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S24 Ep13: How Profoundly Sorry I Am - Something Was Wrong | Wave AI Podcast Notes

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S24 Ep13: How Profoundly Sorry I Am

Something Was Wrong

Thu Sep 18 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: Something Was Wrong
Episode: S24 Ep13: How Profoundly Sorry I Am
Host: Tiffany Reiss (Broken Cycle Media)
Date: September 18, 2025

Main Theme

This deeply personal episode explores the experience of Shannon, a mother who sent her daughter Kaylyn to the Academy at Ivy Ridge—a for-profit behavior modification center for struggling teens. Shannon recounts her family's ordeal: the desperation that led to this decision, the manipulation and financial pressures exerted by the program, and the devastating aftermath. Through vivid recollection and searing regret, Shannon unpacks how entire families were drawn into the program’s web, the impact of its coercive tactics, and the long-term trauma left in its wake.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Background on the Academy at Ivy Ridge and WASP Network

Ivy Ridge operated from 2001 until 2009 in Ogdensburg, NY, as part of the Worldwide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WASP), a network later scrutinized for persistent allegations of abuse.
The program marketed itself as a therapeutic boarding school but was embroiled in lawsuits for fraud regarding unaccredited diplomas and allegations of severe mistreatment.
Congressional hearings revealed widespread abuses in similar programs nationwide ([09:06]).

2. Shannon’s Family: Desperation and Search for Help

Shannon describes her daughter Kaylyn as a fearless, free spirit whose rebellion culminated in two overdoses by age 13 ([12:56]).
The family’s frantic search for answers (school and community counselors, priests, even Dr. Phil)—ends with a late-night online search yielding Ivy Ridge.
The high cost ($40,000+/year) was presented as the only hope to “save” Kaylyn ([15:53-15:56]).

“We can always make more money, but we can’t make another Kaylyn.” – Shannon ([16:27])

3. Enrollment and Early Experience at Ivy Ridge

Shannon recounts a polished sales pitch featuring a “success story” student (“That’s what sold it for us.” – [17:53]).
Key manipulations:
- The program restricted parent-child goodbyes upon entry ([19:58])
- Parent participation in costly, mandatory seminars, reinforced by peer pressure and emotional vulnerability ([21:46-23:24])

“They are the source of saving my child, so I didn’t question it.” – Shannon ([20:50])

4. The Seminar System: Escalating Commitment and Shame

Seminars fostered a cult-like camaraderie and hierarchy among parents, bred dependency, and subtly blamed parents for their children’s issues ([26:21-27:17]).
The “plus 5/minus 5” system (“Do whatever it takes”) measured parental commitment and coerced further investment ([29:16-29:20]).
Social pressure and shame were used to spur both financial (seminar fees, travel) and emotional devotion.

“There would be shame if I couldn’t +5, do what it takes. There’s shame in being a +1.” – Shannon ([29:48])

5. Program Structure and Family Repercussions

Parent-child contact was strictly controlled; early communication restricted, progress measured by “levels” ([21:39], [38:12]).
For in-person visits, both child performance and parent seminar attendance were prerequisites—another lever of control ([41:44]).
The entire family was affected: Kaylyn’s twin sister Christina also began to struggle; Shannon briefly considered enrolling her too ([47:34]).

6. Loss of Faith, Program Exit, and Shunning

Over time, Shannon noted inconsistencies (changing staff, evasive communication) and other “red flags” ([47:34-50:00]).
On removing Kaylyn from Ivy Ridge, Shannon and her husband were abruptly cut off from the community—calls ignored, digital access revoked.
Discovery of Kaylyn’s suffering (through files left at the campus and shared after her death) revealed the true pain the program inflicted.

“Kaylyn did not tell me about being put into the isolation room… So much of it was the pain that she was really in, that she just wanted to come home.” – Shannon ([55:28])

7. Aftermath, Grief, and Healing

Kaylyn passed away in 2017, an event with unresolved questions. Christina died of an overdose in 2022.
Shannon describes her ongoing grief and guilt, and the transformative solace she finds in caring for a horse she believes connects her to Kaylyn ([60:32-62:30]).
Professionally, she has become a therapist, now committed to helping other families and advocating against such institutions.

“My way of surviving the depths of loss of my girls is to be of service for those who still have breath in them, who still are trying to find ways to heal.” – Shannon ([63:31])

8. Advice to Parents Struggling with Similar Guilt

Shannon urges acknowledgment of mistakes, openness to dialogue, and compassion in working through guilt and shame.

