Why You Are More Courageous Than You Think & The Magic of Tidying Up

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Why You Are More Courageous Than You Think & The Magic of Tidying Up"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Something You Should Know
• Host: Mike Carruthers | OmniCast Media
• Episode: Why You Are More Courageous Than You Think & The Magic of Tidying Up
• Release Date: February 3, 2025

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1. Why You Are More Courageous Than You Think

Guest: Margie Worrell, Leadership Advisor and Author of The Courage Five Steps to Braver Action

In this segment, host Mike Carruthers engages in a profound discussion with Margie Worrell about the nature of courage and how individuals often underestimate their own bravery.

Defining Courage: Margie begins by defining courage not as the absence of fear, but as the [06:34] "decision to take action in the presence of our fear and doubt". She emphasizes that courage involves managing fear rather than eliminating it entirely.

Innate vs. Developed Courage: Addressing whether courage is an inherent trait, Margie explains that [06:55] everyone possesses the capacity for courage, regardless of their natural disposition. While some may be more naturally cautious or anxious, courage is a skill that can be cultivated through conscious effort and practice.

Managing Fear: Margie clarifies that fear itself is not the enemy; rather, it's about [08:12] managing fear and distinguishing between fears that are protective versus those that limit personal growth. She highlights that fear alerts us to real dangers but can also hold us back from seizing opportunities.

Practical Examples of Courage: Using relatable scenarios, such as a high school student hesitating to ask someone to the prom, Margie breaks down the [09:51] fear of rejection and how internalizing rejection can prevent individuals from taking brave actions. She advocates for the "one minute rule," where dedicating just one minute to a brave action can unlock unforeseen opportunities.

Embracing Failure: Margie underscores that [13:25] failure is an integral part of courageous actions. Successful individuals often fail repeatedly but learn and grow from these experiences. She introduces the concept of "worthy failures," which are risks that honor one's aspirations and contribute to personal development.

Long-Term Regret vs. Short-Term Fear: Discussing the theory of regret, Margie points out that people are [22:06] three times more likely to regret the chances they didn't take than the failures they experienced. She encourages listeners to focus on the long-term benefits of courageous actions over the immediate discomfort of fear.

Key Quotes:

• Margie Worrell at [06:34]: "Courage is the decision to take action in the presence of our fear and doubt."
• Margie Worrell at [13:25]: "When we risk those worthy failures, we never regret them."
• Margie Worrell at [22:06]: "We are three times more likely to regret the chances that we didn't take."

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2. The Magic of Tidying Up

Guest: Tyler Moore (a.k.a. Jack), Creator of Tidy Dad, Author of Tidy Up Your Life

Following the insightful conversation on courage, Mike Carruthers transitions to a discussion about the importance of tidiness and organization with Tyler Moore.

Understanding Tidying Up: Tyler defines tidying up as [31:53] "the process of bringing order to things," extending beyond physical possessions to areas like hobbies, professional life, and relationships. He believes that tidying enhances both aesthetics and functionality in various aspects of life.

Starting Small: Mike and Tyler discuss effective strategies for decluttering, emphasizing that tackling an entire home at once can lead to overwhelm. Tyler suggests starting with [34:07] specific categories that don't require negotiation, such as personal workspaces or individual items, to build momentum without interpersonal conflicts.

Zoning and Organization: Tyler introduces the concept of [32:49] zoning, where different areas of a space are designated for specific functions. For example, in the kitchen, establishing prep, cooking, serving, and cleanup zones can streamline activities and maintain order, much like professional kitchens operate efficiently to serve customers promptly.

Addressing Common Clutter Areas: The conversation highlights common problem areas like the tech drawer and coffee mugs. Tyler shares his personal experience of decluttering tech cords by setting a timer and categorizing items, which not only reduces clutter but also improves daily usability [36:08]. Similarly, he addresses the accumulation of coffee mugs, encouraging listeners to evaluate their actual needs versus sentimental attachments [37:17].

Benefits of Tidiness: Tyler emphasizes that organized spaces lead to [39:09] reduced stress, increased efficiency, and better maintenance of the home. He shares anecdotes about how disorganization can lead to practical issues, such as being unable to locate essential items in emergencies, thereby reinforcing the importance of maintaining tidy spaces.

Overcoming Psychological Barriers: Mike reflects on the reluctance to address minor clutter, noting that while some people may not find it bothersome, others may need inspiration to take action. Tyler responds by advocating for [41:42] intentional focus on what to keep, setting "just enough" criteria to ensure spaces remain functional and welcoming.

Key Quotes:

• Tyler Moore at [31:53]: "Tidying up is the process of bringing order to things."
• Tyler Moore at [34:07]: "Start with decluttering categories where you don't have to negotiate."
• Tyler Moore at [37:17]: "Establishing the purpose of each space helps in setting up organizational systems."

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Conclusion

In this episode of "Something You Should Know," Mike Carruthers masterfully intertwines the themes of personal courage and the art of tidying up, presenting them as complementary aspects of personal growth and life improvement. Through Margie Worrell's insights, listeners are encouraged to recognize and harness their innate bravery, while Tyler Moore offers practical strategies to organize and streamline their physical environments. Together, these discussions provide a holistic approach to enhancing one's life, emphasizing that courage and orderliness are foundational to achieving greater fulfillment and success.

