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Something Positive for Positive People
SPFPP 367: Herpes and Nonmonogamy - Integrated Identities for Vulnerability
01:01:55
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- [00:03]
Courtney Brain
Hello and welcome to Something Positive for Positive People. My name is Courtney Brain. Something Positive for Positive People is a 501c3 nonprofit organization supporting people. Navigating this word across my chest. This word across my chest is stigma. And specifically we're talking about herpes stigma. Whenever we conduct any surveys, which we have one up now, if you go to spfpp.org herpes survey, you'll be able to take the survey, share your experience, and help us with just getting accurate, consistent, relevant information out there to the public about what our experiences are. Navigating Herbie stigma. I have just celebrated my 12 year herpaversary. This past Sunday, March 23rd, I had to do some research and look back and see exactly what day of or what day of the calendar month that was because I remember it was that Saturday when I woke up with symptoms and I tell that story. So, yeah, it was very eventful. I went to one of my favorite restaurants in St. Louis, Missouri, had a burger, gooey butter shake, and it was a very pleasant, just celebration of the herpaversary. This was something that my therapist encouraged me to do. And yeah, if you remember the day, it doesn't have to be like a dreadful reminder. It can just be a gentle check in with yourself to have a moment of gratitude for how far you've come since then. I don't really have announcements. I've been slacking, y'all. I've been telling y'all about the grief I'm experiencing and just how that's kind of been making its way into my efforts of working. And so I'm still doing things and just focusing on remaining consistent and being gentle with myself in the process as I continue to show up and support everybody. So this is my first podcast guest that I had in months. It's been a couple of months. And this is your first podcast interview, is that right, Tamar?
- [02:03]
Tamar Weir
It is, yes. I wasn't aware this is your first one in the season. So I'm feeling very. I'm feeling very honored and this is my first official podcast. Although I like to say that on my phone, you know, there's many I record. I love to record myself and and others speaking when I feel like we're in a good groove. But I'm excited to be here officially.
- [02:29]
Courtney Brain
Yeah. Thank you. And that's just like a smooth segue right into the introduction. So can you just introduce yourself however you want to be introduced?
- [02:38]
Tamar Weir
Yes. My name is Tamar Weir. I use she her pronouns. I am originally. I was born in Napa. California. That's where I'm zooming from. Have mixed ancestry, and I grew up in Napa, California, where it's a very, like, conservative small town. And I spent most of my life here until I went to college. And, you know, I was 18, left this community, went to UC Santa Cruz, which was not too far away. And within my first year of college there, that's when I actually got herpes. HSV2. And so for me, the journey has been through, like, my young adult life, and mostly through my. Almost my whole sexual life has been through the lens of having herpes. So it's been an interesting journey for me.
- [03:35]
Courtney Brain
Yeah. Thank you. And I guess, like, how have you navigated it upon receiving your diagnosis? Can you take us back to the symptoms and then the learning that this is what it was?
- [03:50]
Tamar Weir
Yeah, of course. So I don't. I would love to. Feeling inspired to go back and see the day. Like you to do an anniversary. I. Off the top of my head, I don't remember the day, but I do remember it was within my first year, after a few months of starting school, college, and I was dating this man who we had, like, a very long distance. He lived in another country. We were kind of longdistance lovers, and we would see each other every few months. And I remember after winter break and we had seen each other and reunited. I was with my sister and now her husband, but then boyfriend in her little apartment in Berkeley. And we had just eaten really good food, and I just started to feel some, like, pain and. And discomfort in the genital area. And I was like, oh, what is. You know, I've had UTIs before. I've had yeast infections. I was just trying to diagnose myself with, you know, these things that I've had in the past, and was like, what is this? And I remember I. They said, go to the bathroom and take a picture. Like, we'll look at it if you want. And I was very close with them. So I was like, yes, please. Like, I don't. I don't have, like, a framework for what this could be, you know? And so I went to the bathroom. I used, like, the flash photography on my iPhone and was, like, taking lots of photos and trying to get the angle, and just, like, was like, what is going on? And came outside of the bathroom and showed them all and was actually my sister's boyfriend, who's now very close to him, and he's part of the family, but he was like, hey, like, I'm not, you know, I'm not a Doctor. But I think that's herpes. Like, do you want. What do you want to do? Like, I think. I think that's what this is. And then I just was like, whoa. And the whole conversation opened up from there. And I went to the doctor. I went to Kaiser a few days later. And I remember just being, like, so sterile in such a cold place. And I hadn't had, like, great experiences up until then either at, like, the general health care facilities. And so I already, you know, walked into. Into it, not expecting much. And from my own personal experience with, like, the care that I've gotten and just, you know, the attitud that has been presented to me through the care, like, when I was 16, I remember telling them I had many sexual partners, and they labeled me on my file, like, as a forever diagnosis, as a high risk sexual teen, just because I was open that I was not monogamous. So there's been, like, various things, right? So I walked into it and yeah, the. The female doctor, she just was very factual. She, you know, swapped me. And when the results came back and she. And she could also visually see because I was having an outbreak at the time that I went to the clinic, the doctor, she was like, yeah, you have herpes. Here's a pamphlet, you know, about the info. And, like, you're good. I don't even remember what she said. It was just the feeling of, like, okay, this is not a space for connection or like a conversation. So I took the pamphlet and, you know, walked. Walked out of there and was just equally as confused as before.
