← Something Wrong With The Podcast
Something Wrong With The Podcast
SWWP #35 - Charlie Kirk's Killing: What Should We Expect Next? (Feat. Mom)
01:11:26
Loading summary
Transcript141 lines
- [00:00]
A
Nothing wrong with the pussy. Nothing wrong with the pussy. Nothing wrong with the pussy. That's my slate. All right. Well, I'm home. Welcome to episode 35, Something Wrong with the Podcast. I'm at my parents home in upstate New York for a good reason. My mom is opposite side me off camera. She does not want to be on camera. Dad is in bed after a hard night of celebrating. I'm home because my dad got inducted into our local hall of fame for basketball and track. A resume that spans every reason to get inducted into any hall of fame, but this was, in this household a long time coming. So I wanted my mom to talk about the state of the political climate in the world, but lead with something light. So, Ma, what you think of the ceremony and tonight's festivities?
- [00:57]
B
I think, I think it was wonderful seeing your father finally after all these years. About 56 years, give or take. That's been a long time coming, which is what he led with. He. He quoted Sam Cooke's song and everybody seemed to appreciate it. But it's nice to see someone finally who's healthy still and clearly here on the planet get acknowledged for the, the, the feats that they were able to achieve when they were in high school and in college and even after college. But it was very impressive and moving to hear the backstories about the athletes, especially some of the much older athletes. We were just Talking about the 1958 class of wrestlers at this particular high school. That of the. How many were there in that picture, you think?
- [02:00]
A
Or so on the team. And there's at least there could be more that are still alive. But in the building tonight, there were four of them on stage. So.
- [02:07]
B
And they're about. We figured out probably in their mid-80s. And they were very emotional, all in good ways. But it was just really.
- [02:16]
A
Yeah.
- [02:17]
B
Moving to see that.
- [02:18]
A
I don't want to dwell too much on it because I kind of want to get into everything. But the one thing, the one guy that was to me I learned the most about was most impressive was there was a guy that was from Ireland. His parents left him there. He then immigrated when he was 9, had a lifelong resentment against his parents. Lost a lot of family and friends in the community in England where he grew up to the Titanic. Saw a friend of his get shot in the streets and then went on to do yard work, shovel coal, get a track scholarship at Stanford, and then got recruited by the football team to play at Stanford and then got. Then recommended. He played under, by the way, the coach at Stanford, Pop Warner Who I did not know. I just thought it was called Pop Warner. I should have put two and two together. Didn't know that youth football was named after this man. And then got recruited, recommended by Mr. Warner. Pop Warner Coach Warner to play under. What's his. The founder of the Green Bay Packers, Lambo. Whatever his first name is. So this guy's just played with. Under historical figures his whole career. Pretty interesting stuff. Played professionally in 1939 in the NFL. Like, I don't know, just. I learned a lot. History is fun, especially when it ties into, you know, dad's legacy. And it's cool to, like, see plaques and receive. It's great to hear from his peers and people that admired him. But also, like, selfishly, these are things that I'm gonna want, you know, at some point in my house or my apartment or like, whatever. Like, I. These are things that I love. And they did a bronze bust of his head that'll be permanent in the high school that I attended. Not that I plan on, you know, going there all the time, but it is nice. Like, if I'm home and I just want to stop in there and I'm gonna want to see it, it is a big deal. I used to go there and see all the legends, some of which my dad played with, that have been on that wall for years. So to go back there and see my dad up there is going to be pretty cool. So, yeah, it was a great night.
- [04:18]
B
Wonderful night.
- [04:19]
A
Yeah, we ate well, had a lot of family there and friends. But while everything is good and fine on that front, there's a lot of civil unrest and uncertainty going on in the country, and I didn't know what else to talk about. I don't think it would be appropriate to come in here. And I tried to stay away. I think people that are listening to the show know that I've stayed away from politics for a few episodes, leaned back into the music stuff. There's been a lot enough, certainly a lot going on there, which I'll save for, I guess, for another episode. But the tragedy that happened last week, September 10, in Utah, Utah University, with Charlie Kirk's public assassination. I want to start with. No one deserves what happened to Charlie. I would assume you also, of course, are far more empathetic on certain things than I am. So that, to me, I know, goes without saying, but I want to let you say that as well. So. Yes, but I'm always interested in. You have to look at things from two ways. What led to stuff like this, to have that for this to happen. And what we can predict will be the fallout of situations like this and how things will are politicized to get here and how they will be politicized moving forward to seemingly, from my understanding, not make anything better, it seems like. And I truthfully don't even want to speak too much about Charlie and the awful thing that happened to him. I don't honestly care to speak about his legacy. I want to speak more about the political climate at large. And what I'm seeing is with. I don't even really need to name people, obviously, you could say Trump, Vance, whomever. Vance, I believe, said today, he filled it for Charlie Kirk on his podcast and said something along the lines of, these are our enemies. Like, we know who the voices of the left are. They're. They're like, they're. It's more of a call to action rather than like a call for respecting free speech and like, basic civil liberties. I don't know if you've seen this. There's been a movement to dox people that have, you know, maybe made a comment or posted about it or made. Made, you know, spoke about his death in jest. And they've. People have been getting, you know, canceled, you know, just kind of publicly scrutinized.
- [06:47]
B
Losing their jobs, Their jobs.
