Miranda (2:17)

You think you know me.

Morgan (2:19)

You don't know me well at all.

Narrator / Interviewer (2:25)

You don't know anybody till you talk

Rihanna (2:35)

to

Miranda (2:39)

someone.

Narrator / Interviewer (2:44)

Previously on Something Was Wrong.

Miranda (2:47)

By my last semester in school, the veil had been completely lifted and I had no interest in seeing him at all. Once I had graduated, I then decided that I wanted to file a Title IX complaint against him.

Olivia (3:03)

She asked, do you remember a few years ago when all that Title 9 shit happened and I Said yes. And she was like, well, all of it was true. I offered to be a witness if she wanted me to be.

Rihanna (3:16)

The first time we filed the Title IX report, Miranda did not feel comfortable disclosing that this relationship was happening. And now she's going to. And again, the adults in my life, they didn't have all the information, and they're going to do the right thing now. And Cato is not going to have access to these young girls.

Miranda (3:37)

Within a month, my life was the same. His life was, as far as I know, pretty much the same. Nothing changed. Emily, who was Olivia's professor advocate at uco, Emily's distant cousin Sheila took on our case. We had a few zoom meetings with Sheila about the process of Title IX and the implications of our suit. They submitted the complaint in May of 2021.

Narrator / Interviewer (4:07)

Here's Olivia.

Olivia (4:09)

There were seven plaintiffs in our lawsuit. Me and Miranda, our professor that was my faculty liaison, and then several other girls, including Morgan, who had experienced sexual harassment or, like, inappropriate behavior, retaliation from Cato. It was originally that professor's idea to start the lawsuit because after Title IX did nothing and she was still working there, she didn't lose her job, but pretty much lost her job over it. We met with the attorney, and again, we felt like this person really wants to help us. She felt confident that the case was really strong. Miranda felt really good about having a new chance at getting some sort of resolution to this. But that process was genuinely fucking humiliating. It was so awful. Essentially, what ended up happening was the lawsuit got filed, it got picked up by the media. It was everywhere. His face was on the news, and it was being shared by everybody that we knew from college, not from college. And there were a couple articles that were being shared that, like, names weren't redacted. And so for Miranda, she felt really mortified because we knew that it would be in the press, but we didn't understand how that would feel. So that day that it got picked up, I was at work and I saw the email from our attorney and texted Miranda. She was also at work. And we both left immediately. Came to my house. I have never seen Miranda like that in my life. It was heartbreaking. That whole day and, like, weeks that followed, it would bubble up every now and again where people would start sharing it. Bunches of people dropped out, and they were having meetings about it and protests.

Morgan (5:54)

It was a whole thing.

Olivia (5:55)

It was hard because I think she felt in a lot of ways that all these people that weren't even her friends in college suddenly now cared so much about it, but never cared to, like, reach out or say any whenever they noticed that he was inappropriate with her. But also, just having your most intimately traumatizing experience publicized like that with your name on it, was something that I don't think that she could have ever prepared for or really any of us could have ever prepared for. And as a friend watching her experience that, it's almost like there was nothing that I could say to make that better for her. And we were all dealing with it in our own way because everybody's name was on it. But the details that she shared were a lot different than the details everybody else had shared. It was a really isolating time for all of the people involved. But especially for Miranda, when the media

Narrator / Interviewer (6:44)

coverage came out, did other people come forward? Or did you have people in your life that were sharing with you red flags that they saw?

Olivia (6:53)

No, not really. I think Miranda did, but I kind of went ghost whenever this all happened. Like, my way of dealing with it has been I just want it to be over. It was really hard. And most of why it was hard for me, honestly, was because seeing Miranda like that was really difficult. And I just wanted whatever resolution was going to be best for everybody. I had one person from the university reach out to, like, ask me to talk about it for something or ask my permission about sharing parts of it, and I didn't respond. I left the university. I dipped as soon as the lawsuit became public because I felt really unsafe there. It isn't just something that happened to me. So many of us have this tiny little part in this whole big story, because I think it goes far beyond the time that I was there and the time that Miranda was there.

Narrator / Interviewer (7:45)

Here's Rihanna.

