How Eyeglasses Changed the World & The Art of Effective Complaining

Summary

Podcast Summary: Something You Should Know

Episode Title: How Eyeglasses Changed the World & The Art of Effective Complaining
Host: Mike Carruthers
Guests: David King Dunaway (author, "A Four Eyed World"), Eric Z (author, "The Art of the Constructive Complaint")
Date: February 19, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores two distinct but fascinating topics:

1. The revolutionary impact and cultural journey of eyeglasses, with insights into their history, invention, and shifting perception from necessary medical device to essential fashion accessory.
2. The art of constructive complaining, delving into why speaking up for fair treatment matters, how to do it effectively, and actionable tips for voicing frustrations without burning bridges.

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Segment 1: The Amazing History and Impact of Eyeglasses

Guest: David King Dunaway, Professor of English and author of "A Four Eyed World"
Timestamps: [03:24] – [28:01]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Eyeglasses: An Underrated Revolution

• Glasses aren't just about vision correction—they radically altered who could participate in reading, working, and society.
  • “Glasses didn't just improve vision, they radically expanded who could learn, work and participate fully in society.” – Mike Carruthers [05:01]

Origins and Early Innovations

• Roots trace back about 5,000 years for magnification. True eyeglasses—two lenses in a frame—emerged in Italy during the late 13th century, circa 1286.
  • “People have been using lenses for magnification for, oh, gosh, about 5,000 years. What's new is about holding two of these magnifiers up together...generally considered to have happened in 1286.” – David King Dunaway [06:52]
• Early glasses were crude, hand-made, and more like reading magnifiers than the eyeglasses we know.
  • “You couldn't wear them as you walked down the street. And they were essentially magnifying glasses or reading glasses.” – Dunaway [07:46]

Adoption and Spread

• For centuries, glasses were handmade and not custom-fitted. Peddlers would estimate your prescription based on age.
  • “You told the peddler how old you were, and he then gave you what he thought would be the right kind of glasses.” – Dunaway [08:55]

From Medical Device to Cultural Icon

• Glasses remained stigmatized for centuries. They were seen primarily as a fix for a deficiency, especially for children and women.
  • “For centuries women and girls were told glasses make them unattractive...It revealed their age. It revealed a physical weakness.” – Dunaway [17:11]
  • Famous quote: “Men seldom make passes at girls who wear glasses.” – Dorothy Parker, cited by Dunaway [17:42]
• Today, eyeglasses are fashion statements; people often choose frames for style, some even without corrective lenses.
  • “They've come out of their shell, but what about those of us that still need them to see?...we need to respect that and accept that glasses will always perform different functions.” – Dunaway [20:20]

Glasses Business and Industry Shift

• Professional optometry and the glasses industry took off in the 18th and 19th centuries as training became standardized.
  • “The process of correcting vision is relatively new to the human species.” – Dunaway [11:56]
• Now, hundreds of millions rely on glasses, and the fashion industry surrounding eyewear is worth billions. [20:20]

Smart Glasses and The Future

• Discussion about smart glasses as “wearable computers,” raising privacy issues.
  • “Yes, they'll let us see, but...they'll also let us take pictures and record sound...So before smart glasses become everywhere...society is going to have to...protect our privacy.” – Dunaway [22:22]

Sunglasses and Contact Lenses

• Sunglasses were used by the Chinese for thousands of years (without vision correction) and, later, aviators.
  • “The first sunglasses appeared on aviators who had the most critical need for them...The Ray Ban style...is a product of the 1930s and 40s.” – Dunaway [23:25]
• Contact lenses began as medical devices in 19th century Switzerland and became practical only with the advent of plastics in the 1930s.
  • “The first contact lenses...were actually made from clipped off pieces of the bottom of test tubes.” – Dunaway [25:10]

Vision Correction Beyond Lenses

• While surgery like LASIK offers alternatives, Dunaway is skeptical correction by lenses will disappear soon.
  • “I would love to say there's a day when...we would all see 2020. I don't think that day is coming within our century.” – Dunaway [26:43]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “As soon as glasses were invented, somebody else denounced them as diabolical. The church...resisted the use of glasses, saying you should take the eyes that God gave you and not expect to improve them.” – Dunaway [13:00]
• “Glasses exist in these two worlds. A medical world where people like myself need them to survive...and [now] they tend to be an object of consumption.” – Dunaway [20:20]

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Segment 2: The Art of Effective Complaining

Guest: Eric Z, Author of "The Art of the Constructive Complaint"
Timestamps: [29:54] – [49:46]

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why We Hesitate to Complain — and Why We Shouldn’t

• People hold back complaints for fear of seeming difficult or because they expect little payoff.
  • “Often I don't complain because it doesn't feel like it's worth it. There's not going to be any big payoff.” – Carruthers [30:55]
• Constructive complaining is really just effective feedback and, when done correctly, helps businesses improve.