- [06:49]
A
And I, I think I don't. I want to focus more on the. I don't know, there's so much to cover, I guess, with that, the reaction from the right in the moderate online foot soldiers to go into action and get people fired. It's just, it's the criticism for me on that is like, it's convenient when it plays into your hand. These are the people that, you know, scream free speech, scream, you know, don't take my rights, all that stuff, and are sweet sweeping across the digital world looking for people to cut at their knees and end their lives and ruin their whole existence. So I guess. I don't know if I have a question. I guess it's more of like, it seems like the same way the left does it too. I'm not here to just chastise the right, but it's like we cherry pick what movement in what version of the Constitution or what message that opposes and can vilify the other side. And we really lean into that to get, you know, to drive home that we're the good guys and no matter what situation it is. So in this one, it's like, well, why are you celebrating the death of someone? Which is completely understandable and like, you know, taking it's ironic that the extreme right that calls for a lot of violence is now playing the empathy card and saying, have you no soul? Have you no heart? When Alex Jones, you know, spent a career kicking in the backs of calling Sandy Hook murders a hoax, saying that those kids are crisis actors, and then he's getting on doing a direct to cam thing in his car saying we need to, we're all Charlie Kirk. We all need to feel for gun violence and these certain victims, which is, I know, laughing in the face of all the people. He celebrated about getting shot and killed. Not just to talk about him, though. You're also seeing on the left side people are saying, you know, digging up old tweets, you guys celebrated, look at the five year anniversary of George Floyd being sober. And now people are feeling like they can also make those jokes on Charlie Kirk. So it's just, it's, it's mud slinging at the greatest and I don't know what, I don't have a freaking question. I guess these are just things I've been living with in my head and I haven't said them out loud. So I, and I truly have. We haven't spoken about this. You basically called me and said, don't say anything stupid, right? And then I said, you're right because I've gone through a mixed reaction of again, not agreeing with the action that was had. But I can also understand how something like that happens. Not because I think Charlie Kirk is unique in many ways, but this has happened many times before. So this isn't new. And Charlie Kirk himself was one of the biggest advocates for the second Amendment. And I know people are digging up his old quotes, old tweets, old videos. One of them, I don't have the exact words, but being along the lines of this is the price we pay as Americans to have guns is every year you're going to lose people to gun violence. That's the price you pay us to live free in this country. So the very person that would is a victim of a terrible crime would advocate for such a crime and has in the past. So where do you know what is, what do you think is the best thing for this country? From that, from what we just saw moving forward into like the next few months and obviously the next election cycle.
- [10:18]
B
Really, it's a good question. And of course, you know, I don't have an answer because I think there's something else. I think that's a really important question to ask and probably people that are much more knowledgeable than I am about the landscape of where we are now politically. But I guess I've been thinking a lot about, because I think you hit on something earlier about the mudslinging and taking what angle best serves what our agenda is. So we're thinking a lot less about finding the solutions to be able to unite again as a nation and unite within and also have healthy dissent. We can. That's the United States that I grew up in. And I was trying to think about who came the closest to the kind of I, you know, I'm going to say vitriol, I'm going to say hate speech because if you're on one side and you're listening to the things that Charlie Kirk said, it would, you know, would rub people very much the wrong way because again, he was touching on people and groups of people that were marginalized to begin with. And so I'm thinking of a couple people when I was growing up.
- [11:56]
A
Yeah. Who were those people? When you were.
- [11:58]
B
Yeah. So, you know, I grew up in the late 50s. I was born obviously at the very end of the 50s and the 60s were the time when I was 60s and 70s. So George Wallace was the governor of Alabama.
- [12:12]
A
Heard a lot about him.
- [12:13]
B
Yeah.
- [12:14]
A
And he was, he was a former kkk.
- [12:17]
B
Yes.
- [12:19]
A
In the kkk, like pretty high up in the kkk.
- [12:22]
B
Absolutely. And the KKK wasn't something that, you know, it was a, it was considered a fringe organization. It was very, it had its rich history in the south, but make no mistake, in the Northeast and all over the country there were, from where we stood and the, the, I grew up in the Northeast, so we viewed the KKK at the time as, you know, they were a fringe group and they wanted to, you know, they did a lot of harm to a lot of people and they killed people. There were lynchings that were done and they targeted, you know, people. We were living it. We would hear about these things on the nightly news, but quite honestly, we had, there was leadership in our government, the federal government and inside the White House. No matter whether it was a Republican president or a Democratic president, that leader spoke from the premise that these organizations, we don't support them, we don't want to legitimize them at all. And we as a nation, we pride ourselves on being able to have discordance, to have to not see things eye to eye. And that's the strength of the democratic process. Have there always been haves and have nots? Has there always been systems? Our systems have not benefited many and, or just a few. These things have Existed. These imbalances have existed. But the level of. Is it hatred now, for lack of a better word?
- [14:10]
A
I think. I don't think that's a stretch to say. I think you're right. I think you're. What you're saying is like, there was always a common. The goal was always to preserve democracy and to, like, protect difference. A matter of difference approaches, but to preserve the foundation of what this country has found. It seems like we're so far removed from the like now when we speak about the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, it's purely used as like a blanket statement to weaponize whatever statement you're about to say.
- [14:40]
B
Exactly. When. Before it was considered sacred.
- [14:42]
A
Yeah. Yes. And it was like, if you're bringing it up like, this is we. It's more like a restore to order thing. Whereas, like, now it's used as, like, well, second, you know, what if the Constitution says this. So I'm gonna, you know, I can do whatever this like. Or I can, you know, use this to say this or whatever.
- [14:58]
B
Or the. To hear them say, well, you know, the big debate, is the constitutional living document or is it, you know, codified and set in stone and you can never change the language. I don't know. I'm not a scholar of this stuff.
- [15:11]
A
Historically, it's been a living document. I never understood that, that whole, like, people that are so.
- [15:18]
B
Well, the call to bear arms, the Second Amendment.
- [15:21]
A
But it. But the Constitution's been amended before to, like, fit, like the slavery, like, you know what I mean? Like, we've done things that have added things to the.
- [15:31]
B
Yes, that's true. And you're right. In the 1800s, after the Civil War, you're right. There were changes that were made. And I want to say something about, you know, wherever there are humans there, There will be some love. There's corruption. You can't get around it. And even with corruption, the Constitution was always the. It was always the golden book. We go back to, you know, to say, well, let's get back to what does. What does the language of the Constitution say? And we had a Supreme Court that always held that high in the highest regard, and we had a president that knew his boundaries around what he. Where he could stretch and where he couldn't. And I don't feel that that's.
- [16:23]
A
That's what's been lost. Trump puts the greater benefit of him in really just him and the people that he is choosing to support based on whatever month it is over the good of everyone.
- [16:40]
B
And because if you don't have even if you have disdain for pockets of the population, their right to have certain things that are outlined and preserved in the US Constitution is as important as anybody else's right. And that's lost on us now I believe. So Charlie Kirk had a right to and you're right, I don't want to really talk about him but clearly he had a right to say what he would say because he, he exercised his right. Was it, you know, how did I feel about it and how did a lot of people feel about it? You know on one side people loved it, another on the other side it was, it was hate filled. So again this is what a democracy I believe allows for that kind of incongruence, you know and that should be allowed to coexist.