“If I was a staffer at your seminar bullying you to be a plus five, I was a cog in that wheel… I now know it was wrong.” – Shannon ([65:59])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“We weren’t going to let money be the reason our child didn’t live. We had no other options left.” – Shannon ([16:12])
“How am I questioning a program that is all I have left to save my child, where I have evidence of parents whose children have been saved?” – Shannon ([36:44])
“I don’t have nor will I ever have the opportunity to apologize and to tell her that we were wrong… That’s much of what drives me to share this experience.” – Shannon ([57:13])
“Their parents, whether knowingly or unknowingly, put their children in the lives of strangers. That was wrong.” – Shannon ([64:37])
“My hope is that those beautiful, lovely humans who experienced such devastation are given the opportunity to heal. …They all get to hear from someone that they didn’t deserve to suffer the way that they suffered…” – Shannon ([64:57])

Important Segment Timestamps

[09:06] — History of Ivy Ridge and WASP network
[12:56] — Shannon introduces her family, begins personal narrative
[15:53] — Program cost discussion
[17:53] — Manipulative sales pitch, “success story” student
[19:58] — Dropping Kaylyn off, first exposure to program control
[21:46] — Restriction of parent-child communication, seminar obligations
[26:21] — Seminar indoctrination, introduction of value system
[29:16] — Explaining “plus 5/minus 5” system and peer pressure
[38:12] — Communication with Kaylyn while enrolled, family rep system
[41:44] — First permitted family visit after seven months
[47:34] — Rising doubts, decision to withdraw Kaylyn, being shunned
[54:56] — Discovering Kaylyn’s suffering from posthumous files
[57:13] — Guilt and lack of closure (“profoundly sorry”)
[60:32] — Healing through horses, new path in life as a therapist
[65:17] — Advice for other parents

Tone and Language

Shannon’s storytelling is open-hearted, vulnerable, and marked by intense regret but also a fierce commitment to truth-telling. Tiffany, the host, responds with empathy and affirmation.

Conclusion

This episode is a raw, crucial testimony about the ways high-control, unregulated institutions manipulate desperate families—and the enduring scars these experiences leave. Through her painful honesty, Shannon hopes to honor the memory of her daughters and validate the suffering of other survivors and parents. The episode urges compassion, vigilance, and reform—within families and across systems that claim to heal but often cause profound harm.

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Transcript

Tiffany Reiss (0:00)

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Shannon (0:12)

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Tiffany Reiss (0:21)

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Shannon (0:26)

For by the U.S. department of Health.

Tiffany Reiss (0:28)