Mindset Shift: Complaint as Constructive Feedback

• “Complaining is really just a form of feedback...think about it as constructive complaining or constructive feedback.” – Eric Z [31:17]

How to Complain Effectively

• Use a calm, professional, and polite tone—how you present your feedback determines the outcome.
  • “If you are courteous, professional, calm, polite...that's usually going to entice a favorable, same tone type of reaction from the server.” – Eric Z [32:38]
• Clearly state: what went wrong, what your expectation was, and what would make it right.
  • “A complaint letter needs to have a couple of key components, right? It's got to have what went wrong. It's got to be specific on what you expected, what you got, and why it was an impact to you.” – Eric Z [43:49]

Humor and Humanity in Complaints

• Humor makes your complaint memorable and lowers defenses.
  • “Humor goes a long way just to make it sound human and memorable. In the context of a complaint, it's pretty unexpected.” – Eric Z [34:40]

Addressing Service Power Dynamics

• Avoid going straight to a manager; first give front-line employees a chance to resolve your issue.
  • “With 'let me speak to a manager,' you are automatically putting that person...on the defensive.” – Eric Z [40:31]
• Escalate if they lack the authority or can’t make it right.

The Power of Written Complaints

• Letters stand out, especially when addressed to someone at the top (e.g., CEO’s office). They are often more effective than phone calls, as they can be thought out and reach someone with authority.
  • “I generally always send [complaints] to the office of the CEO...I never expect that person to read the letter...But what you can safely presume is if you mail something there...they'll get it to the right place.” – Eric Z [43:49]

Complaint Success Rates

• Eric reports a personal success rate of more than 80% for constructive complaints.
  • “It's north of 50%. I would say it's probably even closer to 80, 85%...I have had complete meals replaced, experiences compensated, so I could...redo the experience. Airfares reimbursed...” – Eric Z [46:26]

When and How to Escalate

• Not every situation will be resolved immediately; sometimes, following up after the fact with a well-crafted letter delivers the best outcome.
• Know which issues are best handled instantly (service situations), and which benefit from a reasoned written appeal.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “If you complain in a constructive fashion, you highlight the problem, you explain what the impact was, it gives people an opportunity to fix it. And at the end, that does make people feel good.” – Eric Z [34:40]
• “Written correspondence kind of helps you avoid a lot of that.” (referring to emotional escalation and loss of message) – Eric Z [49:42]

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Quick Intel Nuggets

• Why Do You Forget Why You Walked Into a Room?

  • It's called event segmentation: every time you cross a boundary (like a doorway), your brain creates a new 'event,' making your recent thoughts less accessible. [50:02]

• Coffee and Longevity

  • Large long-term studies show a compelling link (not causation) between drinking up to 3–5 cups a day (including decaf!) and lower risk of early death from several diseases. [03:24]

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Summary & Takeaways

• Eyeglasses are one of humanity’s most profound yet underrated inventions, revolutionizing daily life, learning, and work for billions, and evolving from stigma to status symbol.
• Fashion and function now co-exist, but the practical, life-changing need for glasses should never be overshadowed by trends. Privacy concerns loom as we move into a future of smart glasses.
• Complaining is more than venting—it’s a skillful art of providing feedback that can lead to fair outcomes and improved service. The key: be specific, calm, and constructive.
• Written complaints, humor, and explaining impact greatly improve your odds for resolution.

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Most Memorable Quotes

• “Glasses didn't just improve vision, they radically expanded who could learn, work and participate fully in society.”
  – Mike Carruthers [05:01]

• “Men seldom make passes at girls who wear glasses.”
  – Dorothy Parker, cited by David King Dunaway [17:42]

• “If you are courteous, professional, calm, polite...that's usually going to entice a favorable, same tone type of reaction.”
  – Eric Z [32:38]

• “It's north of 50%. I would say it's probably even closer to 80, 85%. I have had complete meals replaced, experiences compensated.”
  – Eric Z [46:26]

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For more on these topics, check out:

• David King Dunaway’s book, A Four Eyed World
• Eric Z’s book, "The Art of the Constructive Complaint"

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This engaging episode arms listeners with fresh appreciation for everyday innovations and practical tactics to speak up with confidence—truly, something you should know.

Transcript

[Micah Ruthers]

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[David King Dunaway]

They were sold by eyeglass peddlers out of a box and you told the peddler how old you were and he then gave you what he thought would be the right kind of glasses.

[Micah Ruthers]

Also, ever walk into a room and forget why? I'll explain why that happens and the fine art of complaining from someone with a very high batting average of success.

[Eric Z]

It's pretty high. It's north of 50%. I have had complete meals replaced, experiences compensated so I could redo the experience. Airfares kind of reimbursed all this today.

[Micah Ruthers]

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[David King Dunaway]

Something YOU SHOULD KNOW Fascinating intel, the world's top experts and practical advice you can use in your life today.

