← Something You Should Know
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We heard you. Nine years of bring back the snack wrap and you've won. But maybe you should have asked for more. Say hello to the hot honey snack wrap. Now you've really won. Go to McDonald's and get it while you can. Today on SOMETHING you should know. Why do people panic? Buy just before a big storm. Then the things we all do that put our personal safety at risk and how to protect yourself from danger.
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It's as simple as just being more aware. In a society where we're all walking around buried in our cell phones, people don't realize that that alone makes you such an easy target. If you're looking at your phone, you have no idea who and what's around you.
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Also how kissing is good for your physical and mental health and where great ideas come from and don't.
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If you look at the emergence of great ideas throughout history, you know this idea that the way that we find creative inspiration is kind of locking ourselves away and waiting for that light bulb moment that actually turns out to be kind of the exact opposite from what works.
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All this today on Something YOU SHOULD know. Have you been waiting for the perfect time to upgrade your tech? Good news. The wait is over. Dell Tech Day's annual sales event is here and we're celebrating our best customers with fantastic deals on the latest PCs like the Dell 14 plus with Intel Core Ultra processors. We've also got incredible perks like Dell Rewards, fast free shipping, premium support, price match guarantee and more. And while you're upgrading your PC, you may as well go all out because we're also offering huge deals on our premium suite of monitors and accessories. You know what that means? That's right. You can get a whole new setup with amazing savings. Clearly this is a sale you don't want to miss. Visit Dell.com deals that's Dell.com deals. Something you should know.
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Fascinating intel, the world's top experts and.
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Practical advice you can use in your life.
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Today.
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Something you Should Know with Mike Carruthers. So when there's a big storm approaching, it's very common for people to go out and panic. Buy milk and bread and eggs and, I don't know, whatever else, toilet paper. But why? Why do we do that? Well, that's the question we're going to start with today on this episode of Something youg Should Know. Hi, I'm Micah Ruthers. So I've never been a big panic buyer because when there's a storm, maybe you'll be stuck in your house for a day or two at most. And in that day or two, how much milk, bread and eggs can you possibly consume? Well, according to psychology today, the reason people go out and panic by before a storm is partly that sense of just being prepared and having a full stock of food. It just feels good in the face of an uncertain storm to have a sense of security and control. And in many ways it is as simple as that. But there's also the ritual of it. The pre storm grocery run is something we do, we being members of a community. In this sense, it's not unlike putting up a Christmas tree or having a Labor Day cookout. Everybody does it, so we just do it. It's just a ritual. Storm's approaching, go to the store. And that is something you should know. There's a concept called situational awareness. Yeah, it sounds a little tactical, but it's really just about paying attention, knowing where you are, what's going on around you and how you're coming across to people. Things like noticing where the exits are, being careful about what personal details you share with whom, and even how you carry yourself and move through a space. All of this can quietly affect your safety. Now, most people don't think about any of this until something goes wrong. But small choices, like where you stand, what you say, how alert you look, can make a real difference in whether you're seen as an easy target or not. So what should you be paying attention to? And what do most people completely miss? That's what we're gonna talk about with Dana Eve. She's a personal safety expert who shares practical real world safety advice with millions of people on social media. And she's the author of a book called Street Smarts, Trust yout Instincts, Outsmart Danger, and Stay Safe in a World that isn't. Hi, Dana. Welcome to Something youg Should Know.
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Hi, thank you so much for having me.
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So this topic always concerns me a little bit because I don't wanna come across as too alarmist. And everyone has to be afraid of their own sh because there's bad people out there and you could be a victim. But on the other hand, there are bad people out there and you could be a victim. So where's the line? How do we stay vigilant without going overboard?
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B
That's actually a great question and something that I get a lot. And honestly, it's a line that you have to walk because you want to move through the world with a level of awareness, but you don't want to become hyper vigilant. Or some people like to call it paranoid. So. So the way I look at it and what I teach and what I believe in is that knowledge is power. And for me personally, the more aware I am and the more that I know, the more confident I am moving through the world knowing that if, God forbid, I found myself in a dangerous situation, I will be able to handle it. And having that knowledge in the back of my mind, it doesn't mean that you live with it in the forefront in every corner. You're walking around, you're scanning your surroundings and you're paranoid, but you have a level of awareness to you so that you just feel strong as you live your life.
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A
So you're the perfect person to ask this of. Ever since I was little, my mother used to tell me, be careful, be careful. Well, what does that mean? What would I be doing differently if I wasn't careful? And I, I don't know always like what I'm looking for. I wouldn't know. A serial killer. I don't care how vigilant I am. Until he tries to kill me, I don't know that he's a serial killer. And vigilance isn't gonna help.
