← Something You Should Know
Something You Should Know
Real Reasons for Your Strange Thoughts & How Small Acts Change Lives
00:49:42
Loading summary
Transcript83 lines
- [00:02]
Mike Carruthers
On WhatsApp, no one can see or.
- [00:04]
Jen Martin
Hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or.
- [00:08]
Mike Carruthers
Sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this.
- [00:13]
Jen Martin
So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically.
- [00:19]
Mike Carruthers
Become a podcast, your personal messages stay.
- [00:22]
Jen Martin
Between you, your friends and your family.
- [00:25]
Tommy Spaulding
No one else, not even us.
- [00:27]
Mike Carruthers
WhatsApp message privately with everyone.
- [00:32]
Tommy Spaulding
Today on something you should know when you have a big decision, is it really a good idea to sleep on it? Then the science behind some of those weird feelings you get, like the feeling you're being watched or that feeling of being in the zone or in the flow.
- [00:48]
Jen Martin
Really interesting research has shown that people, when they're fully in the flow, they're actually shutting off some of their really high power thinking parts of their brain. So you end up in this state where you're not actually kind of self monitoring and judging anymore, you're just doing what comes natural.
- [01:04]
Tommy Spaulding
Also, one phrase a good negotiator will never say and the power you have to change people's lives for the better.
- [01:13]
Rebecca Spencer
Every morning you can wake up, you can think about the people in your life who's going through a divorce, who's got a son that's got depression, who's got a 50th wedding anniversary. We can have an opportunity to have an influence on their lives, or we can just walk on by all this.
- [01:27]
Tommy Spaulding
Today on something you should know. You know, it's interesting, if you own or run a business, you're just sort of expected to know how to hire people. Well, sorry, I've been in that position. Maybe you have too. Hiring is a lot harder than it looks and the results are too high stakes. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. With Indeed, you don't have to struggle to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored jobs help you stand out so you can hire fast. With Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps right to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you reach the right people faster. Look, if you feel real confident, like you can hire someone all on your own and nail it, great. But it's so much better to have INDEED guide you through the process. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, there are no monthly subscriptions, no long term contracts. You just pay for results. Millions of businesses use Indeed. In fact, in the minute I've been Talking to you, 23 hires were made on Indeed, according to Indeed Data Worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your Hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com something just go to Indeed.com something right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com something terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Something you should know Fascinating intel, the.
- [03:14]
Rebecca Spencer
World'S top experts and practical advice you can use in your life today.
- [03:20]
Tommy Spaulding
Something you Should Know with Mike Carruthers hi welcome to Something you should Know. I'm sure you've heard the advice that before you make a big decision, you should sleep on it. Well, there is actually some scientific support for the sleep on it approach. Researchers at the University of Massachusetts Amherst briefly exposed a group of people to the Iowa Gambling Test, which is a widely accepted game of decision making. After people briefly saw the test, half of the subjects then took the test right away and the other half took it after a good night's sleep. The group that slept on it did noticeably better. Rebecca Spencer, author of the study, explains that sleep fine tunes our memory and sharpens learning. She says while we sleep, we're actually revisiting a lot of information that we've stored, giving the logical data a better chance to take hold and prevail. So in general, sleeping on a decision before you make it will bring a better decision. And that is something you should know. I think all of us have these strange experiences in life that we notice but can't explain. And what I mean by that are things like the feeling of being watched. Or that feeling sometimes when you're just in the zone and you can do no wrong. Or why it's hard to maintain eye contact with someone when you're talking to them. Or why you remember things in your life that actually didn't happen. So why do we have these experiences? Well, there's some science behind it, some really interesting science and someone who has researched this is Jen Martin. She is an award winning educator at the University of Melbourne in Australia and she's author of the book why am I Like this? The science behind your Weirdest Thoughts and Habits. Hi Jen, welcome to something you should know.
- [05:23]
Jen Martin
Thanks so much for having me. Delighted to be here with you.
- [05:27]
Tommy Spaulding
So let's start with that feeling that I've sometimes had it that even though I think I'm alone, I feel like I'm being watched. Is that a pretty universal experience I imagine?
- [05:40]
Jen Martin
Yeah. No, I think it is. Research suggests that about 94% of people have had that experience of you actually feel like you're being, being stared at. But then interestingly, when you look up, you discover that it's true. So you sort of feel like you have this sixth sense, and this has been studied for hundreds of years, that we have this very intense feeling that someone's watching us. And of course, you know, that could just be, it could be a self fulfilling prophecy that because you're feeling uncomfortable, you feel like you're being watched, that you're kind of fidgeting. And that means that the person sitting near you on the train does actually look at you. You know, there's, there's all sorts of possibilities here, but there's a really interesting, really interesting research that shows that our brains might be absolutely hardwired to recognize when people are looking at us, even when our eyes don't see them looking at us. The idea came from a study of a man who, who was known in the literature, in the scientific literature as tn. And he has this very interesting condition as a result of having had two strokes. So if you can imagine his eyes are functional, there's nothing wrong with his eyes, and his eyes still send information to his brain, but the part of his brain that deals with that visual information, if you like, has been damaged. So his eyes and his brain essentially don't connect. So he doesn't actually see anything through his eyes. And the researchers did some really interesting studies where they put a monitor in front of him and showed him pictures of faces on that monitor. Some people looking directly at him, some people looking off to the side, and at the same time they're measuring what's going on in his brain, the, the part of his brain that's in charge of emotions and recognizing faces. And remember, this person can't actually consciously see these pictures. So to him, he can't tell you whether this picture in front of him is a man or a woman, whether they're looking at him, whether they're looking in a different direction, but his brain could tell. So his brain knew when someone was looking at him even when he couldn't actually see it consciously, which is just amazing. So it may be that we've evolved to be so finely tuned to when somebody is looking at us that we don't actually even have to see it with our own eyes.
