Podcast Summary: "Something Was Wrong"

Episode: S21 E19: Searching for Florence Okpealuk and Joseph Balderas with Payne Lindsey of Up and Vanished
Host: Tiffany Reese
Guest: Payne Lindsey, Host of Up and Vanished
Release Date: October 9, 2024
Produced By: Broken Cycle Media | Wondery

Introduction

In this compelling episode of Something Was Wrong, host Tiffany Reese engages in an in-depth conversation with Payne Lindsey, the acclaimed host of the true crime podcast Up and Vanished. Together, they delve into the intricate investigations surrounding the disappearances of Florence Okpealuk and Joseph Balderas, exploring the challenges, breakthroughs, and personal experiences that shape their relentless pursuit for truth and justice.

Journey into True Crime Podcasting

[03:22] Payne Lindsey:
Tiffany opens the discussion by welcoming Payne Lindsey, highlighting his long-standing influence in the true crime podcasting space since 2016. She remarks on his natural storytelling ability and how his narrative style invites listeners to join him intimately on investigative journeys.

Payne Lindsey:
"What I loved about your style of what I classify as like, audio documentaries is that it really brings people alongside you in the journey." ([03:51])

From Music to Investigation: Dr. Chris Mohandi’s Transition

[06:13] Dr. Chris Mohandi:
Dr. Chris Mohandi shares his unconventional path from creating music videos and pursuing a career as a music artist to founding his own company and later pivoting to investigative podcasting. Faced with burnout and financial instability, Mohandi sought a more fulfilling and sustainable career that aligned with his childhood passion for storytelling and true crime.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"I've always been into true crime, like Forensic Files, Unsolved Mysteries. As a casual viewer, that was always my sham, always into suspense stories." ([06:38])

Impact of Up and Vanished on the Tara Grinstead Case

[09:30] Payne Lindsey:
Payne discusses Mohandi’s significant role in the Tara Grinstead case, emphasizing the challenges posed by governmental indifference and lackluster investigations.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"Ryan Duke, who was originally charged with Tara Grinstead's murder, he was found not guilty... the state did pretty much fucking nothing during the five years that they had to build a strong case." ([09:36])

Despite exhaustive efforts, no one has been convicted for Tara Grinstead's murder, highlighting systemic failures within the investigative process.

Navigating Frustration in Cold Cases

[12:07] Payne Lindsey:
The conversation shifts to the frustration inherent in working on cold cases, where extensive evidence and documentation often lead to bureaucratic gatekeeping without tangible progress.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"I honestly just go into every case knowing that... if I'm already there, it's probably because of some version of that." ([12:17])

Mohandi emphasizes the importance of persistence and accepting the limitations posed by the current legal system, while maintaining hope for breakthroughs.

Focus on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women (MMIW)

[14:54] Dr. Chris Mohandi:
Mohandi elaborates on the critical focus of the current season on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women (MMIW), addressing the systemic neglect and lack of media coverage these cases receive.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"MMIW, missing and murdered indigenous women, it's been a problem for years, and it's been largely under the radar." ([14:54])

By highlighting these cases, Mohandi aims to shift the narrative and bring much-needed attention and resources to these marginalized communities.

Innovative Investigation Techniques and Personal Safety

[21:24] Payne Lindsey:
Payne inquires about the safety measures Dr. Mohandi and his team implement while conducting sensitive investigations, particularly in small, tight-knit communities like Nome, Alaska.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"We worked on both of these cases for almost a year before we did anything... we were in Nome multiple times, where people didn't really know who we were unless we told them why we were there." ([21:29])

The team adopts covert approaches, such as using cover stories and pseudonyms, to protect their identities and ensure personal safety during their investigations.

Critical Encounter: Catfishing a Suspect

[24:37] Payne Lindsey & Dr. Chris Mohandi:
One of the episode’s most gripping moments involves Mohandi recounting a strategic encounter where he and a teammate, Cooper, catfished a suspect to extract critical information. This encounter not only provided pivotal insights but also underscored the psychological toll and risks involved in such high-stakes investigations.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"It feels like the craziest thing I've ever done, catfish a suspect in a murder case." ([25:21])
"He brought up Gnome on his own within the first five minutes... That moment I will never forget." ([28:42])

The successful engagement with the suspect led to revelations that further complicated the investigation, demonstrating the unpredictable nature of true crime journalism.