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Notable Mentions:

• Books Referenced:

  • The Courage Five Steps to Braver Action by Margie Worrell
  • Tidy Up Your Life by Tyler Moore

• Websites and Social Media:

  • Tyler Moore's platforms: Tidy Dad Instagram and TikTok

Listeners are encouraged to implement the discussed strategies to cultivate courage in their personal endeavors and create more organized, efficient living spaces. By doing so, they can unlock new opportunities, reduce stress, and enhance their overall quality of life.

Transcript

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[Mike Carruthers]

Today on something you should know. Why do you always seem to pick the slowest checkout line in the grocery store? Then? Personal courage. How to do something brave that could change your life.

[Margie Worrell]

You know, I practice the one minute rule. That one brave minute in one minute of brave action could open up a whole lot of opportunities that you just don't even know about. When we give ourselves permission to feel anything, it actually opens us up for everything.

[Mike Carruthers]

Also, the reason you may be having really strange dreams at night and the magic of tidying up your life. And great suggestions on how to get started.

[Jack]

Most recently I did our like tech drawer, which I feel like everybody is great at bringing new tech in, but there's something about us that like holds on to all of those cords and chargers even when we've gotten multiple duplicates. Forevermore.

[Mike Carruthers]

All this today on something you should know.

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[Mike Carruthers]

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[Mike Carruthers]

Something you should know Fascinating intel, the world's top experts and practical advice you can use in your life today. Something you should know with Mike Carruthers. You know, as someone who enjoys grocery shopping, I noticed a long time ago, and I'm absolutely certain you've noticed this too, that no matter how hard you try, it seems like more often than not you get in the checkout line that is slower than all the others. Well, this phenomenon has actually been studied. And the reason why that happens? Well, there's a couple of reasons, but one of the big reasons is that random interruptions like a price check or a chatty customer can really slow the line way down. And those interruptions can happen at any time and in any line. So if there are, for example, three checkout lines open, you have a two out of three chance of not being in the fastest line. The more open lines, the worse your chances. What's actually more interesting is really the whole system is flawed. If supermarkets did it the way banks and airports and hotels do it, you would actually get out of the store faster. And that is to have one line and have the person at the front of the line go to the next available checker. So why don't supermarkets do it that way? Well, room is a problem. There's really no place to put that line. But a bigger factor is customers don't like it. But here are a few suggestions. It's not just how long the line is. If the cashier has someone bagging groceries for them, that line will move faster. Also, it's not just the number of people in line. People with a lot of items in their cart take a lot longer and slow the line way down. Another tip is, you know, just don't sweat it. Because it turns out there are probably plenty of times you probably were in the short line. You just tended not to notice. Human beings are more likely to notice setbacks when things don't go right, but they often do. And that is something you should know. How many times have you not done something and later regretted it, perhaps saying to yourself, I wish I'd had the courage to do that. I wish I had been braver. It just seemed too risky. Yet courage is something most of us admire in other people are Those people born courageous? Or is courage something you can develop? And if so, how? Those are the questions Margie Worrell is here to answer. She is a leadership advisor, keynote speaker and, and has worked with organizations such as NASA, Dell, Morgan Stanley, hp, Google and Johnson and Johnson. She's the author of several books including the Courage five Steps to Braver Action. Hey, Margie, good to have you here.

[Margie Worrell]

Mike, terrific to be with you.

[Mike Carruthers]

So let's start with your definition of courage.

[Margie Worrell]

My definition of courage is the decision to take action in the presence of our fear and doubt and risk is courage.

[Advertiser]

Do you think something some people are born with?

[Mike Carruthers]

There are people who seem very courageous.

[Advertiser]

Did they come out that way or.

[Mike Carruthers]

Did they work on it or what?

[Margie Worrell]

Well, let me just start by sharing two core dimensions of courage. The first is the management of our fear. So sometimes people are afraid, disproportionate to any real risk. And the second is our willingness to take action in the presence of it. So some people are born a little more uptight and anxious and naturally more kind of cautious and risk averse than others. And so they'll often feel a little more fearful when it comes to doing something, to going on an adventure, to putting themselves out there. And so I think everyone has the capacity for courage, from the most timid and cautious to the most bold, you know, risk taking people that we think of, Bear Grylls, Richard Branson, you know, the Navy seals. But everyone has this capacity to build courage and to take action in the presence of their fears and doubts. But what it looks like for each of us can be very different.

[Mike Carruthers]

But how do you tell? I mean, sometimes when you feel afraid of doing something, there's that little voice in your head that says don't. That might be something to listen to. Maybe you shouldn't. And maybe that voice is keeping you out of harm's way.

[Margie Worrell]

Absolutely, yes. Fear, that, that emotion of fear. Let's just be clear. We wouldn't be here as a species if we didn't feel afraid. So I think fear gets a bad rap like, ah, you know, if we could just eradicate fear. Fear is the enemy. No, fear is not the enemy. Fear is what's helped all of us avoid doing stupid things, particularly in our younger years when we may have felt a little more invulnerable to the dangers of the world. So it's that fear is a bad thing. And so sometimes our fear is alerting us to a legitimate danger. You know, don't dive into that river. You don't know how deep it is don't, you know, run across the freeway, don't invest money with this person because something's coming up. You got this feeling like they're just not to be trusted. So to be clear, fear isn't the enemy. It is not about fear eradication. It's about fear management and being able to discern what fears are serving me, what fears are enabling me to. To use my time and my talents and my energy toward things that enrich my life. And what fears are actually keeping me from doing those very things.