- [07:58]
Tommy Spaulding
Well, certainly humans do have pretty good eyesight and it has served us well during our evolution.
- [08:05]
Jen Martin
It was obviously hugely advantageous for us to know when somebody was looking at us because we needed to be able to work out really quickly this person who's paying us attention. You Know, are they a friend or a foe? Is this somebody who's going to be able to help me or is this someone who's about to attack me? And so our brains are just really good at recognizing that. And the other interesting thing to notice about that is, you know, when you look at a person, obviously there's the colored part of our eye, but we obviously also have a very clear white part around our eye. And that means that even from a distance, you're really good at working out whether somebody is looking straight at you or they're looking in a different direction because you can see how much of the white of their eye is visible. No other primates, so our closest relatives, the apes, none of them have that white patch around their eye. So that is something specific to being human that we always want to be able to tell, is this person looking at us or not looking at us?
- [09:01]
Tommy Spaulding
Something I've always been interested in is that feeling of when you're working in the zone, when everything just is working. Because I think we've all had that. Some have it more than others. But boy, when it's happening, it's just magic.
- [09:17]
Jen Martin
Yeah, I know. And don't you wish you could have it more often? So tell. Describe to me what being in the zone feels like to you.
- [09:25]
Tommy Spaulding
It just, it's usually, you know, work related or sometimes it's, you know, sports. But boy, it just, it feels like you could just go forever and you can do no wrong.
- [09:35]
Jen Martin
And isn't it a nice phrase that it's been called being in the zone? That term was coined by a Hungarian psychologist back in 1990. And as you say, when you're in that zone, you're just completely immersed in what you're doing and you just lose track of time, you lose track of anything that's going on around you. And I imagine you feel the same as I do, that you just feel highly skilled or whatever you're doing, you sort of have this sense of mastery which is so rewarding. What the research tells us is that there's absolutely a relationship between how difficult a task is and how good at it you are. So if you're trying to do something that's just way beyond you and is really difficult and you can't actually achieve it, you're much more likely to end up feeling really frustrated or anxious than you are to end up feeling in a state of flow. But equally, if the task you're doing is really easy, you're going to end up bored and disinterested. You're not going to end up fully immersed and engrossed. So it's all about this sweet spot. You don't want to be bored, but you don't want to be stressed. You want to feel challenged, but you want to have this sense of confidence that you can actually achieve what you want to achieve. And really interesting research has shown that people, when they're fully in the flow, they're actually shutting off some of their really high power thinking parts of their brain. And so you end up in this state where you're not actually kind of self monitoring and judging anymore, more you're just doing what comes, what feels natural. And so they've scanned the brains of jazz players, for example. So picture someone sitting down at the piano, they're improvising. And you know, these people actually are no longer planning. They're not thinking consciously about what they're doing, they're not judging themselves, they're not self censoring, they don't feel any sense of inhibition. They're just playing. And we know that our brain waves change. We, we become really quite different when we're in that zone. We get flooded with endorph and then the chemicals that we get flooded with make us feel, you know, able to focus better. We get to link ideas, we become more creative. I mean, you know, this is, this is a brilliant, brilliant place to be. And I know a lot of people train themselves to try and get into the zone. I don't know how it is for you, but for me personally, I don't think I've got to that stage, but I just enjoy it whenever I manage to feel that way.
- [11:57]
Tommy Spaulding
Yeah, I know that when I'm in the zone, it feels so natural and normal. And I wonder, why can't I capture this in a bottle? Why can't I pull this out of my hat whenever I need it? But like you, I mean, I just. It comes when it comes and it doesn't come when it doesn't come. Another one that I really want to hear the story about is because again, I think it happens to everybody. You go get something in the kitchen because you need to go get it. And you walk in the kitchen and you cannot remember why you came in. And it's maddening, but it seems very universal.
