Loading summary
Transcript90 lines
- [00:00]
Rocket Money Advertiser
Think about the last time you had to cancel a subscription. There was probably some waiting on hold, some guessing at your password, some mind numbing small talk, and maybe after all that, you still weren't able to cancel it. Good news, it doesn't have to be this way. Thanks to Rocket Money Rocket Money tracks, manages and can cancel your subscriptions for you. When you connect your account, you'll see a complete picture of all of your recurring subscriptions all in one place. Rocket Money organizes your subscriptions by due date and notifies you when something is coming up, so you'll never be caught off guard when you get charged. If you see a subscription you want to cancel, Rocket Money simplifies the process. Instead of waiting on hold for an hour, you can cancel it right from the app. Rocket Money will even try to get you a refund for the money you spent on subscriptions you forgot about. Stop wasting time trying to cancel subscriptions the hard way. Make your life easier and go to RocketMoney.com cancel. That's RocketMoney.com cancel or download the app from the Apple app or Google Play stores.
- [01:01]
Credit Card Advertiser
There's nothing like my American Express Platinum card. I love that I can earn hotel credits when I travel. I can also earn resi credits so you know I'm hitting the restaurants everyone's talking about. Plus with the digital entertainment credit, I'm even more excited to catch my favorite shows. All in all, I can access over $3,500 in annual value with benefits and eligible purchases across travel, entertainment and more. Learn more@americanexpress. Dot enrollment requirements monthly and other limits in terms Apply.
- [01:52]
Host
Hi friends. I'm excited to bring another Case and Community Updates episode to your feed. I'm very excited to be joined by Amy B. Chesler, who is an associate producer on Something Was Wrong, the host of our other podcast, what Came Next, as well as Season seven Survivor, and Lauren Barkman, who is our Social Media manager. You may recognize her from season 20 as well. Thank you guys so much for joining us again and being willing to do this.
- [02:24]
Amy B. Chesler
Super excited to be here. Thank you as always for having me.
- [02:28]
Host
And Lauren, I know you're a little sick.
- [02:29]
Lauren Barkman
Yeah, I'm hanging in there.
- [02:31]
Host
We appreciate you being here.
- [02:33]
Lauren Barkman
Thanks for having me.
- [02:35]
Host
Of course. I'd love to hear from you guys. How is your Thanksgiving? What's new with you guys?
- [02:40]
Amy B. Chesler
It's just a busy time of year. In light of the impending holiday season, I think I'm filled with immense gratitude for the ability to be here, for the ability to do the work that we do. And for the ability to be part of this small but mighty team, we're always working. I mean like what's going on is just like work and seasons, incredible interviews and survivors and the event and just an overwhelming sense of gratitude. I have a lot of exciting things behind the scenes going on that I'll be able to announce in the new year, so. And my 41st birthday is coming up, so I feel excited about that. I didn't really feel like celebrating my birthday last year when I turned 40 with the loss of my aunt. I think grief was my emotion that year. So this year is gratefulness and you guys are a large part of that.
- [03:27]
Lauren Barkman
I couldn't agree more. I feel like this team is just absolutely incredible in so many ways. Gratefulness is just the reoccurring word right now because it's all hit me at once just how amazing it all is.
- [03:40]
Host
Your business is growing, you're getting new clients, you're really thriving. I feel like this year, yeah, it's.
- [03:46]
Lauren Barkman
Definitely been a busy couple months, but I'm taking in all of the holiday festiveness and we just put up our tree today, so that was fun.
- [03:54]
Host
Oh my goodness. What kind of tree? Is it a real tree or do you guys do a fake tree or like what's going on over there?
- [03:59]
Lauren Barkman
It's a fake tree.
- [04:02]
Amy B. Chesler
Mine too.
- [04:03]
Host
Same.
- [04:04]
Amy B. Chesler
I do wanna say it's not that life is perfect at the moment. I mean, we've been stuck in a wild world for a bro.
- [04:12]
Host
The year's been rough.
- [04:13]
Amy B. Chesler
2025, I don't think was what any of us were expecting. I mean, the gratefulness and the gratitude can exist no matter what. But I do want to acknowledge 2025 was a wild, wild ride. And season 24 has been really compelling and interesting, but also heartbreaking and heavy. Heavy, yeah. That is not to acknowledge all of those things as well. I just wanted to kind of throw that in there.