Rihanna (7:46)

After the Title IX findings came back that essentially nothing was going to happen, Miranda came to me and said, hey, I have been discussing this with the lawyer, and I want to know if you would be willing to participate in it. I believe UCO's Title IX department did not protect us. Of course, I agreed to be a part of the lawsuit.

Narrator / Interviewer (8:10)

What was that process like?

Rihanna (8:12)

So we all had to write a statement detailing what happened with Cato and what we experienced. A bunch of women came together and shared a very similar experience without communicating between each other. Then we had a few meetings with lawyers, and they filed. It was during COVID so it was all zoom meetings, and then it was a lot of waiting, and then UCO moving to dismiss, because of course they did.

Narrator / Interviewer (8:39)

When the story broke in the media, when the lawsuit was filed, what was the public response like, and what was that experience like from your perspective?

Rihanna (8:51)

I think with the students at UCO this time around, we actually had a lot of support. I remember students protesting, showing up at the dean's office and demanding that Cato be fired or removed from his position. I remember having a lot of support from the students in the theater department. Social media was a bit of a different story. It's absolutely terrifying to have some of your, like, deepest trauma put in this black and white document that anyone can read through and come to their own determination about. So I spent a lot of time scrolling and obsessing and reading any negative comment because of course your brain wants to zero in on that. It was just so many emotions. I was so, so happy to have this group of women who were acknowledging that we had this shared experience and there was so much love there. And then it was terrifying to have this really vulnerable part of yourself shared. It feels like standing naked in a group of people and allowing them to make this judgment or these comments about who you are and what you're doing. It was a lot of conflicting emotions.

Narrator / Interviewer (10:06)

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Morgan (14:27)

Here's Morgan I was contacted by Rihanna. This would have been mid-2021. She reached out to me and said that I should get in contact with Emily regarding a possible Title 9 case. I didn't know what all it had to do with or who all was involved, but I reached out to Emily because I was curious, and she told me to call her. And I did. And that's when she informed me about Miranda and Olivia's report in 2020 and how UCO brushed it off. I was like, oh, been there. Emily really didn't know much about my story. She, I think, at one point had heard some rumors about it or had seen something online. And she asked Kato about it. And he said that there was a Title 9 investigation regarding me and an inappropriate joke he made. It is what Emily told him. She told me that she thought she had access to a lawyer who would take our case. He was very good at these types of cases and was very familiar with them. I was like, yeah, sure, I'm in. Because at that point, I felt like I had already told my story and nothing had happened. I had already been exiled from the community, and so I really had nothing to lose at that point. What could they do to me? I was graduated. Everyone already knew as far as I thought, my story, and no one gave a shit. So, sure, I'll write my story again and put it in a lawsuit. And so that's how I was named as one of the plaintiffs, the lawyer. She was very thorough with me. She got the information that she needed. I sent her my statements. I sent her all of the documents that I had gotten from uco. I thought the process was relatively easy. We signed the form. I really wasn't expecting any sort of payout. She said that if it looked like we were going to go to trial, that it would take a long time and that it would be a big process. I reached out to Olivia and Miranda in particular. Those were the two that I felt like this entire situation had negatively affected our relationship. And so I remember reaching out to both of them and kind of just clearing the air and telling my side of what happened. They told their side of what happened, and we really connected some dots.

Narrator / Interviewer (17:11)

What did it feel like when the story broke into the media after the initial lawsuit was filed?

Morgan (17:19)

I was very nervous for it to drop because I am a speech and debate and theater educator. I didn't know how it was going to affect my job or my ability to interact with the community. But as far as the specifics, I had already told my story. I felt like this was a chance for me to kind of be like, see, I did tell y' all that this was happening. We got some comments from people in the department. A lot of people reached out to me and apologized. A lot of people said that they were with us. I thought that some sort of justice was going to be served. I thought that someone was going to be held responsible. I knew that we weren't suing Cato, that we were suing UCO and the institution. And I think it was the lawsuit that made me realize more that it wasn't just Cato that had failed us. It was a lot of people that let us down. And I thought that that was going to change. The lawsuit dropped in May of 2021. When the university didn't fire him, I knew that there was not going to be any real protection for the students.