- [12:36]
Jen Martin
I think it's absolutely universal. And scientists have done some really interesting research into how that can be. You're in one room, you have very clear idea of why you need to walk into the next room. And then by the time you got there, which is what all of a couple of seconds later, as you say, you just have no idea anymore. So researchers have done computer games and then in real life. So imagine people in a study, they're walking, They've been asked to pick up and put down particular objects. And the way they managed this in the study was that the people had to put these objects into a box so they couldn't see what it was. And then as soon as they walked into another room, so they'd walked through a doorway, they were two or three times more likely to forget what it was that they had in their box, even if they'd only picked it up 20, 30 seconds before. But if they'd walked through a doorway, they were much more likely to forget what it was. And so essentially there's. Yeah, the research shows us that this is now known as the doorway effect. And basically it tells us some really interesting stuff about how our memories work. So you think about your memory. Obviously your memory is divided up into particular events. You don't. As we were talking about a little while ago, you don't have a continuous perfect recall of your life. It's not like our memories are kind of video recorders recording everything. And so at any one time, you know you have a certain amount of information because you're in a particular event, but then obviously, you know you're going to move on to a new event, and you can't hold on to all of the information from what you've just been doing previously. You don't have enough space in your brain. And so essentially, once this particular event that you're in is over, your brain discards some of the information that it doesn't think is relevant anymore. So you've got space to remember new, more relevant things. And so that raises the question then of how does your brain decide when one particular event is over and a new one has begun? And this research shows very clearly that walking through a doorway is clearly a signal to our brains something new has happened. What happened before you know that was relevant in the previous space that you were in, it's probably not relevant now. So get rid of the old information so you've got room for the new. And researchers found that even just imagining walking through a door, not even physically doing it, was enough to make people forget things more easily.
- [15:03]
Tommy Spaulding
We're talking about why you have the weird thoughts and habits that you have. And we're talking with Jen Martin. She's author of the book why Am I Like the Science behind you'd Weirdest thoughts and habits upgrade your learning experience During Dell Technologies back to school event with AI PCs like the Dell 14 plus, featuring an Intel Core Ultra processor starting at $749.99. Supercharge your studies with features like real time notes, transcription, a accelerated hardware to run multiple apps without slowing down, extended battery life, and more. That's the power of new AI PCs with Intel inside. Discover a smarter way to learn@dell.com deals that's Dell.com deals. Have you ever had that experience? Well, everyone's had this experience. You buy some clothes online, they get delivered, you open it up and then there's that wave of, of disappointment. The quality's poor or it doesn't fit or the fabric's not what you thought. It's such a letdown. Well, that has never happened. When I or my wife order clothes from Quince, Quince has the kind of stuff you'll actually wear on repeat, like breathable flow knit polos, crisp cotton shirts, and comfortable lightweight pants that somehow work for every occasion. And the best part, everything with Quince is half the cost of similar brands. You see, by working directly with top artisans and cutting out the middlemen, Quince gives you luxury clothes without the markups. Now, since I started buying clothes from Quince, I really, I haven't bought clothes from anywhere else. And each time the clothes arrive, I'm always delighted and never disappointed. And you know something weird? When I tell people about how great Quince is and how I love buying clothes from them, I often hear back, oh, Quince. Yeah, I shop there. I love them. Stick to the staples that last with elevated essentials from Quince. Go to quince.comsysk for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N C E.comSYSK to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comSYSK so, Jen, let's talk about eye contact, because I think that's something I've always found interesting is like, it's really tricky and it's hard to maintain and too much is creepy and too little is off putting and it's weird.
- [17:44]
Jen Martin
Yeah, eye contact's interesting, isn't it? So my day job is to teach scientists how to communicate more effectively. So I spend a lot of my time teaching students how to give better talks. And of course, one of the things that we talk about a lot when we're thinking about public speaking is making eye contact that it's really good. It encourages an audience to feel connected with you. It helps people to trust you. Making eye contact with an audience is really important. But the vast majority of our students find that actually when they're thinking carefully about what it is that they want to say next, they actually have to look away. They find it almost impossible to maintain eye contact with somebody when they're. When they need to think. And so it turns out that actually, you know, that the more our brains are working away on a task, the more likely it is that we feel this really intense need to look away from someone's eyes. Not because we're embarrassed or we're shy, just because actually it's so mentally stimulating to maintain eye contact with someone that our brains just completely become overloaded. And so if you need to be able to think clearly, you look away. So there's eye contact is this really interesting balance that we know. We judge people more positively, at least in Western cultures, I should point out, we judge people as being more likable and more trustworthy if they make eye contact with us. But similarly, we can't maintain eye contact all the time. So, as you say, it's a really tricky thing. And seeing somebody's eyes, like we were talking about before, we're so tuned to whether people are watching us or not that eye contact has become this very important kind of social signal.
- [19:32]
Tommy Spaulding
So I know it's common for people to talk about that sensation. That time seems to go by faster as you get older. And I know there are different theories as to why people have that sensation.
- [19:47]
Jen Martin
One of them is called the proportionality theory. And it's a really simple argument that basically says a year seems to pass much, much faster when you're 40 than when you were 4. Because, you know, when you're 40, a year is only a 40th of your life compared to a quarter of your life. But the research suggests that it's. It's actually much more than that. And that's because when you were younger, you are having lots of new experiences all the time. You know, you tried new foods for the first time. You meeting new people far more. You were doing new things all the time. And so you end up having these really dense, full, rich memories because there was so much going on. But of course, as we get older, we tend to become more creatures of habit. We tend to see the same people more often. If you've got a job, even if your job has some variety, there's going to be a lot more kind of habit and routine in your life. And so the memories that we make just aren't as. Aren't as busy there's not as much going on. So when we look back over our childhood, because we have these really busy, dense, full memories, we feel like our childhood took a really long time. Whereas if you look back over recent years, probably you didn't have as much variety in your life. And so the time feels like it's passed really, really quickly. So, so the clear answer, if you want to feel like time is not just disappearing really quickly as you age, is to actively seek out more new and different experiences. So, you know, go on a holiday, eat different food, meet new people, listen to different music, whatever it is, but just bring some novelty into your life. So I really like that idea. I mean, there's. Look, I could talk about any of these topics till the cows come home. They're all stories that I chose particularly because I think they're, they're fascinating. And knowing some of the science behind the questions, not only does it get rid of the kind of urban myths and the old wives tales, but it gives people some information, you know, on which to base their decisions. And I think science is relevant to all of us, which is why I love what I do so much. We all need to have access to science.
