SPFPP 381: Herpes and Bipolar - Stigma on Stigma

Summary

Podcast Title: Something Positive for Positive People
Episode: SPFPP 381: Herpes and Bipolar - Stigma on Stigma
Release Date: August 14, 2025
Host: Courtney Brame
Guest: Joy

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Introduction

In episode 381 of Something Positive for Positive People, Courtney Brame welcomes Joy, a resilient individual navigating the complexities of living with both herpes and bipolar disorder. This episode delves deep into the intertwined stigmas of mental health and sexually transmitted infections (STIs), offering listeners a candid and heartfelt conversation about identity, healing, and the pursuit of wholeness.

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Joy’s Journey: From Diagnosis to Self-Acceptance

Joy begins by sharing her tumultuous journey with mental health. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder in 2014, she recounts multiple manic episodes that have significantly impacted her life.

Joy [04:43]: "In 2014, I had a manic episode where I thought that I was chosen and pregnant with Jesus. And the rapture happened, and I was committed to a hospital..."

Courtney connects on a personal level, mentioning her own grandmother's struggles with bipolar disorder, highlighting the generational aspects of mental health stigma.

Courtney [06:28]: "My grandmother, who passed away when I was 12, was also bipolar. I caught glimpses of her manic episodes..."

The Intersection of Mental Health and Sexual Health

Joy discusses her HSV-2 diagnosis and the emotional turmoil it brought, especially amidst her ongoing battles with bipolar disorder. She emphasizes the compounded stigma of dealing with multiple health challenges.

Joy [12:00]: "I thought it was the herpes until I went to the doctor yesterday and found out I had cancer stage one. But now finding out I'm at risk for these other cancers..."

Courtney explores how these diagnoses affected Joy's relationships and self-perception, addressing the fear of disclosure and the physical and emotional pain associated with herpes outbreaks.

Courtney [61:37]: "And you get these diagnoses. Do you find that it was that the conversations were different between like talking about the herpes and the HPV at all?"

Navigating Relationships Amidst Stigma

The conversation shifts to Joy's personal relationships, revealing how her bipolar disorder and STIs influenced her marriages and interactions. Joy candidly shares the challenges of infidelity linked to manic episodes and the subsequent impact on her marriages.

Joy [16:18]: "The second one, we are not on good terms. It's a lot. I cheated. I have to accept that it comes..."

Courtney emphasizes the bravery in Joy's repeated attempts at marriage despite past hardships, recognizing Joy's strength in seeking meaningful connections.

Courtney [13:26]: "But that speaks to bravery, too, because we can get our hearts broken, we can get screwed over. And to be willing to put yourself in that same position for the outcome that you're hoping for, like, that really takes a brave person."

Understanding Bipolar Disorder: Symptoms and Diagnosis

Joy provides an in-depth look at living with Bipolar I disorder, highlighting both manic and depressive episodes. She describes the relentless energy during mania and the crippling despair during depression.

Joy [19:35]: "I struggle with bipolar 1, which is mainly mania. I'm always an energetic person. But when the low hits of depression, it's pretty bad. You can't move out of bed. It's the worst."

Courtney validates Joy's experiences by relating them to her own understanding and the broader mental health discourse, incorporating definitions and symptoms to provide clarity.

Courtney [20:16]: "I did Google some of the symptoms of bipolar, and you just tell me how accurate this is. Feeling excited, very irritable or aggressive, having a lot of energy..."

Impact on Parenting and Family Dynamics

Joy discusses the profound effects of her mental health and STI diagnoses on her role as a mother. She reflects on the challenges of maintaining healthy boundaries and protecting her daughters from her past traumas and ongoing struggles.

Joy [35:50]: "I have two daughters, 17 and 10. They’ve been through a lot because of my episodes. My oldest has been very wise because of it."

Courtney explores the delicate balance Joy maintains in parenting, especially concerning open communication about sex and health.

Courtney [62:35]: "Can I ask you about the other thing that you wrote in here about like being open with your daughter about sex?"

Healing and Seeking Support

Throughout the episode, Joy emphasizes the importance of honesty, support systems, and therapy in her healing journey. She advocates for reading, self-education, and seeking professional help as vital steps toward managing her conditions.

Joy [64:18]: "I think it's just important to, you know, be honest and to try to find that support that you can trust and to have, if you are experiencing..."

Courtney echoes these sentiments, highlighting the role of community and intentional action in combating the "drift" that can lead to stagnation, as discussed in her reflections on Napoleon Hill's work.

Courtney [57:02]: "Is it that, like, a course correction. Is it that we're doing something that maybe there's a redirection or something we ain't got no business doing?"

Conclusion: Overcoming Stigmas and Embracing Wholeness

As the conversation wraps up, both Courtney and Joy reflect on the journey toward self-acceptance and the breaking down of generational stigmas. Joy shares insights into how her diagnoses have opened doors for her family to understand and support mental health better.

Joy [53:42]: "Now with this diagnosis, I just think, like, the same within the... I broke those messed up ways of thinking. Because now my family is starting to learn about mental illness."

Courtney expresses gratitude for the deep and honest dialogue, recognizing its potential to heal and educate listeners facing similar struggles.

Courtney [45:08]: "I'm glad that we were able to have this, like, mental health conversation now. Closing out or transitioning. Is there anything else that you want to touch on as it relates to bipolar mental health trauma?"

Key Takeaways

• Intersectionality of Stigma: Living with both an STI and a mental health disorder intensifies societal stigmas, affecting personal relationships and self-identity.

• Importance of Support Systems: Building a reliable support network is crucial for managing mental health challenges and navigating stigmas associated with health conditions.

• Honest Communication: Open discussions about one's health statuses, both mental and sexual, can foster trust and understanding within families and communities.

• Therapy and Self-Education: Engaging in therapy and self-educational practices, such as reading and seeking professional help, are essential steps toward healing and self-acceptance.

• Breaking Generational Stigmas: Personal journeys of acceptance can influence and educate family members, helping to dismantle long-standing stigmas around mental health and STIs.

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Something Positive for Positive People offers a profound exploration of the compounded stigmas faced by individuals living with both mental health disorders and STIs. Through Joy's brave and transparent sharing, listeners gain valuable insights into the challenges and triumphs of navigating these intertwined health issues. Courtney Brame facilitates a compassionate and enlightening conversation, reinforcing the podcast's mission to validate identities and provide tools for reconnection and healing.

For those seeking support or understanding regarding herpes stigma, mental health challenges, or the intersection of the two, this episode serves as a guiding light towards wholeness and presence.

