The Human Need to Matter & The Enduring Appeal of Cats

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Human Need to Matter & The Enduring Appeal of Cats

Something You Should Know with Mike Carruthers
Date: January 5, 2026

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Overview

This episode of "Something You Should Know" dives into two fascinating themes:

1. The fundamental human need to matter—why we crave significance, what happens when it’s missing, and actionable ways to nurture it.
2. The enduring appeal of cats—from their improbable domestication to their ambivalent charms and the deep human bond with these mysterious creatures.

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Segment 1: How Gratitude Changes the Brain

[00:42–02:25]

• Intentional gratitude practices (journaling, letter writing, reflecting on what you’re thankful for) are proven to boost wellbeing, reduce stress, and strengthen emotional health.
• Brain studies show gratitude activates reward, social connection, and emotional regulation regions of the brain; these benefits can persist for weeks or months.
• Think of gratitude as a muscle—the more you exercise it, the more your brain changes to notice and appreciate positive experiences.

“Gratitude doesn’t just feel good in the moment, it appears to train your brain to notice positive experiences more readily and respond with less stress and more positive emotion down the road.”
—Mike Carruthers [01:34]

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Segment 2: The Human Need to Matter: Conversation with Jennifer Brahini Wallace

[02:25–24:18]

The Universal Drive to Matter

[02:25–05:49]

• Mattering transcends food and shelter: After basic needs, the need to matter shapes behaviors—for better or worse.
• When fulfilled, we engage positively; when denied, we risk withdrawal, anxiety, depression, substance abuse, and even anger.
• “People will go to desperate measures to prove they matter, even in a negative way.”
  —Jennifer Brahini Wallace [00:47, 05:44]

The Difference Between Mattering and Feeling Like You Matter

[05:49–07:38]

• Mattering is a felt experience—you may objectively matter yet not feel it if no one recognizes your contribution.
• Feedback is crucial: “If their efforts are never acknowledged, that sense of purpose can fade and actually lead to burnout.”
  —Jennifer Brahini Wallace [06:35]
• You can connect to your impact through internal reflection, not just external validation.

How to Remind Yourself You Matter

[07:38–09:09]

• Jennifer shares her nightly ritual:
  • She answers, “When did I feel valued today?” and “When did I add value today, even in a small way?”
• Emphasizes small acts—letting someone have a parking spot counts.

“Those days, it might be that I was in the parking lot at the supermarket... I waved somebody else to let them get it. So even in that teeny, tiny way I mattered.”
—Jennifer Brahini Wallace [08:10]

Mattering Across Life Stages

[09:09–10:18]

• Adolescence and life transitions (job loss, empty nest, grief) are periods when our sense of mattering can take a hit as roles that once brought value change.

The Ingredients of Mattering: SED Framework

[10:18–12:45]

• Significance: Feeling important, especially in small, everyday ways.
• Appreciation: Being valued for who you are, not just what you do.
• Invested-In: Feeling that others support your goals and setbacks.
• Depended-On: Knowing someone relies on you.

“Importance and significance, it’s really about mattering in the details, mattering in the mundane things of life.”
—Jennifer Brahini Wallace [10:41]

Actionable Tip:

• Let people know you rely on them. Simple texts can make a difference.

The Reciprocity of Mattering

[12:45–13:46]

• To boost your own sense of mattering, remind others they matter, too.
• Practice vulnerability—letting others “see the real you” strengthens authentic connection (“the beautiful mess effect”).

Mattering Fluctuates—Advice for “Mattering Too Much” or “Not Enough”

[14:53–18:04]

• Mattering comes and goes and isn’t a trophy.
• Sometimes, especially as caretakers or busy parents, you can feel like you matter “too much”—but that’s a false sense.
• Focus daily on meeting one need for yourself to avoid burnout.

“True mattering is about feeling valued and adding value to others, but also feeling valued and adding value to ourselves.”
—Jennifer Brahini Wallace [15:16]

• Build vulnerable friendships—find 1–3 people to open up with.

The Dark Side: Acting Out When You Don’t Matter

[18:04–20:05]

• Behaviors like road rage and incivility can be expressions of unmet mattering.
• See these actions as signals—possibly opportunities for compassion.

Is This a Modern Problem?

[20:05–23:35]

• Erosion of support “ecosystems” (neighborhoods, workplaces, churches) has made mattering less “automatic.”
• Technology promotes frictionless interactions but undermines the messy, friction-filled nature of real relationships.
• “Tech has... lowered our tolerance for friction in our everyday lives. And what are relationships? They are friction makers... But what it is doing is making us feel lonely and like we matter less.”
  —Jennifer Brahini Wallace [21:56]

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Segment 3: The Enduring Appeal of Cats: Conversation with Jerry Moore

[24:24–44:32]

How Cats Became Pets

[25:43–29:47]

• Wild cats lived on every continent except Australia and Antarctica, but all domestic cats trace back to one Near Eastern/North African species.
• Domestication began when humans stored grain, attracting mice, which in turn attracted cats—a symbiotic relationship developed.
• Early evidence: 10,000-year-old burial on Crete with a young man and his pet cat (with a necklace), signifying the bond.