Miranda (18:43)

Here's Miranda after we filed, the university, pretty quickly after the fact filed, filed a motion to dismiss, which she had anticipated. Sheila and her team, this was in 2021, in October, had submitted a motion to strike the dismissal and that was as far as the case went. I'll just read what our lawyer sent to us May of 2022, she said. As you know, we have been in a holding pattern for months because of the court's rules against proceeding with discovery while a motion to dismiss is pending. I've been watching with interest. As you know, I have the protests and escalating outcry from UCO students. Our firm has also filed another Title IX case on behalf of a current UCO student arising out of a sexual assault. The heat has definitely been rising for uco, unfortunately. I'm writing today to inform you of an unexpected decision by the United States Supreme Court that significantly impacts your claims. Late last week, the Supreme Court ruled that damages for emotional distress are not available under four federal statutes bearing race, sex and disability discrimination, including Title ix. She's talking about like the case in which this was ruled. Although the plaintiffs in this case sued for disability discrimination under the Rehabilitation act and the Affordable Care act, the Supreme Court acknowledged that the decision applied equally to Title 6, which bars discrimination on basis of race, and Title 9. Reasoning that these four statutes operate as a contract between the federal government and the institution receiving federal funds, the Court held that the recipient of the funds can only be liable for damages generally available for breach of contract. Therefore, because emotional distress damages are generally not a remedy available under contract law, the Supreme Court concluded that such damages are not available under these discrimination statutes. The decision represents a radical departure for Title IX case law and has left lawyers and advocacy groups reeling. For decades, courts have operated under the assumption that emotional distress damages were available under Title IX Indeed, in many cases, emotional distress damages were the only damages sought and awarded. While discussions are underway to determine the best course of action to address the decision on a national level, we are concerned about the impact in this decision will have on your claims. We have already received a motion to dismiss a Title IX claim for emotional distress based on the decision filed by a defendant university. In another case we're handling, we anticipate UCO will file a similar motion. We are evaluating our strategy, including considering whether we can amend our complaint to bring claims under another theory. Please note that we are working on this from every possible angle and we will keep you posted. Then we had a very sad meeting where we discussed everything. We talked a bit more in depth about this and the implication, meaning that it was likely to never go anywhere. She didn't really get back to us with any ideas on how else to file or what we should do. So from 2022 until the last couple of months, it existed in this weird limbo where the university never filed another motion to dismiss based off of the change in Title 9. But the judge or the university never responded to our response to the motion to dismiss. So it was just like sitting there and nothing happened.

Narrator / Interviewer (22:09)

So it sounds like you were working against not only statute of limitations, but the supreme court ruling of 2022.

Miranda (22:16)

Yeah. Morgan found an article recently that said that the case was officially dropped, but they never informed us. It's from, I think it's like a lawyer magazine. It says, after a nearly two year gap in court filings, a separate lawsuit filed by six former UCO theater students alleging the university failed to protect them from sexual harassment by Kato Buss. It was jointly dismissed by the plaintiffs and the university in February. We had no idea. No one told us that we were choosing to dismiss it because the article specifically says a joint dismissal. We didn't decide to do that, but I guess they did. People protested at the university a little bit, and the attention from the lawsuit did pull him out of teaching a lot of classes as of today. Right now, he still teaches classes online. I don't think he teaches in person, but he's still tenured and employed by university. So culturally it did do some good because it did remove him from a lot of his power at the university, which is great. The lawsuit kind of went nowhere. It was just attention from the public that did that.

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Olivia (24:58)

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Narrator / Interviewer (26:15)

What did you ultimately hear from the lawyer?

Morgan (26:19)

About a year after we filed the lawsuit, she let us know about a Supreme Court decision that came out that affected Title IX cases, specifically their ability to seek emotional damages.

Narrator / Interviewer (26:38)

Here's Morgan again.