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B
That's where intuition comes into play. And that's something that I talk about all the time as well. It's because as a society, especially for women, we're taught to minimize that, to question ourselves in the fear of we'll come off as being dramatic or we overreact to. So I think empowering your intuition and leaning into your gut feeling is one of the most important things that you could do. Because oftentimes you're in a situation or you meet someone, and this doesn't even have to be a dangerous situation. This could just be a person that's a little bit of a snake and somebody you don't want in your life. And if you have that initial gut feeling, it's a moment to pause and sit with it and think. I don't necessarily know what was off about that person or situation, but something didn't feel, feel right. And I'm going to lean into that instead of ignore it or try and rationalize that away. And that moving forward is an important thing to keep in mind. So it's empowering your intuition. It's like, you know, it's like a muscle. The more you, you know, the more you use it, the stronger it's going to become. So in situations, just every day, moving through life, leaning into your intuition is the most important thing that you can do because it's going to, you know, alert you long before anything Else will.
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A
Well, that I think is so important, because if you're walking down the street and you see somebody and it just gives you the creeps that there's something about this person, you don't owe anybody an explanation, including yourself. If you feel it, you feel it. And take the appropriate action and get on with your life.
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Absolutely. It's a moment not to wait. Okay, I feel something's off. I don't like the vibe of this. You know, I'm at a party, something changed. I'm on a date, something changed. My. My gut's telling me something, go with it. And if it means leave, you leave. Ask questions later.
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Right. But you wonder how many people go, oh, well, I really shouldn't feel this way. I don't really have any evidence that there's a problem. It's just a feeling I have. But I agree, that's good enough.
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Absolutely. And, you know, I always say, you don't need the evidence. You don't want to stick around and find out if you were right. You want to be out of there before you put yourself in that situation.
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A
Give me a sense of the kinds of things that you're talking about that people need to be aware of. Just. We don't have to go too deep into any of them just yet, but just the kinds of things you want people to start thinking about to be safe.
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B
Honestly, it's as simple as just being more aware. In a society where we're all walking around buried in our cell phones, people don't realize that that alone makes you such an easy target. And that's just walking in a parking lot, walking through a store, walking in an way, if you're looking at your phone, you have no idea who and what's around you. And having a level of awareness and the way that you move, which I talk a lot about, you know, your posture. You want to act like you have people to go, things to do, you know, places to be. There was a study that was fascinating. I remember learning about it in college. And they took a group of inmates and they basically showed them. I don't know if it was like a surveillance video or what type of video. And they picked the same victim based off of how distracted they were or weren't worried or, excuse me, weren't in that moment. And it was just so eye opening because you think like, okay, how can I protect myself in the world? You know, you hear all of the horrible stories on the news, you hear the horrific things, and you're like, okay, I don't want that to happen to me. The best thing that you could do is put your phone down. Is just put your phone down.
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Just because then you're. You don't look distracted.
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And that alone could deter crime, which is such a crazy thing that it's that simple sometimes. But it is.
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But it's not just crime. I mean, you've got to be aware of a lot of things. Like, you know, you could be in a place and there's a fire and how do you get out? And I mean, there's a lot of other things besides that creep that's walking down the street.
- [10:43]
B
Oh, absolutely. You need to be able to see and hear what's around you and who's, you know, who's around you at all times. It's. You see the kids walking around with the, you know, the airpods in both ears, or you're out in a run with the same thing and you can't hear what's going on around you. Who was. Somebody was telling me this the other day. They were out running errands and they had a teenage son that was home alone playing video games with noise canceling headphones. And something had caught fire in the kitchen. And he had absolutely no idea and couldn't hear the alarm, couldn't hear anything that was going on. And he was upstairs in his room and his mom was down the block and she came running home and was like, hello? And he was like, what's going on? He had no idea there was a fire in the kitchen.
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A
So. Talk about lying to survive.
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B
I love this. Okay, so this started when I was a young, young girl. My mom's parents lived about four hours away. So every time we got in the car, we didn't have cell phones or tablets back then. We had to play games. And something that my parents did that made me really aware of my surroundings at a young age was we played games. And one of those games was the lion game, and that tied into the what if game. Both of those were things that we played. So what they did was they. They made me the main character of a story and they put me in situations and then allowed me to think through them on my feet with, you know, in a safe environment. And a lot of the times it would be, you know, let's say you're home alone and somebody rings the doorbell and, you know, it's a man standing there and he's asking for a signature, but you don't want to open the, like, you know, not to open the door. So, like, what do you do? What do you say, and I would have to think my way out of it and lie my way out of it. And it's interesting, too, because a lot of people will say, well, you're like, you're teaching lying. Like, are you kidding me? That's not right. That's not moral. And I'm like, listen, at the end of the day, if you. If you lie yourself out of a situation, I am all for it. Like, I'm not preaching going around and lying to your friends or your family or your coworker for no reason. It's a boundary about someone purely lying for your safety. And it's such an empowering tool to have because you never want to escalate a situation. And it's the perfect tool to de escalate and exit safely.
