Podcast Summary: "Thanksgiving Myths, Foods & Forgotten Traditions"

Podcast: Something You Should Know
Host: Mike Carruthers
Guest: Leslie Landrigan, New England historian and author
Episode Date: November 25, 2025

Episode Overview

In this holiday bonus episode, Mike Carruthers explores the myths, foods, and overlooked traditions surrounding Thanksgiving. Joined by Leslie Landrigan, author of Historic Thanksgiving Foods and the People who Cook Them, 1607–1955, the discussion uncovers the surprising realities of the first Thanksgiving, how the menu evolved, and why much of our holiday imagery doesn’t match the 1621 celebration. The episode also highlights the forgotten stories of the women who cooked that first feast, the invention of new traditions, and even a fun fact about "Jingle Bells."

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin of the Presidential Turkey Pardon

• The tradition began with informal turkey gifts to presidents in the 1800s, especially with Lincoln, but the modern "pardon" dates only to 1989 with George H.W. Bush.
• Quote:
  • “The first president to officially pardon a Turkey was George H.W. Bush in 1989. … From that point, every president has kept that tradition alive.” (03:26)

2. What Was Eaten at the First Thanksgiving?

• The classic image of turkey, cranberry sauce, stuffing, and pumpkin pie is almost entirely inaccurate.
  • Menu Reality: Birds (possibly turkey, but also many others), deer (provided by Native Americans), shellfish, corn-based dishes, maybe lobster.
  • Notable Quote:
    • “We know that they had four deer that the natives brought... and the men went out shooting birds... probably shellfish, probably corn. That's what we know for sure. Lobster, maybe.” (05:48) - Leslie Landrigan

3. Pumpkin: The Staple of Early New England

• Pumpkin was a dietary mainstay and the subject of America’s first folk song.
  • Quote:
    • “One of the things that they always ate, and they ate to excess... is pumpkin. Pumpkin was hugely important. ... The first American folk song was written in 1620, and it was about how they ate too much pumpkin.” (07:46, 08:30) - Leslie Landrigan
• Nickname: "Pumpkinheads" for New Englanders.

4. How Did Turkey Become the Thanksgiving Centerpiece?

• Wild turkeys were abundant but not celebrated as the main dish until the 19th century.
• Sarah Josepha Hale, influential editor, popularized turkey as the centerpiece and lobbied for Thanksgiving to become a national holiday.
  • Quote:
    • “She was an American influencer and she was the one who made turkey the centerpiece of the American meal.” (11:25) - Leslie Landrigan

5. Early Thanksgiving Menus

• Included:
  • Nassamp: Native corn porridge with nuts, berries, possibly sweetener.
  • Striped Bass: Common and sustaining fish.
  • Shellfish, Deer, Wildfowl
  • Lack of Desserts: Indian pudding (cornmeal, milk, sweetener) developed later.
  • No potatoes, stuffing, or pie.
• Potatoes:
  • Sweet potatoes were a known European luxury, not available in the colonies until well after 1621.
  • White potatoes arrived even later and were initially shunned.
  • Notable French connection with potatoes' popularity (14:35).

6. The Three Sisters and Vegetables

• Natives’ staple of squash (pumpkin), beans, and corn was vital for colonists' nutrition.
• Cranberries: Revered by natives, used for dye, medicine, and sweetener; some contemporary Wampanoag communities still celebrate Cranberry Day.
  • Quote:
    • "Oh, they would have had cranberries, definitely. The natives revered the cranberry." (19:04) - Leslie Landrigan

7. Vegetable History

• No familiar vegetables like celery or potatoes on the first Thanksgiving.
• Celery didn’t arrive until the American Revolution and became a restaurant staple item for its crispness in fall (19:52–20:38).

8. The Women Who Cooked the First Thanksgiving (20:57–23:13)

• Only four women—Mary Brewster, Susanna Winslow, Elizabeth Hopkins, Elizabeth Billington—cooked for as many as 140 people under dire conditions.
• Stories behind each, including family drama and connections to Shakespearean history.
  • Memorable Moment: Elizabeth Hopkins’s husband inspired a character in Shakespeare’s The Tempest.

9. Pilgrims and Native Americans: Cooperation, Not Just a Feast

• The gathering was more like a state dinner, with underlying motives of negotiation and alliance-building rather than a simple shared meal.
  • Quote:
    • “If you’re going to call [this] a Thanksgiving, then the pilgrims in 1621 were not the first. … The two groups came together… Basically, it was more of a state dinner than it was a Thanksgiving.” (06:37) - Leslie Landrigan
• These groups intermingled regularly—trading, teaching (e.g., fishing, growing corn), and even saving lives.

10. Thanksgiving as a National Holiday: A Later Invention

• The "Thanksgiving" we celebrate (thankfulness, family feasts) didn’t exist until the 19th century; prior commemorative meals were rare, scattered, and themed around specific blessings, not harvest.
  • Quote:
    • “It wasn’t really Thanksgiving until the 19th century. It was kind of forgotten. … Thanksgiving was something that the English celebrated in England.” (25:52) - Leslie Landrigan
• Abraham Lincoln officially made it a national holiday.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Pumpkin's Role:
  “People used to call New Englanders pumpkinheads. New England was the pumpkin dominion.” (07:46) – Leslie Landrigan
• On the Origin of turkey as Thanksgiving’s Star:
  “She was way more influential than Martha Stewart. … She was the one who made turkey the centerpiece.” (11:25) – Leslie Landrigan
• On Cooking for the First Thanksgiving:
  “Here are these four women who have to pluck all the birds... They have no running water. They've got to cook outside. It just would have been a nightmare.” (21:14) – Leslie Landrigan

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Presidential Turkey Pardon Origin: 03:00–04:30
• First Thanksgiving Foods: 05:36–10:01
• Why Pumpkin? 07:46–09:06
• Turkey as National Centerpiece: 10:01–11:47
• Early Thanksgiving Menu Rundown: 11:47–12:53
• Potato’s Delayed Arrival: 12:53–15:33
• Cranberries and New England Foods: 19:04–19:40
• Women of Thanksgiving: 20:57–23:13
• State Dinner vs. Modern Thanksgiving: 23:13–24:42, 25:52–27:12

Fun Holiday Fact: "Jingle Bells"

• Written for Thanksgiving sleigh rides in Medford, MA, in 1857, only adopted as a Christmas song over time.
• “The tune was first performed by children at a Thanksgiving concert at their church… so the next time you hear Jingle Bells… you’re actually listening to a Thanksgiving song that accidentally became a Christmas classic.” (28:00)

Conclusion

This episode debunks countless Thanksgiving myths, replacing them with flavorful facts. The story of Thanksgiving is one of adaptation, resilience, and evolving traditions—marked by collaboration, hardship, and reinvention. Whether you’re serving turkey or just enjoying pumpkin pie, knowing the real roots and forgotten contributors adds a richer “flavor” to the holiday.

Guest Book Reference:
Historic Thanksgiving Foods and the People who Cook Them, 1607–1955 by Leslie Landrigan.