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Something Positive for Positive People
SPFPP 362: Gratitude for Herpes - There is Light in There Too
01:02:05
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- [00:03]
Courtney Brain
Hello and welcome to Something Positive for Positive People. I'm Courtney Brain. Something Positive for Positive People is a 501c3 nonprofit organization supporting people who are living with herpes and navigating herpes stigma. I started this organization in 2017 as a way of bringing awareness to how many people who were struggling with their herpes diagnosis also had suicide ideation. Consistently. When we conduct surveys we see that 36% of people do have suicidation after their diagnosis related to their diagnosis. We're figuring it out. In our survey we have a 2025 herpes stigma survey. This is about a 20 minute survey. There are a lot of questions for people who are living with herpes to share their experience in the way that we can quantify and be able to use this to integrate into our advocacy efforts to talk to public health professionals and say, hey, you know, here's different ways that you can go about delivering a diagnosis. Here's some language you can use, some things to just kind of soften the blow of stigma and as you know, help with minimizing its impacts from the psychological perspective, which also go on to help the physical perspective. We have our first training with a healthcare organization, Shout out to a firm AZ in Phoenix, Arizona. They are our first stimulation client. We're going to come in with some patient actors who are sex educators and they're going to be patients who are receiving a diagnosis with their clinicians and giving them feedback, giving feedback on what it was like to be their patient. And this is going to be at the end of February, so you'll be hearing about that once we get it up and running. We got a photographer, we got funding for this Shout out to the Love in Action fund for making this possible. We're going to make a commercial out of this, so I'm looking forward to what's to come. If you haven't been to the Something Positive website yet or lately, please check it out. Spfpp.org we reorganize things in a much more clean and concise way so that you can find services, resources and education tools that you might need for yourself in a little bit easier of a way. And the offering now as we are in 2025, not really been, I guess pushing this on social media partly because I'm still in training, but I'm a yoga therapist in training and as a yoga therapist in training, I've been working with mentors. I just completed my introductory course which has been 300 hours. Partially why y'all haven't seen so active on Social media. And in the completion of that, I'm now transitioning into working directly with clients and being guided under mentors and completing some additional modules. If you're curious about yoga therapy, what that is, the difference between that and therapy therapy and what that looks like, check out the yoga therapy tab on the website and you'll be able to get more information there. But smooth transition, because we're going to be talking to someone who's been a client of mine in yoga therapy. Melissa, I, first off, want to thank you for having trusted me, this, you know, stranger who is doing this new thing, to be one of my guinea pigs and provide feedback for the case study. But second off, I want to thank you for being willing to participate in a podcast episode, especially because this is a vulnerable thing. This is one of the things that you reached out about was, you know, working through your diagnosis and learning from it. So I want to give you the space to just share. First off, if you want to introduce yourself, however you want to introduce yourself, please do. But the first question I have for you is, why did you want to do this? Why did you want to become a podcast? Something positive.
- [04:13]
Melissa
I am so excited to be here and so excited to be having this conversation with you, and I feel like this gives me a wonderful opportunity to live my truth. And I think that's been one of the hurdles in being diagnosed with herpes has been knowing something about myself that feels like I can't be out in the world with it. And this just gives me an opportunity to live in that truth, live with integrity, live in honesty, and. And also help other people see that, you know, it can happen. And it does. And, And. And also, it's just. It. It's okay.
- [05:16]
Courtney Brain
So I unmuted, and then I muted myself right away. Yeah. And I'm gonna tell you now, like, this. This. We've had plenty conversations. This is just as laid back as any of those conversations that we've had. This is no different than just being like a yoga therapy session, minus too much personalization, of course. But, yeah, like, we're just talking to each other, and whoever is listening in later down the road, they're listening in later down. So you reached out. You were my first yoga therapy client. We made it through our four or five weeks of working together. I want to ask you, like, what brought you in? What sparked your curiosity about yoga therapy, first off?
- [06:05]
Melissa
So I'm actually a yoga instructor myself, and I know the healing that yoga can help, can bring. I've been through some dark places in My life not related to my diagnosis at all. And yoga really helped me through those things. And then when I saw that yoga therapy was available and I'd never done yoga therapy before, only, you know, taking yoga classes, I was like, oh, my goodness. This is. Yeah, this is. This is. This is, for me, you know, just. I don't know, connecting, truly connecting mind, body and spirit together is what yoga is all about. And. Yeah, helping with that healing process.
- [06:57]
Courtney Brain
Yeah. And when you came in, what, like, what did you hope to get out of it? Right, Because I think we're led through things, maybe not really fully knowing what we want, what we need, but we just feel like this pull. There's a compelling force that attracts us to a space, an environment, a thing, a person, an activity, whatever. But I think I asked you this on the intake form. Like, did you know what you wanted to get out of it?
