SPFPP 382: Closed Mouths Don't Get Fed with Goddess Bats

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Something Positive for Positive People
Episode 382: "Closed Mouths Don't Get Fed" featuring Goddess Bats
Host: Courtney Brame
Date: August 21, 2025

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Overview

This stigma-forward episode explores the intersections of herpes disclosure, polyamory, queerness, sex work, rejection, and navigating shame, all through an affirming and authentic conversation between host Courtney Brame and guest Goddess Bats. Highlighting both personal stories and practical advice, the episode centers the importance of honest communication, community, and reclaiming wholeness from shame. Notions of presence, self-acceptance, and the normalization of sexual health conversations in both “vanilla” and sex-positive spaces are woven throughout.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Openness: Meeting and Mutual Advocacy

• How They Met: Courtney and Bats met in a rope class at a community space in NYC, connecting over shared openness around STI awareness on social media ([01:12]).
• Public Disclosure: Bats describes becoming more open about HSV-1 following a collaborative podcast and social media reel with Safe Slut, which made their status more public than they'd planned ([02:30]).
  • Quote: “I don’t usually disclose it that publicly, which probably comes from a plethora of things — internal shame and mind your business.” – Bats ([03:00])

2. Stigma, Shame, and Educating Others

• Herpes Disclosure as Education Rather Than Activism:
  • Bats frames their public disclosures as spreading awareness, primarily to correct misconceptions in one-on-one or small-group contexts ([04:07]).
  • Example: Helping a client process HSV-1 without blame, offering information about symptoms, prevalence, and why testing isn’t routine ([05:04]-[07:32]).
  • Quote: “I think when at least when I heard that stat [HSV prevalence], it was really reassuring…Although religion or other people who are just ignorant may want to shame me … I’m not [alone].” – Bats ([07:28])

3. Diagnosis Stories and Early Experiences

• Bats’ Experience:

  • Contracted HSV-1 as a child via familial contact; mother’s open attitude minimized Bats’ shame ([08:59]-[11:14]).
  • Learned cold sores were herpes in high school sex education — reflected on how much a supportive environment shaped feelings about the diagnosis ([10:29]).

• Courtney’s Experience:

  • Felt isolated at first, only later discovering friends with herpes after disclosing ([07:48]-[08:21]).
  • Quote: “It took for me to get through the other side of shame and embarrassment…” – Courtney ([08:22])

4. Polyamory, Queerness, and Herpes Disclosure in Dating

• Bats describes ongoing learning in disclosure, especially after a misstep at a play party where they’d assumed herpes was normalized ([11:41]-[13:41]).

  • Quote: “Just because I think something is super normal … isn’t a reality for a lot of people. So that was a big learning lesson for me to remember to disclose whether or not I think someone would care.” – Bats ([12:00])

• On being rejected: Bats has never been explicitly rejected for disclosure but discusses types of general rejection (ghosting, explicit "no," etc., [14:33]).

• Navigating bisexual/queer identity in dating:

  • Initiates with both men and women, noting men are more direct in rejection, women more likely to ghost ([15:44]-[16:49]).
  • Quote: “I do make the first move to a lot of men … I didn’t realize that most femme presenting people don’t make the first move with men.” – Bats ([15:44])

5. Sex-Positive & Play Party Culture

• Comparison of sex-positive "play parties" and "vanilla" spaces:
  • Consent is foregrounded, "game" is irrelevant ([18:49]).
  • Describes throwing house parties where sex is permitted, demystifying the experience for newcomers ([21:31]-[22:28]).
  • Bats emphasizes open communication and the importance of people knowing what to expect ([24:40]).
• Disclosure at play parties:
  • In pickup play, sexual health status is typically negotiated just before intimacy; Bats usually initiates these conversations ([26:14]-[28:45]).

6. Sex Work, Testing, and Navigating Stigma

• Bats is open about doing partnered sex work, striving for transparency but noting industry norms stigmatize herpes far less than "vanilla" dating ([43:44]-[44:05]).
• Discusses industry-standard STI testing (every 14 days), including tests not commonly known in the general population (e.g., mycoplasma) ([47:10]-[48:29]).
  • Quote: “If you’re vanilla but having a lot of sex, you should also test for mycoplasma because you probably have it…” – Bats ([45:02])
• Addresses the misperception that sexually liberated people are “less careful”:
  • “A lot of people … try to shame people who are more sexually liberated, or positive, when really...they’re usually the people who are the most conscious.” – Bats ([49:50])

7. Intersections of Identity: Family, Culture, Religion, and Shame

• Raised in a Dominican, Catholic household in NYC, Bats reflects on shame from religion and family, decoupling practice from inherited ideology ([33:35]-[39:06]).

  • Open with immediate family about queerness, polyamory, and sex work; dialogue includes both acceptance and residual stigma ([39:34]-[40:11]).
  • “I feel like on the Internet, I’m pretty open about what I do. And if you go to at actually bats, it’ll be pretty clear.” – Bats ([39:48])

• Family support is qualified: supportive of safety/stability but not public about Bats’ work or identity ([50:41]-[51:01]).

• Bullying and boundaries:

  • Much of Bats’ shame came from “playful” teasing at home; distinguishes teasing from disrespect based on repeated boundary crossing ([51:23]-[52:37]).

8. Grounding, Presence, and Growth

• Bats credits therapy and self-reflection for their calmness and grounded approach to life, jealousy, and rejection ([54:16]-[62:15]).

  • Uses tools like reality-testing anxious thoughts, re-centering after rejection, and maintaining supportive friend circles ([54:16]-[64:06]).
  • Quote: “Your anxieties are just thoughts and aren’t your reality.” – Bats ([69:30])

• Navigates jealousy in an open/polyam relationship using open communication and reframing ([64:06]-[67:03]).

9. Initiative, Agency, and “Closed Mouths Don’t Get Fed”

• Bats explains their proactive approach to dating and self-advocacy ([56:33]-[57:11]).
  • Quote: “Closed mouths don’t get fed.” – Bats ([56:39])
  • Initiating as a femme-presenting person is empowering and typically well received, especially by men ([57:04]).
  • Contrasts with cultural fear among men of public rejection and being “aired out” on social media ([58:33]-[61:21]).
• Emphasizes the importance of taking risks and dispelling myths that others won’t be interested because of status or other identities ([61:21]).

10. Final Reflections and Message

• Bats’ closing thoughts: all humans deal with anxiety, but it isn’t reality; passionate about humanizing sex workers ([69:30]-[70:14]).
• Invitation for listeners to connect via Instagram @actuallybats ([70:17]).