Cats as Gods and Cultural Icons

[29:47–30:53]

• In ancient Egypt, cats were sacred and associated with goddesses like Bubastis; millions mummified and offered in burial rituals.

Timeline: How Long Have Cats Lived With Humans?

[30:53–31:16]

• Likely 10,000–15,000 years of domestic history.

Feral and Domestic Cats Today

[31:16–33:34]

• USA: Estimated 50–70 million feral cats—descendants of lost or abandoned pets.
• Feral cats can survive and significantly impact native wildlife.
• Bobcats and other wild cat species are distinct from feral domestic cats.

Have Domestic Cats Changed Over Time?

[35:02–36:01]

• Modern breeds (Siamese, Maine Coon, etc.) arose only in the last 100–150 years.
• Ancient cats and modern ones look strikingly similar, especially in bone structure.

Why Are Cats So Charismatic (Yet Aloof)?

[36:01–38:29]

• Cats are “charismatic species”: animals that intensely draw human fascination (like lions, tigers, elephants).
• Even Paleolithic cave art features charismatic animals—there’s a deep history to our attraction to cats.
• Modern advertising and popular media echo these preferences.

"There’s been a lot of research on this by advertisers... and we know what the top 20 charismatic species are. And of the top 10, I think it’s four are different varieties of cats..." —Jerry Moore [36:50]

Human-Cat Bonds Through History

[39:03–41:10]

• Ancient cultures buried people with their cats, affirming powerful emotional bonds.
• Today, it’s illegal in most US states to be buried with a pet; pet cremation is a common alternative.

Surprising Cat Facts

[41:10–43:46]

• Tail-up greeting: When a cat approaches with its tail up, it’s a friendly signal.
• Cats are smarter and more curious than most pets—with remarkable spatial memory.
• Cats remember people, places, and routines.
  • Example: Mike’s own cat returned home years after being rehomed, going directly to its old food dish (“It was remembering an experience of time for dinner.” —Mike Carruthers [43:54]).

The Mystery and Appeal of Cats

[43:46–44:32]

• Dogs are “open books”, but cats’ mystique and independence fuel their lasting appeal.
• Jerry Moore notes that cats' brains and behaviors are subtler, which deepens the allure for many owners.

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Segment 4: Home Remedies for a Cold

[44:38–46:18]

• Effective: Honey and warm drinks can soothe symptoms; chicken soup helps hydration, congestion, and inflammation.
• Supplements: Vitamin C and zinc have mixed evidence—may marginally shorten colds but are no cure.
• Main message: Remedies make you more comfortable—not a cure.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "After the need for food and shelter, it is the need to matter that shapes our behavior."
  —Jennifer Brahini Wallace [00:47, 04:31]

• “True mattering is about feeling valued and adding value to others, but also feeling valued and adding value to ourselves.”
  —Jennifer Brahini Wallace [15:16]

• "There’s a reason why in Alice in Wonderland, Lewis Carroll did not write about the Cheshire dog."
  —Jerry Moore [42:11]

• "When a domesticated cat approaches you and its tail is up, that’s a symbol signifying, yeah, I want to interact with you." —Jerry Moore [41:22]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Gratitude & The Brain: [00:42–02:25]
• Understanding the Need to Matter: [02:25–05:49]
• How to Feel Like You Matter: [07:38–09:09]
• SED Framework Ingredients: [10:18–12:45]
• Compassion for “Acting Out”: [18:04–20:05]
• Modern Erosion of Mattering: [20:05–23:35]
• How Cats Became Domestic Animals: [25:43–29:47]
• Cats as Cultural Icons: [29:47–30:53]
• Charismatic Animals & Human Fascination: [36:01–38:29]
• Surprising Cat Behaviors: [41:10–43:46]
• Effective Cold Remedies: [44:38–46:18]

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Tone & Style

• Warm, conversational, insightful, and practical.
• The episode encourages reflection, empathy, and understanding for both ourselves and others—while also indulging in curiosity about the natural world and our place in it.

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Recommended For:
Anyone seeking deeper connection, struggling with existential questions of significance, cat lovers (and skeptics!), or simply curious-minded listeners who appreciate both practical advice and stories with historical perspective.

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Transcript

[Alex Honnold]

I'm Alex Honnl, professional rock climber and founder of the Honl Foundation.

[Mike Carruthers]

I wanted to let you know about a brand new season of the Planet.

[Alex Honnold]

Visionaries podcast in partnership with the Rolex Perpetual Planet Initiative.

[Mike Carruthers]

This is the podcast exploring bold ideas and big solutions from the people leading the way in conservation.

[Alex Honnold]

Join me in conversation with the likes.

[Mike Carruthers]

Of climate champion Mark Ruffalo, biologist and.