- [04:40]
Host
You always do such a good job of finding that balance. But I agree both can coexist and if we do not make space for like those glimmers, the positive stuff too, we'll just burst into flames. It's overwhelming without that. I think it is an important part of advocacy work or any position that you have where you're holding a lot of heavy stuff. It's really important to make time for softness and stress free environments as well. Being in nature and stuff like that. For myself and I know you guys too, it's just very essential to try and find that balance as much as possible. It's not always easy, but I am thankful I had a great Thanksgiving. We stayed home. We all hung out in our pajamas and ate tons of delicious food and played board games and snuggled with the dogs. And I keep watching the morning show over and over and over again. You guys, it's so good. It's on Apple plus, this is not paid. I keep telling Amy and Lauren about it too. I'm going to keep bugging you guys until you watch it as well. I had watched some of season one and then got busy for seven years or whatever it's been. And then I started seeing the promos for season four and I was like, that show's still going. Which I know sounds terrible, but I don't know anything. People who know me know I don't know who's married to each other until, like, years later. I don't know anything about pop culture. Whereas, like, Amy's more tapped into that. But season four was just incredible. One of the best finales of any show I've ever seen. But it was so lazy and lovely. So anyways, that's my contribution to what I did over break was be as sloth, like, as possible. I learned before that we started recording that Lauren and Amy don't really watch the parade. I love watching it. I usually just kind of have it in the background while we're cooking. But this year I was locked in. I loved it. And of course, it made a lot of people mad. I don't know how people could be mad. I'm so glad Millennials are in charge of this parade right now. I can't even tell you. Like Busta Rhymes, Lil Jon K, Pop Demon Hunters. But before we went on Thanksgiving break, we had our Home for the Holidays event in Sacramento, which we plugged quite a bit during season 24. It was such a fun night. It was so much work because we did it the most independently than we've ever done it. Our team had to go and set up. We did have, luckily, more help this time, but it was a lot of work leading up to it. So I'm not going to lie. I was definitely like, I'm ready to not be stressed out about this anymore because I tend to overthink everything. But it all came together. Lauren flew in. She didn't have issues this time, which historically has not been the case because she comes all the way from the complete opposite side of the country. A lot of times. Amy's flight was okay. We weren't sure how that was going to go with the government shutdowns. And everything. So it all just came together. We're so thankful to the venue team. We had it at the North Natomas Community center in Sacramento. This time I really wanted to pick a venue where the money would go directly into the city. This was a great opportunity to do that. The facility is newer and the staff were fantastic. We had a pretty good turnout. It wasn't a massive turnout, but pretty much right after we announced ticket sales, the government shutdown happened. So many are struggling in the economy right now and the state of the world, so we didn't know what to expect. And every time we do these events, especially because we're doing them independently, we kind of don't know what the response is going to be like. I don't know the exact number of people we had, but it felt like a good number to me. Once everybody was there, we had a lot of space to, like, spread out and stuff, which I personally appreciated. And there was, like an outdoor area, so I feel like the venue had a great flow. And as soon as people started arriving, I was just like, oh, my God, this is why we do this, because this is the best. It's so wild to meet people, especially listeners who have supported the show. And maybe I've only connected with them on Instagram before, but I've talked to them for years and then finally getting to meet them or getting to meet supporters from near and far away. We had an incredible listener named Brittany. I want to shout her out. It was her birthday that night, and she flew in from far away and her boyfriend also flew in. I think you said, Amy. Yeah.
- [09:08]
Amy B. Chesler
They lived in two different states. They decided they needed a vacation. And this was like the date weekend. They took and flew to Sacramento to hang out with us and to do karaoke with us. And he was like, it's going to make her birthday if she gets to sing with you guys. Like, what? That's wild. She was the warmest, sweetest, most lovely human. What an honor to meet her and that she wanted to celebrate her birthday with us.
- [09:33]
Host
They were awesome. Everybody was wonderful. We also had, like, a lot of my friends who came out, who I've known for years, A lot of folks I hadn't seen for quite a while. It was just amazing. I'd love to hear from you guys what the highlights were for you.
- [09:47]
Lauren Barkman
I think meeting everyone was such a highlight for me. Every single time we have these things, it's mind blowing how big of a community that we've built. It's amazing. I don't even know the word for it. I struggle with this every time, but it truly is so magical to be able to create this space and also just to lift up this incredible nonprofit as well. I just get blown away and my expectations are exceeded every time with meeting everybody and seeing you guys and it's just so much fun.
- [10:14]
Host
I agree. I can't believe we did three of these this year. I saw Lauren like four times this year. Somehow, even though we live in completely different sides of the country. Nick from the Gathering Inn, who I have had the pleasure of knowing and being friends with for over 20 years. He has had a long relationship with the Gathering in. I've had several other close friends work for them. And so I've been aware and supported their mission for a while. But it felt so amazing to be able to do something like that for them. Specifically for a group that does so much good and houses and clothes and feeds children and families directly in the Sacramento and Placer county area and helps them get into housing, helps them through counseling and all different types of trauma informed services. And as we know, domestic violence is often a factor for those who are unhoused. Hearing from Nick, he did a great job. He spoke about the Gathering in and the incredible work that they do. It was just awesome to get to hear from him. I'm curious what your highlights were. Amy crushed it at trivia. We did Sacramento Trivia, which was so much fun. It felt like people really enjoyed that part. Even the dudes were really getting involved with the trivia.
- [11:28]
Amy B. Chesler
Yeah, Gosh. Well, meeting Britney and spending her birthday with her and just the fact that someone would do that, fly all the way out to support that will never leave me. Liz coming out, our mutual friend who was a season one advertiser.
