely more hands on, I think Mark's thing. He wanted to be the artist more than anything, you know. You know, he was a great singer and writer as well, but I don't know if he like to be behind the scenes at all. It seemed to me he wanted to be in the spotlight. I think that's the main difference between those two guys.
- [43:02]
Robert Rodriguez
Were you around with Dave Stewart?
- [43:04]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, no, I work with Dave and Ringo a lot. Yeah, Dave's great too, man. Dave's really incredible. He's like a renaissance man. He's got all kinds of stuff going on and he's really quick in the studio. He knows what he wants. Really easy to get along with. Yeah, I enjoyed working with Dave.
- [43:22]
Robert Rodriguez
Now, one thing that I found really interesting, as the new tracks are coming out, you've got this remake of Choose Love. How did that come about? It's a different approach completely to the same song. I was wondering, was that a Ringo idea? Did somebody suggest it? Do you have any idea why he chose to remake that one?
- [43:42]
Bruce Sugar
You know, I wasn't around when that happened. That was him and T Bone working out some stuff about some songs. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure why that one happened. Well, the other song is Choose Love that, you know, I wrote with a couple of guys 10 years ago. Maybe he liked it and felt we could redo it, which we did. It's been out on an album, but this is a different feel to it.
- [44:14]
Robert Rodriguez
What I did want to do was bring some young. Some of this extraordinary young energy that's
- [44:20]
Bruce Sugar
happening around Nashville now. Andy Clark sang on it. Who's one of the really most brilliant
- [44:26]
Robert Rodriguez
young artists working in it these days,
- [44:29]
Bruce Sugar
I just love the sentiment of the song. No matter what, you choose Choose Love.
- [44:34]
Robert Rodriguez
Because you would have been part of the original one from Choose Love, right?
- [44:37]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah. No, absolutely. I record all that.
- [44:39]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah. Which is much more of a tax man feel. It's much more of a 60s.
- [44:43]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah. It's a rock track. Yeah. Yeah. Our next guest made his American television debut on this stage 41 years ago as one of the Beatles. His new CD is entitled Choose Love. Please welcome back Ringo Starr. Got clouds in my head disappear the sky is turning blue now you're here. We've come a long way Day after day we still got a long way to go. You got to play your due if you wanna save the blue. But no matter what, you choose Choose Love. T Bone's thing's interesting, actually. I just mixed a T Bones. Mike Presante mixes, all T Bone stuff. So he mixed that album, the new album. But I did some Atmos mixes and Choose Love was great. All that ear candy in there really was cool.
- [46:15]
Robert Rodriguez
Right. I trust that was not a real sitar that you hear.
- [46:19]
Bruce Sugar
The sitar I don't think was real, but I think all those flutes in the. You know, the hammered dulcimer were real.
- [46:27]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay.
- [46:27]
Bruce Sugar
I'm not sure. I wasn't there. It's probably an electric sitar.
- [46:31]
Robert Rodriguez
That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Well, I guess when the album comes out, we'll be able to read the credits, but that's how my ears received it.
- [46:37]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, I think it is. I don't know. Yeah. I wasn't there when they recorded it.
- [46:41]
Robert Rodriguez
Well, it is interesting that, again, this is not the first time Ringo has revisited a track he recorded before. Step Lightly was originally on the ringo album in 73. And you guys did a remake of that in 2012. Wings was an interesting one.
- [46:56]
Bruce Sugar
Wings, we did, too.
- [46:56]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah. Yeah. You want to talk about that? Like, again, maybe you weren't privy to the creative decision. Let's remake these songs. And the first thing I think is, is it because you were disappointed with the original version, or is it. I want to update this because I really like that song and I think I could do it better now or something like that.
- [47:16]
Bruce Sugar
That was Rango's suggestion. You know, we were. That was on. Was that 2012?
- [47:20]
Robert Rodriguez
I think so, yeah. The two of those songs were.
