Podcast Summary: Something You Should Know

Episode: Why You Click With Some People & How to Pursue Anything with Excellence
Host: Mike Carruthers
Guests: Kate Murphy (journalist, author), Brad Stulberg (performance coach, author)
Release Date: January 29, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode explores two major themes:

1. The science of "clicking" with other people—why we experience instant rapport with some individuals, and whether that feeling can be explained, predicted, or fostered.
2. The pursuit of true excellence—moving beyond "pseudo excellence" to understand what it means to do something with intention, vulnerability, and sustainable commitment in life or work.

Both segments offer practical insights and research-based explanations to help listeners improve their relationships and bring more satisfaction and meaning into personal or professional endeavors.

Segment 1: The Science of Clicking With People

Guest: Kate Murphy
Topic: Why we "click"—the emerging science of interpersonal synchrony

What Does It Mean to "Click" With Someone?

• Definition: Clicking is described as a feeling of resonance—instant ease, attraction, effortless conversation, and deep connection.
  • Kate Murphy (06:39):
    “It’s that feeling of resonance... the conversation is effortless and you just feel connected.”

Is Clicking Magical or Scientific?

• Clicking is not just chance or chemistry—recent neuroscience research shows it’s a "whole neurophysiological phenomenon":
  • People begin to mirror each other's facial expressions, postures, gestures, even their heart rate, breathing, hormonal activity, and brain waves.
  • Kate Murphy (07:09):
    “…not only do we start to mirror one another’s facial expressions, postures and gestures, it’s also uncannily, we start to sync up our respiration, our heart rate, our pupil dilation, and our hormonal activity.”

Does Clicking Have to Be Instant?

• Interpersonal synchrony (the scientific term) isn’t always instant—even though we make fast judgments (often within 30 seconds), synchrony can build over shared experiences, context changes, or repeated interaction.
  • Activities like walking, dancing, or even synchronized finger-tapping can foster rapport and kindness.
  • Kate Murphy (09:02):
    “We also move into and out of synchrony with people all the time… A lot of it can have to do with just where we are physiologically, but it also can have to do with the context and shared experiences…”

Why Do We Click With One Person and Not Another?

• It's a “multimodal sinking” of physical, emotional, and subconscious factors—a special “alchemy,” likened to two “walking symphony orchestras” aligning.
  • Kate Murphy (12:15):
    “We’re all kind of like these walking symphony orchestras… when we meet another person, they have their whole orchestra playing as well... there’s some where you can just join in harmony altogether.”

Is Clicking Always Mutual?

• Clicking must be mutual. If it’s one-sided, it’s just wishful thinking or “pre-click.”
  • Kate Murphy (14:28):
    “I don’t think there’s such a thing as a one way click… it has to be mutual…”

Can You Make Clicking More Likely?

• While true synchrony is largely an unpredictable interplay, you can improve your “receptivity”:
  • Engage in synchronous activities (walking, singing, dancing)
  • Be curious, open, and a good listener—“put up your antenna”
  • Kate Murphy (17:21):
    “You can make yourself more receptive to it… doing these synchronized activities… being really engaged… really allowing yourself to get on the other person’s wavelength.”

Charisma and “Clickability”

• Some people draw others in easily—often called charisma.
  • “Syncing” with a crowd vs. synchronizing deeply with individuals requires different skills.
  • Kate Murphy (19:42):
    “There are people that just… tend to have this magnetism… they tend to actually be able to get people to sync to them…”

Is There Always Magic?

• Even with the science, the experience retains a magical quality—an individual’s life history, internal rhythms, and context play a role.
  • Kate Murphy (21:50):
    “We are almost like tuning forks, roaming the planet, looking for resonance and finding it or not with other people…”

Barriers to Clicking

• Some conditions (autism, ADHD, depression, anxiety, narcissism) can make synchrony harder.
• True synchrony cannot be fully experienced virtually; physical presence and eye contact are crucial.
  • Kate Murphy (23:21):
    “You cannot experience synchrony virtually… If you’re not in another person’s physical presence, you really can’t experience synchrony to its fullest and richest extent.”

