Stunningly Simple Secrets for Success & What Really Goes On at the CIA

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Stunningly Simple Secrets for Success & What Really Goes On at the CIA"

Something You Should Know
Host: Mike Carruthers | OmniCast Media
Release Date: November 18, 2024

In this enlightening episode of Something You Should Know, host Mike Carruthers delves into two captivating topics: the data-driven habits that propel individuals to success and the real operations of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). The episode features insightful interviews with William van der Blumen, CEO of Van der Blumen Search Group, and David McCloskey, a former CIA analyst. Below is a detailed summary of the key discussions, insights, and conclusions drawn from their conversations.

---

1. Stunningly Simple Secrets for Success

Guest: William van der Blumen
Timestamp: [00:32] – [26:48]

William van der Blumen shares his expertise on the twelve data-driven habits that distinguish top performers from the rest. Drawing from extensive research conducted by his executive search firm, William emphasizes that these habits are not innate traits but skills that can be cultivated to achieve success in various facets of life.

Key Insights:

• Curiosity as a Core Habit:
  William introduces the first habit, "The Curious," highlighting that top performers show a genuine interest in others rather than themselves.

  "If you want to be interesting to people, then start being interested in those people."
  — William van der Blumen [00:46]

• Authenticity and Eye Contact:
  Authenticity is paramount. William provides a practical tip on enhancing authenticity by maintaining eye contact, especially focusing on the right eye, which is dominant in 90% of humans.

  "Have you ever sat in a room with somebody and talked to them and you go, they made me feel like I was the only person in the room? Chances are they were looking you dead in the eye."
  — William van der Blumen [18:57]

• Self-Awareness:
  Surprisingly, self-awareness ranks lowest among the twelve habits among top performers, indicating it’s an area needing improvement even for the best.

  "Most people think they're pretty good at all this, but unicorns, the top 1%, really work hard on understanding how others perceive them."
  — William van der Blumen [12:16]

• Productivity through Small Goals:
  William advocates for setting six achievable objectives each day to build momentum and consistently achieve goals without feeling overwhelmed.

  "If you consistently set and achieve small goals, like six objectives a day, you'll create a flywheel of momentum that sets you apart."
  — William van der Blumen [21:51]

Conclusion:
William underscores that success stems from actionable habits centered around genuine human interactions, self-improvement, and disciplined productivity. By adopting these twelve habits, individuals can significantly enhance their personal and professional lives.

---

2. What Really Goes On at the CIA

Guest: David McCloskey
Timestamp: [30:00] – [50:43]

David McCloskey, a former CIA analyst, provides an insider's perspective on the true functions of the CIA, dispelling common misconceptions perpetuated by popular media. His discussion offers a clear understanding of the agency's mission, operations, and its role within the broader intelligence community.

Key Insights:

• Core Mission of the CIA:
  David clarifies that the CIA's primary role is information gathering and analysis to provide an information advantage to U.S. policymakers.

  "The CIA exists to provide us and our elected officials with an information advantage. We have more information or better information about what's going on in the world than other countries do."
  — David McCloskey [31:22]

• Distinguishing CIA Operations from Fiction:
  He emphasizes that the CIA's day-to-day work is far from the glamorous spy activities depicted in movies. Instead, it involves collecting and analyzing data to inform national security decisions.

  "The day-to-day work of the CIA is breaking foreign laws... it's about stealing secrets, not car chases and guns like on TV."
  — David McCloskey [01:13]

• Structure and Collaboration within the Intelligence Community:
  David explains the CIA's relationship with other intelligence agencies like the NSA and international counterparts, highlighting both collaboration and challenges due to overlapping missions.

  "All of these groups in theory work together and in most cases actually do relatively well, but there can be competition over turf and dropped handoffs."
  — David McCloskey [35:39]

• Authenticity and Secrecy:
  He addresses why CIA operations and personnel are kept confidential, linking it to the nature of their work which often involves sensitive operations that require anonymity to protect sources and methods.

  "The details around operations, whether sources or methods, remain classified, hence the anonymity of many CIA members."
  — David McCloskey [48:24]

• Evolution of the CIA Over Time:
  David notes the transformation of the CIA from its more interventionist past to its current focus on intelligence and analysis under presidential oversight.

  "The CIA of today is not the same as the CIA of the 50s and 60s... It operates with the full support and formal authority of the president."
  — David McCloskey [45:59]

Conclusion:
David McCloskey provides a nuanced understanding of the CIA, emphasizing its pivotal role in national security through intelligence and analysis rather than the sensationalized actions often portrayed in entertainment. His insights shed light on the complexities and responsibilities inherent in intelligence work.

---

Final Thoughts:
This episode of Something You Should Know offers listeners valuable lessons on achieving personal success through data-driven habits and demystifies the true operations of one of the world's most enigmatic agencies, the CIA. Whether you're looking to advance your career or simply curious about intelligence work, Mike Carruthers ensures that each conversation is both informative and engaging.

Transcript

[Mike Carruthers]

Bingo Blitz rules. If your bingo has ads in it.

[William van der Blumen]

That'S not a bingo.

[Mike Carruthers]

If it doesn't have the coolest tournaments, minigames and the most breathtaking design, Nope, not a bingo. If your bingo moment makes you feel so excited that you just want to burst in joy and scream out loud, Bingo.

[David McCloskey]

Sorry.

[Mike Carruthers]

So you're playing Bingo Blitz.

