Why People Do or Don’t Like You & The Power of Asking for Help

Summary

Podcast Summary: Why People Do or Don’t Like You & The Power of Asking for Help

Podcast: Something You Should Know
Host: Mike Carruthers
Guests: Nicholas Boothman, Wayne Baker
Date: December 29, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Something You Should Know revolves around two interlinked themes: the science and psychology behind likability, and the incredible power—and unexpected difficulty—of asking for help. Host Mike Carruthers talks to Nicholas Boothman about what makes someone instantly likable and how anyone can learn these skills. Later, he speaks with Wayne Baker, an expert on organizational behavior, about why we struggle to ask for help and how doing so can transform both personal and professional lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Makes People Like (or Dislike) You

Guest: Nicholas Boothman, Author of How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less

First Impressions Happen Fast

• Humans decide within the first two seconds whether they like someone ([05:42]).
  • “The truth is that we decide how we feel about someone in the first two seconds of seeing them or hearing them. If it's on the phone, it's just part of the fight or flight response.” – Nicholas Boothman ([05:42])
• Much of this is subconscious and based on survival instincts—fight, flight, mate, or ignore.

Mixed Messages Are Problematic

• We trust people whose visual (body language), vocal (tone), and verbal (words) signals match.
  • Mixed signals, such as smiling while angry, make people uncomfortable ([06:46]).
  • “What does freak us out are mixed messages. When your voice, tone, words and body language are all saying the same thing, we tend to trust you.” – Nicholas Boothman ([06:46])

The Power of Body Language

• Eye contact, smiling, and open body language build rapport instantly. These cues universally signal approachability and confidence.
• Symmetry in facial features also makes people naturally more attractive and approachable ([07:50]–[08:47]).

Attitude is Everything

• Attitude—the “energy” you project—is the most critical factor for likability and success, as it drives not only your behavior, but how others react to you ([11:04]).
  • “It's your attitude more than anything else that determines your success or failure. Your attitude not only drives your behavior, it drives other people's behavior.” – Nicholas Boothman ([11:04])
• You’re a “genius until you open your mouth”—words must match your attitude.

Common Ground and Conversation Starters

• People like those who are like themselves—finding small points of common ground accelerates rapport ([12:06]).
  • “As soon as you find common ground, you've cracked it. You've made a great first impression.” – Nicholas Boothman ([12:11])
• Use statements followed by open-ended questions to spark real conversation.
  • Example: “I hear New York’s a fantastic place. If I only had half a day, what should I see?” ([13:19])

Building Confidence & Overcoming Fear

• Confidence isn’t innate; it’s learned. Most fears surrounding social interaction are acquired, not inborn ([19:45]).
  • “We had to learn to have no confidence. We were all born with just two fears…the rest are learned.” – Nicholas Boothman ([19:45])
• Confident people are comfortable with rejection and failure.
• “There’s no such thing as failure. There’s only feedback...there’s no such thing as rejection, only selection.” ([19:45])

Practical Tips for Instant Likability

• Prepare your attitude: be welcoming, curious, enthusiastic, or warm.
• Make eye contact (notice their eye color), smile, and open your body language (expose your heart, uncross arms).
• Start with simple, situational comments (“I had an awful time parking today. What about you?”).

The Magic of ‘Talking in Color’

• Make your words vivid and multisensory; use metaphors and stories (“I tap dance to work” – Warren Buffett).
• “Stories are to the human mind what food and fresh air are to the body. We just crave stories.” – Nicholas Boothman ([24:22])

Break Out of Your Comfort Zone

• Challenge yourself to say “hello” to three strangers today and aim for three rejections—that’s how you grow confidence ([26:18]).

On the Importance of Talking to Strangers

• Avoiding strangers limits all life’s opportunities ([27:25]).
  • “Talking to strangers isn’t just the right thing to do. It’s a matter of survival.” – Nicholas Boothman ([27:25])
• Replace “don’t talk to strangers” with advice about which strangers to approach in need.

Memorable Quotes – Likability Segment

• “When people like you, they tend to see the best in you and what you represent. When we don’t like them, the opposite is true.” – Nicholas Boothman ([09:19])
• “You’re a genius until you open your mouth.” – Nicholas Boothman ([11:04])
• “Make it your goal to get rejected three times. Everything you do in life... you’re going to need a stranger’s help to do that.” – Nicholas Boothman ([26:18])

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The Power of Asking for Help

Guest: Wayne Baker, Professor, University of Michigan; Author of All You Have to Do Is Ask

Why Asking for Help Matters

• Asking for help boosts productivity, creativity, and overall performance—individually and organizationally ([31:12]).
  • “The research is very clear that that’s what leads to superior performance for an Individual, for a team, or even for an organization.” – Wayne Baker ([31:12])

Barriers to Asking

• Main reason: fear of seeming incompetent, weak, or needy ([31:59]).
• In reality, research shows that thoughtful requests actually increase perceptions of competence ([31:59]).
• The real barrier to generosity isn’t unwillingness to help—it’s that people don’t ask ([32:46]).