- [17:43]
A
I, I don't think. Yeah, I mean obviously a lot of what he said a lot of the, the this is the thing and I think there's a very clear distinction between the two. It's like what people you know actually it's not even worth bringing that up but it's, it's basically he exercised. He basically did everything correctly in terms of executing how he conducted his messaging. I think in terms of even digitally he was innovative and brilliant. I think in the inciting divisiveness and knowing how powerful that is online and digitally. He targeted a demo that is under educated but extremely passionate as someone that is an amazing speech orator and can argue well and eloquently. He targeted young know hungry woke college kids and which produced a lot of amazing clips and made them look stupid and in him look like the guy that was saying the right things because these kids are maybe have two college credits to their names and this guy started a network like a media network, you know so it's like me going to play basketball against fifth graders. It's like come on like that give them time, you know. So but that being said yeah like I clearly do not agree with most of what he said what bothers me and again not even to speak about anything that he said in particular single out quote even though you could just throw a lot of what's happening back in the people of this whatever he not him the extreme other right pundits that are using this as an opportunity and I think brilliantly by the way. I'm not not this is the thing. This is why I my love and hate for politics are so intertwined because what they're doing I hate but I think it's genius what they're martyring him and they're Saying all he was ever doing was trying to, you know, exercising his free speech. All he ever wanted to do was just talk to the other side. Which is like, yes, in practice, that is what he was doing. But that doesn't excuse the things that he said. And. Yeah, what's the real motive and how harmful are the things that he's saying? You know, saying that the Civil Rights act was a mistake. Saying that if I have a black pilot, I think they're all under qualified. Like saying that, you know, women basically just should shut the up and be like, you know, a wife and. But then at the very end of everything, he would just always find the center and say, God, you know, find God, God, God, God. And that's always like the. He's a great guy, family man, has a kid. A lot of bad people have kids. I don't know why we keep bringing that up as a reason to excuse everyone's wrongdoings and erase their moral, you know, the, the wrongs they've done morally is because they have children. You know, but the, It's, I think the fallout of this. I said this to some friends and I feel comfortable saying this here. Charlie Kirk, the incident that happened to him is far more powerful to whatever movement he was trying to accomplish.
- [20:48]
B
Yes.
- [20:49]
A
If he were to go on this, what was it, 10, 11 college campuses and do this, like turning Point, he might have gotten three or four viral clips. It would have been a big deal. He sold a lot of tickets, drew a big crowd. He would have been fine financially and probably done some good messaging for him and his audience. This. What happened to him, as unfortunate as it is, he being alive would have never. It accelerated everything. And it also, it. I mean, I'm seeing all these posts and you know, my, my kid. And again, it could just be like grifty, you know, Indian men, honestly, that are running these burner accounts, which is insane that people are really falling for this stuff from like, you know, foreign governments. But saying like, you know, my kid found a Bible and he said he wants to dedicate his life to what Charlie Kirk believed in. It's like all those things that are basically just like pushing the. But it's genius. It's like you're, you're, you're finding the good and pushing that agenda in his name. So now it's like every college campus should be called like the Charlie Kirk Free Speech hall or something like that. And it's you. This has done so much more for his movement in the youth movement of conservatives than, you know, A few, you know, to a couple court tour dates in October would have done. I mean it sucks. It's awful to say, but in the, the right or masterful, masterfully pushing this hero. He's, he, they, they're saying he's Martin Luther King, he's Malcolm X. They're, they're doing that and it's as, it's, it is insane, but it is brilliant for them to do that.
- [22:27]
B
When you, when you say that it's brilliant, are you coming at it from a marketing.
- [22:31]
A
Yeah. There's no other side to look at it from. This is the thing that the left always miss is even in moments like this when they've openly, you know, disagreed and disavowed everything that the Charlie Cook stood for and said. I'm. Now they, they, they have their tail between their legs. They're kind of bowing to the Republicans and not as extremely propping him up as they are, but they're, they're speaking very highly of him and doing this whole like, well, we got to be the bigger people and you know, defend. But like I said earlier, I think you can say what happened is terrible and this is a tragedy. This should never happen to, to anybody, no American, nobody anywhere in the world. You shouldn't just get shot for speaking or just for existing in other parts of the country, but we don't care about that. But you can still be very stern on the things that that man said and critique him for what he said on his time on Earth. And I think the left has like abandoned that and they're letting the right have this moment of like, you know, putting him on this Mount Rushmore with very, you know, left. That's the thing that the right are brilliantly doing is they're just sandwiching next into him next to civil rights leaders and like left, you know, pillars of activism because they can, because he was killed the same way. Say something about it. Tell me that he's not. What did he do differently than Martin Luther King? He used his voice, he spread a message. He got shot. That's. I mean it's brilliant. It's, it's infuriating, but it is very smart of them.
- [24:15]
B
So you know what I think? I think also there's, maybe there are discussions and I'm just not aware of them because, you know, I'm really, I'm trying to stay off yet admittedly I've.
- [24:30]
A
Been on my, I've been doom scrolling and consuming way too much of this content. It is, it's not okay how much I've I mean, the day of the incident, I think I saw every angle of it, and I'm so. It's sad how numb I am to that kind of content.
- [24:47]
B
I think that's. It's the world of social media that we live in. But I think that I don't know the answer to this. I'm certain there are scholars and people who just do understand and know the difference. At what point regarding the First Amendment, at what point does free speech, you know, I know free speech allows for hate speech, but at what point does hate speech, hate speech, excuse me, become, you know, incites violence? Or at what point do we say this has crossed over from hate speech to now, you know, inciting, you know, anarchy or murder? Because there was a. There were two school shootings the day that Mr. Kirk was killed, and then the next 48 hours after that, there were some other, I believe, you know, eruptions that were violent or somewhat violent. But I just don't know how far does the First Amendment allow us to express ourselves without then, you know, it's that old shaggy. It wasn't me or. I don't want to take responsibility for what happened. I said what. I said what people do with it, that's on them.
- [26:22]
A
But I think the answer to what you're asking is that comes when the country is more united.
- [26:27]
B
Yes, that's.
- [26:28]
A
So to the KKK thing, like, the Republicans and the Democrats agreed that this is not. We can't do this. We have to end this.
- [26:37]
B
And it didn't mean that as years progressed, we didn't find out about some of the folks who.
- [26:41]
A
For sure. Oh, yeah, of course, your congressman is, you know, putting on the hood at night and parading around town, probably on.