[Alex Honnold]

Photographer Christina Mittermeier, and one of the most successful conservationists of our time, Chris Tompkins.

[Mike Carruthers]

Join us on Planet Visionaries wherever you get your podcasts. Today on Something you should know how the simple act of expressing gratitude can actually change your brain Then the human need to matter to be significant. We all have it and it's powerful.

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

After the need for food and shelter, it is the need to matter that that shapes our behavior. People will go to desperate measures to prove they matter, even in a negative way.

[Mike Carruthers]

Also, home remedies that really work when you have a cold. And cats. They're aloof, mysterious, yet they're the second most popular pet there is.

[Alex Honnold]

I think that cats fall into this category of what we think of as charismatic species. And this is a term that comes out of wildlife biology for animals and in some cases plants that seem to really attract human attention.

[Mike Carruthers]

All this today on Something you should Know.

[Alex Honnold]

Something you should Know, fascinating intel, the world's top experts and practical advice you can use in your life today.

[Mike Carruthers]

Something youg Should Know with Mike Carruthers so I'm sure you've heard the advice to be thankful for what you have have gratitude. Well, what is that supposed to do for you, exactly? Well, I'm about to tell you as we begin this episode of Something you should know. Studies have consistently shown that intentional gratitude practices like keeping a gratitude journal or writing gratitude letters or just reflecting on what you're thankful for are are linked with improved well being, reduced stress, and stronger emotional health. Researchers have even started looking at what's happening in the brain when people practice gratitude. Brain scanning studies show that gratitude exercises activate regions in the brain involved in reward, emotional regulation and social connection. And the neural sensitivity related to gratitude can persist weeks or even months after a short gratitude intervention. In other words, gratitude doesn't just feel good in the moment, it appears to train your brain to notice positive experiences more readily and respond with less stress and more positive emotion down the road. Thinking of your brain as having a kind of gratitude muscle that you can exercise through simple activities like journaling or letter writing isn't just metaphorical. There's growing evidence that it reflects real Changes in your brain. And that is something you should know. There's a basic human need we almost never talk about, but it quietly drives a lot of what we do. It is the need to matter, to feel seen to know what you do and who you are actually counts. Most of us will go to surprising lengths to feel that sense of significance. We chase it at work, at home, online, in relationships, in. And when we don't get it, when we feel invisible or disposable, it doesn't just feel bad. It can lead to real problems, from burnout and anxiety to risky behavior and bad decisions. So why is the need to matter so powerful? What happens when it's missing? And how do you build a sense of mattering that is not dependent on constant approval or achievement? That's what we're going to explore with Jennifer Brahini Wallace. She's an award winning journalist and author of the book the Secret to a Life of Deep Connection and Purpose. Hi Jennifer. Welcome. Glad to have you on. Something you should know.

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

Oh, thanks so much for having me.

[Mike Carruthers]

So I get the concept. I know what it means to want to matter. But you've studied this pretty deeply. So what does mattering mean to you?

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

Yeah, I thought I knew what it meant to matter. I had this. You know, it's a word we hear kicked around. But what I found fascinating is that not only do we all have it, not only is it a universal human need, but that it is the driver of human behavior, for better or for worse. What I mean by that is after the need for food and shelter, it is the need to matter, the drive to matter, that shapes our behavior. When we feel like we matter to each other, to our communities, to our workplaces, we show up to the world in positive ways. We want to contribute, we want to engage and connect. But when we are chronically made to feel like we don't matter, which is what we are seeing on a global level today, we often withdraw. We become anxious, depressed, turn to substances to try to alleviate that ache, that pain. Or we can lash out in anger. Think of road rage, think of online attacks and political extremes. People will go to desperate measures to prove they matter, even in a negative way.

[Mike Carruthers]

And what is the difference? Because I imagine there is a big difference between mattering and feeling like you matter. That I imagine a lot of people matter, but they don't feel like they do. They don't have any validation of that. But they actually objectively really do matter.

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

Yes. So mattering is a felt experience. So you could matter and now not feel like you matter. And so, as you point out, it is critical that we really create this new social norm where we connect people to the impact that they have. So the reason people often feel like they don't matter is because no one tells them that they do. No one sort of circles back. They offer advice to someone, but they don't know if that advice was taken. They believe, you know, they might even be going through the world with a deep sense of purpose. But if their efforts are never acknowledged, that sense of purpose can fade and actually lead to burnout. So it is important to matter, but perhaps it's most important to feel like you matter. And I will say we are not necessarily dependent on others to connect to our impact. Yes, as social creatures, we are. You know, we crave that social proof that we matter, that who we are and what we do make a difference. But there are everyday ways that we can connect to our impact that could help us feel like we matter if we are questioning it.

[Mike Carruthers]

So can you give me an example of that? Of how do you make yourself feel like you matter when you don't feel like you matter?