- [47:23]
Bruce Sugar
So, yeah, he wanted to do a remake. I guess he wanted to update him a little bit. I don't know. I thought Wings came out good. I like that remake. Step Lightly, the original was pretty cool with the Tapping. Yeah, yeah.
- [47:35]
Robert Rodriguez
It's a little interesting because I. That was like a feature baked into that track. And I was surprised when he remade it. They didn't do another run at tapping on it.
- [47:42]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, yeah. But in the meantime, Find yourself a love that's gonna last.
- [48:11]
Robert Rodriguez
Were you familiar with the originals at the time you remade them?
- [48:14]
Bruce Sugar
No, I wasn't. I didn't really know a lot of Ringo's old catalog stuff, you know, but. Yeah, no, it was. Those are fun remakes.
- [48:23]
Robert Rodriguez
Well, one that I think you would be familiar with, you have a story about, which is Back Off Boogaloo.
- [48:28]
Bruce Sugar
Back Off Boogaloo. Yeah, we found a bunch of old recordings. We ended up using, like, three different versions of it melted together.
- [48:36]
Robert Rodriguez
So the original, the basis was somebody found a quarter inch tape of his demo, like before the. The song had been tracked.
- [48:44]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, it was just him playing, like, this guitar, singing it. And then I guess we got the original, and then we did an updated version of it as well.
- [48:53]
Robert Rodriguez
Was it your task to meld all
- [48:55]
Bruce Sugar
this together and make a. Yeah, no, I did that. Yeah. It was kind of fun to do.
- [49:00]
Robert Rodriguez
Sure.
- [49:01]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah.
- [49:02]
Robert Rodriguez
Talk about archival, that was an amazing thing.
- [49:04]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah.
- [49:04]
Robert Rodriguez
And it just makes me wonder, that tape was discovered, what, in the last 10 years or something like that? Is he sitting on an archive of stuff we don't even know about that would be great to see the light of day someday?
- [49:16]
Bruce Sugar
Well, I'm not sure. I know there's an archive. I haven't really dug deep into it, but we're always looking forward, usually. I think Universal may want to do something in the future. A box set or something, possibly.
- [49:32]
Robert Rodriguez
That'd be great.
- [49:33]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah.
- [49:33]
Robert Rodriguez
Well, at a technical, I think it was you telling the story that when you did fly out to Ringo, when he had a residence there in England and a studio setup, you discovered a microphone.
- [49:45]
Bruce Sugar
Oh, right. Yeah, he had a studio. And there was an attic upstairs above the studio. And it was just like a big storage area.
- [49:53]
Robert Rodriguez
Like a time capsule.
- [49:54]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, well, it was a bunch of stuff. I mean, you know, exercise equipment and music equipment and, you know, all kinds of shit up there. And anyway, I found this old cardboard box. I pull it out and there's this case in it and like a big attache. Metal attache case. And I open it up, man, it's a V49. That was a Titanhurst, so I'm sure it was used with John and stuff.
- [50:21]
Robert Rodriguez
Right. He recorded the Imagine album there.
- [50:23]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah. And that mic is the same one I still use today on his vocals. Just a great mic, you Know, for him, that's amazing. Yeah. Sitting up there all taped up and it was like, you know, if I didn't find it, probably still be there. And it was a C12A too. I don't know if, you know, that's an old AKG mic as well in there. Oh, wow. So it was pretty cool.
- [50:49]
Robert Rodriguez
What a neat thing to stumble across.
- [50:51]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, right. Yeah. Ringo. I didn't even know what he had. He doesn't know what he has half the time, you know, so all kinds of stuff there.
- [50:59]
Robert Rodriguez
So do you happen to know, I don't know if it's part of the thought process, if there's something you would be in on the discussions. But here he is still going out on the road. Has there been any thought given to doing any live recordings for a future release?
- [51:13]
Bruce Sugar
Live recording, I mean, like a live show. They're always recording every show.