[Mike Carruthers]

So let's take a real simple example that I think anyone who went to high school can relate to. You know, the guy who wants to ask the girl on a date or to the prom or something, and he puts it off, and he puts it off and he knows, you know, he might get rejected. You know, maybe she's out of his league, but if he never asks, he'll never get the date. But asking, he's afraid of something. So what is he afraid of?

[Margie Worrell]

You're afraid of the sting of rejection. And it's actually not the rejection itself. It's what we make it mean, that I'm not good enough. If you knew that if we didn't internalize that rejection as a judgment that we are inadequate, that we're not cute enough, that we're not popular enough, that we're not smart enough, then we would just ask them. We'd go, hey, do you want to go out on a date? And if they said no, you go, oh, well, whatever. But we don't do that because. Because we, we just want to avoid the chance of them saying no, thank you. Thanks, but no thanks. And like, ah, I'm not good enough. And I think, you know, this can apply to people who are 16 years old and they want to invite someone to the prom. And it can to someone. I've got friends who are 56 years old and they're like, I'd really like to meet someone, but. And it's like, I don't want to have to feel the uncomfortable emotions that may come my way if I do put myself out there. You know, it could be applying for another job. It could be inviting someone on a date. Could be just a platonic reaching out to someone you'd like to get to know better. And so we often hold back. You know, procrastination is just a way to avoid. It's a tactic to avoid the discomfort of trying something and not doing well.

[Mike Carruthers]

So when somebody says to you what you just said, like, I don't want.

[Advertiser]

To feel those emotions.

[Mike Carruthers]

I don't want to get rejected. I'd really like to meet somebody and I know it's not the end of the world if they say no. You would say, what?

[Margie Worrell]

Well, people will rarely say, I don't want to feel those emotions. Actually, what they'll usually say is, I'm just too busy. Or there'll be some other reason. It's not always that, oh, I don't want to feel those emotions. It's like, oh, no, it's just not the right time. Or it's not so bad right now. And we'll come up with a whole lot of other reasons that give us air cover. So I would just be going, okay, so let's pull this back. What. What have you got to lose? And you know, well, at the end of the day, I've got to lose a little bit of face here. I've got to lose, you know, my pride a little bit. Like, I don't want to feel that way. And then I'm like, what have you got to gain? And, you know, we don't know what we don't experience when we don't be brave, right? We don't. That, hey, we could have met some awesome person, or we could have gone to some event and met a whole lot of people or landed some great opportunity. We don't know what we don't get because we stuck with what was safe. So often our attention zeroes in on what could go wrong or what could be lost, and we really just quickly pass by, well, what is it that you could be losing? What's the opportunity cost of you not doing this? And so, you know, in my book, I talk about, you know, practice, the one minute rule, that one brave minute, like in one minute of brave action could open up a whole lot of opportunities that you just don't even. You don't even know about. But just recognizing that when we give ourselves permission to feel anything, it actually opens us up for everything.

[Mike Carruthers]

I wonder if people who are courageous, people who are able to manage this well, if they have a lot of.

[Advertiser]

Failures, if they try a lot of.

[Mike Carruthers]

Things because they're courageous.

[Advertiser]

It would seem that many of them.

[Mike Carruthers]

Maybe weren't such great ideas, but they tried them anyway.

[Margie Worrell]

100%. Absolutely. People who land on the top of the mountain, and I'm not saying we all want to land on the top of a mountain, but people who land there didn't just get there by accident. It's because they were just putting themselves out there, trying things, doing things, failing a lot. You know, the most successful people aren't people who haven't failed. They've failed way more than the average person. But they don't let the failures define them. They learn from them. We're all going to fail. Either we're going to try things and fail, or we're going to fail to try things, in which case there's valuable learning either way. And often we brush past it and we don't want to really look at it because it's a little uncomfortable to look at sometimes. It's, it's revealing to us like something we don't really want to see. But giving yourself permission to risk what I call a worthy failure. A worthy failure is pursuing something where there's a risk of failure, but it honors the person you want to become. You know, it could be in a work setting, it could be in a relationship, it could be going off, traveling somewhere, but I mightn't land this perfectly. But I'm always going to be proud of myself that I tried to do it. That's it. And if you, and if you fail, it was worthy. It was worthy. You honored yourself. You honored what it is you really wanted to do. And here's, here's what all the research shows and my own experience shows too, Mike, that when we do risk those worthy failures, we never regret them. And here's why. When you don't try something, you don't change. You don't learn information, you don't learn new, meet new people. You don't discover something else that, that does work. You don't expand your world. You stick exactly where you are when you try things, even when you fail sometimes you meet new people, you gain new knowledge, you realize, oh, I can handle stuff like that. You discover things about yourself. You discover often things that do work. And so we need to, you know, give ourselves permission to kind of blunder imperfectly forward, not in a reckless way. I'm not talking about, not thinking about what are the, what are the risks that you need managing, but just in a thoughtful way, knowing that it's through our inaction that our comfort zone gets smaller and smaller. But when you're doing things, you're like, ah, you know, I'd really like to learn something new. I'd really like to change this thing. And you know what? I'm not exactly sure what I'm doing, but I'm going to start stepping toward it. You are always going to end up being a bigger, braver version of the person that you have it within you to become than had you not done it. And we often discount the cost of inaction.