- [26:48]
B
The dim site, too.
- [26:49]
A
Who knows? The local police force is getting greased by. But at least in.
- [26:53]
B
In.
- [26:53]
A
I'm not excusing that ever. But at least it seemed like, what am I? What am I? The term I'm about to use, like, old school racism. It was done in, like, even. There was, like, a level of. It's ridiculous. There's a level of, like, class and decorum to that. Like, it was done in secrecy. You know what I mean?
- [27:13]
B
Like, kind of crazy.
- [27:14]
A
I'll work my desk job, I'll sit next to a bunch of black guys, and then I'm gonna go out at night and, like, we're gonna chase a couple around town, maybe, like, you know, throw a brick through a window them on the weekends. But now it's like, yeah, the.
- [27:29]
B
But those people, if caught, Julian, I Don't mean to interrupt you, but if those people, if caught, I'm not talking about like a small Podung town where the, the judge is also the police chief was also the minister, but in, in areas where, where people could be caught, they could be brought to.
- [27:49]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. If caught, you go through the legals, you're fucked.
- [27:54]
B
Right? Yeah, for the most part. I mean, and I, you know, it kind of goes back to the days of, you know, even the most conservative, conservative Republicans had, would at least be outspoken enough to say, we don't, we wouldn't call them fine men, fine people, you know. Yeah. Right. So I, I, we've lost that.
- [28:26]
A
Well, my argument is that that's encouraged now. To be the extreme, to be the, the physical responder to, you know, to be the Kyle Rittenhouse is rewarded. You, you get a podcast. You, you get welcomed on Fox and Friends, you're heralded as a hero, you write a book. Like, to be the person that acts rather than just speaks, is celebrated. And like, you get kind of, if done right against the right group of people, you become a correspondent, you become a frequent guest as a news anchor. Like.
- [29:06]
B
And so is this the dark side of social media? Because at what point does social media intersect with, because in many ways, social media has allowed, has taken the, you know, has unveiled areas of life that perhaps are, need to be unveiled, need to be discussed openly. For example, people who, you know, we used to think that seeking out mental health services, unless he was it taboo, you couldn't talk about that stuff. Now we're, we're so much more open as a society, and I think that social media has responsible. Social media allows for that kind of discourse. But then there's the, you know, there's the dark side to everything. There's a good and a bad. It's the ying and the yang. So where you're saying that these people or this, these leave movements that push a narrative that, I mean, these are.
- [30:09]
A
People that are lost. These are people that are lost and want to be told what to do. So I guess my, my grip, my broader question is like, when has Trump called the dogs off? When has he really, like, actively said, as a country or as a, you know, Republicans over here, Democrats over here, we need to, let's take a timeout. Collectively, he's never, ever tried to diffuse any political violence or any divide in this country. Even his weird words about the Charlottesville thing were so, like, he's never just explicitly said, hey, that's a, except for Kirk, obviously, for Obvious reasons. He's never just explicitly been like this was a tragedy. We can't let it happen. If what in fact happened kind of pushes his agenda.
- [30:59]
B
Right. And I'll tell you, I mean we just had the, the, the elected officials in Minnesota. Right. Who were murdered along with their family dog. And then you had.
- [31:11]
A
And he dismissed this. Are you going to go to their services? Are you gonna. He goes. He bit. Why would I do that? That was he more or less. No. Which is not denouncing like he. There's no effort to balance his approach.
- [31:27]
B
Right. Or balance his approach to. Well, you know, and, and the, the senator and his wife who were also shot but they survived. There was no effort in that whole horrible situation.
- [31:40]
A
I mean, what happened to Pelosi's husband?
- [31:43]
B
Yeah.
- [31:46]
A
Trump Jr. His son posted a photo of underwear a tighty white. He's in a hammer. It's my Halloween costume. Like.
- [31:58]
B
So do you think that what's responsible for that do you think or what's promoted that. Did it really start with Donald Trump?
- [32:06]
A
Didn't start with Trump. I don't think so. But I just think it got. It didn't start with Trump. I think it got rewarded by Trump. And I think this, I think this. It's there they're so intertwined. This. The, the, the, the. The lame duck. We're losing our. The men of our country where America's becoming so soft. Everybody's a liberal cook who. Everybody's got blue hair and pronouns like. I think it's their version of like restoring this lost version of what this country was so to be the seemingly. Which is so it's such a lame duck argument because it's like we're the counterculture. Well, you're not. Trump's the president. You have majority in the Senate and Congress. You, you did it. You, you Supreme Court. It's yours.
- [32:58]
B
It's their world.
- [32:59]
A
So. But still the Republicans are so good at playing the view victim. So they still have convinced in and I think it's brilliant because they're, they're convincing straight white men that whatever shortcomings are happening in their personal life is not due to nothing that they can achieve or something that they lack. It's in fact the system that's keeping them down. So it's like even though we run all the homes, we have all the votes all that well, it's still like the greater major broader culture of liberal and America that's the fault of the. Why you're not succeeding. So that's who you should be. It's not the fault of you the white man. That'd be insane. You're white. You should be the CEO. You should be.
- [33:42]
B
You know, you should.
- [33:44]
A
Yeah. You should do whatever you want. So it, I think when you don't have those things and you're looking as most people do in micro situation, everyone looks in some way. Way when they're, when they have shortcomings to place blame. Trump's just telling them where to blame. Like he's giving them the place to point the finger. And sometimes people act. You know what I mean?
- [34:08]
B
It's like, and you know that, that playbook, that's a strategy and that strategy has been, was executed many times in the past.
- [34:15]
A
Yes. But nothing new.
- [34:17]
B
But here we are now facing this.
- [34:19]
A
I mean that that's, that same strategy is used for good. What like, you know, the civil rights movement, the bus riots, like the walkout stand it like all these things when done right can be used for good.
- [34:36]
B
If you saw it for good. If you thought the civil. Because we're hearing from, you know, I'm always amazed at my age to hear someone in their 20s or early 30s, 30s even say that the civil rights movement was a mistake. I mean, I don't know how, I.
- [34:54]
A
Don'T know why it's that, the fact that that's even like, that, that's like a debate to be had that someone to the, to the heights that Charlie Kirk was able to get at who openly believe those things and just like preach them to young minds, developing minds on college campuses, like that's fully acceptable.
- [35:15]
B
Just be like, you know, and then conflate Christianity.