- [11:45]
Host
Pew, pew. Lasercraft. If you know, you know from season one, she still has that amazing business still going. She makes cool shit with lasers. I hadn't seen her in years. Amy, Liz and I used to see each other at conferences for, like, writing and different professional stuff. Her and her husband came and everybody who came was so lovely. And I thankfully got to spend time talking to pretty much everyone that came since the event was a bit longer than the others in the past, which made me really happy because I really want to be able to speak to everybody and take pictures with everybody. And so it was a perfect size in that way because we had just enough time for exactly everything we wanted to do with the amount of people we had.
- [12:24]
Amy B. Chesler
Another thing that struck me about the attendees is a few husbands said to me as they were coming in My wife has converted me into becoming a listener, but also is your number one supporter, which is always really sweet.
- [12:35]
Host
It's really cute how. Yeah, the partners come. They're like, commentating the interaction. You're like, hi, it's so nice to meet you. They're like, she's freaking. Freaking out right now. She makes me listen to this in the car. I'm like, oh, okay. Thank you. I love it. I love a supportive king.
- [12:50]
Amy B. Chesler
There was also Kathleen. You guys did karaoke. You did Teenage Dirtbag. She was like, I can't believe we just did karaoke together.
- [12:58]
Host
Oh, yeah. Because I had been thinking about doing that song, and then when she said she was doing it, I was like, this is perfect. Now I don't have to do a song by myself. I can sing it with them. It was epic. I loved it. First of all, the bartender had a very heavy pour, which, God bless her, I was ready to go after, like, half a dirty Shirley. So it was a good time.
- [13:18]
Amy B. Chesler
It was also lovely to see where, like, the show started. Sacramento, your origin.
- [13:23]
Host
Also, one of our former interns came out with her friend. They did Pink Pony Club. That was amazing. Yeah, it was a good time. I hope we can do some in the future. I just need a break. Maybe just one next year.
- [13:38]
Lauren Barkman
What do you think in terms of location?
- [13:41]
Host
You guys let us know where you want us to do it. I would love to do a New York event one day. I would love to do Boston, because I've always wanted to go to Boston, and I know we have a big listenership there, but you never know where cases are going to lead us to, depending on, like, what I'm working on and stuff. So sometimes it kind of works out. I think also we could do smaller meetups that are a bit more chill, that might just be a lot easier to produce because really what it's about is connecting with people. I know there's a lot of podcasts that'll do just, like, simple meetups at restaurants or things like that, where it's just like, meet here and hang out for a couple hours. And it's chill. So I'm interested to see what it looks like in the future. When it comes to holiday gifting. I want to give things people really love. Beautiful, timeless pieces that they'll wear for years. That's why I'm going with quince. From Mongolian cashmere sweaters to Italian wool coats, everything is premium quality at a price that actually makes sense. I just gifted some fabulous soft Mongolian cashmere gloves, and I picked up a Candle for myself. Every piece is made with premium materials from ethical, trusted factories and priced far below what other luxury brands charge. Their craftsmanship shows in every detail. The stitching, the fit, the drape. It's elevated, timeless, and made to wear on repeat. If you're looking to build a quality capsule wardrobe, look no further than Quince. Find gifts so good you'll want to keep them with quince. Go to quince.comsww for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I n c e.comSWW to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comSWW thank you so much. Okay, it's kind of embarrassing how bad I am at budgeting.
- [15:40]
Rocket Money Advertiser
Let me see your charges.
- [15:41]
Host
Ugh, fine.
- [15:42]
Rocket Money Advertiser
You spent over $600 on takeout last month.
- [15:44]
Host
I can't cook. You know this.
- [15:47]
Rocket Money Advertiser
Yes, I have had your disgusting food, but you're literally paying for a meal subscription on top of that.
- [15:52]
Host
Whoa, wait, wait, wait.
- [15:53]
Lauren Barkman
That.
- [15:53]
Host
That can't be right.
- [15:55]
Rocket Money Advertiser
Look, just get Rocket Money. It shows you all of your expenses in one place and even tracks your subscriptions. And if there' subscription you don't want, which for you, there are a lot you don't need, you can just cancel right in the app with a few taps.
- [16:07]
Host
So you mean I don't have to call anyone to cancel?
- [16:10]
Rocket Money Advertiser
Nope. No hold times or anything. And they'll even try to get you a refund on some of the months of wasted money, which is a lot of money for you.
- [16:18]
Host
Okay, okay.
- [16:19]
Rocket Money Advertiser
And if you thought I was done, I'm not. The app can also help you make a budget that works for your income. Anytime you get close to your spending limits, it alerts you, so you know exactly where your money is going at all times.
- [16:30]
Host
Alright, I'm in. What do I have to do?
- [16:31]
Rocket Money Advertiser
Go to RocketMoney.com cancel or download the app from the Apple or Google Play stores.