And Human Services this is the story of the One as head of maintenance at a concert hall, he knows the show must always go on. That's why he works behind the scenes, ensuring every light is working, the H Vac is humming, and his facility shines with Grainger's supplies and solutions for every challenge he faces. Plus 24. 7 customer support. His venue never misses a beat. Call quickgranger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences and discusses upsetting topics. Season 24 survivors discuss violence that they endured as children, which may be triggering for some listeners. As always, please consume with care. For a full content, warning sources and resources for each episode, please visit the Episode Notes Opinions shared by the guests of the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Broken Cycle Media. All persons are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Responses to allegations from individual institutions are included within the season. Something Was Wrong and any linked materials should not be misconstrued as a substitution for legal or medical advice. In the next chapter of this season, we'll hear from survivors of the Academy at Ivy Ridge. The Academy at Ivy Ridge operated as a privately owned, for profit behavior modification center for adolescents. Marketed to parents as a boarding school for teens struggling with behavioral issues, the program, Located in Ogdensburg, New York Opened in 2001 and was co owned in a business partnership between the Jason G. Finlanson Corporation and the Joseph and Alan Mitchell Corporation. Across the Academy's eight years of operation, student recruitment was driven by various Internet promotions, referrals from parents, and outreach efforts by marketing companies such as Teen Help. Ivy Ridge was initially affiliated with the Worldwide association of Specialty Programs and Schools, also known as wasp. WASP was a for profit network that provided an operational model and participant referrals for private behavior modification and therapeutic boarding schools across the US as well as Mexico, Jamaica, Costa Rica, Samoa and other locations. The association was founded by Utah businessman Robert Litchfield. His brother Narvin was also a part of WASP's leadership team. With involvement in multiple affiliated programs over the years, WASP came under scrutiny for allegations of physical, psychological and sexual abuse of children in its programs, according to a 2003 Louisiana Times article. When asked about his success and about the criticism surrounding the network of schools he created, Robert Litchfield makes reference to his fervent Mormon faith. God is the key to his accomplishments, he says, and Satan is stirring up his foes. Ivy Ridge was a part of the WASP network until around 2005. In May 2005, male residents at Ivy Ridge staged a student riot to draw attention to the abuses occurring at the facility, prompting intervention by state police and other law enforcement. The incident resulted in the arrests of 12 students and one staff member, as well as dozens of expulsions. Then, after a months long probe, the New York Attorney General, Elliot Spitzer, reported that Ivy Ridge had misrepresented itself as an accredited school when it was not authorized in New York to issue diplomas. Under a settlement, Ivy Ridge agreed to stop issuing diplomas advertising itself as diploma granting, notify all families that it was not registered or authorized, make partial tuition refunds to graduates, and pay a civil penalty. By December 2006, the New York State Education Department formally informed the institution that it was not legally recognized as a school. The New York State Education Department's 2006 letter, which was later published in 2024, flagged health and safety deficiencies at Ivy Ridge alongside academic concerns. The letter also highlights the issue of inadequate staff training in relation to to student restraint practices. Legal action also ensued. Families began to file lawsuits such as Dungan versus Academy at Ivy Ridge, challenging Ivy Ridge's claims regarding diplomas, accreditation, and program standards. Dungan versus The Academy at Ivy Ridge was a large civil case in which plaintiffs, including parents and guardians whose children attended the Academy at Ivy Ridge and students who received high school diplomas or credits through Ivy Ridge. The lawsuit alleged racketeering, fraud or fraud in the inducement, deceptive practices, unjust enrichment, breach of contract, and more. The allegations centered on false representations about accreditation and diplomas. In 2008, a magistrate judge issued a report and recommendation suggesting partial class certification on certain liability issues in Dungan versus The Academy at Ivy Ridge. The district judge later rejected the recommendation and denied class certification. The U.S. house Committee on Education and labor held a hearing on April 24, 2008, entitled Child Abuse and Deceptive Marketing by Residential Programs for Teens, end quote. The hearing included testimony from former program participants and medical experts, and it examined cases of abuse and neglect in private residential programs. This hearing also elaborated on the ways in which these programs market themselves to parents. The congressional hearings documented patterns such as prolonged restraints, seclusion or discipline rooms, and sexual physical abuse across the sector that included many WASP linked facilities. The hearings also called for systemic regulatory and operational change. In March 2009, facing declining enrollment and mounting criticism, the program's director announced that Ivy Ridge would temporarily close for the fall semester to undergo restructuring. Ivy Ridge then reportedly went from around 500 to 60 students enrolled in its program, who were then either sent home or transferred to other programs. Within a matter of weeks, the property was sold for several million dollars to a Delaware corporation and the facility's operations officially closed. By 2010, WASP issued a statement reporting that the organization was no longer in business. However, at that time it had not been formally dissolved because of ongoing litigation. In the years following, the public remained largely uninformed until the Release of the 2024 Netflix documentary series the Cons, Cults and Kidnapping. In the docuseries, Ivy Ridge survivors, including Survivor and director Kathryn Kubler, return to the abandoned campus where they dig into a trove of left behind files and revisit the devastating realities they endured while enrolled there. The program has been praised for its bravery, impact and advocacy and was an instrumental resource for us during our research for this season. In response, WASP founder Robert Litchfield wrote a 2024 letter to the editor published by the St. George News. In it, Robert Litchfield states, I usually don't respond to former students comments as these students usually suffer from a history of severe problems and often mental illness. But with such vicious attacks, I must respond. While I have not owned, operated or worked as a staff at a program for 30 years, if there was systemic or widespread abuse at the programs, there would have been concerns from the many monitors and systems in place to safeguard it further, students while enrolled went to see independent doctors, psychiatrists or psychologists. To think that all of these outside professionals again hid or supported any abuse or mistreatment is not rational. Additionally, the programs were often closely overseen by competent licensing people who actively investigated things. Most important, the programs had parents between family visits and seminars on the facility almost every day and had unmonitored talks with their child. Parents were always especially interested in sharing any concerns. Lastly, every student went on an off grounds visit, home visit, or when they left the program for good, they simply could have called child protective or law enforcement and made a complaint. Where are then such complaints? Complaints to law enforcement, of course, would have needed specifics that could be verified. Not the it didn't happen to me, but I heard it happen to others. That is so prevalent in complaints made in media and online. So Instead of credible evidence from credible persons, nurses, teachers, therapists or law enforcement, Katherine Kubler gives viewers what she openly admits as a revenge project. End quote. By March 13, 2024, the St. Lawrence County District Attorney had announced a new investigation into allegations regarding the Academy at Ivy Ridge, encouraging former students to come forward with any information. At the time of this episode's release, no public resolution of the investigation has been reported. On April 27, 2024, former Ivy Ridge students and families traveled across the country to gather outside the Ogdensburg City hall to protest the abuse they experienced. The Survivors rally aimed to raise awareness and advocate for institutional reforms to prevent child abuse in similar programs. In this episode, we'll hear from Shannon, a parent who sent her daughter Kaylin to the Academy at ivy Ridge from March 2006 to August 2007. Shannon shares valuable insights regarding the manipulation tactics I Ivy Ridge allegedly used to lure parents in and keep them paying. It's eye opening to hear how the impact of programs like Ivy Ridge extended to entire families. Parents especially were often pressured into heartbreaking and costly decisions. I'm Tiffany Reiss and this is Something was Wrong.