- [21:52]
Tommy Spaulding
One of the experiences that you write about and you talk about that I don't think I've ever experienced is the idea that you remember things that never happened. And so what do you mean by that?
- [22:07]
Jen Martin
Yeah, well, it's a really interesting one because I think we all tend to think that our memories are pretty much infallible. We recognize that we can't remember everything that goes on in our lives as just too much. So we tend to be aware that we remember particularly emotional experiences or particularly joy. Joyful experiences. So we accept that our brains probably don't remember everything. But I, surprisingly, I agree with you. There's actually lots of evidence to show that we do construct memories. You know, we fill the gaps and we make lots of mistakes. And so the research that I was talking about was looking into researchers who've gone out particularly trying to implant false memories with, in people. And it turns out that is, it's not that hard to do. There's kind of a recipe you can follow. And you know that these psychologists ended up being able to convince people that they'd had a ride in a hot air balloon, even when they never had, by kind of, you know, photoshopping photos and showing them pictures of people in the hot air balloons and then getting them to kind of go through this, you know, imagined exercise. But then, you know, so that's kind of you think, oh, yeah, well that, that's okay. That would be quite nice. What difference would it make in my life? But of course, this whole ide can have a really nasty dark turn. If you then read about the research where people, researchers could get people to commit to crimes that they'd actually never committed. You know, it's, it's kind of scary to think that if you, if you're a little bit prone to suggestion, which is what the research shows, that you can be convinced you've done things that you never, never did.
- [23:43]
Tommy Spaulding
Why does silence calm me? I think that's pretty universal, that silence will calm anybody down. Why? Is it self evident or is there something going on there?
- [23:55]
Jen Martin
I mean, I think there's two issues here. One is that a lot of people don't allow space for silence in their lives. They're always talking to people or listening to music or listening to podcasts or audio books. But of course there's also the point that people, many people don't get to choose to live in quiet places. So there was a report back in 2011 from the world Health Organization looking at the burden of disease from, from. No. And they came out with some pretty shocking statistics. They reckon that at least 1 million healthy life years are lost every year. This is in, this was in Western Europe from people having to live with traffic related noise. So they found that one in five people were constantly exposed to levels of noise from the environment around them that were considered really harmful to their health. And so this, the, the research was showing that being exposed to noise all the time, or often, which we call noise pollution, it cause high blood pressure and heart disease and difficulty concentrating. Obviously sleep problems is not surprising. And so the research looked, you know, what happens when we're exposed to silence. And in fact, the earliest studies here, it wasn't even what people were looking for. So it was about 15 years ago that people, scientists wanted to look at how music affects people physiologically. So what does it do to our heart rate? What does it do to our blood pressure? And so they played people different types of music styles and in order to allow people, you know, so they were looking at what sort of a physiological response people had to this music. And because they wanted people to kind of have the opportunity to reset between, you know, the jazz and the rock or whatever it was, they had a two minute track of silence in between. And the most interesting thing to come from this study wasn't how people responded to the tempo or the rhythm of, or the melody of the music. It was the fact that people had a major response to the silence. Silence. So during this silence, people relaxed in a way that they never relaxed when listening to music. So our brains seem to really depend. Both our physical and our mental health seem to really depend on having access to quiet. And other studies have shown this in mice as well. The idea is that if you're feeling stressed and overwhelmed and exhausted, if you can find silence, then it's really good for you. Your brain will respond very positively to having some quiet in your life.
- [26:20]
Tommy Spaulding
Well, I know I've said several times in our discussion that this experience or that experience seems pretty universal because I've talked to so many people about most of everything we've just talked about. And everybody has these experiences and probably has theories as to why we do what we do. But it's interesting to hear the science behind it. Jen Martin has been my guest. The name of her book is why am I Like this? This the Science behind your Weirdest Thoughts and Habits. And there's a link to that book in the show Notes. Thanks for being here Jen.
- [26:54]
Jen Martin
Thanks so much for inviting me. I really appreciate.
- [26:59]
Mike Carruthers
Can be overwhelming to manage a business, especially when you're first starting out. Your to do list just keeps growing every day with new tasks and that list can easily begin to overrun your life. Finding the right tool not only helps you out, but can simplify problems you haven't even encountered yet. And for millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify can help you easily build a beautiful online store to match your brand's style. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com realm. Go to shopify.com realm shopify.com realm.
- [28:16]
Jen Martin
When.