- [16:37]
Grainger Advertiser
If you're a maintenance supervisor for a commercial property, you've had to deal with everything from leaky faucets to flickering light bulbs. But nothing's worse than that ancient boiler that's lived in the building since the day it was built 50 years ago. It's enough to make anyone lose their cool. That's where Grainger comes in. With industrial grade products and dependable, fast delivery, Grainger can help with any challenge, from worn out components to everyday necessities. Call clickgrainger.com or just stop by Ranger for the ones who get it done. If you're the purchasing manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER clickgrainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [17:37]
The RealReal Advertiser
This podcast is supported by the RealReal. Meet Christine. She loves shopping and this is the sound of fashion overload. Too many fabulous things, not enough space. So Christine started selling with the RealReal.
- [17:51]
Rocket Money Advertiser
I've always loved collecting designer pieces, Gucci bags, Prada heels. But my style keeps evolving.
- [17:57]
Amy B. Chesler
Selling with the RealReal game changer. I earn more and they do everything.
- [18:02]
The RealReal Advertiser
Seriously. Just drop off your items or schedule a pickup. We handle the photos, descriptions, pricing, even shipping. You just sit back and watch your items sell fast to our 38 million.
- [18:12]
Rocket Money Advertiser
Members and I get peace of mind knowing I earn more selling with the.
- [18:15]
Amy B. Chesler
RealReal than anywhere else.
- [18:17]
The RealReal Advertiser
Exactly this. That's the sound of your closet working for you. The RealReal earn more, save time, sell fast and right now you can get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time. Go to therealreal.com to get your extra hundred dollars. Therealreal.com that's therealreal.com if you're the purchasing.
- [18:39]
Grainger Advertiser
Manager at a manufacturing plant, you know having a trusted partner makes all the difference. That's why hands down, you count on Grainger for auto reordering. With on time restocks, your team will have the cut resistant gloves they need at the start of their shift and you can end your day knowing they've got safety well in hand. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.
- [19:10]
Host
In March we were at south by Southwest and had our event there and got to meet most of the season 23 survivors and meet so many of our supporters there. And then we had our LA event in July. We had a great turnout. It was hot as hell. It was also a really strange time especially for LA because we didn't know this when we picked the date and location obviously, but there was a lot of ice raids ramping up in LA around the time. My heart just goes out to la from the fires at the start of the year to the ice raids. LA has just been through so much this year and while I don't live there. I love to visit and my best friend Amy lives there and so many people that I love. We have an incredible community from LA that listens to the show. It's always been one of our biggest listenership cities, but we got this really cool venue that had like a pool and dogs were invited and so many incredible supporters came out and local friends and a lot of creatives who have their own shows that are our friends who live in LA came out to support. But it was really cool because I got to meet some survivors in person from past seasons that I had never met in person. That was really awesome. One being Tom from season 22. And Amy, you discovered you guys also had an interesting connection.
- [20:33]
Amy B. Chesler
Yeah. The moment Tom walked into the party, I flashed to his voice because in the scripting, audio editing, like, review process, I'd heard it plenty. I guess it never triggered anything for me, but as soon as Tom walked in, I went, oh, shit, I know him. It's almost comical at this point because we joke all the time that I know everybody or I've met everybody or whatever. And it took me a little while to place him in the evening. I think we were sitting there in the Airbnb just digesting the day, talking about it, and I think it hit me and I was like, oh, my God. I was Tom's camp counselor. Of course, I wouldn't have known his voice because he was six at that time, or maybe it was when he was a junior counselor, so he was like 11. But yeah, it was so funny. And we have since confirmed that we have known each other for maybe 20 years at this point, which is just a wild story.
- [21:25]
Lauren Barkman
Didn't we call him once we found out?
- [21:28]
Host
Yeah, we were back at the Airbnb. I called him, we were talking about it and it was so funny. He was cracking me up. I just love that guy. He's the best. He's an incredible spirit. And it was so cool getting to meet him in person. And who else did we get to meet in person? Odessa. I had never met her in person either. And Madison McGee came out. Jake Teptula, Chris Williams, a lot of industry people as well that we know, like more behind the scenes folks who support us. But it was a good time. And again, we were raising money for great cause. Transdo Task Force and Tending the Garden will be sure to link their nonprofits as well as the gathering in again in the episode notes so you guys can check out the important work that they do. It was a great time. It was a Lot of work putting on the events on top of all the other work that we do. But I feel like it raised a lot of awareness and money for good causes. And also it was really special to connect with listeners from different cities and have that really personal one on one time with each person that came out and really get to talk to them about what the show means to them or how it has made them feel or how they've connected to it. I feel like it was really restorative and like energizing for myself and the team to have that connection, especially in a year that was really tough. It brought a lot of joy within a lot of hard shit. So very thankful to each and every person who came out and supported or people who just shared the flyers. Every bit that people contribute is meaningful to us and we appreciate it. Amy, you touched on this a little bit, but I feel like it's important to like, acknowledge as we're reflecting that it's been a really difficult year for a lot of us because of wars and political unrest and fuckery. I can't speak for anybody else, but for me personally, it's been a really tough year. But I feel like coming out on the other side of it. I'm reflecting a lot, learning a lot and growing a lot as a person. I'm definitely ready to start a new chapter. The seasons this year, season 23 and 24, kind of different in terms of subject matter for us. Different areas that we've never dug into. Very heavy in research, but also just heavy topics. I'm just curious from you guys what the year has been like overall and any reflections you might want to add.