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Notable Quotes

• On STIs and Disclosure:
  “Just because I think something is super normal ... isn’t a reality for a lot of people. So that was a big learning lesson for me…” – Bats ([12:00])

• On Sex Work and Stigma:
  “A lot of people … try to shame people who are more sexually liberated, or positive, when really...they’re usually the people who are the most conscious.” – Bats ([49:50])

• On Rejection and Growth:
  “It’s not that personal … Just because this one person…has rejected me doesn’t diminish anything about me.” – Bats ([30:33])

• On Initiative:
  “Closed mouths don’t get fed.” – Bats ([56:39])

• On Anxiety and Self-Acceptance:
  “Your anxieties are just thoughts and aren’t your reality.” – Bats ([69:30])

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Important Timestamps

• 00:36 — Goddess Bats introduces themself: artist, entrepreneur, polyamorous, queer, based in NYC
• 02:12 — Bats discusses growing openness about HSV-1 status after creating content with Safe Slut
• 05:04 — Example of compassionate correction and education post-diagnosis
• 11:41 — Bats on navigating herpes disclosure in polyamory and play party cultures
• 15:44 — On initiating with men and women in dating
• 19:36 — Play party consent culture versus "vanilla" dating
• 26:14 — Sexual health negotiations before play at parties
• 39:34 — Openness with immediate family about polyamory, sex work, and queerness
• 47:10 — Frequency and expectations of STI testing in porn industry; introducing mycoplasma testing
• 54:16 — Tools for staying grounded: anxiety management, therapy outcomes
• 56:39 — The episode title’s message: “Closed mouths don’t get fed.”
• 69:30 — Final reflections: on anxiety, sex work, and self-acceptance

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Additional Notes

• Bats runs @actuallybats on Instagram and previously co-hosted "Consensual Carnage" podcast.
• Courtney provides support and resources for people with herpes through SPFPP.org.

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This summary captures the open, compassionate, lightly humorous, and deeply stigma-busting tone of this episode, offering practical takeaways for anyone navigating sex, disclosure, and self-acceptance in any context.

Transcript

[A]

We own video. Welcome to Something positive for positive people. I'm Courtney Brain and this is Goddess Fast. And today we're doing a podcast episode. I don't interview people in person or on video, so this is, like, really exciting for me to be able to do. So I'm not gonna do our basic intro. Like, I normally just start really letting people introduce themselves, how they want to be introduced, and then just kind of mention how we met, how we connected, and then go into the conversation.

[B]

Totally. So I'm Goddess Bats. My preferred pronouns are they, she, and. I am a multi dimensional artist entrepreneur trying to continue to live in New York happily and financially stable, putting that into the universe. I'm actually trying to think about how or when we first met, and I can't remember what came first. Do you remember?

[A]

I thought it was here.

[B]

It was here for the rope.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay. That's also then serendipitous that in full circle, that we're back in the spot where we first met.

[A]

Yeah. Because there was a road class here. I think it was in May or June of 2023. And that was the last time I got here. I was like, this looks familiar. I was like, oh, I was here before. And so that was when we met in person. I think I followed you on Instagram. I don't know if you posted a thing about herpes. Usually. Yeah, if I see somebody post something regarding herpes, I'll just follow him and share what it was.

[B]

Yeah, I think I did. So for context, I have a podcast, and on my podcast, we interviewed Safe Slut. And we basically, after the podcast, did some content. So we made a reel where then I had put something like, when you meet two HSV positive hotties, insert something there. So that might have been the reel you found.

[A]

Sounds like it. All right, so not a lot of people are open about or like, transparent about having herpes. And so you were able to make a reel with someone who's obviously been active and open about having herpes for a while. What was that process like for you?

[B]

It's funny because when we first reached out to work with her, I didn't think about how the similarity that we had would become something I could monetize or use as leverage in just expanding my audience. So. Which is interesting because she's known for having HSV1, but it was more so in the context of making reels for social media and using those kinds of clips where we're more focused our comm. Where we focused our conversation More so around HSV1. Which is then when I think more people on the Internet found out that I had HSV1 since I don't usually disclose it that publicly, which probably comes from a plethora of things of internal shame and mind your business.

[A]

What reason would you have to disclose it publicly though?

[B]

Yeah, I feel like the only reason to disclose of it publicly is almost kind of in this collab sense where I'm talking with someone whose niche is more so that. Yeah, because for me it's almost more of a like the more, you know, instead of needing to let people know about it.

[A]

Yeah. So it was more just like a spreading awareness thing. It wasn't really like an activism or.

[B]

Yeah, I feel like there's so many people who are great activists, you included, for HSB1 and I'm just someone who has it and occasionally corrects people when they misspeaking about it, but definitely don't feel like a spokesperson.

[A]

Yeah, what's your corrections look like? And I'm gonna give like more context to that question. I think a lot of people want to get involved or they see people who are open about their herpes status and how fun they make the content look and the creation of that and everything but feel like they're not brave enough. And so I often offer for people to just advocate in their own ways and it sounds like you do so maybe in a one on one sense, but even in correcting people. So can you share an example or two if you have more than one of what correcting someone looks like for you?

[B]

Yes, I'm trying to think about which example is better, but I might just mention two of the many. Most recently I had a client that I worked with and they reached out to me with I guess concern about where they had contracted HSV1 and they kind of were blaming me and another mutual friend who they knew that I knew of. And I get it. When you first get a diagnosis, you want to go back to the moment of like when did I get this on Wells? Who can I blame? But I wasn't going to let that happen. So I kindly told the client that one, there's a chance that they could have had HSV one prior and didn't have a visible outbreak that they either noticed or that, you know, they went to a doctor for and then got tested for and found out about it. So it's something that they might have had prior to even knowing me or my friend. And then I had told them that I had given them some education about why a lot of doctors don't test for HSV1 or 2, you usually have to ask for it. And they were grateful for the grace that I basically had for them and the corrections that I gave them. Yeah, they mentioned it helped them process a little bit better, too. Which I was like, that's all. I really want you to be able to process a little better and just, like, move forward in the world, like, communicating about it a little better. Because I could tell from their email that they had a lot of shame. And it was a very, oh, my God, my life is over moment. But it doesn't have to be over. I. And I think also letting. So then this goes into my second most. Having to correct people or misconception is letting people know that I think it's over 80% or around 80% of people generally just in the whole world have either HSV1 or 2 or both. And I think when. At least when I heard that stat, it was really reassuring that I wasn't alone. And although religion or other people who are just ignorant may want to shame me or make me feel like I'm alone, I'm not.

[A]

That's interesting, because when I got my diagnosis and they show all those statistics, it made me feel like more alone. So I saw the same statistics, but it's like, that's great that 80% of the population has herpes. I don't know any of these people.

[B]

That's fair.

[A]

And it took for me to. When I did eventually start telling my friends, like, they'd be like, oh, you know, so and so has it. I was like, what? And it'd be somebody that we've interacted or somebody that maybe I flirted with. But I was like, I want to have to tell her I have herpes. Where the same friend group. And I don't want this to be a thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then years later find out, oh, that person had it too, or that person had it. And so it took for me to get through the other side of, I guess, the shame and embarrassment of having it. Because when I was diagnosed, I remember not wanting to be known as that person that was going around here giving people herpes. So when I reached out to people, I was like, hey, do you have herpes? It was like, my most recent sexual partners.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And everyone said no. And I was just like, all right, now what? So what was your experience like when you got diagnosed with HSV1 or was it something that you just always had?

[B]

So I feel like it was probably something I always had. My mom had confirmed with me, and, like, my Sibling that she was positive for herpes, and she would often get cold sores, like, monthly. And I don't think she was taking treatment for it, probably out of her own, like, ignorance that she could be treated for it. So I remember hearing that as a child and then not experiencing my first cold sore until maybe middle school or high school, and my mom noticing it right away and her kind of calming the situation down and just being like, oh, it's just a cold sore. People get that all the time. Like, don't think anything of it. And then I think later in my high school journey, finding out through just, like, health classes that cold sores were herpes.