Transcript

[Courtney Brain]

Welcome to Something Positive for Positive People. I'm Courtney Brain. Something Positive for Positive People is a 501c3 nonprofit organization supporting people navigating herpes stigma. We educate health professionals, mental health professionals, public health people, as well as educators on what it is to support somebody who's navigating herpes stigma. And part of that is also teaching people how to communicate about their sexual health status and relationship intentions and expectations and negotiating just the safety protocols and practices around their sexual health. As people might know. If you've been listening to the podcast, at least over the last couple of weeks, I'm coming out of a bout of what I have identified as, oh, I hate to use the word, being depressed. I want to identify with the label. Let's talk about the action. And what that has been was a feeling of stuckness, really. And I will be able to speak more about this now that I can actually allow myself to name it. Because I was in it. I didn't want to speak about something that I didn't what it was or put anybody through the process of me having to try and formulate what was actually happening with me. And like I said, I'll go into more detail about that, but I am through it on the other side of it. And that recovery process, I think, is really what brought it to the surface for me, because I had to do a lot of moving around just with the events that were happening during that time. And when I had to sit still, that was where the real hard work began. Because that stillness, it has a gravitational pull into stagnancy. And that's where I was. And I'm very fortunate to have had people around me who were there, who were able to remind me who I was. Very similar. In the same way that I attempt to hold the space for people living with herpes who have an identity loss as a result of their diagnosis, and encourage you all to remind yourselves who you are through the people who know you best. All right, so with that being said, this is my first podcast recording. Well, second, I had the one where I was like, hey, I'm out. I'm out of it. I'm here. And so this is the first interview I've done since being out of that. So bear with me. And I'm gonna tell you as well as my guest, like, I'm as present as can be as I have been for a long time. But this feels like a new version of me that is showing up here. Maybe not new, but just one that's kind of breaking out of What I would say has been like a calcified shell over my spirit that I am or have. However, language makes the most sense. So, yeah, this is. This is going to be an experience for both of us because it's also your first podcast. So, yes, I'll let you introduce yourself. How you want to be introduced or how you want people to perceive you, if you can give them just, like, an image of who you are. Not necessarily physical appearance, but just who's this person that we have here today talking about their experience, and then just speak to how you and I connected, and we'll go from there.

[Joy]

Okay. Well, I go by Joy. I'm in my late 30s. I have two daughters. I've had a bit of a life. I've had dealt with mental illness, mental health issues for a long time. Both of my daughters live with their dad, so it's really hard. One lives in the east coast, one was on the West Coast. So I'm always traveling back and forth trying to figure out where I spend most of my time. How I found out about Connected with you was one night I was just, you know, I've had diagnosis, diagnosis of HV, HSV2 for about a year now, but I was showing symptoms for two years. And I struggle with, you know, having this because nobody that I know at least has disclosed that they have this. So it was a really hard night, one night. And I'm married, but, you know, it's always on the rocks. I leave to one close, I come back, and I just always think, a future trip. And I'm like, well, what's going to happen if I get a divorce? And who's going to accept me with this condition? So I was just Googling, you know, support. Who can I. Who can help me? Looking for a community of people that have this, and that's how I came across you.

[Courtney Brain]

All right, thank you. When you speak about the history of mental illness, can you speak a little bit more to that?

[Joy]

Yeah. So in 2014, I had a manic episode where I thought that I was chosen and pregnant with Jesus. And the rapture happened, and I was committed to a hospital, and. And then I was out, and I did therapy, medication, management. And then in 2020, the same story happened again. And then the recent One was in 2023, but this time, I lost my whole life. I lost my house, I lost my car, I lost my kids. I lost everything. And that's when I found out I had. That's when I started showing symptoms of HSV2.

[Courtney Brain]

All right, so I was looking at your form, and I was looking like, damn, did I miss that?

[Joy]

That.

[Courtney Brain]

That's. That's big. And I want to talk a little bit more about that.

[Joy]

Yeah, sure.

[Courtney Brain]

Tell me about this. You thought you were pregnant with Jesus?

[Joy]

Yeah, I guess because I grew up in a really strong Christian background, I'm still. It's big part of my spirituality. But just one day I woke up in the middle of night and started praying and shouting. And this is like. This is back in 23rd, 14 or 13, when people really didn't know much about, you know, bipolar and things of that nature. So nobody knew what was going on with me. You know, they thought I had taken drugs, but I hadn't. And my. That was my first husband. I've been married three times. That was my first ex husband, and he didn't know what to do. So he was in the military, and he brought the chaplain over, and I thought the chaplain was the Antichrist, and I ran from him. And then they committed me to the hospital, and I stayed about three weeks. They let me go, and then the same thing happened again. So then I went back, and I was able to stabilize a month later.

[Courtney Brain]

All right, so my grandmother, who passed away when I was 12, 13, she too, was. I believe she was bipolar only. And I caught glimpses of her, like, manic episodes. She would speak about things like demons. I never really heard her talk about God, but I remember stories of my dad because he. She put him into Catholic school, and she. I don't remember enough to be able to speak to it in a way to relate. But I'm curious about the connection between the mental health breakdown and religion. Right. Like you said, you woke up and you just, like, started praying, and that was like, the beginning of the manic episode for you. Any things leading up to that? Can you pinpoint any event where this may have happened before? Like, let's talk a little bit about this bipolar thing.

[Joy]

I don't know what I. What I realized with. So I had three episodes, and the first one, I was really heavy into smoking weed. And the second time, too. But this last time, I was completely off weed, not doing any of that. But the first time, I don't know, I just, you know, I. I was reading the Bible and I thought that the. That I was eating an apple, and I thought that that was making me Eve. The forbidden fruits. And I was doing some things in my. Against my marriage that I shouldn't have been doing. So it's so weird that you say this about religion and mental Health. Because people who have seen me in these episodes say that it's like I'm really close to God, but at the same time, I'm walking with Satan. And I also feel like it's a spiritual attack, because it's weird. Like, I'll have. Like, I could. I could. I could help people, and nobody know I'm manic, but at the same time, like, I do horrible things that I would never imagine to do if I wasn't in that. In that state.

[Courtney Brain]

Let me ask you where you are now. Like, how do you feel in terms of your spirit, mental health, your identity? Like, how are you feeling in this moment?

[Joy]

In this moment? I feel pretty. I feel pretty stable. You know, I do sometimes have racing thoughts, and I'll just take a Benadryl and a Melatonin, because sleep's important. If I don't sleep, then I go. You know, I get a manic episode. As far as spirituality, I struggle with it. I struggle with guilt just because of a lot of the mistakes I made in the past.

[Courtney Brain]

All right, so you reached out to me on May 28th, and here we are now today, June. July. Wow, July 25th. And we were finally able to get this going. What was that process for you between reaching out, filling out the intake form to be a podcast guest, and now? Like, how has your life been during that time? Because I'll tell you this, you were extremely patient with me during. To me, like, I guess, like, my own mental health crisis that I was facing. Having lost my home, still processing a breakup, having lost one of my. Well, now two of my college teammates, one of which was my roommate, having moved and being displaced. Like, there was a lot that was happening for me that I can pinpoint. This combination of events just fucking broke me. And getting back together, I think probably had more of an impact on what my struggles were, because it was in my face, and I had to deal with it. There was no avoiding it. And I want to know, like, is your kindness, your patience with me, sort of like what you would say other people would say about you when you were having these experiences with your mental health?

[Joy]

I just. I try to be empathetic. I remember where everybody's been at because I've had. Like I said, I've had a life. So I remember you said that you're moving, you know, so I know what that's like, because I moved all over the country the last two years. So people. People would say that, you know, I don't know. Actually, everybody's always just worried about if I'm okay. I don't, I never hear feedback of how I am doing. I just hear, are you taking your meds? Are you okay? But since we've been, since we've been talking, you know, trying to do this podcast, I also have hpv. I forget the strands that I have, but they're the cancerous ones. So in June, I had a hysterectomy and yesterday I had my post op for my. It was eight weeks and I found out that not only do I have to get screened vaginally twice a year, I have to get screened for throat cancer. And I have to get, when I get a, when that time comes to get a colonoscopy, I have to get screened for anal cancer. So I'm dealing with that too.

