S25 Ep23: BTS with BCM Spring 2026

Summary

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Something Was Wrong – S25 Ep23: BTS with BCM Spring 2026

Podcast: Something Was Wrong
Host: Tiffany Reese (Broken Cycle Media)
Episode: S25 Ep23: BTS with BCM Spring 2026
Date: May 14, 2026
Guests: Amy B. Chesler (Associate Producer, Host of What Came Next) & Lauren Barkman (Social Media Manager, S20 Survivor)

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Overview

This behind-the-scenes (BTS) episode offers a candid, heartfelt, and insightful look at the internal workings of the Something Was Wrong (SWW) team, centering on reflections from Season 25, which focused on Title IX and campus gender-based violence. Host Tiffany Reese chats with team members Amy B. Chesler and Lauren Barkman about their personal and professional growth, community impact, survivor submissions, and broader takeaways from the season. The trio also share personal updates, discuss the power and challenges of healing, celebrate a recent Webby Award win, and reflect on the show's ongoing mission to center survivors' voices.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Team Introductions & Purpose of BTS Episodes

• Tiffany Reese formally introduces Amy (associate producer, survivor, advocate, author) and Lauren (social media manager, S20 survivor, TikTok creator) [01:36].
• Purpose of BTS: “pulling back the curtain,” connecting with listeners, reflecting on the latest season, and sharing team updates [04:00].

2. Reflections on Season 25 — Title IX & Campus Abuse

• Learning Curve: Both Amy and Lauren admitted to prior unfamiliarity with Title IX, highlighting the season’s educational role [04:28, 06:30].
• Community Response & Survivor Impact: The team received overwhelming personal messages from listeners who related deeply to the season’s exploration of institutional betrayal, orchestrated complexity, and failures in campus protections [05:35, 06:34].
• Orchestrated Complexity: The team discusses how complicated institutional processes and responses to sexual violence intentionally or unintentionally obscure accountability, a term new to many listeners and survivors [07:34, 08:05].
• Gaslighting & Societal Hypocrisy: Tiffany critiques cultural performativity around “caring about women” and challenges myths of gender equality, linking them to legislative failures [08:05].
• The Impact of Storytelling: Both survivor and expert testimonies are seen as crucial in educating, empowering, and validating listeners—sometimes even giving language to survivors who had lacked the words or frameworks to describe their experiences [11:02].
  • Notable Listener Quote [11:02]:

    “Because of the resources and the vocabulary you’ve provided this season, I was able to identify administrative deception and a safety vacuum. Your show didn’t just inform me, it armed me.”

• Expert Collaborations: Deep gratitude for professionals like Dr. Badera, SANE nurse Kayla Hartman, Dr. Holland, and Dr. Cruz for adding nuance, expertise, and survivor-centered care [11:45].
• The Reality of Reporting: Noting a persistent and often traumatizing gap between the policy on paper and lived experience; reporting can entail emotional, social, and academic risks [17:45].
• Key Institutional Takeaways:
  • Institutional neutrality doesn’t always feel neutral
  • Survivor credibility is unjustly questioned
  • Retaliation, isolation, and long-term consequences for survivors are widespread
• Submission Encouragement: Ongoing call for new survivor stories via the website [17:19].

3. Personal & Team Updates

South by Southwest (SXSW) Adventures [20:50]

• Variety & Google “Next Gen” Event: Tiffany and Amy revel in their experience at SXSW, including celebrity encounters (Dustin from Stranger Things, Killer Mike, Alanis Morissette, Kevin Bacon, Kyra Sedgwick) [21:30-26:44].
• Comedy Showcases & Female Empowerment [27:53]: Celebration of meeting rising feminist comedian Sophie Buttle, and the joy in seeing women dominate the comedy scene.
• Personal Reflections on Anxiety and Social Experiences: Tiffany humorously details her nervousness around celebrities and her coping mechanisms at high-profile events [22:18-23:49].

Healing Journeys – Therapy, Neurodivergence, & Self-Discovery [31:05]

• Lauren on ongoing healing: Coping with trauma, struggles finding a therapist, and the rarity of open conversations about therapy roadblocks [31:27].
• Tiffany on somatic therapy: Life-changing work focusing on body regulation, sensory sensitivities, and visualization techniques—particularly beneficial for neurodivergent individuals [32:19-36:12].
• Neurodivergence & Trauma Mimicry: Exploring how trauma responses can resemble ADHD/autism traits, with a strong emphasis on self-awareness and accessible care [38:00-40:49].
• Broader Message on Self-Knowledge [41:48, Amy]:

  “With every passing year, it’s about being more attuned to who we are and respectfully existing in the truest way we can possible to ourselves.”

• Importance of Therapy Access: Acknowledgment of privilege and barriers to care; encouragement for listeners to keep seeking the right help [42:44].

4. Survivorship, Family, & Ongoing Legal Challenges

• Amy’s Media Work: Recent interviews and docuseries work sharing her family history and survivor perspectives (Soft White Underbelly, etc.), including the use of SWW concepts like “himpathy” [43:22-44:52].

• Personal Update – Amy’s Brother: Case update about her brother’s prison relocation, the complex emotional impact, and the unending nature of justice system involvement for survivors [45:17-48:55].

  • Notable Quotes:
    • [47:51] Tiffany:

      “The shockwaves… when you receive something like that, the physical digestion that you have to do in addition to the processing emotionally. These are the types of things that survivors have to live with on a daily basis that people forget about.”

    • [48:12] Amy:

      “It’s also a lifelong criminal justice process for a lot of us who are engaged with it forever. It’s almost like the forgotten institutional betrayal or trauma.”

• Tiffany’s Family Update: No contact from abusive parents post-memoir season, expressing contentment with her found family and blessings [48:55].

5. Webby Award Win & Show Legacy

• Webby Win: SWW wins Best Documentary Podcast (with honorable mention in crime & justice) for Season 23 & 24 [51:45], with a celebratory trip to New York and Tiffany bringing her family.
  • Quote [51:45]:

    “It’s just one of those moments where it’s like pinch me. It has not even set in yet… We couldn’t do it without survivors… everybody plays a role and makes the thing happen.”

• Team & Family Appreciation: Acknowledgment of the team, families, and especially their children, as the show strives for a better future for all children [54:39-55:51].
  • Amy notes [55:51]:

    “This might be my trauma speaking, but if God forbid, anything happened to me, they have a trove of my voice everywhere… But it’s also for a better future for them.”

• Mother’s Day Reflections: Team shares gratitude for motherhood and the importance of creating a safer, more informed future for the next generation [56:11-56:18].