[A]

They taught y' all that we didn't get. I don't remember getting that.

[B]

Okay. I have to. I have to say this was, I think maybe my junior or senior year in high school. So I also don't know if they have, like, different professors for different age groups, because I will say I wasn't finding that out either prior to, like, that one class where we had. And, yeah, very fortunate that the educator we had was actually good. And I was like, this is the best sex that I've ever gotten. But it wasn't until.

[A]

Where was this at? Was this here?

[B]

Brooklyn? Yeah, I. Yeah, I went to some high school in South Brooklyn. Nothing special about it, but it was once I made that connection to the herpes and the cold sore that I had mixed feelings thinking about it. I think I was in denial also for a little bit. I was also in a relationship with someone that it was very long term. So I don't even think I told them necessarily that I had herpes, but they also knew I had cold sores, but they never made me feel different for it. So I feel like that all played into my experience of kind of being calm about it overall. Yeah.

[A]

Okay. I am very curious to know, like, now in dating, disclosing, like, how does that work for you? Because to my understanding, you're a polyamorous.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay, so how does that go over with partners? Do you only date people with herpes? Do people have any concerns? Like, how do you navigate that?

[B]

A disclosure is. I'm still learning.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I say that because prior to actually posting the reel, that you probably had found someone who I had casually played with at a play party in the scene had found the video, and I guess at the party, I didn't disclose, and they were really hurt by that. And I had to, like, own up to my own mistake for not disclosing. And, you know, in Reflection. Just because I think something is super normal and that everyone has, like, that's my assumption and it not a reality for a lot of people. So that was a big learning lesson for me to remember to disclose. Whether or not I think someone would care to know or not. Doesn't matter where we meet. If it's at a party like that or through a friend of a friend, if I'm going to be intimate with them, it's something that I should always disclose regardless. So that was a learning lesson. But prior to that, for the most part, I felt like I was disclosing to people. And I think what also made me then not tell that person specifically was having experiences with other people where they would be like, oh, everyone has herpes. Like, why are you telling me that? And kind of getting the notion from people that like, I was wasting my time by disclosing. But now I know I rather play safe than sorry and disclose to anyone regardless if they think that I'm silly for disclosing or not. And yeah, that's kind of been my overall experience. It's either I get, oh, thank you for telling me, or yeah, doesn't everybody have it? But I've never been. Or I never have been rejected. I would say you never been rejected for having. I've been rejected, but no one's rejecting.

[A]

You for having heard.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Exactly. At least that I know of. Maybe they did and they didn't mention the herpes. But as far as I know, any rejection that I received was not related to my status.

[A]

Okay. And as we talk, I guess while we're on the topic of rejection, then it's not like for herpes. I think a lot of people who have it thinking think that that's why a person may not want to be with, play with, have sex with, or even be around them in some cases. So I like to give some examples of like alternative rejections. Even like something as simple as asking someone at dinner, hey, can you pass us all? If they say no? Right. That's a rejection.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are there things that you can speak to from the dating experience and maybe are other reasons that you've been rejected?

[B]

Yes. Let me recall the few times a few.

[A]

Damn Put you on the spot. It's all right. You gotta try to like humanize yourself, everybody.

[B]

No, no, no, no. I've definitely. I've definitely have been. I also feel like the kind of rejection I'm more recently have experienced has been ghosting, which I think is interesting. And what that can look like is maybe me Asking someone out to dinner and them saying, oh, yeah, that sounds like a great idea. And then me sort of, you know, furthering the plans to like solidify dinner and then I get ghosted. I think that would be a form of rejection. And I think I get that more so than a flat out no, to be honest.

[A]

Are we talking friends or dates?

[B]

Both.

[A]

Okay. And I guess I'm curious, what is your. How do you sexually identify? Because when you said like, I'll ask someone out, I'm like, damn, dudes ghosting. Or you're asking dudes out. And that's like.

[B]

To clarify, I would say I'm queer. And for people who are like, what does that mean? I'm basically bisexual. And I do make the first move to a lot of men actually who I'm interested in, which I hear is rare, but I kind of have been doing that my whole life. So I didn't realize that most femme presenting people don't make the first move with men. So I've been rejected by both.

[A]

All right, is it different? Does it feel different? Rejecting or being rejected by women versus men rejected by men?

[B]

I will say in my experience, being rejected by men, they're more likely to be straightforward and give me the no or even tell me or maybe make up an excuse for what the no is. Versus in my experience with women, that's usually who I get ghosted by more. But in some rare cases, I probably also have been just told no. Yeah, I'm remembering a specific.

[A]

Okay, what you got? What you got?

[B]

I have a friend who's a Taurus. I don't know if she'll ever watch this or not, but we went out to celebrate her birthday with a couple of friends.

[A]

This is getting very specific. You sure you want to finish the story?

[B]

And basically I just asked if she would like a good night, like, happy birthday kiss. And she respectfully was just like, no. And I was like, okay, cool. I'm going to go then.

[A]

What do you do with that? Like, I. Okay, first off, have you rejected people?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which one feels harder, you being rejected or rejecting? Rejecting people, that is so much harder.

[B]

It's so hard, like receiving a rejection. I'm like, cool. Like, that was so cool that you could reject me like that. And that's literally as I was leaving after that situation, going home, I'm like, that's so cool. I'm glad she was able to say no and like, you know, put up that boundary in our relationship now because prior I was. I had some hints from one of her Partners that she could be interested in receiving something like that. But it's totally harder to reject somebody. And even if I know that they're going to receive it fine, it's still hard to do. And I can admit that I find myself having to stop myself from wanting to make an excuse to. For, like, rejection. Yeah. Which I think is my own trauma of having people question my nose. So wanting to give them that excuse before they can bother me for it.

[A]

Yeah. I find that in my experience as a straight man, oftentimes between that and dating and relationships is very similar to sales in no means try harder, find out why. No. And then like, okay, well, is it because I'm not tall enough? Let me go get this knee surgery real quick. Now what? Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

In this sex positivity space. Like, can we talk about the party you had?

[B]

Yeah, totally.

[A]

So it's really cool that in these spaces and it's so different because I was talking about this two people. Even at the party where, like, in the vanilla world, you go to a bar or something, like, you gotta have game. You gotta, like, be smooth. You gotta come correct.

[B]

Yeah. You gotta dress.

[A]

Shoes don't look, like, good if your outfit don't match.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's instant. No.

[B]

If they catch you, don't leave a tip.

[A]

Yeah. And in these spaces, it's so much more like consent for. And it's almost like, not cool. And I use air quotes when I say cool because you ain't showing up with, like, the lines or game like it is. Hey, do you want to have a conversation?

[B]

Like, right. Because you can show up with any game that you have, but if you're not having consent at the forefront, people will clock it or reject you for the lack of consideration to consent, Whether that's asking for a hug or even, like, thoughtfully or thoughtlessly touching someone's arm or around their waist or something where, you know, in this very vulnerable environment, people can be half naked if not naked.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So having consent at the forefront is super important.

[A]

Yeah, for sure. That made me think about, like, how, I don't know if you've had the experience of being in sex positive spaces and then being in vanilla spaces and recognizing, oh, I'm not. This isn't normal.

[B]

I'm not home.

[A]

Do you engage with the vanilla world?