[Micah Ruthers]

Something you should with Mike Carruthers. If you drink coffee, and I drink a fair amount of coffee, so I know this is true for me, and I suspect it's true for most coffee drinkers, that you worry about it, that you feel guilty about it. Oh, I should cut back. I'm drinking too much. Well, if you've ever thought that, hang on. That's what we're going to start with today on this episode of SOMETHING YOU SHOULD know. I'm Micah Ruthers, and welcome. Glad to have you here. So, coffee drinkers often worry and feel guilty about the coffee they drink. But a study has found that drinking coffee is linked to a longer life. And the more coffee, the longer the life. Researchers observed more than 208,000 participants over 30 years. These participants completed physical exams and surveys on diet and behavior, including their coffee habits. The more coffee they drank, the lower their risk for heart disease, stroke, diabetes, suicide and neurological diseases like Parkinson's. And if you're a nonsmoker, that's even better. A daily cup of coffee was associated with a 6% decreased risk of early death. One to three daily cups of coffee was associated with an 8% decrease in risk of early death. And three to five cups was associated with a 15% decrease. And decaf drinkers got the same benefits. Now, science is not sure why this is, and no one is saying that coffee actually prevents disease. It's a link, not a cause and effect, but it's a link between coffee and longevity. It's pretty compelling. And that is something you should know. One of the greatest human inventions doesn't get nearly enough credit. Eyeglasses. Think about it. Without them, millions of people wouldn't be able to read, drive, recognize faces, or even function comfortably in the world. Glasses didn't just improve vision, they radically expanded who could learn, work and participate fully in society. And yet, for a long time, wearing glasses made you a target. Especially as a kid, glasses meant you were nerdy and awkward, somehow deficient. They were a medical device, something to fix what was wrong with you. Well, then, fast forward to today and the script has completely flipped. Glasses today are fashion. People who don't even need them wear them. Sunglasses are practically mandatory for everyone. Frames signal intelligence, cool, seriousness, creativity. We've gone from hiding glasses to showing them off. So how did this happen? How did a tool for correcting a flaw become a cultural symbol? And what did eyeglasses change about how humans see the world? That's what we're diving into today with David King Duniway. He's a professor of English at the University of New Mexico and the University of Sao Paulo, and he's author of a book called A Four Eyed How Glasses Change the Way We See. Hey, David, welcome to something you should know.

[David King Dunaway]

A pleasure to be here.

[Micah Ruthers]

Well, as I said in the intro, when you think about it, it's such an incredible invention and it probably goes back a long way. So how did it all start?

[David King Dunaway]

Well, people have been using lenses for magnification for, oh, gosh, about 5,000 years. What's new is about holding two of these magnifiers up together and getting binocular vision and then rigging up something that would two magnifying lenses and join them together with a wooden frame and a rivet and bang. One of humanity's most useful inventions generally considered to have happened in 1286, although the development spans the second half of the 13th century in Italy.

[Micah Ruthers]

Wow, that's I think for surprising for a lot of people that it's that eyeglasses are that old and did they, did they look kind of like, like if you them on somebody you would go, oh yeah, he's wearing glasses.

[David King Dunaway]

Well, first of all, these were two quarter sized pieces of crystal or glass and not very clear glass. And they were only about 4 inches wide. You couldn't wear them as you walked down the street. And they were essentially magnifying glasses or reading glasses.

[Micah Ruthers]

Is the invention of eyeglasses associated with someone, a person, an inventor, somebody who takes credit for that?

[David King Dunaway]

We don't know exactly. It's a mystery who actually invented glasses and we don't even know where. We know it was in Italy, maybe Pisa, maybe Venice, maybe Florence. These were the cities where glasses first appeared among monks and later nuns desperate to find something to help their ailing eyes.

[Micah Ruthers]

And did it take off right away or did it take a long time for the world to adopt eyeglasses?

[David King Dunaway]

Let's see, in the beginning, each pair of glasses was handmade. Again, they were not for nearsighted vision or for farsighted vision. They were reading glasses, the kind today we can find in a Supermarket or drugstore. It took till really about the 15th or 16th century when glasses became popular, and they were sold by eyeglass peddlers out of a box. And you told the peddler how old you were, and he then gave you what he thought would be the right kind of glasses. Later ON in the 17th century, somebody came up with a way of creating wire frames which would allow people to swap lenses as their visual needs changed. That took place in Nuremberg, Germany, and its design and the idea of interchangeable lenses traveled well across the world.

[Micah Ruthers]

Do we have any sense of how many people require corrective lenses today?

[David King Dunaway]

Well, it's hard to know, because in many parts of the world, it's very hard to get visual exams of any accuracy at all. In the United States, we have something like 220 million people who wear glasses regularly. In the world as a whole, it's probably somewhere between 4 and 5 billion people.

[Micah Ruthers]

Well, when I was thinking about this, when I saw that we were going to talk about this topic, one of the things that I find so interesting is that eyeglasses are a corrective thing. They fix a deficiency, and that a lot of people will like when they get their picture taken, they'll take their glasses off as if they don't want to look like they wear glasses. And yet a lot of people wear glasses as a fashion accessory. I know people who wear glasses that have no lenses in them just to wear the frames because it's a look they have. So it kind of straddles like it's. It's a medical device, and yet it's also a fashion accessory.