[David McCloskey]

Now that's a bingo step for a world of excitement. With Bingo Blitz, the number one free bingo game. Download Bingo Blitz and play for free.

[Mike Carruthers]

Now that's a bingo.

[David McCloskey]

Today on something you should know. Having friends is getting so expensive that for many of us it's affecting the friendships then proven habits that will propel your success. Here's just one.

[William van der Blumen]

The habit is called the curious. The top performers are always more interested in others than they are in themselves. Here's the quick life hack. If you want to be interesting to people, then start being interested in those people.

[David McCloskey]

Also, can chewing gum really improve your test scores? Depends on how you chew and what really goes on at the CIA. From a true insider, the day to.

[Mike Carruthers]

Day work of the CIA is breaking foreign laws. It very rarely involves shooting and car crashes and all the stuff you see on tv. But at its most basic level, it's an organization committed to convincing other people to commit treason.

[David McCloskey]

All this today on something you should know. There are just some things you come across that you have to tell people about. And because I like you have a cell phone and I know it can get expensive, I'm telling people about Mint Mobile. They offer Premium Wireless for $15 a month when you purchase a three month plan. Now I have Mint Mobile and before that I was paying a lot more than that for my wireless plan and I'm wondering why would anyone do that? You see, all Mint Mobile plans come with high speed data, unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with your existing contacts too. So ditch overpriced wireless with Mint Mobile's deal and get three months of premium wireless service for 15 bucks a month to get this new customer offer and your new three month premium wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month. Go to mintmobile.com something that's mintmobile.com something. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com something $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 a month new customers on first three month plan only speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees and restrictions apply. See Mint Mobile for details Something you should know Fascinating intel, the world's top.

[William van der Blumen]

Experts and practical advice you can use.

[David McCloskey]

In your life today.

[Alexis Ohanian]

Something you should know with Mike Carruthers.

[David McCloskey]

Hi, welcome. Something I've noticed. Perhaps you've noticed this too, but I don't hear people talking about it much. Is about the high cost of going out, going out with friends for drinks or to eat or going to a sporting event. It can all get very pricey. And I came across this survey article on a website called bad credit.org that talks about how people are coming to terms with the fact that having and maintaining friendships is really expensive. So expensive that it affects the friendships. According to the survey, Americans spend an average of $5184 per year on time with friends. More than half of the survey respondents, 52% say they consider friendship to be expensive. Not only that, but inflation is affecting social lives as well. 37% of respondents said they are neglecting their friends friends due to the high cost of living and that percentage jumps to 44% for Gen Z. Friendship can also take a back burner to other major expenses such as buying a house or alleviating debt. 65% that's 2 out of 3 people surveyed confess to reducing social activities to focus on saving money and cutting spending. I guess the point of all this is if you've had similar thoughts, that going out with your friends is taking a financial toll and maybe it's affecting your friendships. There are a lot of other people who agree with you and that is something you should know. You don't have to look very hard to find advice on how to be successful. Many people have become very successful selling advice on how to be successful. Today though, I'd like you to listen to some really good advice that is backed up by data. Real solid data rather than opinion or just someone's personal story. William van der Blumen is founder and CEO of Van der Blumen Search Group, an executive search firm, and he has conducted some great research into the traits of the people who become successful. They're not traits you're born with, but rather traits you can acquire and put into action today. William is author of a book called be the 12 data driven habits that Separate the Best Leaders from the rest. Hi William, welcome to something you should know.

[William van der Blumen]

Thanks Mike. I really appreciate you having me on.

[David McCloskey]

So everyone, it seems, has advice for what it takes to thrive and be successful. But as someone who has studied this, if you can boil it down, what does it boil down to? What is the essence of all of.

[William van der Blumen]

This Mike, what a good question. You said everybody's got advice and opinion. I don't know that you want to hear my advice or opinion. However, I do have data. And we have studied. We're. We're an executive search firm, so we help people. We help companies find their top talent. And we interviewed the very best. We've interviewed lots and lots and lots of people, but we found the very best, the top 1% of everybody we've interviewed. And that's for all kinds of jobs, and that's 30,000 people in that 1%. And we just asked the question, do these people have anything in common? And the answer was yes. And so we did, like, empirical research to say, well, then, what do they have in common? And the answer was exactly not what I thought it would be, but it does. It did give us a roadmap for saying, oh, here's how people can get ahead, how they can stand out in a really crowded world, how they can be that exception to the rule in whatever they do, whether they're a student or a custodian or a leader or where. Whatever they're spending their day doing.

[David McCloskey]

And what is that? And what is that?

[William van der Blumen]

Yeah, so, yeah, we. We found. So I thought, Mike, that, you know, what are the best of the best have in common? I figured it would be they're all over six feet tall and have fabulous hair and teeth and, you know, super high IQs and went to all the right schools. It was none of that. It was 12 habits that they had in common. And all of those habits are really fundamentally how these people are treating other humans. I mean, this was a selfish research project, Mike. We. We started this saying, could we find a way to identify top talent faster so we get our job done faster and better? And what we stumbled upon was these 12 habits can all be learned. And. And we were looking for a way to identify talent. What we discovered was a roadmap for becoming that talent or becoming that stand, get ahead person. Anybody who wants to get ahead. If you study these 12 habits and apply them to your life, you will get ahead.