People Are More Willing to Help Than You Think

• Study: Asking strangers for help (e.g., borrowing a cell phone) is often successful within the first or second request ([33:34]).
  • “Most people do want to help as long as you ask.” – Wayne Baker ([33:34])
• Being asked for help also flatters the helper ([34:48]).

How to Ask: The ‘SMART’ Request Method

• S: Specific – Make your request concrete to trigger helpful memories/connections.
• M: Meaningful – Explain why—how it helps you, your boss, your goals ([35:09]).
• A: Action – Ask for something actionable.
• R: Strategically Realistic – Request within the realms of possibility (“stretch” requests are fine).
• T: Time/deadline – Include a specific deadline.

Finding Balance: Don’t Be a ‘Sponge’ or a ‘Lone Wolf’

• Four types: ‘giver requester’ (ideal), ‘lone wolf’ (neither gives nor asks), ‘overly generous giver’ (gives, doesn’t ask—risk burnout), ‘selfish taker’ (asks but never gives) ([37:19]).
• “The most effective people are in the giver requester category.” – Wayne Baker ([37:19])

Who to Ask? Think Broadly

• Don’t limit yourself to your immediate circle—try the “two-step” approach (ask someone who knows someone).
• Dormant connections (people you haven’t spoken to in years) are surprisingly willing, and often have new, different resources ([39:24]).

Handling Rejection

• A ‘no’ is often just information—it’s not personal ([44:50]).
  • “Sometimes the explanation for the no is something you didn’t expect at all. So think of a no as information that you can use to refine a request to make a more effective one later on.” – Wayne Baker ([44:50])
• Most fears of rejection are overblown; actual refusals are rare.

Why Don’t We Learn to Ask?

• Educational systems foster individual achievement, discouraging asking for help, which later becomes a barrier in adult life ([42:40]).

What Kind of Help Can You Ask For?

• Advice, connections, resources, social support, financial backing, sponsorships, mentorships, etc.—identify your real need ([43:45]).

Memorable Quotes – Asking for Help Segment

• “People will think you are more competent, not less, as long as you make a thoughtful request.” – Wayne Baker ([31:59])
• “It’s the ask that’s the catalyst or the driver of the whole giving, receiving process.” – Wayne Baker ([32:46])
• “Most of your dormant connections are delighted to hear from you again and they are delighted that you’re reactivating the connection...what they know and who they know is really quite different from you.” – Wayne Baker ([39:24])
• “Work is a team sport. The only way you’re going to be effective is to overcome the reluctance to ask for what you need.” – Wayne Baker ([42:40])

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “The truth is that we decide how we feel about someone in the first two seconds of seeing them or hearing them.”
  — Nicholas Boothman, [05:42]

• “When your voice, tone, words and body language are all saying the same thing, we tend to trust you.”
  — Nicholas Boothman, [06:46]

• “It’s your attitude more than anything else that determines your success or failure.”
  — Nicholas Boothman, [11:04]

• “As soon as you find common ground, you’ve cracked it.”
  — Nicholas Boothman, [12:11]

• “If you don’t speak up, you’re invisible. And that’s what makes all the difference.”
  — Nicholas Boothman, [18:07]

• “Stories are to the human mind what food and fresh air are to the body.”
  — Nicholas Boothman, [24:22]

• “The research is very clear that that’s what leads to superior performance for an Individual, for a team, or even for an organization.”
  — Wayne Baker, [31:12]

• “Most people do want to help as long as you ask.”
  — Wayne Baker, [33:34]

• “The most effective people are in the giver requester category.”
  — Wayne Baker, [37:19]

• “A ‘no’ is information you can use to refine your request to make a more effective one later on.”
  — Wayne Baker, [44:50]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [05:20] - Nicholas Boothman joins for the likability interview
• [05:42] - Instant impressions and how they work
• [06:46] - Why mixed messages create distrust
• [08:47] - The mechanics of communicating likability
• [11:04] - The function of attitude in first impressions
• [12:11] - The critical role of finding common ground
• [13:19] - Conversation starters and practical steps
• [18:07] - Confidence is learned; the significance of speaking up
• [19:45] - Overcoming fear and the myth of innate shyness
• [21:55] - Nonverbal cues and adjusting your attitude
• [24:22] - The importance of sensory-rich storytelling
• [27:25] - Why talking to strangers is vital for success
• [30:55] - Wayne Baker joins for the help-seeking discussion
• [31:12] - Asking for help leads to better outcomes
• [31:59] - Why people resist asking
• [33:34] - Study: How willing people really are to help
• [35:09] - The 'SMART' method for help requests
• [37:19] - The four “helping” archetypes
• [39:24] - Who to ask, and how dormant connections help
• [44:50] - Rejection, and how to make it useful

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Summary & Takeaways

• Likability is not luck—it’s a practical skill. First impressions form in seconds, but you can shape them with attitude, body language, and meaningful conversation.
• Confidence is built, not inherent. Practice is key; aim to get comfortable with small risks and even small failures.
• Asking for help isn’t just okay—it’s often necessary. Most people want to help; prepare and make your asks specific and meaningful.
• Balance between giving and requesting is essential. Avoid being a martyr or a ‘sponge’; embrace being a ‘giver requester.’
• Nurture and reactivate forgotten relationships. Your ‘dormant connections’ can be invaluable.
• Don’t fear rejection—it’s often just information. Use it to refine your requests and interactions going forward.