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

I could tell you something that I've started to do in my own life. I hate to journal. I'll admit it. As a writer, I do not feel like journaling after a day of writing. And so I have this 30 second exercise before I go to bed. I have a small notebook next to my bed in my top drawer, and I write in it. I answer two questions. When did I feel value today? And when did I add value today, even in a small way? Right. Those days when I am working 12 hours and writing and sort of sequestered alone in my office, I don't always necessarily feel like I'm adding value. So those days, it might be that I was in the parking lot at the supermarket and it was my turn to get this great spot, but I waved somebody else to let them get it. So even in that teeny, tiny way I mattered, I made somebody's day a little easier. I made them smile. So it just takes pausing and creating a habit of seeing big and small ways that we make an impact on the world around us.

[Mike Carruthers]

So I would imagine somebody's done a survey, if you were to ask people, do you feel like you matter? Is it. The majority of people do. The majority of people don't. I mean, where does that play out?

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

I think it depends on life stages. So our sense of mattering. Mattering matters throughout the lifespan. It starts from the earliest of days, and it matters right up until we pass. But there are certain times of life when our sense of mattering can take a hit. So the adolescent years, when we are building a sense of self and we are searching the world for messages that we matter or we don't matter, when we go through life transitions, transitions, getting a new job, relocating, or even, you know, especially perhaps negative life transitions, grief, getting fired, empty nesting. These are times when our sense of mattering can really take a hit. When the roles that used to provide a sense of value and meaning, where it was clear, where we were adding value, when those roles change, we can really be left wondering, do we matter now?

[Mike Carruthers]

Can you talk about and explain what you call the ingredients of mattering?

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

Yeah. So I have put them together into a kind of framework that I call the SED framework. So it's easy to remember. So S stands for significance, a feeling of importance. And what I mean by that is not necessarily the importance you feel at a milestone birthday, when people are toasting you, when you receive an award at work. What struck me the most in interviewing hundreds of people about mattering was that they felt significant in the small moments of life when someone remembered something about them, when their preferences were remembered. So importance and significance, it's really about mattering in the details, mattering in the mundane things of life. Feeling like you are remembered. Appreciation is the next ingredient. That is feeling appreciated for who you are inside, not just what you do. So, for example, if you have a friend who. Who buys you a sweater, you can say to them, thank you for this beautiful sweater. Or you can feed their sense of mattering by appreciating them for who they are. Thank you for always being the most generous and thoughtful friend. I am so lucky to have someone like you in my life. The next ingredient is invested in. It's the idea that there are people in our lives who are invested in our goals and who are there to support us through setbacks. And the last ingredient is feeling dependent on or relied on. Are there people in your life who depend on you? We live in such a hyper individualistic culture that we often don't signal to people how much we rely on them or depend on them. And so what I would say to anybody listening is to let the people in your life know that you rely on them. And you can do it in simple ways. You could send a simple text to someone saying, if it weren't for you, you know, if it weren't for you, I wouldn't have had the courage to go for that job interview. Thank you for believing in Me before I could even believe in myself. So the said framework really narrow in on the main ingredients to mattering.

[Mike Carruthers]

We're talking about the need to matter in the world. And my guest is Jennifer Brahini Wallace, author of the book the Secret to a Life of Deep Connection and Purpose. So, Jennifer, I imagine everybody has times in their life where they feel like they don't matter to anybody in particular. They just feel matterless. But you also have to keep in mind that you may feel like you don't matter, but are you showing the people in your life that they matter, that those people are important to you? We get so caught up in our own feelings of not mattering, we forget to remind other people that they matter to us.

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

That's exactly right. The fastest way to feel like you matter again is to remind someone else why they do. I'd also. You know, I think about this litmus test. When I'm feeling like I don't matter or my sense of mattering is taking a hit, I ask myself this one question. I say, am I letting people in to see me and know me for who I am deep inside? Am I leaning on my people? Am I opening up? Or do I feel like I need to go through whatever struggle or whatever I'm going through in the busyness of life on my own? People often don't want to invite people into their lives when they're going through something hard. But there's research that I love called the beautiful Mess effect, which is the idea that we often overestimate how much people will appreciate us opening up to them. That opening up, revealing a bit of our struggle to others, actually makes us look more authentic, and it actually brings people closer to us. So if you're feeling like you don't matter, ask yourself, do you have one or two or three people in your life who know you for who you are deep inside? And if you don't think about ways that you can start to invite those people into your life.

[Mike Carruthers]

I don't think anybody gets through life without feeling at some point like they don't matter or that they matter less than they used to, that, I mean, it does seem to come and go depending on your life situation.