[David McCloskey]

So let's start with one that you call the fast. And that is basically getting back to people quickly is really important. And it's something I don't think people think that much about. You know, you get back to people when you can get back to people, but you say, there's a real opportunity here.

[William van der Blumen]

And what I mean by that is, you know, you get. You send a message to somebody, and you never hear back from them. This happens in people fill out forms. I'd like to buy your product. Please have someone contact me. Well, it's staggering how uncommon it is for companies to actually get back to somebody that fills out that form. And when they do, they usually wait a day or two. But studies have shown that if you get back to people within 60 seconds of that form coming in and you do it not in a way a chat bot would or an AI, you know, program, if you do it in a really intentional human way really quickly, you're almost certain to talk to that person again and maybe make whatever sale it is you're trying to make. So unicorns get back to people really quickly and with intention, not like a chatbot. The rest of us just don't. And if you want to get ahead and stand out in the crowd in a way that is really remarkable, just get back to people quickly and with intention. Like mention something about their world or what they're doing, not just, how can I help you today?

[David McCloskey]

Yeah, I mean, that's perfect. Because think about it. When somebody does get back to you fast, like, you notice that, well, that's impressive. It got right back to me. And yet I've never heard that advice before. So talk about the problem. I think a lot of us have, or maybe we think we have, is, you know, standing out from the crowd, getting noticed without being. Without being a jerk about it.

[William van der Blumen]

You know, I think people are always like, I go to a party and I'm like, I don't know if anyone's going to remember me. I'm not very memorable or interesting. Like, how do I stand out in a way that whether it's a relationship with a family member or a co worker or trying to get the next job, how do I stand out in a room that's really crowded? Well, here's. Here's one thing, and I'll say it this simply. The habit is called the curious, okay? The. The top performers are always more interested in others than they are in themselves. They're curious, they're asking questions. So here's. Here's the quick life hack, okay? If you want to be interesting to people, then start being interested in those people. So. So I used to work at a church where the people that went there were. Almost all of them were literally the best in the world at what they did during the week. And I would try and ask them about themselves, and invariably the best leaders I met really never wanted to talk about themselves. And they deflected the conversation back to me, which made me like them even more. So there's a. There's a life hack here for people trying to get ahead. If you'll just be curious about the people you're interacting with, if you interested in them, you'll be interesting to them. Does that make sense?

[David McCloskey]

Yeah. And not only that, but. But the urge is to tell people how great you are and tell them all about you, when in fact what you just said is the better way.

[William van der Blumen]

Well, and it's not brown nosing the people. It's not like the super old black and white show Leave it to Beaver. You had Eddie Haskell telling Beaver's mom, oh, what a nice dress you have on, Mrs. Cleaver. It's not that, it's just how many kids do you have? Oh, what do you like to do? What do you really love about your job? It's being interested in them. And people like to talk about themselves. So you've just opened the door to their favorite subject in a way that's not, you know, false compliments or that sort of thing. It will open the door to further conversation and you will stand out in the crowd.

[David McCloskey]

I think in all the episodes of this podcast, you are the first person to bring up Eddie Haskell or Mrs. Cleaver from Leave it to Beaver ever. But talk about the self awareness, because I think that is so. I mean, how many people have we all met that and thought later, but that guy, that. That woman has no self awareness.

[William van der Blumen]

I think all of us could work on self awareness, and it's a pretty major blind spot. Self aware was one of those 12 habits. And what's interesting is the unicorns are incredibly interested in learning more about what they're good at and what they're not, how the world perceives them. And, you know, they're very good at this. So when we surveyed all 30,000 of the unicorns, we asked them to force rank. What are you best at? What are you worst out of these 12. Right. The list, the rankings were very different because everybody's wired differently. Like, some had this at the top. There wasn't a clear winner for most popular. The only clear winner was last place. And that was self awareness. So the. The unicorns, the 1%, the people who are best at self awareness, said that it was their worst of the 12. Like, I really gotta work on this now. You flip the script. We also surveyed 250,000 people, just randomly, like normal people like you and me, 91% of all those 250,000 said they were above average at self awareness. Like, I'm not a statistician, but I pretty sure there's not a group where 91% is above average. 50% is above 50%. Like, we all think we're. It's a major human blind spot. And people would say, well, I don't know what you're talking about. What do you mean? Let me ask you this, Mike. Do you remember when, back in your radio days, the first time you heard your voice recorded?

[David McCloskey]

Oh, of course.

[William van der Blumen]

Yeah. And what was that like? It's horrible.

[David McCloskey]

And no, nobody likes to hear their voice recorded the first time.

[William van der Blumen]

No, I hated. I was like, who is this person? I don't want to put me back on. I don't want to listen to this. This is all. It's cringey, right? That's the perfect example of how we see ourselves one way, but the world perceives us another. And the unicorns just get really determined at figuring out how is it people are seeing me, what am I good at, where do I need to get better, while most of the rest of us just float along thinking, I'm pretty good at all this.

[David McCloskey]

The problem though is if you lack self awareness, you lack the ability to know you need to fix your self awareness.

[William van der Blumen]

It's a bit of a chicken in an egg, right? Yeah. I think though, Mike, we're living in maybe the best season ever for people who want to develop self awareness. You know, there are literally hundreds of personality profiles you can take to discover what your strengths are or what gives you energy or where you're good with other people. Like, the Enneagram is super helpful. The disc inventory, we actually built one around these 12 habits and tested it against the 250,000 and the 30,000. Like, where am I in these 12 habits? Against the general population and against the unicorns. And that gives me a map for knowing how I am perceived and how I'm going to get better. So I think there's. It's, by the way, sorry, shameless plug. If you go to vanderindex.com, you'll. You'll see that profile. But there's so much that people can just take a first step.