[Courtney Brain]

Did they say why?

[Joy]

They said because the strand of hpv, I have those three cancers come with it.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay, now you have your herpes diagnosis. I'm curious, like between. Well, now there's like a trifecta because we've got mental health here. We've got herpes, which is an sci, and then we've got hpv, which is an STI virus, but also linked to cancer. Of these, are there any that are most concerning to you?

[Joy]

I thought it was the herpes until I went to the doctor yesterday and found out that, you know, I had this hysterectomy, it was cancer stage one, and I was like, oh, it's gone now. But now finding out I'm at risk for these other cancers. I don't know which one is the worrisome. The reason why the herpes worries me is because, you know, I, I didn't know and I still trying to figure out where I got it from. So I didn't have a choice in getting any of these actually. Right. But with the herpes, I just don't want to. I just don't. I don't know how to go about telling somebody I have it and then risking themselves to have it because it's painful, you know, it hurts when it happens, when the outbreaks happen. But with this cancer, it's just like, well, it's three areas of my body that I have to be concerned about now.

[Courtney Brain]

Yeah. And then they say, like, if it's because it spreads that way or is it because.

[Joy]

Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

Sexual contact between oral sex, anal sex, vaginal.

[Joy]

Right, right, right.

[Courtney Brain]

That was the reason. So they asked you what kind of sex do you have? And then they talked about it.

[Joy]

Right, right.

[Courtney Brain]

All right. My other question to you is, like, you've been married Three times you said.

[Joy]

Yeah, most people.

[Courtney Brain]

There's a lot of people that can't get married once you pull that.

[Joy]

No, I hate when people say that. It's like, yeah, people don't get married more than once. At least they're married to that same person. Or once the first one doesn't work out, they don't try again.

[Courtney Brain]

But that speaks to bravery, too, though, because we can get our hearts broken, we can get screwed over. And to be willing to put yourself in that same position for the outcome that you're hoping for, like, that really takes a brave person.

[Joy]

Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

And you've done it, you know, once. And I, you know, I don't know if you are comfortable with going into any of the details about these relationships at all. Like.

[Joy]

Sure.

[Courtney Brain]

What. What caused. For the divorces, I guess.

[Joy]

Yeah. Well, the first one, we were young. That was the one that lasted the longest, eight years. But what ended it was infidelity on both parts. But I could say to this, when I got. When I got. When I got married, I was 21 and he was 25.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay.

[Joy]

And when we ended, I was 8, I was 20. Around 28. But it was infidelity. And also I could say to this day that he's one of my best friends. Like, we went to counseling, and we knew that it was. Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

Oh, there we go.

[Joy]

Okay. Are you there?

[Courtney Brain]

Fine. Oh, and I'm Sorry, you were 21. He was 25, right?

[Joy]

Yes.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay. What'd you say after that?

[Joy]

I said, though it was infidelity and, you know, just. We cheated a lot on both ends, but we went to counseling, and we knew that it wasn't going to work out, so we did divorce counseling. And to this day, he's like one of my best friends. Like, we're. We're really close.

[Courtney Brain]

Oh, that's nice that y' all are able to still be close. The infidelity on both ends, like, was it a. One person cheated, the other found out and then there was retaliation? Or was it like a. I'm not feeling this. What. What's that?

[Joy]

It was more. It wasn't open. It wasn't an open marriage. It was just like, you know, he would be doing stuff on the side. I remember I had just had our. Our baby, and I found him on the website, so I put in Craigslist, was a thing, and I found him on there. And then that hurt me. So I went and I worked out. I had a really fit body. So then I use that. And we're just going back and forth and we try to work it out, but somebody was seeing somebody else or somebody was doing it. Somebody else.

[Courtney Brain]

Got it. All right, so I just joined from my phone too, so that I can, like, not lose you again. So I'm. Okay, so I am the co. So I'm the host, and I'm the co host. So if anything goes down again, then what I'll be able to do is just switch over some weird since yesterday, but. Okay. I appreciate you sharing that. Thank you. What about the second marriage? So the first eight years, and then what happened for the second.

[Joy]

The second one, we are not on good terms. It's a lot. It's a lot with him. I cheated. I have to accept that it comes. Also, I don't want to blame it on the bipolar, but bipolar people are very hypersexual people, you know? And I cheated a lot. And he found out during a manic episode. I told him everything I did, and that was enough for him, and he divorced me.

[Courtney Brain]

You able to hear me?

[Joy]

Yes.

[Courtney Brain]

All right, so there's something happening. Oh, I'm so happy that I did that when I did. So now the. My computer is disconnected because of the WI fi issues. I am plugging my mic into the phone, and we will be back on. Okay. All right. Can you hear me okay?

[Joy]

Yes, it sounds good.

[Courtney Brain]

All right, awesome. So, yeah, screw that. We have the worst Internet provider.

[Joy]

I know. So. So do I. So do I.

[Courtney Brain]

Are you. Where you at? Where you located?

[Joy]

New York.

[Courtney Brain]

Oh, do you have Optimum? Yeah, that's the one. So for whatever reason, Verizon AT&T, literally everybody else is just not here. And this. This is it. That's all we got. So I'm almost. We switched over, hopefully. Let me check and make sure that it is. It is still recording. So I have host privileges now. All right, thank you again. So thank you for your faith. So thank you for your patience. Now, what you were saying was there was cheating in that relationship as well, in that marriage.

[Joy]

Yeah, like I said, one of the symptoms of bipolar is hypersexuality. So back in my prime. This is now. Okay, so this marriage happened right after. Yeah, it is. It is true.

[Courtney Brain]

Oh, my God. Go on.

[Joy]

So this marriage happened shortly after my first divorce. And, you know, I found somebody, Prince Charming. But he was away a lot for work, and we got married, and then he went overseas, so I was left alone, and my. My urges happened, so I. I cheated. And then he didn't find out until my manic episode in 2020, and I felt like I had to Come clean and tell him everything. So I did, and that was too much for him, so he divorced me. And me and him are not on good terms at all.

[Courtney Brain]

So talk to me about what bipolar feels like. If you were to be able to explain to me, like, because my understanding is that there's manic episodes and then depressed.

[Joy]

Right, Right.

[Courtney Brain]

Highs and low lows. Right. And can you speak to me about what it feels like for you?

[Joy]

So I struggle with bipolar 1, which is mainly mania. I'm always an energetic person. It is hard to wake up in the morning just because I'm on a lot of medication and. But throughout the day, like, I'm talking fast, I'm going a million miles. When I'm having a bad day, I'll have racing thoughts. I'll. Songs, I think of music. I think of the Bible. I think of just, like, everything at one time. But when the low hits of depression, it's pretty bad. You can't move out of bed. You want to sleep all day. It's just. It's the worst. It really is. I'd rather be. I'd rather be stable, but I'd rather have energy than be depressed because it's. It's hard. You feel disabled.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay. So I did. I did Google some of the symptoms of bipolar, and you just tell me how accurate this is. But feeling excited, but feeling very irritable or aggressive, having a lot of energy, feeling restless or not needing much sleep, raising thoughts or not being able to concentrate, speaking fast or talking a lot. You may not make sense to other people. And a high sex drive. I like that. That's the last high sex drive. So all of these. Right. Like, how did you get your diagnosis.