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

That's exactly right. I mean, mattering is not some sort of trophy that we win and we put up on our shelves. It is fluid. And there are moments in life when we feel almost like we matter too much. I mean, that's the other end of the spectrum. When you are a busy parent or a caretaker, you can feel like you matter Way too much. But that, too, is not a true sense of mattering. That is almost a false sense of mattering. True mattering is about feeling valued and adding value to others, but also feeling valued and adding value to ourselves. So in those moments when either I feel like I matter too much or maybe I'm not feeling like I matter at all, one thing you can start to do to turn that around is to really focus on mattering to yourself in small ways. So I'll talk about it from the perspective of a busy parent. I am the parent of three children, and I often felt like it was my job to meet everybody else's needs. And if there was time left at the end of the day, maybe I could meet a need of my own. But often weeks went by when none of my needs were met. But what I found was that that burned me out. I wasn't thriving when I was allowing that to happen. And so advice that I would give anybody who is in that sort of struggle of mattering too much, is to think about every day, one small need for yourself that you could fill so that you can show up as your best self for the people who rely on you. And it might be something small. It might be, you know, I want to sit for a half hour and read my book uninterrupted, sipping my coffee. Or for another woman that I interviewed who had two small children. For one hour a day, she would take a walk, which was a kind of meditative walk. It wasn't for exercise. It was simply to come back to herself and to show herself that she was a priority, too. So if you are struggling with feeling like you don't matter, I would say start with mattering to yourself again. Finding, getting in touch, tuning into what you need so that you can show up as your best self. That's number one. And then number two, I would say ask yourself if you're investing in your friendships, finding one or two people in your life that you can open up to, that you can be vulnerable with, and who will be vulnerable with you. Those relationships feed our sense of mattering. They remind us that we matter for who we are.

[Mike Carruthers]

You mentioned at the very beginning that you know that a symptom of feeling like you don't matter might be something like road rage, which, you know, doesn't seem on the surface to be connected. So connect it for me.

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

Yeah. So mattering is a deep human need that we inherited from our earliest ancestors. It's an evolutionary need. We need to know that we are valued by our band or Our group. And so when, when we are made to feel like we don't matter, we will act out in ways as if to say, oh, I don't matter. I'll show you I matter. And that is what road rage is, right? Somebody feels cut off, either literally or figuratively, and so they are asserting their sense of mattering. Oh, I will show you I matter. So it's almost like death demanding attention, demanding it. Once you see the world through the lens of mattering, you cannot unsee it. You will see that when people are rude to you, incivility, these are signs that they are struggling with a sense of mattering themselves. I'm not saying to let people off the hook, but I'm saying instead of getting furious and judgmental when people are acting out, you might get curious, what is it that. When are they feeling like they don't matter what might be going on in this person's life? And again, I'm not saying that you have to excuse it, but instead, maybe you can meet it with a little bit of compassion. There are so many people today struggling with this unmet need to matter. And it shows up in anger, it shows up in loneliness, it shows up in disengagement at work. These symptoms that we often look at as kind of separate things are really rooted in mattering, in feeling like I don't matter.

[Mike Carruthers]

You know what I'm wondering is this lack of mattering that you're talking about that people feel, is this a contemporary problem, do you think? Or has this always happened? Has this always been going on?

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

I think that is a great question. And what I will say is it was first studied mattering in. So I don't have data before that day, but I could be pretty assured that back 50 years ago, people struggled with mattering less. And here's why. Here's why I believe that is there were ecosystems, there were neighborhoods, close knit neighborhoods. People had a social contract at work where if you worked and you were loyal for 40 years, you would be rewarded with a pension. People felt more connected. There were, you know, we were a more religious society. And all the major religions talk about this idea of unconditional worth, unconditional value. So what has happened over the last several decades is that these ecosystems that used to deliver mattering, religious institutions, neighborhoods, workplaces, communities, those have eroded. And so when we are struggling with feeling like we don't matter, we feel it. So personally, we do not have backup systems to remind us of our worth. So instead it makes us feel even more isolated. So I do Think. And by the way, I think tech has fueled this erosion of mattering and, and magnified it. Tech has. You know, when you, when you go to Silicon Valley, all of the companies, the startup tech companies talk about a frictionless experience, that they want the customer to be able to press a button and get their food, get their product. Things should be easy. This frictionless life that tech is trying to deliver for us has really lowered our tolerance for friction in our everyday lives. And what are relationships? They are friction makers. Right? Humans create friction. And so sitting on our couch and sending a text or sitting on our couch and scrolling instead of putting on our clothes, going out in the cold, having dinner with a friend where there might be some awkward conversation or they may some say something that disappoints us, that it is very easy to escape relationships in technology. But what it is doing it is, that is, it is making us feel lonely and like we matter less. And so all of these things, these ecosystems that no longer exist, tech, you know, selling us this idea that life should be frictionless. They really pulled us away from relationships that once delivered pretty regularly, this sense of mattering for us. So I do think it's a modern phenomenon and with the advent of the AI, I think it's only going to get worse if we don't stop. Name this need that all of us have and understand how to meet it for ourselves and for the people in our lives that we care about.

[Mike Carruthers]

Right? Yeah. Not only do we need to feel like we matter, but we need to remind other people they do too, because they may not feel like they matter.

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

Yes, exactly.