6. The Mission: Past, Present & Future

• Reflection on the Show’s Breadth: Revisiting topics covered—emotional abuse, coercive control, gaslighting, domestic/sexual violence, family/community harm—emphasizing that survivor-centered storytelling and naming harm clearly are the heart of the show [56:18-57:53].
  • Tiffany:

    “The through line has always been the same. It’s been about centering survivors voices, naming harm clearly, and creating space for people to be seen, understood, and maybe feel a little less alone.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Amy B. Chesler [03:01]:

  "Holy shit, we've accomplished a lot since 2021."

• Lauren Barkman [06:30]:

  “If I had the resources that this podcast gave me, my life would be completely different.”

• Tiffany Reese [08:05]:

  “There’s this orchestrated complexity and gaslighting of this idea that we care about women… The fuck you do. You don’t… If that were true, our entire culture and justice system would be completely different.”

• Listener Email [11:02]:

  “This current season on Title IX has literally been my survival guide over the last several weeks. Your show didn’t just inform me, it armed me.”

• Amy B. Chesler [13:30]:

  “I couldn’t ask for better—amen.”

• Team at SXSW [26:44]:

  “I had a friend… when we went to the hotel for that Next Gen thing, the elevators opened up as we walked into the hotel and there she was, but behind her was Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick. And I was like, what is life?”

• Lauren Barkman [31:27]:

  “I’m struggling a lot with therapy and finding a therapist, which you don’t hear people talk about often. Trying to be vulnerable with a therapist is really hard and I’ve already been through a few therapists.”

• Tiffany Reese [32:30]:

  “It focuses more on body regulation and recognizing and reconnecting and understanding how trauma and anxiety… live in the body.”

• Amy B. Chesler [41:48]:

  “…with every passing year, it’s about being more attuned to who we are and respectfully existing in the truest way we can possible to ourselves.”

• Amy B. Chesler [48:55]:

  “It’s almost like the forgotten institutional betrayal or trauma. The grief for the loss of my mother… but then underneath that umbrella… all of the nuance of the grief that the justice system forces us to face with every notification.”

• Tiffany Reese [56:18]:

  "The through line has always been the same… centering survivors' voices, naming harm clearly, and creating space for people to be seen, understood, and maybe feel a little less alone."

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Team Introductions & Purpose – 01:36–04:00
• Season 25 Reflections – 04:00–17:45
• Listener Impact, Quotes & Messages – 11:02–17:19
• Personal & Team Updates/SXSW – 21:25–28:22
• Healing & Therapy Journeys – 31:05–42:44
• Amy's Media/Legal Updates – 43:22–48:12
• Webby Award News & Reflections – 51:42–55:51
• Mother's Day & Show Legacy – 56:11–57:53

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Conclusion

This BTS episode exemplifies the openhearted, community-driven approach of Something Was Wrong. Through honest dialogue about trauma, activism, teamwork, healing, and survivor-centered storytelling, Tiffany, Amy, and Lauren showcase the podcast’s profound impact—both on individuals and on the larger culture. Their transparency about challenges, victories, and personal growth is not just informative but deeply validating and empowering for listeners and survivors everywhere.

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Transcript

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[Tiffany Reese]

listing says heated pool but there's actually

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[Tiffany Reese]

If my teenager starts calling me Leslie

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instead of mom, that's a family thing. Leslie that makes sense.

[Tiffany Reese]

Sorry.

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Book with support, not surprises. Verbo Care and 24. 7 Life Support. If you know you're verbo terms apply.

[Tiffany Reese]

See Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences and discusses topics that may be upsetting this season discusses sexual, physical and psychological violence Please consume the following episodes with care For a full content warning, sources and resources for each individual episode, please visit the Episode Notes Opinions shared by the guests of the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of Broken Cycle Media. The podcast and any linked materials should not be misconstrued as a substitution for legal or medical advice. Thank you so much for listening. You think you know me? You don't know me well at all. You don't know anybody till you talk to

[Amy B. Chesler]

someone.

[Tiffany Reese]

Hello friends. I am so excited to be here today with Amy and Lauren from our team. As a reminder, Amy B. Chesler, or ABC as I like to call her, is an associate producer on Something Was Wrong and is the host of of what Came Next here at Broken Cycle Media. Many of you know her and love her from Season seven where she shared her own story, which was also featured on shows like Evil Lives Here. She's the author of her memoir Working for Justice and also co hosts the podcast Familicide. Amy brings so much lived experience, advocacy and heart to this work. She's such an important part of our team and she helps us support survivors and tell their stories. And Lauren Barkman is our Social Media Manager here at Broken Cycle Media. She's also the owner of Luxury Media, her own social media company. Many of you also know her as a survivor who shared her own story on season 20 of Something Was Wrong and through her content on TikTok, where she continues to openly share about her experiences. Lauren brings both lived experience and a deep level of care to everything she does, from shaping our online presence to connecting with our community, and she plays such an important role in supporting this work and the people she reaches. Thank you both for being here and for being on our team. I decided to do official introductions this time. How do you feel?

[Amy B. Chesler]

You made me tear up and also I realized, holy shit, we've accomplished a lot since 2021.

[Tiffany Reese]

We've come a long way. And as a reminder, I'm Tiffany Reese, a documentarian, advocate, author and the president of Broken Cycle Media. I created and host Something Was Wrong and co produce what came next. I've written two books, a gratitude journal called Everything Sucks and a workbook for creative entrepreneurs called Strong Women Rising. I live in Northern California with my family and our two dogs. And this work is something I've dedicated much of my life to building alongside this community. And two things on my life bucket list are to be published in the New York Times and to meet Larry David. Go team.

[Lauren Barkman]

Yay. I couldn't even talk when you had mentioned us because my dog was drinking water. Now we're good.

[Tiffany Reese]

That's okay. We've all got our pets in the background. We're going to make the best of it. We have an open door pet and child policy for all meetings here at Broken Cycle Media.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

Everybody's welcome.

[Tiffany Reese]

What the purpose of these behind the scenes episodes really is about is pulling back the curtain on our work, connecting directly with you, the listener, creating a space for reflection and updates and and also answer some listener questions, talk about future seasons and other things that are going on behind the scenes. I wanted to start with season 25 reflections. Curious to hear from both of you what your personal reflections were and what were some of the things that you heard within community.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Amy here. I'm just gonna jump in. I think when you first mentioned this season, it kind of took me a little bit by surprise because I knew nothing virtually about Title ix. We began digging in and just seeing how incredibly pertinent it was to be spoken about. Towards the beginning of the season we had a chat with Dr. Badera who brought so much expertise and really eye opening information. And then I was blown away by each survivor. There were so many powerful stories shared while managing the outreach inbox. I had a gut instinct that we were gonna receive a lot of messages about this season as it unfolded. One of the most impactful things was to receive information from a listener who was also a victim of a perpetrator in the season. That was something that I was expecting as well just because of how long he had been at this. I will add too, though technically Allegra was a submission from hearing the season.