The episode demonstrates that both likability and seeking help are not about personality or luck, but about systems and small courageous actions that anyone can learn and master.

Transcript

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[Mike Carruthers]

Today on something you should know what is it that makes someone a good dancer then? The science of getting people to like you and why it matters when people.

[Nicholas Boothman]

Like you, they tend to see the best in you and what you represent. When we don't like them, the opposite is true. If the guy's jumping all over the place and I like him, he's enthusiastic. If I don't like him, he's an idiot. It's all the same body language, really.

[Mike Carruthers]

Also, what vitamin C is really good good for. And it's not to fight a cold. And a lot of us are afraid to ask for help when we need it. And that's a big mistake.

[Wayne Baker]

I'll always have someone take me aside and say, you know, I'm not going to ask for what I really need because I know no one here can help me. And my answer is always the same, which is that you never know what people know or who they know until you ask. And so it's important to realize is that most people in fact will help.

[Mike Carruthers]

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[Nicholas Boothman]

Thank you. Good morning. Nice to talk to you.

[Mike Carruthers]

So it's interesting. When I think about when I meet someone for the first time, there is that immediate judgment, that immediate sense of whether I like that person or not. Right. That's what humans do. We make that instant judgment to some extent. Right.

[Nicholas Boothman]

The truth is that we decide how we feel about someone in the first two seconds of seeing them or hearing them. If it's on the phone, it's just part of the fight or flight response. So you can't really blame people for doing it. I mean, you can't stop them jumping to conclusions about you. But there's a lot you can do to adjust how they feel about you.

[Mike Carruthers]

And that idea that people like or don't like you within the first few seconds. So what's going on there? What makes that determination?

[Nicholas Boothman]

Actually, the fight or flight response is four things. In mammals, we're actually deciding, do I eat it, do I mate with it, do I fight it, or do I run for it? I mean, those are basically what we're deciding. And we just pick up signals from other people that tell us how we feel about them.

[Mike Carruthers]

But there are people that, you know, they don't make us necessarily want to run away. But there's, you know, there's something about them. They're not quite my kind of guy. You know what I mean? But it's not like they're. I want to run away from them.

[Nicholas Boothman]

No, absolutely. What does freak us out are mixed messages. Basically, we respond to the visual, the vocal and the verbal. In other words, when your voice, tone, your words and your body language are all saying the same thing, we tend to trust you. I mean, that's what actors do. They're very good at that. But if they're not saying the same thing, if someone's smiling whilst they're angry at you or looking. I mean, I have people all the time when I do my talks come up to me. And I had a woman recently came up and said, you know, I have this problem. My kids are always saying, mom, why are you so angry all the time? And she says, I'm not angry. I'm excited. So will you look angry? And that was simply because, you know, her body language and her words and her voice weren't all saying the same thing. That's what we. That's what freaks us out. You know those people that smile at you when they're angry at you.

[Mike Carruthers]

And so what is it? Because we all know those people that everybody is attracted to. They walk into a room and pretty soon everybody's around that. What is that?

[Nicholas Boothman]

You know, first of all, I do get asked that a lot. And that's not exactly what really happens. Sure, there are some people that walk into a room that attracts people's attention, but they're not suddenly all around them. But there are people they feel comfortable with. Their body language is giving off. Basically, it's what I talk about doing in the first two or three seconds of seeing someone look them in the eye, smile, open your body language, and synchronize with the people around you. And then look for common ground when you see certain people and you tend to be attracted to them. Look, I was. I was a fashion photographer for 25 years. I had studios on three continents. And I mean, I know. I know why people are attracted to models. It's things like that their faces are symmetrical. That's a huge. A huge attraction when someone is symmetrical. When they do eye contact, look, it's simple. A smile says, I'm happy and I'm confident. Eye contact says, trust is in the air. These are quite simple things.

[Mike Carruthers]

So when you want to make someone like you, I mean, it almost sounds phony. It's like, do I really want to make someone like me? If they don't like me, they don't like me.

[Nicholas Boothman]

If cooperation is what you want, then there are certain things you can do which I just mentioned. Then look them in the eye, smile, open your body language, and they will start to feel trusting towards you. And it happens in the first couple of seconds.

[Mike Carruthers]

But if it doesn't happen in the first couple of seconds, have you lost the opportunity or not?