- [07:24]
Courtney Brain
Mm. That was a very similar experience that I had. Was just getting a pamphlet, like, and you're just getting the cold, matter of fact, to the point stuff. And I always say that pamphlet didn't tell me anything. It gave me confusing statistics. It was like 1 in 6, 1 in 5, 1 and 4, 1 and 3, 1 and 2, and just said, like, these variations of herpes. And I know the intention of that is to share how common it is, but that did nothing for me because I didn't know any of these people. Nobody around me is living with herpes, so how am I supposed to, like, feel connected to. In fact, that number in that pamphlet really just made it feel significantly more isolating, in fact. Is that a similar experience that you had from it?
- [08:12]
Tamar Weir
Yeah, I was gonna say, like, very similar to that. You know, a pamphlet's nice, but it's not the only thing. It shouldn't be, like, the first thing that gets provided to somebody. You know, I think in any situation, I think like, you know, words and just like simple, maybe eye contact and just like a simple moment is much more important for me at least you know, than a pamphlet that I could find that information on Google, which I did after that went to a whole Google explosion, you know, and that's not helpful sometimes either. Right. It's just like we want to know that we're not alone. I wanted to know that it was going to be okay. I didn't, I didn't need to know that first day like every statistic there was to then, you know, become a doctor on this subject. Like, I don't need to know everything. But. Yeah, I just remember like being so confused and you know, turning to that partner that I had at the time and being like, hey, I'm not mad, I just, I'm very confused. Like, you know, I just got diagnosed. Like I said, it's seems that I have HSV2. Like, I didn't know that you had anything. Like, can we talk about this? And I just remember him being like, oh yeah, you know, but I have it on my lips, like on my mouth. It's, it's never was anything to share. Like, I, I'm sorry, I don't know what to say. Like, just. He was equally confused and, you know, uneducated on kind of the connection of the two. Right. He's like, I've had it since childhood. Like, I just, I don't tell people because I don't. I didn't think it mattered, you know, and that was a mind opening moment for me as well. Just on the like, connections of like, what is an sti, you know, because yeah, it can be transmitted sexually and. But oftentimes it's not, you know, oftentimes it's, I, I mean, through. To me it was transmitted sexually. But I've met many people where it's like, there's no sex involved, you know.
- [10:19]
Courtney Brain
Yeah. So you said you were diagnosed with HSV2. He gets cold sores, which is commonly just referred to as HSV1 though. Did you, is that, did he have type 2 on his lips or were you giving.
- [10:32]
Tamar Weir
He didn't give me specifics, but through what I thought, through what we had discussed, he had HSV2, I think, on his lips and then went down on me, you know, transferred it from the mouth to the vulva and then, which was interesting because I didn't notice that he had any cold sores. But, you know, it's always, there's always a chance and so that's why you know, communication is important, but through, you know, knowing this and then doing my own deep dive and exploring it more on a personal side. Like, I. I know that there is that kind of disconnect from, you know, people thinking that it's worthy to share if it's only, you know, on your mouth, because we don't see in, like, the larger context that the mouth can also be a sexual place if you want. Not that it always has to be, but, like, that our bodies are more than just, you know, our gen. So I think, like, there's that disconnect, you know, with sti, where, you know, some people don't share because they don't think, you know, it's necessary. And then, you know, some people do think it's necessary. So there's kind of that. It's not always in the same conversation.
- [11:45]
Courtney Brain
Yeah, you were very supported at the first signs of symptoms. Do you think that that played a role in your reaction to when you found out that it was, in fact, herpes?
- [11:58]
Tamar Weir
Yeah, that's a great question. I think it had a huge impact on me. I think having people who were older than me, my sister and her husband, they're 10 years older than me. They're big role models for me in my life on, like, love in general and intimacy. So they were already kind of my guideline, like, my framework for, like, things that I want to implement in my. In my life and my love and sexual and intimate life. Like, I saw them and was or was always inspired by them, you know, that they were the only, like, healthy model that I had. And so, yes, completely, like, when this happened and they were there for me, I look back to that and I'm like, I think that, you know, the universe wanted them to be there because I didn't see them often at that time period. I was in college and I was doing my own thing. And the fact that we were all together that. That night, I think played a big role, just knowing that they were there for me. And, you know, he's casually like, I think it's herpes. You know, like, not in a way to, you know, diminish. But he was there and my sister was there, and they were just kind of like, you know, whatever you need, but this is. This is what we think. And. And, you know, we'll get through this. And, yeah, I think, like, it still, even if there is support, I think it's still easy to go down a spiral because I think, you know, there can be the safe container of your home. But then, you know, Once you go out of those doors, society is just as you. As your shirt says, there's just still such a stigma, you know. And so I think completely like if you have support at home or, or some sort of network that's makes such a huge difference. And at the same time, like, you know, when you walk out of those doors, it's just not a very safe place to be openly explorative, you know.
- [13:56]
Courtney Brain
So you speak about the openly explorative piece and you and I connected because I saw that you had posted or shared the. You shared that you have herpes. Can you tell me a little bit about sharing that and what that was about for you?