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A
So give me two examples. You just did one about when the guy comes to the door and wants a signature. But give me a couple of examples of the situation and how you lie to survive.
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B
Let's say you're in an Uber and the guy's super chatty. Seems nice. But again, you do not owe a stranger your truth. At the end of the day, you don't know this person. You don't know what their intentions are. So it could be as simple as, like, he's dropping you off. Is this home? And then on your feet, you're like, nope, this is actually my brother's house. You know, I'm. Believe it or not, there's like 30 people hiding inside. There's a surprise party, so I'm going to go in, but thanks for the ride. Have a good night. It's as simple as that. Because then even if that is your home and you're walking in and no one else is there, now he has the perception that you're not alone, and there's 30 people inside and it's not your home, he doesn't know where to find you. Another situation or another example, you're on a date, and all of a sudden something starts to feel wrong. You can make up a lie and say, I really don't feel good. I'm so sorry. I hate to cut this short, but I'm gonna call my dad. I'm gonna have him come get me. I'm so sorry. And then that's it. That's your lie. Then you get out of it safely, and you don't stick around to find out why you had that feeling. And it's a very, very empowering tool to have.
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A
Well, I would have never, you know, I would have never thought of that. But when a driver drops you off at home and you live alone and he says, is this your home? Who wouldn't say, yeah, this is where I live. And yet look at what you're opening up to if you let your imagination run a little wild.
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B
Absolutely. And it's, you know, oversharing is a huge issue, especially, you know, with women. And I talk about with my friends all the time where you start having a conversation with a stranger and you don't mean to, but all of a sudden you word vomit. And now they know where you live, where you work and where you work out, and then you want to take all that back. So having that boundary and making that decision that, you know, I don't know people until I know people, I'm not going to share my truth. I'm not going to share any information that's going to put me at risk or put my safety at risk. You then start to practice that in all situations of life. And it's something that's very important, especially for women.
- [15:10]
A
We're discussing important ways to protect your personal safety. And my guest is Dana Eve. She's author of the book Street Smarts. Trust your instincts, outsmart danger, and stay safe in a world that isn't. I don't really like buying clothes online just because the odds are so bad. I've sent back more things than I've kept, so I didn't expect much from Quince. And yet I was wrong. Dead wrong. I love quints. Everything fits. I don't think we've sent anything back. I mean, they're cashmere sweaters. I've got two of them. They are ridiculously soft. They hold up and they didn't cost a fortune. I mean, we've bought so much from Quince. Jeans, shoes, shirts, belts. The prices are amazing. And that's because Quince works directly with top factories and, and cuts out the middlemen. So you're not paying for brand markup, you're paying for quality clothes that actually last. So at this point, before I buy anything new, I check Quince first. Not out of loyalty. Well, maybe a little out of loyalty, but mostly just experience. Quince delivers. So refresh your wardrobe with quince. Go to quince.com sysk for free shipping and. And 365 day returns now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com sysk you know what's weird about hair loss? It doesn't happen all at once. You just sort of notice it one day. Huh? I've got three brothers. Every one of them has lost his hair. And so when I noticed mine was thinning a few years ago, I didn't want to wait around to see how that turned out. That's when I found Hims. And what sold me was how simple it was. No appointments, no waiting rooms. Everything happens online. You answer a few questions, a licensed medical provider reviews it, and if treatment makes sense, it just shows up at your door. I use the spray maybe 30 seconds a day. And from everything I've read, starting earlier really matters. For simple online access to personalized and affordable care for hair loss, ED, weight loss, and more, visit hims.com Something that's himss.com Something for your free online, visit himss.com Something Featured products include compounded drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness, or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions, and important safety information. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. So, Dana, you know, not answering the door, for someone who wants a signature, it seems like it's, you know, it's getting close to what we started talking about at the very beginning here of being overly vigilant. I mean, what's the concern? What are you so worried about that you wouldn't answer the door and get your package?
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B
There are so many scams and so many ploys these days where, you know, these predators will fake an emergency or fake urgency. It's as messed up as, you know, people will play the sound of a baby crying or a cat meowing to lure women out of their cars or homes, and then you find yourself in a dangerous situation? So just having that rule. I mean, how many times have you seen in the news recently where there will be a home invasion that ends in, you know, a fatality? Because two men dress as Amazon drivers and knock on a door, and they open the door, and it opens them up to a home invasion. So it just. It's an unfortunate reality of the world that we live in. But you can't just blindly trust people.
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A
My guess is that one of the big dangers when you step out of the house is when you step into your car. That driving is itself quite a dangerous thing to do, perhaps even more so than just walking down the street. So talk about where things can go wrong there.