- [28:16]
Mike Carruthers
It comes to makeup, I'm a less is more kind of person. I wish I had the patience to do a full face all the time, but since that's just how I am, I always make sure that the few products I am using are the best quality. And my go to place to find those holy grails is Thrive Cosmetics Thrive cosmetics makes certified, 100% vegan and cruel cruelty free products that you can depend on for everything from simple daily wear to show stopping self expression. And it's all made with clean skin loving ingredients, high performance and trademarked formulas and uncompromising standards. And it's beauty that gives back. For every product purchased, Thrive Cosmetics makes a donation towards eight major causes including those impacted by cancer, homelessness and social justice organizations. It feels good knowing that I can can support a company dedicated to giving back to causes that matter to me. And it doesn't hurt that I'm a huge fan of their Liquid Lash Extensions Mascara. It comes in five shades that last all day without clumping, smudging or flaking. I really love that it looks like Lash extensions but you don't have to deal with the damaging glue or salon prices. Plus at the end of the day it slides right off with warm water and a washcloth. No soap required. So there's no wonder why it has a over 40,000 5 star reviews including mine. Try your new trusty favorites with an exclusive set for our listeners. New customers can get the Liquid Lash Extensions Mascara and a mini sized brilliant eye brightener at a special set price with free shipping. Available at thrivecosmetics.com thrive or save more with 20% off your first order at thrivecosmetics.com thrive that's thrivecosmetics c-a u s e m e t-I c s.com thrive for 20% off your first order.
- [30:11]
Tommy Spaulding
You influence other people all the time to a greater or lesser extent and in a positive or not so positive way. Yet we often don't stop to think about how it is we influence others. But actually we're about to with Tommy Spalding. Tommy is an author and speaker, former CEO and president of Up With People and his latest book is called the Gift of Influence. Creating life changing and lasting impact in your everyday interactions. Hey Tommy, Welcome.
- [30:43]
Rebecca Spencer
Thank you so much for having me.
- [30:45]
Tommy Spaulding
Sure, sure. So explain what you mean about how we influence others and why this is important to talk about and understand.
- [30:53]
Rebecca Spencer
So every human being on this planet has an opportunity to influence people. Research shows that there are actually 2.8 people a day that we meet every day of our lives. If you take that and multiply that by 365 days times 78 years of our lives, which is average life expectancy, that's 80,000 people. So in our lives we get a chance to influence 80,000 people and the question is, will you have a positive influence or a negative influence on those People.
- [31:23]
Tommy Spaulding
When I think about most of my interactions throughout the day, I don't think of them as well. Some of them may be, but I don't know that I'm influencing people so much as that I'm just interacting with them and, and that's kind of how you get through the day.
- [31:40]
Rebecca Spencer
But every morning you can wake up and you can think about the people in your life. Just 10 people. Who's going through a divorce, who's going through bankruptcy, who's got a son that's got depression, who's got a 50th wedding anniversary. Everyone in our lives has a story and we can have an opportunity to follow up with that story and get to know people and reach out to people and have an influence on their lives. Or we can just walk on by. I mean, my son is 14 years old, Mike, and he's a hockey player and we dropped him off at boarding school three weeks ago. I never thought in a million years that we'd be sending our 14 year old son to boarding school, but he's passionate about hockey and, and we dropped him off three weeks ago. I didn't want to cry. I wanted to be strong for him because it was tough to drop him off and I wanted to be strong for my wife, Jill. When we went to the airport to fly home, we had a little lunch at the airport in Minneapolis and then I told Jill I'd meet her at the gate.
- [32:32]
Tommy Spaulding
Gate.
- [32:33]
Rebecca Spencer
When I was walking to the gate and there was a young woman at a table there at the coffee shop just bawling, I mean, crying, and she was writing a letter and I just walked on by. I got to the gate and I thought to myself, that's one of my 2.8 people. That's, that's one of the 2.8 people in my day that I could meet and I could have an influence on. And so I just turned around, Mike and I went right back to that coffee shop. I didn't ask to sit down. I just pull up the chair and sat right down and said to her, rough day. And she just started crying and she said she's from London and her boyfriend's from Minneapolis and they have this long distance relationship and that's not working and they're breaking up and it's, it's hurtful and she's writing them a goodbye letter. And so I kind of leaned into her and said, well, I just dropped off my 14 year old boy two hours ago and it's been a rough day and, and we just basically started crying and gave her a hug. But I never got this lady's phone number or contact information. But I know that I made a huge influence in her life because I didn't walk on by. I turned around and was there for somebody. That's the kind of influence that we have an opportunity every day to have on the lives of others.
- [33:43]
Tommy Spaulding
I guess one of the reasons people walk on by when they see that is that often or I don't know how often, but. But sometimes when you ask somebody, are you okay? Or, you know, sit down and try to talk to them, they'll say, you know, this is none of your business. Leave me alone.
- [34:00]
Rebecca Spencer
Yep. And when you meet those people, you say, you're right. I hope you had a good day. And you. And you walk out, and then you walk away. I mean, there's three types of people in the world. There's leaders, followers, and critics. The world's full of critics. This world's full of naysayers. The world's full of negative people. The people that you're talking about that just don't want to be. Be touched or influenced. You got to focus on the 95% of people that would just welcome a positive influence, a positive smile, a positive gesture into their lives.
- [34:31]
Tommy Spaulding
And so how do you initiate that without, again, looking like you're kind of butting into their business? How do you approach that? What's the strategy?