- [35:20]
A
Weaponizing God is the, is the, is the right wing. Like that is like their berry bonds. Like it's a guaranteed home run abortion. It's a, it's a baby, it's a kid. What are you talking about? Oh, shut up, shut up.
- [35:37]
B
It's, it's. I, I think there's a, a huge distinction that needs to be made between calling oneself a Christian and, or calling oneself a Christian nationalist. They're two different things. But it's, that's a discussion for another day. And I would prefer that we not discuss this online. I'm too nervous anymore. That's a very bizarre thing to be living, to be at the age that I'm at and my peers are at. And to think that that was the thing that we prided ourselves on so much in our country that we could literally get short of fisticuffs, get into some real solid verbal battles about, you know, you're a liberal and. Oh, you're, you're, you know, a right wing conservative and. Okay. And we could, we could duke it out verbally and I'm not saying even go home friends.
- [36:36]
A
No. Yeah, that's the thing. There's like, the misconceptions. Like, everything would end and we'd all hug it out.
- [36:40]
B
Of course not. No. But, you know, you'd walk away and think, all right, I remember thinking there are so many other countries where this could either get us killed, arrested, and now I really mean that as a mother and thinking of my sons and, you know, all, all the other people, friends, children and people that we love and people we don't even know. This is. You're. You're pulling people off the street because of what they look like. You're, you know, and the narrative is, oh, they're criminals. We. You don't know who these people are, but you're arresting them and taking them away from their families. And that's just not stuff that we, we read about these scenarios happening in other countries.
- [37:33]
A
It's. It's reverting back to like, the basis of profiling at like the, in the, in the lowest form, just based on someone's face, really.
- [37:45]
B
Well, I remember once, I don't know if you want to break this up, but you were young man and you were riding your bicycle.
- [37:55]
A
Oh, yeah. The first time I got pulled over.
- [37:58]
B
Yep.
- [37:58]
A
Yeah.
- [37:59]
B
Biking home and you were told you want. They wanted to see your ID and why were you in a certain neighborhood? You were a couple doors away from home. They didn't believe that you lived in that area. And then. Yeah, it was because we're looking for someone and they describe someone that.
- [38:16]
A
They didn't describe anybody, to be honest. They didn't. This is. So what happened was my brother, my older brother Kendall's my best friend. His father was a. Is a minister. And we would hang out. There's the, the house attached to the church. So we would hang out, watch football, play ping pong in his garage. The summer night, I like to bike everywhere. So I, I was busy doing something else or maybe hanging with another friend, so I joined them later. I biked over, probably. Yeah. Yeah. My. My, like race bike. Not even like. Yeah, as if the matter. As if the bike would change the outcome. An old Peugeot bicycle, road bike. And we hang. At that time, I'm so young. I was like 16, 17. I haven't really drank. It's not like I was drunk. I didn't really. I didn't do anything at that time I didn't. No, I was 16 or 15. And. And the night's over. It's probably 2 in the morning. It's like a Saturday night and I get on my bike to go home and it's no joke, what, a half mile away from home? Not even.
- [39:25]
B
Yeah, we wouldn't let you out that late.
- [39:27]
A
Yeah. So it's one turn down the street. So I'm biking home and got my string bag, which at the time would just have my wallet and my house keys to get. Get back home. And I have my. This is. Did I have a cell phone at this time maybe? No. Oh, but it wasn't. Not iPhone days.
- [39:48]
B
No, no. It was that little, like, look like a little square.
- [39:51]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had an old school phone. So basically I had an ipod. So I had a headphones in and I'm biking and I hear, I see, I hear like tires flying and I see sirens, life lights. And it's one cop and then another cop and they're flying and I, And I look over my shoulder and I'm like, well, I'm gonna, I'm on the side of the curb already, but like, I'm, you know, biking down, but I'm like, let me like pull up. Like, let me really get to the side of the curb because clearly these guys are going after somebody. And then they immediately just cut me off and like, I have to slam on my brakes and they both just cut me off and get out their cars, like. And I'm like, take my. I. Oh, I think I got it. There was a little nat. I take my headphones out and I'm like, they, you know, they're saying, hey, like, what are you doing around here? They just, without. They don't even say hey. How's. It's immediately questions, question, question, questions. And I'm AirPods. Like, I'm sorry, what? There's a string of robberies going on, which. Who knew if that was even true or not. And they're like, you, you know, you're. You're pedaling aggressively fast on a bike bike. I'm literally just taking, letting gravity take me. It's a gradual downhill. And I said, look, I don't know what you're talking. They're like, where do you live? I was like, around the corner. My, My license is in my bag if you'd like. They said, get it. And again, first time being pulled over, it was a learner's permit. I didn't even have a license yet. Yeah. And I, you know, without Hesitation. Took my bag off and reached in, and they kind of, you know, you know, clutched up in my mind. I'm like, I have. I have the keys and my learner's permit in this bag. There's literally nothing else in here. And I show them my permit. They didn't believe me. They knew that I was me, but they didn't believe that I was up to no good. So they're like, looking in my bag. There's nothing. It's an empty string bag. And then out comes. Because my brother was getting driven home, and he's in the passenger seat. And our friend, who I don't need a name, is driving. Our friend is white, the son of the minister. And they slow down, pull up next to the cop cars because they see me standing next to my bike and getting questioned. And they pull up because I had told the cops I was hanging out at the church, which you could still see from where I got pulled over. And they laughed. They were like, there's no fucking way you're at the church. I was like, well, my dad's. My friend. Friend's dad is the. They didn't believe me. So. Window rolls down. I told. When the window came down, I told Kendall, my brother. I said, don't say anything. And he didn't. I'll bleep it. Our friend leaned over the car because, you know, the cops are on the passenger side. And our friend leans over and speaks to the officers and verifies that we were hanging out, playing ping pong, watching football, whatever, and that he is, in fact, the son of the. The minister. And they. Because he was. That. He said that. And because he was white, they let my brother and our friend drive back to our house. And they basically told me, like, well, you know, you look like you were looking. They basically were like, you. You could. You know why we pulled you over, right? I'm like, no. Like, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So then I got to go home. But I don't know why the story was brought up.
- [43:08]
B
Well, we talk about racial profiling or just profiling in general. And that happened a second time to you, by the way.
- [43:15]
A
The worst. That was worse. That one was actually embarrassing for me. Yeah. That wasn't fun.