- [14:16]
Tamar Weir
Yeah. So it's been a long journey in terms of like the sharing aspect. I always felt that I was very open about wanting to share my experience. You know, the first few years it was like not necessarily with the world, but I felt it was important to share with the people around me, you know, and I was like the main educator in all of my circles, which I've written pieces about because it's exhausting. And yeah, you know, just because you have one identity doesn't mean you need to be the spokesperson for an entire situation and experience. So I took that role heavy on and was like, I knew every fact, you know, was like the person to talk to. Like with all my new sexual partners, I was, you know, basically their only basis of information for this. So I was like, here's what you have to know. I was just exhausted by feeling like I had to educate in order to like prove to people something, you know. Then when I let go of that after a few, the first few years, I started to just, you know, if people wanted to know more, I started to lean into that because it is an experience that I can share, but less in the way that it was like I need to be doing this to get some sort of self worth from you understanding me and more so from a place of like I have, if I have the energy right now, I. We can share this moment together where we learn and I can share something. And maybe you can also share something of your body too. Like, I'm sure you have many things about your body to share too, but all of the emphasis is getting put on that I have an sti. But what do you want to share about your body? Like, I'm sure there's something for you being a person with a body, right? So it was like shifting that where it's like I have to tell you something and we're just like, what are we going to say right now together? Like, there's many things to talk about, but in terms of like the digital lens, I, a few years ago started enrolling in courses. It became clear to me that I wanted to incorporate this in my work, in my profession. And I signed up for some courses to become a sex educator, sex and intimacy coach, kind of combine those two. And I'm still in school working for that and just thought it would be fun and put myself kind of in a scary zone of putting myself on the digital realm. And started a blog which I'm very passionate about. I have about 30 views on my, on my weekly writings that I do. I write a post once a week about not only herpes, there's actually only been a few about that even. It's more just in general like sexuality and taboos and my own life stories and, and read some research too that I find interesting. So I write once a week and I kind of started with that, which was kind of baby steps. It's not, it's very public. But also if you try to look it up, it does not come up the first few tries. It's very hidden. It's the free version, so it's not, it's not getting viewed a lot. Right. And then I just started my Instagram page that is for my business and it's called Pomegranate Pleasure. And that's where I was starting to, you know, post some, something about my life, some things about herpes, some things about sexuality as a whole, some things about fruit, like how, you know, sensuality is connected to it all. That's the name, right? Pomegranate Pleasure. We can get into that later too. But just kind of the, the connections of so many things that I think are beyond just, just like sexuality, you know, like so many things.
- [18:12]
Courtney Brain
So yeah, yeah. You mentioned being the go to person to talk about sexual health, whether that be with friends, partners. One of the things that I want to ask, I wanted to ask you earlier, I was glad I was able to hold on to it is really, what kind of boundaries do you have for yourself in regards to. Because you mentioned earlier you're not monogamous. Is that right?
- [18:34]
Tamar Weir
Yeah.
- [18:35]
Courtney Brain
So in dating and having to have this conversation multiple times, like there are people who dread having the conversation one time. Right. And everything that goes into that, oh my God, how am I going to tell this person? What am I going to tell this person? Where are we going to be when I tell them? What happens if they say they don't like it and you spoke to a couple of things too that we may be able to touch on. But my question for you is how do you navigate like the disclosure fatigue, if you will. And what I mean by that is just like having to initiate the conversation or maybe it's initiated with you too. But yeah, that's what I'm curious about. Just like if you have any self care practices for navigating that conversation multiple times.
- [19:22]
Tamar Weir
Yeah, you know, I think it's a really good question because it's like in the be. I think my lens and like my approach has changed a lot and I, I feel like that's valuable because everyone goes through just their life seasons, right. And it's like every season there's something that happens, there's something that changes. And as I was sharing, yeah in the beginning it was like I put all this pressure on myself to be educating everyone, my friends, my family and, and it was a way that I, I got some, that I felt powerful, you know, so it had its use in the time. It was a way that I felt engage in a way that I had control in something like, okay, at least you know, I have the control of learning more about this and educating people. Right. But it, yeah, it was exhausting and it was coming from a deeper insecurity, right. Which was to feel valued and to feel worthy because if somebody was listening to my information and accepting, accepting this, right. Because of the way I presented it, or you know, I'm so motivational, inspiring, whatever, then there I get, you know, validation and I'm valued and I'm worthy through, through that. Right. So it wasn't, it did come from a deeper insecurity, you know, and so unpacking that and releasing that was very helpful because in the beginning I would, I was also non monogamous when I first got herpes. I've been like exploring this relationship style for as long as I've actually had herpes. So they kind of go hand in hand for me, which is interesting in terms of disclosure because I've had, yeah, I've had to tell a lot of people. And yeah, in the beginning it was just like so nerve wracking and so much anxiety in the body, you know, and not, not enough anxiety to like completely shut me down from sharing because I did have a deep desire to explore non monogamy for the first time. So it was like this interesting combination of okay, a part of me is feeling very judged and shut down by society with this herpes and another part of me is also like just Stepping into exploring relationship styles. And that entails putting myself in uncomfortable situations that I haven't been in. Like, that is putting myself in hard conversations because I'm. I'm completely opening, breaking open and really unpacking the way that I've had relationships in the past. Right. Like, so it kind of came hand in hand, which was hard for me. But I also think that they both, both of these, like, new identities and experiences, I think are very linked in. At least they were for me. And so, yeah, I went through all these different ways of at the time, self care right through disclosure. The beginning was highly educated, like, education. The second kind of season, I like to call it was like really not telling people until like the second or third date just to really. Because the first experience was like, I'm telling them the first day. Like, I'm