- [34:42]
Rebecca Spencer
So when you have a genuine care for people, that. That's first and foremost. And everyone has a story. I mean, every single human being has a story. And most of us don't take the time to listen to their story. When you say, hi, how are you? And they say, fine. They say, well, what's going on in your life? And they say, well, here's what's going on in my life. My son's got depression, and I'm really struggling with that. And blah, blah, blah, like, everyone has a story. But we move so fast, we're so transactional, we forget to stop and hear people's story. And that's the first part of positive influence.
- [35:18]
Tommy Spaulding
When someone says to you, my son has depression. I'm struggling with that. Or whatever. What is it you say, and what is it you hope to accomplish other than to just let this guy know that you stopped to say hi or whatever? I mean, what's the purpose other than that? That.
- [35:38]
Rebecca Spencer
Yeah. So when. If someone ever admitted that. That their son had depression or someone opened up when I asked how their day was, I would say to them, which is factual. My older stepson who's at West Point Military Academy, struggle with depression and you know, mental challenge, mental illness. And I've lived through it for, for most of my life. And by sharing that, it's vulnerability when they share something vulnerable and then I share something vulnerable. That's how you have connectivity. If you just talk about NSW Mike, which is new sports weather, I mean every relationship you have, all you talk about how the weather is, how the New York Yankees are doing, it's transactional. To have deeper, more meaningful relationships you have to get vulnerable. And when you're, when you're vulnerable with people, it's, it's contagious, they want to be vulnerable back and that's how you start forming more, deeper, more meaningful relationships. And that's how you have a real influence on the lives of others. When you can share a little about your story and have the interest in hearing their story as well.
- [36:40]
Tommy Spaulding
Do you ever find that this, that it gets exhausting? I mean, do you turn it off? And sometimes when you walk through the airport and you see someone like that, you go, I'm just not in the mood today.
- [36:52]
Rebecca Spencer
Absolutely. I mean, when I get on that airplane, the first thing I do is I put my AirPods on because I don't want to talk to the person sitting next to me. It doesn't make me a mean person. But I just signed, you know, a thousand books or did a speech or worked with a client all day and I'm exhausted. So you do have to turn it off and find that time for with you. But you have to be intentional. You can't have a life changing impact in every single interaction of your life. But most of us go through every day without having one. And what my challenge is, it might not be 2.8 people for you, it might be one person or 10 people. But every day we have an opportunity to have an influence in the lives of others. And it could be positive, it could be negative, or worse. It could just be, you know, nothing. It could be neutral because you haven't had an impact at all. And the choice is ours.
- [37:40]
Tommy Spaulding
So when you talk to strangers, when you talk to that woman at the airport who was crying, writing that letter, yeah, maybe that was nice in the moment and it helped her in that moment and maybe that's enough, I guess. But there is something about this that seems kind of surfacey, like, like, you know, you're doing it to be nice and you're maybe even doing it partly for you to feel like you're doing something, but it probably doesn't have a big impact on other people. And maybe it doesn't have to, but there is that sense that this is kind of a surfacey relationship. You'll never see this person again. It was nice in the moment, but it was just a moment.
- [38:22]
Rebecca Spencer
Not every relationship, I call them the five floors of relationships. And the first floor is transactional and the second floor is more the small talk. You move up to the fifth floor, which is deep, meaningful, lifelong relationship. Not every relationship, not every person that we meet every day is going to go to that fifth floor. The person at the airport that was crying, I just asked if she was okay and just checked in on her. That was just a one time deposit. Never see her again. And that's okay. But there's people in our lives that we'll meet every day and have a huge impact on. I have a friend named Jerry Middle that's 80 years old. This year this man has called me or taken me out to lunch or breakfast every week for the past 20 years, he's invested in my life. Besides my mother and father, no other human being has invested in me and had an interest in helping become a good husband and father and leader more than Jerry Middle. I have a friend named Frank DeAngelis, was the principal of Columbine High School during the tragedy, the school shooting. He's one of my five greatest mentors in my life. And for the past seven, almost eight years, he's texted me every morning to tell me he loves me. Every morning. And it's not some superficial text. He says, good morning, Tommy. I'm not sure where in the world you are. I'm here thinking about you. I love you every morning. I mean, that's an influence when you check in with the people. So some are more. One time, you know, you're at the airport, you see a girl crying, Check in with them and they. And then you're Jerry Middle and you're taking me out to lunch or calling me every week for 20 years. The choice is ours about what kind of relationship we want to have with people.
- [39:57]
Tommy Spaulding
The benefit to doing what you're talking about is what the benefit? Both. I mean, the benefit to the person I get. But what's the benefit to you that makes this worthwhile and worth doing?
- [40:10]
Rebecca Spencer
When I hear that question, Mike, it refers me back to one of my favorite books by Adam Grant, that there's three types of people in the world. There's givers and there's takers and there's posers. And posers are what he calls people that pose as givers, but they're really takers. And for someone that wants to get something out of impacting others, they're takers. I mean, it's just a fact that there's givers and takers in the world. But true givers, true servant leaders, true heart led leaders, people that wake up every morning and put, put others before themselves, they don't ask the question, what do I get out of it? When you influence people and give that gift of influence, it's a gift. And when you give a gift, you don't want anything returned. But gifts are also received. I mean, we receive influence and there's people in our lives. I mean, who I am today is because hundreds of people have invested in me, mentored me, loved me, coached me. And that's a gift. And I think we have to, to reciprocate and do that to the lives of others. That's what a true giver is.