[Joy]

From the manic episode? The first one.

[Courtney Brain]

So that was it. Okay. Did someone call someone on you? How did.

[Joy]

Yeah, I had. I had a whole care team I had for my husband, my first ex husband's friends helping me. I had. He was in the military, so I had the support team from the military, everybody just trying to get me, and just finally they got me to the hospital and I was committed.

[Courtney Brain]

Were you cooperative in that?

[Joy]

No.

[Courtney Brain]

Oh, so while you were in it, were you like, nothing's wrong with me.

[Joy]

I just thought everybody was after me and everybody was wrong. And this was. Like I said, this was back in 2013, 2014, and this is when there was still straight jackets and, you know, they would. Yeah, I was in the jacket. They put needles in my. In my butt. Like, it was. It was a lot. It was. It was very traumatizing. But I could say as far as resources during mental health, like, I remember there was groups and art and all these things that you could do. And over the years, my different stays, it seems like the resources are limited. There's not as much activities to do when you're in there.

[Courtney Brain]

Oh, man. I'm. I'm first off surprised that the conversation took this turn, but I'm appreciative of you being willing to speak to this because, you know, a lot of the conversations that I do have, herpes is a small part of it, but more of it tends to revolve around like this, like, who people are outside of their diagnosis. And I don't think that I've ever spoken to someone who has been so open and receptive to speaking about their bipolar. My grandmother, my aunt, who's my grandmother's who has a daughter, she has bipolar and schizophrenia and a lot of the, you know, I guess I don't need to say like, who she is, but there was a time where she, like when we speak to the hypersexualization or hypersexuality, right? Like, she sent me a very inappropriate selfie to my Facebook and I just, like, I understand what's happening with her. And I was like, hey, I don't think that's appropriate. And I think that I was kind of scared of her, like, flipping out or losing her shit. But she was very like, ah, you're right, you're right next to you. Sorry about that. So how can people engage with someone who is in a manic episode? From your experience, because you mentioned that it felt like everybody was against you.

[Joy]

Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

Go ahead. Sorry. I'm trying.

[Joy]

I'm just. No, I'm just thinking it's. It's very hard. Like I, I could place myself in other people's shoes and it's hard. Like the other day, like I said, I had a bad day. I had racing thoughts and my oldest was like, mom's boy manic. And I was like brushing it off, like, haha. But she knew and she wouldn't separate herself from me because, like, she's been through so much with that. She knows that she can't help. She could just separate herself from that. I think the best thing to help somebody that's going through that is just to listen. Listen on their rat, whatever thing they're tripping on, whatever conspiracy they think or just. And just, you know, sit with them. And I think the best thing to do though, is to call for help, whether it be the hospital, a counselor, like, there's no way somebody without training is going to be able to help somebody. It's a. Be. Be a miracle. It really would.

[Courtney Brain]

So what I'm hearing is presence, right? So to be with them through that, sit through the rant and everything. But then we call for help. And I wonder the, the help, like I think we've seen in the news, where people are having mental health crises and the authorities that are called turns into a lethal situation or something that it doesn't have to become. So if we're calling for support, what type of language can we use? Who can we call? What are some resources for us to be able to support somebody with bipolar?

[Joy]

Well, I think it's important first to, if you, if you know that person, if you know that person, to know who their support is, start small, community wise. Is it their mom, is it their husband, is it their best friend? Try to get them to calm them down. And then if that doesn't work, who's who, do they have a therapist? Do they have a pastor? Do they have somebody else? And if that's too much, then you know, we're going to take a ride, we're just going to get you evaluated. And if they're struggling against that, just be like, look, there's serious consequences that can come. It's not that I don't believe what you're saying, but you need some help that I can help you with because this last run in the one I told you, that just ruined my whole life. I was arrested because I was having a manic episode. And instead of calling, I know a lot of cities have crisis intervention teams where they have mental health on hands with the police department and the local authorities, but in the state that I was in, they didn't have anything like that. So they actually pushed me down to the ground, arrested me. I picked up a charge because there was no crisis intervention team, there was no counselor to be there when this happened to me. And clearly I was in a manic state.

[Courtney Brain]

So now that's advice for people who know about the bipolar, Right?

[Joy]

Right.

[Courtney Brain]

Now you mentioned that the hypersexuality, the cheating, infidelity with those partners, these were more likely shorter interactions. What can you speak to that maybe would communicate to someone that you're having casual sex with that you might be struggling with or having a manic episode or I guess like what kind of sex were you having? Was this like, hey, it was being.

[Joy]

Like one night stands. Sometimes they were relationships, but they were mainly like one time things, you know, that's all it Was.

[Courtney Brain]

So what was the process of getting there? Was it just like you go out, meet someone, you get on dating apps? How did you find these people?

[Joy]

Sometimes it was going out and other times. Well, the first. The first time. The first ex husband was. I worked at a hotel, so. Yeah, that came easy.

[Courtney Brain]

Yeah. So was it a lot of people or a lot of sex?

[Joy]

With few people, a lot, I think. I think a mixture. I think a lot with different people.

[Courtney Brain]

All right, so, boom, you're in the episode. Are you just like in it and in that you just like it and you just.

[Joy]

Yeah, and that was before the diagnosis, so I didn't really know it was happening. And it wasn't a manic episode. It was just, you know, symptoms. I. I didn't know. But here's the kicker. So they say that bipolar comes from. There's different reasons why it could happen, you know, but they also can be from unrelated trauma. And I have un. At the time, I had unrelated trauma.

[Courtney Brain]

Yes, please.

[Joy]

Oh, I also had ptsd. I was. I had abuse as a kid. So that's, you know, led to the hypersexuality and everything else. Just. Huh.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay. All right. And how has that been something that you spoken to someone about?

[Joy]

Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay.

[Joy]

Yeah. Because during the first episode, I thought everybody was that person that offended me, that abused me. I thought everybody was him, Every male was him. So, you know, that was the trauma. But since then, I've. I've. That. I put that behind me. I. Taking a lot of therapy for that.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay. Because I wanted to ask, like, what's the healing process from that? Because I think a lot of people do or are holding on to, you know, a specific person and looking at other people that maybe fit that archetype or that role as that person. And the responses shift as we become more comfortable, as we become more adults, more mature, as we get more information to where we're now responding to our real time present partner as if they're that person that harmed us when we were at whatever age we were. Because my understanding is it's kind of like we screenshot ourselves into that moment and we're living that out. But like, real time, we're here. So. So you go to make love to your person again, and they're having a flashback of being touched the way that that person touched them, and then, boom, like, that's where it's not. Okay. There's a lash out, blow up. I'm curious about, like, that and the healing process of that.

[Joy]

Fortunately, as far as that, I haven't experienced that flashbacks. But my two issues with partners is since I was a child, when it happened to me, I am always paranoid that that's going to happen to my daughter from my partner. So, you know, I'm always looking in the corner. I'm always like. It's just. I don't trust anybody with my kids. I don't. Yeah. So that's. That's brought issues, you know, a lot.

[Courtney Brain]

And therapy has been the most helpful modality.