Morgan (26:39)

She wrote us a long email using some legalese and doing her best to kind of explain it in layman's terms, but basically saying that this is a real blow to our case but that she was going to look into other options for us and that she would be in contact. And then I never heard from her again. It had been a while after we got that email from the lawyer. One of us looked it up on the PACER website and it was still just in limbo and I thought, oh well, maybe the case will go through anyway, I had no idea. Earlier this year I sent a follow up email, replied all to the lawyer asking if there was an update and I didn't hear anything. I sent another follow up email and still didn't hear anything. I was doing some googling and I was trying to get back on the PACER website and figure out where our case ended up. And then I found maybe it was a blog article. I don't remember talking about how one of UCO's multiple Title 9 lawsuits had been dismissed. And so I read it and turns out it was ours. So I sent that to the plaintiff's group chat that we have and said, did y' all know our case had been dismissed? And a couple of people did, but a lot of them didn't.

Narrator / Interviewer (28:07)

And what did that feel like for you?

Morgan (28:09)

It felt like, I guess maybe like a tiny bit of closure. I knew that nothing was going to come from this case. If we can't sue for emotional damages, then what's the point of suing? We didn't have the faculties to do a big lawsuit like that and to fight a huge Universe University for pennies. No one was going to take that case and we didn't have the money to fund that case on principle. These Title IX cases, they happen because there was money to be won. That's why law firms took these cases. So finding out that it had been dismissed and that we weren't even notified was frustrating, but not surprising. It's odd because this feeling that I'm sitting in, you'd think I would have a name for it because it's such a familiar feeling. I've been through this process multiple times now just regarding this situation. It's interesting that we're having this conversation now because post finding out that the lawsuit had been dismissed. I felt a real desire to talk about this, but didn't really have a platform or really a way to start it. I don't know if Cato was teaching classes in person or not anymore. I don't know how many people in the theater department know his story. But I know that if UCO wasn't willing to protect us back when they could have lost a lot of money on it and back when the news broke and back when I reported in 2017 and back when Miranda and Liv reported in 2020. There's no reason for them to protect students now. And so I'm at a loss for how we protect students now. Who might be going through this process besides screaming it from the mountaintops that this is wrong and this is what happened and despite what anyone else tells you, it's not okay.

Narrator / Interviewer (30:26)

How do you view Miranda and Olivia today?

Morgan (30:29)

I'm not close with them. I don't see them very often. We don't speak, except occasionally in that group chat. But I hope that they're doing well. I see both of them as strong individuals who probably had more in common with me than I realized then. I do think about whether their lives would be the same if all of this hadn't happened or not, because both of them were theater performance majors. I know that you probably become a performance major because you want to perform, and I don't think either of them are performing anymore. And that's sad.

Narrator / Interviewer (31:09)

What do you want institutions, especially universities, to understand about the impact of ignoring this kind of misconduct?

Morgan (31:18)

I would like for institutions to take a step back and think about the implications of their actions. Long term. It would be much easier to take responsibility for a staff member. For a faculty who acts poorly. It would be far easier and better for your reputation and frankly, your pocketbook than it is to hide and to continue to stand by mediocre men who are part of your departments and continue to let the lifeblood of your institutions continue to be victimized. I. I can't understand why universities, why specifically UCO, would go through so much heartache. They jumped through so many hoops to protect this man, and for what? After multiple Title IX cases, after several women came forward, I understand that it's hard to take responsibility and that we live in a very sue happy world. But what are schools and universities for if not the students? I'm realizing now that the policy the UCO was using for reporting Title 9 and the investigation and all of that was entirely centered around the accused and didn't at all give space for, for the person reporting it. And I feel like it shouldn't have to be said that students should be the center of their priorities and their policy making.

Narrator / Interviewer (33:08)

What do you hope that listeners will hold onto as they listen to this story, these episodes?

Morgan (33:14)

I hope that listeners will take away that while there is a pattern that a lot of these abusers and a lot of these institutions will use one, there's a strength in that because that means that we're onto their game. And while there might be a pattern to it, it's important to listen to individuals and their experiences because if I hadn't been open to listening to other people and what was happening to them, I never would have felt comfortable reporting in the first place. And also, if you're going to report to Title ix, they are not your friends and they will tell you indirectly and they will imply otherwise, but they are not there for you.