[Nicholas Boothman]

It's difficult. It's difficult. We do. Look, here's the bottom line. When people like you, they tend to see the best in you and what you represent. And we tend to look for opportunities to say yes to people that we like. When we don't like them, the opposite is true. We tend to see the worst in them or get out of here. Now, you know your subconscious is saying, back away. And we sometimes see the worst. If I like. If the guy's jumping all over the place and I like him, he's enthusiastic. If I don't like him, he's an idiot. You know, if I like the woman, she's warm and she's. She's. She's, you know, she's approachable. If I don't like her, she's dull and boring. Just by this. It's all the same body language, really. And so it does matter, because when we like people, you know, they tend to see the best of us. In us. And that's really what it's all about. And not only in us, but in what we represent. I know that your people who haven't heard your program and tune into it in the first couple of seconds, they're either saying, yeah, I like this, I like this guy, or they're saying, what else is on? It's just. Well, I say that with the graces of respect. Obviously you have the voice I wish I had. You have a super charismatic voice and et cetera, which is what you should well have after 20 years.

[Mike Carruthers]

What about, though? Because you say it happens in the first few seconds when you open up the body language and everything, but it's also your personality, your attitude. I mean, what I've seen people that look very appealing and then you start to talk to them and go, oh my God, you know what? Yeah, so what is that talk about that?

[Nicholas Boothman]

Well, first of all, that's the good news and the bad news about face to face communication is you're a genius until you open your mouth. But the fact that you said the word there, the attitude, the first thing we respond to in somebody else. Well, in technical terms, it's the quality and the quantity of the energy they give off, but it's basically their attitude. It's your attitude more than anything else that determines your success or failure. Because your attitude not only drives your behavior, it drives other people's behavior. I mean, you know, if you came on the air now and you were angry, I would be responding in a defensive way or whatever, if you sounded angry, but you sound completely cool together. So, you know, it makes me respond in a certain way. And that's, you know, I have people all the time that say when people get to know me, they really like me. But, you know, that's great for your next door neighbor and your family and anybody else who can't escape you. But, you know, when it comes to work or to dating, it doesn't cut it.

[Mike Carruthers]

What about this idea that people like people who are like them?

[Nicholas Boothman]

Look, it's all about finding common ground. I mean, the whole, the bottom line in a first impression is the faster you can find common ground, the quicker you can just relax into it. And so we tend to like people who are like ourselves, who have the same taste in, I don't know, holidays, books, music, food. We like them, we get on with them. We can find, you know, in my talks, and I do audiences of up to 6,000 people quite regularly, and I'll get them on their feet and I'll just say, find common ground in 20 seconds with somebody. And, you know, they do it. They can, they, you know, they both, they both like the movie Titanic, they've got twins in the family, they both enjoy certain sports. As soon as that happens, soon as you find common ground, you've, you've, you've cracked it. You've made a great first impression.

[Mike Carruthers]

What's a good way to do that, though? When you, when you meet someone and you start talking to them, you can't say, well, let's find some common ground so we can continue this conversation. How do, how do you have that conversation so that the common ground reveals itself?

[Nicholas Boothman]

I did this, exactly this on Good Morning America a few years back when they said, okay, so I walk into a room full of strangers, give me five tips on what to do. And I said, well, number one, when you walk into a room, head for the middle of the room. Well, number one, wear great clothes. More people take you seriously. Don't have to wear spectacular clothes, but just dress for the occasion. Walk into the middle of the room. As you walk into the middle of the room, walk slightly more slowly. And then I told them about the three second rule. You know, you're probably at one of these events to meet people. So go up to people. And how do you get people talking? You do what you do. You do what podcasters do or talk show hosts do or journalists do. You ask an open question. You ask, you make a statement, followed by an open question. So on the Today show, she said, okay, well, what do you mean here? I say, okay, I hear New York's a fantastic place. If I only had half a day, what should I see? That's how you get me talking. You make a statement and you ask me an open question.

[Mike Carruthers]

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[Mike Carruthers]

So Nicholas, some people just seem to have that gift, it seems anyway that they can talk to strangers and make everybody feel comfortable. Do you think that's true or are they working at it? It just looks easy.

[Nicholas Boothman]

It just looks easy. I have five children. The total age of my kids now is actually 225. So I've got three of them in their 50s and a couple arriving in their 40s. And they were, they weren't all naturally able to go up to complete strangers and start a conversation, but they practiced and we had fun little things that we did when they were growing up that made one of my children in particular, who might have been other people might have used the label. I Absolutely abhor. Which is shy, attached shy to somebody. And she could have been that way. But today she runs corporations out of Norway and high tech corporations and networks all over the world. World. But only because we showed her how to do it and we encouraged her to do it. Look, the first thing I talk about to my audience is I ask them, a professor, Professor Harold from Stanford business school spent 20 years looking for what he called the success factor. He went across all areas of work and business and private life. And they came up that team with one thing which was they called the number one identifiable predictor of success. And you know what it was? It was the ability to speak up. If you don't speak up, you're invisible. And that's what makes all of the difference in these things.

[Mike Carruthers]

That is so interesting because, and you had said just a few moments ago, you go into the center of the room and talk to someone. Well, to a lot of people that's terrifying to just talk to someone.