- [23:57]
Amy B. Chesler
It's just a wild time to be alive and I think that 2025 made that very clear.
- [24:02]
Lauren Barkman
Being informed is exhausting and overwhelming at times. Like, you really do have to take time for yourself and center yourself.
- [24:10]
Amy B. Chesler
I think that was my theme for 2025, taking time for myself. Trying to find as much centeredness as possible because everything else was just not.
- [24:20]
Host
Yeah, it's so wild how much has changed in the last year. I remember being in Indiana working on season 22 when Trump was reelected, and I just remember hearing people like cheering in the streets the morning after I woke up and I did not feel that way. It's really hard, especially survivors of sexual assault, to make peace with the fact that our president is an accused rapist and calls women piggy and says the R word and is the king of gaslighting. There's no real way to leave politics out of the work that we do. There's no real way to leave politics out of criminal justice. I'm certainly critical of all sides of the aisle. I definitely am a principles over party type of gal. But it's been extremely hard. The government shutdown was hard. The conflict in the Middle East, Palestine continues to be destroyed, and the astronomical amount of murders that have taken place there, the unrest and wars in so many other countries. We're all sitting with so much. And then in addition, doing the work we do and sitting with the subjects we sit with, it can feel really overwhelming. It's really essential to also make time for peace and joy where we can. I heard from some listeners, these seasons are really heavy and life's really heavy, and it's just too much. I totally understand it, and I think people have to listen when they have capacity and when it feels right for them. And to your point, Lauren, like, we all want to be informed, but being informed right now is pretty exhausting. I hope that the future will look different, I guess, is all I could say about that.
- [26:12]
Lauren Barkman
What you said earlier about being a victim and having to see everyone vote for something that happened to you, I don't think a lot of people understand that. How it would bother you. People in my life, sometimes they don't understand why I would be upset over these things. It almost reopens those wounds that you're trying to heal from, especially with the people that are closest with you.
- [26:37]
Host
Yeah, A lot of people are becoming politically apathetic or apolitical because they're like, all sides are bad.
- [26:45]
Lauren Barkman
Yes.
- [26:46]
Host
This is a different level. Somebody who's been indicted on many crimes, somebody who has a lifelong track record, and the misinformation is so rampant, Technology and AI and mistrust in the media and all of these things have contributed to this really divisive scenario that we're in now.
- [27:09]
Amy B. Chesler
I also say, as a victim, my life is directly dictated by the legal system and the criminal justice system that's surrounding me. That's just how I see it, as a victim and a survivor. My brother, technically, he did get a different sentence, but politics have changed and his sentence has changed. He lost his extra year for using a knife for murdering my mom. Because in California, the legal landscape changed. And what it tells me when people say, like, I just can't get into that, it's like, well, then you haven't had to. So I think it's a deep privilege to stay apolitical. It means that potentially you're not being dragged through the criminal justice system.
- [27:46]
Host
Everything is political. When you live in a society like the society we live in, you go to work, you have rights at work. Guess what determines that. Laws, your relationships, where you can go, what you have access to. It's all fucking politics. And it's a very privileged position to take. If you're trying to seek justice through the criminal justice system, you're relying on things that are political. It's definitely intertwined with the work that we do. It's about principles. It's about people having civil rights, it's about people having religious freedom. It's about children having rights, women having rights, all people having rights and removing abuse, removing harm and making life more equitable. And you can put those in whatever packaging you like. But when you are sound on your core principles and what you accept and what you don't and what's important to you and what's not, and you make your political positions rooted in that, I think that's the best we all can do at this point. Speaking of children's rights or lack of rights, I would love to hear from you guys. Season 24 Reflections. We did so much research behind the scenes. So many lengthy interviews with survivors and their family members. We also got a ton of feedback and messages from people behind the scenes. Curious to hear from you guys, from your purview, what stood out to you?
- [29:14]
Amy B. Chesler
The first thing that stands out to me mostly is the resilience and strength of the survivors. Just how heartbreaking it was that many of them were survivors going into the programs and then whether their parents were brainwashed to a certain degree or coerced or whatever the mechanism was, then stayed an ever evolving length of time. These threads that pull together through all of these stories and just the immense work that the survivors have had to do to shed this trauma that was forced on them. Another thing that really stands out to me is that I've been filtering the submission inbox and over the last several months, as this season's been airing, almost all of the submissions, which we get a lot, are from survivors of the troubled teen industry. The sheer number of programs, Survivors that have so many similarities, but also as all survivors are different, all their stories are different. But each survivor and each story that we've received has just been so heartbreaking, impactful, moving, and it's been so hard to encapsulate everything in 24 episodes. I feel like there's so many stories we received that weren't heard necessarily, but bits and pieces were heard through other people's testimonies.