Shannon (12:56)

I am Shannon. I am Kaylyn's mom and I wanted to share a little bit about my personal experience at Ivy Ridge. Kaelin and her twin sister Christina. I often refer to them as caged lions. They were the kids who wanted to jump off the highest thing and fearless. There's a picture that I have of her where she is wearing tie dye head to toe, really cool 70s sunglasses and she's riding a skateboard down a road pointing back at the camera. That was Kaelin. Free spirit, full of life. Kaelyn has been a constant joy even with the struggles that she's had. She was the kid who didn't want to sit quietly and follow all the basic boring normal rules. She wanted to go outside and play and dance and be with her friends. Over the years, her rebelliousness often got her into some trouble. It all came to a head in 2005 when Kaylyn overdosed in middle school. She was 13. Of course my husband and I were devastated. She was rushed to the hospital and thankfully she was okay. We were shocked. We found out Kaylyn and other kids her age were doing this thing called skittleing where they would swipe pills from parents medicine cabinets, put them in a bowl and scoop up a handful and take them. We still just can't imagine that kids would just such reckless things, but if we can remember that they're kids, they're not wired to think of all of the consequences of their actions. And that certainly was Kaylyn. I don't think for me at the time I could even make sense of it. I was in life or death mode. This is gonna kill my kid. How am I gonna save her? And that became the theme for the next few years. I spoke to the school counselor, who referred me to a community counselor. I spoke to the pediatrician. We even took her to our parish priest. I emailed Dr. Phil for 100 days straight. Anybody that we thought outside of us, who can get through to this kid. I really did believe that there was someone out there, some answer. It just became so tumultuous. Every day was, what's going to happen? I started getting online, looking for resources, and I came across help your teen or something like that, Clicked the link, called the number, and spoke to a wonderful person who was acknowledging how hard this was and just how desperate we had to be that this really was life or death. When they told us how much it was going to cost, I said, there's no way that we can afford the enormous amount of money required to help our child.

Shannon (15:56)

It was more than that. I spoke to one person who then became my contact. And I was able to get in touch with her repeatedly and update her. In February, Kaylyn overdosed again. I remember sitting in the hospital room with my husband and saying, nothing else has saved this kid. We're going to have to figure out a way to get her into this program. We can always make more money, but we can't make another Kaylyn. And he agreed and started the process, which was intense and scary for me. It was almost moving too fast. We can have somebody come and pick her up so you don't have to drive all the way up there. And I was like, no, no, no, that's not an option for me. She can't be taken by strangers. I just dismissed that immediately. And I said, I'm not going to put my child into a program unless I see it myself. So sometime In February of 2006, my husband and I drove 81 north to Canada, make a right to get to Ogdensburg. And we arrived early the next morning at Ivy Ridge. It was well kept. The people whom we interacted with were lovely. They were kind. They were acknowledging of all of the pain that we were in. It was a horseshoe driveway, two sets of double doors. Hindsight, why were the doors locked? Didn't even hit my radar. But we went through the first set of double doors. And so we were in like a vestibule between another set of double doors, and those were locked. The lady at the front window said, oh, Jason will be right with you. He's the director of the program. Shortly after, he came in, greeted us, escorted us right down the hallway into this beautifully decorated room with overstuffed fancy furniture and beautiful paintings and cherry wood all around. He listened to what we were struggling with, and he acknowledged that this really is life or death. They did say they were going to help us keep Kahlan alive. They were going to work with us to help Kaylan get back on track. Something very significant happened in that very first meeting. Jason brought a student in and she was delightful. She was smiling, charismatic, very respectful, well spoken, and she was an upper level student at this program. What was so poignant for us was she shared what got her to Ivy Ridge, and the choices that she made were similar to Kaelin's. Her parents were also desperate, and they made the choice to put her in a place that could save her life. She was getting ready to graduate and she was talking about going on to college and that she and her parents had a wonderful relationship and she could give me her parents number if I wanted because they would be wonderful resources for us. And I just remember the hope that I had meeting that young girl. Jason had escorted her out, and it was just my husband and I sitting in this beautiful room. And I said to him, do you think that could be Kaylin one day now? We had a beautiful, living, breathing example of thriving after such horrific experiences. That's what sold it for us. We did ask to see the dorms and the rooms where they would be in school and learning. We were told that for privacy concerns, we can't let outsiders see. And for privacy concerns, when we were exiting that fancy room and we're going towards the hallway, a line of students happened to walk by. And they were all dressed in these school uniforms that were clean and crisp, and they had vests and they had little tie that buckled underneath their collar, and they had knee socks and nice clean shoes. They were orderly, they were quiet. And I was like, these are the kids that were having such troubles. Look how respectful they are. I had no idea what was happening behind the scenes. It was finally a possibility of hope because we had felt hopeless for quite some time. When we got into the nitty gritty of how we were going to afford this, they had all the answers. Try to get a loan, Ask a family member. You can always get a second mortgage. We weren't going to let money be the reason our child didn't live. We had no other options left. This was it. We wanted to tell Kaylyn, this is what we're choosing. This is the website. Here's the pictures. And there were pictures from a summer fun day on Lake Ogdensburg, and the kids were having a blast. The school classroom where the kids were dutifully working on their computers. We got the list of all the things that she had to bring. We went shopping. She picked out a new comforter. She was excited to go, and we were relieved that she was willing to go. We went, took her. The next day, very early in the morning, went through the first set of double doors, myself, my husband, and Kaylin. With her bags, we began to, you know, sign forms. Two staff members opened that second set of double doors, escorted Kaylin and all of her belongings, and locked the door behind them. I didn't realize what was even happening until it had already happened. I turned around and said, wait, wait. We want to say goodbye. And the person at the front desk said, you know, it's actually better for the kids to become immersed in the program. And that just didn't sit well. But again, they are the source of saving my child. So I didn't question it.