[Nicholas Boothman]

Here's something else, but I mean, I'm slightly off on a tangent, but you know something? We had to learn to have no confidence. We were all born with just two fears. The fear of sudden loud noises and the fear of falling. All the rest of the things we get scared about in this life, we had to learn they're learned fears. And I deal a lot of the time now with, I'm dealing, working with our local police force and with human trafficking and helping in that area, doing what little bit I can to help. But you know, a lot of it comes down to not having confidence. Confidence is a huge topic right now. With digital distractions and political correctness and polarized politics, we've made strangers out of everybody and the result is an epidemic of anxiety and depression. But. And the lack of confidence. But you know, confidence is, they say, oh well, face your fears and do it anyway. Or you know, or fake it till you make it. This is to answer your question about going into a room and talking to people. But the simple thing about confidence is that people who are confident are comfortable with rejection and they're comfortable with failure. Just those two things. So I have some simple steps where anyone can get comfortable with rejection and anyone can get comfortable with failure. That's what makes people lack the confidence. And so to walk into a room and talk to people, you just need a couple of steps to explain to people that there's no such thing as failure. There's only feedback. The whole idea of failure is that we learn to get better. And the whole idea of there's no such thing as rejection. There's only selection. Thank God when I was 15 and used all my pocket money to go and have cha cha lessons so I could get the girl from the local hairdressing salon to fall in love with me. Thank God she rejected me or I wouldn't be where I am today, you know, so.

[Mike Carruthers]

So those invisible signals, those things that you send off that make people say to themselves, oh, this is a likable guy. Those are what?

[Nicholas Boothman]

Yeah, well, eye contact is huge. What I tell people is when you meet someone for the first time, look them in the eye, smile, open your body language, and find common ground. But first you have to adjust your attitude. And you have to adjust your attitude to what I call a really useful attitude instead of a really useless attitude. A really useful attitude could be welcoming, curious, enthusiastic, warm. Really useless attitudes are things like bored, rude, hostile, or appearing that way. A lot of people don't realize with their arms folded and looking at the ground when they're talking to you for the first time, that they just come across as hostile. So first you adjust your attitude, which is before you even approach somebody or even walk into a room. We all do it when we walk into a room. Well, we should. We adjust our attitude to something or other. You know, put a smile on your face and get on with it. And then eye contact. Just notice the color of the eyes of the people that you're talking to. That's enough eye contact to set. Put trust in the air. I did some work for one of the large automotive motive companies. Well, I've done all of them, but in one of them, when we got on this subject, they now have on their worksheet in their service department, customer's name, customer's address, customer's eye color just obliges the mechanic for a second to look into the eyes of the customer. That says trust is in the air. A smile, whether you have a natural smile or or not a smile says that person is happy and confident. Not everybody has a natural smile, and not all professional models have a natural smile. But there's a trick I learned from models when I was a photographer. They simply say. They'll say to themselves the word great in bursts of three in stupid voices, great, great, great, great, great, great, great. When they're on the set and eventually their eyes are warm and they look like they're smiling, you can say that to yourself as you approach somebody, open your body language just means, you know, don't have your arms folded across your chest. In other words, simply Kind of almost point your heart at the heart of the person. Not in any stupid way, but just expose your heart and then start saying something. And it's perfectly normal to make a comment about where you are. I had an awful time parking today. And what about you? Or isn't this a great place? Or I've never been here before. It's just making statements.

[Mike Carruthers]

What do you mean by talking in color?

[Nicholas Boothman]

Talking in color is three things, really. One of them is adding sensory information to whatever you're talking about. Talk about the way. If you're telling someone you went on holiday, talk about the way some of the things that you saw, some of the things that you heard, maybe the smells, the tastes involve all the senses. We're hungry. We're desperate. We're desperate for stories. Stories are to the human mind, what food and fresh air out of the body. We just crave stories. That's what your podcast is. It's a lot of stories. It's getting into people's imaginations. The other part about talking in color, the big part, is being able to condense things into simple images. And one of the best people at doing this in the States is Warren Buffett. He makes pictures to describe things. When he was asked how he felt about his job, he said, I tap dance to work. That's talking in color because people who have kind of visual can see it. People who are sound, auditory can hear it. And people who are feeling based, can feel it. Can feel what it feels like. When he was asked to explain the 2008 financial bust, he said, the tide's gone out and we can see he's been swimming naked. Really great communicators. Steve Jobs, all of. All those guys. You'll see, they use metaphors all the time. They say it's kind of like a. And that's talking in color. And it's very charismatic. Look for those. For those of your listeners old enough to remember Cassius Clay or Muhammad Ali, he said, I'm going to float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. This life is a bowl of cherries. This is absolute beautiful for the mind, for the minds of other people, for the imagination. Imagination is the strongest force we possess.

[Mike Carruthers]

It sure makes sense what you're saying, and yet it is so hard. It is hard for a lot of us to talk to people the way you're talking.

[Nicholas Boothman]

Just say hello to three people today that are strangers. Just say hi. Make it your goal to get rejected three times. Keep doing it if you want, until three times. Nobody responds to you. That's all just or just, you know, I work with kids. I was interviewing four kids in a cafe the other day. I walk up to them and they've never been taught to talk to strangers. They've been told not to talk to strangers. You don't talk to strangers, you got no life. Everything you do in life, you're going to be healthier, wealthier, smarter, wiser, richer. The only way you're going to do it is by you're going to need a stranger's help to do that. But this one girl said, well she said I mouth high people. I thought that's a great word. As she's walking by and she's only 14, she just goes with her mouth, you know, and look away again. And that's how they're learning to talk to strangers.

