Podcast Summary: Something You Should Know

Episode: What Awe and Wonder Do to Your Brain & Why Your Attention Span Is Shrinking
Host: Mike Carruthers
Date: November 27, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores two timely and profound topics: the transformative power of awe and wonder on the human brain and well-being, and the troubling trend of shrinking attention spans in the digital era. Mike welcomes two renowned experts: Dr. Dacher Keltner, psychologist, author, and awe-researcher (UC Berkeley), and Dr. Gloria Mark, expert on attention and productivity (UC Irvine). Together, they demystify what awe is, its surprising everyday benefits, and how our attention spans are being eroded—and what, if anything, we can do about it.

The Science and Power of Awe with Dacher Keltner

Guest: Dacher Keltner, Professor of Psychology at UC Berkeley, author of Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life

What is Awe? (06:35–09:18)

• Definition: "Awe is an emotion. So it's this mental state that arises when we encounter vast mysteries that we don’t understand."
  — Dacher Keltner (06:35)

• Awe is triggered by experiences that are vast, either in size or significance, and mysterious—not easily explained by what we know.

• Examples include nature, powerful music, acts of moral beauty, or big ideas and spiritual insights.

Why Study Awe? (09:18–10:54)

• Awe, though fleeting, has been largely unstudied compared to other emotions.
• Keltner explains that positive emotions like awe, laughter, love, kindness, and compassion are foundational to human health and well-being.
• "There's almost nothing better for a human being … than to go out and find a little bit of awe."
  — Dacher Keltner (08:13)

The Eight Wonders of Awe (09:18–10:54)

• Based on cross-cultural research, awe is most commonly experienced through:
  • Moral beauty (kindness, courage)
  • Nature
  • Collective effervescence (group activities)
  • Visual design/art
  • Music
  • Big ideas
  • Spirituality
  • Life and death moments

Benefits of Experiencing Awe (10:54–13:11)

• Immediate Effects: Even brief doses of awe reduce stress, enhance well-being, and foster feelings of connectedness.
• Awe can lower inflammation, activate the vagus nerve, reduce blood pressure, slow heart rate, and nourish a sense of timelessness.
• "A brief dose of awe … makes you feel less stressed about your daily life. It gives you a greater sense of well being."
  — Dacher Keltner (11:15)

How Long Do Benefits Last? (13:11–15:09)

• Some studies show benefits linger for at least a week—veterans and teens reported reduced PTSD and stress after awe-inspiring experiences.
• Longer-term changes are possible: Music festival attendees report increased altruism a year later.
• "There's this interesting possibility that the benefits of awe actually last years."
  — Dacher Keltner (13:23)

Can Awe Be Planned or Repeated? (18:34–22:04)

• Awe often comes as surprise, but Keltner’s research shows it can be cultivated through openness and seeking new perspectives (i.e., "awe walks").
• The experience tends to deepen with repeated exposure to the same source if approached mindfully.
• "With the right mindset, you can feel more intense awe with the same thing over time."
  — Dacher Keltner (19:26)

Misconceptions & Accessibility of Awe (22:04–23:52)

• Awe isn’t as rare as people believe; studies show people experience awe 2-3 times a week.
• "There is a lot of awe around us. ... It’s all around us to enjoy."
  — Dacher Keltner (22:21)

Cultivating Awe Even in Difficult Times (24:11–29:09)

• Grief, depression, or life's hardships can dull the sense of awe, but intentional practices (nature, music, spiritual inquiry) can help restore it.
• "When we’re unawable, it’s a sign that we really need to change our lives."
  — Dacher Keltner (24:11)
• Awe fosters connection, creativity, sharing, and meaning—"the most human emotion."

Practical Tips: Finding Awe in Daily Life (25:55–27:02)

• Try “awe walks” with intentional openness, noticing beauty, or observing others’ experiences of awe, which can itself be awe-inspiring.

Memorable Moments & Quotes

• Mike's story about a viral video of a little girl seeing clearly for the first time: "The look on her face was awesome." (27:18)
• Dacher’s reaction: "These simple things are ... how awesome it is." (27:59)
• Key Takeaway: "This is an emotion that brings out our best in the hardest of times."
  — Dacher Keltner (28:29)

Why Your Attention Span is Shrinking with Gloria Mark

Guest: Gloria Mark, Professor at UC Irvine, author of Attention Span: A Groundbreaking Way to Restore Balance, Happiness and Productivity

Evidence That Attention Is Shrinking (33:24–34:17)

• In 2004, average time spent on a single screen: ~2.5 minutes.
• By 2012: ~75 seconds.
• Most recent years: ~47 seconds.
• Corroborated by multiple independent studies.