[Mike Carruthers]

Finding the courage and bravery to do something important. That's what we're talking about with Margy Worll. She's author of the book the Courage Five Steps to Braver Action. I'm really excited to have Factor back as a sponsor. Factor provides delicious chef made gourmet meals right to your door. And just to be clear, this is not a box of ingredients that you have to make. These are not frozen meals. These are fresh, fully prepared meals ready to heat and eat in two minutes. And they're so good. I first had Factor Meals delivered to me. It's been a few years now and everyone in the house has loved them. What's really special about Factor Meals is they're dietitian approved and the variety is impressive. There are 40 options across eight dietary preferences on the menu each week and you can choose from preferences like Calorie Smart, Protein plus, or keto. What kind of meals are they? Well, I think you'd find these pretty tasty. Chicken Florentine with Spinach and garlic Chili Cauliflower, Cajun spiced salmon and shrimp Garlic Pork tenderloin. It's like a gourmet restaurant and this is going to make it easy for you to try. Eat Smart with Factor. Get started@Factor Meals.com something50off and use code something50OFF to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. That's code [e-mail] something50OFF to get 50% OFF plus free shipping on your first box. And I'll put that code in the show notes to make this simple.

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[Mike Carruthers]

So, Margie, there are those things I'm thinking of. I can remember, for example, buying your first house.

[Advertiser]

My first house.

[Mike Carruthers]

And it was tight. It was like, boy, nothing better go wrong. There better not be a leak in the roof because we are right at the edge here.

[Advertiser]

Do you do it?

[Mike Carruthers]

Do you not do it?

[Jack]

And.

[Mike Carruthers]

If things had gone wrong, people would say, well, that was reckless.

[Advertiser]

You really couldn't afford it.

[Mike Carruthers]

You shouldn't have done it.

[Advertiser]

If things go well, go, oh, that was so brave, Moy.

[Mike Carruthers]

You really took a chance, but it could have gone either way.

[Margie Worrell]

Well, I think recognizing that most of the time when we're taking risk, it's really, really rarely binary. Like, oh, yeah, I was going to win, I was going to lose. So, for instance, buying a house, when I look back, I wished I'd spent more money and extended myself more, but I was way too uncomfortable and financially risk averse than to put so much money into my first home on my second home, frankly. But, but to that point, Mike, we're always, we're always having to analyze the pros and the cons. You know, can I afford it? Can I not afford it? What's the risk? What are the chances of this going wrong? So just, we need to do that analysis. And you said, well, it could have gone either way. You know, most the time it's not 50, 50. Most of the time it's like, well, you know, there was a 15, 20% chance it might not worked out. But it's not like we sit ID while the whole thing falls. Yes, sometimes, you know, the stock market just crashes overnight. But most the time there's signs that things aren't starting to go well and we can intervene to shore up the downsides. You know, I remember meeting Richard Branson a few years back and he talked about taking a third mortgage on his home in his early days with Virgin. And I said, gosh, how did your wife feel about that? Because he was married, he had a little child. And he said, oh, I didn't tell her. And I was thinking, man, I wouldn't have wanted to be married to you back in the day. But he also said he always sought to shore up against the downsides of the losses. So that if he. If he lost things, you know, he didn't lose everything, how could he. How could he avoid that in terms of the way he financed things, et cetera? And of course, we are not all wired to be, you know, trailblazing entrepreneurs that bet, you know, take a second and third mortgage out on our home. But we do need to make bets all the time. If you go through your days, we're always making a bet, do I spend my time on this or not? And it's the risk reward analysis, and often we're a little too cautious and we actually should go, you know what? I'm going to back myself here. I'm going to go out on a little bit of a limb. Not, not crazy, but I'm just going to put some of my own identity on the line here because I really feel like this is the direction I want to be heading.

[Advertiser]

Of course, when you don't take a.

[Mike Carruthers]

Risk, you'll never know. And. And maybe that feels comfortable for some people that, you know, you can imagine. Well, if I had, you know, if.

[Advertiser]

I'd done that, it would have just gone to hell.

[Mike Carruthers]

So I didn't do that. And thank God I didn't do that.

[Margie Worrell]

Yeah, that's true. But actually, the evidence shows that we are three times more likely to regret the chances that we didn't take. And at the end of life, we're more likely to regret the brave things we didn't do. So there's this. It's called the theory of regret that we regret because we don't know what could have happened. And, yeah, in the short term, it's like, well, I didn't have to risk the rejection. But over time, when we've got more time and we can look at things through a longer arc of time, going, I should have just asked her out. Heck. And, you know, I'm sure you've heard the saying, fear regret more than you fear failure. But I know for me, when I wrote my first book, I had four kids, seven and under, and I just felt really passionate around what I was doing. And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing with writing a book. I've got four little kids. And I just thought, I don't want to look back one day and go, what if I tried? And did I write a, you know, literary masterpiece? No. Did I feel really nervous as it was coming out? Yes. Was it easy? No. Did I. Was it. Did I write a bestseller that made me millions of dollars? Absolutely. Not remotely yes, but I always regret, I'm always pleased that I wrote that book because that book opened up the door to new opportunities and to doing media interviews and then to speaking more widely. And it was just a first step. And it was a fumbly first step. It was an awkward first step, but it opened up the door to a whole lot of other possibilities. And likewise, you know, whenever I meet someone who's really thriving in their life, they're constantly trying things and not everything lands, you know? Yeah, sometimes it doesn't, but when we don't, we don't interpret failure as, you know, who we are. Failure is an event, not a person. And when we can befriend failure as a prerequisite for us to learn what we need to learn to keep moving forward smarter, then it actually frees us to risk more of it. And now I'm not talking massive failures, but just like, oh, I'm going to go along to this thing and meet these people or I'm going to write an article and it mightn't be the best article or you know, whatever it is for you, but you know, that, that, that thing of embracing that concept of embracing imperfection and good enough and just putting yourself out there and giving yourself permission not to nail it all the time actually just empowers you to do so many more things than you ever would if you were waiting to line all your ducks in a row.