putting it out there. It's all education. Like, I don't want to waste my time. I don't want to waste their time. And then the second season was like, well, that's valuable. But also like, do I share every intimate thing about myself the first time I meet somebody? No. Unless they're inviting for that space, maybe. But it's like I'm not sharing every deep thing about myself to a person. I. I know from this one, our first moment together. Right. So the second season was kind of more like understanding my intuition and discerning like when it felt right to disclose. Because there, I don't think there is a set rule. Right. I mean, it's like, oh, do you say the first day? Do you say the third? Like, yes, I think that you always should before there becomes you a sexual moment. But other than that, for me, it's like, that is really where the intuition comes in or kind of like tuning into your body. Because it was like, then I. I created this strict rule, like, okay, not on the first time I see somebody, but like the second or third just to really see like if they were the type of person that could like hold that, like if it was worth sharing and like giving so much of myself. Because as you were sharing, it's exhausting. And it's, you know, initiating. It's a whole thing. It's very fatiguing. And so that was a different season. And that was useful just as a way to connect with myself more, but also had its cons because, you know, I was kind of re, like switching the role, like, oh, is that person worthy to know this about me? You know, and like, oh, is that person. Right? And putting so much pressure on Them too, because no one's perfect. But it was like this role reversal where it was just like I'm not going to tell them until later on because they don't get to know this about me. And while I think all, all of those feelings are valid, it's just like they went from one extreme in a season to another. And now many years later, I have a different approach too. And now I am not attached to one or the other. Really for me it's more like I like to tell people. I like to disclose when I feel like the conversation has been opened. And the sad thing for me is that I feel that oftentimes it's always put on the person who has an STI to open this conversation. And you know, for me like I'm always opening conversations with, with, you know, romances, with lovers, with friends really because of the non monogamous experience of my life too. So like that just requires a lot of communication. And so I'm always checking in like how are you? You know, I have, what's, what's your energy for this? Like I have this other person. Like there's always kind of a check in with me in terms of the body because in a non monogamous relationship style, like the way I like to go about it is like being really transparent and you know, if there's other sexual lovers, it's, that's just what needs to happen. So I think that has gone hand in hand in a way because when you are monogamous the assumption is right. Like they will never cheat on me, I will never cheat on them. That it's, you can only get this sexually. Like there's just a lot of assumptions of, of right. Like we don't need to talk about this or maybe we say it one time and it's like, you know, and I think the beautiful thing about being non monogamous is that it's like constantly an invitation for that conversation amongst many. Right. And I'm still working on the self care. Like, you know, it's exhausting still, it still makes me nervous sometimes. Like sharing it makes me nervous. Just in the body I think the body holds on to a lot. Like in my mind I'm not nervous anymore. In my mind I feel confident and I feel, I feel good. You know, I, I don't, I don't feel the way I used to feel about this. But in the body it's still, there's still those feelings of nerves. Just, I think it stays.
- [26:47]
Courtney Brain
Do you let partners that you have disclose on your Behalf to other partners that they have. Like, do they share, hey, I have a partner who has herpes? Or do they say day, like, oh, yeah, you know, my partner Tamar, Yeah, she has herpes. How did. How does that get navigated for you?
- [27:08]
Tamar Weir
I mean, that's an interesting question, because that is. I kind of, like, let that be a conversation through my relationships. Like, the more I've found that people. I mean, I think there's just a lack of general. We know this sexual education as a whole. Like, people don't really care. And the thing about it is, is that like. Like, I. I tell everyone, right? Especially, you know, before we're gonna engage in some sort of, like, intimacy together, physical. And, like, I am very open about if that other person, you know, wants to share and feels that it's at that point of sharing with their other partner. Right? But most people, like, don't really want to share that, I find. Not because I don't know the reason fully. I. I find that, you know, there's been a few instances in relationships where my partner has shared, like, oh, just so you know, my other partner, you know, Tamar, like, you know her, she, you know, we've dated for years. Like, she has this. But most people, it's just not something I think that they think because they're like, okay, well, if we're using, you know, protection, if we have, like, our flow, we know how to be somewhat safe. Although there's always a risk, right? Then unless that other person is asking me specifically, like, I'm not gonna share about you. Unless that's like, the container is open for that. So that's kind of like a. It's. That's kind of an interesting one, you know, Like, I. I don't have a clear answer. I think that, you know, all parties need to open the conversation, right? Like, then it becomes the question of, like, okay, is it my partner's responsibility, too, to share with their partners, right? Is it now their responsibility or. Or whose responsibility is it even to open an honest dialogue about sex before you have it? Like, is it the. Is it only mine? You know, is it only my partners? Because now they're in relationship to me, right? And my body. So it's like, that's a tricky one. And I've had different relationships that have done different things. You know, I've had some partners that do share, like, only if their other partner is longer term. Because if it's maybe a one night, they don't, you know, because that person didn't ask. I have Some that always share, you know, and I'm pretty open about it. I usually tell people, like, share about whatever you want about me. Like, if it feels useful for you, share.
- [29:38]
Courtney Brain
So thank you. And the reason that I ask is because I do wonder how many people maybe don't know that they have it, right? Like, even being sexually active with someone who does have herpes, right? Time passes eventually. Like, maybe there's some shedding happening before you've had symptoms and passing it on to a partner, and then that partner's like, I don't know where this came from. And now that person, you know, may or may not shut down or shut themselves out. I've spoken to a lot of people in the swinger community, specifically who, if they get it, they're just, like, out of it because they don't want to tell people and that they might get, like, just ostracized from the community, their community in general. And it's very interesting because in spaces where people are having sex with multiple people, you would think that there would be more understanding and communication and compassion, even for, like, hey, this is a real possibility. But people didn't just, like, shut out.