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B
Absolutely. Something that's so simple that you could implement right now is just lock your doors so many times. Women, men, I'll see it. Young teenagers will get into a car and sit scrolling on social media or texting. And I'm like, I bet that door is open. And I had a woman write me probably a month ago. And she shared this very eye opening and what would have been a very scary story, luckily she was safe, but she was in a parking garage and she felt something was off. She had said that she saw a video of mine months before about locking your door and just making it second nature, whether it's your home, your car, your dorm, your hotel, that you get in that door and you lock it immediately. And she did. She got in her car, she locked it, and within two seconds there was a man at her passenger door, rattling it, trying to open the door. And she's like, and if I wouldn't have hit that lock button, if I would have got in and was distracted, I have no idea what, what would have happened. And that was very, very eye opening. So by simply locking your door, you provide a barrier from you and the outside world once you get in your vehicle. And that's, that's one of the most simple driving tips that I could give.
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A
Let's talk about travel. And I think people have heard, try not to look like a tourist, try not to stand out and look like a victim. But what else about travel that's maybe a little less obvious, things that people might miss?
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B
I mean, it goes back to the whole fake it till you make it. You never want to look like you don't know what you're doing. And also something that's so important, I want to say this first before I forget the case where it was like a stray bullet and they were detained overseas. One of the most simple things that you could do before you go on a trip and it takes again less than a minute. Check all of your luggage, check all your purse, your carry on, your checked bag, and make sure that you do your research where you're going. Because things that are legal in the States might not be legal elsewhere, like a stray bullet. Let's say your husband's a hunter and, you know, you have no idea that there's a stray bullet in the bottom of the duffel bag that you're bringing on a girls trip. You're, you know, some wedding, God knows where. And that is something. It just, it can save you from a very large headache, let's just say the least. And then while you're traveling again, just having that level of awareness, another tip, something that I see all the time. So many people display their valuables and their personal information just out in the open. So I, you know, Standing in line for security. A thing that you could implement right now is hold your boarding pass and your ID face down. I've been standing in line so many times where the person in front of me and the person behind me, I could look and I could see their full name and their home address just because they're holding their driver's license. And again, it boils down to the whole thing where odds are that person is a great individual. You're not, you know, you're not at risk for anything happening, but you don't want that information out in the open. And just by simply holding it face down, it just protects your identity, protects your home address. And it's simple things like that. You know, I had this happen to a friend. This is just an interesting one that some people might never think of. But I had a girlfriend use a restroom at an airport. And she used the hook just to put her purse on, on the back of the door. And it was close to the top. And while she was using the restroom, a hand came over and grabbed her bag and ran. And in that bag was her wallet with her ID and her passport and everything that you need when you're traveling. And she never got that back. So something else that I always say is, don't use that hook if it's close to the top. Keep your purse, keep your bag, keep it on you. Or sometimes there's like a little toilet paper holder next to you, put it there instead. It's something that's so simple and a lot of people don't think of, wow.
- [22:52]
A
That'S amazing that somebody would have reached over the top of the stall and grabbed her. How would they even know it was on the hook?
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B
That's a great question. They must have been watching. And that's. Sometimes crime is simply opportunistic. And that's where taking those tiny little precautions, those steps to keep yourself and your belongings safe, you don't know what it will save you from at the end of the day.
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A
You know, what's a situation where things could go bad really fast and happen to almost anybody who's driving is road rage. You make a mistake, somebody gets upset, and things escalate really fast.
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B
Road rage is a great example, honestly. I mean, you hear about it all the time, the road rage shooting. And this is just something that you can implement into your life right now. Having a mindset on the road that you don't know what somebody's capable of. You don't know what's going on in somebody's life. You don't know what types of weapons are in that vehicle. And knowing just that, you say to yourself, no matter what happens on the road today, I'm gonna let it go. And you say that, it's like almost like a mantra, like every time you get in the car, let it go. Just mindfully let it go. No matter what happens on the road, I'm not gonna react. And you have no idea what that could save you from. And that's just something that again is back to the whole awareness of there are horrible things that happen to horrible or to people, excuse me, to innocent people all the time. And you want to move through the world, not like an ostrich. You don't want to put your head in the sand and think, it's not going to happen to me. I think the most dangerous mentality that you can have is this won't happen to me ever. It's probably not going to happen to me. I'm going to live my life, I'm going to have fun, I'm going to do what I want to do, but I'm also going to have a street smart head on my shoulders while I do it.
- [24:37]
A
So one more piece of really practical strategic advice for people. Because you clearly know so much about this, what's one thing you want to leave people with?