[Tiffany Reese]

Yeah.

[Amy B. Chesler]

And she heard the topic and she knew she had to submit to continue that perspective of the inbox. It was really eye opening, shocking and saddening to see how many people this season really touched and how many listeners could relate to the topic personally in terms of not only the harm and the gender based violence that's so prevalent on campuses, but the institutional betrayal that happens within the reporting process or even sometimes just by being on campus. And I think that was something that was such a deep gut check to hear time and time again not only from the survivors, but also the experts that you were able to interview. There are terms that I've taken away from this season that I can now apply to everything in life. I just am so appreciative of, like, what I learned through the process of this season.

[Tiffany Reese]

Lauren, did you want to share?

[Lauren Barkman]

Yeah. So I didn't know what Title IX was either. I was sexually assaulted in college more than once. Not many people know about this, but if I had the resources that this podcast gave me, my life would be completely different. I didn't know where to go. I didn't know what resources I had. I didn't have any resources. Didn't know that was a department that we had the option of going to and speaking with orchestrated complexity. I didn't know what that was at the time, but I knew that there's all these different things where people just wouldn't believe me. It definitely does change your entire life. I knew schools were corrupted, but seeing how things played out in this season really opened my eyes to just how corrupted it is. Bringing administration into it and how it all comes together is just wild to me. It really is from the higher ups down and we need to focus on the problems there.

[Tiffany Reese]

Thank you so much for being willing to share that with us. I'm so sorry you experienced that.

[Amy B. Chesler]

We love you and we appreciate being a safe space for you and we're really sorry that that happened. Appreciate your openness.

[Tiffany Reese]

We always got your back.

[Lauren Barkman]

Thank you guys for just giving me the space to navigate that. As a team member and understanding. I think it's important to talk about the orchestrated complexity. I never knew there was a word for it. I've seen it so many times since then, I've been able to use that word and say, that's what this is. And with April being Sexual Assault Awareness Month, you're seeing all these people tell their stories, but, you know, certain few tend to orchestrate complexity around it and make up excus or say things that maybe might make the perpetrator look better.

[Tiffany Reese]

My perspective is that there's this orchestrated complexity and gaslighting of this idea that we care about women. If you look at the data and the statistics and the history, it's just not supported by data. And it feels like pandering when people are trying to use women's safety about trans people being in sports or like drag queens reading to kids at brunch. Shit that they're like, we want to protect women and children. The fuck you do. You don't. The fact of the matter is, if that were true, our entire culture and justice system would be completely different. It really bothers me when people even act like women have equal rights or that we are in some way actually on top.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

I've seen the hottest takes and it's

[Tiffany Reese]

just like the data doesn't support that. I first learned about Title IX through an incredible documentary done by Kirby Dick called the Hunting Ground, which we mentioned several times within the season. And it's a really survivor driven documentary. Could not recommend it enough. Kirby Dick is a fantastic director and very kind human being. I remember watching it and it was the first time I had heard about Title IX and the failings of the system. I think the most shocking takeaway when I watched that documentary was how many people were not only being sexually assaulted, but how many people were getting away with it. How few colleges were actually taking any real or meaningful action to protect survivors. So when we started to see similar submissions coming in 10 years after the documentary came out, I started reflecting back to that documentary and doing some research on what's changed, if anything, in the past 10 years. And spoiler alert, it got way worse. It really shook me to realize that not only had there not been progress, but due to different administrative choices of presidents over the years as well as Supreme Court decisions, it has made it even harder for survivors. And so any topic where we can dig in, research and educate the listeners has always been really important to me. And it feels like we really achieved what we sought out to, which is to validate the survivors experiences and create the best experience possible for the survivors we work with as well as educate our listeners and hopefully empower folks so that God forbid they or someone they love finds themselves in this position, they can take this knowledge forward.

[Amy B. Chesler]

It really does just show the real time change. And I keep thinking about the trickle down effect of what we've equipped people with in terms of knowledge.

[Tiffany Reese]

I think we've already been hearing quite a bit of that. We want to protect people's privacy, obviously. But I asked Amy to gather some of the listener reflections.

[Amy B. Chesler]

This was a very impactful message that we received amidst the season still airing. It reads briefly. Dear Tiffany, ABC and team, I am writing to you in a state of urgency and Deep personal gratitude. I am a longtime listener and work as an administrative medical professional, and this current season on Title IX has literally been my survival guide over the last several weeks. Because of the resources and the vocabulary you've provided this season, I was able to identify administrative deception and a safety vacuum. Your show didn't just inform me, it armed me. What an absolutely powerful message to receive.

[Tiffany Reese]

I mean, it's everything we hoped for. The experts that we partnered with this season, not only everything that Dr. Badera shared, but sane nurse Kayla Hartman, that interview about rape kits and what the actual process looks like, and to hear her describe it with so much care was just incredible. Dr. Holland is such a legend. I really admire her work as well as Dr. Cruz bringing in such a different, nuanced perspective. The collective picture of those powerful professional voices and experts really brought so much this season. And we're so thankful for not only the work that they do, but their willingness to contribute. And I believe that's because they really believe in this cause and they know that it does not get the attention that it should. There's a lot of chaos to compete with in this day and age. So even when people do care, there's so much to care about. We just really appreciate their collaboration. Of course, we couldn't do it without the survivors and their willingness to be brave, to speak out, to be so vulnerable and to trust us and to give us their time. It's just the best job in the world, honestly. The fact that we get to wake up and do this work, even though it's really hard sometimes it's really stressful. The blessing of it, the gratitude that I have for the opportunity is never lost on me. And for me, this year, that has really been an area of focus. It's just like gratitude. What a blessing to be able to wake up in these here United States and actually do something where you feel like you're making a difference and contributing to the deconstruction of the patriarchy.

[Amy B. Chesler]

I couldn't ask for better a men.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

Amen.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Foreign.

[Tiffany Reese]

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[Amy B. Chesler]

this is another really powerful letter from a listener. I just wanted to reach out and say thank you for your most recent season 25. I know the season focused on students, however, I am a teacher. This year I had to file a Title 9 against a coworker. I was convinced, like many of your survivors, to do an informal investigation. She goes on to share a little bit more personal information, but wraps the message up with I'm so thankful that you shed light on the importance of a formal investigation and making sure to take the time you need to be able to make decisions appropriately. I know your season just wrapped. I just really wanted to thank you. Wow.

