Rihanna (2:37)

to

Miranda (2:41)

someone.

Host/Tiffany Reese (2:47)

Last time on Something Was Wrong, I

Olivia (2:51)

call my theater ed advisor. She gets back to me and she tells me that this is something I need to bring to Title IX and that's when I got introduced to UCO's Title IX office, he essentially asked me to be a character witness for him since they had called me in right after that conversation, the Title IX office was right by where we were talking, and I walked there and met with the Title nine lady. I told her immediately that he had told me everything and that none of it was true. And she told me that regarding my allegations that his initial response was that, quote, I can't say she's lying. So you'd think, oh, closed case, right?

Rihanna (3:38)

No, I think that Title IX office really took advantage of a bunch of naive girls in a number of ways. And one of them was telling me that it would be anonymous, that Miranda wouldn't see any information that would clue into the fact that it was me who said this.

Miranda (3:57)

It wasn't until winter break when I didn't see him for three weeks. I was really, for the first time that whole semester, given the time to, like, reflect on the implications of her Title IX against him and what that meant for me. Towards the end of my second semester of junior year, and which between Scotland, our contact slowly dwindled.

Host/Tiffany Reese (4:22)

Here's Miranda.

Miranda (4:24)

When I went into my senior year, I was so exhausted from hiding this secret, especially from all of my peers. I was just really uninterested in everything that was going on. I didn't really have fun at parties. I hung out with Olivia less and was just really tired of being at school and having to be around him in any sort of capacity. He was still my acting teacher, so I was still taking classes of his and I was still seeking training from him on the side because I needed him to help me audition for graduate school and prepare for these big things that were coming up after my senior year. And I needed him to write me letters of recommendation. So I was still, like, continuing to contact him in those ways. None of it was sexual or as if we were in a relationship anymore, but we never acknowledged it. He would still try at times. Like, he would text me and be like, I really miss you.

Host/Tiffany Reese (5:25)

Did you ever feel like there was any sort of retaliation by him as you were pulling away?

Miranda (5:31)

There's no giving me bad grades or withholding educational skills stuff from me. He wrote me glowing letters of recommendation for graduate schools and gave me all of the training and support that I needed to perform at these graduate school auditions. The only real bit of retaliation is that my senior year he was directing a play and we did fall auditions for everything. One of my good friends at the time was directing a play that I really wanted to be in, and he knew that I wanted to be in, but they were happening at the same time. And so if I was in her play, I couldn't be cast in his play. I later found out from her, when she found out about our relationship, that he refused to let her cast me in her show. So he insisted that he cast me in his show and he purposefully didn't cast me in a lead role. It's like a Greek show. So he cast me as a part of the chorus, which is the opposite of what I was slated to be cast in my senior year of being in that department. His play that year was an offshoot of Trojan Women. And the entire concept of the play was feminist theater, which is just so ironic. He turned it Into Trojan Women 2.0, written by Charles Mee. And the way that this play was staged is that all of the members of the chorus were prisoners of this make believe kingdom. Almost every single woman of color in the department was in this play. He made us all be prisoners and all of the white girls that were in the department, a lot of them were the royalty members in this show. He would text me a lot throughout the rehearsal process about how beautiful scenes that I was in were or how he needed me to be for the rest of the chorus because I was like the chorus leader. I would email him instead of texting him because I wanted to be clear that I didn't want to speak to him in that way. But I also didn't really have the tools to tell him that.

Host/Tiffany Reese (7:45)

To your knowledge, did he target other women of color?

Miranda (7:50)

The real truth is that there were not a ton of women of color at the university, just in general, but he definitely paid the women of color, I would say, special attention in the vein of being an ally is, I think, how he would choose to describe it at the time. Giving women of color more opportunity for specific things like shows and making sure that they were more represented.

Host/Tiffany Reese (8:20)

Here's Rihanna.