[David McCloskey]

We are talking about 12 habits that are supported by a lot of data. 12 habits that will propel your success. And my guest is William van der Blumen, author of the book be the 12 data driven habits that separate the best leaders from the rest. You know, today anyone can sell anything online. And if you use Shopify to do it, you are setting yourself up for success. Shopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage. Of your business. Whether you're just setting up shop or you have a physical store, or even if you've had a million orders or more, Shopify will help you grow your business. Shopify helps you turn browsers into buyers. They have the Internet's best converting checkout 36% better on average compared to other leading commerce platforms. And what I love about Shopify and what you can see when you peek inside. No matter how big or small you are, Shopify offers everything to manage and control your business. And what's really great is you don't need to know anything about web design or coding or anything. Plus, Shopify's award winning help is there to support you every step of the way. Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.comsysk all lowercase go to shopify.comsysk to grow your business, no matter what stage you're in. Shopify.com symbol Dell Technologies Black Friday event is live. And if you've been waiting for an AI ready PC, this is their biggest sale of the year. Tech enthusiasts love this sale because it's all the newest hits plus all the greatest hits all on sale at once. Savings on Dell technologies. Most popular PCs that accelerate AI with Intel Core Ultra processors are here, like the XPS 16. So if you're ready to step up all the things you like to do, streaming, surfing, multitasking, whatever, Dell Technologies AI Ready PCs are the perfect upgrade. And for the best of Intel Core Ultra processors, look for Intel EVO Edition laptops engineered to do it all. Just visit Dell.com deals whether you're treating yourself or thinking of others, these Black Friday prices were worth the wait. But it's only for a limited time. Shop [e-mail] deals so William, talk about being authentic. You know, that's a phrase I've always struggled with because I'm not really sure what it means. But in terms of success, in terms of your own personal success, what do you mean by being authentic?

[William van der Blumen]

So One of the 12 habits is the unicorns, the very best of the best are incredibly authentic and they're perceived as incredibly authentic. You know Mike, in a world where we are dealing with more and more automated AI driven phone calls from that are robocalls, robo texts, robo. Anything that's truly humanly authentic is a higher value maybe than it's ever before. So, so how do I develop authenticity? I'm going to give you one life hack. Look people in the eye. Now I'm, I'm saying that both generally and Very intentionally, when I say look people in the eye if you're, if you're younger, right now, if you're Gen Z and you're listening to this, the number one complaint recruiters at have with the interviews that Gen Z is giving them is that Gen Z doesn't look him in the eye. Isn't that interesting? They just don't look up. I, we've got seven kids and so our kids that are, that don't use the phone, but FaceTime us all the time. They'll FaceTime us and then all I see is their nostrils because they're holding the phone and walking around, they're not actually looking at us. There's something lost in eye contact. So simply looking at people is first step toward authenticity. But here's the real, here's the real meat of the life hack. We have two eyes. One is dominant, one is peripheral. In other words, you see the world through one eye. The other eye just gives you perspective. Okay, Depth perception, that sort of thing. 90% of all humans on the planet are right eye dominant. It's how scopes are built on rifles. It's how lots of things are built around the fact that most of us are right eye dominant. So what that means is when you sit down with somebody to interface with them, if you will look not at the center of their nose, you can't look there. You can't look in both eyes at the same time. If you will look people in the eye, the right eye directly, you've got a 90% chance of being right. And what it produces is this. Have you ever sat in a room with somebody and talked to them and you go, they made me feel like I was the only person in the room. Chances are they were looking you dead in the eye. And I think that will convey a level of authenticity that makes people go, this person's different. They authentically care about me. They're authentically interested in me. And that one little life hack, I mean, just that one twitch, just look right at their right eye. It could make all the difference in getting ahead at whatever it is you're trying to get ahead at.

[David McCloskey]

So lastly, let's talk about productivity. Because it's such a big buzzword now and people are always, you hear it all the time. And so what does your data say about it?

[William van der Blumen]