[Tiffany Reese]

What I kept hearing from listeners who I chat with online and from Survivors behind the scenes as well. Listening to other Survivors stories is just the prioritization of branding over the student experience. And what strikes me about when we think about season 25, season 24 and season 23, the harm that can be caused when people prioritize profit over care and doing what's right.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Knowledge is power and all these people listening, even college age listeners, could directly be impacted immediately by knowing this information. I can't wait to keep an eye on those submissions and see what else comes our way because of this season. And just a reminder to anyone listening who might want to submit their story, the best way to do so is going to the website SomethingWasWrong.com and clicking Share your story and submitting it directly through the website.

[Tiffany Reese]

Thank you so much. Some of the other themes that stood out to me from season 25 was the gap between policy and reality. The Title IX system often functions very differently in practice than how it's perceived publicly to be designed. Another point that really jumped out at me is reporting is complex and can carry risk. We heard from so many Survivors that they face such emotional, social, or academic consequences when it came to reporting or others reporting on their behalf, and that that process can be traumatizing. I learned a lot and thought a lot about reporting when it comes to adults, which is not something I had really considered as deeply as Dr. Holland's work. And hearing from some of the Survivors this season really made me realize the different nuances within mandatory reporting. I also feel like a major takeaway was neutrality doesn't always feel neutral and that institutions are often approaching these things thinking that they have to be completely impartial, and that's not necessarily the case. This season also echoes what we've seen time and time again season after season, which is that credibility is frequently questioned in very problematic ways. Survivors are often judged on things based on their communication style after an incident or perceived inconsistencies. We heard about how retaliation and social consequences are extremely real and that Survivors can experience isolation, rumor spreading, community backlash, even being removed from their sport or activity that they love. The impact of these cases really extends way beyond just the Survivor. The effects can continue so long after the process as well, including impacts on their mental health, education, personal relationships, romantic relationships. A couple last few points of things that really stood out to me from season 25 is that institutions may have competing priorities. They have administrative, legal, reputational concerns that they are thinking about and that orchestrated complexity. There are a lot of layers to this. There isn't necessarily simple answers for us as people who are not in the Supreme Court, but Survivor voices are essential for understanding the system, and that lived experience that the Survivors were willing to provide us gave critical insight into how these processes can actually function and areas of improvement. I just feel so lucky to have worked on this season alongside of you. And we cannot thank the survivors and the experts and listeners and our community enough. So thank you. Thank you so much. Switching gears a bit, I'd love to talk a bit about what's new. Personally, for myself, I will say one major cool thing that I got to do since the last update behind the scenes episode we've done is this past March, ABC and I traveled to south by Southwest, and we just had a hell of a time. We were invited to a really cool event with Variety and Google. It was something about being next generation. I don't know exactly, but I know that when I received it, I was like, amy, this may be the last time I receive anything for being young. So we have to go. I could not miss the opportunity to be considered young. Amy was like, are they sure that this is for us?

[Amy B. Chesler]

Next gen us.

[Lauren Barkman]

Okay.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

The skincare routine is working.

[Lauren Barkman]

I just remember getting a text from you guys, and it's Tiffany with Dustin from Stranger Things.

[Tiffany Reese]

Thank you for reminding me that happened. I freaking forgot for a second. Madison McGee, who hosts the podcast Ice Cold Case, she was also at south by Southwest. So we were hanging out with her, and she got me into this movie premiere pre party for the movie pizza party that just came out. And so there was, like, so many celebrity comedians, which, to me are the kind of people that I get really nervous around because I actually follow their stuff. It was one of those things where it was so crowded. You get there and they're like, are you on the list? And then they can never find your name. You feel like you're lying every time that you're actually invited to this event. And then finally they're like, oh, yeah, here you are. Caleb Herron is the first person I freaking see, and he's taking pictures with

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

a bunch of people.

[Tiffany Reese]

And I'm like, oh, my God. And I just begin to sweat.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

And so I literally walked back out to the front, and the security guy's like, are you good?

[Tiffany Reese]

And I was just like, the first person I saw was, like, a celebrity. So I had to come back out here because now I'm sweating, and he

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

starts laughing, and I'm just like, so

[Tiffany Reese]

can I just, like, stand here and you'll remember? And he's like, yeah, you're good. So I, like, stood there for a few minutes, and I was like, tiffany, you can do this. You were invited. So I, like, go in. I'm a huge Stranger Things fan. My kids are obsessed. We went to the movie theater and saw the finale and, like, sobbed like babies. And so I really only had one goal, to see Madison and say hi to her. I got to the back of this tiny, cool house bar place where they were hosting it at, and I, like, turn and I see him, and he's like, at this back bar area where it's not crowded. And I look at him and we make eye contact and I make the face that can only be described as, like, the face you make when you see a puppy.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

And he makes the face right back at me. I, like, took three deep breaths and

[Tiffany Reese]

I just walked up to him and I was like, hey, I'm a big fan. Can I take a picture with you? I really try not to ask people unless it's somebody that I really am, like, a big fan of, just because that's not really my style to bother people.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

But he couldn't have been sweeter.

[Tiffany Reese]

And it was like a publicity type event, so he was very, like, generous.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

There were so many, like, legendary comedians

[Tiffany Reese]

there that I was low key pissing myself. I saw Madison, we talked for a few minutes, and I was like, girl, there are too many famous people. I have got to go. I cannot be here.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

And I left.

[Tiffany Reese]

And then I also got to meet

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

Killer Mike from Run the Jewels, which

[Tiffany Reese]

is one of my favorite rap groups of all time, Legend of Atlanta. And there was this, like, awards thing that I went to, and he happened to be hosting it, and I had been asking around to some people, like, on his team and stuff, and luckily the event was low key enough and they arranged it so I was able to meet him. And I couldn't even talk. He was, like, trying to say things to me, and I was just smiling and nodding and I don't even know. It feels silly. But it's also, like, really cool that there's things in life that can make you that excited too. The fact that we get to meet people that you really love and admire their work is a really cool experience.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

Oh, Alanis Morissette.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Also, that was one of those moments where it was like, am I cool enough to be on the list? But I wasn't on the list.

[Tiffany Reese]

So Spotify had this event and, like, somehow Amy and I got on the

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

VIP list, but then I got left

[Amy B. Chesler]

off in the end accidentally.

[Tiffany Reese]

But they let you use Madison's thank you, Madison again. So we get in, we have the wristbands or whatever. We're in the cool area with the free food and stuff.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

They're like, oh, you can go out

[Tiffany Reese]

and go closer to the stage, and then you can, like, come up to the like, you know, VIP or whatever.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

So we go out, we're like looking around. We're with Sabrina from Two Girls.