Shannon (26:21)

We were taught so much about parenting differently. We ate it up. We were then surrounded by parents whose children were further up in levels. The parents who staffed each seminar would come up to the front of the room and tell great stories about how far they had come, about how desperate they were before they got their kid into a program. And it wasn't just Ivy Ridge. We found out later there were lots of different schools all over the country, which for us, validated. This is the key to saving teenagers. We believed it all. I never learned any of this stuff. I don't recall my parents ever sitting us down and talking about boundaries and coming up with our own family values. We were instructed to go home and have a family values meeting. Rules are negotiable, but values are not. And these values helped us parent better. You can change a rule, you could change the bedtime. But we're always going to be people who commit to these values. Ours. I can still remember them. Faith, family, fun, education and health. They were rooted in emotion. It was about getting out of your comfort zone, sharing vulnerabilities, talking about how much we failed at parenting these teens. One of the first days of the first seminars, one of the seminar leaders was saying something like, these teenagers didn't get there just because they're bad kids. You guys were bad parents. And I remember leaning over to my husband saying, this guy doesn't know me. He doesn't know everything that I did to try to save this kid. But the further we went into them, the further we realized that we really did help contribute to a lot of the problems that Kaylin was having. We weren't consistent with her. We weren't really firm with boundaries. We were allowing her to badger us into giving in. There were lots of things that we could improve on. And then we would have the examples of parents who had already improved on them and their kids are getting up in the levels and getting ready to graduate. So for me, it was like, this is still the answer. We still have work to do. If we didn't do all of our seminars and keep our commitment to keep her in the program, we were risking her life. That weighed heavy on us because we already almost lost her two times. You attend the seminar and complete your six or eight weeks homework and then go to the next seminar. You can go back and staff that first seminar. I was a believer of the program. I was witnessing parents who were modeling for me, keep going, do what it takes. And the messages that were being sent to us about our program was called the Plus 5 minus 5 commitment scale.

Shannon (29:20)

Yep. D W I T Do what it takes. Plus 5 commitment became a theme when we would communicate with Kaylin. We're at a plus five. We just finished the seminar. We're going on to the next. It really was a measure of the what parents were willing to do to get their kids to graduate. I was looking through my seminar notebook and that was like the holy grail. Every parent had their own binder. So much evidence for us of how we were committed to +5. The thicker your binder was, the more seminars you've attended. The last day of the seminar, the facilitator begins to hype up the next seminar telling us about all the benefits of going +5. Are you going to be the parents who are going to do whatever it takes to keep your kid alive in the program? And then they would have staffers share little snippets about the wonderful experience they had in that next seminar. And it would just further imprint on we got to go to the next one. And the facilitator then would challenge us to stand up and make our Plus 5 commitment declaration that that we're going to attend the next seminar. Staffers would come around with a sheet, they'd take our credit card information, sign us up, and then we're ready to go to the next one. There would be shame if I couldn't +5 do what it takes. There's shame in being a +1. For example, somebody could be called out in a feedback group. You know, I notice you always sit in the back of the room versus a parent who's always in the front row. There's a distinction between plus five and plus one. So you're compliant, you're there, but are you a plus five? I am not at all defending parents choices to go to these seminars, but this was the answer to keeping my child alive. I don't want to entirely speak for my husband, but that was his belief as well. So anytime I was given feedback of like I'm at a plus four or plus three, I was like, I got any more. What else can I do in a seminar? We talked about and explored how both my husband and I were raised and about factors that could have contributed. One that stuck out for me was alcoholism. My husband is not the biological father of my girls. He adopted them when they were five, and he has been their dad throughout all of this. Kaylin's biological father was an alcoholic and he was addicted to drugs. I didn't have alcoholism in my biological family, but it became apparent that this could be a hereditary issue for Kaylyn, which just made me feel worse. Why couldn't I catch this? It was really magnified for me that my lack of knowledge and skill contributed to why Kaylin was the way she was. That was really heavy and really hard to carry. But that's okay because right now we can do this and we can learn these skills. One of the outings that were given to us as a homework assignment was to go to a smoke shop and find out about different types of smoking. It was fascinating to my husband and I. We were shown how kids hide drugs in what looks like a Coke can, but the bottom unscrews and they could hide their drugs in there or false bottoms to books or things like that. It reinforced for me all that I didn't know about addiction and that I wasn't equipped to help Kaylin navigate all of this. It was really hard. Once you've completed a seminar, then you can go back and staff. In seminars, everything is structured. There is the lead facilitator, then there is a person who is appointed the captain. The captain is the person who then manages the rest of the staff. And there are door greeters. There are people assigned to music. There is a person or two assigned to chairs to make sure that every time the participants went back into the room, the chairs were configured in a way that was the setup for the next emotional sequence that was going to happen. There was a woman who was the captain. She's like the facilitator's right hand person. This captain was so well spoken, confident, charismatic and clear that we were in the right place. I remember vividly leaning over my husband and said, I want to be like that lady. I want to be so confident and know that this is the right thing. I want to be able to stand up there and say that. And eventually I did. There was almost a badge of honor to be able to go through these ranks. It wasn't that the schools were funding us to staff these seminars. You were a volunteer staff. You paid for your own hotel. All the staff would get together and make potluck meals. It was our way of giving back the way that other parents gave to us when we first arrived. It was also a connection to see what's possible for your child. I stood up in front of the room as a staff member and was proudly toting my badge of honor for all of the seminars that I had attended and staffed all of the work that Kaylin was doing. I'm ashamed, truly shamed to admit that I became a staffer. Looking back at some of Kaylyn's letters and recalling things from the documentary, the upper level students were challenged to bully the lower levels to stay in the program. So we were doing the same thing. We were bullying the new people to do whatever it took to get to graduation. It's absolutely maddening to me. I bought into it. My kid was alive, My kid was writing letters of hope and possibility. That same kid who almost died twice. I really believed that this program was saving my child's life. And any contribution I could have to helping parents save their kids lives, I'm in.