- [43:23]
B
But it was scary to be at the.
- [43:25]
A
That one was scary. That one was scary because I was at a major. Do I tell this one? No, no. Yeah. That was at a major public event. It was at a. The Chicago Marathon, and it was not fun. That one was bad. I got curbed, cuffed. It was Up. So. Yeah.
- [43:43]
B
You know, and it's also happened to your brother, too, especially when he's been in a car, driving. But. And always it's. It's disconcerting because they. They never. They don't come up with anything because there's nothing that anyone that you or your brother were. Was doing that was considered illegal.
- [44:04]
A
I mean, in my experience, though, that the two. Those two times that we're referencing. Both times those exchanges with the officers ended in. The one in Chicago ended with. You got to admit, you look suspicious, as if. You know what, man? You're right. My bad. Like, you're right. Let's. In the middle of the marathon, I. You know, you pull me over, sit me down, run my license, do this whole thing, make a scene. Everybody's watched, staring at me. I'm holding a Starbucks cup in a croissant. But you know what? My bad. I fit. I. I'm sorry I looked like the person you grew up afraid of. My bad. That was the. Yeah. And we're back there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
- [44:48]
B
So many people been up against us. So. Ah.
- [44:53]
A
Well, now we got to talk about. Because we were talking about the extreme side of this. That. That they're saying that the shooter. And again, all this is alleged. Who the hell knows? Could possibly be a friend. Not a friend, a follower of that Nick Fuentes guy, who. I believe the term that they called that group of supporters is groipers, which. Which was a relatively new term for me. I've heard it before, but not as much as I've heard it in the last week or so, which is basically for what Charlie Kirk was. They would deem him to be moderate in terms of. Which, again, in terms of what he said and how he went about his messaging. Whereas the Fuentes fan base is much, far more extreme in the. In the negative direction, which would lead to more action versus peaceful dialogue. The obsession now, too, with, you know, every. It's. It's the same thing. Like, I don't need to get into the 911 conspiracy, but it's like, oh, we found the one passport untouched by, like, one of the pilots right at the foot of the building. Who would have thought? And it's like the same thing where it's like, we didn't know who the shooter was. Like, oh, the cartridges said, you know, trans rights on them. It's like, what are we. It's the same. It's the same thing every single time. It's like, who do we want to pick on? That's the demo. All right. Like, say the guy, you know, did this with this group that we also hate, which really is. It's so sad.
- [46:31]
B
We're really a pointing the fingers society now. That way that, you know, it's not us, it's them.
- [46:41]
A
It's never when is it us?
- [46:45]
B
Oh, yeah, when do. When.
- [46:46]
A
That's. I guess that's like, my bigger question is, like, when is a country? Or when is a. When do we ever take the. The feel remorse or own the wrongdoings that we've done? It's weird. Like, it's always. I didn't say that. It's like you said it. Like, you're on I'm on Twitter, seeing all these things that people, you know, are saying in In Memoriam for Charlie Kirk. But then, you know, people are just screenshotting all these guys old tweets and be like, this, you. And it's like, yeah, you're saying the very thing that you're, you know, now's not a time we need to do. And it's like, you, You. You. You dressed up as Doc like Derek Chauvin last year for Christmas. Like, what do you. Like, what's the. Like, are we. That. It's like the arrogance to not only say those things, but to say them knowing your receipts are public. Yeah, that's the dirt. The. The thing you said. The. The offensive things that you've said live on publicly, which can then just be thrown in your face when it. But it's like, that doesn't matter. And I think that is the Trump confidence that everyone else from that party is mimicking. Trump says the grab him by the pussy comment. He, you know, is the. The videos with Epstein and he'll just say, nah. Or the. The letter about Epstein with the. The like, young girl. The disgusting thing with the. The girl in the book, he's just like, I don't draw. That's not me. Like, even with the receipts, if it's on video, if it's on audio, he just goes, nah. And if you don't make it a big deal, guess who else won't make it a big deal? Nobody else.
- [48:39]
B
Or if you keep. If you keep consistent with. It wasn't me. It's not me. I didn't know those people. I never said that. I didn't. You know, he's a master at that.
- [48:52]
A
So. Good. As much as I hate him, he is so this man in this. In the heat of the Epstein things, which, by the way, should still be very much a topical big news story, but he has done. He Gave the barking orders to whomever, like, you know, the. The talking pundits on Fox News and Ben Shapiro and a few others. But he's also just like, when. When pressed about it when he was in, like, Ireland or Belfast, and he was like, why are we still. Yeah, he's like, what the. Why are you guys even talking about. Yeah, it's like, he's like. He, like, makes you feel like the idiot and then the. It be in because. And this is why I hate these media outlets, because they're not getting the reaction that they want. They'll come off it and they'll be like, well, he's not. He's not, like, yelling it. You know what I mean? Like, well, if he's not gonna say anything spicy or headline worthy, then let's go talk about some other thing he did. No, every time you see that prep go at his necks, bring that. Oh, that's probably not the best thing to say, but bring it up. Just keep bringing it up. Make him not. Don't give him the opportunity to not discuss it.
- [50:10]
B
We go, we watch those press junkets or those press events where we go from the question about the Epstein files to pivoting to the ballroom that they're building in the. In the oas, and. And they go with it.
- [50:28]
A
Yeah, who cares?
- [50:32]
B
That's what he does so well.
- [50:34]
A
And I hate that the Democrats take the bait and they'll let him guide the narrative. That Epstein was. The first time you saw him visibly feel shook and like, damn, like, this is bad. And he probably, just in like a moment of clarity was like, I'll just do what I always do and they'll fall for it. And after two, three weeks, they did.
- [51:08]
B
He's. He has stacked the deck in his favor in his 2.0 presidency now so that he has a lot of people heading up different parts of the government. And in his press, he depleted the.
- [51:22]
A
Press room of any real journalist. It's just people that are in there to give him gifts and tell him.
- [51:26]
B
He looks great and also to just fortify the narratives that he wants out there. So he has a lot more power this time around. And I think that's why, when you're saying, what are the Dems doing? Or why do other reporters just succumb to all this? They capitulate to this stuff, you know, because he's. He is. The system is loaded with his power, and it's a scary place for a lot of people now.