[Tiffany Reese]

One go shout out love her.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

And then we going back up to go back inside. And like, the woman would not believe that I was supposed to be there. I like held my wrist out and she was like, no. And then she just stood in front of me and I was like, what's happening? And you and Sabrina just kept walking and I'm like pointing to the wristband and she was like, no.

[Lauren Barkman]

Just the straight no is killing me.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

She not only said no, but she like was standing in the middle of the walkway and I was to the left. How there's kind of two lanes of traffic and she was kind of in the middle blocking. And I like went to the left because, like, surely she sees my wristband. We had no problems anywhere else we went and she was just like, no. I was so confused.

[Tiffany Reese]

And then I finally realized it was because I had so many wristbands on

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

that she couldn't see the one or whatever. But just the way she handled it was so funny. I was like, oh, my God, girl. I know I'm not supposed to be here, but I actually did get a wristband.

[Tiffany Reese]

So anyways, Alanis Morissette was fabulous. She played hand in my pocket. I mean, all the bangers. I've always wanted to see her. She was such a freaking icon to me as a kid.

[Amy B. Chesler]

I will say she was incredible. But for me to see her, I would have had to be on your shoulders.

[Tiffany Reese]

You would have had to stand on my shoulders.

[Amy B. Chesler]

It was wonderful. It was such a good show. I mean, it was very, very cool. It's always fun to go to those audio related events because you know it's going to be good music or good content and sometimes good food, which it was. And you know, a good time to see friends. I was actually telling the kids in the car on the way to school today, just an aside, it tripped me out that I had a friend in the city that just happened to be there at the same time. She lives out near me now. When we went to the hotel for that Next Gen thing, the elevators opened up as we walked into the hotel and there she was, but behind her was Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgwick. And I was like, what is life?

[Tiffany Reese]

Oh my God, I totally forgot about that. And I was like, we have to go.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

I really gotta get on beta blockers or something.

[Tiffany Reese]

Oh, my God. The comedy show we went to, so Madison again came in clutch and got us into this cool comedy showcase at south by Southwest. And we got to meet Sophie Buttle. We actually got to meet her at lunch right before. She is such a hilarious, gorgeous, feminist comedian. That's how I would classify her. But Amy actually knew her work before. I had never heard her stand up before. So we like meet her and she couldn't have been more lovely. And so then we ended up getting to see her that evening. We got to see a bunch of up and coming comedians. It was a special showcase and it was just so cool. I haven't been to a comedy show in person in such a long time that it was just so fun. And she's actually been doing standup comedy since she's 14 years old. She's a Canadian comedian. Check her out. She's definitely going to be a rising star over the next few years. And she's just a hilarious person. And I love just like seeing women dominate. And all of the female comedians we saw throughout the event were so strong and compelling and thought provoking. And it was just so cool to see in action.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

Amy, curious, any other takeaways you want to mention?

[Amy B. Chesler]

It was just lovely to get the time with you and to go and not have like a specific agenda necessarily, except to just enjoy ourselves and network and see friends. It was wonderful to see Travis from wme.

[Tiffany Reese]

He's one of our agents. It's always fun to see the agents. All of their clients are in one place. They're trying to make all of them happy simultaneously with zero sleep.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

They work so effing hard.

[Tiffany Reese]

We're so, so thankful to everybody on our team. It's always great when we get to see them. Habits are weird because sometimes it's not even about the thing itself. It's about keeping your hands busy when you want something to do. That's what I found interesting about the concept of Fume. I tried it and tested it out and as someone who appreciates a good fidget situation, I kind of got it immediately. Fume is a flavored air device designed to help people quit vaping and smoking by breaking that hand to mouth habit loop without nicotine, batteries or vapor. For me, when I want a flavor boost, crisp mint is my favorite. And the flavor is actually a lot lighter. Think of like comparing sparkling water to soda. And the weighted, twisty design makes it genuinely satisfying to fidget with, which is something that I immediately noticed. Fume has already helped over 700,000 people take steps towards better habits. And now it's your turn. Use our code SWW to get a free gift with your journey pack head to try fume.com that's T R Y-F U-M.com and use code SWW to claim your free gift today. Thank you. I travel enough at this point that I've become deeply committed to the art of building a mini capsule vacation wardrobe, meaning fewer pieces, everything mixes and matches, nothing wrinkles into oblivion, and ideally I don't have to think too hard while packing. That's why I genuinely love Quince. Their pieces are perfect for that effortless travel wardrobe where everything works together, feels comfortable and still looks polished. I especially love their dresses and lightweight layering pieces because they pack well, wear well, and make getting dressed ridiculously easy. I also love their size inclusivity which ranges from extra small to 3x. Refresh your everyday with luxury that you'll actually use. Head to Quince.comSWW for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N C-E.comSWW for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comSWW thank you. I'd love to talk a bit about you guys and what's new. Personally, Lauren, you've been working so much, getting so many new clients, always crushing it. I know you've been also sharing a lot of tiktoks lately about your own experience, what's going on in your universe.

[Lauren Barkman]

Honestly, I am just taking it all in right now. I am relaxing, I am enjoying decorating my room, I am enjoying the little things that I haven't been able to do before and just getting my mind

[Tiffany Reese]

right now that you've gotten a little more time. Now it's been what, three years? Do you feel like you're in a different place in your healing journey now?

[Lauren Barkman]

I think it's a little bit of an accumulation of multiple other things that I still feel, but specifically the hurt and stuff that Jess put me through, I'm still dealing with the lingering effects of it. I think I'm still struggling with a lot of things. I'm struggling a lot with therapy and finding a therapist, which you don't really hear people talk about often. That's something that I'm navigating. Trying to be vulnerable with a therapist is really hard and I've already been through a few therapists, so continuing to share these crazy stories that I've been through and my whole life situation, it's a lot.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Lauren, you touched on something very important. Lifting the veil on the process of finding A therapist can be really hard and triggering at times, but it's important to keep looking for the right person.

[Tiffany Reese]

I wish everybody could have my therapist that I have now. I started working with a somatic therapist at the beginning of 2025 and it has been life changing for me.

[Lauren Barkman]

I'd love to hear about that.