Shannon (35:41)

Yes. We were both fully committed. We attended and graduated every seminar offered outside of the seminars. We were given small groups to have weekly conference calls with. So we were each in our own small group. We were each given weekly assignments. We would call in a conference number. He would be in one room on his call and I would be in another room on my call doing the Plus 5, showing up every week. We were both fully in it, fully duped. We both were doing whatever we could to show Kaylin that we were never going to give up on her. And what that also meant was do whatever you can to get to graduation. And in order to get to graduation, you've got to get through all of the levels. There's a Get Real letter that we're all challenged to do in a seminar. In this Get Real letter, we are to declare we're going to keep going to these seminars, keep doing our homework and our conference calls. And it's up to the teen now to do what it takes on their end. Because we're holding up our end. Some parents have said that was a turning point for them. Having written it all down and made that declaration, it really solidified for them. They're going to do what it takes. But how did it impact these teens to then get this letter? You're there to graduation and it's not like it was. You're there for 30 more days, 60 more days, 90 more days. You're there until you get to that top level and then reach graduation. How am I questioning a program that is all I have left to save my child, where I have evidence of parents whose children have been saved. I've learned a different way of parenting that is intentional clear, that's not wrapped in chaos. How can I speak ill of this program? And it really became an internal struggle for me that I've got to just keep working my program and let Kaylyn work hers. There was a point where they were concerned because Kaylin was developing a romantic relationship with another student. They encouraged me to put Kaylin in therapy. Okay, sign her up, contacted my insurance company, make sure that I can have all of her therapy covered. And Bob at the Blue Cross became my lifeline to make sure that every session was covered.

Shannon (38:12)

That was one of the, you know, famous unanswered questions. I don't recall any 9 months, 12 months, 15 months? But what I do recall are parents who would proudly say, we're in here for 23 months and they're back to level one, but we're gonna keep working our program. I would even find that admirable. Wow, these parents are going to do it for as long as it takes to keep their child alive. That's what we're going to do, too. There were different points where I would ask, what are you doing differently that your child is already at level four. I became hyper focused on aligning myself and doing whatever the parents were doing where their kids were closer to graduation. It may sound maybe to others, that I was the Pollyanna. I just blindly bought into everything, but I didn't. I challenged the frequency of turnover with the dorm parents. There were dorm parents and there were family reps. Kaelin had a family rep, one adult who was our primary communicator. We would get a weekly email. I would drive into work early so that I could get my email and print it out and savor every word that Kaylin had written. I would bring it home, and my husband and I would type up a response. It was our lifeline to Kaylin's progress and setbacks. There were several months where Kaylin wasn't advancing any levels, and I would channel like, you guys are the experts. Often I was redirected to this website called the bbs, where I could vent and question other parents whose kids were at this stuck place at the lower levels. And there were other parents whose kids were further along. Hang in there. Keep going. Keep working your program. You gotta believe in yourself, believe in her being reassured. What I recall are it being Mostly parents. Later, I heard that the schools had fake accounts. I can't speak to that, but what I can speak to is that it was a source of overwhelming support. The first phone call that we got to have with Kaylin was brief. It was the quick, hi. I love you. I love you. I miss you. I miss you. We believe in you. You're doing great. And Kaylyn said something about the food wasn't good or the heat wasn't on or something like that. And immediately, her family rep, who was in the room, ended the phone call. My husband and I were like, what just happened here? And a few minutes later, she called back. And that's when she explained that these kids make up these stories, they tell these lies because they want to try to trick you into bringing her home. And Kaylyn's going to get a consequence for lying. We didn't even consider that she was telling the truth. That's how much we were enthralled with. They must know what they're doing. They're catching her in a lie, and they're gonna have an immediate consequence. We couldn't even keep the consequences at home, but they are. What I was denying Kaelyn, was the opportunity to tell us the truth. That was really challenging. But again, going on to the bbs and talking to other parents, and, oh, my teen did that, too. Oh, the stories they tell. And wait till you hear this one. And they would share these war stories of what kids would say, and the parents would reassure that, well, that can't be happening. They've got to learn that lying isn't going to get them anywhere.