Yeah, that unicorns get stuff done the very first chance they get. It's kind of like responding the very first chance you get. The top performers, the people who stand out in any crowd are the ones who actually go to Bed saying, I got something done. And that can sound pretty overwhelming. But I think that, you know, maybe the best advice I've heard is some old management advice. And if you've got time for a quick story, Years and years ago I had a really successful business guy mentoring me and very generous successful business guy mentoring me. And he called me and said he owned a bank. And he called me and said, come to my office, I'll give you a Christmas present. I'm like, cool. And this is kind of embarrassing, but the whole way there I'm like, I wonder what he got me. I bet it's pretty cool. Oh man, I wonder if it's this. I wonder if that Very selfish thought, sorry, but that's, that's where I was. And I got there and he handed me a little like all 2 by 3 inch day timer, really small with the bank's logo on it. Like he gives this to kids when they open a checking account. And he said, no, no, no, no. The calendar is not the gift. Here's the gift. I want you for the next year. You can do it the night before or the morning you wake up. I want you to write six objectives down. They're going to help you move forward in wherever you're trying to move forward. And that's just six things you want to get done this day, no more, no less. I said, why? He said, well, it's the oldest management consulting ever given. It was one of the first management consultants ever went to JP Morgan, the guy before, you know, Chase, and said, if you'll do this with your team, you'll get more productive. And they skyrocketed. And I was like, wow. And he said, yeah. And he said, if you'll do it consistently, you'll be amazed how much you get done. I said, well, what do you mean? And so he opened the credenza behind his desk and there were 30 years of those little day timers. He said, ask me what I got done on any day in the last 30 years. And I picked a date and he pulled it out and he showed me do this, this, this, this and this. And I just was like, wow, okay. And, and what really brought this home for me is you can feel overwhelmed feeling I've got to get everything done. I've got to get everything. It's right now, right now. But if you'll do small, you know, six tasks each day, that might be as a parent, how am I going to get six things done for my kids as a student? What am I going to do to Build my college resume as a How do I get the promotion at work? Six objectives every day and catalog them. I've graduated from the tiny little bank issued daytimer to Apple Notes and I just date them so I can see everything. It's amazing what happens. And it reminds me of. There's a quote that's gone around many times, but a good friend of mine said one time, you know, William, people overestimate what they can get done in a year, but they always underestimate what they can get done in a decade. And that's that sort of small deposits every day of here are six things I'm going to get done. And our research showed most people love talking about getting something done. Very few people actually take action. So one quick way to not get overwhelmed by I gotta get more done is to just say, could you. Could you go to Apple Notes and write down six things you want to get done? Apple Notes even has a little checkbox function, which I love. And you can just check the box when you get it done and look back and say, I got everything done today that I plan to get done. That creates momentum. A flywheel starts to turn and before you know it you stand out.

[David McCloskey]

And so what do you do? Because I've tried similar things before and sometimes you don't get all six things done. You just can't. And then the momentum starts to wane.

[William van der Blumen]

If you're consistently not hitting them, maybe you're making them too big. You know, my objective for today is to achieve world peace. Well, that box isn't going to get checked.

[David McCloskey]

That's going to be tough. Good luck.

[William van der Blumen]

So are you making these something that can actually get done? And if make them really small, make them so you could get it done by 10am and build your momentum that way. Momentum is the best friend of anyone trying to get ahead.

[David McCloskey]

You know when people ask me who haven't heard this podcast, like what do you do on your podcast? I said, well, one of the things we like to do is give people really good information, solid information that they can use in their lives. And you've just done that. Hit it out of the park. William Van der Blumen has been my guest. He is founder and CEO of Van der Blumen Search Group and he's author of the book be the 12 data driven habits that Separate the Best Leaders from the Rest. There's a link to his book at Amazon in the show notes if you would like to read it. Thank you for coming on and sharing this, William.

[William van der Blumen]

Thanks, Mike. I really appreciate being on your podcast. It's amazing how many hours and interviews you've done and you're really good at your job. I appreciate you having me.

[Unknown]

For many businesses, the holiday season can be both an exciting and stressful time. With so many balls in the air, one thing you definitely want to know you can rely on is how you're selling your products. And with Shopify, you can rest easy knowing it's the home of the number one checkout on the planet. Nobody does selling better than Shopify. And when it comes to successful brands like Aloe, Allbirds or Skims, an often overlooked secret is all the things that go on behind the scenes that make selling and for shoppers buying simple for millions of businesses. If you take a peek behind that curtain, you'll see that Shopify is what makes it all possible. Shop pay boosts conversions up to 50%, so that's more happy customers and way more sales going. It's true all the time, but especially this time of year. Your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or scrolling on the web, in your store, in their feed, and everywhere in between. Businesses that sell more sell on Shopify. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout we use for Realm Merch with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com realm all lowercase go to shopify.com realm to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com realm.

[Alexis Ohanian]

Great days start with great underwear. So if you're looking for something special, give Tommy John and gift a better day. Everything we make is meticulously crafted from breathable stretch fabric for the perfect fit, including our sleepwear for him and her. It feels good to give, but it feels great to give. Tommy John Find something for everyone and pick up something for yourself. Because at Tommy John, greatness is in our very fabric shop. Tommyjohn.com Spotify right now for 25% off your first order. Tommyjohn.com Spotify see site for details.

[David McCloskey]

If you watch movies or TV shows you have or think you have a pretty good understanding of what the CIA does. The image anyway is that the CIA is a spy agency. They do things in other countries to gather information, disrupt things, maybe overthrow governments. There's an element of rogueness to it that they do things that maybe we shouldn't or we don't want to know about, all in the name of national security. But is that really what the CIA does? Or does that just make good fiction? Well, let's find out, shall we? My guest is David McCloskey he is a former CIA analyst who wrote regularly for the President's Daily Brief. He delivered classified testimony to congressional oversight committees and briefed senior White House officials, ambassadors, military officials, and Arab royalty. And he has worked in CIA field stations across the Middle East. He is also author of a book called the Seventh Floor, which is a novel about spies. And I suspect it has a lot in there that is based on his knowledge and experience in the CIA. Hi, David. Welcome to something you should know.

[Mike Carruthers]

Hey, Mike, thanks for having me on.

[David McCloskey]

So I guess first, I guess what I'd like to know, because I think everybody has this idea in their head, but what is the CIA? What is it supposed to be doing? What does it do? What is it?