[Mike Carruthers]

Yeah, well, I've always thought about this whole don't talk to strangers thing that it's not necessarily such a great idea because as you say, if you don't talk to strangers and you don't learn how think of all the opportunities you're not getting.

[Nicholas Boothman]

Talking to strangers isn't just the right thing to do. It's a matter of survival. Everything we want in this life, be it tickets to the Rose bowl, to be on your show, to have a great career, whatever the perfect part, you're going to need a stranger's help to get it. So all those people, you know, they tell little children don't talk to strangers. So the kid gets lost in the mall and goes to hide somewhere. Much better to say if you get lost, go and talk to another mummy or go and talk to the lady, somebody behind the counter. You know, that's useful. It's about, you know, there's this stranger danger. This fear of strangers is unbelievable. Do you know what your chances of a kid being kidnapped by a complete stranger are? In the United States the latest available figures were from 2 2016. The chance of your child being kidnapped by a complete stranger is 1 in 675,000. And yet we tell them all, don't talk to strangers. I've interviewed and what have we got? Now we have one and a half generations of soft, narcissistic, decadent, over photographed under inspired kids because they're, and it's not their fault, it's the way they've been brought up and brainwashed.

[Mike Carruthers]

Well, I like your advice because it's simple, it's easy to follow and I think people have a sense that it's probably pretty effective. You just have to go out and try it. Nicholas Boothman has been my guest. The book is how to Make People like youe in 90 seconds or less and you will find a link to his book in the show notes. Thanks for being here Nicholas.

[Nicholas Boothman]

I'm really grateful. Thank you so much.

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[Mike Carruthers]

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[Wayne Baker]

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[Wayne Baker]

Hi Mike, I'm glad to be here.

[Mike Carruthers]

So this all sounds incredibly ridiculously simple. If you need help, you ask for help. Everybody knows that. So why is a university professor studying this and writing books about something that is so seemingly simple?

[Wayne Baker]

Yes, it sounds simple, but it's often hard for people to do. The reason that it's important for people to ask for what they need is they can be much more productive, efficient, creative, perform at a higher level. You think about it. One way to approach work is to put our heads down and just work at that task. But we could be far more effective if we reach out and ask for input, advice and resources from other people. The research is very clear that that's what leads to superior performance for an Individual, for a team, or even for an organization.

[Mike Carruthers]

And why don't we do that? It just seems like, well, if we have to ask for help, maybe that means we don't know what we're doing. We'll look weak, we'll look stupid. Or is there something beyond that?

[Wayne Baker]

There are a number of reasons. And the one you just mentioned is one of the main ones, is that often we don't ask because we are concerned that we might look foolish, needy, incompetent, weak, ignorant, don't know how to do our job. But what's interesting is that here the research is helpful. Research shows that as long as you make a thoughtful request, people will think you are more competent, not less. And there is an approach that I advocate for coming up with a thoughtful request. And when you follow that, I see that people make requests that are effective and get the resources that they need and actually increase perceptions of that person's competence.

[Mike Carruthers]

And when you look at the research, what is the big overarching benefit to asking for help?

[Wayne Baker]

Well, the main thing is that you can be much more effective and productive if you do it. And what we found over the years is that the main barrier to generosity is not that people are unwilling or unable to help, but that people don't ask. It's the ask that's the catalyst or the driver of the whole giving, receiving process. So another common barrier is that we don't ask because we figure no one can help us. And I've done many exercises and many sessions on this over the years, and I'll always have someone take me aside and say, you know, I'm not going to ask for what I really need because I know no one here can help me. And my answer is always the same, which is that you never know what people know or who they know until you ask. And so it's important to realize that most people, in fact, will help you if you ask.

[Mike Carruthers]

Is that true?

[Wayne Baker]

Fascinating study that was done by Frank Flynn and associates at Columbia University, where they asked study participants to go out into New York City and they had to approach a stranger and ask to borrow a cell phone. And all they could say was, can I borrow your cell phone to make a call? They couldn't give a sob story or explain or plead. And it's funny, Mike, that a lot of the people who signed up for it said, forget it. I'm not going to even participate in this experiment. Once they realized what they had to do and they were getting paid as well, but a number of people did, they went out and they were shocked to realize how easy it was to get a cell phone from a stranger in New York. You know, they thought maybe you'd have to ask 4, 5, 10 people before you got a phone. But what the research shows is that it's the first or second person that lends you their phone. And there are many other studies that support that finding. Getting people to fill out a questionnaire, make a donation can go on and on. Most people do want to help as long as you ask.

[Mike Carruthers]

When people ask me for help, I'm often flattered and willing to help. I mean, I like when people ask me to help. So I imagine other people do, too.

[Wayne Baker]

That's right. And that's what the research shows, is that people come to you for advice through acknowledging that you have advice that's worthy, you know, that they want to come to you because you're the expert or that you know, and they're acknowledging that when they make that request.