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B
This was taught to me by a former Secret Service agent. He called it the 10 second rule. And it's something that I teach and it's the easiest safety trick to implement into your life. And this is whether you're in an unfamiliar or familiar area where let's say you walk into a coffee shop, you take 10 seconds when you get there and you just scan your surroundings. Okay, I'm clocking there's an exit in the front, there's an exit back there, and there's an exit on the side. Wherever you know, whatever it is, wherever you are, are. And just take note, everything seem fine. Does you know, is anyone giving me a creepy vibe? And then you move on with your life because then let's say there is a fire, something crazy happens, you know where the exits are and you don't have to scramble in an emergency to try to figure out the best way out. You can get your family out of there safely.
- [25:32]
A
Well, I admire your vigilance and your willingness to share this because what I think happens for so many people, myself included, is because things rarely if ever happen, it's so easy to let your guard down. And I think it's important to hear the things that you're saying so people will ratchet up their vigilance level because it doesn't happen till it happens and when it happens, you need to know what to do. My guest has been Dana Eve. She's a personal safety expert and she's author of a book called Street Smarts, Trust yout Instincts, Outsmart Danger and Stay Safe in a World that Isn't. There's a link to that book and I'm also gonna put a link to her Instagram account where she has lots of really great videos and she's got, I think like two and a half million followers or something. It's really good stuff and there'll be a link to that as well. Thank you, Dana.
- [26:28]
B
Well, thank you so much. No, this is a really fun conversation. I'm so passionate about what I do. This is obviously very new to me in the podcast world, but it's really fun to be able to talk about it and this was just a great conversation. So thank you so much.
- [26:42]
A
Right before you start anything new, like a business, an online store, a podcast, you know how your brain does that thing. What if nobody buys anything? What if this was a terrible idea? I remember that feeling when I started this show. You don't know how it's going to turn out. You just know you're about to find out. And that's where something like Shopify helps. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions, millions of businesses worldwide. 10% of all US E commerce. From really big brands to people just getting started. They help you build a great looking online store with ready to use templates that are packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions and page headlines and help you find new customers. If you get stuck, Shopify's award winning 247 customer support is always there. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.comsysk go to shopify.comsysk that's shopify.comsysk.
- [27:59]
B
Of the Regency era. You might know it as the time when Bridgerton takes place or as the time when Jane Austen wrote her books. The Regency era was also an explosive time of social change, sex scandals and maybe the worst king in British history. Vulgar History's new season is all about the Regency era. The balls, the gowns and all the scandal. Listen to Vulgar History Regency Era. Wherever you get podcasts.
- [28:32]
A
When you think about innovation, you probably imagine some lone genius having a sudden eureka moment. But that's almost never how great ideas actually happen. Breakthroughs rarely come from locking yourself in a room and just trying harder. And they're almost never completely new ideas. Most great ideas are built from existing ones, mixed, tweaked, borrowed, and sometimes stumbled into by accident. Luck plays a bigger role in innovation than most people want to admit. And timing matters. And progress usually happens in small, hidden steps that only look obvious in hindsight. So how does the process really work? And why do we keep getting the story of innovation wrong? That's what we're digging into with George Newman. He's an associate professor at the Rotman School of Management, a leading expert on creativity, and his research has been featured in the New York Times, Forbes, the Wall Street Journal, and the Washington Post. He's also the author of a book called How Great Ideas the Hidden Steps Behind Breakthrough Success. Hey, George. Welcome to Something youg Should Know.
- [29:45]
C
Hi, Mike. Thanks so much for having me.
- [29:47]
A
Well, this is something I think everyone is interested in, because who hasn't come up with a great idea? We've all come up with an idea and go, hey, yeah, great idea, that's great. But where did it come from? And my sense is, and my experience is that sitting down and trying to come up with a great idea, to just sit down and hammer it out, that almost never works. It seems to come from. I don't know where it comes from. And you're going to tell me where it comes from. But. But the idea of trying to come up with an idea seldom works.
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C
Certainly that's how it feels, right, that we kind of have these light bulb moments, a lightning bolt strikes us out of nowhere. But, you know, I'm a cognitive scientist. I spent my career trying to understand creativity and where it comes from. And these kind of mysteries about how do great ideas happen and what the research shows and looking at a lot of anecdotes from history as well, is that even though it can kind of feel in the moment like this lightning bolt or epiphany, that there actually is a lot of work going on behind the scenes preceding those moments, that it's a lot of trial and error and experimentation and false starts and all of that sort of thing that eventually leads us to a great idea. So there's lots and lots of explorations, exploration that is happening behind the scenes. And I talk about kind of the power of thinking about ourselves more like creative explorers rather than creative geniuses.
- [31:24]
A
Well, it's, I guess, because the stories tend to not sound like that. The stories of great ideas, of great success are often the stories of magic. And they're not False starts and mistakes and errors and restarts. It's all much more glamorous than that. And so when you have those difficult times, you think, well, how come I can't be like those other guys totally?