Narrator / Interviewer (34:02)

Morgan, I can't thank you enough for your time and your energy. And I appreciate that you were willing and you added so much valuable insight and information and perspective. Here's Rihanna again.

Rihanna (34:16)

I really am so proud of the women involved in that suit. The Supreme Court making that decision has no impact on how much strength and courage it took to come forward and to have your name publicly attached to this case and to have your trauma publicly displayed for everyone to look at and judge. It was so scary to be involved in, but it also felt so, so, so empowering to finally say, like, as a group, hey, we experienced this and it was wrong and someone needs to be held accountable for it. I don't understand how an institution can want to hold on to this man who has caused so much harm. I understand why he wants to retain any power he can. But I fundamentally cannot understand why a university would go to such lengths to protect a man who has admitted he abuses students, who has admitted that he has engaged in inappropriate relationships with students. I can't wrap my head around it.

Narrator / Interviewer (35:15)

How do you feel like these events have affected your sense of trust in institutions or authority figures?

Rihanna (35:23)

I have none. I have told my wife multiple times, I want to go back to school. I want to engage in theater again. I want to do these things with my life. And I don't trust the institutions. I don't trust myself not to fall prey to a situation like this again. It sounds small, I feel like, but I don't trust theater productions. I don't trust directors. I wouldn't trust my fellow actors. It has completely eroded my sense of trust and my love for something that Was like a crucial part of me and such a big dream and goal. I can't do it anymore. And even going to school for something not related to theater, I'm just scared. I'm scared to become involved in any of these institutions again because I know that they don't actually care about what happens to their students.

Narrator / Interviewer (36:16)

Are there any specific modalities or things that you've incorporated in your life that have aided you in healing?

Rihanna (36:25)

EMDR therapy is life changing. It's the reason that I am alive and well adjusted. If you are struggling with intense trauma, EMDR therapy could change your life. It helped me process so much trauma in what would have taken years for talk therapy. I was able to accomplish with EMDR in months. I highly recommend seeking out EMDR therapy.

Narrator / Interviewer (36:54)

What do you hope sharing your perspective will accomplish? What do you hope that listeners perhaps take away?

Rihanna (37:01)

I have felt incredibly powerless and voiceless in this experience. The Title IX determinations, they were decided and it was ended. The lawsuit. The Supreme Court decided and then the lawsuit was ended. The lawsuit was ended on like a random Tuesday. I was at work and we have a group chat of the plaintiffs. I just got a text saying it was over the publication that released that the last words were from uco. They didn't reach out to any of us. So I felt so powerless and voiceless. My ultimate goal in every time I filed the Title 9 or filed the lawsuit was, I don't want this to happen again. I want to share this so it doesn't happen again. I think every time those cases were closed or the lawsuit was shut down, it just eroded any confidence or any power I felt. And Miranda reached out to me and texted me and said that she was doing this interview trying to share your story and trying to share your experience matters. It may feel like no one is listening or that you're voiceless or powerless and you're not. When the lawsuit ended, I never thought I would have an opportunity to speak out and to share about this. Keep trying, keep sharing, keep protecting.

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Narrator / Interviewer (41:04)

here's Olivia.

Olivia (41:06)

All of a sudden we hear from the attorney and she is like, there's a good chance the case is going to get thrown out. I will let you know. And we never hear from her again. It was incredibly disheartening and the case ended up getting dismissed. We actually just found that out very recently and it's been over five years since the lawsuit was filed. So it was such a lengthy process and for so much of that time we knew that the case would be dropped. But to actually find it out and not find it out directly from this attorney that had really made it seem like she cared was pretty awful.

Narrator / Interviewer (41:40)

What do you think Cato's response would be today to these allegations?