[Mike Carruthers]

So I imagine there is a right way to ask. There's a prescription for how to ask.

[Wayne Baker]

Well, the main prescription is to be prepared before you make a request. So you want to know, what's the goal? What are you trying to accomplish? And then once you have that in hand, say, well, what's the resource that you need? And you want to think very broadly. Maybe it's advice, information, referral, a connection, an opportunity, a brainstorming session, financial support. The list goes on and on. But think, okay, if I have that goal in mind, all right, what's a resource that I need? And then you want to formulate what I call a smart request. The smart request is a little bit different than smart goals. So the S is for specific. You want to ask for something very specific. The reason is that a specific request triggers people's memories of what they know and who they know. A general request won't do that. The most general request I ever heard was from an executive from the Netherlands who was engaging in one of my exercises, and he said, my request is for information. And that's all he said. And I said, well, you know, can you elaborate? And he said, no, it's confidential. I can't say anything more. You know. Well, he got no help whatsoever. But, you know, people often think that a general request is more effective. You're casting a wide net. But that's not true. You want to ask for something specific, the M. And this is very different than the M for smart goals, which is measurable. Measurability is nice, but here the M is meaningful. It's the why of the request, how is this going to enable you to do your job better or to help your boss meet his or her objectives? Or how is it aligned with the organization's goals and objectives? The A is for action. You ask for something to be done. The R is strategically realistic. I encourage people to make stretch requests, but it's got to be within the realm of possibility. And then the T is time or deadline. You have to have a deadline. And the more specific the deadline, the better.

[Mike Carruthers]

How much asking is enough or how much is too much? Because you don't want to be the guy where people are going, oh, you know, here comes Bob. He's going to be asking for more because. Because all you're doing is asking.

[Wayne Baker]

Yeah, it's a very good question. It is possible to ask too often, and it's possible to not ask often enough. So you want to be somewhere in that middle ground. And there's four types of people that I've seen, and we've done research to show that this is the case. The main position you want to be, the main role as an individual or a team or even organization, is what I call the giver requester. That's someone who is generous, who freely helps other people, who doesn't keep track of who helps whom. It's not about keeping score. And they make requests for when they need something. The opposite of the giver requester would be the lone wolf. The person who doesn't ask. The person who doesn't give is probably the most tragic role to have because you're just disconnected from the world. You're not. You're not giving, you're not helping, you're not asking for what you need. The most common category. There are four. The most common category is what I call the overly generous giver. And that's the person who is extremely generous but doesn't ask for what they need. And that leads to burnout in the extreme. It could lead to compromising one's resources or not taking care of oneself. And the remedy there is to. Sometimes you have to put boundaries around your generosity and balance it by asking when you have something that you need. And then the fourth type, which is the opposite of the overly generous giver, is the selfish taker. That's the person that you were thinking about before. They see that person coming and you say, okay, they're going to ask for something else. They're not going to help anyone. I have a friend of mine I described this to. He used to be a consultant. He said, oh, we call Those people, sponges, you know, they just suck in everything and they never give a thing back. So most people are in the overly generous category, but the most effective people are in the giver requester category.

[Mike Carruthers]

And I would imagine that you want to be careful not to look weak or whiny. You know, I don't know how to, I need some help, I don't know what to do. That doesn't play well.

[Wayne Baker]

Yes, absolutely. That's when I think back on that process of, you know, you need to communicate to the person and to do it at a time and a place and a method of communication that works for the person and say, look, here's what I'm trying to accomplish, here's the resource that I need. Think about those five smart criteria explaining why it's important, why it's meaningful when you need it by. That's much more like that's a strong request, that's an effective request, that's not a whining request. Sometimes when people go through that preparation process, they realize that the resource that they thought they needed was not what they really needed or the person they thought they needed to ask was not the person. So I encourage people, that's the last step in the process is who do you ask? Of course we always think of the usual suspects. Those are the people, our friends, family, co workers, the people right around us. And sometimes that's the right person, sometimes it's got to be the boss that you've got to ask. But I encourage people to think beyond that. So there's another way is called the two step or two degree method, which is that I might not know who the expert is, but I know who to ask. Who knows who the expert is. I have a colleague of mine who runs an Innovatrium, an innovation entrepreneur space and he's used that two step method. He told me he keeps track of it 180 times in one year to incredible success. Another is to use our dormant connections. A dormant connection is someone that you once had a relationship with, but your lives have gone in different directions. Now we might be very reluctant to try to reactivate a dormant connection like through LinkedIn, but to hear the research is helpful because Richard says that most of your dormant connections are delighted to hear from you again and they are delighted that you're reactivating the connection and they want to help and they're even better sources of help because your lives have gone in different directions. That means what they know and who they know is really quite different from your.

[Mike Carruthers]

What happens though when you ask someone for help and their advice is horrible. And, you know, it's like the dumbest thing you've ever heard of. Well, how do you then not incorporate their advice and not upset them?