- [07:35]
Melissa
I knew I wanted healing, and I knew. I knew that I needed to go deeper. I just knew that I was in. I had lots of tools from other. Other places. Been in therapy, you know, been in groups, done yoga classes. But yoga therapy just offered something to allow me to go deeper, and I wanted to try it out. And it. Yeah, it turned out to be something way. Yeah, way more healing than I. Than I knew in the beginning.
- [08:19]
Courtney Brain
Yeah. All right, now let's. Let's. Let's go ahead and get past the superficial things, I guess. Yeah, it was healing. What does that mean to you? Right, so we talk about doing the work, and you have very much exemplified doing the work from our time together. You mentioned you were seeing a therapist. You were in these groups, you were putting into practice the things I was asking of you, doing the homework. And like, when. I don't know why this was so shocking to me, but it makes me smile so big when I hear that people are doing the things that I ask them to do. Like, one of the first exercises is the intuitive teaching. Right. So you're a yoga teacher, and you would normally, you mentioned scripting or writing out what the class is going to look like. So taking that tool into your class, can you speak a little bit about what that particular thing did for you or what you got as an example?
- [09:22]
Melissa
Yeah. So you and I talked a lot about the koshers, and you brought me to a place where I kind of understood that I was in the thinking and emotional part of the kosher. And I wanted, with your help, to kind of go a little bit, go deeper into the next, you know, into the. Into the next layer, the wisdom Layer, I guess. And because I'm a yoga teacher, that sort of meant leaving behind this thinking that I was doing this, writing things down, scripting it out, making lists, making a sequence from what I. Yeah. Thought before I went in. And then when I actually went into a class, sometimes it matched what the class was feeling, but sometimes maybe it wasn't. And so you encouraged me to do this intuitive sequence and I did. And it was. Yeah, it was really amazing. I. Yeah, I just let whatever energy that I felt and that the class felt bring what postures we were going to do. Of course, I had, you know, in my head. I know how the flow of how the sequences go, but the intuition, just feeling, just being in my own body. And one of the most beautiful things about teaching yoga is that I can bring to the class whatever I'm feeling too. And I think that energy comes out in the whole class. So it was sort of this exchange of energy between that intuition part, exchange between myself and what my class was doing. So, yeah, and I did that for a really long time. And what now I've settled in is I make an outline and then I feel free to leave the outline. I feel free to whatever I'm feeling. I don't feel like I need to stick with that particular sequence and go. So, yeah, it was a beautiful thing. You know, that intuition part really, really hit me in other places in my life too. Not just in yoga, but actually being able to verbalize things that I want or didn't want according to what I was feeling. I had spent a lot of time kind of ignoring those feelings. And when I tapped into it, and yoga was kind of the key, the catalyst to it all, I started. Yeah, I started being able to be a little freer in my own personal life and, yeah. With friends.
- [12:18]
Courtney Brain
So, yeah. And what I'm hearing in that is vulnerability. So just to give people an idea, the koshers are the five sheets or layers of self. There's the physical body, which is made up of your skin, organs, body, what you eat and that turns into what your body is. There's the energy or the breath body. There's also the mind body, which is inclusive to thoughts and emotions. There's the. What I call. The best way that I can describe it is your collection of life experiences that make you who you are. This culture is more of like your intuition, your inner intellect and wisdom. Basically, like what you've absorbed from life experiences, making you who you really are. When you are out of your head, you're not attached to any single aspect of yourself. And then there's the bliss body, which is who you are in your most pleasurable or desired or happy state. Like, who that person is detached from their other aspects of self. Like, at your core as a happy person, who are you? What makes you happy, who you are in those settings. So as we spoke about that, one of the things that we did was, especially in yoga therapy, right? So much of it is looking at the elements and what the five elements represent. Earth, water, air, ether, fire. And with the elements, they all have different things that they represent. I'll write an article about this and link it in the show notes for more detail. But a lot of it is really just looking at a person having a conversation and feeling where they are, seeing where they are, identifying based on their word choices, what's resonating with them, and using the language that they give in order to identify the imbalances or inconsistencies of those elements. Because we all have each of those five elements within us in our body, in the way that we do things as well. And what we want to do is just restore balance. And that's what a lot of yoga therapy, in my language has been. It's not always through movement or meditation or just breathing that we do things. Sometimes it's practical journaling exercises. And if you're open to it, I'd like to hear about us, like, coming up with your relationship mission statement and then after we talk about this piece, because it seems so unrelated to what you came in for, but this was something that you spoke to on your feedback. So can you speak about, like, what that was for you? Just whatever you have to say about that.