Olivia (41:46)

I remember when we did the Title nine after Miranda told me about what happened, that he didn't deny it. He told the truth. But I think it's one thing to tell the truth and it's one thing to take accountability. I think he probably wouldn't deny what happened, but I think he would continue to do what he's been doing for the past five years. I think he would continue to do that because I think that he will never be brave enough to actually be accountable for his actions and to put himself through his paces, changing his behavior and becoming a better person and understanding that, like, he needs to remove himself from that situation, which obviously the university should have done that. But if they're not going to, I would hope that in his old age and wisdom that he would be able to recognize that that's what he needs to do. I would want people to know that bad things happen and sometimes you don't realize it. And the best thing that you can do is just love the people around you through the challenges that they face because you genuinely like. You don't know until it happens to you or somebody close to you, like, what it feels like to experience that, especially to, like, young girls. No grown man in your life, especially not a teacher or a boss, should ever be getting you alone or making you feel emotionally vulnerable or giving you alcohol or trying to start a romantic relationship with you. Like, if that happens, it is not okay. It is not because he loves you. It's manipulative. It's an abuse of power. And as much as this case didn't get the resolution that I feel like it deserved, and Miranda didn't get what she needed from it, I hope that other people will have a different experience whenever they tell somebody. I think that the only way that that can happen is if we really hold the institutions that are responsible for, like, protecting these type of men, especially if we hold their feet to the fire. There's so many of us that they can't not listen, even though it's difficult. Support the cause in every way that you can and show up for the people that come forward, telling you what's happened to them. And love your friends, female friendship especially, like, it is the most magical thing. Love your girlfriends more than anything, because that is the most ride or die relationship that will ever happen in your life.

Narrator / Interviewer (44:03)

Could not agree more. Miranda had mentioned that you went and saw a play John Proctor is the villain, and that it really felt like a mirror being held up. What do you remember about that experience together?

Morgan (44:17)

Okay.

Olivia (44:17)

I'll probably cry whenever I talk about that. Marina and I are extremely close. We have this ironclad friendship. It's, like, the most special thing ever, truthfully. Like, we are each other's family. We have obviously been through so much. It was a really rough summer, and I bought us tickets to go see this play. And I was really hesitant to do it because I didn't want to, like, take her to something that was going to upset her. But she has talked a lot about how she, now that the dust has settled, really, really wants to be able to tell her side of things. And I want that for her so bad. And I was hoping that, like, maybe seeing the play would kind of inspire that. We went and watched the play, and it's about these girls at a high school who have a teacher that is grooming them. And there are these two main girls, and it is like me and Miranda in pretty much every way. I knew what the play was about, but I didn't know how close to home it would feel. At the end of it. They, like, do this dance to this Lord song, and Miranda and I are, like, sobbing absolutely just a mess during all of this. It was just incredibly special to, like, sit there and take that in together because it felt like, for the first time, in an odd way, like we were seeing that experience wasn't just unique to what had happened when we were in college. And I know for her, it was really special to see another young girl represented who had been through the exact same kind of thing that she had. So there was a lot of catharsis about it. It just felt very appropriate for the place that we're in in our lives now. Time having passed, gone through all of this together and still as close as we are, and to be able to watch a story about other women who have experienced that was just really special to both of us. It just speaks to, like, how much we love each other and how much we look at that experience as something horrible. There's nothing that we wouldn't do to, like, support each other to the ends of the earth. There's nothing that I wouldn't do for her to get the opportunity to, like, make it her own story instead of it being communicated through an attorney or a university or other people. I do want to be totally clear that I'm really here just so that Miranda can have the support that she needs. And if there's anything I can do to, like, amplify her voice in any way, that's what I want to do. Especially being a fan of the podcast and we've listened to so much of it together, I think that it's really cool for her to have this opportunity. So mostly just want to thank you for like, allowing her to share that side of the story and allowing me to play a small part in it.

Narrator / Interviewer (46:50)

Thank you so, so much for all of your time and energy. What has Olivia's friendship meant to you throughout this process?

Miranda (46:59)

Everything.

Narrator / Interviewer (47:00)

Here's Miranda again.

Miranda (47:02)

We joke all the time about how we experience something so shitty and something so awful. Our friendship is the best thing to come out of this. He obviously didn't want us to remain friends as my relationship with him went on. And I'm sorry. Deeply grateful to her that she never questioned why I was distant. There was never a question of if her relationship with him was more important. She's always been my biggest support system and I can't imagine doing any of this without her. I mean, it's kind of because of her that I am here. I hope that everyone is able to have an Olivia in their life.