[Mike Carruthers]

Well, anybody listening, I think understands now the importance of mattering and probably always did, but we never talk about this and you know, I don't think we've ever had this conversation, this topic on the show before. And I appreciate you coming on and bringing it to the surface so we can understand it better. Jennifer Brahini Wallace has been my guest. The book is called the Secret to a Life of Deep Connection and Purpose. And there is a link to her book at Amazon in the show notes. It was great talking to you, Jennifer. Thanks.

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

Amazing. Thanks so much.

[Mike Carruthers]

So I'll admit something right up front here. I'm a dog person. I've had dogs most of my life. I've had cats too. I had one really cool cat when I was younger, but overall I've just never really gotten cats. They seem aloof and independent. They're not especially impressed by humans, and yet millions of people absolutely love them. In fact, cats are one of the most popular pets in the US with tens of millions, millions of households owning them. There are upwards of 90 million pet cats roaming around American homes. So I'm clearly missing something which raises a bigger question. Why do humans bond so strongly with an animal that doesn't seem to need us, at least not the way dogs do? Where did this relationship with cats come from? And why has it lasted for thousands of years? That's what we're digging into today with Jerry Moore. He's an archaeologist, writer, and professor emeritus of anthropology at California State University, Dominguez Hills, and he is author of a book called Cat A History. All right, Jerry, so help me understand cats here, starting with how they became pets in the first place.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, that's one of the most interesting and improbable events that I know of in my studies of archaeology. I mean, it's one of the least likely events, because on the one hand, what happens is that every continent, with the exception of Australia and Antarctica, has a small wild cat that you would think would be suitable for domestication. But in fact, all of our domesticated cats are derived from one species of cat that was found in North Africa and in the near east, and then not only domesticated, but then spread around the world and in many places with terrible consequences. But the process by which that transformation from absolutely wild animal to one that curled up at your feet is one of the most enigmatic events in human prehistory, because on the one hand, it takes place when humans start not only raising their own food, but more particularly raising grains and storing them to be used throughout the year, so you have large storage of harvests. But the ironic thing is that that sort of process occurs in different places around the world, including, for example, in ancient Mexico and Guatemala, Mesoamerica or the Andes. And in those places, also, there are wild cats that you would think, well, maybe they would have been attracted to the pests that occupy storage bins of corn and things like that, but they weren't. Because there's this other bizarre thing that happens is that it's not just the fact that people are grazing grain, particularly wheat and barley in the near east, and then storing it. But at the same time, what we think of as the house mouse, Musculus, begins expanding out of the Himalayas, of all places, westward into the near east and the Middle east, and that animal goes into the storage bins, starts reproducing, and creates enough of a dietary basis to attract the wild cats in to eat those mice.

[Mike Carruthers]

Okay, so let me recap here. So Humans raise grain and store it, and basically mice find out about the grain and they like grain. So they show up and they start eating all the grain that's been stored. And there's enough mice that the cats show up and start eating the mice that are eating the grain. But do cats show up naturally or people who are raising the grain bring them in to help fight the mouse problem?

[Alex Honnold]

As far as we know, they come in naturally at first because they're scenting out or they're looking for this dense food supply. But very quickly, human beings not only begin to try to control the breeding of cats, which is a virtually impossible thing to do until you have modern veterinary medicine, but they are treating cats as pets. We can tell from very early on. We've got, for example, 10,000 year old burials on the island of Crete where a young man in his 20s is dead, has been buried, and he's buried next to his pet cat. And we know that the cat is a pet because it's got a necklace around it. It shows no evidence of trauma. So it's been kind of painlessly sacrificed to be with this young man. And so that's a pretty interesting transformation that takes place.

[Mike Carruthers]

But in addition to being pets, if I'm remembering this correctly, cats have also been deified. I mean, it seems like in ancient Egypt, cats were thought of spirit like or godlike creatures, right?

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And so, for example, in the New Kingdom of ancient Egypt, there was a goddess, Bubattas, who was a goddess of, of fertility and other sorts of things. And she was frequently envisioned as being a cat. And large numbers of real cats were mummified and offered in her honor and buried in massive cemeteries on the banks of the Nile. So massive, in fact, that some of those cemeteries were looted in the late 1800s. And the mummified animals that were there, cats and other animals were shipped to England to be used as organic fertilizer.

[Mike Carruthers]

But cats. So cats have been coming into people's homes for how long now?

[Alex Honnold]

Oh, I would put, you know, every time archaeologists say, oh, it only occurred at this time, there's going to be another site that's found that's slightly older, but I would say that somewhere in between, you know, 10 to 15,000 years ago in the near east, we certainly had interactions with cats.

[Mike Carruthers]

So the statistic I read is that There are about 90 million pet cats in the United States. Do you know how many cats in the United States there are that are nobody's pet? And I don't mean, you know, like bobcats, But I mean, what look like house cats but are just feral cats roaming around?