[B]

Like, I mean, I have to, but I try not to, but I have to. And I have so many vanilla friends. And it's funny because I'll try to invite them to the parties that I throw, and it's always a mixed Bag. For the most part, a lot of them have never came. And the ones that have either came once and I can tell that was their like super cool story and experience that now they get to like throw out a never have I ever versus maybe like 1% of that group where they come back and they're like actually interested and thank me for thinking of them and like showing them that world. So I still have to deal with vanilla world things, but for the most part, I try to keep any gatherings that I go to. Like if it's a workshop or an event or a speed dating. I do try to like niche ify it to either polyamorous or queer communities.

[A]

Damn. What was I about to ask you? I tried to just let you talk and be present there.

[B]

But I appreciate.

[A]

Oh, the parties, the parties that you throw. Can you describe them? I know you mentioned queer.

[B]

I like to tell people that their house parties where people just have sex. I think that demystifies it.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait. Can you say that again? Their house parties where people just have.

[B]

Sex or they have the option.

[A]

Okay, all right, all right. Because I heard that the other way.

[B]

I was like, I don't think that's it. All right, all right. To have sex, people are having sex. You don't have to be having sex, but you have to be semi comfortable knowing that as you're talking about whatever you're talking about, someone in the background is going to be moaning. Because that doesn't happen at regular house parties. But that's kind of what I like to tell people to sort of bring them down from their image of probably Eyes Wide Shut or something, where they're probably thinking it's going to be way more intense than it actually is.

[A]

I remember I walked into a sex party. I didn't know it was a sex party.

[B]

Oh.

[A]

And not knowing this, I was just like shocked and uncomfortable.

[B]

Right. That sounds normal.

[A]

Like, yo, I'm cool. Like, if I knew that this was what I was walking into. All right, awesome. But I was just like, it was.

[B]

Did someone just invite you without.

[A]

I don't think he knew. I don't think any of us knew that this was a sex party. It was like a party. And then there was like upstairs, there's stuff going on. And I think everybody was supposed to know what stuff going on meant, Right? And people were like coming downstairs and like again and again there was just like do after do after do do. And I was standing there, I was standing, like hovering around the people I was with. Cuz I was like, something I don't know what's happening here. Like, there was a smorgasbord of just snacks. It looked like they threw a barbecue. And it was just. They brought everything inside. And I was like, oh, cool. They got snacks here. And there was a dance floor that nobody was on except, like, the DJ and maybe two people. And so I'm just, like, scoping the house and then, like, you just see these dudes. Just consistent.

[B]

And it was a two floor house with, like, a backyard.

[A]

Yeah, big backyard. Huge backyard. This is in Portland, Oregon, too.

[B]

Oh, in Portland, Oregon. You got me now.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I was thinking of places in Brooklyn. I was like, this is that place. Portland, Oregon.

[A]

And so I'm standing there, I was like, I wonder what's going on over there? But I. I was hovering around my people. So this guy comes and he, like, looks real accomplished. He was like, yeah, I did that. And he comes up and he puts his hand, like, on the person next to me. And I smell ass and condom. I know that smell, like, very well. And I was like, oh, this is a. This is some kind of a sex party. And I was like, all right. I was like, I don't know that I really have anything to contribute here. And I was like, let me go outside. So I went outside and I ended up talking to some woman there about Dragon Ball Z. And she. She misnamed the character. And I was like, you making me look bad. Because it was other people that were, like, in the conversation too. But that was. It's important to note that these parties, when people come, they know what to expect and you know what they are.

[B]

Yeah. And definitely anyone who's attending knows that they're coming to this event because I work with. I work with the company that they're known for doing that. So anybody who is subscribed subscribed to their newsletter and finding out about the party knows that there will be sex at the party. And if I'm doing promotion for the party, let's say on my Instagram, we.

[A]

Use words like, what's your Instagram?

[B]

Instagram is at. Actually bats at this current moment. I don't know if I'm ever gonna change that or not, but I've said it so much, I'm like, if I change it, then how are they gonna find me? So actually bats. But yeah, I'll usually say that it's a play party. And most people who know know that play party means sex party without being too explicit. And usually if people don't know what that means, the good Ones ask and then they find out.

[A]

Okay, now how does that work? Because I get questions sometimes from people who are like, I can't play at parties anymore. How do I disclose this? Because I think there's an assumption too, that because you have herpes that people aren't going to want to play with you. Or like, it's not sexy to disclose, which is kind of like that vanilla world mindset of killing the mood by talking about sexual health. So how does this come up in a play party setting?

[B]

In my experience, if I am, I guess, doing pickup play is what we call it, and I'm at the point where it's clear that me and this person want to get intimate. But before we get down and dirty, we're negotiating.

[A]

I love these, like, random phrases and not just saying what it is. That's incredible.

[B]

Well, I think about just the world that we live in and the censorship that exists. And I'm already saying sex so much that I'm like, how do I censor myself and change it up a little bit?

[A]

I. Yeah, I just don't. I don't even try anymore. I would say if I have to say sex, I'll say that three letter S word that ends with an X and has an E in the middle. And that is so exhausting to type up every time I want to use the word. Incredibly, I don't even care. The podcast, like, podcasts haven't been censored yet, as far as I know. Yeah, but just even on social media, like, I just direct people to the podcast and even that gets censored because I'm taking away Instagram engagement.

[B]

Yeah, it's all. It's all pretty exhausting. What was the question that you had asked me, though?

[A]

We were talking about. You were talking about pick up play and when to show your status.

[B]

Okay, so you're negotiating with somebody usually before we get into playing. I will. It'll be like one of the last things I say. Mostly because I am also uncomfortable in having to disclose still because of the stigma that exists. But usually I'll mention it at the end and just especially if no one has. If they didn't disclose something first or I also find that usually I'm the one who's asking about disclosing things or like, test results, which I find interesting. But usually at that point, then I'll mention, you know, I recently got tested or it's been two weeks since I last tested and I have a history of HSV1 and I haven't had an outbreak since X Time. And usually either. That's when people either ask more questions, either reject me or say, you know, cool, thanks for letting me know. Ready to continue.

[A]

So you remember that you've been rejected, but we. What story do we have? Do we have a story there?

[B]

Well, I feel like the rejection, maybe then after disclosing, looks more like, oh, thanks for letting me know. Actually, I have to go to the bathroom. Or. Let me think about this. Now I'm trying to think, has that actually happened to me or has someone told me that that's happened to them?

[A]

I don't know, because that's a common story. Like, you're at a party. And I often have to share my status a lot sooner than I'm ready to.

[B]

Right.

[A]

One of the first questions in the vanilla world that people ask, what do you do?

[B]

Right. This is it.

[A]

I run this nonprofit for people with herpes, and I've had a few, like, really shocked looks, and people like, oh, my God, I have herpes. Oh, like, cool. More often than not, I've gotten. Me too, than anyone just flat out being, like, uncomfortable or, no, thanks. Or rejecting me.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I remember once I was at, like, a house party, and I was having, like, a lot of conversation with someone, and then at some point, what do you do? Came up. And then we started talking about herpes and whole energy change. And then, like, she had to go to the bathroom.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Throw in. Yeah. And then that was it. But I would say that, you know, unfortunately, that's one of the more memorable experiences. Like, I've not been rejected a lot more often than I have been rejected. And I think a lot of people just don't put themselves in the position to. To even experience the rejection and get what it is that they want. So I'm curious, like, what's your process for after you do experience rejection? Like, how do you keep at it? And you. Somebody that you hit on men and women, right?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I guess for me, it's just remembering that, like, it's not that personal and being grounded in knowing that even if I have herpes, that doesn't make me any less interesting or desirable. And just because this one person, or however many people it is, has rejected me doesn't diminish anything about me. And just kind of staying grounded in that as, like, a mantra almost.