- [30:49]
Tamar Weir
Yeah, that's so real. Like, it's. I feel like just that phrase, it's a real possibility, like, should just be incorporated in many of these conversations. Like, there are many real possibilities with sex. Like, and then let that. And then, like, there's the dot, dot, dot. And there's so many other, like, so many things, right? There's a real possibilities. Like, there's many situation, many feelings, many experiences, sensations, you know? And, like, your story of talking with so many people made me think about, like, the first time I went to, like, a sex kink club, right? And I had already had herpes and was, like, so nervous and was like, why am I so. Why am I so nervous? Like, I'm. Nobody's pressuring me to go to this. Like, I. I'm curious. I want to. And I just remember feeling like, okay, but everyone else there is just going to be like, whatever, going with the moment, and I have to stop each person and be like, hey, you know, I'm Tamar. This is my body. This is what I have. This is what I like. Like, I have to be that person. Well, I don't have to, but I'm going, that is me, right? And I just remember feeling so nervous, like, oh, what are these people gonna think? You know? Which is so funny because it's literally a space that. Where so many bodies are here. Like, what. What do people expect. Right. What are we doing? And that people that I did engage with that night, they were very sweet. Like, it was fine. They. They were okay with that. They felt comfortable. There was no issue, really. But just that, I mean, that was my experience. Right. With those few people that I engaged with that night. So it can go many ways. I'm sure many people have the other side of that, where those spaces are not safe in that sense. Right. And there is a lot of judgment. And I do feel that, like, not all spaces. Right. Are open and people have their own, like, hidden fears. Like, that experience was pretty positive for me. But, like, their. People have very intense reactions to your experience, you know, and it's not even your experience. It's like their own experience through you. But people.
- [32:53]
Courtney Brain
Yeah, that was deep. Yeah. Like, people are having their experience through your experience that they're having as a result of your experiences, navigating experiences that they've had. And now you're responding to their experience. Right. It's just real interconnected. The. Yeah, the. The disclosing in settings like that, kink, bdsm, non monogamy settings, play parties, sex clubs, that is such a different approach because everything is more fast. Right. Like, like you're in that period of time where maybe someone's more comfortable with, oh, I gotta get to know you first. Like, first date, second date, third date. See some consistency. This is the same person. And in the more sex positive settings, there's kind of this spectrum of extremes of, oh, you know, I don't care about that. I don't care at all, which is kind of scary. And then on the other end, it's like, oh, you know, well, I don't care. Everybody has it. Or, you know, the. The way that I'm trying to position it as is you can have two completely emotionally different responses saying the same words. It's not a big deal. Because then it's like, oh, is it? Is. What else is not a big deal to you? And then on the other end, it's like, very warm and welcoming and well received of. Yeah, I don't see this as a big deal.
- [34:19]
Tamar Weir
Yeah, it's so interesting, like, you're saying, because, yeah, everyone has their own, like, opinions. Right. It's no big deal. Or like, yeah, like, it's. I see what you're saying, but for me, it's fine. Right. Like, it's all good, no stress. Like, thank you for telling me. Right. There's all these approaches, and I was noticing too, like, people's reactions. I think you Know, I did a lot of traveling when I was young, and I've lived in a few places that are not the US And I have noticed, you know, I haven't. I've. This is in my very specific context of living in a few places. But just generally speaking, through my experience, I've noticed, like, when I disclose and I'm not in the US People do not care. Like, the amount of funny things that people have told me. And, like, yeah, looking back now, I'm like, they should have cared a little bit. But, like, just looking at it from, like, a lens of a little bit of separation from this is a little bit of a while ago, but, like, nobody cared. Like, I can count and nobody was judgmental. Like, maybe a little bit to the extreme of, like, whatever, right? But, like, this is not a big deal, but I just think that there is, like, culturally specific in the US like, this large stigma and. And lack of sex education, like, so many topics that I think this is a very nuanced subject, of course. But I think through my experience of speaking with people about sexuality and, like, having to disclose myself and open that conversation, a lot of people do not care. And other countries I've been to with other cultural identities, they're like, okay, like, cool. Or, oh, yeah, I've heard of that. It's fine. Or, oh, I don't know much, but I'm not like, what you're telling me. I don't. That's not, like, where's the stigma? I don't. I. Like, there's no issue here for me. Let's just, like, keep. Keep the sensuality going. Like, we don't need to. This doesn't need to be, like, a hindrance for us. And I was like, oh, really? Because my experience in the US Was so, like, shame. So, like, oh, okay, I have to disclose to you right now and be serious. And, like, you're gonna have your experience, which is so valid, but, like, you're gonna have your experience, and then I have to help you process your experience about my experience, and then you're probably most likely from my experience, you're gonna, you know, reject me, and then you're gonna feel shitty. I'm gonna feel shitty, and then I'm gonna, you know, try to be open with a new person. They might accept me, but still, I have to, like, convince them, you know, of all these things, why. It's so. It's just I find fascinating, like, through my experiences of culturally, like, in the US and in other places, I just almost always, like, this is like 85 true in my life. Like the people in other countries that I've shared intimate moments with, they don't care. And I don't know if it's because in the other countries I've been to, people are just more sexually open. So it's like, okay, herpes is not a big deal in the sense that it's like if you take care of your body, like it's, it's a small experience, like physically maybe that you're having. So it's like, okay, we all have our physical things, we all have our, you know, situations of our body. So it's like, okay. Or I don't know if it's not a big deal because maybe the education on it is not so stigmatizing or maybe there's a lack of education. Really would depend on the place. But most people, they're not caring in the sense of the stigma that has been put onto me through disclosure in the US at least. It's really interesting.
- [37:50]
Courtney Brain
Yeah, I view stigma as a luxury in a way. I think about where it comes from and it's like there was a woman that I had reached out to me who we had a support call and she was in Africa and at the time she had symptoms and she went in to get tested, treated and her doctor was like, well or no, no, no, she wanted to know how to talk about it. That's what it was. And she was like, herpes, like, what do you mean herpes? Like we have real diseases over here. Yeah, she said that. I was like, oh, that's a big, that's a bar right there. Because something that is so minor for most people, like this thing is actually more of a luxury. And in the US sex sells. And so the more like controlled sex and sexuality and women's bodies are like, we see that this is a lot of, there's a lot of money involved. The monetization of the just sexuality in general, the monetization of what people do as a result of stigma going into the shame and the fear based energy and then moving forward in a way where this kind of thing just continues to perpetuate itself. And I think that your experience in other countries is very reflective on like this not being an issue. Because I don't think that the medical system in other countries is like, hey, let's sell Valtrex, like, let's sell this herpes medication.