[Alex Honnold]

The estimates that for the United States. Feral cats in the United States, it's estimated between 50 to 70 million feral cats in the United States.

[Mike Carruthers]

What?

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah, yeah, it's an enormous number. And in other places in the world, for example, just last year New Zealand was in the news because they organized a nationwide hunting of feral cats because the feral cats are destroying any native wildlife in the area. Lizards and squirrels and things of that sort.

[Mike Carruthers]

And are the feral cats in the United States, are they naturally occurring or are they escaped runaway pet cats that somehow manage to adapt to. To the outside world?

[Alex Honnold]

Most of them are domesticated cats that get abandoned or have, you know, been allowed to roam and then their owners lost track of them. So that's mostly what it is. And I want to distinguish, when I'm talking about feral cats, I'm not talking about wild cat species like bobcats or mountain lions or things like that. When I talk about feral cats, I mean these kind of house cats gone wild.

[Mike Carruthers]

Wow. I had no idea there were that many because I assumed, wrongful assumption that those cats wouldn't be able to survive by themselves, that domesticated cats don't have the skills necessary to find food for themselves or whatever.

[Alex Honnold]

Now they do. They do. They are, you know, they have impacts on bird populations, rodent populations, which most of the time we approve of that, but no, they have those skills.

[Mike Carruthers]

So what is a bobcat? Because we have one in our neighborhood, maybe more than one, but we see it on our ring camera all the time walking across the driveway. And I wonder, like, what is that? What is a bobcat?

[Alex Honnold]

You know, I don't know very much about bobcats as such. I've seen them, I've seen them hiking in the Sierra Nevada, but they tend to be pretty isolated animals. They don't really pose any kind of threat to humans the way that a mountain lion or something like that might. But they, you know, so many of us, especially here in California, but also in places like Colorado and elsewhere, you know, we live in what we think of as suburbs or cities, but we're not that far away from either actual wild lands or kind of mixed strategy uses. So, for example, one of the places where we see a lot of not just bobcats, but mountain lions and animals like that are on the edges of large golf courses that are adjacent to mountain systems, whether it's in California or in Colorado, because those golf courses have water and they have grass that attract deer, that attract mountain lions.

[Mike Carruthers]

Has the domestication of cats at all changed their appearance. Does a cat today look just like a cat did in ancient Egypt?

[Alex Honnold]

The similarities are striking enough that you would have no problem recognizing them. But beginning in the late 19th century, early 20th century, cat fanciers here in the United States and in Europe began to selectively breed cats so that you would have different varieties of cats. Those differences, whether it's a Siamese or a Maine coon, are largely only visible in terms of fur and coloration. They're not really noticeable in terms of their skeletal remains. And so the basic form of the animals was not really selected for as much as their appearance was.

[Mike Carruthers]

So I'd like to get your take on this, since you've studied cats. A lot of us who are not. Not big cat people kind of don't get it, because cats are aloof and seemingly don't really care all that much about us except that we feed them. And yet the appeal of having cats goes back, as you've pointed out, centuries. And why is that? What's the appeal? Unlike, say, a dog who is always happy to see you, I think that.

[Alex Honnold]

Cats fall into this category of what we think of as charismatic species. And this is a term that comes out of wildlife biology for animals and in some cases, plants that seem to really attract human attention. And so these are the animals that show up on your advertising for World Wildlife Fund or for your local zoos and things like that. It turns out that they don't put tapeworms up there as their icons. They put up animals that are charismatic. And there's been a lot of research on this by advertisers and others. And we know what the top 20 charismatic species are. And of the top 10, I think it's four are different varieties of cats, lions, tigers, cheetahs, leopards, etc. As well as elephants and things like that. And what's really interesting is that when we go back and look at cave art that was made 15 to 20,000 years ago and painted on the walls of caves in Europe during the Paleolithic, like at Chauvet Cave, the animals that are depicted there are not just some random depiction of animals that ancient peoples ran into. They are the same charismatic species. They are cave lions, they are cave bears, they're mammoths, they're rhinoceri. And it's really interesting to see that kind of continuity between someone who's making cave art in the Upper Paleolithic and a modern designer who's saying, okay, who would be a good animal character for the next Disney cartoon? And they're likely to, say, choose the same charismatic animals.

[Mike Carruthers]

You know, I'd never really thought of it that way before, but you're. You're so right that, you know, they. Yeah, they don't put, like, really ugly. Yeah, they really ugly animals up. It's always the cute ones. And who can resist a kitten? I mean, what's cuter than that?

[Alex Honnold]

Right. And, you know, I've often toyed with the idea. I mean, what would a Disney film based on Tammy the Tapeworm look like?

[Mike Carruthers]

I don't know. And I'll never know because I wouldn't go see it, so neither would most people, so.

[Alex Honnold]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Mike Carruthers]

But this idea that you were speaking of earlier, that there are people buried with their cats, I don't get that. What? Because why?