[Joy]

Right, right. Yes. And then the other. The only other time where, like, it's not sexual, but it, you know, triggering with being. Getting pap smears and internal exams. Like, I had, like, the one I just had yesterday, I had to take a Xanax because there's no way I was going to relax. You know, just having. It's just so vulnerable and having somebody there that you don't know.

[Courtney Brain]

Yeah. I want to. I want to, like, pause real quick and check in with you. Like, how you feeling with this? We supposed to be talking about herpes? Like, we. We left.

[Joy]

I used to. I used to work in mental health, and my job was to be a peer, so I'm comfortable disclosing.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay. So the reason that I want to speak more to this is that there is. People don't recognize a herpes diagnosis as asexual trauma. And a diagnosis of any sexual, you know, STI in itself, I believe, is a traumatic experience and event, especially if we don't have the necessary resources to support us in that transition from who we thought we were into now. What this diagnosis makes us believe that we are or makes us believe who and what we've become to this point. So, yeah, I want to just express my gratitude for you being able to go here. And I'm, like, having flash. Well, not flashbacks, but, like, moments of relationships that I've been in or partners that I've been with of. Damn, this sounds similar. Not to put a diagnosis or a label on to anyone, but a lot of the traits that you're speaking to, and you mentioned not even having had a diagnosis, but in those manic episodes. So type one, right? Type one, yeah.

[Joy]

Bipolar.

[Courtney Brain]

Bipolar. And then the high energy, the high hypersexuality. That's what I. That's where I was going. So is there a way for partners of people who may be experiencing just that component, the hypersexuality component? How can someone who you picked up at the hotel maybe recognize, oh, this person's, like, having a mental health crisis, or would they have just not known.

[Joy]

Not have known Just thought that I was just, you know, into them or, you know, I hate to say about my saga, just a hoe hoeing around, you know, like they wouldn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

And I guess like the. The. Was the kind of sex you were having, was it high risk? Like, was this. Okay. Wow, that's okay. This is useful for me. And would you say that any of the kind of sex that you were having, were there any healing elements of it or was it all just made, like potentially compounding problems, trauma into your life?

[Joy]

Like there was no healing at all. It was just, you know, and that was. That's something that I used to. Not so much anymore because I haven't done those kind of things in a while, in years. But, you know, for a long time I felt so much guilt and shame, you know, just because it was just. It was ridiculous. It was getting out of control. But those things never led to my herpes. Like, it was a miracle. I got to use protection. I never got pregnant, you know, I don't know how. I guess by the grace of God, nothing bad happened to me because nothing came out of those things, you know.

[Courtney Brain]

And then the last question I want to ask you about this before transitioning into like parenting is the, the not the quality of the sex necessarily. We talked about, like, not using condoms. We talked about it being more short term. Oh. What I wanted to ask was, was it like, I'm horny, I'm turned on or what was it? Why. Why sex? Why was sex the outlet for the manic episodes?

[Joy]

I think it was two things. I think it was, you know, just like, I'm horny, I want to get off. And I think also it was validation. Like I might not be there completely in my head, but like I said, I was. I used to be really fit and toned. And I was like, well, you know, maybe I'm not all right here, but my body's good. So let me. Let me see what validation I can get from somebody else.

[Courtney Brain]

And was there anything.

[Joy]

I'm okay. Huh?

[Courtney Brain]

Was there any intimacy in these interactions?

[Joy]

Not with the. Not with the one time ones. Because I did have like actual part our fair partners with, you know, lots of sex. But no, there is no intimacy with the one nights? No.

[Courtney Brain]

So you weren't avoiding intimacy necessarily. You were just kind of. It is what it is.

[Joy]

Right? Right.

[Courtney Brain]

All right. And was the sex that you would have with your husband or relationships different? Was it more or less frequent? Because if you're hypersexual and you're in the relationship. Like, does it express his hypersexuality in the relationship?

[Joy]

Yes, it was. It was still going on frequent with the marriages.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay. So it was like, it don't matter who it is. Anybody's a. You.

[Joy]

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

All right, so let's, let's shift. Do you feel complete in sharing about that portion? Because I do want to transition away from it and I want to just like check in with you because like I said, this is heavy. It's heavy for me. Like, I'm. I don't get to have these conversations. I'm honestly, like, I'm shocked that, like, I'm able to be as present as I am for this because like I said, this is my first interview back, so.

[Joy]

Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

Yeah, I didn't expect this. I didn't expect this. So. Yeah, you're good?

[Joy]

Yeah, I'm good.

[Courtney Brain]

All right, so let's talk about parenting. How old are your children? You've got two daughters?

[Joy]

Yes, 17 and 10.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay, now I'm assuming that these are. Because you mentioned they're different size of the country. Country. So you had your 17 year old with your first or second?

[Joy]

Yes, first.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay. And other side of the country or closer?

[Joy]

Other side.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay, now talk to me about the. I guess like the pregnancy. Let's, let's speak first about the pregnancy. And then like, because you said 2016. Was it 2013 or 16?

[Joy]

You had your first 13? About 13, 14.

[Courtney Brain]

So your second daughter, you had your diagnosis, but the first 17. Let's talk about the pregnancy and what those first early years were like pre getting your diagnosis.

[Joy]

Okay. With the first one. Right?

[Courtney Brain]

Yeah.

[Joy]

So that's when I found that I had hp. Hpv. And you know, they say that when you're pregnant, that's supposed to be like the best sex of your life. You're supposed to be doing it. Well, I couldn't do it because I had warts and I couldn't have a vaginal birth because of that. So I had an emergency C section. And then I think, I think. I don't know if it was the bipolar or I had postpartum, but when she was born, I was really heavy and then caught my first ex husband talking to girls on Craigslist. And then I went to the gym every night when she was asleep. And I got so super fit. And that's when, you know, I started partying. You know, I left her at home when the baby was asleep. If he was, he would work during the week and I would tell him, okay, when do you go to work? On Monday, six. All right. It's Friday. I'll see you Monday. Like, I was just going a million miles. And that probably was bipolar that I didn't even know. But after that, you know, we moved to a different coast and, you know, I was a present mom and. And things were good. And then, you know, just these episodes have. It's put a lot on her. She's been through a lot. She knows a lot. She's very wise because of it.

[Courtney Brain]

And I guess the early years. So we talked about, like, the pregnancy, her being born. What were some of the things that I guess happened from you? I guess the early years. Like what? I don't have a better way of asking. So what ways? Did you fuck her up, like, early on?

[Joy]

Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

You. Undiagnosed bipolar episodes that you might have had.

[Joy]

I think just the risky behavior. Because during that first marriage, there was one time where we were actually separated legally, and I took her to go live with me with the man I had just met. You know, so her seeing that, you know, mom has boyfriends when Mom's married, you know, those kind of things. But luckily she doesn't remember. But I know at the time, like, it must have been confusing.

[Courtney Brain]

And then the fear that you had about, like, a man doing anything with your. To your daughter because he's a man. No. And you just met.

[Joy]

Right, Right.

[Courtney Brain]

Sexual relationships. So you don't really know them outside of that context.

[Joy]

Right, right. And then during the episodes, you know, I would. I would string her along. I know one time I. I pulled her out of a window because I thought somebody was after us. You know, I did stuff like that. And CPS was involved for these episodes. Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

And where was husband or ex husband? Were y'? All?