- [31:49]
C
And, you know, I mean, history has a funny way of kind of smoothing over all of those details. You know, oftentimes there are many collaborators that we don't see behind the scenes, many people working on the project. Oftentimes people are borrowing from ideas and building upon the ideas that have come before them. You know, this idea that the way that we find creative inspiration is kind of locking ourselves away and waiting for that light bulb moment that actually turns out to be kind of the exact opposite from what works.
- [32:23]
A
But when you look at great ideas, how much of it is the idea and how much of it is the person doing it?
- [32:34]
C
That's such a fascinating question. And qualitatively, I think what the research shows us is that it leans much more heavily on the environment that people find themselves in. The ideas that are kind of swirling around at their time, who they're talking to, what they're drawing upon, the effort they put in, how much exploration they do. All of those kinds of things that are much closer to the process and the environment seem to matter much more than who the person is. And one, one very nice data point which supports this is that throughout history you have this very fascinating phenomenon of what's called multiple discovery, where multiple people arrive at exactly the same idea. And these are big ideas, like the idea for the telescope or the thermometer, or even the theory of evolution, where multiple people arrived at this idea at the exact same time, suggesting that. But in some ways, the world was kind of ripe for that idea and it was a process of navigating towards it rather than one special person unlocking it within themselves.
- [33:44]
A
When you look at great ideas, I'm wondering how often do great ideas come because people are looking for solutions to a problem versus great ideas just kind of generating out of nowhere like. Like the story of Velcro, I think, is kind of the great example of that. What's the beginning seed of it all?
- [34:09]
C
Great ideas come about in lots of different ways. One thing that's really interesting is that there's some research out of Stanford which shows that sitting down and trying to do something quote, unquote creative actually can lead people to come up with fewer ideas and less good ideas overall. And there's something about the process of when we think, okay, I'm going to do something really creative or mind blowing or Great that actually we can kind of psych ourselves out and begin to kind of edit or censor our ideas as we're generating them. In some of my own work too, I found that when people think about doing something creative, maybe their minds race to something totally original that's never been done before, when in fact it might be much better to build on what's been done in the past and focus on, well, who's this idea really for? How is it valuable? So it's a mix. I mean, sometimes those ideas will happen by happenstance, by chance. But then there's also a lot of hard work that goes into it. You mentioned the story of Post IT Notes and Spencer Silver, which I think is a great one. And you know, when he discovered the. The adhesive that wound up being Post IT Notes, that was actually, he was like pitching that idea internally of different ways he could use his adhesive for almost eight years. And he tried a lot of different machinations of the same idea of kind of an adhesive bulletin board. And then they had these press and peel bookmarks. And then finally, with a colleague, Art Fry, they wound up on the, you know, for the idea of Post IT Notes. But if you think about the different iterations of Post IT Notes and the different kind of machinations that that idea took, they're really actually very similar to one another. It's basically just adhesive plus paper. And so it was finding that great idea was about finding like the right tweak, the right kind of spin or pivot that kind of unlocked something new that was going to be valuable. And that often takes a lot of. And trial and error.
- [36:17]
A
And that, again, is usually not part of the story. It somehow gets woven into this tale of this aha moment and how exciting. And it doesn't include all those bumps along the way.
- [36:30]
C
Absolutely. I mean, we kind of gloss over those details. Especially, you know, looking back when things occurred decades ago, I kind of think about an analogy even to our own lives. Maybe if you're telling just the history of, of your life and the different steps you took along the way as we're communicating it to somebody else. In hindsight, maybe it seems like this straight linear path when really for many of us, there's lots of backtracking and things that we didn't expect and new kinds of windows and opportunities that open up. And much the same with ideas that there's a lot of trial and error and false starts along the way that in hindsight tend to get glossed over when we tell the story later.
- [37:16]
A
So you said that the idea of sitting down and trying to come up with ideas is somewhat counterproductive for many people. So what does work? If that doesn't work, do you just wait until, I don't know, something happens?
- [37:33]
C
Well, I think, you know, and I think there's an important point to clarify. Sitting down and trying to generate ideas is probably one of the best things that you can do. But the idea there is to not put too much pressure on yourself and not say, well, this has to be a great idea. In fact, there's some interesting research that shows that sometimes we're our most creative. We make the most unusual connections. When we're low on sleep or, you know, maybe cognitively, it doesn't feel like we're at our peak, we can actually kind of make new connections that we wouldn't otherwise. So one big thing that I advocate is thinking about creativity as a process like archeology. And part of what an archaeologist is doing, after they have surveyed the landscape and kind of understand where they are, and then they've gridded their terrain to make it their search more systematic so they know where they're finding things and where they haven't, the next stage is just try to get as much stuff out of the ground as possible. And really, I think that is one of the strongest things that you can do. More is more just try to generate as many ideas as possible and then wait to go back later to say, well, what did I find here? What was actually valuable?