[A]

Yeah. And also, though you're in a space, too, where I think it's also much more normalized to even have these conversations. And you being the femme. Femme presenting person. All right, so mostly femme presenting. You're initiating these conversations, how often are the conversations initiated with you, if at all about sexual health?

[B]

When you say about sexual. Hell, yeah, never or almost never. I feel like, I think in my experience. Experience. So I've been in this more open, kinky place space for three or four years and in that time frame I've had less than five people initiate. What's your status combo and were these.

[A]

People who had something to disclose or.

[B]

Ah, they all had something to disclose and it. For the most part it was HSV 1 or 2.

[A]

Okay. And one thing that I'm curious about. Well, I guess like HPV isn't one that comes up often at all, but it is on us as people who have herpes. Like, unfortunately, we are leading the conversations about sexual health and it's normalized in this space. But is it really or are there a lot of assumptions that are made here in sex positive spaces the same way that you would make them in more vanilla spaces or like at swinger parties? Like I hear people who, if they get herpes are like, I can't go to events anymore because no one is going to want to play with me. I'm like, well, do y' all ever talk about sexual health? Like, no, why would we like.

[B]

And that's why I think there's almost. It's a spectrum. They're going to be people on one side of the spectrum that stays stay ignorant and will have that more visceral reaction versus the center of the spectrum where you might not get a visceral reaction, but there will be a shift in energy and then way, way, way on the other side of the spectrum are people who just get it and are the ones who will mention it before you and probably also have it. Yeah.

[A]

I wanted to talk about the. I'm thinking about the intake form you sent me. You mentioned shame, being bullied and religion, whichever of those you want to start with. Like, we can go from there.

[B]

Well, I feel like religion and shame almost go hand in hand, at least in my brain. I grew up in a Catholic household who had.

[A]

I feel like I talked to a lot of people who grew up Catholic.

[B]

Yeah. I don't know what, what's up with that.

[A]

But like, is there anything else that doesn't people up? I guess?

[B]

Yeah, I have no idea. Like, I remember my mom tried to even put me in Sunday school and was trying to have me do my communion and I just gave her a lot of resistance.

[A]

Like even as single digit age.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. When did it? Yeah, I feel like I probably was 9, single digit, 8 age when we started Sunday school and, you know, shout out to the struggles of being a single parent in New York, where it. It became so where my mom couldn't have people pick us up or bring us to Sunday school. And it just became more of a hassle to do rather than a convenience. So that's how I got out of that. Same with my communion. Just a convenience thing got me out of it, to be honest. And then from there, I feel like my rebellion just continued against the church. And anytime anyone in my family wanted to do anything going to church, there's one aunt in particular who would usually do Christmas Eve. Most, like Spanish households will celebrate Christmas Eve instead of Christmas Day. And often we'll go and do a mass at midnight or something. So we kind of grew up doing that. And as I just got older, I just kept being like, I don't want to do it. No, can we just go home? I want to go to sleep. I don't want to do it. And having. I mean, I was lucky that my mom was just also tired and often gave in to me not wanting to be at church. And then also personally with my mom specifically, we were never really encouraged to practice. I feel like, especially once she was given so much resistance, she was kind of like, all right, I tried, if you don't want to do it, you won't do it, but it is what it is kind of thing. And then also, I think with the times, society eventually also stops centralizing religion too. Because I feel in my family at least, I think there's maybe only one of the four aunts who still does mass every Christmas Eve. I think everyone else, for the most part, has decentered the Catholicism of religion and just holidays that go along with that. But there's still shame. And I think whether it's the church or the influence the church has on people who attend, shame was definitely something that was more felt, whether it was like just verbal things that people would say. Yeah, I don't want to get like too into you.

[A]

Yeah, what's your. What's your culture, household or like, ethnicity?

[B]

So both of my parents are Dominican. My dad still lives on the island and was born on the island. My mom was born here, so she still lives here. And growing up, we were taught Spanish but didn't practice very often. I'm someone who can like, listen and read more than I can speak, speak, but I can also still get around. And yeah, I feel like older generations were very forceful on, like my parents to go to church. And keep that up. But I feel like at least in America, my mom struggled to kind of keep that discipline with me and my sister, at least. But although the discipline for going to church wasn't there, the ideologies were still. Hence receiving a lot of shame from my family. From whether it's me being bisexual or me being open or polyamorous. Yeah. Just having, like, a more sex positive lifestyle and like, knowing that I wanted that at a young age. That being in high school. Yeah, it. It came with, like, a lot of shame. Yeah.

[A]

All right, you good? Because that seemed like an abrupt stop. Like, you started thinking and you were.

[B]

Like, yeah, yeah, I guess when I started thinking about it, I want to mention some things and then I don't want to mention them.

[A]

Listen, I done said a lot of.

[B]

On these podcasts, like, exactly.

[A]

I think that those things often times are what people connect with. But also, if you. If you good there, we can transition.

[B]

No, I mean, I'm fine to say that, like, because that's a lot.

[A]

That's a lot stacked, like intersectionality. Right. Bisexuality, open or being polyamorous. And hold on, your family knows these things?

[B]

My mom, specifically, because definitely. Yeah. When I think of my immediate family, I think of my mom and sister. And then when I think of the rest of the family, that's, you know, aunts, grandma, grandpa, my dad, since he's super far. But just between my mom and my sister, they know that I'm open, that I'm queer, that I prefer poly. They know that I do sex work, for example.

[A]

You never mentioned that one. And I was just going to stay away from it.

[B]

All right. Yeah. I realized in my intro that I didn't mention it.

[A]

When you said multi dimensional create, I was like, all right, I ain't heard that one before. All right, cool, Cool.

[B]

Yeah. But that also comes from shame in, like, disclosing or doxing yourself. But also I feel like on the Internet, I'm pretty open about what I do. And if you go to at actually bats, it'll be pretty clear.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

That. Yeah. That I'm in the world more than just throwing lifestyle parties.

[A]

Cool. So we can go into that, like, sector now as well.

[B]

Yeah, we can transition.

[A]

But I do want to know, like, what was. Did these things feel like coming out of the closet for you or opening up?

[B]

Like, they definitely felt like coming out of the closet. But it's so funny because when I did tell my mom and sister, for example, about sex work, neither of them were surprised.

[A]

Oh, yeah. I thought you Say they were like, I know, we knew already.

[B]

No, they didn't know for sure, but they, they had a feeling. Especially since I was transitioning from having like a corporate job and talking a lot about work and then going to. No, I'm just doing freelance and never going into details about work. Yeah.

[A]

What was corporate? What was corporate?

[B]

I literally worked as an assistant editor for commercials, tv, movies.

[A]

You worked in advertising?

[B]

I did. I hated advertising, but I did some of that. I did, you know, Netflix, hbo, pbs. Like I worked everywhere.

[A]

No shit?

[B]

Yeah, for a couple years.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I literally stopped doing all of that because. Well, a couple of things.