[Joy]

Yeah, ex husband. We were living. During the episode. We were living together, but he. When CPS got involved, they separated us and they put them in a hotel, and I had to stay by myself, which wasn't good. Going back to how you could help somebody with the diagnosis. Don't leave them alone. Do not leave them alone. Because that's when I went on an adventure. I remember I was living on the coast and I slept on the. I didn't sleep. I lied down on a riverbank during the lightning storm because I thought God was going to come into me and, like, I don't know what he was going to do, but, you know, it's. Never leave somebody alone. Like I said, like, look what happened with this arrest. I was alone and I got arrested. You know, never leave somebody alone.

[Courtney Brain]

And thank you for that. And as we got up into the later years where your daughter could, like, communicate back to you, I know you said, well, mommy's having a manic episode again.

[Joy]

Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

Before that. I'm curious about the timeline before she had language and recognized that that's what was happening. What was your relationship like with her when she could start communicating?

[Joy]

Oh, we. We've always had a good relationship. I mean, it never. It never affected her until this last episode. Oh, when the second one happened, I. I'm all. I pulled her out of the house because I thought that my second husband was a mass shooter. I don't know where that came from, but I remember pulling her out in the middle of the night and him saying. He was like, come here, come here. Your mom's not good. And she stuck with my side. She stuck by my side. So she really. She knew, but she always had my back. And it wasn't at that time 10 and then. So it didn't affect her till. Till she got older and started realizing what was happening. And if I wasn't right, she would call her dad to come pick her up.

[Courtney Brain]

Boundaries. Wow.

[Joy]

Yeah, she's very wise. Very, very wise.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay. I'm curious about your childhood, and then we can transition to your youngest daughter and your relationship. What was your childhood like? Did you. And what was your relationship with your.

[Joy]

Mom Were really close? I was an only child for a long time, and it was a 90s rollerblading, you know, she was just so much fun. She was so much fun. And then she got married when I was older, and I became a sibling to four other ones and my life. Just from four other ones? Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

Four other ones. What kids?

[Joy]

I became the oldest of four other kids. All right, all right.

[Courtney Brain]

Dad had children or mom?

[Joy]

No, my. My. My parents got divorced when I was an infant, so my dad never really wasn't. That's where I think also, like, the hypersexuality comes from, just all these factors. My dad wasn't around, you know, he was an addict, so he was going in and out of treatment, and he didn't start showing up until I had my oldest. So I never had a dad, you know, per se. And my grandparents raised me, too. That was very close. And then, you know, one of these men that she was with happened to, you know, abuse me. So that's where it comes from, you know, seeing. Thinking that somebody else is going to hurt my daughters, because that's what happened to me.

[Courtney Brain]

Does being medicated, like, what does that do to you? What does that Feel like, you know.

[Joy]

Sometimes I wish it would give me a high, but it doesn't. I guess I feel just normal. If that's how normal people feel, then I just feel normal.

[Courtney Brain]

I'm sorry.

[Joy]

You would think you get some gratification from it, but no.

[Courtney Brain]

Yeah, well, I guess, like if it keeps you out of trouble, whatever.

[Joy]

Right, right.

[Courtney Brain]

And ah, like I imagine that it's. I don't know if you have the thoughts of what your manic life was like, but do you like, do you miss it? Do you miss being undiagnosed?

[Joy]

I do. Just because of the stigma that comes with another stigma, you know, and all these people always worrying about me, tell me what to do, you know, and it's always, you know, and it's always back in my head. Well, if something happens again, they're going to use my mental health as, you know, that I need to be committed or something. Like it's just, it's. It's like walking on eggshells. It really is.

[Courtney Brain]

Has it gotten better or easier for you over time? Or do you feel like it's getting stronger within you? Like, does it feel like living in you? Are you sharing your mind? What is it?

[Joy]

I feel it's scary because they say as you get older it gets more intense. The episodes, when they do happen, that would make sense. Yeah. But I also feel like, you know, I have these people who have been like been around it for such a long time that they're good support and I feel too, it's just being honest, it really is. Like if I'm not having a good day, I'm going to tell somebody, hey, this is what's going on with me. Like I need help. So I think, you know, if it does happen again, which, you know, I hope it doesn't because also this last episode of who I was with dating at the time convinced me to get off of my medication. So I wasn't medicated. So now I know, like it's like.

[Courtney Brain]

The worst thing, right?

[Joy]

Yeah, yeah. So now I know for sure. Like I need to be medicated. I've accepted it. You know, I used to go against it. Maybe I don't have bipolar. Maybe it was just this, maybe it was just that. But this last time I realized I do have it and I need to be medicated.

[Courtney Brain]

I'm glad we're not doing video because I've been making faces at like things that you said that would really give away what some of my thoughts are about this, this. And I, I gotta tell you, this is a Conversation that I don't think I would have been equipped to have when we originally scheduled our podcast episode. So again, thank you for your patience and bearing with me to be able to be at a point where I can really receive this and be present with it. Because I'm experiencing, like, I think about my own nervous system. Like, there's some healing happening from just getting the empathy and understanding of what your experiences have been and how that translates. Because I have a cousin as well. Like, I, I, I'm not, I'm not diagnosing people. Like, I have an aunt who is clinically diagnosed and the best thing for her daughter was to get away from it. She is very intelligent. She watches anime too, so shout out to her. And she's graduated college and is on the track of being very successful. And speaking of like, stigma, as, you know, just these stereotypes, I had beliefs about my aunt, I had beliefs about my cousin's dad as well. That now as an adult and having more understanding of mental health and what people might be going through and the, the language of not only is there, you have the clinical diagnoses of these things, but you also have, like, people who maybe display these traits or behaviors that aren't diagnosed. And we can't like, look at them and go, oh, it's this, and make an excuse for it, but we can be a little bit more open minded to what right these are, and meet them with presence and meet them with curiosity and ask like, hey, you know, I noticed that you, you, you do this, like, does it feel like this? Like, now I have information to pull from to be able to go, okay, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, flaps his wings like a duck. Maybe it's not a duck. Oh, on the water like a duck. Oh, oh, that's a duck. All right, can we go and get like a duck evaluation? I think that, right, you might be a duck. Right. Covert in the sense of, hey, let's go for a ride. Yeah, we're gonna go to this place, you know? Yes. Like, not to say that there's any end all be all right. Way to do it, but just how you're talking about your daughter and how wise she is, like, it brings flashbacks there. And as you talked about some of the like, sexual trauma and experiences that you had, like, I think about past relationships where I'm like, wow, some of this does, like, make sense. And again, not delivering a diagnosis, but it's expanding my perspective to be able to close some long standing loops about what may have been going on in My relationship. And the last thing that I'll share before just passing it over is I remember being in a relationship with someone. This was long enough ago for me to have had. You know, I can say this to nobody or know who it is, but I remember one day I had a partner who I just asked because I saw a medication that I didn't recognize, and she asked something of me. We talked about it. It was handled. And then, like, she left the room not long came back, and, like, brought it to my attention again. And I was like, yo, you know what you're talking about? I was like, are you Napoleon? And I just, like, asked that question. And she made this face like a deer in the headlights. Not like, no. This just didn't like you would expect from someone who's like, what the. You know what I'm saying? I didn't get response. I got was just the deer in the headlights. That, to me, felt like a. Oh, my God. How do you find out? As if being hidden. And so that led to very confusing behaviors in the relationship. Like, she threw my outside one day. We were not. We broke up. We weren't together. And I'm thinking, like, well, what the am I doing? Like, what am I doing wrong? Because we talked about, like, we're not together and being like, the. The fidelity or the. The cheating, right? So we communicated that we weren't together. We were roommates. Now she went out of town and told me she was going out of town to see a guy. She left, and I was just, like, chilling. But then I ended up going and having, you know, saw somebody. And she. Detective work, like, put it together that something happened. And when we got back in town, we both were back. Like, I don't think she knew that I went anywhere, but it was like, well, listen to your business, really. So we end up going and hanging out. We had food. We came back, and she sat in my car. She was like, did you have somebody in your car seat on this side of your car? I was like, yeah, I didn't think anything of it. We get home. I let her out first. She goes in, and that's when she just throws my. She threw my Xbox. She broke glass. And I got to the door. I was like, hey, you know, I live here too. I don't want to have to call the cops to let me in my apartment. And so she opened the door, and she was leaving. She's like, touched me. I'm like, what are you talking about? And come to find out, like, I mean, I don't know if she has a diagnosis, but, yeah, a lot of the behaviors and the inconsistencies in the. Like, sometimes hypersexuality, this shit is. Is mind blowing.