[Mike Carruthers]

I actually think the best way to think about it is to think about the CIA or sort of the work of the CIA as clandestine journalism. So if you think about the work that a investigative journalist does, they scope out a story. They go and recruit sources who have information. They put the story together with a whole bunch of disparate, you know, sources, facts, pieces of analysis. And they try to put it together into something that is coherent, that's objective, that's not value driven or Laden, you know, in the best cases of investigative journalism. And then they report the kind of what, why, and so what to their readers. And I think the CIA actually is trying to do something very similar. The CIA is out there writing about stories that the President and other American policymakers care about what's going on in the world. We're trying to find sources in the world who will give us that information, sell us that information. And we're trying to put it all together into a picture for the people in our country that make the most important national security decisions.

[David McCloskey]

So it's an information gathering organization.

[Mike Carruthers]

Absolutely. Information gathering and analysis is really what it is. And at its core, the agency, as we call it, exists to provide us and our elected officials with an information advantage. That is why the CIA exists. So we have more information or better information about what's going on in the world than other countries do.

[David McCloskey]

Is that all they do?

[Mike Carruthers]

Well, we do other things, but that's the primary objective.

[David McCloskey]

Because on TV that's not all they do.

[Mike Carruthers]

It is, you know, one, it's not. It's not as. It's not as entertaining as it, you know, obviously there, there are what we call covert action pieces of the work, which is when the President decides that they want something done in the world and they want it to be deniable, they'll turn to the CIA that stuff tends to be more fodder for fiction, more fodder for, you know, spy entertainment, or spytainment, as it's sometimes called. You know, it's, it's hard to make. There's a reason why Jack Ryan, as an analyst, you know, sort of had to have a gun. And, you know, talk about how this isn't what an analyst was supposed to do, because the actual work of an analyst is, is not car chases and guns and, you know, shooting bad guys. It's. It's finding the truth. But yeah, you're right. The Agency does other things. The Agency has covert action work that it does. The Agency has something that's called a special Activities center, which does some of the paramilitary work of the Agency. But I will stress that although those are very sort of sexy components from a, if you were talking about this like a business, those would be the pieces of the business that get all the press attention. But really, you know, are a small part of the overall operation.

[David McCloskey]

Because when I think of the CIA doing what they do, I know for one thing they say on TV all the time that the CIA is not allowed to operate on US soil, that what they do is somewhere else. Got to be somewhere else. And what they do is they spy on people, they gather information by spying on guys that are doing things and that they mess things up and that, you know, mission impossible, they kind of sabotage things. And from what I hear you saying, that's theater.

[Mike Carruthers]

Well, let's get down to the brass tacks of what we're talking about. When I mentioned the investigative journalism example, right? So recruiting a source, what does that actually mean? That actually means, and I'll just make up a hypothetical here, that actually means that maybe you're going and finding a Russian who has access to somebody in the Kremlin. And that Russian, you know, hates his boss and has, is in debt. Right? We're paying, we might pay that person if we can get in, you know, in front of them and sort of convince them that this could be done securely. We're paying that person to commit treason to tell us things they shouldn't tell us. So in effect, the day to day work of the CIA is breaking foreign laws. I mean, that is the sort of the definition of what we're doing. It very rarely involves shooting and car crashes and all the stuff you see on tv. But at its most basic level, we are, you know, it's an organization committed to convincing other people to commit treason in many respects. Sometimes for reasons we would consider noble, sometimes for reasons that are more mundane or even kind of gross in some cases, but that is the core of the work is stealing secrets.

[David McCloskey]

Okay, well, but the CIA, and what's the difference between the CIA and the NSA and the other spy agencies that we hear about? Do they work together? Do they not work together? Do they have different jobs? What's that all about?

[Mike Carruthers]

The US intelligence community, I think technically has like 16 or 17 entities inside it formally. And if that sounds like a ridiculous number, it's because it probably is. It can be overall very bloated. I think there's probably too much overlap and redundancy between many of these groups. But you know, for simplicity's sake, take a couple of the bigger organizations. So the CIA, the Central Intelligence Agency is our sort of premier foreign intelligence agency, meaning we are working abroad to steal secrets from foreign countries and groups. Right. The National Security Agency is our sort of primary signals intelligence arm, meaning they're doing a lot of the intercepts of phone communications, emails, et cetera, sort of manipulating electronic communication. You know, obviously you have the State Department, which is our sort of diplomatic arm overseas. I mean, there's intelligence agencies or entities inside the State Department, inside the FBI, inside the various services of the military. So if you kind of put all this on a couple pages, it's a bit overwhelming, but all of these groups in theory work together and in most cases actually do relatively well. But of course there are different cultures and all of that that sort of prevent clean cooperation at all times. And so there does then can be sort of competition over turf and dropped handoffs between the two. I mean, you know, it's all the things you'd expect with the massive, probably too large group of agencies that are all sort of distinct but have overlapping mission sets.

[David McCloskey]

So this all sounds very mundane, this, I mean, not mundane so much, but, but it doesn't sound as it's all that exciting, frankly. It, it's not what I was hoping to hear. I was hoping to hear about the guns and the, and the car chases, but.