- [51:18]
Robert Rodriguez
Oh, okay.
- [51:18]
Bruce Sugar
Nowadays that's pretty much standard, you know, because it runs through the house board and they usually have a thing where Pro Tools can capture whatever they're sending out to the house, you know.
- [51:30]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay, so that explains the serious All Star series that they've had on series. The Beatles channel.
- [51:36]
Bruce Sugar
Right, yeah.
- [51:36]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay, so then he has an archive of all his shows, presumably.
- [51:40]
Bruce Sugar
He does. What I'd like to do someday, I don't know if they're ever going to do it, is do a Best of the All Stars. Because look at the history of All Stars. It's unbelievable. The stars they've had and the hit songs that they've covered and it'd be an amazing project, you know, hopefully something like that's on the horizon. But I'd love to be involved with that and like do some Atmos mixes. And I know a lot of that stuff exists, you know, there's multi tracks and videos and a lot of that old All Star, starting with the first All Star band, which was unbelievable, you know. I'm sure you know about that one, you know.
- [52:19]
Robert Rodriguez
Oh, sure. Levon and Clarence Clemens and Billy Preston and Dr. John.
- [52:24]
Bruce Sugar
Dr. John. Yeah, yeah. Joe Walsh.
- [52:27]
Robert Rodriguez
Right.
- [52:27]
Bruce Sugar
I mean, it was insane. That group. Ringo and Keltner played drums on that one.
- [52:33]
Robert Rodriguez
Oh, and from the band, Rick do played bass. Rick Danko. Yeah, yeah.
- [52:38]
Bruce Sugar
And they had, well, Joe play guitar and the Springsteen guy. Nils Niels. Niels Loft.
- [52:46]
Robert Rodriguez
Oh, Nils Lofka. Yes, yes, yes, you're right.
- [52:48]
Bruce Sugar
Was on that show as well. So, I mean, it was an unbelievable show, you know, and just through the
- [52:53]
Robert Rodriguez
years, all the incredible talent and so many of these people that aren't around Anymore. Like Gary Brooker.
- [52:59]
Bruce Sugar
He's had people from. Yeah, Gary, I was going to say from Broko Harem. He had guys from Cream, Jack Bruce. Guess who? Jack Bruce. I mean, unbelievable.
- [53:09]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah. God, it's staggering.
- [53:11]
Bruce Sugar
It's just rock and roll history, man.
- [53:13]
Robert Rodriguez
You know, Roger Hodgson, Dave Edmonds. Yeah, man. Wow.
- [53:18]
Bruce Sugar
So it'd be great to do. I mean, you could do two or three different compilations. That'd be amazing, you know, for sure.
- [53:25]
Robert Rodriguez
And if you got video to go with it, that'd be unbelievable.
- [53:27]
Bruce Sugar
There is. Most of those things are archived, you know, so.
- [53:31]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, that's fantastic.
- [53:33]
Bruce Sugar
I'm hoping to do one of those in the future, but we'll see.
- [53:36]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah. Well, as long as he stays out there on the road and keeps the interest going and keeps putting out great albums, there will be the interest for sure.
- [53:42]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, he's. I think he goes out next month, the end of next month, I think so. He's torn around. Amazing. Paul's still at it, man. Unbelievable.
- [53:54]
Robert Rodriguez
Were you at the Fonda shows?
- [53:55]
Bruce Sugar
I didn't go. I didn't. I wasn't lucky enough to get invited. But I did run into Abe Jr. You know, I'd see him around. He lives around me, so I see him all the time around town. And I ran into him the day after. He said it was a great, great show there.
- [54:11]
Robert Rodriguez
They did the Apple gig.
- [54:12]
Bruce Sugar
They did the Apple gig, yeah. Yeah. Paul's still sounding great, man. That new album is pretty amazing. You know, there's a duet on that with Ringo. I don't know if you know about that.