[A]

One pandemic.

[B]

Well, I was actually still doing it in the pandemic. And it almost became easier for me to do in the pandemic because I was working from home now I was getting paid a lot. I wasn't being really hovered over for the work that I was doing. So I had a lot more freedom to then start the only fans to then start making content at home and being able to like be at work. And suppose I was supposed to be editing things for work and I was, but also would take breaks to work on my stuff and build what now I am doing full time versus was just starting when I was still doing assistant editing.

[A]

What was a draw or appeal to leaving the corporate world and entering the sexual field?

[B]

One big draw for leaving was I was finding it hard to either be brought back on to different seasons of shows or different projects. I was feeling a disconnect with the people I was working with and just feeling a lot of burnout from having to really network a lot, put myself out there, be rejected, or, you know, get some long felt explanation for why I wasn't the best fit, even though I probably was just as a great fit as the other person.

[A]

And we're talking about. For the editing jobs.

[B]

For the editing jobs. Yeah, they're super competitive, especially in New York City. And I was in the union, which is even more competitive to stay in, let alone get in, just because they're more active on the west coast than the East Coast. But that was a draw for leaving. And then the second big draw was realizing that all of the side hustle, passive income work that I was doing was giving me a lot more joy and I felt a lot more freedom from.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I always remember people are always saying, you know, do what you love for work and you'll never feel like you worked a day in your life. And although that is true, it's also not.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because when you don't have a team of people helping you. It is still the grunt end of work. You're just more motivated to do it. Yeah. On top of it all, you're just motivated to do it more because you really are enjoying it. So that was also my draw for leaving and, like, trying to trusting that.

[A]

I can do this full time now with having herpes and doing sex work, at least partnered sex work. Are those conversations different than what they are in the vanilla world or in the dating world?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because I feel like if I was doing, let's see, a. A partnered scene, a lot of people in the industry don't even talk about HSV1 or HPV. It's more so sharing of your results. And what's on the panel, like, industry wise, which doesn't include HSV1 or HPV, it's more so oral swabs or genital swabs. Your usual chlamydia, gonorrhea, hiv. I think that's it. Oh, and then now for industry standard, they test mycoplasma as well, which, if you're not doing an industry standard test, you usually have to still ask for it because most industry people will not work with you if you're not testing for mycoplasma. And now that I'm on the subject of mycoplasma, I want to mention that if you're vanilla but having a lot of sex, you should also test for mycoplasma because you probably have it and are spreading it if you're having unprotected sex with a lot of people. Yeah. I feel like that's one of the biggest things I come across with, like, having sex with people who aren't sex positive or at least like, in the industry, a lot of people don't know what mycoplasma is until you test positive for it and know of someone who has it or a partner has it and then lets you know about it. Do you have experience with my.

[A]

I literally don't know what that is. And I was gonna sit here and just act like I did. And until you got to the point where you explained it and I was like, ah, that's not gonna happen.

[B]

It's literally just bacterial. And a lot of doctors will say that they're not testing for it or don't consider it an STI or an STD because it is just like bad bacteria. However, for the industry of making porn, they consider it an STI since it is bad bacteria. So if you do have A positive test, then it's like you're out of work for about four to eight weeks, depending on treatment. If you retest and the treatment didn't go through, and treatment is about 14 days, and depending on your provider, they'll suggest waiting another seven to. What is it, three or four weeks until you can test again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So it kind of. It's a lot for someone who works in the industry and to, like, test positive for it, at least. I have felt, like, very alienated, especially since a lot of my vanilla friends don't know about it. So I have found that I've become the spokesperson for mycoplasma.

[A]

Just get you a hat.

[B]

There's like, three different versions of it that you can test for, but it's all genitalia related.

[A]

All right, the next thing I was going to ask you. Oh, so how often are you tested or testing?

[B]

So it's. You're supposed to test every 14 days, and that's exhausting. So my regimen now is, let's say I test on the first of the month. I have that test for 14 days. And can you. Or. And can work unprotected within those 14 days. And then usually what I'll do, instead of getting that second test that I would in a month, I kind of take two weeks to just, like, not do work of that sort. So I'm not over testing myself. A lot of medical providers think it's kind of overkill to also test that often. And it also feels like overkill for me to be leaving my apartment twice a month, sometimes three times a month, if I was bad at scheduling collabs and whatnot. But now I'll do it once a month, basically.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

In short.

[A]

And that's more than some people attested in their lifetime. And it's interesting that we have this.

[B]

When I tell people every 14 days, they look at me like I'm crazy. Some medical professionals have looked at me like I'm crazy. And then when I disclose that I do porn, they're like, that makes more sense. But also, that shouldn't be a requirement. But it is.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean, it's. It's a lot safer of a recommendation.

[B]

No, definitely.

[A]

Than what anybody else is doing. Like, I know people who know that their partner might be true cheating on them and still haven't gone to get a test. I know people who popped up with something that they've had for who knows how long because they haven't had sex for a while, and then they test for chlamydia. And they're like, oh, I'm having these. I'm gonna finally go get tested. And then it's like, oh, I was positive for chlamydia. And it's just so such an interesting thing that the people who, I guess, were told, like, not to model or don't be like that. This is bad. Are the people who are exercising more cautiously than people who aren't?

[B]

Yeah. I think that's the biggest misconception. But also, I don't know why I feel like saying, got a moments, because what moment got them? Like, you got them. And I'll explain, because I feel like a lot of people not gotcha. Maybe it is gotcha. All right.

[A]

Gotcha. Like, gotcha.

[B]

Yeah. I guess it's one of the two. Tomato. Tomato. Either way, I feel like I thought.

[A]

That was, like, an east coast thing or something, because I was like, I have never heard that, but all right.

[B]

You know, I like to make things up sometimes, but I feel like a lot of people have or try to shame people who are more sexually liberated or positive, when really, for the most part, they're usually the people who are the most conscious and, like, aware and educated. Yeah. I always let my mom and sister know. I'm like you. You have all this, like, worry for me, but I'm gonna tell you, I'm the safest one in our circle of our family, probably, so you really shouldn't have to worry.

[A]

That sounds like one of the things where you know what's going on with, like, some other relatives.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're just like, listen, uncle, so and so old.

[B]

You should not be worried about me. Yeah, I've got it. All right.

[A]

Yeah. And so are you supported by your family? Immediate family, sister, mom? Like.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, it's. It's one of those things where it's like, as long as you're safe and are stable, we're happy for you. But also, we're not telling anybody else.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Nobody else should know about it. So it's.

[A]

But they haven't, like, treated you differently from any of your intersections of identity?

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. That's amazing.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, sure. I feel like it's. It's. It's. I haven't been treated any differently, but also, the way I get treated isn't really great in the first place. And that's more so why I have that reaction. A lot of the, like, bullying and shame that I experience.

[A]

What a transition. All right.

[B]

Comes from my immediate family, so. So that's kind of why teasing playfully or. Oh, all of the Above.

[A]

So this isn't, like, playful teasing.

[B]

I feel like they think it's playful, but when I put up the boundary that it's not playful and it keeps occurring now, it feels just, like, disrespect. Okay, so. Yeah.

[A]

And what's the difference there between, like, it being playful teasing and disresp Or. Yeah, boundaried.