[Mike Carruthers]

Well, well, look, I'll, I'll tell you this, that there are really. I mean, the, the mission of CIA is an exceptional one. And although it's not, you know, martinis and tuxedos and car chases, the agency is out there stopping and disrupting terrorist attacks. The agency is sending people into denied environments all the time under very exotic forms of COVID The agency is fielding incredible sort of next gen technology and it is producing really what I call the most sort of highly classified reports that our President reads. And what's called the President's Daily Brief, or pdb. So I see the work of the CIA as being highly exceptional, but it's also this sort of big organization at the same time that in many respects would resemble a Fortune 500 company. So I like to think of the place as being kind of a uniquely bipolar organization. On the one hand, it has this exceptional mission, which I don't think actually has a lot of parallels elsewhere or analogs elsewhere. And on the other side, you know, it's. It's a big place that's run by people. And so you get a lot of the foibles and quirks that go along with that.

[David McCloskey]

But so. But the CIA is only spying on, gathering information, working in other countries, is that correct?

[Mike Carruthers]

So the agency does have domestic field stations, but those are, those are for like, basically liaising with FBI and targeting foreign nationals who are in the States. The CIA is prevented from targeting Americans. The CIA does not recruit Americans. And the CIA is a foreign externally facing organization designed to collect on foreign nationals and foreign governments.

[David McCloskey]

And every country, I imagine, sophisticated country has some sort of CIA, Right?

[Mike Carruthers]

Absolutely, yeah.

[David McCloskey]

And are they all friends? Do they all have lunch together or do they.

[Mike Carruthers]

I mean, sometimes.

[David McCloskey]

What's the relationship?

[Mike Carruthers]

You know, we have liaison relationships with friendly services. So we're sharing information. Right. So, you know, we're sharing information with the Brits. You know, we're sharing information with the Israelis. They're sharing information with us. You know, you could, we could rattle off a long list of foreign intelligence services, some which I probably shouldn't, that we're engaged in business with. I think the key thing there is a lot of these relationships can be quite warm, they can be quite productive. But intelligence services, they don't generously give. It's an exchange with the expectation that we give something. Here, you give something back. This is commerce happening at the secret level.

[David McCloskey]

So there's no military component to the CIA or is there?

[Mike Carruthers]

There's a paramilitary component. Yeah.

[David McCloskey]

Who's that?

[Mike Carruthers]

It's called the, it's called the Special Activity Center. Ooh, yeah, yeah, I know. Isn't that a good. That's a good name.

[David McCloskey]

I like that.

[Mike Carruthers]

Special Activity Center. That is for. So if you, you recall, let's say, some of the first teams that went into Afghanistan after 9, 11, you know, you had a mix on those teams of sort of form, like kind of typical CIA case officers, but then you also had paramilitary officers who had typically come out of Army Special Forces or Delta Force or the Marines or something like that. They had A military background, and then they're. They're working at CIA, and the CIA has that group because sometimes you want to be able to deploy those types of assets in a deniable way under the auspices of what we call a covert action finding, which is when the President wants something done and they don't want us fingerprints on it. So that's kind of why the CIA has those groups.

[David McCloskey]

So talk a little bit about what you did at the CIA. What was your title?

[Mike Carruthers]

So I was an analyst. What does that mean?

[David McCloskey]

Like Jack Ryan?

[Mike Carruthers]

Yeah, well, you realize after about two days, it's not really like Jack Ryan. What I did was as I worked on, primarily Syria and on the broader Middle east. And I did a lot of my work from Langley. I did a lot of my work from the region. Most of what I was doing was taking, basically looking at all of this information that's coming in and. Right. And that could be. That's the human intelligence we've gathered. That's just stuff from press, that stuff from academics, that stuff from our embassy. It's the signals intelligence we talked about from the National Security Agency, intercepted phone calls, intercepted emails, et cetera. You're looking at all this and you're answering a question, really, that a policymaker might have. And so the example I like to give is, I was working on Syria in the opening days of its unrest, which eventually became a civil war. This was in early 2011. And the big question that no President Obama was asking was, okay, what are the scenarios for how this goes down? How long can Assad hold on to power? And so I was writing essentially an answer to that question in, like, two or three pages that's sourced and structured well, and gives the President the ability to sort of bound reality. You know, what might happen, what could happen, what would it mean for us in different scenarios? So that's an example of something that I wrote and then briefed downtown to, you know, to the White House, to the National Security Council, and analysts who work on Russia, you know, analysts who are working on all these different regions and countries, you know, are sort of topics today are answering similar questions depending on what might be going on.

[David McCloskey]

So when you go to work as an analyst for the CIA, does it just feel like you're going to work as an analyst for any other company? Or does it feel different? Does it feel special? Does it feel dangerous? Does it feel like, is there any sense of, ooh, I'm a spy?

[Mike Carruthers]

It feels now, after having done analysis for other companies since I've left what I will say is it does feel special. And the reason it feels special is because you are dealing with stolen information and you're dealing with information as a result that other people cannot access. And one of the fundamental, I think, highs of the place is that you are, or you can, you know, you can be sort of led to believe, and oftentimes, I think with reason, that you are kind of in the inner ring. You have access to stuff other people don't, which is a thrill. So I think for me, as I look back on it, I think, yeah, it is a special place because it has a very special mission and it's got access to very special stuff. And there's something inherently, even though I feel bad, Mike, I deflated you a little bit by saying it's not snide explosions and car chases and Jack Ryan. I think there's something very special about the place. You know, even now, me as an alum, I still feel. I think, I feel a fondness for that work because I felt like I was contributing to something that was bigger than myself and doing something that, frankly, was really cool.

[David McCloskey]

But in lore, not just in movies, but in real life, you know, there are people out there claiming that the CIA overthrew a government, that the CIA meddled in this and meddled in that. Is there a lot of meddling going on or that's people's propaganda?