Narrator / Interviewer (47:45)

What has the last few years look like for you?

Miranda (47:49)

They've been pretty good. I did move to New York in 2021. I am still here. I live with my boyfriend partner who is my best friend. He actually, aside from Rihanna, was the first person that I ever talked about my experience with Cato with. We had gone out together one night and I told him what happened, and I don't even think he particularly remembers this moment, but to me, it was a really big moment because I hadn't told anyone. This would have been in, like, summer of 2019, right after I graduated college. I don't think I, like, went into the extent of how bad things were, really. We dated casually for a couple of years and then ran into each other in Oklahoma after we had both moved to New York separately and have been together ever since. My relationship with him has been really healing in a lot of ways. That's a really big part of my life. I have a great job. I no longer act. After I graduated college, I decided that I just, like, didn't know how to exist in that world, really. Cato would say that I was a really excellent actor, but I had no idea. And it shot a lot of my confidence in that world. I'm pretty confident that I'll get back to it someday when I have the time to really lean into it. Like, I would want to I've been in lots of therapy since 2019. Different therapist for different reasons, but I am okay. This was a very intense, traumatic period of my life and it was amplified because I was so young and it was really formative for me in so many ways. But I am so lucky to have such a great support system. I'm to a point in my journey with this where it doesn't affect me daily anymore and I don't have to think about him all the time. It was a really shitty thing that happened to me and to some other people, but it's no longer the end of my world and that's been really nice to come to terms with. Doing this podcast helps a lot with developing some closure, which is really what I've been after this whole time is just a feeling of closure, which I'm realizing can kind of only be supplied by myself.

Narrator / Interviewer (50:13)

What made you decide to participate in the podcast and be willing to share, which we're so thankful for?

Miranda (50:19)

I am a longtime listener, so I've listened to it a lot. I probably started listening in 2021 when I moved to New York and started commuting a lot. I always envisioned myself submitting, mostly just because I never got to talk about it in my own way. I never got to make a post on Facebook about it because I was in the middle of the lawsuit. So many other people had so many opinions about this and I had to keep all of mine to myself. One of the things that I really focused on in therapy that helped me a lot is that silence is the opposite of shame. And shame is something that I struggled with a lot in all of this. I find that every time that I tell this story and am able to talk about it, the lighter I feel and the more it feels like I am able to really overcome and feel healed.

Narrator / Interviewer (51:22)

Next time on Something Was Wrong.

Olivia (51:25)

I just happened to be catching up on podcasts last week. It being Something was Wrong and I was sitting in a grocery parking lot when I was listening to the current season, the beginning of it, talking about the survivors from University of Central Oklahoma. And the name Cato was familiar to me because I know Cato best. The one on one personal attention started to grow. Soon we were going on rides together around town. I didn't really know to put the words shame and anxiety and tie that to what my body was doing at the time, but certainly the shame lasted the longest.

Narrator / Interviewer (52:11)

Thank you so much to each and every survivor and guest for sharing their experiences with us and thank you for listening. Something Was Wrong is a Broken Cycle Media Production created and executively produced by Tiffany Reese. Thank you endlessly to our team Associate Producer Amy B. Chesler, Social Media Marketing Manager Lauren Barkman, Graphic artist Sarah Sloane Stewart and audio engineers Becca High and Stephen Wack, Marissa and Travis at WME AudioBoom and our legal and security partners. Thank you so much to the incredibly talented Abayomi Lewis for this season's gorgeous cover of Glad Rag's original song youg Think youk from their album Wonder Under. Thank you to music producer Janice JP Pacheco for their work on this cover recorded at the Grill Studios in Emeryville, California. Find all artists socials linked in the episode notes to support and hear more. If you'd like to share your story with us, please head to SomethingWasWrong.com if you would like to help support the show, you can subscribe and listen ad free on Apple Podcasts. Purchase a sticker from our sticker shop@broken cyclemedia.com Share the podcast with a loved one or leave us a review. Want to stay up to date with us? Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Something Was Wrong Podcast. As always, thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe. Friends.

Miranda (53:45)

Someone.