[B]

Like, the difference is playful teasing for me. I don't know. I guess the tonality is a little different. But also, I think if you've already stated a clear boundary and not wanting to be teased or, like, have. Yeah. Like, my sex life be the punchline for someone, basically. Yeah. If I set that boundary up and it's crossed, I take that just as disrespect. For the most part, I'm trying to think of, like, a good example of teasing, but I can't think of any.

[A]

Imagine, like, that be more of a friends thing.

[B]

Like, friends partners. And even my friends, like, don't really tease me about it, which is why I'm like, what is an example of being teased that I would not be uncomfortable with? And it's probably more of a comment of someone maybe being like, oh, of course. Bats did that sexually explicit thing in, like, a teasing way. And, like, I guess the tease being, oh, we're not surprised.

[A]

Are we talking, like, a game of never have I ever.

[B]

I guess I'm trying to, like, come up with a. An example, and this is just where my mind is going. Would it happen with my mom and sister? Actually, yes, because we've definitely have played something like this on, like, a family holiday becomes a drinking game. And.

[A]

And you're like, never have I ever read Harry Potter book. And then they're like, never have I ever had two. A boyfriend and girlfriend.

[B]

Right, Right. And I'm like, oh, man. Yeah, basically.

[A]

All right. Navigating the rest of the world with these intersections of identities. Like, how are you? How is that for you?

[B]

Pretty good. I'm. I think I keep a good circle around myself, and the algorithm is not showing me anything that's gonna upset me, so I'm not having to deal with a lot of trolls or hate, thankfully. Because if that was an added pressure, my answer would be different.

[A]

Yeah, it. You seem very, like, like, grounded.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, my therapists, who I'm not seeing anymore because I'm doing so well, would say that one of my, like, positive growths this year is in, like, how calm I'm able to stay and grounded and just, like, the techniques that I do to stay grounded in like jealousy, for example, or shame. Yeah.

[A]

How do you. Well, I have two questions. One is, I thought that actually bats, like, meant, like, maybe that was short for batshit crazy or something.

[B]

Some people think that.

[A]

But I think I realized what it is based on what your intake form was. I think. I know. I'm not gonna say it on here. We can talk about it afterwards.

[B]

But I hope you remember.

[A]

I will. I won't forget this.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I won't forget this, but does bats have an origin?

[B]

The origin, honestly, is not as deep as people think it is.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But really, like, someone who I went to camp with years ago literally, drunkenly just referred to me as bats. And it. So it just so happened that the mascot for this camp was a bat as well. So it, like, made sense, even though I was still confused. But I remember, like, however many years following, needing an only fans account and being like, well, what am I gonna name myself? And sort of being like, bats has a nice ring to it. There are not really any bats out there. And then. And I was kind of like, well, you can't just be bats. You're not cher. So I, you know, was like, I am a goddess and I deserve to be worshiped. So I threw in the goddess in there, and. And that became me.

[A]

All right, all right. I think about how, like, childish Gambino's name came from a Wu Tang name generator.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

And you're like, well, no, I got, like, more of this detailed story, but it's still simple.

[B]

Yeah, still simple.

[A]

I will not forget to ask you about this when we get done.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then taking it back to. I. I think I want to do a little bit more into the rejection thing. And you being someone who's fem presenting, who initiates, like, when you're attracting someone, when you want, like, something with them.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, why?

[B]

Why initiate?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Closed mouths don't get fed.

[A]

That's a very hustler mindset. So the reason I asked, and I think you said men tend to be more direct in the. If they're not interested, whereas women will, like, act interested and not be sure. And there's a corner of the Internet where men would see that as, like, emasculating.

[B]

Oh, like initiating.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Anyone I'm initiating with is happy and not emasculated.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

If anything, they say that they wished that more people, femme presenting, would initiate with them because, you know, either they were playing this cat and mouse game for longer than they thought that they had to because, you know, they didn't want to be rejected. Themselves or something. And I think in my experience, I started initiating around high school and I noticed in high school, yeah, like, I think the first ever boyfriend that I got, I initiated, and everyone was surprised that I pulled him. That relationship didn't even last very long, but it, like, became my. I don't know, it, it was something that stuck in my wheelhouse.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And even though, like, the next couple of relationships that I got into, I didn't initiate still in my then, like, single life, I would initiate dates or would playfully try to, you know, like, reel someone in and let them know that I was interested so then they can initiate. Admittingly, I do that more with other femmes, which is also interesting. I don't know why I find it easier to initiate with a man. And I think that maybe it's because I know I'm not going to get rejected because I usually am not rejected by men. And I'll leave it at that.

[A]

A lot of dudes don't get that. Like, oftentimes I think that we're expected to do the initiating, but also we live in a world where I think there's a lot of fear. So I'm part of this men's group, men's circle, and sometimes these topics come up. And one of the guys who was there before, I won't go into too much detail, but he shared that his nephew is Gen Z. And he was like, oh, that girl's cute. He's like, why don't you go talk to her? And it's like, beyond him that he wouldn't go talk to her. And the guy was like, well, no, I don't want to end up on somebody's Instagram. Like, you got this to worry about. Like, if she does reject me, that thing is not between her and I. It's between me, her, and whoever's in her group chat, the Tick Tock video, all of that.

[B]

I'm laughing because I know someone else who goes to your group. And they brought that same example up similarly. So I was like, oh, I already know this story.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I wanted you to.

[A]

It was. I, I. But that's kind of like, I guess the world that a lot of men operate. Operate in and where somebody comes up and they're just like.

[B]

But I do think it is a Gen Z thing because at least in my circle of friends, and I'm a millennial, I suppose I'm not hearing about people being aired out on social media and none of my friends are, are really airing people out like that. But I guess it's happening.

[A]

I don't think it is. Not as much. The example is, oh, my God, what's her name? Doja Cat. And the dude gave her a T shirt.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And looking at that interaction, there was so much that was going on, like, between, is she uncomfortable or is she not uncomfortable? Is he, like, crossing boundaries? Like, there was a whole subset of things that were happening underneath. What could be observed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Nobody, like, knows about. And seeing something like that get platformed. And this was a gay man who was like, to men, we were like, oh, he was nice to her. Literally invited him. Like, we can't do anything. Right. So I don't know if I want to approach someone and they seem open to it, and we exchange numbers, and then I go home and I find out that, you know, on Twitter, like, they didn't want that, but I got the number. And I think a lot of us experience that. So it's, like, refreshing. Especially, like, if you see somebody that you're interested in. I think a lot of people might think, oh, that person's out of my league, or, oh, they won't be interested in me, or, oh, they'll reject me for having herpes. But it's just like, shoot your shot.

[B]

Right. That's kind of how I see it too. If you don't shoot your shot, how would you know? How would you experience whatever is to come? And I think that's also been, if I really want something, I'm going to initiate for it.

[A]

All right. Tools for managing the things. So being polyamorous, you mentioned jealousy and that you're not in therapy because you're doing so well. Talk to me about that. How'd you graduate therapy where you just like, I ain't got nothing to talk about, literally.

[B]

I, I, I was t. I think I kept talking about maybe, like, something else that was going on in my life, but I was like, I got the tools. Actually, I'm just bringing this up still. And my therapist was like, all right, well, think about something you. You want to work on or work towards. And I was like.

[A]

Not meeting you.