[Mike Carruthers]

I do think you have to separate or at least. At least acknowledge that the CIA of the 50s and 60s and even early 70s is not the CIA of today. Right. The CIA that really helped kind of overthrow governments in Iran in 53 or in Syria later that decade in 56, I think, and in Guatemala. And the CIA that was actually, you know, in some cases, spying on Americans in the 60s, the CIA that was experimenting with psychedelic, you know, drugs on people like, this organization doesn't ex. That organization doesn't exist anymore. That was a far less institutionalized, that was finding its way at the height of the Cold War and essentially operated as the President's black bag outfit with sort of a wink and a nod from the President at the time. And it is not how the CIA operates today. When the CIA does something today, with basically no exceptions, it is doing that with the full support and frankly, like formal authority of the president. More so than just the CIA kind of going rogue or anything like that. I think the mental model of the CIA is some kind of like unconstrained bad actor that does its own thing is just simply false. The CIA operates as part of an interagency process in Washington that's driven by the White House and by the President, and it does the President's bidding. And the President, as you know, an elected official is. Is entitled to do so. So I think it's important that we kind of understand the CIA, not as some rogue actor, but as a piece of, you know, sort of the fabric, frankly, of our government and society.

[David McCloskey]

So I think about, though. I think about those, I guess, what are they, stars or something in the lobby of, you know, unnamed people? Well, if they're just gathering information, why do your identities have to be protected? Why? What's so secret about the people doing the work if they're just gathering information, reading the newspaper and talking to people?

[Mike Carruthers]

Look, we talked about the sort of COVID action side of things and the paramilitary side of things, and I don't have a direct number for you. I don't know it. My wager would be that a disproportionate number of the stars on that wall come from that sort of thing. So it's not just pure information gathering, to be clear. But in either case, the reason why many of those stars are not named. And by the way, many of them are. I mean, if you go into the original headquarters building lobby and there's a book that's actually kind of in a case by that wall, and there are names attached to many of the stars, if not most, some of them do not have names. And the reason for that, although I certainly couldn't speak to any, whether any of this on an individual basis is still justified, is because the details around that operation, be they sources, be they methods, remain classified, and so the names cannot be made public.

[David McCloskey]

Is it like on tv, that when you're an analyst or some other, you know, frontline kind of CIA person, that you can't tell your wife what you're doing, that you can't tell your wife where you're going, that everything is confidential?

[Mike Carruthers]

For the most part, yes. You know, it depends a little bit on your role. So, you know, and I was an analyst. Like, my wife knew that where I worked, my W2 said Central Intelligence Agency. And yet, you know, sometimes I could almost always be open with her about where I was going, but I couldn't really say much about what I was actually doing.

[David McCloskey]

Well, this answers a lot of questions I think people have about the CIA, what really goes on. It's really. It's kind of fun to hear, but it's also, I think, important for people to understand what happens. I've been Speaking with David McCluskey a former CIA analyst. He has written three novels. His most recent is called The Seventh Floor, which is about spies and you can read it and hear more about the CIA. There's a link to that book in the show. Notes. Thanks David. Thanks for explaining all this.

[Mike Carruthers]

Hey, thanks Mike for having me. Really enjoyed our conversation.

[David McCloskey]

You may have heard that chewing gum can improve test scores. That's true if you know how to chew the gum. Researchers split 224 undergraduates into three groups and then put gum to the test. One group chewed before and during the test, the next group chewed for five minutes before the test, and the third group didn't chew anything at all. The pre test chewers outperformed the other two groups. It seems that chewing gum before the test did boost performance, but only for about 20 minutes. Chewing gum can literally warm up the brain by increasing blood flow to the head. Those who chewed gum through the entire test didn't get the benefits because all that chewing gets tiresome and can actually SAP brain power after a few minutes. And that is something you should know. Could you do me a favor and just tell one one or two people that you know about this podcast and suggest that they listen to it? Because like every podcast, we always need new listeners. It's how the audience grows, it's how the podcast grows. It really helps us out and it doesn't take much. Just share this podcast with someone you know and help our audience grow. I'm Mike Carruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know.

[Unknown]

Hi, I'm Alexis Ohanian. You may know me as one of the co founders of Reddit, but more recently a large part of my identity is being a father to my wonderful daughters. In my podcast Business Dad, I hope to open the conversation about working parents a bit. You'll get to hear from a wide range of business dads, from Rainn Wilson and Guy Raz to Todd Carmichael and Shane Battier to find out how they balance being a dad with a successful career. Business dad is available now, so be sure to listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

[David McCloskey]

I want to tell you about a podcast I really like, and I think you'll like it too. It's called the Gist. Now the Gist is the longest running news and commentary podcast out there. The host, Mike Pesca, puts out these very interesting arguments and asks great questions of his guests, which often get him some great, interesting and sometimes unusual answers. Just to give you a sampling, a couple of recent guests include the Pixar and Saturday Night Live writer who got an early version of AI which convinced him that computers were going to be able to replace comedy writers within five years. He spoke with a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who realized he was being lied to by scientists to throw him off the scent of the COVID lab leak theory and the paleontologist who had to lose 50 pounds so he could squeeze through this narrow crevice so he could see in person the 250,000 year old bones of a species that he discovered. Now, if any of this sounds interesting, and trust me, it's really an interesting podcast, listen to the gist wherever you listen to podcasts.