Podcast Summary: "What Makes a Hit Song & Why You Never See the Same Rainbow Twice"

Podcast: Something You Should Know
Host: Mike Carruthers
Guests: Chris Dalla Riva (music analyst, author), Eddie Wu (math educator, author)
Release Date: December 22, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores two fascinating themes:

• The Science and Business of Hit Songs: How technology, trends, and business strategy shape what becomes a chart-topping hit, with insights from music analyst and author Chris Dalla Riva.
• Mathematical Marvels in Everyday Life: Math teacher Eddie Wu explains how phenomena like rainbows, sunflower seeds, and even left-handedness reveal deep mathematical patterns in nature and society.

Segment 1: Can You Catch Up on Lost Sleep? ([03:22])

• Key Insight: Dr. Janet Kennedy debunks the myth of "catching up" on sleep on weekends.
• Routine over Quantity: You can't truly make up for chronic sleep deprivation by sleeping in; it's about keeping a regular sleep routine, even on weekends.
• Mike Carruthers:

  "If you are chronically sleep deprived, you will never make up all the hours of sleep you've missed. And you really shouldn't try...it's about your routine." [03:38]

Segment 2: What Makes a Hit Song? (with Chris Dalla Riva) ([05:59])

The Power of Themes in Popular Music ([06:01])

• Dominance of Love and Heartbreak: These remain the most prevalent topics in popular music, but other themes surge with cultural context (e.g., “Teenage Tragedy Songs” in the late 1950s/early 1960s).
• Chris Dalla Riva:

  "There wasn't really the idea of your teenage years being a distinct period of your life... culture begins to emerge around them. And then ultimately, music companies, movie executives decide to market things to those teenagers." [07:47]

The Business Side and Trends ([09:37])

• "Hit songs" often ride the coattails of trends rather than pure talent; sometimes luck and zeitgeist decide what’s atop the charts.

• Example: “The Twist” was popularized as much by timing and cultural trends as by talent.

• Quote:

  "You have to have some degree of talent to get to the top of the charts. But it is not always the most talented that make it there." - Chris Dalla Riva [10:45]

One Hit Wonders and Lasting Success ([11:52])

• Having even one hit is incredibly rare; legends require “a combination of skill and luck that almost no one is blessed with.”

• Being labeled a "one hit wonder" shouldn't be a pejorative—it means beating almost impossible odds.

• Quote:

  "Honestly, they were lucky enough to have one hit, which is more than 99.9% of musicians can say." - Chris Dalla Riva [12:07]

Songs That Changed Music History ([13:04])

• The Beatles’ "I Want to Hold Your Hand": Launched the British Invasion and made it essential for artists to write and perform their own songs.

• George McCrae's “Rock Your Baby”: Sometimes cited as the first disco song, showing how genres (and who the "star" is—DJ vs singer) can shift dramatically.

• PM Dawn’s “Set Adrift on Memory Bliss”: First #1 under Billboard's SoundScan, ushering in more accurate data, boosting underrepresented genres like hip hop, alternative rock, and country.

• Quote:

  "Suddenly there was more alternative rock, hip hop and country on the charts... and PM Dawn was a hip hop duo and hip hop became the dominant art form over the next couple of decades." - Chris Dalla Riva [14:55]

How Technology Changed the Music Business ([19:56])

• Production and distribution used to require big label backing; today, anyone can record and distribute music globally for $20/year.
• Labels now often swoop in to boost artists who've already built an online following, instead of starting from scratch.
• Quote:

  "There are no gatekeepers to getting your music out there, to getting heard... But you can get your music out there, you can get it heard, and you can build a legitimate career without going through a label." - Chris Dalla Riva [20:35]

Streaming, Shorter Songs, and Shrinking Titles ([22:46])

• Streaming changed songwriting: artists have incentive to create shorter songs (“paid after a 30-second stream”).
• Song titles have also shrunk, so they fit on mobile screens.
• Quote:

  "If your song title is too long, it's going to get cut off on the phone display. It seems artists want people to be able to see the entire title..." - Chris Dalla Riva [23:10]

Why Classic Hits Dominate Modern Commercials ([24:27])

• Huge investment in classic song catalogs pushes investors to monetize through sync deals (commercials, movies, etc).
• Many biopics and media projects are a result of these IP rights being purchased.
• Quote:

  "If you want to turn a profit... you need to make people aware of these songs and you need to generate income streams for these songs. One way to do that is to get these songs synced in commercials." - Chris Dalla Riva [25:19]

Is Hit Songwriting Still a Path to Wealth? ([26:41])

• For most, a music career isn’t lucrative—immense earnings are concentrated among a lucky few.