[B]

I guess I don't need to really work through anything. Like, I've got the tools. And the tools would be really reflecting on whatever situation I'm going through. And some things that I often use is like, what is the proof that this thing that I'm overthinking is real or true? And oftentimes there is no proof. It's. There is no proof. It's just me overthinking a situation and thinking about all the things that can go wrong when historically, if I think about my anxiety, I can kind of recall, you know, things going well and having that be something that grounds me. Especially with jealousy. For example, I'm in a new relationship, and if my partner is going out on a date, I find that I feel jealous because my love language is quality time. So I'm jealous. You're spending time with someone else, and it isn't me. But I have to ground myself in knowing that I get to see you almost 24 hours every single day, all day of the week. So me allowing you maybe four to eight hours of the day to, you know, do whatever you need to do, go to the gym, do laundry, maybe go on this date is normal and okay and doesn't affect your interest in me or your desire or so things like that. To keep myself grounded in knowing that any anxiety that I have is just anxiety and isn't actually true. I shouldn't give it that power.

[A]

Now is it the time that they're gone or what they're doing in the time that they're gone? Because is it different if, like, what do you mean, you got to go to work?

[B]

Like, I don't. Like, I never get jealous at going to work. But I will say my partner. Partner works with a lot of women, and those women are always shooting their shot because my partner is gorgeous. I'm so lucky. But also, my jealousy is always stemmed or not stemmed, but maybe activated.

[A]

Oh, I thought you meant stemmed, like short for stimulated.

[B]

Stimulated, but also activated. I think more so. So some things that my partner will do to keep me grounded is letting me know that they don't mix business with pleasure. And if someone at work is hinting that their desire exists for them, they're going to shut it down. And. Or if they are interested, they're going to let them know to, like, not do it at work and that, you know, they can talk or find some time afterwards. But, yeah, it's interesting because it also definitely is dependent on the things that they do. And for example, my partner thinks that I shouldn't have felt so jealous because they had left a date. Not kissing the girl on the mouth, but leaving her with a kiss on the hand.

[A]

Oh, that's like more intimate or something. More intimate. What the.

[B]

What the hell? And then telling me, yeah, you know, I was just, like, kissing up on her, but not really kissing on her, just, know, teasing. And I'm like, oh, so now she's gonna think about you all weekend. And. And in his head, he's like, oh, my. I was being more of a gentleman and, like, not, you know. Yeah. I was like, I should be the only one getting that kind of treatment.

[A]

Did you open the door for.

[B]

How dare you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, having to, like, stay grounded in, like, it is okay and normal for, like, things that happen with me to happen with other people. It's not diminishing anything. It's normal. It's okay.

[A]

Yeah. I always, too, feel like coming back is a choice.

[B]

Right, exactly.

[A]

To stay and to continue to, like, choose you. I think that means a little bit more than if he weren't. To have the options to. If it was only you. I don't know if that makes any sense.

[B]

Yeah, it does.

[A]

Okay. All right. So it's like, y' all are consistently.

[B]

Choosing to return back to each other and to, like, kind of give each other the priority that we do in each other's lives because, like, we're building towards something. Like, I'm hoping this is the person I marry and maybe he gets a child from me. Who knows? But, like, knowing those things, it's like, yeah, of course I'm going to take you into consideration.

[A]

The way you said that.

[B]

What?

[A]

No, no, yeah, we. We got to talk about it. But the way you said that, that was very. That was a very specific thing.

[B]

I get what you mean. I know exactly what I did and what I said it.

[A]

So the prioritization like that. That sounds. Damn. What was I going to say? The. The. The.

[B]

I know it caught you off guard, but that's also be just for context. Previously. In all of my relationships, I've always felt unsatisfied, I guess. And the thought of settling down or having a child, coming from, you know, divorced parents, I feel like I just always wrote off getting married or having children or even wanting children, because I logically know you're giving up so much of yourself for the betterment of this child. And, yeah, that's like, a big thing. So I think a part of me for most of my life has always been like, I don't want children, because that's the easier. It's an easy way out, kind of. But also, yeah, not finding a partner who I feel like could. Confident in my ability to do that with.

[A]

Yeah, that's big because I. I've gone back.

[B]

Some adult stuff.

[A]

We don't. Went all over the place. Right. But, yeah, I've always thought that, like, I can't do what I do and have a family. And then, like, there were periods where I thought that I could do Both. And then it was like kind of it's one or the other. And so, like, I still don't know what that could look like. And it's nice to be able to have the option. It's nice to be able to choose, like, all right, well, here's what we're doing now. And then be open to whatever it is. But I do think that it does take, like the right aligned partner. And it sounds like that's what you're looking at right now with this person in.

[B]

I mean, misalignments also happen and, like, things can change. So I'm also aware of that. But I mean, if all things are good, then I'm more open now.

[A]

Yeah. All right. Is there anything else that you want to leave people listening with before I let you go? And is there anything that you're like super passionate about that you want to share?

[B]

Something to leave you listeners with I think is kind of just the reminder of your anxieties are just thoughts and aren't your reality. And I'm leaving that with everyone because I feel like even if you don't have an anxiety disorder, everyone deals with some level of anxiety in their life. And something I'm super passionate about is humanizing sex workers and letting people know that were just humans who really like to do this one thing. But we're also able to do so many other things too.

[A]

Cool. How can people connect with you?

[B]

You can connect with me on Instagram, actually, bats. And even if you don't have Instagram, maybe still go to Instagram just to find a link where then you can find me just about anywhere else.

[A]

Okay, podcast. Is that still a thing? Do we want to talk about that? All right.

[B]

I was like, I don't know what's gonna happen.

[A]

So if you want to listen to.

[B]

Old episodes at Consensual Carnage podcast on Instagram.

[A]

And what's the podcast called?

[B]

Yeah, Consensual Carnage. The podcast on Spotify, Apple, wherever you can listen to a podcast. YouTube.

[A]

Awesome. All right, that concludes this episode of Something Positive for positive people. Please like Rate, Review Share subscribe to the podcast Follow me on Instagram at Courtney Brain. First and Sunday, Mon. Or first and Sunday Monday. Wow. First Monday of each month at 7:30 Eastern Time, there's a virtual herpes support group. The second Monday is a virtual men's herpes support group. And I'm working on what third and fourth Sundays are going to be. And then if there's a fifth Sunday, I rest. All right. We have some stuff on the events tab we'll be at sex down south September 4 through 7. I'll be hosting a workshop there for people with herpes. I'll be hosting, like, a men's meetup Special interest group. That's the word I was looking for. November 7th through 9th, the day before my birthday, I'll be in Indianapolis for the Midwest Love Fest. We'll have another one of those herpes discussions there. And we're gonna do karaoke someday. If you're in New York. I'm trying to do karaoke soon. I can't say the date because I don't know if I'm gonna post this podcast next week or the week after. And karaoke will have happened. But be on standby for, like, a karaoke thing. All right. And I think that's all. If you haven't subscribed to the newsletter already, please go to spfpp.org herpes-newsletter or you'll get a pop up about 30 seconds into browsing on the website. All right, till next time, stay present. And you. It's weird. Like, you just. You had to sit there through that.

[B]

It's okay. Oh, it's funny because I've first I was like, being funny, and I was like, oh, yes, writing notes.

[A]

Oh, I didn't hit record.

[B]

I'm lying with you.

[A]

No.

[B]

So lying. I was.