Rihanna (8:22)

Trojan Women was the last show I was in at uco, and it was with Cato. I actually was planning on not coming back to UCO that semester. I didn't have the funds to enroll and Cato offered. I really want to cast you in this role, so you need to be a student, enroll in these classes, and I'll give you a scholarship of this much money and we'll talk to the bursar and make sure you can stay in school. Which I thought was so weird because he and I both knew that I had participated in this Title 9 case against him. And I think it was like a form of cleanup. I need to change Rihanna's mind about this and she needs to know that I'm actually a good person or something. Or I need to have a form of control over Rihanna again. It was a show about sexual assault. It was a show about women in a war torn time and the terror that they face. And then also there were pop musical numbers in between Making light of this situation.

Host/Tiffany Reese (9:29)

And what was that experience like being directed by him?

Rihanna (9:33)

Awful, anxiety inducing, nightmarish. So confusing. I didn't know why I was there. He allowed me to pick a monologue from a different play that we then spliced into the play. The monologue that I did was very focused on sexual abuse. I have an experience of sexual abuse outside of Cato, and that was brought into the play. The monologue that I did was about sexual abuse. I am talking about my own sexual abuse experience and a sexual abuser in front of me is directing me on how to make that performance better. I don't even think now I can process how fucked up that is. I was a 19 year old doing that. I had recently gotten out of a mental hospital. I checked myself in because I was processing sexual abuse that had happened to me as a child. And immediately after getting out of that facility, I am then thrown into rehashing this sexual abuse trauma with someone that has contributed to that experience. I think I'm just at a loss for words.

Host/Tiffany Reese (10:49)

I'm so sorry. It sounds very triggering. What was it like working with Miranda on that play after the conversation that you had about the Title ix?

Rihanna (11:02)

We hadn't been in like a full length play together at that point. I was really excited to work with her. And I think that contributed to the confusion and awfulness that I was experiencing because I would get to hang out with my best friend and then it would be this incredibly triggering and traumatizing material that we're doing. It was so uncomfortable. I remember just constantly being in fight or flight and so terrified of messing up or saying the wrong thing. Now, of course, that makes sense. I had acknowledged in my brain that Cato was an abuser, that he was engaging in this inappropriate behavior and then had somehow like backtracked that in my mind. Actually, he's a director that I want to work with that I feel safe working with. There was just like a disconnect there. It was terrifying and awful and I would not relive that time for any amount of money.

Host/Tiffany Reese (11:56)

And when did you leave the department and what ultimately made you decide to do so.

Rihanna (12:02)

After Trojan Women ended, I just stopped going. There was no like big implosion or big moment of decision. I think I was so burnt out from all that I had been through in the past two years. I just gave up. I was in a financial bind because I could not afford to continue enrolling anyway and I never got those funds from Cato. I think I quit mid semester after the play was over.

Host/Tiffany Reese (12:32)

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Host/Tiffany Reese (16:17)

Here's Miranda.

Miranda (16:19)