- [39:31]
Tamar Weir
Yeah, it's so true. It is so true. And through so much like research and experience, like personal experience, I still find myself learning a lot Like, I think, you know, that they could definitely improve the pamphlets. Like, I always think about, like, what I would have liked to hear, right? And, like, what information is given in the US versus other places. And it's just really fascinating. I think, like, that it is very culturally specific. And I mean, I remember the first few years, I always. I mean, I took a Ciclovir, which is, you know, one of the antivirals, and that was, like, the only thing that told me about health. You know, like, they were like, okay, take this. Like, if you don't want to have outbreaks or if you want to minimize them, take this, and, like, you're good. That was literally all she told me. So here I am. And, you know, I'm 18. I'm just barely, you know, figuring myself out. I'm like, okay, I'll take this, I guess every day. Like, I guess I'm dependent on this every day. I don't know. Like, am I okay? I'm taking this every day with my vitamin C. Like, this is my life now. I don't know. I just was so confusing. And only through my own research and, like, experience talking with people and being open about it did I realize, like. Like, oh, there's so many other pathways, like, and I think that's the case for literally everything, right? But what gets pushed is this a sleeclover, which can be so useful for some people. There's, you know, no shade about it, but it's just like, if that's the only thing that you're given an option for in your healing, it's, like, very limiting. And, yeah, now. Now, personally, I don't take that anymore. I just haven't felt the need to. And for my own body, because I, you know, I've had this for a long time. I kind of know what's going on. And I have my other ways of just, like, feeling good when I, you know, feel an outbreak or I kind of just let it go through my body in the course that it needs to. But, yeah, I am somebody who gets frequent outbreaks. So it is, like, in. In the past, it was like, always, like, oh, I have to take this away, right? Like, I have to get rid of this. I have to take. Take this antiviral to get rid of this. Because the goal is not to have this, right? The goal is to have this as least as little as possible, right? And I don't really think that's the goal for me anymore. Through. Through just experiencing my own experience and also just through knowing my body and like you were saying, like, I've had so many harder experiences on my physical body than this herpes, like, throughout the years. Like, even a UTI for me is so much more painful. So it's like, there's so many experiences that I have from the year to year that are more painful, that physically is more annoying, more challenging, like, in that sense of, like, the physical aspect of it. So I think that it's also been a beautiful experience because it's like, yeah, this thing is so stigmatized. It holds so much weight emotionally and physically. It is. Is uncomfortable. There's so many things that come with it. And at the same time, I've had so many other physical experiences since then of, like, symptoms in my body of sicknesses, of whatever that are so much more intense. So it's like, it's just one small aspect of something that remains always. But, like, I don't feel the need anymore to make it go away because it has its natural course, right? It's. It's, you know, in a week, it will be gone. It's fine. Like, it's. It's something that's coming through the body, and I see it more so now. It's like, okay, it's the winter sickness. Like, it's like when you get sick in the winter, like, you know, maybe for a week you have some symptoms. You're weak, right? You're feeling, like, not your full self. You need time to rest, and, like, you're going to be. Hopefully you're going to be rejuvenated in a week or two, right? So that's kind of how I see it now for my own self. But, yeah, it gets pushed all these, you know, medicines and. And whatnot. It definitely is culturally specific with that.
- [43:45]
Courtney Brain
And make an effort to give people the opportunity to let their bodies do what their bodies want to do when it comes to having an outbreak, Take the medication as needed to get immediately on the medication or to be like, oh, you know, I have a new partner. I'm gonna start taking this medication and doing that for them. It kind of feels a little bit like bargaining to make a person want to be with you. And one of the things that I wanted to speak to as you were talking is how I think that people who do move forward, who are accepting, who don't reject however we want to word it, they want to be with you more than they don't want herpes. And I think people overlook that, and they try so hard to minimize and prevent herpes from being passed on to the partner. But the reality is that it's an inevitable risk. People ask me all the time about transmission rates and they're like, oh, I have this new partner, I just want to share some transmission rates. And I'm like, you will never give them the information that they actually want or can benefit from, which is, how do I prevent myself from getting it? And that information does not exist anywhere. So I try and encourage people to, you know, give enough information and just be with people who like and want you more than they don't want herpes. Because that's really what moving forward means.