- [54:25]
Robert Rodriguez
I did not, no. Do you know the song?
- [54:27]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, it's called Home to Us.
- [54:29]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay. Were you part of the engineering on that?
- [54:31]
Bruce Sugar
I did. Ah, very good. That'll be on his new. Is that album out yet or is it coming out?
- [54:36]
Robert Rodriguez
It's coming out May 29th, I believe.
- [54:38]
Bruce Sugar
Okay. Okay. I think they. They released a single already.
- [54:42]
Robert Rodriguez
Yes, they did.
- [54:43]
Bruce Sugar
But that's something to look forward to and. Yeah, keeps going on. The Beatles legacy keeps expanding.
- [54:53]
Robert Rodriguez
Well, that's the thing that through the years of doing this show, I've had a lot of discussions with a lot of people, people that knew the Beatles, worked with the Beatles, first gen fans, Gen Z fans. And one of the common things people talk about is how the Beatles delivered this joy at the right time, when the world needed it.
- [55:14]
Bruce Sugar
Absolutely.
- [55:15]
Robert Rodriguez
And you are a party to part of that in 2023, when now and Then came out. And again, it was just something that just elicited such an emotional response from all ages. All over the world.
- [55:28]
Bruce Sugar
Oh, yeah.
- [55:29]
Robert Rodriguez
What was your part in that when you got a credit on now and Then? What did you do exactly?
- [55:34]
Bruce Sugar
I record Rango's drums on that and his vocals.
- [55:38]
Robert Rodriguez
Okay.
- [55:39]
Bruce Sugar
And you know, that. That had to be one of the greatest achievements of my career is getting the Beatles credit.
- [55:46]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah.
- [55:47]
Bruce Sugar
You know, I mean, it was pretty amazing, you know, after that, I was like, okay, everything's fine now.
- [55:52]
Robert Rodriguez
There's no higher than this.
- [55:54]
Bruce Sugar
There isn't.
- [55:55]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah.
- [55:55]
Bruce Sugar
Not for me. You know, so that was a great thing. I thought everyone involved with that did an amazing job. I thought it was very emotional, that song. And, yeah, I was so happy to be a part of that.
- [56:07]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah.
- [56:08]
Bruce Sugar
I actually got Ringo to sing on. I don't think Paul expected him to sing, you know, but I was like, why don't you sing the chorus? You know? And so he ended up singing on the chorus as well.
- [56:18]
Robert Rodriguez
Oh, yeah. And he comes through.
- [56:19]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah. And I'm glad they kept him in, you know, because he should be part of that, you know, singing.
- [56:25]
Robert Rodriguez
It was interesting. I don't know how the decision would have gotten made, but that back in the 1995 tracks that they did that Ringo decided. And Paul decided to change his bass part and Ringo decided to recut his drums.
- [56:36]
Bruce Sugar
Oh, from. Oh, yeah, right.
- [56:38]
Robert Rodriguez
From the original take they had when George was still alive. Did you have any input on that? Or is that something you were around when they were making the decision, Keep this or no, we're gonna recut this?
- [56:48]
Bruce Sugar
No, but I'm glad they recut it, you know, And I wish they recut the drums on some of those other ones that Jeff Lynn did, you know, like now and then. Free as a bird Free as a bird Real love and real love Ringo's hitting the drums, but Jeff, he just puts everything on a grid. To me, those songs don't feel like Ringo playing.
- [57:09]
Robert Rodriguez
They feel like a metronome.
- [57:10]
Bruce Sugar
Right. I would have really loved to hear even a remake, you know, I think. Did they re release those or are they gonna re release those?
- [57:18]
Robert Rodriguez
They remastered them and they did some for the Anthology project that came out late last year. They tweaked them and one of the things they wanted to do was use the AI to make John's ghostly demo voice sound better.
- [57:31]
Bruce Sugar
Right.