[David King Dunaway]

That's right. And your friends who wear glasses with plain lenses are among the 16 million Americans who simply wear them as a fashion device or to change the way they will appear, or to benefit from some of the positive stereotypes of glass glasses.

[Micah Ruthers]

When did it become a business? When did people really start going to eye doctors and opticians, and when did that really start to take off?

[David King Dunaway]

Well, the vision correction industry probably has its roots in that ancient peddler who wandered around with the box strapped to his neck. As an industry, though, it really takes off in the 18th, 19th cent, when the training for optometrists and opticians became more regularized. Doctors have been working on eyes for 4,000 years, but the process of correcting vision is relatively new to the human species.

[Micah Ruthers]

Maybe this is just my perception, but it does seem to me that more people wear glasses today than. Than ever than ever before.

[David King Dunaway]

Well, part of that is because people are leading longer lives, and for Many people, the need for glasses appears in their 40s and 50s and that's called presbyopia. And it's simply the result of people's eye muscles weakening and the lens itself losing its flexibility so that in particular close up materials become hard to see. I'm sure your listeners are very familiar with this process and that's why we have reading glasses today. To come back to an earlier point you made about the cell, what I call the selfies phenomenon, as soon as glasses were invented, somebody else denounce them as diabolical. The church of the Middle Ages and even so called Dark Ages resisted the use of glasses, saying you should take the eyes that God gave you and not expect to improve them. This began to change when the church elders themselves aged to a point where they needed them. But glasses initially were expensive and as I say, handmade. One at a time, optical professionals, amazingly enough, as late as the 17th century were denouncing the use of eyeglasses and saying that patients shouldn't be able to choose them.

[Micah Ruthers]

I want to talk more about what I think is this fascinating contradiction. Where in some people's eyes glasses detract from your looks, they don't make you as attractive and other people think exactly the opposite. I'm talking with David King Dunaway and he is author of the book A Four Eyed World. I don't really like buying clothes online just because the odds are so bad. I've sent back more things than I've kept, so I didn't expect much from Quince. And yet I was wrong, dead wrong. I love Quince. Everything fits. I don't think we've sent anything back. I mean, they're cashmere sweaters. I've got two of them. They are ridiculously soft. They hold up and they didn't cost a fortune. I mean, we've bought so much from Quints. Jeans, shoes, shirts, belts. The prices are amazing. And that's because Quints works directly with top factories and cuts out the middlemen. So you're not paying for brand markup, you're paying for quality clothes that actually last. So at this point, before I buy anything new, I check Quince first. Not out of loyalty, well, maybe a little out of loyalty, but mostly just experience. Quince delivers. So refresh your wardrobe with Quince. Go to quince.comsysk for free shipping and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.comSYSK have you been waiting for the perfect time to upgrade your tech. Good news. The wait is over. Dell Tech Day's annual sales event is here and we're celebrating our best customers with fantastic deals on the latest PCs like the Dell 14 plus with Intel Core Ultra processors. We've also got incredible perks like Dell Rewards, fast free shipping, Premium support, Price Match Guarantee, and more. And while you're upgrading your PC, you may as well go all out because we're also offering huge deals on our premium suite of monitors and accessories. You know what that means? That's right. You can get a whole new setup with amazing savings. Clearly, this is a sale you don't want to miss. Visit Dell.com deals that's Dell.com deals so, David, talk about this idea that glasses make you unattractive, whereas some people think glasses make you attractive. But it seems that it used to be thought that not wearing glasses would be better.

[David King Dunaway]

In the 19th century, it became quite common for people to stereotype glasses wearers, and in particular, women. And to me, this is a feminist issue because for centuries women and girls were told glasses make them unattractive and might drive away their suitors. It revealed their age. It revealed a physical weakness on their part. Humorous. Dorothy Parker wrote, men seldom make passes at girls who wear glasses. Things have changed. But one one newspaper commented a century ago that wearing glasses was a bit like brandishing your wooden leg in public.

[Micah Ruthers]

Yeah, well, that's one way to look at it. I wonder if you asked people when they get their picture taken, when they take their glasses off, why do they take their glasses off? What is that accomplishing in their mind?

[David King Dunaway]

Well, I haven't yet been so bold as to walk up to people and pose that question to them. It's the legacy of centuries in which people have been told that glasses might help them see, but they certainly don't help their visual appearance. We see that there have been stereotypes that are well documented in science about how people rate, evaluate, judge people for wearing glasses. Generally speaking, here are the positive and negative perceptions of those behind lenses whom I call glassers, those people who walk around with a lens between them and the world. They're usually judged to be smart, efficient, effective. And some people want that look, and so they wear glasses with plain lenses. On the other hand, they're generally considered to be socially awkward, perhaps in some cosmic sense, defective people who are shy, even religious religiosity is associated with wearing glasses, believe it or not.