Why Is Attention Declining? (34:17–35:31)

• External interruptions: Notifications from email, social media, etc.
• Self-interruption: "We are just as likely to self interrupt as ... to be interrupted by something external."
  — Gloria Mark (34:23)
• Emotional/social urges contribute as much as technology.

Is Shorter Attention a Problem? (36:52–38:13)

• Yes; more switching leads to increased stress, errors, and lower productivity.
• "There’s a physiological marker that indicates people are stressed ... people make more errors when they switch their attention."
  — Gloria Mark (37:01)

Why Do We Self-Interrupt? (38:28–39:03)

• People are bored, the task is too hard, they have an impulse or curiosity, or just want a break.

Can People Still Focus Deeply? (39:18–40:02)

• Sometimes, but half of all observed attention spans are under 40 seconds; focus varies by individual circumstances.

Are We Conditioning Ourselves to Be Distracted? (40:19–41:15)

• Data suggests yes. "When the external interruptions decreased, ... internal interruptions began to increase. ... People are conditioned to interrupt themselves."
  — Gloria Mark (40:19)

Productivity Costs of Attention Switching (41:28–42:37)

• Reorienting after a switch (“switch cost”) is time lost throughout the day.

Distraction as Recovery (43:04–44:49)

• Strategic, simple activities (solitaire, easy games) can actually help replenish mental resources if used intentionally.
• "We can’t hold sustained focus for a long time ... so it’s important to step back and take a break and replenish."
  — Gloria Mark (43:46)

People Know They’re Distracted – But Don’t Change (45:08–46:33)

• Most people are self-aware about their distractibility but internal urges (not just notifications) are powerful drivers.
• “Turning off notifications doesn’t solve the problem ... we are just as likely to self interrupt.”
  — Gloria Mark (46:02)

Can We Change? Techniques to Resist the Urge (46:44–49:18)

• Inspired by Albert Bandura’s self-efficacy research:
  • Meta-awareness: Noticing and understanding urges to interrupt oneself as they happen.
  • Forethought: Considering how present actions (e.g., reading news) will affect your future life or productivity.

Practical Tips (49:39–52:46)

• Do “nagging” activities (like checking email or bank balances) at the start of the day to clear your mind and reduce self-interruptions.
• People have focus “rhythms” (typically late morning and mid-afternoon); use high-focus times for important work.
• Try checking your email only at the start and end of the day as an experiment—many urgent problems resolve themselves.

Being More Intentional (52:46–53:28)

• Mike: "Maybe being a little more intentional about what you’re doing can help you stop wasting time and instead focus better on what needs to be done."

Memorable Quote

• "Even brief doses of awe...makes you feel less stressed about your daily life." – Dacher Keltner (11:15)
• "We are just as likely to self interrupt as ... to be interrupted by something external." – Gloria Mark (34:23)

Bonus: Fascinating “Intel” Section

• Color & Taste Perception: (53:34–54:47)
  • Food served on a red plate tastes sweeter due to color association.
  • Blue plates can make food taste saltier.

Key Takeaways

• Awe is a powerful, accessible emotion with measurable psychological and physiological benefits. It is not as rare as people think, and it can be cultivated through openness and intentional practice.
• Attention spans on digital screens have dramatically shrunk, mostly due to both external and internal factors.
• While this trend contributes to stress and lost productivity, becoming more aware and intentional can help reclaim focus and improve well-being.

Timestamps of Important Segments

| Time | Topic | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 06:35 | Dacher Keltner: What is Awe? | | 09:18 | The Eight Wonders—Common Sources of Awe | | 11:15 | Health and Well-being Benefits of Awe | | 13:23 | How Long Do Awe’s Benefits Last? | | 19:26 | Can the Same Thing Inspire Awe Repeatedly? | | 22:21 | Awe Frequency: Research Insights | | 24:11 | How Depression & Hardship Affect Awe; Importance of Cultivation | | 34:17 | Gloria Mark: Why Is Attention Shrinking? | | 37:01 | Switching Attention Increases Stress | | 40:19 | Conditioning Ourselves to Be Distracted | | 43:04 | Is Distraction Always Bad? The Role of Simple, Engaging Breaks | | 46:44 | Meta-awareness & Forethought: Strategies to Curb Self-Interruption | | 49:39 | Timing Routine Tasks for Productivity | | 53:34 | Color’s Subtle Influence on Taste |

For more, see Dacher Keltner’s book “Awe” and Gloria Mark’s “Attention Span.”

Summary prepared with attention to flow, attribution, and the engaging conversational tone of the episode’s experts.