- [14:58]
Melissa
So. And I think what you're asking me is how the yoga therapy spread from not just this thinking about herpes and my herpes diagnosis, but how that integrated into the rest of my life. Is that. Yeah, what you're kind of.
- [15:24]
Courtney Brain
Okay, what a concise question. Yes, that's exactly right.
- [15:29]
Melissa
So, yeah, I think when I found something positive for positive people, I had a very specific thing that I wanted to come for. I wanted to come. Okay, how do I disclose this to partners? And how do I deal with the stigma? I mean, I think those were the two things that I came seeking and. And through yoga therapy, which was a lot of talking in addition to movement, too. I mean, you and I had lots of. Lots of really cool conversations. You learning a lot about me, and me learning a lot about myself. And. And out of that, I came away with how. How I seek relationship or how I'm in relationship with people, how I want to. How I want to be in relationship with people. And the stars work that we did was. It was just. It was great. You'll have to remind me of each letter and what it, what it represented, but I took each letter and worked on it for a different day. So the first day I did S second day, T A, you know, all the way through. And then looking at it, coming up with this mission statement of how, yeah, how I want to be in relationship with people and also, yeah, being able to look at it and see, like, I, I didn't do any of this stuff in seeking a partner before and. But it's what I really wanted. It's what I truly wanted and I came up with them. Yeah, a mission statement. And I mean, I don't have to read it, but, yeah, just. Yeah, it really helped. It was truly amazing.
- [17:48]
Courtney Brain
And just to give people background. The Stars framework is created by Dr. Eveline Dacker, who's one of my board members for Something Positive for positive people. The S stands for safety. T is for turn ons, A is for avoids. R is for relationship intention. And then the second s is for STI status. And this is in episode 299. If you are someone who's wondering to talk to someone about your herpes status. But it's really good for doing on yourself to identify what you need from a partner to feel safe or to be able to have the freedom of experiencing pleasure. Right. To identify your pleasure and safety needs and compatibility with another person. This is a great tool, resource for that. Again, that's episode 299. Thank you so much, Melissa, for speaking to that so we, we can get past the yoga therapy stuff now. And I want to know, like, I want for you to just share your story. Right. So you didn't just look for yoga therapy for something positive for positive people. Obviously something had to happen. So in your own way, in your own words, I just want you to just share your story, what happened in relation to your diagnosis, and then we'll just have a regular conversation from there as you feel comfortable. If there's anything I ask that you're not comfortable with, just let me know. If you go around a thing, I'll pick up on that and we'll just smoothly flow through the conversation.
- [19:24]
Melissa
All right, that sounds great. So I had been married for 30 years and just getting out, getting back into the dating world. And I say getting back into the dating world. And I got married so young that, yeah, I hadn't really dated a lot even prior to that. So very. Yeah, new to me, but also very fun. You know, I was enjoying doing the online dating. Met a couple of guys and dated. Both of, you know, dated for a little while. And then. Yeah, the last guy that I dated, he says he didn't know that he had HSV1 and HSV2. Let me start. Let me. Let me kind of back up. I got really sick, so I came down with a fever of, like, 102. And I had no idea what was going on and thought maybe it was Covid. Thought maybe I had the flu. Then I thought, oh, my gosh, I have a uti. Went to the doctor, had a, you know, UTI test, and it came back negative. And then about two days later, I noticed a sore, and I was, oh, my God, what is going on? I thought maybe it was like, an ingrown hair or something. And I called the gynecologist. She got me in right away. And, you know, she did the exam, and she looked at it and said, yeah, this looks like herpes. And, you know, it didn't. Even though I didn't know this before, you know, I didn't know. It just settled on me. That. Yeah. Yeah, that's what it is. And he just didn't. If he knew, he didn't tell me, but he says he didn't know, and, yeah, I called him out on it. He went and got tested, or he says he went and got tested, and then he told me that he did have HSV 1 and 2. And now I don't know if I have one or not. I know I have two. And it caught. It really caused our. It caused our breakup because I just. Yeah, I just didn't know if he. I didn't trust that he knew or that he didn't know.
- [22:33]
Courtney Brain
When you say it caused our breakup, it wasn't that he gave me herpes, so I don't want to be in this relationship. It was actually more to it than that, right?