- [51:58]
A
I mean, what's. What's embarrassing about Democrats is like, they Literally there's no one. There's no person that's ready or fit for like there's no face of the party currently and there's no unified messaging. We're so divided on Mumdani people because of his stance on the Middle east as a party. We can't even. Our Kathy Hoeple finally backed him because I'm sure she was getting to a point where she couldn't hold on any longer while other people like, you know, what's his face? That fucking asshole Richie Torres and then the other guy. I fuck these guys. They just can't. Like our party is so divided for over policing each other. Whereas I've always said that the Republicans as divisive and as much as they push people like to their break their breaking points, they're a forgiving bunch. If you're a Republican, you up or you do something that's deemed like bad in the eyes of a Democrat. If you just. If a Democratic senator or politician misgendered or pronounced someone, you're done. Like, get the out of here. You're disgusting. How could you say such a vile thing? You can make mistakes in the Republican Party and be welcomed back and you know, not even anything crazy, but like there's a safe space. Like to me, the Democratic Party, you're. You're safe until you get a reason to get kicked out and then you're gone. Like, it's like the. They want.
- [53:31]
B
Want.
- [53:31]
A
They look. They want people to up so they can push him out or.
- [53:36]
B
Or it's how they define loyalty because.
- [53:38]
A
It'S not even loyalty. It's policing amongst each other. You know what I mean? It's like it's does greater harm for the party that you watch over. Every single Democratic member with like a Brett Kavanaugh, as awful as he is, could net Democrats. You would. If he had one of those charges or anything that. If that if that was something that wasn't known and that got revealed when he got, you know, nominated as much as say. Say it's reversed. Democrats love this guy. They think he's the best. He gets nominated, these things come out. Oh, you're done. Like you're literally dead to the party. Goodbye. Republicans are like, man, come on, come on. Like, you're still with us. You're loyal. We're gonna treat you well. Here's a. Here's a seat for life Democrat. Like if you. A bad tweet is as much as you. What you could be saying in your messaging and how much money you've raised could Be helping the party as a whole. If that one thing comes up that could end your career. Good night.
- [54:44]
B
Well, several Democrats have fallen from grace that way. You know, Al Franken, something he did long before he was an elected official, right through to. I'm sorry, not Mario Andrew Cuomo. And I'm not, I'm. We're not discussing. Right.
- [55:03]
A
I don't, I'm not just. We're not defending anything they did. But, like, my point is, like, the Republican stuff like that happens, and they're, you know, well, this person's still good for the party, and we want him to. We don't. We don't want to lose him.
- [55:18]
B
Right.
- [55:20]
A
I don't know. This stuff, it is, It's. It's infuriating. I, I've, I've. I've said this to myself at night. I'm like, I, I don't let this stuff, like, get me too emotional as it used to. I'm not, I'm not trying to, like, get to the boiling point of any sort, but it is taxing, and it takes a toll on you to just endlessly see spatting online and literal violence, like seeing someone get killed. Not even just Charlie, but other people like reading statistics. We're so numb to statistics. You know, we're breaking news. We're interrupting Charlie Kirk's assassination to break news about three kids that are shot in high school in Colorado. It's like, what is this country? And when are we going to be, like, this is unified? Like, we need to change this. Like, it's not a matter of we need to change them, Meaning the left needs to change the right and the right needs to change the left. It's like, no, like, this is wrong. We need to change this approach to democracy.
- [56:27]
B
So where will change occur? Where do you think it's most effective? Is it most effective in communities? In small communities where. Yeah. So that. To. To detach from.
- [56:45]
A
But where are we seeing good. Where, like, where are the outlets? Or where are the. Where are we seeing good stories? Or, like, I'm not saying that the news needs to do a 180 and only promote, like, you know, the cat got rescued in the local town.
- [56:59]
B
But no, no. But here. I know what you. I think I know what you mean, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but go back to what we witnessed tonight and when the. Was it the principal or the superintendent of the school district or somebody within the school district said to the young athletes that are currently in high school.
- [57:24]
A
You know, during the ceremony, there were current High schoolers sitting in the back that were watching this hall of Fame inductee, like, you know, getting the this could be you one day type of messaging.
- [57:36]
B
And particularly the. The gentleman that, that lived, he was born in Ireland, but lived in both Ireland and England. His story and his, he just, you know, met up against death and loss and abandonment. By the time he was 12, he already experienced all of that stuff. So that was one situation. And, you know, to just hear a lot of the different athletes tell their backstories, including your father. So that person got up and said to the young athletes, pay attention to what you just heard, because when the odds feel that they're against you, and they really are at times, the idea of doing your best to understand that this is going to pass, I'm going to dig deeper. I'm going to lean into people in my community that are availing themselves. And it only takes one person to help you through. I think, Julian, that that's where we have to remind ourselves that all that hatred we see displayed on the Internet when, you know, people are screaming at each other at the gas station or, you know, the grocery store, the Karen in the Central park screaming at the young man who was at his dog on. On the leash or not on limit.
- [59:13]
A
I legit probably see on my phone 20 fights a day on Twitter of stupid, just nonsensical things. It's like, I shouldn't.
- [59:21]
B
So that's what I mean, detach from that stuff. And, and instead when you go to. When you're at work or you're, you know, playing hoop with, or you, you go, you join a group because you want to clean up the litter in the park or something, or, or you're just sitting down to dinner with your family and feel, tell yourself, I'm going to say something positive. I'm going to pay it forward. Something positive forward to the person sitting across from me. I think that we have to start somewhere and we have to start with, you know, some really small acts of kindness. It sounds. And, you know, the whole Pollyanna approach frustrates the hell out of me. But I really don't know where else to go with all this pain and suffering that we're seeing that's resulting from all this dialogue that we're engaged in. So, you know, I really think that if we can figure out a way is our voices in the end are going to be the thing, our getting together as communities will be the thing that will hopefully say, no, enough. We're not going to do this anymore in our town. We're opening up a new grassroots co op grocery store. It's not, you know, the hippie dippy type. It's the people that are putting it together were hell bent on it being in food desert, located in a food desert where it was on a bus line or walkable. It's critical. And it's going to be locally, you know, grown fresh fruits and vegetables. Yes.
- [61:21]
A
And.
- [61:22]
B
Exactly. And if you can't afford the membership for the co op, those of us that can afford the membership, we're going to buy for people that can. So. And they're going to accept food stamps and wick. So those, those are the good feels. Those are. And those are, those are concrete deliverables.