- [41:13]
Tommy Spaulding
And so to do this, I would imagine that you have to be a little more intentional than walking through the airport and hoping to see somebody crying in the coffee shop. So how do you do this as more of an intentional practice rather than a, oh, there's someone crying. I better go put my arm around around it.
- [41:35]
Rebecca Spencer
Yeah, sure. So every morning I, I do what I call an influence audit. I literally think about, okay, who in my life has a birthday today? Or for example, I did a, I did a meeting last year and I worked with this client and I got to know him really well, and he was sharing that his daughter drowned at their, their nearby lake. She was a high, she was a high school kid and drowned and died. And I said, what day was that? I said, May 3rd. Third. Well, most people would say, God, that's terrible. Well, I wrote in my calendar, May 3rd is a reoccurring yearly thing. This happened years ago. So every May 3rd. Do you think that guy's having a hard time, Mike, on May 3rd? It's pretty rough day for him, I would assume. But most people would not do that. They would just say, oh, terrible that happened. But every May 3, I reach out to him, hey, I'm thinking about you today. You know, today's a hard day. It's those little things in our lives. So every day we have to have an offer. It. Who in our lives are going through something? And we know people, employees, customers, clients, family members. We, we know people that are going through things. It's sending them an email. It's reaching out and letting know you care.
- [42:43]
Tommy Spaulding
What do you hear back when you Send a card or a text or a call on May 3rd. What's the reaction?
- [42:51]
Rebecca Spencer
Thank you. I. I have a friend named Scott, and he runs a huge bank in Colorado. And a few years ago, tragically, his son was bullied. High school kid, his name is Teddy. He was bullied so bad, they posted stuff on Internet, and they actually dared him to jump off a bridge. And the kid did. Teddy did. He jumped off the bridge and was killed. And it was just tragic. And this happened years ago. And I called him all the time and told him I was thinking about him. And that's the hardest thing to go through is losing a kid through suicide. And when I met with him years later, he shared. You know, I have tons of friends. I know they cared. I know they felt sorry for me. But it's interesting, not many people really reached out because what do you say during that situation? You know, I just turned 50 a few years ago, and I had a dinner party, and my best friend from high school stood up. Everyone was giving toasts, and Micah. And I'll never forget Corey Tor, my best friend from high school, said, when my wife left me 10 years ago, I was devastated. I have three young boys, and Tommy called me every day for a year to tell me he loved me and tell me that he believes in me. And my best days are ahead of me every day for a year. That's commitment. I mean, that's what we have to do when people are going through tough times. If we do that in the lives of others, that's the true gift of influence.
- [44:12]
Tommy Spaulding
I remember an experience when someone I know had a death in the family, and I sent a card, a condolence card, and later talked to that person, and they said, you know, you're the only one that sent a card. Because I think because people don't know what to do. They don't know what to say. They don't know what to expect back. I think that's why a lot of people don't talk to homeless people, because they're afraid of, you know, is this person gonna go nuts? I talk to them all the time, and most of them are pretty normal, or at least normal enough to have a conversation. But I think people, like, struggle. It's not that they don't want to be caring. They don't know what's appropriate.
- [45:02]
Rebecca Spencer
Right? And when they don't know what's appropriate, here's what we say. Hey, Mike, I'm so sorry that that's going on in your life. If there's anything I can do Let me know. If there's anything I can do, let me know. Know is a cop out. People that say, hey, there's anything I can do, let me know comes from cowards. And we all say it. I say it. It's the most tragic thing we say to people. Because, Mike, what we're really saying is when someone says, man, I'm going through a tough time. Here's what's going on. And you can say, oh, so sorry you lost your mom. If there's anything I can do, let me know. What you're really saying is, listen, I really don't want to do anything, but I want you to think that I want to do something. I want to say the right thing so I know you're not going to ever call me up and say, hey, there is something you can do for me. So I'm just going to say this nice gesture. You're going to say, hi, how are you? I'm fine. And it's just going to be transactional. If there's anything you need, let me know. And they say, okay, no problem. And what you really need to say is, so sorry you lost your mom. You must be going crazy with the kids. You know, back and forth with volleyball and softball practice and band practice. I'm going to come over tomorrow at 5 o' clock and drop off for me. Oh, you don't have to do that. I insist. I'll go to Tony's Meats, pick up a meal. I'm drop it off at 5 o'. Clock. I mean, boom, you just do it. Influencers don't tell people what they're going to do for them. Great influencers just do it. And they make things happen and influence the lives of others, even when they're not asked.
- [46:29]
Tommy Spaulding
Yeah, I love that advice because I've often preached that myself because, like, if you go to somebody's house after somebody's died, oh, I'm so sorry you're. Your father died. Is there anything I can do to help? No one in the history of mankind has ever said, yeah, as a matter of fact, you know, there is, but the person obviously has things. They need to get the kids to baseball practice, or they need to get the kids to school or they need some help with this. And so, like you say, you just do it, or say, can I help by doing this? Or can I help by doing that or something. But I so agree with that. I thought you were gonna say. I thought you were gonna say, saying, is there anything I can do is a great thing to say. And I was gonna go, oh, man, really? But no, I agree. It's 100%. Is there anything I can do? Is like the biggest cop out in the world.