- [22:42]
Melissa
It was actually. Yeah. Without going into detail, I guess he had invited me to go for the weekend somewhere. And during all of this, I don't know what I have. I'm sick. He. I couldn't decide if I wanted to go or not. And he gave me a choice. He said, well, we can go or not go, or I can, you know, or I can come there. He lived in a different place in a different city. I can come there. It's like, whatever. And then I made the decision. Once I found out that I had herpes, That I didn't want to go on the trip, and I asked him to come see me, and he got really angry and said that, you know, I didn't want to do what he wanted to do. And I was like, you gave me a choice, dude, and this is what I chose. And so it turned out that, yeah, I was angry at things other than just the herpes. I was angry at his lack of being clear about what it was that he wanted. And then the herpes was in the back of my mind. There was just a lot. And, yeah, looking back on my relationship with him, we were both so vulnerable with one another through texting, and it just wasn't a good way to really get to know somebody.
- [24:30]
Courtney Brain
And in short, this man didn't align with your relationship mission statement.
- [24:38]
Melissa
Right. Right. Yeah, he. Yeah, he just. He wasn't truthful, and. Oh, yeah, it's hard. It's hard, Courtney, to talk about it.
- [25:03]
Courtney Brain
Yeah, I was just gonna.
- [25:04]
Melissa
Ask me something. Yeah. Ask me something else, and let me. Yeah, yeah.
- [25:08]
Courtney Brain
Well, let's talk about that. Let's talk about, like, what you're feeling, because also. Right. Like, we're on this podcast. We're talking about herpes. We're talking about something so taboo and stigmatized, and there are so many layers around that. And also, just so you know, like, if you don't want your face to be out here, I can only release the audio. There's that. And then the second thing, too, is if you're uncomfortable with how this feels or is going for you, like, post it off. So just letting you know. But bear with me. What's coming up for you? Like, what are you feeling?
- [25:43]
Melissa
Yeah, well, I guess I'm. I'm really. I didn't know that this would all come up, and I started talking in this way. Like, I'm. I'm feeling. Yeah. Embarrassed. Like, that starts to come out that I. That I. That I didn't ask about STIs. That I didn't. Yeah, that. That I didn't do what I needed to do in order to protect myself. And I think just working with you has helped me know that I can do that for myself now. But it doesn't stop that little bit of embarrassment. Not a little bit. That embarrassment. That kind of. Yeah. Kind of comes up. Shame. That comes up in this. Yeah. I wasn't who I was. Not expecting this. Yeah.
- [26:46]
Courtney Brain
Well, let me share with you, too. Like, I. I've experienced that embarrassment. Right. Because when I first got diagnosed, when I reached out to my most recent sexual partners, like, it was embarrassing to think about having to tell someone, hey, I might have given you herpes. Right? And on the other side of that was me asking them, do you have herpes? In them, saying, no. For me to just be relieved, like, on the other side of that shame and embarrassment, I would say, is a sense of relief. Now, of course there can be, you know, the, the chaos that could happen, but I also don't think that we have the kinds of lifestyles or people in our life that are going to come at us and be like, oh, of course you have herpes. And I think that's what we oftentimes expect. But the shame piece and the embarrassment piece, right? Like, this is a space where at least 6,000 people a month who are searching and finding something positive for positive people can relate to. So I want to just let you know, like, you're more supported than you probably think you are. The challenges of what's coming up for you and talking about this is absolutely something that over on like episode 3, 70ish, right? There's also that, like, that there are plenty of other people as well who have been exactly where you are, who need to hear this, who are already having gotten something out of you. Just sharing your experience as being somebody who's relatable. You know, how many people can say, you know, that they got herpes from someone and it was a bad situation, but also the being a yoga teacher, also the being divorced, also one of the first people after, you know, you end your marriage and you're able to get back out there in these streets again, only to be met with something that makes being out here more challenging. Right. So there's a lot of elements to your experience, one that are relatable and then two, that like, hope that as you get through where that is coming up for you, it looks like maybe in your chest and your heart and you feel that openness of what you're giving reciprocated in the receiving of all of the love and support that you might get in feedback on the episode, but you might get just energetically from people hearing this and being like, damn, I can relate to that.
- [29:23]
Melissa
Well, you know, while you were talking and while I was just kind of letting myself sort of feel grounded and be. Yeah, this is. You're right. This is what I think that is relatable for people and maybe they can relate to with the anger. Oh, my God. Yeah, I had so much anger that I carried around with me and yeah, I mean, I just, I would literally just growl, you know, yeah, we talked about that. Yeah. Be so angry and just working through that. And I won't say that I don't get angry anymore, because that's still kind of an underlying thing. But just the talking, the movement, man, being in, you know, group with you and seeing that someone else is feeling the same, you know, a similar way. The same way has just been so helpful to help that anger kind of just dissipate, not go away, but just, you know.