- [57:31]
Robert Rodriguez
But they also replaced some of George's guitar lines. They switched them out for alternate ones. So it's like, if they're taking it that far in terms of remake, surely there's room to replace Ringo's drums.
- [57:43]
Bruce Sugar
I wish they would, because when I Hear those records. Doesn't feel like him playing. You know what I mean? Yeah.
- [57:48]
Robert Rodriguez
It's just 100%. Yeah. I really wish they would. And I don't know if Ringo has weighed in, if he has an opinion or I'd like another crack at that. Or not. But it would be welcome.
- [57:58]
Bruce Sugar
If they asked him to do it, he would, you know, if Paul. It'd be up to Paul, you know, he's kind of the purveyor of all that stuff now.
- [58:05]
Robert Rodriguez
So what do you think when you listen to. You talked about now and then and how emotional that was. And I think that's absolutely what it projects. Did you have a reaction to the music video when it came out, or that making of film?
- [58:18]
Bruce Sugar
I thought the music video was so brilliant, man. It was just so great. I couldn't think of anything better that they could have done. You know, Peter Jackson was brilliant on that video.
- [58:28]
Robert Rodriguez
I thought that that last part where it goes back through time and then it ends with the fans sort of including them into the story because they are so much a part of the story.
- [58:39]
Bruce Sugar
Sure.
- [58:39]
Robert Rodriguez
Was the perfect note.
- [58:41]
Bruce Sugar
Oh, absolutely.
- [58:42]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah.
- [58:42]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah. No, and in fact, that video didn't win. The best Video of the year was insane.
- [58:48]
Robert Rodriguez
You know, I'd like to know what did, because if you're not having moisture in your eyes by the end of that thing, you're not human.
- [58:56]
Bruce Sugar
Right. So on another note. So now and Then was nominated for Record of the Year. I'm sure. Remember it. As an engineer, I was nominated as well, because of the Record of the Year. The engineers getting nominated. So I was at the Grammys that year a couple years ago. So at the beginning of the show, Trevor Noah, who's the host, he's going through all the nominees, you know. Yeah. And Taylor Swift's here. Huge applause. And Bruno Mars. Yeah, huge applause. You know, all these young artists. And the Beatles are nominated. Crickets. Crickets.
- [59:34]
Robert Rodriguez
What the hell?
- [59:35]
Bruce Sugar
And I was like, what? The Beatles fans weren't there. It was a young crowd waiting to see Sabrina Carpenter or whatever, you know, So I was just real disappointed that Kendrick Lamar won on that song about Drake being a pedophile. That's the song of the year. I like Kendrick, but that wasn't his greatest song. And to win the Record of the Year for that, you know, I didn't get it. I do kind of get it, you know. Yeah, the whole Grammy organization's changed a lot.
- [60:07]
Robert Rodriguez
Well, you look back historically, when the Beatles were having their heyday and they're losing to nonsense that Nobody even remembers anymore.
- [60:16]
Bruce Sugar
Right.
- [60:16]
Robert Rodriguez
So I guess they're still on brand.
- [60:18]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah. It was just disappointing, you know, I thought maybe.
- [60:21]
Robert Rodriguez
Sure.
- [60:22]
Bruce Sugar
I mean, they won for what? Rock performance for that song. And yeah, I talked to Ranger, he was like, oh, yeah, it's really a rock song.
- [60:32]
Robert Rodriguez
Do you remember the year that Jethro Tull won for Best Heavy Metal Group?
- [60:36]
Bruce Sugar
Oh, yeah, I do, I do.
- [60:38]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah. Okay, well.
- [60:41]
Bruce Sugar
But it would have been really good to have them win. Not only for me, but it was just. They should have been recognized for Record of the Year that year because it was such a monumental record, the way it was made, the history of it, and the whole legacy of the Beatles. I mean, it would have been perfect if they wanted, but lo and behold, it's what it is, you know.