- [45:14]
Tamar Weir
Yeah, that's such a great point. I think. Like, yeah, that conversation, it's not out there. It's very limited information stigma. The information on that is like the statistics very, very all over the Internet. You can find that fast. But it's like, even with my own healing, like you're saying, like that what do you do to take, what do you do to prevent that in yourself? Like, in a larger sense? Like, how do you take care of your body, you know, and your mind and like your, your, your spiritual being? Like, how do you take care of yourself? And, and for me, that's directly related. Like, if I am sick with, like, as I said, the winter flu, oh, I'm getting an outbreak just because my body is not happy, you know. And so for me, it's like very stress related. And I didn't know that for years. I'd just be like, oh, I have another outbreak. Wonder why? Like, because nobody was telling me, like, okay, tap into your body and like, why, like, what, what does it mean when we get sick, right? Like, what does it mean when we feel this way? Like, you know, there's always a connection. So I just always thought it's isolated, like, oh, I just have an outbreak and it's March. Oh, I have one in May. Like, I just. There was no connection for me, right? And once I started to really, like, kind of create a journal, create a log in my brain at least of like, okay, what's happening in my life right now? Like, how is this connected? And it was always almost connected to stress. Either like emotional stress, or if I was already sick, like my body is already in physical stress, then almost always I would get a herpes outbreak too. And like, I think that's valuable to know because our bodies give us so much information and through that information we can, you know, use that as our, like, our guiding principles, right? Like, if it's not on Google, if people don't know this, like, what does, what does Our body know and it knows a lot. At least I'm learning through my own that yeah, it knows a lot. And I always get outbreaks when I'm stressed, right. So for me that's the biggest thing. It's just learning about that and like telling partners, you know, this happens to me most when I'm stressed, right. So that's my main prevention is like, okay, what can I do to make my body feel less stressed? Okay, I can do this for my body. I can take these vitamins that help me like in the everyday to not get sick. Because when I get sick, almost always I get an outbreak. Like just these things. And it's not, that's not the case for everyone. Like you're saying, for some people they want to take the antiviral, for some people they want to do a combo. You know, it's, it's very expansive in the way of like healing is expansive. It's not one thing for every person. It's, it's different. But I think generally speaking, like taking care of yourself and is goes a long way in the sense of the physical and the emotional, you know, and like as you said, it's always a risk, right? So just, it is always a risk. And I mean for me it doesn't feel like a huge risk after like knowing how it is in my body. But I don't say that to minimize the experience because it's also a very large experience and big part of my life. Right. But I just always think now, like, okay, if I were to get diagnosed in this year of 2025, like, what tools? Like how would I, how would this be now? Right. I always think about that.
- [48:36]
Courtney Brain
I want to ask because we're getting to the hour point and I wanted to just ask it. It's flown by your diagnosis and disclosing non monogamy versus disclosing herpes. That was one of the things I wanted to touch on. And then I wanted to touch on the how if it has impacted you vulnerability. Because especially in the dating world today, there's a lot of emotional avoidance seemingly in dating culture because you have to navigate a lot of emotionally exhausting things, maybe ghosting, right. Learning things about people that don't align boundaries, not matching up, the time is invested right there. All these things that you kind of have to be detached from in order to be able to cope with the potential traumatizations of dating. And now you being someone who openly just you, you date or you are non monogamous. And I know that looks different for A number of people. But for you, I'm curious about how your diagnosis and, and maybe like vulnerability or dating has changed for you, but that's been your entire sexual life, so it's hard to really answer that question. I think a better way of asking it is, has herpes tapped into any kind of vulnerability for you with partners? Like having to have that conversation?
- [50:12]
Tamar Weir
Yeah, that's a great, great question. Yeah, it's so interesting. For me, I love. This is why I love to hear people's stories, because for me, it's like almost my whole sexual being is in connection with my relationship style. Like, it's just all connected. I think just because of the age and, and what place I was in in life, I explored sexually like at a pretty young age. So I do have some experiences before I had herpes, but most of them very basic. Kind of the classic story in the US of just like, no education, very P in the V, like penetration only, not a lot of exploration. So my experiences before that were like, okay, I hope this gets better. This is like just pretty. Not interesting, pretty boring. And, you know, I'm still gonna try because it's interesting to me. But what is. This is not very. It's not very, like, inspirational for life. So my, my more explorative sexual experiences are. Have been with herpes, right? And with this non monogamous lens. And I think feel very grateful for both of them in the sense of vulnerability. Because I really learn, had to learn how to advocate for myself in like, very specific ways. And I don't. I mean, there's still moments where I'm not perfect at this. I don't think anyone is. But like, especially with the non monogamy, like, I think it's different than herpes in a way, in many ways. But for one way, it's like the herpes is kind of something that happened, right? There was choice and there was responsibility and agency involved. But it's kind of something. It's not like I asked for this, right? And in non monogamy, I did ask for this. I want this, right? I actively was seeking this out. Nobody's telling me you have to be this way and now you have this, right? So it's different in that sense of like, the approaches have been different because of just the nature of the two, right? With the non monogamy, I'm so excited by it. Like, when I first started, it just felt like the world opened up for me. Things started to make sense. I was like, so excited. I'm like, what is Love, like just opening these doors, right? Just like, what is human connection? And then I had to learn that also the hard way. Like, okay, people, what is human connection in the sense that so many people are rejecting me, right? So many people are telling me these things about who I am. And so like, the two definitely helped me be vulnerable because they were always linked, but they also. It was also very challenging because I felt like I had to open the conversation in many ways. Not. It's like, okay, here's the herpes. Oh, also, this is my relationship style. Like, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now, Now I'm suddenly educating you on non monogamy to like, so many different things, right? I'm like, how did I. How did I get here? Like, I just need to, you know, take a step back. But there's so many of those conversations where it was like, I was the first person to kind of open the conversation about non monogamy for someone even in the casual sense. Like, right, A first date, like, who are you? Right. And also about herpes. So. And I didn't feel very confident in either of them, like in the beginning at least. And I still don't always to this day. But so it was like I had these two ways that were constantly pushing me to be vulnerable. Even in moments where I was like, I don't really want to be, but if I want to be open about these experiences that are so part of my identity right now, then I. Then this is the invitation that it's pulling me in that direction. And I have to in that sense, like, so it's kind of a challenge. And it still is sometimes, like, I think in the sense of just time, you know, like, and, and I think like a big misconception is people are always like, oh, you know, non monogamous people, they have more sti is, you know, they. They have all these worth all these things because, yeah, they're having so much sex and like, so free. And it's like there have been many times where I'm not having a lot of sex, right? There's also only seven days in the week. Like, there's not time, you know, I think people are like, oh, you're so busy and, and you're having so much sex, you're having so much risk. And it's like, that's not the case. Right. At least not for me. So know, it's just managing the vulnerability, like in the dating world, which is hard because, yeah, a lot of people are not vulnerable and it's exhausting to. To constantly open that door of. Of that emotion with people. So I'm looking for in this new season people who match that. Right. Energy in terms of, like, wanting to open up the conversation, even in casual ways. I think, like, the more. The more I. And the more we can, like, open up deep conversations, even in casual ways, not to minimize them, but just like to open them up in these ways that don't feel so heavy, I think is super useful and has been very useful for me in tapping in with my vulnerability. So I want to, like, bring that into the next season, into spring, into my new season. Right. Is finding people who match that. And, you know, if you're monogamous, if you don't have herpes, whatever, if like, you're like, let's say, the polar opposite to me, we can still have a really great conversation and I don't have to be the one that opens that conversation. Right. And we can all explore being vulnerable and not assuming that the person who has a stigmatized identity has to open up that door. Right.