- [30:50]
Courtney Brain
I want to ask, like, how are you with the anger, too? Because, you know, we. Yes, we had the exercises of how to manage and navigate that, but has it shifted for you? Is it less intense? Are you doing anything with the anger? What. What. What's your experience of anger now on the other side of yoga therapy?
- [31:15]
Melissa
Yeah, so it's definitely a lot less. And I know I can tell by, like, I journal in the mornings, and my journaling isn't filled with all the angry, you know, and actually. Right. Yeah, actually writing it. Writing my anger out helped. And I loved the. The humming exercise that you gave me where you just hum as you roll your head. And that helped instead of the growl. And then also breathing out of my right nostril. So that was very helpful.
- [32:03]
Courtney Brain
I was going to say. I forget. I got to look it up. If we're talking about which nostril it was, I'm glad you remember I asked.
- [32:08]
Melissa
You, because if you breathe out of your left nostril, it's cool, and your right nostril, it's hot. And I was like, well, wouldn't I want to cool down? You're like, no, you want to match it so that it goes. And I was like, okay, yeah, so right nostril. Yeah. And those. Those things were just tools, as well as child's pose. You know, getting on the floor and stretching my arms above my head and just allowing my head to be above or be below my heart so that I can slow my heartbeat down. And so, yeah, it's really helped with that. And I think once the anger kind of goes and it just allows you to go a little bit deeper. One of the things I kept, that kept coming up for me, too, is working with you allowed me to see patterns in my. In my anger, in my sadness, in my grief that were saml patterns that I had always had. It wasn't new herpes patterns. And so what we were working through was not only helping me through my diagnosis of herpes and through stigma of herpes, it was also helping me in my life with my mother and the life with My, you know, my. Just what's going on in my life. So, yeah, it's. The whole experience has been great. I think I even told you this one time that herpes doesn't have happen in a vacuum. There. There's just so much. And on some level, I'm grateful that I have the opportunity to look at these patterns, to look at. To look. Just go deeper and look and see. Like, doing the stars thing. Like, without herpes, I wouldn't have come up with a mission statement. I wouldn't have been able to really identify what I was looking for in a relationship. And, yeah, I haven't gone back out into the dating world yet. So that's, you know, to be continued. And I'm sure that will offer its own challenges once I decide to do that. Yeah.
- [34:49]
Courtney Brain
Yeah. Thank you for that. I'm hearing in this, right. Like, yoga's been powerful for me in the sense of when I got my diagnosis, this is the thing that I leaned into to help with managing stress and outbreaks. Right. So to have from 20, I guess, 13. It's been about 12 years now that I've been practicing yoga consistently, let me say that. And now, having gone through the yoga therapy component, there is such a therapeutic component to yoga. And what I'm hearing in your experience with me, I'm like, I was thinking to myself, damn, did we even do much yoga? It's much more therapy than it is yoga. And, you know, I don't want to devalue therapists, mental health professionals, coaches, in any way, shape or form. And I'm also not saying that in the way that puts yoga therapy on a pedestal or devalues it, but it does give me a framework, resources, training in order to be able to navigate our conversations and what your challenges are in a therapeutic approach. So would you say that this was more therapy than yoga for anyone who's like, oh, yoga. Like, I don't want to do yoga. I don't want to. I can't do a headstand or anything like that.
- [36:06]
Melissa
Definitely the yoga component, I felt like was a smaller amount of time. But also the whole yoga therapy experience touched both mind, body, and spirit in the sense that we did a lot of talking. You asked me a lot of questions. I got to tell you exactly where I was in every moment. You've. You've heard so many things from me about. Yeah, maybe things you didn't want to know about me.
- [36:44]
Courtney Brain
That's the beauty of the therapist relationship. Right. Like, I never saw myself in a therapist, even though people Would always say, courtney, you should be a therapist. Right. And I started to try and get people access to a therapist in 2020, 2021, when this became a nonprofit. And there were issues with that. So it was very much like divine intervention that yoga therapy came across my life. When it did, I happened to have the availability. It became accessible and available to me. I was in a place where I could understand and grasp some of the concepts. And, yeah, it's very nice to just see that this is something that I can offer that is helpful. Like, coaching never really aligned for me. Teaching yoga classes never really aligned for me. There's a lot fixed to it that always felt like, okay, well, maybe I can just connect people to what they need. But here we are now, like, so seamlessly. This feels so natural to just be able to look at a person, have a conversation about what they're going through, and also touch on not just the relationship to stigma, but also their relationship to relationships, their relationship to their family, their friends, themselves, even. So, yeah, I thank you for saying that. And I feel like you were gonna say some more.