[Wayne Baker]

Yeah, I think it's important to express gratitude for help that is offered, even if it turns out not to be the best help, or maybe it's the worst help, you know, the person at least tried. I think it's important to do that.

[Mike Carruthers]

Isn't it interesting? I guess it's just cultural that this idea of asking for help is so, I don't know, just so not natural. And yet it's like how like. And men are often accused of this, of, you know, not asking for directions when they're trying to get somewhere, although now you don't really need them. But men for a long time have been accused of, you know, you really just asked that guy how to get to the street. And yet when people have asked me for directions, I've always, I'm happy to help, flattered to help. I hope I can help this person. I don't know why we don't get that, why we don't mind giving help, but we're so reluctant to ask for it.

[Wayne Baker]

Yeah, I think we can blame our educational system for part of that. Most students growing up, most kids growing up, you're taught to focus on your work, take your test by yourself. It's all about individual achievement and individual performance, and that's how you get rewarded. And so that kind of reinforces the idea that you really shouldn't ask for help. In fact, in a educational context, asking for help is sometimes considered cheating. But the fact is that work is a team sport. Once you get into an organization, it's a team sport. And the only way you're going to be effective is to overcome the reluctance to ask for what you need.

[Mike Carruthers]

I don't know how you would ever measure this, but when people ask for help, generally speaking, is the help all that great? In other words, is the benefit of this because you get insight that you wouldn't otherwise have because this person had something brilliant to say, or. Or is it that it just helps to create a better atmosphere, or both?

[Wayne Baker]

I think it's both. But you want to think about what you can ask for as including lots of things. So going to somebody, asking for advice or input or review on a report, that's one thing. But sometimes what you need is a connection or a referral. That's a different kind of help that people can give. Sometimes you need, you know, social support. Or it's financial resources and that's what you need to ask for. Or it could be that you need sponsorship, you know, sponsorship to be a part of a program, or perhaps you need a mentor. That's something else you can ask for. So it all comes back to what's the goal? What are you trying to accomplish? Then what are the resources? And there's, you know, probably an endless list of the resources that are possible. So you want to think through all those about, you know, what is it that you really need to accomplish that goal.

[Nicholas Boothman]

Yeah.

[Mike Carruthers]

Well, and you know, it occurred to me too, one of the reasons that I think people are reluctant to ask, and it depends on what you're asking for, is, you know, that fear of being rejected, being told, no, no. Figure it go, you do, no, I'm not going to help you. But it probably doesn't happen anywhere near as much as people fear it will.

[Wayne Baker]

It doesn't happen as often as you would fear, that's for sure. But it does happen sometimes. And so it's important to think about what does a no really mean? Maybe the person was just having a bad day or they want to help, but the timing was bad, or who knows, is that you really don't know why someone says no. It could be a whole number of things. Another is to realize that a no is information. So sometimes you could follow up with, okay, that's fine, I understand, but perhaps could you explain a little bit so I could come up with a better request the next time I ask somebody? And ask sometimes the explanation for the no is something you didn't expect at all, something completely different. So think of a no as information that you can use to refine a request to make a more effective one later on.

[Mike Carruthers]

Well, it seems pretty clear that if you need help, probably the simplest, easiest and most effective way to get it is to ask. And I appreciate you sharing your work. Wayne Baker has been my guest. He is a professor of business administration and faculty director at the center for Positive Organizations at the University of Michigan Ross School of Business. The name of his book is all youl have to do is Ask. And you will find a link to that book in the show notes. Thanks, Wayne.

[Wayne Baker]

Well, Mike, this has been wonderful. I've enjoyed our conversation. Thank you.

[Mike Carruthers]

People have argued for quite a while now about whether or not vitamin C is very effective at preventing or treating treating a cold. But one thing scientists don't argue much about is how good vitamin C is for stress. Studies show that people who take vitamin C before giving a speech have lower blood pressure and less of the stress hormone cortisol compared to people who don't take vitamin C. People who have high levels of vitamin C do not show the expected mental and physical signs of stress when subjected to other acute psychological challenges. What's more, they bounce back from stressful situations faster than people with lower levels of vitamin C in their blood. Vitamin C is present in fresh, uncooked fruits and vegetables, especially citrus fruits and red and green peppers. Vitamin C is an unstable substance and it is destroyed by cooking by exposure to light. It's generally agreed that to get the stress reducing benefits of vitamin C, you would need to take about 1,000 milligrams or more, and that is something you should know. I'm sure you have friends, family members who would benefit from all the things you learn in this podcast. So please share something you should know with someone you know. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know.

[Nicholas Boothman]

The Infinite Monkey Cage returns imminently. I am Robert Ince and I'm sat.

[Wayne Baker]

Next to Brian Cox, who has so.

[Nicholas Boothman]

Much to tell you about what's on the new series.

[Wayne Baker]

Primarily Eels and what else.

[Nicholas Boothman]

It was fascinating though. The Eels. But we're not just doing eels, are we? We're doing a bit with brain computer interfaces, timekeeping, fusion, monkey business, cloud science at the North Pole, and eels. Did I mention the eels? Is this ever since you bought that timeshare underneath the Sargasso sea? Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

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