Second semester of my senior year, we traveled again. We went to Camp kcactf in Texas. I was so ready to graduate. I was over being in school there. KCCACTF should have been the most exciting trip for me because it was my last one. All of my peers were partying and hanging out and I chose to stay in our hotel room by myself. And I think that that was just an indication into how ready I was to move on and particularly to not have to have him be in my life anymore. And he knew that. But despite that, was still trying to text me a lot. It really at that time grossed me out in a lot of ways because it was so obvious that I didn't want to speak to him in that way and he was still actively trying to press my boundaries. He was the head of the department, so he would show up in outside rehearsals or to my scene design class, which he had no business being in, just to like Pop in and see what's going on. It's a signal that he's still around. I remember feeling just very exasperated by having to navigate through all of this. By my last semester in school, the veil had been completely lifted, and I had no interest in seeing him at all once I had graduated. I graduated in the spring, and then that summer, he would text me quite often and I would ignore him because at that point, I genuinely needed nothing from him. So I chose to not engage at all. That summer, I auditioned for Oklahoma. Shakespeare in the park, and I got cast in a lead in the Tempest. Somehow he found out because he was pretty active on social media, so he could see stuff that I was posting and I was running, like, promotions on this show and stuff. He might have texted me and been like, I'm gonna come see you. But he never really told me when exactly he was coming, So I couldn't mentally prepare myself. And he just showed up. Of course, it's like a public event, so he can come. But it was quite jarring to see him. He talked to me a little bit afterwards. That would have been the last time that I ever saw him at all. Then the fall of that year of 2019, I broke my leg falling off of a scooter. And he found out through one of my friends. He sent me a long text about if I ever need anything to let him know. And he broke his leg once, and he misses me so much and he loves me. I just didn't respond. His attempts to contact me at this time were pretty desperate. He then sent me a long Snapchat message about how he was acting in a film and fell on stage because he wasn't eating or something, and he had to go to the hospital. He's sending me this long message and is ending it by being like, the whole time, I only thought of you. I miss you so much. I love you so much. I hope that you're well. Really trying to make me feel bad for him, I think, because he also sent me, like, a photo of his head bloodied, which is disturbing. Around this time was when I was toying with the idea of filing my own Title IX against him. So I screenshot the message. It's on Snapchat, so you can see when someone screenshots your message. So he knows that I screenshot it. Me screenshotting it, and then him getting the notification. I was hoping that it would send him a clear message to not contact me. And truthfully, I hoped that it scared him. I didn't respond, and I Blocked him on Snapchat, I blocked his phone number, and I blocked him on Facebook, Instagram, and every other place that he could exist in my life. This was probably in, like, September or October of 2019. I hadn't made any decisions about whether or not I was actually going to file with the university or not. But I knew that I probably was going to do something someday because not being in school had given me all this time to reflect on what really happened. And so I screenshot it and kept it because I was like, I think I'm going to need this. At some point in November, I broke my leg. I couldn't walk for three months. By the time that I could start walking, it was March of 2020, and Covid had happened. So I had had six months of reflection to really be alone with my thoughts, which was, at the time, really difficult. In that timeframe, I was seeing everything through a new eye. Finally being able to realize that I had experienced such a, like, manipulative level of abuse was really difficult to process, and I had to do it by myself. I had an excellent support system, but no one knew. I sought out therapy, which I think saved my life in a lot of ways. I had an excellent therapist at the time, and when I started going to therapy, I just went and sobbed for a full hour. It took a lot of courage to even be able to tell this stranger about what happened. I think it took several sessions before I was really able to express why I was there in the first place. I then decided that I wanted to file a Title 9 complaint against him. I didn't go to therapy with the intention of filing anything. I went with the intention of trying to. Trying to make it better. I filed my Title IX through the university. It was official, and it was with the Director of Employee Relations. We had, like, an initial zoom meeting once I filed the Title ix, and she was like, I really want to speak to you about this in person. And so we had a zoom call. And that's when I would have told her about everything that happened in depth. In addition to what I had submitted to them, which was incredibly thorough document. I reported it and typed out a bunch of stuff, listed my witnesses. My therapist was very supportive of this, mostly because filing the Title IX meant that I had to start telling my support system what happened to me. It took so much work for me to even be able to tell Olivia, who had been my best friend for five years at that point. When I first told her and when I was filing the Title ix, I couldn't Even talk to her about the specifics of what happened.

Host/Tiffany Reese (23:11)

Here's Olivia, beginning of the pandemic.

Olivia (23:14)

Spring 2020. It was just like a normal day. She had texted me asking if I wanted to hang out. We hadn't seen each other in a while because of the safety precautions that everybody was taking. She asked if we could go pick up dinner and bring it back to my house. She came and got me, and on the way home, she just casually was like, hey, there's something I need to talk to you about. I immediately got really nervous because I thought she was moving. She then was like, you're gonna have some questions, and I just want you to know that, like, I'm an open book and I will tell you whatever you want to know. And so I was like, okay. She asked, do you remember a few years ago when all that Title 9 shit happened? And I said yes. And she was like, well, all of it was true, and I am filing a new report with the university. I was not as shocked as I would have thought I would have been. I think it made a lot of sense once she said it, and it was not this unspoken thing between us. But I think I had always kind of wondered what their relationship was actually like because I knew they were very close. Not that I ever thought that it was sexual immediately. I was honestly really pissed off at him. It really upset me because I felt like he had betrayed my trust and he had taken advantage of her and some of the behavior where, like, he had tried to isolate her from me because I felt sorry. I'm probably going to get emotional whenever I talk about this. I felt like it was, like, my job to keep her safe, and I'm very, like, protective of Miranda. It really sucked knowing that I was close to it happening but didn't know and couldn't have done something for her. We didn't really talk about it a whole lot more that night, but I remember her telling me that she was relieved that I knew, and she gave me permission to share it with my then boyfriend if I wanted to. Who? We're married now, but he also went to school with us and, like, knew Cato very well. I offered to be a witness if she wanted me to be. And shortly thereafter, I got the email from Title IX asking to set up a time to meet on Zoom. And I wrote out a statement because I just felt so nervous about talking to them. They asked me and Miranda if she wanted to add me as a CO complainant in case that would strengthen her case. I left that up to her and she decided, yes, there's strength in numbers and the more people we have, the better. So I signed on as a co complainant.