- [38:12]
Melissa
No, I mean, it just. It. It came. It just came to me that the work that we just allowed me, the talking that we did, the you sharing part of your story with me and then, you know, opening up about you allowed me also to open up even more and then carry that openness out. And I don't mean telling everybody, but feeling okay in my body and out in the world. I. Yeah. I don't know if that made any.
- [38:55]
Courtney Brain
Sense, but it did to me. Yeah, it makes sense. It made sense because so much of this is the emotional component. Like, that's really what my focus is. Right? Like, there is a physical element to it. Moving opens things up on an emotional level. And I'm going through that as well in my training, but right now, like, I'm just seeing that so much of what we experience here is emotional. And I often interchangeably use spiritual, energetic, and emotional just for people who maybe don't resonate with the woo woo component, if you want to call it that. And they're very much like the same thing, because what we have to learn from this emotionally is a spiritual journey. If it feels better to call you call this an emotional journey, cool, you can do that. But you came here for healing, and not a lot of people would look at their herpes diagnosis as an avenue for healing, but it really is. Because how much more did you learn about yourself as you started to look at and examine and ask questions around your. Herpes diagnosis.
- [40:08]
Melissa
Right, right. Well, you know, I think I. I think I came to you telling you I'm grieving. Like, that was the. That was the healing process, you know, the. The healing of just the grief that I held the grief of. Yeah, feeling like I was missing out on this new dating life that I had. And. Yeah, feeling like that had been taken from me. And I think grief itself is just a spiritual space for us to be in and sit in. And, yeah, you allowed me to be okay in that. In that grief, too.
- [41:10]
Courtney Brain
On the topic of grief, I want to ask you about that thing that we talked about before the episode. We had a day where you had a session with me right after I had completed some of my own brief work. I journaled and recognized that I had been holding on to grief for 23 years. And I recorded this podcast episode and posted it. 23 years of grief, if you want to check that out. But I came in to our session immediately after putting that, and you said something to me. You're like, yeah, you look, like, lighter, like, what's going on? And I had no intention of, like, coming in and talking about this, but I shared with you what was going on with me. And. And it was so synchronous, or whatever the word is, for me to have had the processing that just occurred for myself around my own experiences with grief and loss of something that I can't really say that I have, but looking at, you know, my perception of abortion and the partner that I had who had an abortion and my relationship to my grandmother who helped my mom, fought for my mom to carry through her pregnancy with me, despite my mother's parents wanting her to get an abortion. And so coming away from that, having had my own process and like, you saw the after effects of my own grief work. And there was a little bit of a parallel there that as much as you want to, I'll let you speak to, and I'll kind of follow your lead with that, but can you speak to that as best you can be?
- [43:03]
Melissa
Yeah. If you remember specifically a little bit better what it is, that will help jar my memory. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [43:13]
Courtney Brain
Well, this was very connected to. We talked about. We talked a little bit about emotional availability and how important emotional connection was for you, and someone in your life had held on to some grief that they were unable to process until you said that you had seen that similar situation regarding grief with this person and how that person, how that person's grieving or not processing grief might have played out in your connection.
- [43:55]
Melissa
Yeah, I Think maybe you're talking about my ex husband. And, yeah, his father died when he was really young and he carried a lot of the grief with him his whole life without even realizing. I don't think realizing that that's what was going on with him. And it caused him. It affected our marriage. It affected how we were. It was just hard to be emotionally available for him. He was hard. And. Yeah. And I had to. I wanted that emotional availability so deeply and so much. And it turned out when. When I was on my own and I was single, I was seeing the same patterns of looking, you know, for people that maybe weren't quite as emotionally available as I thought they were. And is that. Does that speak a little bit to what you're.