- [30:34]
Lauren Barkman
The amount of people that got Sent away. I was really, really surprised by that. You don't really hear about these programs and you definitely don't hear about the abuse that happens in these programs. And also the amount of money that these programs are making behind closed doors is absolutely disgusting. There's just so much wrong.
- [30:51]
Host
I agree. It's shocking to me not only again, how little rights children have and the legal loopholes or gaps in which these institutions are able to continue in so many places is absolutely shocking and heartbreaking to me and to us all, as it should be. But the fact that it's also as prevalent as it is still was really surprising to me as we got into the research. Also the influence of people like Dr. Phil or TV shows that were happening during the early aughts, these TV shows that were essentially capitalizing on this boom, quote unquote, within the so called troubled teen industry, that was eye opening to me. The way that public figures like someone like Dr. Phil had instilled so much trust within his following and a lot of these parents that that was enough for them to like trust that these places were a good idea. It's just very eye opening to the far reaching impact of even something as simple as a talk show. When we're not digging beyond the surface and asking enough questions and there's not enough oversight to know is there scientific evidence to support this? What are the long term effects of this, who is qualified to conduct this work, who's going to ensure that children are safe, et cetera. With every season we hope the right people hear it and overall that we'll continue to be able to share ways that we can help contribute to changing these laws and removing these institutions. The response that we got, the sheer number of submissions, we got not only from survivors, but parents who place their children in these facilities or institutions. Two of the interviews that really also stand out to me, alongside the survivors of the programs themselves is Shannon and Terry. The parents that we heard from who unfortunately have lost their children, but that had children at Ivy Ridge. Their episodes were extremely powerful and there was so much power in their ability to hold space for the people they were then and the people that made those choices then, the people they are now, their intentions, what they would do differently, where they hold themselves accountable, just so much respect for them as women and mothers.
- [33:29]
Amy B. Chesler
Something that really resonates with me that we did mention via narration and information that we found and digging into this topic. But hearing directly from Max's dad in the final episodes was really powerful. The insidious ways that the programs would close and then reopen under new names. And then even that programs were connected without even the parents knowing. So the two programs that Max was sent to, Max's dad didn't even know that they were affiliated with the same parent company. Obviously that information would go pretty far for a parent who's about to pump thousands of dollars into these programs. I'm very grateful for those parents who stepped forward and shared this information and shared their perspectives. I'm very grateful for everybody that offered their stories and offered their perspectives. Because like Lauren said, a lot of people still don't know about these programs. Haley mentions that a mental health professional that she went to didn't even know. So this was a really necessary season and all of the Survivors are immensely amazing.
- [34:37]
Host
Just incredible collection of voices and perspectives. And I loved working with so many Neurodiverse people this season. So many other Survivors have such cool creative interests and outlets on a human level. I really felt like I connected with a lot of them and their energy and their interests.
- [35:02]
Rocket Money Advertiser
You really want to be better with your finances. You try to put money away in savings. You look for deals. You wrote out a budget once, a long time ago, yet you still overdraft from time to time. And you still have debt. The truth is, managing money is not easy, but Rocket Money can help. Rocket Money shows you exactly what you're spending every month. From there, the app helps you make a budget that meets your financial goals. The app even gives you real time alerts when you're about to go over your budget so you don't spend too much. With Rocket Money, you can also see all of your subscriptions at a glance and cancel the ones you don't want right from the app. Rocket Money can even try to get you a refund for some of the money you wasted. Plus, you can use the smart Savings feature to start putting more money away. Rocket Money analyzes your accounts to determine the optimal time to stow away cash without going over your budget. Our members report that the Rocket Money app saved them more than $700 a year. Getting better with money doesn't have to be a pipe dream. Rocket Money can make it a reality. Go to RocketMoney.com cancel or download the app from the Apple app or Google Play stores.
- [36:03]
Capital One Advertiser
If you love to travel, Capital One has a rewards credit card that's perfect for you. With the Capital One Venture X card, you earn unlimited double miles on everything you buy. Plus you get premium benefits at a collection of luxury hotels when you book on Capital One Travel. And with Venturex you get access to over 1,000 airport lounges worldwide. Open up a world of travel possibilities with a Capital One Venture X card. What's in your wallet?
- [36:29]
Credit Card Advertiser
Terms apply. Lounge access is subject to change. See capitalone.com for details.
- [36:35]
Host
I'm having a little bit of Internet challenges, so Amy, would you mind reading the season 25 summary that lets listeners know what the next season will be about?