[Joy]

It's very interesting, too.

[Courtney Brain]

Because I asked to, like my. As my dad because everyone, especially in the black community, I don't. I can't tell. Are you. Are you. What is your ethnicity?

[Joy]

Nobody can ever tell with me. I'm Mexican American.

[Courtney Brain]

All right. I was thinking Hispanic, but I didn't want to, you know, make this. Yeah, I know that in the black community, right. Like, when I was growing up, we just call people special needs or they were crazy, or the office. And so everything was just kind of labeled as, oh, grandma, just crazy. She tripped.

[Joy]

Right, Right.

[Courtney Brain]

And coming into language, I'm like, yo, these people weren't tripping. Like, I got questions. I asked my dad one time. I was like, hey, like, I know you don't seem like you have any mental health thing, but, like, did it skip a generation because your sister has the diagnosis? Am I susceptible to it? Is somebody else going to get it? We had a. Me and my dad, we had a very serious, like, and good conversation about my grandmother's mental health, and he talked about a lot of the traumatic experiences that she had. And I can't necessarily say that these. You said unrelated trauma being something that maybe. Did you call this a trigger, or am I making that up?

[Joy]

No, I don't know if I did, but it definitely is a trigger.

[Courtney Brain]

Oh, did we talk about that or not?

[Joy]

No, we didn't talk about triggers.

[Courtney Brain]

Oh, okay. So can you share the unrelated trauma trigger?

[Joy]

We said related, not unrelated or. What do you mean?

[Courtney Brain]

I thought you said unrelated trauma that contributed to your episode.

[Joy]

No, it was related from the trauma. Untreated trauma.

[Courtney Brain]

Oh, all right. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so just sharing that, like, to give you perspective in case you're like, why is he making all these faces? I'm just like, in my mind, a lot of dots are connecting. Not necessarily solidifying and closing out chapters of my life, but closing open loops of possibility. So again, I. I just. I thank you for your transparency here. Is there anything that you want to say, Speak to. Speaking to, you know, your own childhood and relationship with your family before we go into how things are or were for your second time around, giving birth and raising a child.

[Joy]

Now with this diagnosis, I just think, like, the same within the. In my culture, it's either you get over it, depression, whatever it is, or you give it to God. And I think from this, I broke Those messed up ways of thinking. Because now my family is starting to learn about mental illness. They're starting to see what they could do. They're believing in medicine. Before all this happened, my family was not like that.

[Courtney Brain]

Sorry that it had to happen through you.

[Joy]

Right. Everything happens for a reason.

[Courtney Brain]

So yeah, I always say life isn't about what happens to you, but it's about what happens through you. So if this experience has been able to heal some generational trauma and experiences, then yay.

[Joy]

Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

You know, hopefully. Well, you see it in your daughter. Like you, you've done a great job. How you describe your 17 year old and I assume that like you're doing or have been able to do a better job the second time around.

[Joy]

Yeah. So the second pregnancy was amazing. I meal prepped every day. It was a high risk pregnancy since the first one was an emergency C section. So I got to go to all these doctors appointments. The birth was nice when I had her, but this is when I had her. I was a single mom. Her dad was overseas so he was there for the birth. And then three days later he had to go back to where he lived. So I had my oldest and I had her. I lived at home with my mom for the first year and everything was fine. Everything was fine. She was my baby, you know, she's my spoiled one. And then me and her dad eventually got married. We moved to another coast and I homeschooled her, put her in, put her in different activities like it was, it was a really good childhood for her. And then the episode happened because she's. She's little. She was little when it happened.

[Courtney Brain]

2023.

[Joy]

Right, right. 20. 2020. Well, the first one at 2020, but she's. Nothing really happened dramatic with her. She was on the side of the road with my oldest when she. They were trying to call her back into the house, but she doesn't remember that. But the one in 20. No, not 2020. Yeah, 2023. She was present for and you know, she, she must have blocked it out because she doesn't remember, she doesn't talk about. Doesn't remember it. Just total trauma and I hope it doesn't come up one day, you know, and suppressed memories, you know, like. But with her, I pulled her out of. I always playing these kids out of something. I pulled her out of a car because here's the kicker. The day after I got married to my third husband, I had an episode and we were driving. We got married out of town and we're driving back to my Home. And I thought that he was driving us off into heaven, so I got scared. I didn't want to die. And I pulled my daughter out the car and started.

[Courtney Brain]

Were you able to say, hey, are you driving us to heaven? For him to be like, no, we're actually going to Texas, or.

[Joy]

And I remember because you hallucinate, too, during the episodes. So I remember. I remember looking at his phone and the gps looking all weird, and it's like, where is he taking us? Like, where are we going? So because of those episodes, because of that episode, that's how I lost my kids.

[Courtney Brain]

Okay. And this is the day after the mission. You're still married to this person, Right? All right, Now, I want to ask this question. This is a. I don't know if this is, like, a shitty question, but for you to have had an episode the day after getting married, you had an episode in 2020, and then, like, I think everybody has some type of episode.

[Joy]

Right.

[Courtney Brain]

And then 2013 as well. Like, would you say that these episodes may be, like, what is there to learn from the triggering of an episode? Is it that, like, a course correction. Is it that we're doing something that maybe there's a redirection or something we ain't got no business doing?

[Joy]

Like, exactly.

[Courtney Brain]

Make any connection there?

[Joy]

Yeah. I definitely have learned that I need to be on the street and narrow, because what happens is with bipolar stress, stress is a huge factor. So if you're doing things that you shouldn't be doing, that's going to cause you stress, right? Naturally. So as long as I do what I'm supposed to be doing and I'm not living a double life, then I'm okay.