- [38:49]
A
I always find, though, that when you generate a lot of ideas, you've got so many things that now you'd like. You know, you're too close to it, and you can't really see the forest for the trees, and now you can't really evaluate them.
- [39:04]
C
That's such a fantastic point. You know, we actually ran a study about this same idea. What we did is we had people generate ideas. Sometimes it was for fundraisers, sometimes it was just like, for humorous captions to New Yorker cartoons. And so people came up with a bunch of ideas. And then we said, okay, we want you to go through, and we want you to submit only your very best ideas. Submit only the top ideas, and you could win a monetary bonus if those ideas were, in fact, rated by others as very strong, and you might lose money. There was a monetary penalty if you submitted subpar ideas. So what we found is that people, when they went through their list, while they pruned some of them, they submitted many good ideas, but they also submitted many subpar ideas. When we took Those same lists of ideas, and we handed them off to somebody else. So now they're reviewing somebody else's ideas. And it's the same task, choose only the gems. Other people are much more accurate. And so one big takeaway for me there is that bringing people into the editing process or sifting process or however you want to think about it can actually be a really valuable way of finding. Okay, what's really strong here Because. Because, Mike, exactly. Like you said, we oftentimes have some difficulty accurately evaluating how strong our own ideas are simply because we're the person who came up with them.
- [40:29]
A
Yeah, that rings true. Because doesn't it seem like you're able to look at somebody else's ideas or what somebody else wrote or somebody else made or whatever, and evaluate it. It in a much more objective way, as you say, because it's not yours. So you have a distance on it that gives you that ability that you cannot do with your own stuff.
- [40:55]
C
Absolutely. There's a famous finding in behavioral economics called the endowment effect. And in short, basically, the stuff we own, we think is more valuable. And a coffee mug, if you just gave it to me, I would demand more money to sell it than I'd be willing to pay for it. And so that's the endowment effect. And we call our effect the creative endowment effect. That there's something about the process of generating ideas, the act of coming up with them, that we feel an attachment to those on idea, to our own ideas, and that makes us have a bit of difficulty evaluating their quality. Interestingly, we actually followed up with some of the participants in our studies six months later, and we gave them the same list of the same list that they had generated earlier. And we found that actually, after a long delay, people were much more accurate. Their selections looked like if other people were evaluating their list. So not only are we attached to our own ideas, but there seems to be something about in the moment, generating those ideas that make them especially attractive to us. Giving a little bit of space or psychological distance from that. That act of generating ideas can actually be a really healthy way of. Of getting more accurate about which ones are the best.
- [42:14]
A
One of the things I've always heard about creating ideas, good ideas, is to take two things that, you know are seemingly incongruent and putting them together somehow into something new. And that's a great way to create something new. Is that. Is that a theory, or does that really work?
- [42:37]
C
Absolutely, that works. I call this process transplanting. That we're kind of borrowing the rules, the logic, the Inspiration from a different domain or area of study or field and importing it to our own expertise. And there's lots of fun examples. I talk about the Japanese high speed train, and they had this problem where the train actually moved so fast that when it was exiting tunnels, it created a sonic boom, which was a real problem for people living near the train tracks. And so actually, one of the engineers working on the train was an avid bird watcher, and he was familiar with the kingfisher bird, which can dive into the water basically seamlessly, so it doesn't alert fish. And so they just copied the beak of the kingfisher bird for the front of the Japanese high speed train. And this actually wound up being a really effective way of solving that problem, borrowing that idea from, from nature. So in engineering, in, in science, in products, even in art, there's all kinds of great examples of people going to other domains and importing that to whatever problem they're trying to work on.
- [43:56]
A
That seems so random somehow, like because this guy was a bird watcher and had this idea, I mean, and if he wasn't a bird watcher, would it have ever happened? Who knows?
- [44:10]
C
Yeah, I mean, this kind of question about inevitability, and we talked before about this phenomena of multiple discovery, and in some sense, you know, evolution found a solution to that problem for the kingfisher bird. And so we could kind of ask this question, well, if not, if not for this engineer being an avid bird watcher, would the nose have looked the same? Would they have solved the same? Maybe not. Would somebody else been able to solve the problem borrowing a similar kind of idea?
- [44:41]
A
When people think of coming up with ideas, they think about creating something. But I know you talk about subtracting something, and some examples of that might help but explain what you mean.