- [61:41]
A
Yeah. And maybe because these aren't, I think everyone thinks in major events in like such broad like grand gestures and absolutes that like those things kind of get overlooked, although they may be happening to get overlooked because they're not sexy. You know, it's not like, it's not like if I'm a, if I'm, if I were to refute that, like, what would the counter be?
- [62:07]
B
You know, it's not for profit. How am I, what am I getting out of that? It's the capitalist thought process that, yeah, why would I want to put myself forward like that if I'm not getting anything? What's the return on my investment? Well, the return on the investment is that you're building community, that you're hopefully countering the poison that gets you depressed and keeps you up at night or you know, throws somebody further into isolation and depression.
- [62:42]
A
The thing that's tough that I'm like seeing in terms of like changing the tide of. I think because we're seeing so much violence and so much action because being taken, I think while in reality it's thoughts or it's actions, I think people are kind of. You're reversing this order and putting action first because you're like, well, action will get me rewarded and also make the biggest splash and whatever messaging I'm trying.
- [63:11]
B
To convey because that's that social media.
- [63:14]
A
That'S the sexy one.
- [63:15]
B
We're like clicking the like or whatever. Yeah.
- [63:18]
A
I think if we, if to what you said earlier, if we clean up, not clean up, but if we prioritize the thoughts and the words, then the actions kind of take care of themselves. Less of those things will happen because people will be, there won't be a need for that. You become ostracized again and not rewarded because the very thoughts that were happening and the Things that we're saying don't lead to that. So I don't, I don't know what that looks like. And I think, I mean, part of what that looks like is what you're saying. It starts on like the small, non sexiest thing of like here's a community, you know, garden or grocery store that people can eat at. And what does, what do, what do less hungry people mean? It means more productivity. It means less probably theft and stealing, looking for, you know, growth groceries or. And just one of my professors whom I loved in college, Professor Smith, one of the leading experts on Shakespeare in the world, told me, taught me so much about Shakespeare and literature, but one of the best things he ever said to me. I was having a problem with a friend of mine or something in school and he was also my advisor and I would talk to him a lot about my personal stuff beyond school. He was kind of my therapist and he said, he was like, well, when's the last time you spoke to him? I was like, oh. He's like, well, when you go to sleep goes, did you eat? That's all he asked me. It was like three in the afternoon. I was like, no. Like, I don't know, not yet. And he goes, well, don't. He goes, there's. You should never argue or have a confrontation with someone on an empty stomach. And he said, he said also like something along the lines like before bed as well. He was like, don't. If you're, if you're, if you're fuming or you feel upset or angry, eat, go to bed with something in your system, sleep on it and then, you know, reassess in the morning. But the messaging behind like he prioritized food so much in gut health with how one would react. Yeah, yeah, he was brilliant. And how you would think, how you'd.
- [65:28]
B
Be able to think more clearly.
- [65:30]
A
Yeah. And that's so like it's, I mean it goes outside the term hangry. We kind of like, you know, codified like these terms kind of become like a. You're so mad because you're angry. But it's like there's so much truth to that beyond, you know, me having to wait for a reservation.
- [65:45]
B
Right.
- [65:45]
A
You know, that has like real life consequences that people that aren't fed consistently or just given basic needs, you act.
- [65:56]
B
Irrationally or new or, or allow having access to nutrient rich food that doesn't break the bank, you know, that that's, I mean, for. To be able to buy a dozen apples and you know, I mean that shouldn't be a luxury. I, I think it's important every day for as much as we all doom scroll and we, you know, when we always say I don't want to do that again, there's too much, you know, I want to go for a walk in the, for a walk and just see the sun or go out and take a look at the moon or I'm going to call my grandmother and tell her how much I think about her or bake something for someone or call a friend. It's those kinds of things. If you can make a conscious effort to break away from. Use the social media for how it can best serve you your mental health and then disassociate. There's so much incredible. The library is a great resource but there's all kinds of places to get to feel the beauty of what humans can do through art, through, you know, a city park, a country road. I mean I don't. It depends upon where just sitting in silence. So I say to do that kind of thing to remind yourself that we're going to get through this. We've been down this really dark, ugly road before. If you don't understand or believe it, do some digging back in history and see what happened and how people rose up. And it really was people, not the heads of state, it was the community.
- [68:01]
A
Always communities that lead to actual change. I guess my thing is like don't. I'll close on. Don't be told or fed what to see and what to believe in doing so. So like if you're a terrible tragedy and here's how you should think about it, don't run to videos and comments and retweets. Don't prioritize and validate likes and retweets as a matter of unified opinion and collective agreement, I to your point, I've been going on a lot more walks and on those walks I just won't put headphones in. I'll just kind of think or just like overhear conversation. Just like even if I'm not talking to other people, just connecting in passing what's a thing someone said or oh, I gotta go to the I gotta pick up this for so and so's birthday. It's just like life is happening and so are other people's lives and then it's kind of nice to hear those moments in passing. But when you don't want to walk or be alone, like I think you're right. Like again, in the spirit of not being told what to see and who to see and who to who's recommended that you should follow and read about, talk to people that you love and, you know, have in your life and have those conversations with. With them if you. Even if they're uncomfortable. I have a lot of friends that are in New York City that are Jewish. I've found my footing with some of them that I can be more open and honest about about certain parts of the world and Middle east. And I have some more, like, acquaintances that I know I can have that discussion with, but I'm okay with that. And I know how to do that with. With both parties. I don't look to use that as a tool to divide myself or, like, push those certain people away or, like, vilify people. But I know that there's also a safe space and, like, a more open, honest conversation with certain Jewish friends that are, like, understanding and compassionate and empathetic for what's going on in Gaza. So, I don't know. I guess my tip is, like, don't fall for the extreme. It's got to be this or it's that. It's either one way or it's nothing. There's so much dialogue and connectivity that exists if you want it to, but that's not going to be found online. No tweet that respects both sides is going viral. So, anyway, it's late. I gotta upload this. We're gonna go to bed soon. Thank everybody. It's about midnight local time here almost. So I'm gonna process this and you'll listen this tomorrow morning. So thank you, everybody. My second episode from home. This is episode 35. 5. Something Wrong with the podcast. Thank you, mom, for being here. Always. I dragged you into this. Dad's long asleep. Me and mom rocking here in the kitchen. So thank you, guys. All right, peace.