[Tiffany Reese]

It focuses more on body regulation and recognizing and reconnecting and understanding how trauma and anxiety and all those things live in the body and how our body is impact by our surroundings. For myself as a now I know neurodivergent person, those elements and learning how to calm my body and comfort my body and make sure I'm not stuck in fight or flight for months at a time. All of the things that I needed help with were really about like body regulation for me. Learning how to also be present and impactful when I need to be and also still taking extra care of myself. And it's just really made me look at how I spend my time, where I spend my time and noticing how the things that I do feel in my body and then reprogramming to make adjustments to either give yourself more comforts or adaptations that you need to be in the settings you desire in a way that works better for you. So like for me, that looks like when I go to Disneyland wearing earbuds or when I'm in a really bright place keeping my sunglasses on or bringing something with me to have in my hand, hands to fidget with or comfort myself. Different things like that that I can do to make the sensory input and things that overwhelm my system that can be comforting and help me take care of myself so that I can be more present and show up in a better way and be more effective. Overall, I could not recommend it enough, especially for neurodivergent people or who people who suspect they might be neurodivergent. Something that she really helps me with, that I've never had with a therapist too is she does a lot of like visual. You close your eyes when you're feeling this emotion and you're in this event or circumstance that's happening. Like if there was to be a physical structure like a statue of you in this situation, what would that statue look like currently and describing that and sitting with that and then talking about what would you like the statue to look like, how would you like to show up? She was helping me with that, with traveling and being on a plane because I have terrible flight anxiety. That was one of the reasons I wanted to re engage with therapy and find a Therapist that I felt like could really help me in a way where I could start pushing myself more. Doing things like the in person events, going on an airplane, being out more physically and not being as nervous through work. You know, I have really life changing opportunities. Things like walk a red carpet and do on camera interviews. We went to the iHeart Awards, Amy and Lily and I, we did a couple photos and I was like, I gotta go. I just, just can't do it. I have an event coming up soon and I'm working with my therapist and really trying to push myself and see if maybe this time I could do one interview. How do I want to show up? What would that look like? Who do I look up to that shows up well, who I would want to emulate internally to give me sort of like power or strength. Some of those techniques that she was giving me really helped me. And so we did the like statue visualization when I was flying out somewhere. The statue of what I normally feel like versus the statue of what I wanted it to be like. And it was really like a simple thing thing, maybe like a 15 minute exercise, but was very helpful to me. It was like a tool that I was able to then take with me into that experience. And I actually did the session right before going to the airport and it was the most successful trip. It was right before south by Southwest and I had the. One of the best trips I've had in a while. So highly recommend.

[Lauren Barkman]

I love that. I love when therapists actually do their job.

[Tiffany Reese]

I know you've had a hell of a time.

[Lauren Barkman]

That's my thing. It's like it's not that I'm finding therapists that I just don't connect with. I'm finding therapists that are ghosting multiple. I don't know if it's just because my story is so like nuanced.

[Tiffany Reese]

Is there a shortage where you're at?

[Lauren Barkman]

Well, I'm doing teletherapy, which is even more broad.

[Tiffany Reese]

Maybe you can do some in person and try that out. I think that telehealth is so great, especially for certain lifestyles, access issues that people have and stuff. But I do prefer in person most of the time. And what's nice is like if I'm traveling, if my therapist has licensure in the state I'm traveling to, we can do phone or zoom. But I think for Somatic Therapy it can really be beneficial to be like live and in person.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Did you find Somatic Therapy through that specific therapist or did you search Somatic Therapy and that Led you to her. This is really intriguing to me and I just want to know, like, how you even got there.

[Tiffany Reese]

Through the work that we do, we come in contact with a lot of research when it comes to modalities, types of therapies, and different methods. Unlike standard mental health therapy, which focuses predominantly on, like, the mind, somatic therapy incorporates physical components such as breath, work, movement, meditation, visual exercises. And for me, just because I have always recognized that when I'm overwhelmed, it's the physical shutdown that happens, I was like, maybe this could be really beneficial for me noticing how many sensitivities I had actually going through my memoir season, talking about things like my reaction to

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

being in restaurants and all these different

[Tiffany Reese]

things after the season came out.

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

Interestingly, a lot of folks, including therapists,

[Tiffany Reese]

were like, hey, have you ever been diagnosed as neurodivergent? Or assumed that I was. And I was like, you know, I've long suspected, but didn't even see doctors

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

regularly enough to like, be assessed or anything like that.

[Tiffany Reese]

Growing up, I think somatic therapy must have been like one of the recommended types of therapy for neurodivergent people.

[Lauren Barkman]

That transitions perfectly into something I did want to talk about, which is the mimicking actions of complex trauma and autism. Apparently they're very similar.

[Tiffany Reese]

What was interesting when I started working with my new therapist was a lot of things that I assumed were just from trauma. I started seeing it as, oh, maybe it's trauma, plus maybe it's trauma and neurodivergency. People have made comments about me having ADHD is another example. I've never been diagnosed with adhd, but I've definitely had people make jokes at me like, oh, yeah, I have ADHD too, or whatever because I'm highly sensitive when I'm overwhelmed or excited or things like that, There can become sort of this hyperactivity that happens in my brain that somewhat could potentially like mimic those sort of ADHD symptoms and what people, like, associate that looking like what I would describe as trying to think. But your brain is ping ponging because you're so fixated on something that is either causing you anxiety or stress and different things like that. So it's very layered and complex. But to anybody out there who is neurodivergent or suspects that they are or just has like a lot of sensory sensitivities, if you were the kind of kid who was really particular about the way you wore your clothes, the things you ate, sensitivity to sound, I would highly encourage you to dig in. And the reason why more people seem to be autistic these days or neurodivergent than ever before is not because there's some secret society trying to broaden autism. It's not because people are just trying to pretend to be autistic or neurodivergent to, quote, be cool. It's because people are having more education and understanding of autism and neurodivergency. There's more information out there than ever. And as we know, when people are educated, they're much more likely to advocate for themselves, receive diagnosis, get care, and have the tools that they need. For a lot of women, specifically, they do not get diagnosed as young women. We heard that a lot throughout season 24. Both young men and women were not diagnosed until adulthood.

[Lauren Barkman]

And that's why I was kind of feeling that way. I've also been through a bunch of trauma. As I've gotten older, I feel completely different in my own body. And I'm curious to learn more about that. And I was just curious what you guys thought about it.

[Tiffany Reese]

I'm certainly not an expert on any of it, but I will say I think as trauma survivors, a lot of those symptoms can mimic each other and ping pong. And it's not about identity to me, it's just about knowing how my body works, learning more about myself in order to take the best care of myself possible. At the end of the day, what's most important is paying attention to the body, the mind, and the surroundings and the way that those things impact and influence us and really set goals for what we want that to feel like, and paying attention to the things that feel safe, the people that feel safe.