- [44:53]
C
There's some really fascinating research out of the University of Virginia showing that if you, if you give people some ideas, it could be a sample of writing, it could be a product design, and you ask them to make it better. Our natural impulse is to always add stuff. We always want to add another sentence or another few sentences to clarify the point, when really maybe what. What the essay needs is actually to start removing stuff. And there's something just about subtraction that doesn't naturally occur to us. Subtraction can be actually a super powerful way of also finding what are the best aspects of your idea and refining it. I talk about Paul Simon and his process for writing the album Graceland, which was to go to. He went to South Africa, he became enamored with the street music coming out of South Africa. He went to South Africa and he just started jamming with musicians there and recorded hours and hours and hours of material. And then he came back to the US and started trying to kind of piece those different parts and sections together and find the songs within all of that recorded material, essentially looking for what he could take away rather than what he could add. And what I argue is that, you know, this was a really ingenious way of. Of. Of creating and finding something, because instead of looking to just add things or conform to a script, he was looking, well, what. What can I take away here to find? To find something that's truly great.
- [46:31]
A
When you look at great ideas, or maybe you look at the people who come up with great ideas, are you able to identify things they have in common? Or it's just so varied that you can't really do that.
- [46:46]
C
If you look at the emergence of great ideas throughout history, almost without exception, the folks who are discovering those ideas have some expertise in their field. It doesn't need to be kind of formal training, but they've been working on this type of creative problem for a while. And I liken this to going back to the archeology analogy of. Of first surveying the landscape that, you know, imagine you were an archaeologist. You have to have some sense of where you're going to dig, where, you know, you're likely to find, if you're a paleontologist, bones, or if you're, you know, an archeologist, where you're going to find historical ruins. You have to be orienting yourself in space. If you just start going and digging in your backyard, you're probably not gonna find anything of note. And so there's, I think, a really nice comparison there to. To creativity, which is you have to know where to dig and that knowing where to dig comes from some degree of expertise. So even though there is an element of chance or trial by error, one of the big things that you can do to set yourself up is first trying to learn about where have successful ideas been found in the past? Where have other people made discoveries or come up with ideas that are similar to the ones that I want to pursue and let me try to orient myself towards in that kind of general direction. And so I know what I'm looking for. That can be one of the first really important step to defining a great idea.
- [48:23]
A
It's fun to talk about this because we all have ideas. And you know what I love? I love when someone else comes up with something like you see some new product online or something and you go, wow, what a great idea. Wish I'd thought of that. Or I wonder how they came up with that. And it's interesting to hear what the process typically is for people to come up with great ideas. George Newman's been my guest. He's an associate professor at the Rotman School of Management, and he's author of a book called How Great Ideas the Hidden Steps Behind Breakthrough Success. And there's a link to his book at Amazon in the show notes. George, it's been a pleasure. Thanks. Cool.
- [49:04]
C
Mike, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it.
- [49:10]
A
Does kissing actually burn calories? Yeah, a little. Probably not as many as you've heard. According to health experts, a simple kiss burns about 2 to 3 calories per minute, while more passionate kissing can burn up to 5 to 26 calories a minute, depending on how hot and heavy things get. But kissing isn't just about calories. Research shows it can lower stress, improve mood, strengthen emotional bonds, and trigger the release of of feel good hormones like oxytocin and dopamine. Exchanging saliva also exposes you to your partner's harmless microbes, which may help keep your immune system alert. So while kissing probably won't replace your workout, it can genuinely be good for your physical and emotional health, which is a pretty good bonus. And that is something you should know. You know A rating and review from you about this Podcast Podcast really helps us a lot. More than I think, more than I even understand. But ratings and reviews really do help us stay visible so other people can find us. So if you have a moment, please leave a rating and review on whatever podcast platform you listen on. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to Something you should know. I know you like interesting and thought provoking conversations and ideas because you listen to something you should know. So let me recommend another podcast I know you will enjoy. It's the Jordan Harbinger Show. Jordan has a real talent for getting his guests to share stories and offer thought provoking insights. Over the years I've sent a lot of people to listen and I get feedback from people who are so glad I introduced them to the Jordan Harbinger show. Recently. He discussed Scientology and the children who are raised in that organization. It's a fascinating conversation and he talked with Dr. Rhonda Patrick about how to protect your mind and body from the modern world. And it's tougher than you think. I've gotten to know Jordan pretty well. We talk frequently and I tell you he is a very smart, insightful guy who does a hell of a podcast. Check out the Jordan Harbinger show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [51:30]
B
If Bravo drama, pop culture, chaos, and honest takes are your love language, you'll want All About TRH Podcast in your feed. Hosted by Roxanne and Chantel, this show breaks down real housewives, reality TV, and the moments everyone's group chat is arguing about. Roxanne's been spilling Bravo tea since 2010, and yes, we've interviewed Housewives royalty like Countess Luann and Teresa Giudice. Smart recaps, insider energy, and zero fluff. Listen to All About Tragedy podcasts on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
- [51:58]
A
New episodes weekly.