- [47:24]
Rebecca Spencer
Yeah, it's just, Mike, it's all about showing up when we have such an opportunity to show up. And we show up for our kids ball games, and we show up for family dinner. We show up for our immediate family. But when you can show up for other people, I mean, right now my son's at prep school, you know, boarding school. He's, you know, a month into it, kid's 14 years old, he's homesick. And it's amazing. My friends in Minnesota, there's my Realtor that we bought a home there is like, taking him out the subway at night and checking in on him. Like, so many people are pouring into our son Tate, knowing that he's homesick. I mean, it's like the most amazing gesture. It just gives me so much hope that there's thy good in the world. And I think we need to return those great gestures by investing in the lives of others as well.
- [48:09]
Tommy Spaulding
Well, I've enjoyed this conversation because, and I'm guilty of it too, that, you know, we're all busy. We all have a lot on our mind, mostly about our world and the people in it and what we need to do and what we want and all that. That we often don't take time to think how we can influence and impact others. And listening to you because you tell the stories well, gives people who have listened through this episode gives people reason to think about how they can help.
- [48:40]
Rebecca Spencer
So here's where I really want to wrap this up. Is this picture at the end of our lives that we actually got to meet all 2.8 people. That's 80,000 people. What if at the end of our lives, before we die, that we got to meet, meet every single person that we had a human interaction with, whether it's short term or long term. 80,000 people is a lot of people. Where would they fit? They fit in a football stadium. So what if at the end of our lives, every human being before we die, we walk on a 50 yard line of a football stadium, and every single human being that we've had a human interaction with, we've had a positive or negative influence, is in that stadium saying goodbye? And the question is, my, like, what's the sound of that stadium? Are they booing because you've had a negative influence? Or even worse, Mike, is it silent? Is the stadium totally silent? Because you just look down at your phone. Your whole life, you never looked up to see who's in front of you. Great influencers impact lives every day.
- [49:38]
Tommy Spaulding
Or at least every other day.
- [49:42]
Rebecca Spencer
You could take a day off here and there.
- [49:44]
Tommy Spaulding
Great. Well, thanks Tommy. Tommy Spaulding has been my guest and the name of his book is the Gift of creating Life changing and lasting impact in your everyday Interactions. And you'll find a link to that book at Amazon in the show notes.
- [49:59]
Rebecca Spencer
Mike, you're a great interviewer by the way. You're a pro.
- [50:05]
Tommy Spaulding
Anyone who knows anything about negotiating knows to avoid using the phrase okay, you owe me one. That's when you do someone a favor with this vague promise that you'll get repaid sometime in the future. According to negotiation expert Jim Thomas, payback never comes. It's much better to negotiate something specific in return at the time you agree to do the favor. That's when you have the power. Later, you have none. The best way to do this is when someone asks you for something instead of just giving it to them them. Think of the negotiation as a trading request. Be specific in what you want in return, as in I'll give you X if I get Y in return. That seems fair and that is something you should know. While you're at it and you're listening to this podcast, drop a rating and review on the platform you're listening to. It really helps us. I appreciate it. Just leave a rating and review. It'll take you what, five, ten seconds? Seconds. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know. You might think you know fairy tales and you might think that they are cute and sweet and boring. But the real Grimm fairy tales were not cute at all.
- [51:20]
Mike Carruthers
They were very dark and they were often very grim.
- [51:23]
Tommy Spaulding
On Grim Grimmer Grimmest, we tell a grim fairy tale to a bunch of kids.
- [51:29]
Mike Carruthers
Perfect for car rides or screen free entertainment.
- [51:32]
Tommy Spaulding
Grim Grimmer Grimmest activates kids imaginations and instigates fun conversations because fairy tales speak to all of us at a very deep, primal level and they raise interesting topics and questions that are worth chewing over together as a family. Every episode is rated Grim, Grimmer or Grimmest. So you, your kids, your whole family can choose. What is the right level of grim for you? Though, if you're listening with Grandma, she's just gonna go for Grim Grimaced. Trust me on this one. Tune in to Grim, Grimmer Grimmest and our new season.
- [52:04]
Mike Carruthers
Available now from the podcast that brought you to each of the last lesbian bars in the country and back in time through the Sapphic history that shaped them comes a brand new season of Cruising beyond the Bars. This is your host, Sarah Gabrielli, and I've spent the past year interviewing history making lesbian and queer folks about all kinds of queer spaces, from bookstores to farms to line dancing and much more.
- [52:31]
Rebecca Spencer
For 11 years, every night women slept illegally on the Common. We would move down to the West Indies to form a lesbian nation.
- [52:40]
Tommy Spaulding
Meg Kristen coined the phrase women's music, but she would have liked to say.
- [52:44]
Rebecca Spencer
It was lesbian music. And that's kind of the origins of the Combahee River Collective.
- [52:50]
Mike Carruthers
You can listen to Cruising on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes air every other Tuesday, starting February 4th.