[Micah Ruthers]

But one thing that has changed today, it seems. When I was a kid, I remember that kids wore glasses and they went to the eye doctor. It all had a very medical tone to it. Now fashion designers are putting their names on glasses. People seek out glasses, particularly sunglasses that say something, that make a statement. There's fun, different kinds of frames and things that glasses have come out of their shell a little bit. I would, I would say they have.

[David King Dunaway]

And of course, there is a highly elaborate fashion glasses industry amounting to at least $2 billion in sales. You have hit on it. Glasses exist in these two worlds. A medical world where people like myself need them to survive. And growing up without a lot of money, I was forced to just take what I could get at the least possible price. And the most important thing about them was their durability. Today, people have such an array of frames to choose from online, although those don't come with the necessary adjustments you get from your neighborhood optician. And they tend to be an object of consumption. And yes, they've come out of their shell, but what about those of us that still need them to see? And that is huge numbers of tens and hundreds of millions of people in this country alone that aren't looking at them as an accessory like a tie or a barrette, but instead depend on them for their survival. I think we need to respect that and accept that and accept that glasses will always form different, perform different functions. Now, looking ahead, what will we wear in the future? Well, it looks like it will be smart glasses, the first device which will be likely worn as a. As a wearable computer for most people. And this field is surging. It's surging so fast, in fact, that we haven't considered one of the most important things about this new technology. Yes, they'll let us see, but like Google Glass, they'll also let us take pictures and record sound from everything we see as we walk by the street, as we enter someone's home, and then stream those images and sounds to a brother, your mother, friends, the police. So before smart glasses become everywhere and they're doubling in sales each calendar year, I think society is going to have to step up and figure out how we want to protect our privacy.

[Micah Ruthers]

So when did somebody say, hey, you know, we're wearing glasses? What if we tint them so people could wear them in the sun and not have to squint their eyes? That sounds like a really good idea. Who said that?

[David King Dunaway]

Well, we'll never know. But I can tell you that the Chinese were using tinted lenses to protect their eyes from glasses for many thousands of years, although the they did not serve to correct vision. There is a story that The Emperor Nero in Rome, he of the famous fiddle, used to observe sporting contests through a large emerald which served to shade his life, his vision, the same way sunglasses did. Now, in the United States, the first sunglasses appeared on aviators who had the most critical need for them. And even today, the aviator style of glasses, popularized in, in films, is very important and very useful. It's, it's everywhere. You could see it as you walk down the street. The Ray Ban style that the Blues Brothers wore, dark green sunglasses that famous musicians and Hollywood performers use. These are really a product of the 1930s and 40s as people realize that, yes, it sure would be nice to block the intensity of the sun, particularly in a place where that, that sun is so bright as it is in California.

[Micah Ruthers]

So at some point somebody said, well, what if we can correct vision without glasses? And we came up, I guess, with contact lenses. And when did that happen?

[David King Dunaway]

Contact lenses were first invented as a medical device for people whose eyes would not completely close. And they were invented in Switzerland probably in the 1870s around there. The first contact lenses of all were actually made from clipped off pieces of the bottom of test tubes. If you can imagine that, sticking that in your eye. Then starting in the early 20th century, we had various kinds of lenses that were wearable but unbearable. And it isn't really until 1936 or maybe five years after that that the development of high quality plastics allowed the creation of a wearable lens, the so called hard contact lenses. Now starting in the 1970s and 80s, soft contact lenses became available and long duration wear, contact lenses emerged.

[Micah Ruthers]

Do you see a day? I know you're not a doctor, but do you see a day? Because we hear about surgeries that some people think are great and other people, you know, there's mixed results on that. But that at some point this whole idea of fixing vision with lenses will disappear.

[David King Dunaway]

Well, that's a great question. I don't know that that can ever occur. Lasik and other forms of surgery on the eyes work, but they don't work for all people and there are side effects and there are cases where people have to go back for a second and third operation. Everybody's eyes are different and we need to accept that as we look into the future and consider the possibilities for change. I would love to say there's a day when somehow, miraculously, we would all see 2020. I don't think that day is coming within our century.

[Micah Ruthers]

Well, what a fascinating history and I'm so glad we're not buying our eyeglasses from the peddler with the box around his neck asking you how old you are and giving you a pair of glasses. I've been talking with David King Dunaway. He is a professor of English at the University of New Mexico and he's author of a book called A Four Eyed How Glasses Change the Way We See. And he has a website too called a4eyedworld.com and there's a link to his book and to his website in the show notes for this episode. David, thank you. I appreciate you sharing all this with us.

[David King Dunaway]

Thanks. It's been a pleasure working with you.

[Micah Ruthers]

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[Micah Ruthers]

Think about the last time something annoyed you like a bad meal or a surprise hidden fee or a freezing movie theater and you thought about complaining, but then you didn't. You just let it go and moved on. Why is that? Most of us avoid complaining because, well, we don't want to seem difficult or awkward or entitled. But it turns out that not complaining often costs us more than speaking up. And that when you do it the right way, complaining can actually work in your favor. So when should you complain? How do you do it without sounding angry or unreasonable? And what separates a complaint that gets ignored from one that actually leads to a fair outcome? That's what we're going to talk about with Eric Z. He's author of a book called the Art of the Constructive how to Speak up, get heard, and Turn everyday frustrations into fair outcomes. Hey, Eric. Welcome to something you should know.