[Advertiser]

I imagine we all know people who have that, but I know people who.

[Mike Carruthers]

Have that ability to just not care. You know, they just, they don't worry about what's gonna happen. They don't worry about what people are gonna think. And they seem to have an advantage because they're not shackled by that anxiety of, yeah, but what if it doesn't work?

[Margie Worrell]

Yeah, I know those people too. Aren't they annoying? Look, I wished I was one of those people who didn't care. I, I wished I didn't feel so self conscious. I wish there wasn't a little voice in my head as I'm talking to you, Mike, going, oh, Maggie, you're saying the right things. Are you hitting it? You know, there is, it's there. What I, what I know is, it's like, how much power do we give that for those people who just don't care? I actually would say we shouldn't aspire not to care about anything. We should care deeply about things. But it's about caring about the right things. It's about caring about doing things with our time that make the world A little better. Even if it's our neighbor's life a little better, or, you know, our kids or our family, etc. So it's about what is it that you are putting your focus on? What do you care about? Because what we focus on expands. And so some of us can put all of our focus and attention into what will people think if I mess up? I'm like, yeah, but what will you think of yourself if you don't give yourself a chance? So put your focus on what it is you want, not on what you don't want. Because you can get crippled, like really be held almost captive by impression management, trying to look good in the eyes of others. You know, I like looking good in front of the eyes of others. I mean, I'm human. I'd like to think that everyone thought I was great. But what I know is more important is me feeling great about what I'm doing. So I put my attention into what is it I'm doing that makes me feel that's meaningful, that's purposeful, that I think it adds. Makes the world a better place, and not on what will everyone say? And so I think there is a real power here in being intentional about what you put your focus on.

[Advertiser]

I love that what you said about when we don't do something and we.

[Mike Carruthers]

Worry about what will happen, that that.

[Advertiser]

Is so much worse than what actually happens. Most of the time it's that anticipation of horror is much worse than any.

[Mike Carruthers]

Horror that that usually ever happens.

[Margie Worrell]

Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it? I. I've had people tell me over the years they've just been really stressed about making a change. Sometimes it's ending a relationship, sometimes it's telling someone feedback at work, or they've got to let someone go, or they know they need to do something and they. They're so anxious about it and then they finally do it. And I have never had anyone tell me that they wish they'd waited longer. Everyone has said, I wished I hadn't waited so long. Like they. The stress they had by delaying the action they knew they needed to take. I always say cold water doesn't get warm if you wait longer. So. So if you're not on a path, if there's something you know you need to do, it's not going to get easier a year from now and two years from now and five years from now.

[Mike Carruthers]

I would suspect that everybody listening has had experiences like you've been talking about that there's something that they regret not doing or that they regret not doing sooner because it's more difficult now. And you've, I think, given people a lot of courage to move forward and do something, even if it's scary because it's the courageous thing to do. Margie Worrell has been my guest. She is a leadership advisor and author of several books. Her latest is called the Courage Five Steps to Braver Action and there's a link to that book in the show notes. Margie, thank you. It's always a pleasure speaking with you.

[Margie Worrell]

Thanks Mike. Great to speak with you.

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[Margie Worrell]

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[Margie Worrell]

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[Jack]

Switching to H and R block is easy, just drag and drop your last return. It's better with block.

[Mike Carruthers]

Is your home or workspace tidy? What does it mean to be tidy? What are the benefits? Some people seem to be naturally tidy, others not so much. Here to discuss the importance of tidy and how to do it is Tyler Moore. He's the creator of the popular Tidy Dad, Instagram, TikTok and website. He's a public School teacher in New York City, who has been featured on Good Morning America and in the Washington Post, the New York Times, and the New York Post. And he's author of a book called Tidy up youp Life. Hi, Tyler. Welcome to Something youg Should Know.

[Jack]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Mike Carruthers]

So let me ask you, when you hear the phrase, you write the phrase tidy up, what does that mean to you? What does tidy up mean? Because I think it means different things to different people.

[Jack]

Yeah. So to me, tidying up is this process of bringing order to things. And I think oftentimes people think about it just with their physical possessions. You know, the act of putting something away once it's been used. But I also feel like tidying up these days, it's really transcending just the aesthetics of our home that, you know, you name it, you can learn to tidy it up. Be it your hobbies or your professional life or the relationships that you have with people, or your, like, email inbox, your calendar that you're dealing with, anything that you can name, you can learn to tidy it up.

[Mike Carruthers]

Don't you think, though, that there's. I don't know if it's a personality trait or maybe there's a gene, but, you know, some people are just better at this than others. They like things in order and they make it a priority to keep things orderly. And other people don't, and they're messier. And other people. Most people are probably somewhere in the middle.