Host/Tiffany Reese (25:36)

Here's Rihanna again.

Rihanna (25:38)

We stopped talking about Cato. Miranda and I moved on. And then eventually she came to me and disclosed that she was considering filing a Title IX report with UCO and asked if I would be willing to be a witness. And of course I agreed. I did a zoom interview with them, told them all the same information that I gave them the first time. I don't think I had the text to provide them at that point that I had given in the first Title IX case. It felt like, oh my God, something could actually happen. I'm doing something for 19 year old Rihanna and 19 year old Miranda. I think I was like 21 or 22 at this time. It was a few years later. I was really proud and I think I was really naive and hopeful. I think that happens a few times in my experience trying to protect girls at uco. You know, the first time we filed the Title IX report, Miranda did not feel comfortable disclosing that this relationship was happening. And now she's going to. And again, the adults in my life, they're going to get it right this time. They didn't have all the information and they're going to do the right thing now. And Cato is not going to have access to these young girls. I was really proud of Miranda. That stays true now, but I was just naively hopeful.

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Host/Tiffany Reese (29:26)

Here's Miranda

Miranda (29:28)

after the initial zoom meeting with Title IX was when she sent this email that says I wanted to reach out to provide you with an update on the case. The respondent, which is Cato and I, had a frank discussion where he took some initial responsibility in regards to the concerns. I am meeting with him at length later this week to obtain a better understanding of his perspective and recounting. We have a few things to decide at this point, chiefly whether this moves forward as an informal or formal resolution. The words are imperfect. Both methods have the same low or high level consequences. Really what we're talking about is the process. Informal processes are HR processes where we take undisputed facts and work with senior leadership to determine consequences. Nothing is less serious in this process, however, can move much quicker. The formal Title IX process in this case would include each complaining or responding party reviewing a document of all gathered information and testimonies. With a 10 day rebuttal period. Then I would create a credibility analysis. Finally, a decision maker would determine whether a policy violation occurred and if so, what sanctions or consequences would be involved. After this I had a phone call with her to get a better understanding of what she was talking about with this informal or formal resolution. I mean, I trusted her because it was her job for me to try to trust her. She seemed to be really caring and conscientious of what I was going through. I trusted that she knew what was best because I'd never done this before and she's the only person that I spoke to. She suggested to me that the informal complaint would be the better way of moving through this because it means that things would be resolved much quicker. And she said in this email that one is not less serious than the other, but it can move much quicker. So I chose to file informally, which was not, in hindsight, really the correct thing to do.

Host/Tiffany Reese (31:27)

Here's Olivia.

Olivia (31:28)

Eventually, they asked her if she wanted to pursue an informal or formal Title IX investigation. No one ever told her what that meant. And so we asked the lady, what is the difference between these two things? I will literally never forget the words that she said. She said, if it was my child, I would want swift action taken. And then she suggested the informal Title IX process. She didn't explain what that meant, really. She just implied that it would be quicker and that it wasn't any less rigorous. And that's whenever they stopped giving us the guidance that we felt like we needed. At first, we both felt like they were nailing it, handling our case. They were super communicative, especially with Miranda, like, answering all of her questions. I think she felt way safer than she did in the first Title 9 experience. And that was really encouraging. I was like, I really think they're going to do something about this. And I knew that for Miranda, it was so important that something actually happened this time. And so I was just trying to do the best that I could to support her and help her in any way while also navigating, being back at school in the same department as him.

Host/Tiffany Reese (32:37)

Here's Miranda again.