[Eric Z]

Hi, Mike. Thanks for having me.

[Micah Ruthers]

Sure. So to answer my own question that I just posed a moment ago, the reason I often don't complain, and I do complain sometimes, but. But often I don't complain because it doesn't feel like it's worth it. There's not going to be any big payoff. It's too much trouble. And I think that's how most people feel.

[Eric Z]

I think I can understand and respect that perspective. Where I'd like to challenge that status quo is when you're complaining. Complaining is really just a form of feedback, and complaining's got a negative connotation to it. But if you kind of change that a little bit and, you know, think about it as constructive complaining or constructive feedback, when it's done properly, it's a way to point out what went wrong. Because generally speaking, if you're buying something, enjoying a service, you had some expectation. And if you feel the need to complain, that generally means your expectation wasn't met for whatever reason. And everyone has some off days. But whether it's that restaurant, that supplier, that service provider, you know, they may not even know, know what problems there are or what to go fix, unless you tell them.

[Micah Ruthers]

If you're at a restaurant and you want to complain about something, say, I'm always worried about possible retaliation, you know, like, maybe they'll spit in my food or the service will get even worse. And so I'm wondering, like, maybe you've researched this. Like, generally speaking, what does the waitstaff think when you complain?

[Eric Z]

I think most waitstaff are looking for you to have a good experience. I think in that service industry, you know, where a lot of their wages are made from tips, they're looking to provide high service or a good service for you. I think how you present that feedback makes a big difference. If you are courteous, professional, calm, polite in explaining, you know, where the shortfall is, you know, like, I'm pretty sure I, you know, ordered this, you know, medium well, but this is a little too rare for me. Can you, you know, help me address this? If you say Something like that, in a, in a calm fashion. And your body language mirrors that. You know, that's usually going to entice a favorable, same tone type of reaction from the server. If you are angry and agitated and rude about it, someone can pick up on that pretty quick and they're not really going to want to help you. I think what we're getting at here is most people assume complaining burns bridges, but when done right, with the right tone, you know, a complaint can lower the defenses of the other party, not kind of raise them. So you want to do it in a way that makes the other person lean in, because otherwise, you know, I think we're all conditioned to act unfavorably when we hear about complaints.

[Micah Ruthers]

Right?

[Eric Z]

Nobody wants to hear those.

[Micah Ruthers]

Yeah, well, I don't like to hear complaints, but it's one thing to complain, right? When you complain, you're basically saying something's wrong. This didn't go well. It's another thing to say, and this is what I would like you to do to fix it. This is how to make it right rather than just complain about what went wrong.

[Eric Z]

Again, when you're trying to provide a constructive complaint, you're generally going to try to close the gap between what really happened, reality and what the expectation was. Humor goes a long way just to make it sound human and memorable. And a lot of the times in the context of a complaint, humor is pretty unexpected. So therefore it kind of sticks out and you know, with no threats or no escalation and no, let me speak to a manager in sort of an angry way. You know, if you're asking for something that's comparable, just to really bridge the gap between what you got and what you should have received, you know, you're empowering the person on the other side, whether it's a server or somebody else, the ability to fix a problem. And I do believe, you know, most people, when they're given a chance to fix a problem and they can, they will want to. And therefore that starts to get into, hey, if you complain in a constructive fashion, you highlight the problem, you explain what the impact was, it gives people an opportunity to fix it. And at the end that does make people feel good. I know Mike for a fact, when I can fix things for people, depending on whatever it is, big or small, it feels good to do something kind for somebody.

[Micah Ruthers]

One of my complaints about, well, it's primarily about doctors and that is, you know, you have an appointment for 9 o', clock, you get there at 9 o' clock and you sit in the waiting room till 10 because they've overbooked or people came in and the excuse they give you is usually, well, you know, things happen. But by now it seems like they should have had figured this all out and worked that into the equation. But it doesn't really seem like they care much that you've had to wait an hour for your nine o' clock appointment. And you know, I'm sorry that. But too bad. And what are they going to do in those situations?

[Eric Z]

And I've been on the personal end experience that as well. And I'll share something that did give me a little preferential scheduling. So what I had done in that situation was I had explained to the front desk person that, you know, can you try to understand my perspective? Because when I come in not even an hour late, let's call it 15 minutes late, you know, only 25% of that threshold. If I come in 15 minutes late, your policy is to rebook me. You won't even honor the appointment if I'm 15 minutes late and for some reason I'm not treated the same way. If I come here on time and I end up waiting 15, 30, 45 minutes. You don't hold yourself to the same standard as you hold me, the patient, and I'm the one paying you for the service. Have you considered what that looks like for everyone in the waiting room here? And when I had this discussion with the front office manager, who of course isn't the physician. Right. They're kind of providing that support service, you know, they genuinely did not see or cared about that perspective. But I knew that when I provided that feedback, they were listening because, you know, I could see the facial expressions. It didn't do anything in the moment to change the outcome because, you know, I was in fact there for 30, 45 minutes and it was, you know, at my allergist's office. But after that, over time, I did notice I really didn't wait that long. So sometimes, you know, people don't really see the issue from the other side. And if your constructive complaint helps them reframe the issue and see it from a different perspective. Right. That that's the age old cliche of walk a mile in someone else's shoes before you, I think that can really make a difference.