[Jack]

Yeah. I definitely think that we all have thresholds of mess, and I think that that's one of the beautifully messy joys of life, is that we're often sharing spaces with other people, whether it be at home or in the workplace. But I often think that, you know, if you can drill down to that area of your life that you really feel is. Is tidiest, and like, for some people, it's their car or like their glove compartment, their trunk. It could be those drawers that are in the kitchen. If you go to that place where you feel like it is that, like, optimal level of tidiness, you can start to unearth sort of the why behind that. Why is it that you show much, you know, show so much care or affection for that one thing, and then how could that transcend into other areas of life that may feel a little bit messier? Because I do find that we all have those areas of our life that it is of value or importance to keep tidy. And then there are other places of our lives that we just sort of let things go and it could be like the side of your bed where you just throw the clothes at the end of the night instead of putting it in the laundry hamper. Like, there is a why or a bigger, you know, sort of question underneath that.

[Mike Carruthers]

Where do you think? To get specific here, where do you think is a good place to start if you were so inclined to tidy up?

[Jack]

So I feel like so often when people start the process of, like, tidying or decluttering, they're so excited to take on their entire house at one time. And it's sort of like when you start that new resolution that you're going to, like, work out every single day of the month, like a few days in, you start to develop muscle fatigue and overwhelm. And that can happen with tidying, too. And I feel like when you want to. To have an entry point or a place to start, I feel like decluttering those categories where you don't have to negotiate can be so freeing. So, like, for you, if you are starting with the clothing that's in your closet, if you're starting with your work stuff, if you're talking about your own individual work bag, like, those are things that you're able to actually declutter and go through without negotiating with your wife, for example. Because I feel like so often when you have to declutter with negotiating, that's when all of these other relational sort of issues start to pop up. And it's not to say that you never want to declutter, you know, with negotiating, but I feel like if you are inspired, it's like, start with your own stuff first, and then you gradually begin to take on the more complex sort of categories and the decluttering process that I recommend. It's you first clear the space, then you start to sort the stuff because it needs to be in smaller categories, then you can begin to assess what do you want to keep versus what do you want to move out before you then make the organizational plan for all of those items that you've chosen to keep. But I do feel like decluttering without negotiating first is a great place to start.

[Mike Carruthers]

I remember hearing the advice that, and I've used it, is that when it's time, when you finally get in that mood to do some of what we're talking about here, to start with some surface, someplace that's very visible, and don't go clean the back closet. Clean something that you can look at and you'll see and go, yeah, that felt pretty good to clean that up.

[Jack]

Yeah, absolutely not. And, you know Most recently I did our like tech drawer, which I feel like everybody is great at bringing new tech in, but there's something about us that like holds on to all of those cords and chargers even when we've got gotten multiple duplicates forevermore. And so over the weekend I was like, let me just set a timer for like 15 minutes. Let me pull all these chords out and actually see can I sort these and get these reorganized into a way that's like actually usable for our family. And it was amazing to see one, the like volume of chords that we had. But two, to be able to name, like which of the chords did I actually like? Like what was the optimal length, which ones were sort of like broken at the end. And it really reminded me of the power of that like 15 to 20 minute declutter with a very narrow category that then has so many positive impacts on your life, like when your device needs to be charged that you know exactly where to go for like the type A or the type C charger in a place that's like neat and tidy and organized.

[Mike Carruthers]

Yeah. Makes all the sense in the world. And I think everybody has that tech problem. I mean we certainly do. We have a drawer so full of cables that God knows what they're to. We probably don't even have the device anymore, but we still have the cables.

[Jack]

Yeah. And I don't know what it is. I feel like sometimes there's this like doomsday scenario almost that we're all planning for. Like we sort of have lived through doomsday scenarios which is still coming out of the pandemic of 2020. But whether it's toilet paper or coffee mugs or like tech cords, you know, it's like, why do we need the volume that we do? Is it so that if we happen to have 30 friends who come over and all of their cell phones are like dead and they're expecting like important like life altering calls that they all need to be charging their phones at the same time. Like when you start to use a little bit of humor and ask yourself like, am I planning for a doomsday scenario right now that can sort of help you guide to what is that, like just enough number or what is that just right number of the number of cords that you need that make you feel comfortable so that when you open up that drawer you can actually find what you need as opposed to being frustrated that you can't find something and then you have to go out and buy a new cord because you lost the cord that came with your device. And then you're just continually bringing all of those, like, new things in.

[Mike Carruthers]

What you just said about coffee cups made me smile because we have in our cupboard in the kitchen where we keep the coffee cups, I don't know, two dozen coffee cups. We use four of them pretty regularly and the others just are in the back there. But we don't throw them away because, you know, Aunt Sarah gave us that teacup that no one has ever used in the history of the world, but we can't bear to throw it away.

[Jack]

Yeah, no, it's funny. And I feel like coffee cups, that's. It's almost sort of like, I don't know what it is. It's a category for people. And I don't know if it relates to deeper values that we have around, like hospitality or it reminds us of seeing friends. Or sometimes people collect coffee mugs when they're traveling, but also they have those coffee mugs from like, Aunt Sarah. But I do feel like if you can name for yourself also, like, what is getting in the way because of that volume of, of coffee cups, that coffee cups. Coffee cups that I have, like, that can be an important place to start. And like, we live in a 750 square foot apartment. Like, I just went through coffee mugs also recently, and my daughters were like, daddy, what are you doing? Those are all of our holiday mugs. And I was like, it's fine. I'm not getting rid of the holiday mugs, but I'm like moving them with the holiday stuff because they can't be out on these shelves for the next year. So I do feel like, like, you know, again, it's going back to that, like, doomsday scenario. Like, do you have enough coffee mugs to not wash your coffee cup for an entire month? Like, if so, that may be too many. Do you actually have a coffee pot that's large enough? If all of your friends come over and everyone is holding a coffee mug, like, can you actually fill up everyone's coffee mug at the exact same time? The answer is probably no. So like, that could be a category that you start examining and that could be a great sort of like testing ground for some of your decluttering skills.