Miranda (32:39)

The next thing that I send Title ix. After some time to think, I feel ready to allow you to proceed with the HR investigation. Thanks for your guidance. And she said, okay. Her next step is to speak directly with the Dean. She had an appointment with him at 4 and that she would keep me updated. Then I sent her a message in December when I received the letter from the university regarding his discipline. I have the results that the university sent to me December 17th. The purpose of this message is to follow up with you regarding our conversation and your recent report to the university involving a possible policy violation. Specifically, this report involves an alleged policy violation from the current University of Central Oklahoma discrimination and harassment policy. You may access the current copy of this policy at and it gives a link. These allegations are based upon a report that the respondent has participated in grooming and manipulation resulting in a non consensual sexual relationship as well as an environment of favoritism. Per our discussion, the university offers two forms of resolution for reports of prohibited one informal resolution, as described in section 1.5.3A, which involves a variety of informal options for resolving reports and 2 formal resolution, which involves an investigation in review and possible sanctions, if applicable, by the appropriate University manager. As described in section 1.3, the university holds discretionary authority to determine if 1 the nature of the reported conduct is appropriate for informal resolution 2 if the type of informal resolution that may be appropriate is in a specific case and three if a referral to formal resolution is appropriate at any time. Based on our conversation and your desired outcome, I have pursued an informal resolution. A combination of interventions and remedies have been utilized. The University has implemented relative sanctions against the respondent and considers this matter closed and resolved. And then there's a note about retaliation saying that any attempt to penalize or retaliate against a person for filing a complaint or participating in the investigation of a complaint of prohibited discrimination and or sexual harassment, sexual conduct with a student or employee, sexual violence or other sexual harassment will be treated as a separate and distinct violation of this policy. Then it says, miranda, thank you for reporting this matter so that issues like this can be properly addressed. Please do not hesitate to report any further incidents if necessary. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. I can be reached at her phone number or by email. And that was it. That was all they said. So I emailed her. I said, I just received a letter of the final outcome of the University. I'm hoping that you can provide some clarity on what the relative sanctions and remedies are. I understand if this is confidential, but the letter that I received seems to not offer a lot of information for me. She said, I cannot give you the specifics on the actions, but I can confirm there are a number of significant limitations as well as requirements. Interim Dean Waddell took this concern very seriously. The actions number five in total, but some carry multiple limitations slash requirements. And that was it. That was the end of my filing of a Title ix. I was never told what the actions were. I know from people who were still in school there and our old professor Emily, who was involved in the Title IX as Olivia's university advocate, because Olivia was my witness and she was still in school there. She needed to have an advocate for her who was a professor in the department. I learned from Emily that he couldn't direct something specifically or that they were barring him from travel, but they Seemed very minimal. The consequences of his actions, he took some responsibility for that was all the university did. I feel like, how did you feel? I filed this in November and I started seeing my therapist in March of 2020. It took me almost a year of going to therapy every single week to gather the courage to be able to file this and to be able to tell people in my life what had happened. And within a month, my life was the same. His life was, as far as I know, pretty much the same. Nothing changed. That was a really difficult time for me because it took so much of my time and energy to be able to do this in the first place. It took a lot for me to even be able to begin to file this and for them to convince me to file an informal complaint which is clearly incredibly self serving to them because it means that no one really needs to get involved in an official capacity. It was deeply concerning and hurt, hurtful. And then I took on the responsibility of having to reach out to individuals that were younger than me, who I loved and cared for. And I had to tell them what happened to me to try to protect them because the university wouldn't do it. I was trying to avoid that by filing the Title ix. I can't fathom how the university thought that it was at all appropriate to effectively do nothing. It was in a way even more damaging if I would have just decided to try to heal in other ways because this was supposed to be closure for me and it was not. It didn't even begin to come close to being closure. I feel like I was lucky enough to go about this process in a way that gave me a lot of support. Like I was actively in therapy because of this and my therapist helped me draft my complaint and I was able to reach out to her when I needed. And I had the support system of Olivia and Rhianna and people who knew who were incredibly supportive. I can't imagine if that were not the case. I don't know how anyone is supposed to navigate this not with support.

Host/Tiffany Reese (38:58)

Did it surprise you the way that the school.