[Alex Honnold]

Because of the affinity between people and their animals. This is something that you should realize that here in the United States, as well as elsewhere in Europe, for example, in the United Kingdom, we have explicit laws stating why animals and humans cannot be buried together. And in part, those laws exist in order to make sure that folks who love their cats and dogs don't get interred with them. So this is a cultural barrier that we've got. In fact, one of the reasons that people are attracted to having their cats cremated is so that they can have the cat with them after the animal has died, which they otherwise would not be able to do, given our state laws about cemeteries and burials.

[Mike Carruthers]

But if you are buried with your cat, that means you took your live cat and killed it in order to bury it.

[Alex Honnold]

Yeah. And with that, there's an implication generally that there is an afterlife that you are both going into and you don't want to go make that journey alone.

[Mike Carruthers]

Yeah, that's weird. I mean, that's hard to get your head around because it. Just. Because it seems so bizarre. But I didn't know there were laws that you couldn't be buried. Like, if you and your cat were killed in a car accident together, you couldn't bury the cat with the person.

[Alex Honnold]

That's correct. And I know that's true in California. And in fact, one of the interesting things here in Carson is we've got a human cemetery just down the street from our pet cemetery. And it's, you know, that's as close as someone can get to being buried near their cat.

[Mike Carruthers]

What's one thing or two things about cats that I probably don't know that would fascinate me or surprise me?

[Alex Honnold]

Well, the first thing is that cats actually are trying often to communicate with us. And this is something that I'd been living around cats for a long time, and I only learned this recently, that when a domesticated cat approaches you and its tail is up, that's a symbol signifying. Yeah, I want to interact with you. So the tail up is actually a symbol. That's one thing. The second thing I think that's really fascinating and kind of of unexpected about cats is just how smart and curious they are. That in and of itself is kind of a fascinating mystery, isn't it? I wouldn't say that about a goldfish, for example. I don't think there's a little, you know, complex mind that's paddling around in that fishbowl. And, you know, this is not something that I'm Jerry Moore just making up. I mean, we see this in different cultures, in different traditional cultures, and we see it throughout the Western tradition. I mean, there is a reason why in Alice in Wonderland, Lewis Carroll did not write about the Cheshire dog.

[Mike Carruthers]

Yeah, well, I mean, cats are. With a dog, it seems like what you see is what you get, that a dog is very much an open book, whereas cats seem so mysterious. And, you know, I've told this story before on a previous episode, but I used to have a cat, and our family moved overseas for a year and gave the cat to the neighbor. But of course, the cat didn't know that. And so it kept going back to our house, which was rented out to people who didn't want it. So eventually, the cat just ran away and we came back, and I think it was two years later, the cat just showed up, just came back home and went right to where its dish was like, well, where's dinner? But he's been gone for three years. And. And, like, where have you been? And it was very.

[Alex Honnold]

Right. No, they have remarkable spatial memories. And I think one of the things about that that's important is that it's not just remembering a place. They're also remembering an interaction that that cat had with you and your family in that particular place. And that's really remarkable, isn't it?

[Mike Carruthers]

Yeah, well, yeah. It didn't just come home and sit on the steps. It came and went where its bowl used to be and waited for something to eat. So it. It.

[Alex Honnold]

Right.

[Mike Carruthers]

It was remembering or something. It was remembering an experience of time for dinner.

[Alex Honnold]

Right, right.

[Mike Carruthers]

Well, I appreciate you explaining all this, because I think for a lot of us, the appeal of cats as a pet is a bit of a mystery, just because they seem so detached and aloof. But I understand it a little better Now I've been talking with Jerry Moore, who is an archaeologist and writer and he is author of a book called Cat A History. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Jerry, thanks. You know your cats.

[Alex Honnold]

Okay, thanks very much for your interest in this project.

[Mike Carruthers]

When you get sick, it's tempting to reach for a home run remedy. But do any of them actually work? Well, according to Consumer Reports and other recent medical reviews, some classic remedies really can help ease the symptoms even if they don't cure the illness. Honey, for example, has been shown to soothe coughs and sore throats. And in some studies, it performs nearly as well as over the counter cough medicines. Warm drinks, especially tea with honey, help lubricate the throat, promote saliva production and thin mucus, which can reduce irritation. And chicken soup really earns its reputation. It helps with hydration. It loosens congestion and may even reduce inflammation, making you feel better faster. Supplements like vitamin C and zinc mixed evidence there. Vitamin C might modestly shorten colds, and zinc taken early, may reduce the duration. At least it did in some studies. But the evidence is not uniform. Now, these remedies don't cure a cold, but they can make the experience more comfortable while your immune system does the rest of the work. And that is something you should know. You know, we try to cover a lot of interesting topics on this show. And today, for example, we talked about mattering and cats. If you know somebody who's feeling like maybe they don't matter or you have a cat lover in your life that might enjoy it, I hope you'll share this episode with them. I'm sure they'd appreciate it and it helps us grow our show. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know.

[Jennifer Brahini Wallace]

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