- [55:51]
Courtney Brain
I wonder if you experience disappointment at all. And we're. We're at like an hour, so I want to be mindful of the time that I set aside for us to have this interview. But the disappointment of if someone's not accepting of herpes or not accepting of non monogamy. Right. Like, do you experience that at all? Because you seem very just, like, smooth, go with the flow. Like, I have everything I want in abundance. Right. And even in how you talk about the body or the mind. Like, I've heard you say those kinds of things a few times. So, yeah, I'm very curious about how you navigate these human emotions as the being that you identify yourself as. I did not mean to clap.
- [56:37]
Tamar Weir
No, I love that. Yeah, I feel a lot of disappointment. I try to move through that because it's a hard feeling. Like, I definitely, the first few years, I mean, that was one of my main feelings. So disappointed by everyone, by friends, by. By the world, just like, what is going on? And. And I did have resources and I was still disappointed. So, I mean, I'm sure that level can be even higher for those who have. No. I mean, I was in college, right. There was resources around me, but still, even within that context, very disappointed, very rejected. Like, very disappointed in life and in people and in myself in many ways. And now I do feel disappointment a lot. And it's interesting, like, the two. As we've been speaking a lot about these two. Right. Herpes, not monogamy. Like the sexual body, which is. Let's say the herpes and then the relational body. Right. Which is the non monogamy. It's the way. Right. And, and creating relationships. Like, I think that I get more disappointed nowadays with people being very limited on and closed off about other relationship styles than I do about herpes. Right. So it's, it's funny, the transition for that, with that. And yeah, I think it's a very real feeling. Like I, I do feel very confident, but also I feel it's challenging. And you know, just the other day I was thinking about, you know, my life in a larger context and you know, maybe this is a good ending, I'm not sure, but just, you know, five years, 10 years, like what, what do I envision, you know, what's, what's beautiful out there? And I did envision, you know, a union, a marriage, let's say, with many people, you know, and where we're all connected and maybe some have herpes, maybe some have other things, whatever. We're just there, we're communicating. And then a part of me was like, I don't know if that's possible, like, because of that disappointment. Right. Like, I don't know if that is possible to find non monogamous life life partners where we're open with the body. And, and that was. Yeah, that was disappointing, you know, so I'm still working through that. Yeah.
- [58:52]
Courtney Brain
Well, thank you. I appreciate you sharing and let me be your first official podcast. I will leave you the space to share how people can connect with you and what offerings you have if people want to support your work or if they want to work with you.
- [59:09]
Tamar Weir
Yeah, thank you. So the Instagram handle is Pomegranate Pleasure, the way you would spell pomegranate and the way you would spell pleasure. No spaces. You can also find my blog linked on there. It's called Everything Juicy. So you can try looking it up on Google, but as I said, it doesn't come up very often. So you can find that either on my Instagram bio or look up my name. With Everything Juicy tomorrow we're on Google. Those are the best ways to find me. You can also email me, I guess at tomorrow8gmail.com and I think those are the best ways for now. The website is to be determined. I don't have an official website yet, but the blog is there for those who are curious.
- [59:57]
Courtney Brain
What's the eight?
- [59:59]
Tamar Weir
It's my favorite number.
- [60:00]
Courtney Brain
All right.
- [60:03]
Tamar Weir
My name I guess has already been used. And eight is. I was born on December 8th, so just my. A little birthday in there.
- [60:11]
Courtney Brain
Sagittarius.
- [60:12]
Tamar Weir
Yep. All right.
- [60:13]
Courtney Brain
I think I have a sag moon.
- [60:16]
Tamar Weir
Oh yeah.
- [60:19]
Courtney Brain
Until I have it for some reason, but. All right. Well, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for sharing your experience. I look forward to sharing this with the world and putting it out there. This concludes this episode of Something Positive for Positive people. Please Like Rate Review Share subscribe to comment on this podcast. Let me know what you thought. The Herpes stigma conference is May 22nd. This is going to be a virtual offering. Typically public health professional professionals come, mental health professionals. But yeah, if you're someone who just wants to attend, please do. It's on the website spfpp.org conferences if you work at a Planned Parenthood or some type of organization in regards to sexual health, go ahead, go in there, buy tickets. I know they get y'all money to buy tickets to these things, so let me see y'all there. I'm working on the schedule. I've been behind on on so many things over these last few months, y'all. I apologize. Newsletter is going to be out over the weekend. I gotta make it so I can have one for March podcast episodes. I'm getting back into the swing of making things consistent again. So thank you all for your patience. I appreciate everybody who's inquired on or checked in on me in regards to the grief that I'm navigating. I appreciate y'all so much and thank you for your support. I feel like I need to be doing this and need to be doing more of this. So yeah, I think that this is part of my own self care practices and getting back into the swing of things in this new way for myself. Till next time.
- [61:50]
Tamar Weir
Thank you, Courtney.