- [45:26]
Courtney Brain
Yeah, yeah, it does, because it affected your marriage. And a lot of the work that we do here, especially revolving around emotions, right? Like we're talking about getting people to express, experience, identify their emotions, and then we kind of see some of the end results of what happens when people don't. I do believe that emotional availability is a core of what can keep people together because, yeah, physical attraction, there's one aspect of it doing things for each other, right? Like, if it's a transactional relationship, like, I can go to Walmart or I can go to Target to get things. So if we're talking about companionship, investment, if we're looking at a relationship structure that aligns with those values, right? Like, what's keeping me from going to Target instead of Walmart? And now we look at the y'all. You know, I just feel like Walmart just gets me or people who drink Coke or Pepsi but would never drink the other one. That's another good example. Like, to some people, it's just like, okay, it's cola. Like, I like cola, but it's Coke or Pepsi. Because they speak to that person's identity. When someone is not emotionally available, they can't truly know you, and you can't truly have intimacy with them, and you can't truly, truly know them. So we're talking about 30 years of marriage of, you know, a grief situation from, you know, your ex husband, and also the grieving of a need that you had, which was the emotional availability in your partner, which allows for you to have that intimacy. We talk about the koshers, right? How can you get out of your head in your relationship and into all these aspects of yourself when your intuition, your true you, is telling you, hey, you know, this isn't. This isn't like real this. There's no way that we can connect. And the emotional component being something that is needed for you as we talk through the relationship mission statement, you know, that that speaks to how you can moving forward, identify the kind of relationship that is more likely to work for you because of the importance of that need. So I just thought it was very beautifully timed how I'm coming to you with, like, hey, I just processed grief. And then you bring up this thing in your life, and I never. I was never gonna ask, like, hey, what happened with your marriage? Like, why didn't that work out? Because it didn't seem relevant. But then when it became relevant, relevant, it was like, oh, so that's why emotional connection is so important to you. Because. Because over the last 30 years, you've been fighting for it, and then you just got exhausted, didn't have it, and, you know, here we are.
- [48:20]
Melissa
Right. Right. Well. And, I mean, at this point, I can actually say I'm grateful for where my herpes diagnosis led me to here, because without it, I was still continuing in the same patterns of relationship, even though I'd been through 15 years of talk therapy, dream work, all kinds of things. Looking back in yoga therapy over these same patterns with these, you know, men that I was dating, I was doing the same. It was like I was doing the same thing, and I didn't. I didn't know it. And by working through the stars and talking to you and having this mission statement helped me to see that pattern. And I'm. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. None of the men that I had dated after even came where. Near, close to what I would. What I really wanted out of a relationship. And. And, yeah, the. The last. The last man I dated, it was so interesting because he himself was an amazing listener and would hold lots of space for me to be vulnerable with him. But looking back on it, he was not vulnerable with me. And so I was mistaking, you know, this. His listening and giving me space, which I hadn't had before, for his vulnerability, and he wasn't at all. And so that's very important to me and is very much written in my mission statement that it's reciprocal, allowing me to be vulnerable and then for him also to be vulnerable at the same level, too. Like, there are different levels of vulnerability. Yeah. And I think this modern dating thing is so hard because we get. We get so. Or I did. I got so involved so quickly because texting was. We could be so vulnerable in text. But. Yeah, right.
- [50:47]
Courtney Brain
Can we. Can we put the air quotes with vulnerable? Because it's so it's detached in the sense of you can be whoever you think the other person wants you to be and vice versa. And then like on the phone or in person, you know, like you can't be as spontaneous because there's all these other things that are happening that you're feeling. The non verbal cues, the vocal tonality, the pitch, the, the sounds, the way that a person's carrying themselves, their body language. Right. There's all these factors in person to person communication that don't exist with text. So yeah, you can be more vulnerable, if you will, because there's, there's more of a safety net there, there's a barrier there, a literal barrier as like you, you're not able to be seen.
- [51:44]
Melissa
Right. Yeah, you've got time to think, think about something before, you know, rather than having to say it in real time. And yeah, it's just a, it's a false sense of vulnerability. And I didn't know that. And yeah, that's where this gratitude for herpes actually comes in for me is because I would not have, maybe I would have come to that conclusion, but it would have been much longer. And I feel like this. Yeah, this. Yeah. Set me on a, on a different path.
- [52:27]
Courtney Brain
I very much appreciate that. And just like your willingness to, you know, enter yoga therapy, you know, even with me as a yoga therapist in training, to be here on the podcast and just share your experience. And I gotta ask this too, like, what do you hope that someone in your shoes gets out of listening to this podcast episode from hearing your experience, your story? What do you want them to get out of this?
- [52:55]
Melissa
I want them to feel like I'm not the only one. It can be kind of lonely and isolating and I hope that someone can hear me and go, oh, I'm not the only one. I hope that. Yeah. The, the more people that can come out and say, you know, that they have herpes. I don't know how to put it, but yeah, the less of stigma it will become, the more. I mean, the. Yeah. My gynecologist told me when I was in the office and was diagnosed that 50% of her patients had HSV. And I was like, well, nobody has ever told me that. Or. Yeah. And. And the other thing, that even if you don't have herpes and you're listening to this, that it will help you be okay to be with someone who has herpes. Yeah. Just reducing shame. Yeah. And it becoming just a normal thing. I mean, heck, it's just, it's just like the chickenpox it's not a big, you know, it's just. It really isn't a big deal. What makes it a big deal is we, we've, yeah, we've joked about it and made fun of it and. Yeah, just made it a much bigger deal than it is.