Olivia (39:01)

It did surprise me. Now I'm not surprised though, because looking back, the way that they handled the first case was not appropriate. And so who's to think that the second time they're going to do any better? We know that it's not appropriate to do that with a student. It's in the handbook at the university for faculty. And also it's just like a total ethical. No, no. For an educator. It's a total power imbalance. It is such a liability for the university for that department. It was shocking that they would know about this and have evidence. She sent in evidence, and we sent in videos of him acting insane at these events that we traveled to, like, being so inappropriate, and they just didn't care. It genuinely felt like they were so unempathetic to the whole situation. In her response to Miranda, when Miranda reached out to ask what sanctions they were referring to, they were so cold and neutral in that response. They said they had imposed what they called relative sanctions on him. And when Miranda asked, they would not tell her what those meant, which was a red flag at that time. I'm pretty sure he was still teaching in person. And they also didn't disclose to me what they meant, even though I was a student at the time. What did they actually do to stop it from happening again? Did he get in trouble? I still don't know to this day what that actually looked like. It just felt like no care had been taken, which was very discouraging because originally that same person that had handled our case was incredibly warm and gave us all of that personal advice about, you know, how she would advise her own child, and she just, like, flipped the script. The university seriously misled us through that process. And it was incredibly frustrating, especially for Miranda, because it took a lot for her to, like, come to a place where she felt ready. And I think she felt very proud of the fact that she was able to come forward and share this after not being able to share what really happened with them back whenever the first case was. So it was just incredibly heartbreaking seeing that happen to her. And it just felt like there was nothing that she could do to stop it from happening to anybody else. It was a really brutal time. She was just very vulnerable and it felt like it got thrown in her face with no mercy.

Host/Tiffany Reese (41:27)

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Narrator/Advertiser (43:14)

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Host/Tiffany Reese (44:18)

When did the conversation about the lawsuit

Miranda (44:21)

Emily Hugh Gater, who was a professor at UCO with Cato, is the one who was Olivia's professor advocate.

Host/Tiffany Reese (44:31)

It was Miranda again.

Miranda (44:33)

Sheila took on our case

Host/Tiffany Reese (44:36)

and Sheila

Miranda (44:37)

was the only idea because Emily was really frustrated and upset and she had to continue to work with him at school. I was on board because I had no resolve from the university. I spoke to Sheila. I emailed her in May of 2021. She had been in contact with Emily. She had told Emily to tell all of us to make a victim statement and add in all of my documentation. So I did. She said, thank you. They're reviewing it. We'll be in touch as soon as possible. And then she said, some of the complainants graduated in 2019, so we're running into a statute of limitations issue. I called her, and that's when we agreed to to do the lawsuit. After speaking to Sheila, she suggested that adding on the rest of the complainants would help our suit. So all of my witnesses who I had cited in my Title IX case, Morgan, and all of Morgan's witnesses were now involved. We had a few zoom meetings with Sheila about the process of Title IX and the implications of our suit. We all provided them documentation, and they submitted the complaint in May of 2021. She had told us that the media might pick it up because the media picks up things like this. But I was not in any way prepared for it to be picked up so quickly. I mean, I think it was the next day after she had submitted the complaint that it was picked up by news agencies. UCO students now upset with what they claim is the university's lack of response to allegations against a theater professor.

Narrator/Advertiser (46:21)

A group of women now suing the

Miranda (46:22)

school after they say Cato Bus harassed them and even with one student, maintained a sexual relationship.

Narrator/Advertiser (46:30)

News 9's Ashley Holden talked with former and current students now sharing their experiences.

Miranda (46:36)

The lawsuit claims Buss admitted to some of the allegations, and this had been knowingly going on for years.

Olivia (46:42)

It says Buss would choose a select freshman or two that he considered favorites.

Miranda (46:47)

He would give the women special one on one coaching, invite them to trips where sometimes underage drinking was involved, and

Olivia (46:53)

go out of his way to find them. Financial help.