[Courtney Brain]

I found the work of Napoleon Julian Hill, his book Outwitting the Devil, where he has an interview with the devil. And the devil speaks to this concept of drifting, where you are unconsciously engaging in behaviors that have no purpose, that have no intentionality behind them. And the quote cure is essentially, I say community, because typically community has a purpose in it and an intention. But each individual, if we were to have some sense of definiteness of purpose is the phrase that he used, then you kind of become to. You become immune to the. The drift of the devil. There's a saying, idle mind is a devil's playground, and that's what it was speaking to. And so when I think about religion and how you had, like, the religious episodes and the consequences of those things, it kind of feels like maybe there was, like, how you just said, I'm on the straight narrow when I'm doing what I know I'm supposed to be doing. I'm good. And more scientifically, less religion. Dr. Maxwell Maltz has this book called Psycho Cybernetics. And one of the things that he. An analogy that was very well put is that human beings are brains. They are gold striving mechanisms. And it's kind of like sitting on a bike, a bicycle where your feet are on the pedals, but you're not pedaling forward towards anything. And what happens is you just fall over. But as long as you're pedaling towards something, then you're being upright is being. It's. It's used in the direction that it. Or it's used. And if you don't use it, you lose it and you lose it to that drift and that stagnant. And I would say that that is probably one of the closest metaphors to what I've experienced experience in being in that depressive state or having experienced depression. And it sounds very similar to what you're describing with bipolar. I'm glad that we were able to have this, like, mental health conversation now. Closing out or transitioning. Is there anything else that you want to touch on as it relates to bipolar mental health trauma?

[Joy]

Let me see. No.

[Courtney Brain]

Let me pull up the damn. All right, so who didn't disclose and gave it to me? So can we talk about the. The herpes, I guess, for a little bit?

[Joy]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Courtney Brain]

So what's this self stigma that you talked about?

[Joy]

I just, like I said, like, I have a friend that says, and my, my mom's big on it that, like, I need a stop. How is it. How do they say it? Speak things into action or when you say something, it happens. I don't know. For the biggest. For the longest time, I had a fear of herpes. I don't. I don't know why. I just was scared of it. And, you know, a friend of ours had it and she wasn't a friend anymore, but we heard about her having. I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm surprised I haven't had it. And boom, I actually got. Let me tell you how I found out I had it. Let me show you. When I. When I first started storing symptoms, it was during my episode, my Last one in 2023, I was in the hospital and I. I was hearing voices and something told me to look at my vagina. And I did. And I saw something, but I didn't know what it was. I'm like, there's no way I'm tripping Like, I must be tripping. Like, you know, I knew it was happening, but I didn't know. And I remember I was going to the bathroom and it would hurt so bad and I would get ice chips and I would puke key with it. But nobody, none of the doctors, anybody like character asked me what I was doing. So I didn't say anything. So a year goes by, had another outbreak, and that's when I went to the doctor to go get tested for that. And that's when I found out I had cancer. So it was all two for one, but just the stigma that comes with it. I just don't want it. Like, I don't want to affect somebody on that level, that I got affected without having a choice because, you know, I don't know who gave it to me. And they never told me that they had it.

[Courtney Brain]

Wow.

[Joy]

Yeah.

[Courtney Brain]

And you get these diagnoses. Do you find that it was that the conversations were different between like talking about the herpes and the HPV at all? Like when they talk to you?

[Joy]

You know what I could say, this doctor, he was amazing with the herpes. He was like, you know, we're going to get this treated. Like, we're going to make sure that the outbreaks aren't that. Like I felt when I first had HPV with my, with my first child, that doctor wasn't empathetic. She was like, oh, you seem upset. And I'm like, well, yeah, but these doctors have been so non judgmental. And I think it might also be a different state too. You know, New York is a lot more open to these things and I came from a conservative state, so that is a difference. But like, they've been amazing. Like, my, my treatment with doctors have been so not judgmental at all.

[Courtney Brain]

So can I ask you about the other thing that you wrote in here about like being open with your daughter about sex? Like, what, what, what do you mean by being open with your daughter and talking about sex?

[Joy]

Like I said, I have a, I have a spiritual background. So I explained to her that like, you know, the Bible isn't like a book of rules. It's, it's, it's a book of rules. But there are rules for a reason. Just like I gave her rules, like, don't stay up too late. If you're gonna go out and you happen to drink, let me know so I could pick you up. Never get in a car with somebody drinking, like those kind of things, like they're to protect you. So when it comes to sex, they recommend tone. We have sex when you're married. And I tell her the reason, like, why it's probably there is that you don't have these problems like cancer that came from an STD or you have to take a pill twice a day so that you don't have an outbreak. So, you know, I have disclosed to her that I do have herpes.

[Courtney Brain]

A lot of people don't do that. And I guess, like, there's a fear of their child looking down on them. But I imagine that it's all also an opportunity to have them trust you more in what you're saying. And that's been what your experience has been.

[Joy]

Yes. Yes.

[Courtney Brain]

Good. Okay. We are way over time. I appreciate that you've been willing to, like, go as deep into this conversation. I didn't expect that. So thank you. It's been very welcome.

[Joy]

Thank you for having me.

[Courtney Brain]

I'm sure that this is going to be something that is also healing for other people as well. So I'll close this out. Is there anything that you want to leave people with or anyone who might be in a similar situation as you before I close out and talk to you?

[Joy]

I think. I think it's just important to, you know, be honest and to try to find that support that you can trust and to have, if you are experiencing, you know, maybe bipolar symptoms, whether it be one or two or any mental health crisis, to make sure you have a grounding foundation of people that you could support. And if you think you might have something like this, you know, go to the library, get some books, read about it. If you're not ready to go, you know, get evaluated like that.

[Courtney Brain]

You say, go to the library and read some books. Because I think a lot of people will just Google. And what I'm seeing is that the. The AI and Googling things is really like, the narratives are different depending on who you are and based on your search history. So, like, we just talked about sex and, like, the bipolar symptoms of hypersexuality. Right. And I wonder for someone who maybe is in a more conservative space, if sex even comes up or if it comes up, like, more aggressively to discourage it. So I. Yeah, I'm glad that you said books. Like, I think that we really need to get. Yeah, we're speaking of books. I want to mention that I am in a chapter of the the Fundamental Concepts and Critical Developments in Sex Education Intersectional and Trauma Informed Approaches book alongside some of your favorite sex educators, if you are listening to this. So you can check that out if you would like. But yeah, I just felt like that was a good opportunity for a sharing this plug. All right, now that concludes this episode of Something Positive for Positive People. Please Like Rate Review Share subscribe to the podcast. You can join us for support group. The men's group is the second Monday of every month at 7:30pm Eastern time. And this is virtual. And then the general herpes support group is also virtual. And it's the first Monday of every month at 7:30pm Eastern time. Now I will add more of these. So I think that maybe every other week is sustainable with the exception of some weeks where I have to do things on Monday evenings, but I want Monday, even evenings to be for y'.

[Joy]

All.

[Courtney Brain]

Now the first two weeks are going to be free. I have to do something where donations are encouraged so that we can continue to operate and function in a way that is going to be self sustaining. So if you need more than that three once a month social support group for yourself, I encourage you to consider becoming a member or becoming a regular donor so that you get access to through the other support groups as well. With more personalized support, it can look like just asking these questions very similar to what podcast episodes look like or just how support calls work as well, but in a community and group setting where we can share and exchange experiences, guidance, guidance and perspectives. All right. Yeah. So that's it. That concludes this episode and until next time, y' all stay present. I am going to stop the recording.