[Micah Ruthers]

You know, what I find interesting is that you would think those people, like that office manager you talk to has been in your situation. Like, how does she not see this? Because hasn't she gone to the doctor and had the same problem? But like you say that she's like, scratching her head, going, gee, I never thought about that. Well, hasn't it happened to her?

[Eric Z]

Without a doubt.

[Micah Ruthers]

Right.

[Eric Z]

But I. I think, you know, we are all creatures of habit. Right? And the more you do things, the more you settle in and it. I love cliches. Right. And it's the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Right. Like you. You sometimes, you just need a reminder that, hey, hey, this thing is squeaky. We got to do something about it. Because, you know, people are different. Some people are very proactive. They jump to take a preventative mindset, but not everyone's that way.

[Micah Ruthers]

Let me speak to a manager. Is that a good approach? I guess, obviously it's going to depend on the situation, but people very often go straight to that because they figure, you know, let's get up the food chain here and talk to somebody with some authority before they talk to the frontline people. I don't know if that's a good idea or not.

[Eric Z]

I don't think that's the best place to start. Because with that comment, let me speak to a manager, you are automatically putting that person that you're speaking with on the defensive. You are assuming that they're not empowered to make decisions or have authority. So you're therefore immediately escalating and not even giving them a chance to fix the issue at hand. Right. That goes back to what we were talking about earlier. You know, can you do something in the moment? Because in the moment, the manager is likely not standing there. Right. If it's a restaurant, it's the server. So right off the bat, you are starting with a, I don't respect you. I don't think you have authority. Let me go find somebody else. Like, that's likely what they are to perceive. Right. So you're already starting off on the wrong foot. I think giving them a chance is probably the better approach. And if the outcome or what they're able to authorize or provide you, if that doesn't close the gap between what you expected and reality, then your escalation path is, you know, speaking with the manager for something else. Right.

[Micah Ruthers]

And yet going higher up, getting somebody who really has some authority can pay off. I mean, I've used it before, and it's paid off. It can make things happen.

[Eric Z]

Let's talk about United Airlines as an example. I'm pretty loyal to them. I've been flying with them for a very long time. But gate agents and flight attendants, you know, they only have a certain threshold of authority that they've been delegated you know, maybe it's something like a free drink or, you know, 5,000 bonus miles or, you know, something like that. But United actually has a customer care department that takes care of other more serious things that someone on the front line can't. You lost a bag, your bag's delayed. You know, your flight's been delayed three hours, and the compensation you're asking, asking for is, you know, not just a free drink or 5,000 bonus miles or a $25 credit. Right. You may have to go to a different group, but that centralized customer care department, you know, they're not going to be at the gate. Right. So in some instances, depending on what it is, you got to understand you might not get the resolution on the spot and you might have to ask for it in another way.

[Micah Ruthers]

And yeah, there is something about trying to get resolution on the spot that's gratifying, but it just may not happen. But I've had plenty of cases where I've written a letter later and gotten a very good result. It just took some time, but the result was decent. Not always, but it's happened. And I guess it depends on. Let's talk about complaint letters. Who do you send it to? Because it seems like if you just send it to some generic complaint department, not much is going to happen. So how do you figure out, like, how to navigate that letter? And then what does it say?

[Eric Z]

Generally speaking, I've always sent it to the corporate office. You know, whether it's a restaurant, an airline, a utility company, I generally always send it to the office of the CEO. I always address it to the CEO because that person is leading the company. They're the person in charge. Figurehead. I never expect that person to read the letter. Once upon a time, the very first complaint letter I sent was to kfc, so CEO of Yum Foods. But I didn't expect them to read it. They have corporate secretaries, corporate departments that kind of handle correspondence, customer service. But what you can safely presume is if you mail something there or if you send something there, they'll get it to the right place, and that's what really matters. I think a complaint letter needs to have a couple of key components, right? It's got to have what went wrong. It's got to be specific on what you expected, what you got, and why it was an impact to you. I think that's also very important. Right. Said another way, if you weren't impacted by the shortfall, then there's nothing to try to resolve because you weren't impacted. Right. So if your flight was two hours late, but there's no impact to you, then does it matter that you lost two hours? If, on the other hand, you know, you had a very important, you know, client meeting or a charity dinner or something, and that lateness, which was not weather related or specifically caused by something, you know, and you explained the impact was, you know, I had to pay an extra whatever or incur this hardship, you know, if that's proportional to the impact, then someone may try to do something about it. I think humor also goes a long way in kind of just making someone feel like, okay, this is, you know, not just an angry complaint, so I want to lean in and help this person.