- [54:34]
Courtney Brain
And other than your anger coming to the surface, I want to ask first, were there any other emotions that your diagnosis brought about for you? And then the second part to that question is. Let me just ask that first. Go ahead. I'm sorry.
- [54:51]
Melissa
Oh, well, yeah, the, the. There's just like this huge spectrum of emotions that herpes brought out for me. Everything from anger to shame, just darkness and a place to. Or something to ground me so that I can see. See in the darkness. I know that sounds crazy, but there's light in there too. There is light where I can now have some gratitude for the opportunity that I've been given to learn more about myself.
- [55:38]
Courtney Brain
Yeah, well, you kind of were starting to answer the second thing that I wanted to get from you, which was, you know, we talk about healing happening. I don't think that it ever is done. And you've spoken about having been in therapy in the past. I know that when you and I were working together, you were also working with a coach. There were support groups that you had healing modalities around you. And I just want to know, like, how did yoga therapy fit in with those other things that you had already been doing? That's my question.
- [56:14]
Melissa
So I think it was just a different approach to like really speaking my language of mind, body and spirit and not just addressing emotions and thinking, but addressing movement in that was different than what I had, different than what I had been doing before. And also like how conversational it felt for the two of us in that therapy, that it felt very, like very much of a two way street versus just me doing most of the talking and yeah, somebody listening and interjecting a question every now and then, which I don't want, I don't want to knock that because I learned a lot that way. But yeah, being in conversation was great.
- [57:19]
Courtney Brain
Amazing, amazing. That conversation. I mean, that's really all I have on my end. I thought that that was really cool of you to be willing to have this conversation to share with me your experience with yoga therapy, sharing a little bit of your story and coming on here to just put it out there. And I hope that this has offered you some additional healing for yourself and that you feel a little more empowered to share with your community and invite them more into Your circle, your life and have more depth in the community around you through this. I know that that was something that we talked about when you came, when you filled out the form and I very much appreciate this. Like, thank you. Yeah. Is there anything else that you want to say? I'm looking at our notes that I got from you and.
- [58:17]
Melissa
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, I think that this is. Given me a springboard for the rest of my life. I felt re. Energized and have a new focus to start from now. And I think I've told you I'm a spiritual director and I haven't practiced in a long time and this has given me just a cool place to offer a new focus. So I'm looking forward to. Yeah. Redesigning my website and. And yeah. Learning this new. Yeah. I don't know how I'm gonna. I don't know how I'm gonna jump start it, but it's. It's all in here. It's gonna come out.
- [59:16]
Courtney Brain
Yeah. Well, we want to get it out of here and more in here in the, in the gut area. Right. That's.
- [59:21]
Melissa
That's where we want to be.
- [59:22]
Courtney Brain
Yeah.
- [59:22]
Melissa
Yeah. I think I just. I know, I want to know. Right. I know in my head. I want to know in my heart.
- [59:29]
Courtney Brain
Yes. So we just want to embody this as a whole sense of knowing for ourselves. So I'm going to close this out. If you can just mute yourself and stay on. So we could just chat about how this was for you when I finished the record button. But yeah, this is an inside look at yoga therapy, y'all. Something positive for positive people. Yoga therapy, donation based. Obviously there is a price model there. If that price model does not work for you, please feel free to reach out to me and let me know. I'm happy to work with people. And other people have donated and given more in their own sessions to be able to accommodate for those who might need more assistance. If you're somebody who's interested in being a podcast guest, SPFPP.org podcast scroll down, fill out the intake form and we can set up a day conversation for you to tell your story. One on one support calls are offered donation base as well on the website. Visit spfpp.org not-/herpes support call. All of this is on the website. If you just go through the resources again, we redid the site. It looks cleaner, smoother. It's showing up on Google now depending on what it is that you're looking for. So I'm hype about that. And yeah. Be on the lookout if you haven't already joined our newsletter so that you can be armed of events that are coming up. I am going to be facilitating a. Nope, I just did that. The Herpes Disclosure and Stigma workshop with Plura. We might have to do that again because it was really good, it was successful and a lot of people that got a couple conferences I'll be attending I submitted abstracts for. So maybe I'll be able to present some of our survey data which the surveys out for you to take it. Please share it if you like the survey or if you come across it like please get that out there, share it, send it to your networks. I put it on Reddit, it's on my Instagram social media. So yeah, we want to get as many responses as we can and be on the lookout. All these announcements, but all this to say if you're listening to the podcast, you support the show. I appreciate you being here. Thank you. And I encourage you to just go a little deeper, whether that be to look for community or to look for what the spiritual meaning or significance of herpes can be for you in your life. Till next time, desit.