[Mike Carruthers]

There is that thing, though. Like, we have all these coffee mugs, but it doesn't bother us enough to do anything about it. I mean, no one has even brought it up. We just kind of notice it, but we don't. Like, it just hasn't risen to the level of we really need to do something about probably if we get some more coffee mugs, and we have no place to put them. Something's going to have to give.

[Jack]

Yeah. And I think that that's okay. And I think that, you know, one of the philosophies that I like to share with people is this idea of being able to name what is just enough for you in any individual category. And I think that our spaces in our homes function best when we feel like we do have space for the things that we value or love or enjoy. That it's like, so often we can look at our square footage as being limiting, but it's often because we have an abundance of things in categories that are taking up space that might not be allowing those new things to come in or be able to organize those things that we have of value.

[Mike Carruthers]

I think everybody has struggled with organizing their kitchen properly, and I don't even really know what that means to organize your kitchen other than you pick a drawer and you put all the spatulas in there, and now your spatulas are organized.

[Jack]

I think that this is when you look at a restaurant or, you know, those, like, Master Chef episodes, especially when you have, like, Gordon Ramsay sort of, like, yelling at you and you have the clock counting down. Like, restaurants have to be organized in such a way that the chefs, the sous chefs, the servers, are able to get the food out to people in a timely manner. And as you mentioned, like, so often when people move into a space or when they're, like, unboxing items to go into their kitchen, you sort of adopt this, like, put it wherever it fits sort of mindset that it's like, okay, there's a drawer over here, or there's a cabinet there. Let me just put the stuff away. And oftentimes, you know how people put things away when they first move in. Moved in, whether it's five years ago, a decade ago, 20 years ago, it's sort of like, that is what set the organizational blueprint. And so I feel like zoning can be a really important sort of organizational approach where it's like, within the kitchen, you need to have a prep station, you need to have a cooking station, you need to have a serving station, you need to have a cleanup zone. If you have kids, you need to have the items, like, where kids can access them. And that's exactly what the top restaurants around the world do. Like, there is this organizational blueprint, and there's these zones that are established because the goal is to make really beautiful, wonderful, savory foods in a very quick or efficient manner, because it could be the best restaurant in the world. But if it's not set up for efficiency and it takes two hours from the time you've ordered to the time that dish lands on your plate or on your table, like, like it's not going to taste as good and people aren't going to be happy.

[Mike Carruthers]

Since you, you talk to people and, and people watch your videos and, and communicate with you, what are the other, what, what, what are the other big problem areas that people seem to talk about?

[Jack]

I think that people have these sort of like catch all zones. And whether it is, you know, you live in a small space or you live in this like palatial sort of farmhouse. I've also had people who live in castles who are like, can declutter and I'm like, I think I can help you with that castle. But like, first we've got to sort of pare down these different wings that you have. But I feel like people are notorious for having these like, catch all, I'll get to it later sort of areas. And so often when you have closets or wardrobes or dressers, like you don't actually think about them as real estate. That's important within your home. You know, like when we get architectural blueprints, we often see the purpose of the room that is named. Like it's very clear that there's the living room, there's the kitchen, there are the bathrooms, but then there are those smaller closeted areas that people don't give a specific name or purpose to. And so I feel like one strategy that I've, I've shared with people is to actually treat your closets like rooms. And like, can you name what is the specific function or purpose? And like, if you were doing this overhead layout of your entire space, could you tangibly name for yourself and for others, others what the purpose of that closet is, which then helps you to set up the organizational system, which then helps you with the tidying process of putting things back in their place, which then can also help you with the process of cleaning, which is like the removal of dirt and grime and signs of life. But so much is interconnected and related. And oftentimes that catch all can just feel like this huge overwhelming barrier that often, often is drawn from the fact that like you're not actually clear what the purpose of that space is in the first place.

[Mike Carruthers]

And you know that space is full of stuff, but you have no idea what exactly is in there.

[Jack]

Yes. And then there it leads to that like over sort of like spending and consumption because when you can't find something, you're like, well, I've got to go back out the store to get it. Or when you have, you know, a spouse or kids and you're like, just, you know, just go to that closet, just go to that bedroom. Like that's where it probably is. Like no one is actually going to take the time to sort through everything that's in there. And so I think that, you know, establishing the purpose, establishing zones, committing to stopping that trend of like that's just our catch all space. I don't know. It's something that's really important because it, as I mentioned, it like leads to you going and buying more stuff or it leads to resentments or frustration or sometimes just embarrassment where you just have that door that like nobody's allowed to open, nobody could go in there. And you just sort of try to forget about it, even though it's sort of like subconsciously lingering for you.

[Mike Carruthers]

Well, it's like that kitchen junk drawer, we have that. And the only time anybody bothers to clean anything out is when you can't close it anymore because so much junk is sticking out of the top. And you look in there and you don't even know what most of the stuff is in there. And there's notepads and pencils that don't work and pens that ran out of ink.