• Writing one evergreen hit (e.g., “Walking on Sunshine”) can, however, provide lifelong royalties.

• Quote:

  "If you're lucky enough to have one big hit, you are set for life. But that's... very, very hard to do." - Chris Dalla Riva [27:28]

Segment 3: Math Explains the World (with Eddie Wu) ([31:22])

The Full Circle of Rainbows ([31:35])

• Rainbows appear as half-circles from the ground, but are in fact full circles—only the horizon blocks the bottom half from view.
• The rainbow’s circular appearance is due to how light refracts and reflects inside countless spherical raindrops.
• Quote:

  "All those raindrops are going to be in the shape of a cone. Now, if you look at a cone from the top... you actually see the cross-section of a cone, which is a circle. And that circle is the shape of the rainbow that you and I see." - Eddie Wu [32:33]

The Law of Cooling & Predictable Patterns ([34:06])

• Heat "wants" to diffuse equally; mathematical models (like exponential decay) let us predict things like cooling coffee or estimating time of death in forensic science.
• Quote:

  "To me, this very predictable mathematical model... is a mathematical idea that we can use to, again, interpret and understand the world around us." - Eddie Wu [34:44]

The Birthday Paradox ([36:33])

• With just 23 people in a room, there’s about a 50% chance two share a birthday—due to the rapidly increasing number of possible pairs.
• Quote:

  "That seems extremely surprising, but the mathematics bears it out." - Eddie Wu [36:53]

Sunflower Spirals and the Golden Ratio ([40:03])

• The seeds of a sunflower follow a geometric pattern tied to the golden ratio (approximately 1.618), maximizing efficient packing and exposure to sunlight.
• Quote:

  "They are not arranged randomly... they are arranged in a beautiful geometric pattern that actually relates to the golden ratio." - Eddie Wu [40:14]

Randomness Gives Rise to Order ([42:12])

• Even random processes, like flipping coins, produce predictable patterns (e.g. seeing long streaks in random coin flips).
• Concepts like the “hot hand” or “gambler’s fallacy” are common misinterpretations of statistical randomness.
• Quote:

  "Randomness cannot help but give rise to appearance of order." - Eddie Wu [42:35]

Why Are Some People Left-Handed? ([45:01])

• Left-handedness persists (about 10% of people) because its rarity makes it an advantage (in sports, combat, etc.), but if it were more common, that advantage would fade.
• Balance is maintained—a mathematical equilibrium.
• Quote:

  "The reason why left handedness exists is because by virtue of its infrequency... it actually infers a certain advantage onto the people who have that property." - Eddie Wu [45:44]

The Geometry of Snowflakes ([48:26])

• The hexagonal symmetry of snowflakes arises from how water molecules bond, creating a repeating geometric pattern at the molecular level.

Segment 4: The Skills that Predict Professional Success ([50:11])

• Of 12 essential workplace skills (self-restraint, emotion control, planning, observation, etc.), most people excel at only a few.
• Focus your job around your top skills—playing to strengths leads to higher satisfaction and success.
• Mike Carruthers:

  "The majority of people said their job did not play to their strengths." [51:14]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On chart-toppers:
  “It is certainly not predicated completely on talent.” – Chris Dalla Riva [10:52]
• On rainbows:
  “We would both look up and see a rainbow in the sky. But we'd both be seeing different rainbows because you see a different set of raindrops to me.” – Eddie Wu [33:33]
• On mathematical intuition:
  “Mathematics can help us to actually use clear logic and deduction to see what's really true.” – Eddie Wu [37:20]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:22] – Debunking the myth of catching up on sleep
• [05:59] – Chris Dalla Riva on what makes a hit song
• [13:04] – Songs that shaped music history
• [19:56] – How technology has changed music distribution
• [22:46] – Streaming era: Shorter songs and shorter titles
• [24:27] – Why oldies dominate ads and biopics
• [26:41] – The economics of songwriting and hit songs
• [31:22] – The full circle of rainbows explained by Eddie Wu
• [36:33] – Birthday paradox: probability and patterns
• [40:03] – The math behind sunflower spirals
• [45:01] – Mathematical reasoning for left-handedness
• [48:26] – Why snowflakes are hexagonal
• [50:11] – The 12 essential workplace skills

Conclusion

This episode reveals the often unexpected science behind everyday subjects—from why certain songs dominate the charts, to how technology shapes art, to the mathematics underlying natural wonders. Mike Carruthers’ in-depth interviews with Chris Dalla Riva and Eddie Wu provide listeners with actionable insights, fascinating history, and eye-opening perspectives on the invisible patterns that govern both music and the natural world.