- [36:46]
Amy B. Chesler
Season 25 of Something Was Wrong discusses sexual violence and systemic betrayal within colleges and universities across the United States, from state schools to private campuses, an insidious culture reverberates, one where institutions often prioritize reputation, athletics and financial interests over the safety and well being of their students. Through in depth reporting and survivor testimony, season 25 explores the origins, evolution and and current failures of Title ix, the landmark federal civil rights law designed to protect students from sex based discrimination in education. Survivors share their experiences navigating institutional betrayal, gaslighting and harmful policies that too often shield and enable perpetrators rather than protect victims. We also examined the far reaching impact of the 2022 Supreme Court decision Cummings vs Premier Rehab Keller, which limited the ability of survivors to seek emotional distress damages under federal civil rights laws, further weakening accountability for schools that mishandle sexual misconduct cases. Something Was Wrong's 25th season exposes how systemic failures, legal loopholes and institutional self preservation continue to silence survivors and what must change to make campuses truly safe.
- [38:13]
Host
Amazing. Thank you so much for reading that. Sorry you guys, my Internet's acting up. It doesn't want to be working right now either. We're in just that part of the year where it's like nobody wants to do anything. I was being really honest with Amy like the day before we were going out for Thanksgiving break. I'm like I don't want to fucking do anything. I really don't. But also Amy, while I have you on a positive note, we have an update on the Kaitlin Braun case which we discussed in Something was wrong, season 18, episodes one through seven. Amy actually wrote this update and since my Internet sucks right now, Amy, would you mind reading that for us as well?
- [38:52]
Amy B. Chesler
Something Was Wrong Season 18, episodes 1 through 7 aired September through November of 2023 and highlighted the experience of Caitlin Braun's victims, which included her former best friend as well as an ex girlfriend of Braun's and several doulas who were scammed by her. Braun was initially arrested in March of 2023 for fraudulently seeking the services of numerous doulas across Ontario, Canada and harassing many doulas. She sought care from a 2025 CBC News article states that, quote, in the year leading up to her crimes against doulas, Braun visited hospitals 178 times presenting issues that weren't real or self inflicted to obtain medical attention. She also reported being sexually assaulted 60 times at hospitals around the province, allegations police determined were not true. She was cautioned by them to stop or face charges. Braun also falsely claimed several of her family members died and she'd been the victim of a home invasion. While working as a social worker, she lied to her Boss that an 11 year old client had sexually assaulted her. She was fired over the incident, end quote. Since Braun's initial arrest, we've had the opportunity to update you a few times on her journey and today we have even more updates for you. But first let's do a quick run through of details to refresh your memory. Braun pled guilty in December to 21 charges including fraud, indecent acts, false pretenses and mischief for seeking the help of doulas in what ended up being false pregnancies from June 2022 to February 2023, end quote. During her related sentencing proceeding on January 17, 2024, Kaitlin Braun, quote, spoke after over a dozen doulas shared that they were traumatized and financially set back by 25 year old Braun's actions. The judge involved in this case, Justice Robert g. Said on January 17 that he needed more time to reflect on the joint submission that the Crown and the defense had put forward that Braun receive instead of jail time, a two year conditional sentence for house arrest. With certain exceptions, it would be followed by a three year probation period and Braun would have to receive therapy. She would also have to wear a GPS ankle bracelet, undergo mandatory counseling and is forbidden to contact the victims. Additionally, she was banned from using the Internet and social media for two years, although we're still not sure how they would monitor that properly. Judge G announced the court would reconvene for Braun sentencing on February 14, 2024. At her February 14 sentencing hearing, it was reported that Judge G made a statement saying he empathized with the doulas who fell victim to Braun. The 21 offenses committed by Biz Braun caused significant, long lasting harm to her victims. The trauma caused was expressed eloquently by many during their victim impact statements. Many now have trust issues. It's impacted their abilities to carry out duties in their chosen professions as doulas. Some have left the profession entirely and have all suffered financially because of Ms. Braun. G said he did not agree with the Crown and defense's joint submission asking for the two year conditional sentence for Braun, but is reluctantly bound to impose the proposed sentence given that Braun is young, she's a first time offender and she pled guilty, end quote. Two and a half months later, Kaitlin Braun was arrested by Hamilton Police. On April 30, 2024, Braun was charged for April 2024 crimes committed while she was on house arrest. According to another CBC News article, Braun pled guilty to the four new charges in January of 2025, including two counts of obtaining by false pretenses services under $5,000 as well as two harassment related charges. Kaitlin Braun sentencing for her newest charges took place on June 9, 2025. According to CBC News. At the hearing, Braun was sentenced to three years in prison. The remainder of her house arrest sentence will also be spent behind bars, which brings her total prison sentence to three years and eight months of incarceration. When delivering Braun's sentence, quote Ontario Court Justice Joe Ferrucci noted that a psychiatric assessment found Braun had a high risk of reoffending and inflicting psychological harm on others if she doesn't undergo treatment and take medication. Even then she is very likely to offend and create victims, he said. End quote. CBC News reports that Judge Ferrucci noted that Braun's psychiatric report diagnosed her with borderline personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, anxiety and depression. He also pointed out that the report determined she was aware of what she was doing when she committed the crimes. He said it would be a danger to the safety of the community, end quote, to allow Braun to continue to serve her sentence under house arrest. Interesting to add is that during Braun's psychiatric assessment she was assessed for factitious disorder, but it was concluded her behavior does not reflect that diagnosis. Factitious disorder is when a person fabricates symptoms to gain attention from others. Judge Fiucci pointed out the quote Braun posed as having a wide range of issues against many different people in her life, which isn't typical of factitious disorder. And when confronted with the truth, she admitted to lying, apologized and sought forgiveness, which is also not typical, end quote. What remains to be true is that nothing has been typical about this case since the get go. And although we're happy, Brawn's victims have received some semblance of justice as well as potential solace in knowing that she won't be able to harm other doulas for the next three years and eight months. The response to her actions have often felt like too little too late. In Braun's case. We've seen a lot of delayed reactive justice, which is in deep contrast to the proactiveness that's required to keep her from perpetrating more crimes. Our hope for the future is that the criminal justice system will be vigilant in their handling of her case. Our hearts are with the survivors of Braun's now and always.