[Lauren Barkman]

One thing that I really love about this podcast and that we all get together and talk about this is that we are survivors and our audience and our support get to watch us struggle and navigate these things. So I think that's really cool.

[Tiffany Reese]

Yeah, the human experience is something else. Amy, anything you want to chime in on?

[Amy B. Chesler]

I just wanted to say, Lauren, to speak to, what you were just discussing is that trauma does rewire the brain. And what Tiffany mentioned is so deeply important, no matter what. It's most important to, like, truly know ourselves and learn ourselves and not to be, like, condescendingly older. I am the oldest person in this conversation right now.

[Tiffany Reese]

Though valid.

[Amy B. Chesler]

I'm sure you can attest to the same thing though, Tiffany, is that with every passing year, it's about being more attuned to who we are and respectfully existing in the truest way we can possible to ourselves. I think as we get older, we slough off all the advice that we got as kids that did not fit and does still not fit and will not fit any version of ourselves and, like, refine who we are and the process is just getting attuned to what we need. And I love that you did that for yourself and I love that you researched because it's so you. It's so on brand.

[Tiffany Reese]

Yeah. And it's certainly a privilege to be able to access therapy. And that's not lost on me either because I just did not have that capability when I was younger. I did not have that access. So I have to have compassion for my younger self and what my younger self had access to. Abc, you have so much going on. Both things you can maybe share with us today and behind the scenes, exciting things to come. You've recently done some really interesting interviews on platforms like Soft White Underbelly. You've been busy. What can you share with us about all the stuff you've been up to?

[Amy B. Chesler]

Oh, my gosh. I think I can probably share a microcosm of what truly what's going on. I'm very thankful to Mark Leyta, I believe is the pronunciation of his name at Soft White Underbelly for a really impactful and empowering conversation. I don't think I can share specifically what docuseries I was a part of, but I have actually filmed a couple docuseries that will be released this year. One of the episodes will dive into another side of my family story. My brother's impact on survivors and women and people in general. And the only place that's ever been done is on what came next.

[Tiffany Reese]

Wow.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Yeah, that is exciting. It's not exciting to ever hear these grave stories of survivorship, but it is exciting to see the impact and the validation in continuing to be amplified by these platforms. The other docu series I can share, I got to support a friend in a big project and that was an honor to have my voice included. I brought some knowledge from season 25 into one of them, actually, maybe both of them. Sometimes I like, disassociate in my interviews and I'm like, what did I just say to that question? But I actually believe I brought the term himpathy into both of those conversations. Speaking of the impact of a season, and then, you know, I've been filming and doing other stuff that I can't really share quite yet, but hopefully, fingers

[Tiffany Reese]

crossed, hand, prayers to God, we're in

[Amy B. Chesler]

the throes of everything, but hopefully in the coming months, I'll have a lot to share. I feel like the only platform I do that on at this moment is Instagram. So if you guys want just a shameless plug, if you want to stay abreast of that stuff, find me there.

[Tiffany Reese]

So cool. Can't wait to hear more and cannot wait till you can share more with everybody. Amy, did you want to share the news you got about your brother?

[Amy B. Chesler]

Yeah. A case Update on Season 7 on what came next. I've shared several updates in my brother's journey, but a quick update and a quick little recap for people that don't remember it. In 2021, right after my book was released, my brother had his first parole hearing, which he actually postponed, but first threatened my life at and then requested to be moved prisons. He waved a stack of letters and said he's got family supporting him up north and wanted to move prisons up north. And at that parole hearing, they said, sure, yeah, we can do that. I guess the process of doing that is very, very, very long. So I believe the date was like, April 28th at midnight. I got the email saying he was finally moved up there, which is a very layered thing. The emotions are deep. Got a lot of DMs when I posted that on Instagram. People saying, well, is this good? Is this bad? And I haven't even replied to any of them yet because it's just a lot to process. I guess the perspective on that is it's good because he's farther away from me and my children. I still reside in Los Angeles. That is no secret. Both sides of my family are here. My roots are here. I tear up because this is my home. I have never left it. But I've also never really lived without fear. So, yes, it's good that he moved away further. It's also scary and sad that the system has empowered him to just choose to move closer to family that supports him, which is just mind blowing. So as a survivor, it's just very layered to process those feelings. And obviously, I'm a human live processing and crying about it for the first time. I will say I've had my kids every day since I got that message, and they're at school right now. So I guess having a moment to process, it's a lot, but that is what's going on.

[Tiffany Reese]

Thank you for sharing. We love you so much.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Thank you for giving me the space to do so.

[Tiffany Reese]

Always, always. I hate anything where he gets his way. So it's always a disappointment when it's like he's happy.

[Amy B. Chesler]

I also will say this is terrible. But it's also very layered to receive an email at midnight. The first thing crossing my mind is, oh, my gosh, he's dead. And then I open it, and it's like, no, he's been moved away. And that's good and bad. And it's all the things. His death will kind of end this process for me. And it's not that I actually wish him dead. It's just so many things I'm processing each time I get a message like that.

[Tiffany Reese]

There's never any preparation. It's just there.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Yeah, there's also grief in, like, realizing that that's my brother and that's how I feel about him.

[Tiffany Reese]

One the shockwaves again, going back to, like, the somatic experience when you receive something like that, the physical digestion that you have to do in addition to the processing emotionally. These are the types of things that survivors have to live with on a daily basis that people forget about, not just the event and the immediate after. It is a lifelong recovery for most

[Amy B. Chesler]

of us, and it's also a lifelong criminal justice process for a lot of us who are engaged with it forever. It's almost like the forgotten institutional betrayal or trauma. The grief for the loss of my mother, obviously, will always be greater, but then underneath that umbrella, it's a smaller umbrella, but it's there. All of the nuance of the grief that. That the justice system forces us to face with every notification, every reminder, every parole hearing, every everything. Thank you for giving me the space to talk about it here and also on what came next, because that's our whole mission is just to really, truly represent the survivor experience.