Challenges with Law Enforcement and Resource Limitations

[13:02] Payne Lindsey:
Payne addresses the recurring theme of law enforcement agencies citing a lack of resources as a barrier to thoroughly investigating cases.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"It's such a vague thing to say, like lack of resources. What do you mean? Like, what do you need to get paid more to have more officers." ([13:21])

Mohandi critiques the systemic issues that hinder effective case resolution, suggesting that genuine commitment and proactive efforts from law enforcement are necessary to overcome these hurdles.

Public Interaction and Misinformation

[42:27] Payne Lindsey:
The discussion moves to the influx of information from the public, including misleading claims and potential misinformation, which complicates the investigative process.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"To get to any truth or fact, you're going to go through a lot of bullshit." ([43:02])

The team employs rigorous fact-checking and cross-referencing to discern credible information from false leads, emphasizing the importance of accuracy in their investigative reporting.

Privacy Concerns and Surveillance

[45:24] Payne Lindsey:
A concerning development arises when Mohandi reveals that his flight details to Nome were potentially monitored by someone, raising alarms about surveillance and privacy breaches.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"Multiple people had looked up to see if I was coming... Someone who works at the airport and/or airlines who has access to that." ([49:28])

The revelation highlights the risks investigators face, including unauthorized surveillance, and underscores the need for privacy protections, especially in small communities.

Support and Validation for Families

[51:14] Payne Lindsey:
Payne reflects on the emotional support and validation that the podcast provides to the families of missing persons, fostering a sense of camaraderie and collective effort in seeking answers.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"That validation is also something that's helpful in just moving forward in some way and not being alone on an island." ([51:56])

The mutual support between investigators and families enhances the investigation's depth and reinforces the importance of community involvement.

Common Misconceptions About Missing Persons Cases

[53:30] Dr. Chris Mohandi:
Addressing public perceptions, Mohandi contends that the most prevalent misconception is equating missing persons with being deceased, whereas many cases, especially older ones, likely involve unresolved homicides.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"A majority of year old unsolved missing persons cases, they're basically just unsolved homicides without a body." ([54:04])

This perspective aims to shift the narrative towards a more serious consideration of missing persons cases, advocating for thorough investigations regardless of the time elapsed.

Personal Misconceptions and Public Perception

[54:44] Dr. Chris Mohandi:
Mohandi discusses the misunderstandings he faces regarding his objectivity, as his first-person narrative style sometimes leads listeners to misconstrue his intentions.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"I get a lot of people saying shit like, he's always making it about himself... I'm really this sort of silly, goofy, laid back dude 90% of the time." ([54:44])

He emphasizes the importance of maintaining an objective stance to ensure the integrity of the investigation and the trust of his audience.

Closing Thoughts and Future Directions

[50:34] Dr. Chris Mohandi:
As the episode concludes, Mohandi outlines the forthcoming episodes, promising deeper dives into both Florence and Joseph's cases and unveiling new evidence and perspectives that could potentially lead to breakthroughs.

Dr. Chris Mohandi:
"We have episode 16 coming out this week, and then episode 17 next week. Then we're taking another small break and we're going to come back in conclusion with eight more episodes." ([50:34])

Payne expresses admiration for Mohandi’s dedication and the podcast’s sensitivity, encouraging listeners to support the ongoing investigations.

Conclusion

This episode of Something Was Wrong offers a profound exploration of the complexities involved in investigating cold cases, particularly those of Indigenous women. Through candid discussions, real-life investigative tactics, and personal anecdotes, Tiffany Reese and Payne Lindsey shed light on the persistent challenges and unwavering commitment required to seek justice for the missing. Listeners are left with a deeper understanding of the systemic issues plaguing true crime investigations and the critical role of dedicated individuals striving to bridge the gaps.

Notable Quotes:

• Payne Lindsey ([03:51]):
  "You break it down in a way that's just really approachable. And I think that it makes even the most brand new person to these sorts of investigations feel like they might be able to help in some way."

• Dr. Chris Mohandi ([06:38]):
  "I've always been into true crime, like Forensic Files, Unsolved Mysteries. As a casual viewer, that was always my sham, always into suspense stories."

• Dr. Chris Mohandi ([09:36]):
  "Ryan Duke, who was originally charged with Tara Grinstead's murder, he was found not guilty because the state did pretty much fucking nothing during the five years that they had to build a strong case."

• Dr. Chris Mohandi ([14:54]):
  "MMIW, missing and murdered indigenous women, it's been a problem for years, and it's been largely under the radar."

• Dr. Chris Mohandi ([25:21]):
  "It feels like the craziest thing I've ever done, catfish a suspect in a murder case."

This episode is a testament to the power of podcasting in unraveling complex true crime cases and highlights the indispensable collaboration between journalists and dedicated investigators in pursuing justice.