Shannon (41:44)

She had to be a certain level prior to our visit. And we also had to have completed X amount of seminars in order to qualify for that visit. In hindsight, how in the heck did I not get that this was just another way to get parents to spend money to go to these seminars and keep our kids in the program? We finally got to see Kaylin seven months after we took her to Ivy Ridge. And it was for PC1. It's called Parent Child One. I recall vividly, as if it had happened yesterday, that my entire family went. We took my parents, my young son Christina, up to a hotel where we were welcomed with open arms. People in the town were lovely. Everybody was like, you've got a kid at Ivy Ridge. It's a Great place. We got to the school and we were put into the seminar room with other parents. And we were given very specific instructions. They were going to turn the lights down low. We were going to stand in a very large circle, each parent next to another, facing the middle. What we didn't know at the time was the students were then brought into the center of the circle facing out, but they were not allowed to hug us until they were prompted to do so later on finding out that she would have dropped levels and not see us if she hugged us before she was allowed to. That's insane to even imagine now, but that's what happened. We were prompted to remember Kalin as a child filled with love and light and hope and innocence, and then reminded of the things that these teens were doing in order to get themselves here and that acknowledging the parents for doing everything they can because we're doing the hard work to save our children. And the moment that we got to hug her, it was life changing. It was blissfully important to be able to hold our child. And we didn't even want to let go. We didn't get to hug her goodbye the day that we dropped her off and to finally have her in our presence and to know that she had done the work to get herself to this seminar. It was like we were hugging a child who was going to live and was going to eventually thrive. At the end of the seminar, they allowed the extended family as well as the teens to be in the cafeteria for whatever meal it was to see Kaelin and Christina and my younger son crying and hugging on each other. And I thought, we're going to be a family again. Kaelyn was so happy to see Christina that she put Christina on her back and was running around the cafeteria giving her piggybacks. And I just thought, how beautiful is this? Look how silly. And see, this is how they're supposed to be. I found out later that she was dropped a level.

Shannon (47:34)

One of the challenges that we had with Kaelyn was she had reached a point in her program where she was adamant about seeing her biological father. Up until that time, neither of my girls had seen their biological father since they were three and a half, and I was absolutely rigid with saying, no, this is not a good idea. This is not safe for Kaylyn. From for weeks it went back and forth. I would get letters from Kaylyn. I think at one point I had two or three phone calls with her therapist, like, she's not going to progress any further. She's got to meet with her dad. And against my better judgment, I finally said, okay. And that was one of the worst failures that I made as their parent. Kaylin wrote him a letter. I don't know what Kaylin wrote, but I have a letter that he wrote back saying, I'm so glad you reached out. There's more to the story. I want to wait till I could meet both of you. And that seemed to suffice. Kalin for the time we were so hyper focused on Kaylan that we weren't paying attention to what Christina was doing. And she started to get into trouble herself. It became then, well, are you going to bring Christina? Should we put Christina in the school? And it was very challenging for us because we couldn't arrive at a clear decision. One of the things that they encouraged was for Christina to come to Ivy Ridge with Kaylyn. And we just didn't think that was a good idea. We also couldn't figure out another way to afford that. I can recall finding letters later from the school encouraging us, well, if you can't afford it, here's a link to a website where they can help homeowners get additional funding without increasing your monthly payment at the same time. They had a leadership program for teens. So we put Christina on a plane. She went to California for a week, and we thought, okay, that's going to help her. She'll be back on track in no time. And that didn't work. So as the months went on, we were still trying to navigate helping Christina at home with all of these new tools, all of these new ways to parent while we were still encouraging Kaylyn to keep working her program. It was like we were doing what we should have done with Kaelin. We're now doing it with Christina in the way that works because all of these boundaries, these values are going to work. Over the months, it just got harder and harder to navigate all of it with how much money that everything cost, threats to not being able to attend the next seminar because we were behind in the payment. The shame around money was something that was a constant for us. But at the same time, I was starting to notice things falling apart. There were more red flags. We ultimately decided not to put Christina in the program because we were losing faith in the program. It was hard for us because we still knew that Christina needed help. We were getting her outside help. So we were still trying to figure her stuff out, but we just couldn't bring ourselves to put her In a place where we were losing faith. It was a hard decision, but it was necessary. Parents who pulled their kid no longer had access to any of the seminars. They no longer had access to speaking to other parents whose kids were still in the program. It was like you were all the way in, and when you were out, you were all the way out, completely blocked out. It was as if they were frowned upon for giving up. Don't associate yourself with people who didn't have what it took to get to graduation, because those people are going to bring you down. I, early on was like, those parents didn't have what it took. I wish they would have stayed. They were doing so well. I myself declined calls from people because I didn't want to risk my integrity by answering a phone call from someone who didn't continue to put the blood, sweat, and tears in to get to graduation. It still boggles my mind that I didn't have the wherewithal to be like, wait a minute. What's wrong with this? I am truly, deeply ashamed that I didn't get it. There were so many discrepancies that were happening. The family reps were changing. One person would say one thing to me on the phone, and then the next week, someone would say completely different. I was requesting to speak to the program director. He was never available. I was asking to speak to the therapist. They weren't taking phone calls. It just became more and more like something's just not right. And I began to post on the BBS about my concerns. More often than not, those same statements that had kept me believing in the program for so long from parents further along started to become bullshit. I wasn't blocked out until we were absolutely clear that we were taking Kaylyn home. I notified them, let's say, on a Tuesday, that I would be there on a Wednesday. Whatever. My husband and I drove to Ogdensburg, checked into our local hotel, and then went there the next morning. When we got there, someone opened up the first set of double doors. The person at the window said, okay, here's your forms to sign. By the time I turned around, they had brought Kaelyn to the second set of double doors with all of her stuff just jammed into garbage bags, ushered her through, and locked the doors behind them, and off they went. We were dumbfounded. I mean, we were so happy to see her, of course, but we were like, what the hell? I remember going to the hotel that night, and I'm locked out of the BBs. I'm calling the people who were in my group, people in the groups weren't answering me. People that I thought were my friends, my confidants, my heroes, my saviors, gone. Kaylin came home from the program and got herself into some trouble, and she did some things, but she still was fighting the good fight, trying to be her free spirit. What's so interesting is that Kaelin did not blast the program. She would talk about really great people that she met, and she would tell stories of how they would have a secret code of how they would laugh and communicate. And she would tell stories of a girl that she fell in love with and that they kept each other going. It was still for me, saying, see, she did learn things. She does see hope. She does see possibility. But she didn't tell me any of these things that were what really was going on for her for years. I didn't press her on it. I didn't want to take her back to that time. We didn't really talk about it. I think what's important for people to know about our story is that in 2017, Kaelin was living in D.C. she had gotten a job at a restaurant. She had a couple of roommates. She was talking about going into the Peace Corps, and she had just gotten back from a trip to Machu Picchu. She was living her life. In 2017, Kaylin passed away. I still believe that there was foul play. There's questions that I have that are unanswered about that experience.