[Micah Ruthers]

I don't know if it's fair to say that you complain a lot, but you are obviously more comfortable in using complaints as a way of getting what you want. And so since you probably do it more than many of us do, how successful are you? What's your batting average?

[Eric Z]

Oh, that's a great question. It's pretty high. It's north of 50%. I would say it's probably even closer to 80, 85%. I don't want to turn this into bragging about getting free stuff, but I have had complete meals replaced, experiences compensated, so I could, you know, redo the experience. Airfares kind of reimbursed, you know, at the face value of the ticket because, you know, it was, you know, such a big impact and such a delay. I will say I've had tremendous success.

[Micah Ruthers]

And you have better success with letters than with phone calls?

[Eric Z]

Yes. I think letters are easier to kind of put together because phone calls, you really need to be articulate. And, you know, you're kind of on the spot. You don't have as much of a chance to, you know, frame what happened, what fell short, how to make it right. You know, you have a lot more time to kind of think and plan, and it's not exactly in the moment. If you're prepared and you're passionate and you feel like there's been this big grievance, a phone call can go a long way. I will say I've been successful using both. I think talking to a service center, a call center, someone like Xfinity, Comcast as an example. I've had great success over the phone because I was able to speak with someone and articulate what the issue was. And when they asked, well, how about this? What about, did you do something like that? You can provide a follow up right away. So if what you're complaining about requires A dialogue. That dialogue in a phone call might be better if you're looking to provide feedback on what to do different next time. Sometimes face to face or a phone call where you're actually talking to someone, I think is also helpful. So I think your experience can vary and it really depends on what you're complaining about.

[Micah Ruthers]

But it does seem like people on the phone are really just trying to placate you and move on to the next customer. Where if you send a letter to the top guy, seems like that gets a little more attention by somebody who has a little more authority and they know that you took the time to write. The setting is set. The place is set for a better resolution than screaming and yelling on the phone.

[Eric Z]

That's absolutely true. And on a phone call, depending on how the other person is speaking to you, it's very easy to get triggered. Right. Because if they're not listening and accepting the feedback that you're laying down, it's easy for you. You to get riled up. And sometimes your emotions can get the better of you and then you don't get the positive outcome that you're seeking.

[Micah Ruthers]

Right.

[Eric Z]

So written correspondence kind of helps you avoid a lot of that.

[Micah Ruthers]

Well, given your track record of getting compensated more times than you don't you set up maybe up to 85%. Certainly gives people reason to consider that complaining, if you do it right, can well be worth it. I've been talking with Eric Z. And the name of his book is the Art of the Constructive how to Speak Up, Get Heard and Turn Everyday Frustrations into Fair Outcomes. And there's a link to his book at Amazon in the show notes. Hey, Eric, great. Thank you for sharing what you know. I swear this happens to me all the time. See if you can relate. You walk into a room with laser focus, and as soon as you walk into the room, you forget why you came in. And believe it or not, it's not dementia. It's not inattention. It's your brain doing something called event segmentation. Cognitive scientists have shown that every time you cross a boundary, like a doorway, your brain creates what they call a new event boundary. That boundary acts like a file separator in your memory. The stuff you were just thinking about gets shoved into one folder, and a fresh new folder gets started when you walk into the next room. The result is that what you intended to remember becomes harder to access, even though it was right on the top of your mind moments earlier. In a classic study, researchers had people carry objects through different spaces. Those who went through a doorway were measurably worse at recalling what it was they were carrying than those who walked the same distance without crossing a doorway. And I suspect it happens to just about everybody from time to time. And that is something you should know. If you enjoyed this episode, I hope you will share it with a friend. Just make it a point today to tell one person and it would really help us a lot. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know.

[Vulgar History Podcast Host]

Oh the Regency Era. You might know it as the time when Bridgerton takes place or the time when Jane Austen wrote her books, but the Regency era was also an explosive time of social change, sex scandals, and maybe the worst king in British history. And on the Vulgar History podcast, we're going to be looking at the balls, the gowns, and all the scandal of the Regency era. Vulgar History is a women's history podcast and our Regency Era series will be focusing on the most rebellious women of this time. That includes Jane Austen herself, who is maybe more radical than you might have thought. We'll also be talking about queer icons like Anne Lister, scientists like Mary Anning and Ada Lovelace, as well as other scandalous actresses, royal mistresses, rebellious princesses, and other lesser known figures who made history happen in England in the Regency era. Listen to Vulgar History wherever you get Podcasts.

[All About TRH Podcast Host]

If Bravo drama, pop culture, chaos and honest takes are your love language, you'll want All About TRH Podcast in your feed. Hosted by Roxanne and Chantal, this show breaks down Real Housewives, reality tv, and the moments everyone's group chat is arguing about. Roxanne's been spilling Bravo tea since 2010 and yes, we've interviewed Housewives royalty like Countess Luanna and Teresa Giudice, smart recaps, insider energy, and zero Fluff. Listen to All About Tragedy podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen. New episodes weekly.