[Tiffany Reese]

Thank you so much for sharing that, Amy. It's interesting, Amy, that you say that about, like you thought it was a death notice, because I was thinking about health stuff the other day, and maybe I'm entering my midlife crisis, but reflecting on how old I am and, like, how many years I've been working on the podcast and what percentage of my life that is. And then I was thinking about, well, how many more years will I probably be living? And I started thinking about, oh, I wonder how long my parents lived, almost kind of assuming that they had died. The not knowing of whether or not my parents are still alive and being curious about that. And so I actually ran their background checks to see if they were still alive, and they are. I will say the number one question that I get asked just by, like, people who I have interacted with about my own season is, have you heard from your parents? Since sharing my memoir season season 16 no, they haven't contacted me. No, I will not contact them. I hope it stays that way. I am at peace with the situation. I have a beautiful life now with so many blessings and my family is vast and comprised of really powerful and kind hearted and empathetic people. I have all of the love and support and care and my needs are met in every way humanly possible. It's definitely a continued journey though. Being a survivor of childhood abuse is going back to that deprogramming mentality, the unpacking of the trauma and stuff. It's often lifelong, but I feel like this year I'm in the best place I've been in a really long time. I definitely do attribute that to finding the right therapist and also making changes in the way I was spending my time. I've also just been on social media way less. I've been off it for like about a month now and I've been noticing how that feels in my body too. I'm still able to be informed through other outlets that are less stressful for my body.

[Lauren Barkman]

I'm always sending stuff to you guys.

[Tiffany Reese]

I don't mind when you send stuff because it's different than doom scrolling. Even with removing myself, I still get like updates on stuff. It's just when I need to know love on the spectrum drama that's happening or when I need access to Klay Thompson memes. There's just certain elements of things that happen on the Internet that I do want to be a part of without the traumatizing doom scrolling elements foreign. So another exciting update for the show is that we won a Webby Award. We found out on my birthday March 31st that we were nominated, which was such a cool freaking birthday present. We won for best documentary podcast and

[Unidentified Guest/Interviewer]

we also received an honorable mention in

[Tiffany Reese]

the crime and justice category. It's just one of those moments where it's like pinch me. It has not even set in yet. We were so honored especially to receive in the best documentary category for me personally means so much as someone who has loved documentaries for such a long time and we were nominated amongst so many other talented shows. It feels like such an honor. Every year the Webbies select a winner and then there's a People's Choice winner and the Webby is selected us for best documentary podcast. But we still appreciate all of you who voted for us in the People's Choice category as well. We couldn't do it without survivors. The guests that come on the show, our team on this call, our audio producers, our agents Everybody behind the scenes, the accountants, everybody plays a role and makes the thing happen. So we just could not be more honored and excited. And this was specifically to recognize the work that we did on season 23 and season 24 during the 2025 calendar year. I am very excited because the awards is on Monday, May 11th. It's right after Mother's Day weekend. And so when I found out we won, I wasn't sure if I could bear the thought of leaving my kids and being away from them on Mother's Day. It's my favorite holiday of the year. I've never not been with my kids on Mother's Day, and there's only so many of those you get until your kids are adults. And so I was going back and forth on it, and then it struck me like maybe they could come. So we started trying to see if we could make it happen with the kids schedules and Michael's work schedule and all that stuff. And we are so. It's my kids third time going on an airplane ever. Their first time going to the Big Apple. Michael's going to attend the awards show with me, and I have my outfit almost all the way picked out. I just couldn't be more excited. And it's such a huge honor. You'll definitely all be there with me in spirit. If it wasn't Mother's Day weekend, I know Amy would be there with me. And hopefully next year when Amy wins, we'll be able to take the whole team there and you guys will be there with me. We'll all be there together in person, but just very, very thankful. Anything you guys want to add on to that?

[Amy B. Chesler]

I am so honored to be a part of the team. It's just such an amazing platform you've built over the years. I think I said at one point, like, 2026 is going to be the year, and it has not proven us wrong yet. So proud, so honored, so grateful. It's also so special that you guys are all going to be doing that together. And the city of New York is like the city of spirit. And to just be enjoying that together that weekend and then leading into the award show and the fact that Michael will be there, just perfect.

[Tiffany Reese]

It's gonna be great. And I think it's really cool to be able to take Michael and the kids on this trip because they are also hugely impactful in this whole experience. They have been there by my side since day one, since the idea literally came to me and I started working on it. I have been making this show as Long as my youngest can remember, that's his whole life. He knows me doing this and it always being a part of our sort of family dynamics, they've gotten to know not all of the things that we talk about and all of the work that we do because it's not all age appropriate, but they do have a sense of the purpose behind the show. They've always been such a huge sense of support for me, and I really, really couldn't do it without them. And on the personal side, they're the reason I do everything. I just want them to be able to soak in this moment, too, because they earned a piece of it as well.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Tell me if I'm wrong. This is how I feel about it in terms of the work. This is all obviously for all the listeners and survivors, but it's for our kids. And it's not necessarily that the content we're making is for our children, but it's to make a better future for them.

[Tiffany Reese]

Yeah.

[Lauren Barkman]

Yes.

[Amy B. Chesler]

And also this might be my trauma speaking, but if God forbid, anything happened to me, they have a trove of my voice everywhere. And I know that's a little dark, but eventually they can listen to it. But it's also for a better future for them. And I'm not even saying that selfishly, it's for your children. It's for everyone's children, too, but damn,

[Tiffany Reese]

I love my kids. Yeah. Happy Mother's Day.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Happy Mother's Day.

[Lauren Barkman]

Happy Mother's Day.

[Tiffany Reese]

Happy Mother's Day, everyone. Next time on Something was Wrong. The breadth of what we've covered on Something Was Wrong over all of these years, it really spans so much of our human experience. We've told stories about emotional abuse, coercive control, gaslighting, domestic violence, sexual violence, deception, fraud, identity manipulation, people living entire double lives. We've talked about harm within families, friendships, communities. But through it all, the through line has always been the same. It's been about centering survivors voices, naming harm clearly and creating space for people to be seen, understood, and maybe feel a little less alone. So thank you guys for being here and for being such a huge part of that. Here's to the next seven years. I'm very excited. Thank you so much to each and every survivor and guest for sharing their experiences with us. And thank you for listening. Something was Wrong is a broken cycle. Media production created and executively produced by Tiffany Reese. Thank you endlessly to our team, associate producer Amy B. Chesler, social media marketing manager Lauren Barkman, graphic artist Sarah Stewart, and audio engineers Becca High. And Steven Wack, Marissa and Travis at WME AudioBoom and our legal and security partners. Thank you so much to the incredibly talented Abayomi Lewis for this season's gorgeous cover of Glad Rag's original song you Think youk from their album Wonder Under. Thank you to music producer Janice JP Pacheco for their work on this cover recorded at the Grill Studios in Emeryville, California. Find all artists socials linked in the episode notes to support and hear more. If you'd like to share your story with us, please head to SomethingWasWrong.com if you would like to help support the show you can subscribe and listen ad free on Apple Podcasts. Purchase a sticker from our sticker shop@broken cyclemedia.com Share the podcast with a loved one or leave us a review. Want to stay up to date with us? Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Something Was Wrong podcast. As always, thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe friends.

[Amy B. Chesler]

Someone.