Shannon (60:32)

Shannon Some days are definitely harder than others. Shortly after Kaylin passed away, a friend of mine messaged me and said, you know, you really should get around horses. I know this lady. You can go to her farm, go pet some horses. I would go there for hours, day after day after, not talk to any people, but just connect with these horses. I really experienced some profound impacts with horses. One night after I was there, I had this dream. I was laying up in the field behind the barn where the horses were kept. I'm looking up, and I could feel the sun on my face. And I hear this rustling sound. And I can't quite make it out because the sun's in my eyes. And then all of a sudden, I could feel the breath of a horse right in front of my face. I could see the red on the horse's mane. And I hear the words, mama, it's me. And I suddenly woke up. I go back to the farm week after week, and the farm owner's daughter said, oh, Shannon, you've got to come and see. We've got two new babies. They came from Arizona. I turned the corner, and that was the horse that was in my dream. I took care of that horse for a year, and then I bought her. Galen had fiery red hair, so I named her Ruby Red. Heaven sent. And the way that I get through every day is I spend time with Ruby Red. I don't talk to people. I just hang out at the farm. Sometimes I write or sometimes I don't. But for me, it's what I believe is a connection to Kaylin. I during COVID went back to school. I got my master's in marriage and family. Therapy. I'm now a therapist. I help families in crisis. I worked for an organization in Florida for a few years where I would help families with teens out of control. I still believe that there are ways to help our teens, but it's not with a program like this that locks them up and demands that they walk in the single file line and don't break your eyes with the head that's in front of you. I'm working on opening a branch of my company to do equine assisted therapy because I truly believe in the power of horses. My way of surviving the depths of loss of my girls is to be of service for those who still have breath in them, who still are trying to find ways to heal. That's how I get up every day. I don't know if I can ever really come to terms with that same program that I did learn so much from and have helped myself and others be the exact same source of such devastation and for many, death. It just doesn't make sense. My hope is that I'm not misheard as saying that I give support for any of these residential facilities, because I do not. But what I believe is that somewhere there can be some possibility of helping families in a healthy way that does not include berating and shaming and bullying, but to help them work through these very hard things that life has. I won't ever have the opportunity to hear Kaylin tell me her whole truth. That's for me. What has been this ongoing pain that there are other survivors who no longer have their voice. I honor and value and validate each survivor's experience who still does have a voice. My continued hope is that these survivors will speak on behalf of many who aren't ready to talk about it. My hope is that those beautiful, lovely humans who experienced such devastation are given the opportunity to heal, whether that includes their parents or not. They all get to hear from someone that they didn't deserve to suffer the way that they suffered and that they're not bad people and there's nothing flawed about them. Their parents, whether knowingly or unknowingly, put their children in the lives of strangers. That was wrong.