Miranda (46:59)

The media component. It was probably like one of the worst days of my life. It was equally as traumatizing as everything that I had experienced up to this point. I was at work and I was interviewing for, like, a lateral move to a location in New York, and I had had an excellent interview with the store leader. We talked about the timeline of my move, and I was so excited. And I looked at my phone and had hundreds of messages from everyone who was on the suit and people that I went to school with and my friends. I had a panic attack at work. It was really terrible because it was no longer just something that had happened to me. It was now. People that I went to school with, everyone had an opinion, and people were posting about it on Facebook, talking about how creepy he was, and they always knew something was weird about him. Someone started a fucking Change.org petition to have him fired. And everyone is posting online with all these opinions, and they're my peers. Like people who I saw every day for four years straight. Maybe two people reached out to me directly. It was like a really bizarre thing because it was something that I had protected for so long. By the time that this came out, it was in 2021, and a lot of this stuff happened to me in 2017-2019. It was such a private part of me for a really long time, and I intended to keep it that way. And then it was circulated against my will. That was awful. Firstly experiencing it and then processing what happened to me and then deciding that I wanted to do something about it. So then filing the Title IX and being re traumatized by being failed by the Title IX system. And now I'm being traumatized again in a different way by all of my information being out there when I didn't want it to be. I couldn't talk about it. I couldn't make my own Instagram post because I was in the middle of a lawsuit. I had no voice. I drove to Olivia's and we just commiserated. We were afraid to talk about it over text because we didn't know if they were gonna subpoena our text records. So much was taken away from me, and all I was ever trying to do was find closure. It was really confusing to see people talk about how believing women is important and how brave we are and how brave I am and fuck Cato while also not reaching out to us. No one actually cared to check in on us on how we were doing. People would text me and be like, I'm so sorry. I knew that he was such a creep. I can't believe we all let that happen. It was so unhelpful. It's just a very weird feeling to watch everyone talk about you online. People were supportive, but they didn't quite nail what it means to be actually supportive and to really, actually advocate for the victims of abuse. It was also weird to see people talk about how brave we were and how brave I was. But I never once really felt brave at all. I was very scared for a number of reasons. I was terrified of my family seeing this online. I didn't have any control over who knew what happened to me. It was just a really, really weird time because I also was excited about the possibility of trying to enact some change.

Host/Tiffany Reese (50:45)

If listeners should find themselves in that position, how could they be more supportive towards survivors? That's impactful in a positive way.

Miranda (50:53)

There's such a fine line between like advocating for someone because they need to be advocated for online and self servingly sharing stuff because you want your experience to be shared, which is how I felt. A lot of time people just wanted to have their moment of talking about how creepy he was so that they could garner some attention. But mostly I would say like, just text your friends if your friend is experiencing something like this. Tell them that you're thinking of them. Tell them that you're there to listen to them if you want them to listen or ask them what they need. I was so vulnerable because I couldn't speak on my own and I think if people had, instead of posting about it on Facebook, had asked me how I was doing, it would have just made it so much easier.

Host/Tiffany Reese (51:48)

Next time on Something Was Wrong.

Olivia (51:50)

I think it was the lawsuit that made me realize more that it wasn't just Cato that had failed us, it was a lot of people, people that let us down and I thought that that was going to change.

Host/Tiffany Reese (52:09)

Thank you so much to each and every survivor and guest for sharing their experiences with us and thank you for listening. Something Was Wrong is a Broken Cycle Media production created and executively produced by Tiffany Reese. Thank you endlessly to our team Associate Producer Amy B. Chesler, Social Media Marketing Manager Lauren Barkman, graphic artist Sarah Stewart, and audio engineers Becca High and Steven Whack, Marissa and Travis at WME AudioBoom and our legal and security partners. Thank you so much to the incredibly talented Abayomi Lewis for this season's gorgeous cover of Glad Rag's original song you Think youk from their album Wonder Under. Thank you to music producer Janice JP Pacheco for their work on this cover recorded at the Grill Studios in Emeryville, California. Find all artists socials linked in the episode notes to support and hear more. If you'd like to share your story with us, please head to SomethingWasWrong.com if you would like to help support the show. You can subscribe and listen ad free on Apple Podcasts. Purchase a sticker from our sticker shop@brokencyclemedia.com, share the podcast with a loved one or leave us a review. Want to stay up to date with us? Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Something Was Wrong podcast. As always, thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe friends.

Miranda (53:42)

Someone.