- [61:04]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah. It's really too bad, but you're right, it would have been completely appropriate. So, any final thoughts on your story with Ringo and being taken on this amazing journey that came in this wonderful full circle, that a night in February 64, they send you on this path and then you end up joining paths down the road doing the stuff that this wonderful work that you guys have done. Anything. Do you ever, like, think about it deeply? It's like, how did I get here and where I go from here?
- [61:34]
Bruce Sugar
Well, I just think how, you know, fortunate I am, you know, I mean, I put in a lot of work to be able to stay in this position, you know, and obviously there's a lot of luck involved in this industry. And I'm just so blessed and grateful for Ringo for being so loyal, number one, then number two, for the amount of people I've met through him and that have boosted my career and. Yeah, I just have nothing, you know, I know a lot of people want to hear Dirt and all that stuff. There is none, you know. Yeah, there's nothing bad to say and, you know, it's all been good, all positive and that's good.
- [62:13]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, I thought it was cool. When you consider that Paul did that rock and roll oldies project. A couple of them, actually. He did the Russian album, then he did Run Devil Run. John got to do a rock and roll oldies album. You got to work with Ringo for that Buddy Holly tribute where he does think it over, right?
- [62:32]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, think it over, yeah. That was great.
- [62:34]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah. I just wonder if he ever had the thought of doing like a straight up rock and roll or rockabilly album, going back to his roots.
- [62:42]
Bruce Sugar
Well, I mean, we've done a lot of that. We've done. We did think it over and we did Rock around the clock. Then we do that.
- [62:49]
Robert Rodriguez
Yeah, right.
- [62:51]
Bruce Sugar
And, you know, so he just.
- [62:52]
Robert Rodriguez
Like a whole album's worth.
- [62:53]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah. Well, no, Adam talked about that. Yeah, we'll see, you know, after this. Long, long roads coming out. We'll work that for a while. We'll see what happens after that, you know, see if he still has in him to keep going, you know. I hope so.
- [63:08]
Robert Rodriguez
Maybe a skiffle album.
- [63:09]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah, right. Hopefully he'll still do any kind of album, you know. Hell, yeah. I know. We got. There's. We have a few things in the can still and. And we'll see. We'll see how it all works out. Yeah. But like I said, it's been a great journey for me and I hope it keeps going, you know, 100.
- [63:30]
Robert Rodriguez
I think the. The right guy landed where he needed to be. So that's great for everybody.
- [63:34]
Bruce Sugar
Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. You know, I like to say sometimes I make the right moves. And one of the right moves was hooking up with T Bone for the first album and for this, because we started, as you said, with look up and it was such a great experience and I loved listening to it. I mean, I blessed he's in my life right now. I was down at Willie Nelson's studio in Austin and I walked in and
- [64:02]
Robert Rodriguez
Willie said, t Bone, it's been too long.
- [64:05]
Bruce Sugar
And I thought, this guy just talks in song time. He put it all together and he got Molly and Billy Strange and a lot of people to play on the record. Molly Tuttle is a master. There's not a better guitarist in the world than Molly Tuttle. Molly sings so much better on my records. And she smiled, too. And I told her she's been a great support through him. She's on several tracks and she never lets you down. So great.
- [64:42]
Robert Rodriguez
Something about the Beatles created and hosted by Robert Rodriguez executive producer Rick Way. Title song performed by the Corgis Something about the Beatles is an evergreen podcast.
- [65:05]
Bruce Sugar
Now performing a song from the new VH1 Storyteller CD here, once again, Ringo Starr. Google back up. Google back up what you think you're going to do right from the start. Wake up the head don't pretend that you were dead get yourself up on the car get yourself together now and give me something tasty. Everything you try to do, you know it's all done. You think you're the group standing there. Yeah. Was it? Back off. Come on, back off, Boogaloo. Get yourself together now and give me something tasty. Everything you try to do, you know. Sa. Sam.