[Jack]

And then I just love that. Then it's like the person who found it somehow gets to become the person who like blames it on everyone else who lives in the house. Because we've all done that. We've like opened the drawer and then it's immediately like, who put all this stuff there? Why is everyone doing this? Why can't people just put their stuff away? Even though you have may actually caused some of that disorganization yourself because no.

[Mike Carruthers]

One ever cleaned it. Stuff only goes in it, nothing ever comes out. I found a dog license from a dog that had died like years ago. Still sitting in a junk drawer.

[Jack]

Yes. And it's like, well, I've held on to this for all these years, like why would I get rid of this now? Which again just sort of perpetuates this cycle. And I think it's why, you know, the processes of decluttering and organizing, tidying and then cleaning. I think it's why they're so important and it's why those four really do need to be treated as separate, you know, sort of routines and systems that also all are intertwined. And it's just like, like, you know, A few months ago, my youngest daughter like completely clogged the down the toilet which then caused it to like flood into our downstairs neighbor's apartment. And you know, it was like, where did I need to shut off that water? Like our water valve for the entire bathroom is like underneath the bathroom sink. And like, if that was an untidy place, it would then cause, you know, me to not be able to actually get to the valve to turn it off. And it's one of those examples where, where yes, that sort of feels like a catastrophe sort of like situation. But there are practical realities that like disorganization does make it really hard for us to maintain our homes. And when we don't maintain our homes, there are a whole host of issues that can surface and problems that can happen where we have to throw money at things simply because we didn't like either know how to take care of it in the first place or actually take care of it it in a way that like keeps things maintained and organized.

[Mike Carruthers]

Do you think though that people really sit around and worry about this? I mean you do, and the people who watch your videos and read your book clearly have a motive to want to fix something. But I wonder if just in general people really worry so much about this or it's just some people.

[Jack]

I think that just some people do. But you know, like the example that I gave of like, like we have a cottage in Pennsylvania and one of the best things that we did when we purchased our home, a friend said, find yourself a home inspector that will allow you to walk around the house with you because that home inspector is actually going to teach you how to take care of your home. And that was one of the best things that I could have possibly done in like that like two hour stretch of time that he allowed me to follow him around. He was like, here's how you turn off the water. These are things to look for in the cross space. Here's how you want to get into the attic. And like these are things that you want to check seasonally. Like just that two hours stretch of time gave me so much sort of like mental clarity on how to share or you know, how to take care of our space.

[Mike Carruthers]

Well, all these things that you're talking about, I think nag all of us. And in many cases it's not naggy enough to like want to do anything about it. It's just kind of frustrating. But I think you've given people some inspiration that it's really worth putting in a little effort to learn how things work, discover where things are, tidy things up, and it just kind of lightens the load. I've been talking to Tyler Moore. He's the creator of the popular Tidy Dad, Instagram, TikTok and website, and he's author of a book called Tidy up youp Life, and there's a link to that book in the show. Notes, notes. Tyler, I appreciate you coming on and explaining all this.

[Jack]

All right, thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me.

[Mike Carruthers]

I came across an article several years ago about weird dreams that I always remember because I've been known to have weird dreams. And I found it again and thought I would pass this along to you. Because weird dreams, it turns out, could be a warning. A warning that you're really stressed out. The article quotes sleep researcher Rosalind Cartwright, who passed away a few years ago. She explains in this article that when your stress levels are high, your sleep cycle gets interrupted. She said, ideally, your dreams get progressively more positive as you sleep, so you wake up in a better mood than you were when you went to bed. But when you're stressed out, you wake up more often, which disrupts this process and allows unpleasant dreams to recur all night. So if you've been plagued by weird or disturbing dreams, try to get a little more sleep and avoid caffeine and alcohol close to bedtime. And that is something you should know. The very best way you could support this podcast, and it takes very little effort, is to share it. Send the link to someone you know, maybe a couple of people, and ask them to listen. It helps our audience grow and that's what we're trying to do. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know.

[Sarah Gabrielli]

Hi, I'm Sarah Gabrielli and I've traveled to every single lesbian bar in the country for my podcast, Cruising.

[Margie Worrell]

Dancing was a no, no, no women dancing. That would be something that, yes, the cops would grab you for.

[Mike Carruthers]

There were no black owned female gay bars. We needed a place of our in those days we went to the bars to socialize because there was no other way.

[Margie Worrell]

When you went to Brady's Bar, you knew you were safe.

[Sarah Gabrielli]

This is Cruising, a documentary podcast about queer spaces, history and culture. Each episode of Cruising features a different space and tells the stories of the humans that run it and the humans that call it home. You can listen to Cruising on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Season one and two are available now, so be sure to binge them before season three, which will go beyond the bars to queer bookstores, Farms, Peace, Encampments, and more, premiering February 4th.

[Amy Nicholson]

If you were caught up in the Barbenheimer frenzy, if you love ranking the Mission Impossible films, if you are just an all around movie fan, I have a podcast for you. Hello, I'm Amy Nicholson. I'm a film critic who writes for the New York Times and I'm also the co host of Unspooled, the ultimate movie podcast. Each week, my co host Paul Shear and I unspool famous films to see if they are truly all time classics. From the original 1984 Karate Kid to Children of Men to more recent pictures to Dune, yes to Citizen Kane, we cover it all. Listen to Unspooled wherever you get your podcasts.