- [45:34]
Host
So beautifully written and read. Thank you so much, abc. Our hearts are definitely with the survivors, and I hope that Bronn will be reformed through this experience and get the care that she needs. But we have been thinking of the survivors and hope that in some way they're able to gain some semblance of healing from this conviction. Changing gears a little bit. I wanted to talk about our other show, what Came Next, which Amy hosts and produces. How many episodes are there now?
- [46:05]
Amy B. Chesler
You know what? It feels really, really special. I'm getting chills right now. You asked me what number, and you know what number we happen to be on right now? What? 152, which is my mom's birthday, and it's like my lucky number. So 152 episodes are out right now. The 153rd will be out on Friday. So weird that we get to update on this exact number. It just feels symbolic.
- [46:28]
Host
I love that so much. What continues to impress me is Amy's ability to connect in each and every one of these interviews and the heart that she really has for the work and for the time that the survivors contribute. I just love working alongside her because I know she puts her whole heart into every single episode that she does, and she contributes so meaningfully and with so much thoughtfulness. And shout out to Steven, who is our audio editor on what Came Next. He's a fantastic partner to our whole team. And shout out to Becca, our continued audio editor. She's been on our team over three years now. She's incredible. Shout out to Steven and Becca, who make us sound so much better than we do live, and always crush it. But, Amy, I'd love to hear about a few recent interviews that you've done. Some episodes you've got coming out in the future that you're excited about or anything that you'd like to share.
- [47:32]
Amy B. Chesler
Thank you. Well, 152 episodes in, it's really hard, like, to highlight specific episodes because every Survivor has deeply impacted me and I believe the audience. So I'm so grateful to connect with each one. But one of the most powerful episodes that we were able to release this year on what Came Next is an episode, I would say, 18 years in the making. I had the ability to speak to my brother's ex girlfriend. Her episode was released on August 1. Her name is Jen Holman and her episode was called There Is a Softer Life. She and I have kept loosely in contact over the last 18 years through social media and not long ago she reached out and asked, I guess consent if she could share her story about surviving my brother. We talked about her healing process and what those years have been like for her. It became clear that she wanted to share her story on what came next. It was a really powerful process for both of us. I learned a lot about the night of my mom's murder. To be honest, I think I just wasn't in a mental space to have that conversation prior. But this work has kind of opened me up in a lot of ways. She and I actually will be collaborating on something that will be exciting to share about in the new year in 2026. Every Survivor just leaves me so floored. What came next on Instagram? The DMs are a wonderful space to like recommend powerful stories if you want to hear an interview or coverage on our platforms. I received a DM from a really faithful listener. She suggested a survivor and I went to DM that survivor and I had realized I had had a message from that person. Her name is Kelly Sutliff from years ago, who had actually asked to be on what Came Next and share her story. It had been sitting in my message requests for a while because I don't often see those or they get hidden. So it meant a lot to me to finally be connected with her and to be able to share her story, which is really, really powerful. She is a mental health professional and a survivor and an advocate and a nonprofit owner. So it just blows my mind that I get to meet all these incredible people and share them with our platform and I'm so grateful to do that with you and with the Broken Cycle Media team.
- [49:56]
Host
Also just want to thank both of you, Lauren and Amy, again for everything that you contribute day in and day out to the survivors in our community and cannot thank you enough for everything that you do. It's impactful and it makes a real difference. So thank you deeply. And I also want to say thank you so much to every survivor and expert that has shared with us this year and for each and every listener and supporter of the show. We appreciate you so deeply and if you'd like to support the work that we do, you can become a community member on Apple Podcasts. You can leave us a positive review wherever you listen. You can support our sponsors or purchase a sticker from our new sticker shop@brokencyclemedia.com but no matter how you choose to contribute, we just cannot thank you enough. We hope you guys have a wonderful holiday season and we have so much incredible content coming your way in 2026. We look forward to being in the work together with you guys. We're I just hope everybody has a good rest of their year and stays safe out there.