Decline of Synchrony in Modern Life

• Fewer shared cultural experiences and the prevalence of screens/phones have reduced opportunities to sync and click.
  • Kate Murphy (26:04):
    “We’re kind of in our own little curated bubbles… there are fewer commonalities, fewer starting points, fewer common neural patterns…”

Memorable Moment (27:14):
Mike Carruthers: “It is rare. It doesn’t happen a lot, but it happens often enough that you remember how magical it is.”

Important Timestamps from Segment 1

• [06:29]—Kate defines "clicking"
• [07:09]—Neurophysiological evidence of synchrony explained
• [09:02]—Synchrony and developing rapport
• [14:28]—Mutual nature of clicking
• [17:21]—How to become more receptive to clicking
• [23:21]—Barriers to synchrony & in-person necessity

Segment 2: Pursuing True Excellence

Guest: Brad Stulberg
Topic: The difference between pseudo-excellence and genuine, sustainable excellence; how to pursue excellence meaningfully

What Is "Excellence"?

• Distinction between pseudo-excellence (performative, endless routines with no real fulfillment) and genuine excellence (deep, personal engagement with something that matters to you).
  • Brad Stulberg (30:25):
    “Pseudo excellence is... where folks think they need to be perfect at everything... The question there is, what’s it all for? ...Genuine excellence is when the mountain you’re climbing is one that you chose because it aligns with your values...”

Can You Bring Excellence to Everything?

• Not all activities require or deserve your best efforts. Excellence is about how you approach a select craft seriously, not being world-class at every task in life.
  • Brad Stulberg (32:11):
    “Some of us are really fortunate to have a livelihood that aligns with our values… but that’s where you get to pursue excellence. You can do it as a musician… an athlete… It’s not a standard, right? …It’s the way you approach the craft.”

What Does It Mean to "Do Something With Excellence"?

• Vulnerability and Risk: You have to be willing to risk failure and make yourself vulnerable, not just claim you care.

  • Brad Stulberg (33:58):
    “You have to be OK with making yourself vulnerable and risking failure… It’s one thing to say you’re going to give something your all. It’s another thing to actually put yourself in the arena…”

• Intentionality and Focus: To be excellent, be present and intentional; design your environment to aid focus (e.g., leave your phone behind, have a prep routine).

  • Brad Stulberg (33:58):
    “Excellence is the opposite of going through the motions.”

• Consistency over Intensity: Excellence is less about one-off intense efforts and more about continually showing up, even when you don’t feel your best.

  • Brad Stulberg (35:55):
    “How do you try to stop a bad day from becoming a bad week?... How can we make our bad days just a little bit better?”

Do You Need to Enjoy It?

• You don’t have to love every moment, but you should gain satisfaction from the process, growth, and craft itself.
  • Brad Stulberg (38:22):
    “In order to be great at something, yes, you have to enjoy it… If you don’t enjoy what you do… you’re not going to last very long.”

Excellence Should Be Selective

• Don’t try to be excellent at everything; focus on “one or at most two things in your life.”
  • Brad Stulberg (40:11):
    “If you try to bring this to everything, you’re just going to burn yourself out…”

The Reward of Excellence

• The true reward is a deep connection to yourself, satisfaction, and fulfillment.
  • Brad Stulberg (41:39):
    “…one of the biggest challenges or problems of modern life is alienation… when you pursue excellence, you get really close to a craft… And I think that intrinsic reward is really the whole point of the entire endeavor.”

Fit vs. Grit

• It’s OK to quit things that don’t fit your temperament or bring you satisfaction—grit only matters when you’ve found the right fit.
  • Brad Stulberg (42:43):
    “If you don’t have fit, then it makes no sense to lean into grit. What you need to do is quit.”

Excellence Is About the Long Game

• Excellence is a body of work built over time—not constant day-to-day intensity.
  • Brad Stulberg (44:55):
    “When you zoom out and… look at the last decade of your work, I’d say it’s been a pretty intense effort… It’s definitely been a consistent effort. The body of work is heroic.”

Focus in Today's World

• True focus requires intentional removal of distractions, especially digital ones; willpower alone isn’t enough.
  • Brad Stulberg (46:07):
    “Focus… is just removing all the attention vampires… Willpower is never going to be enough.”

Biggest Barrier to Excellence

• The hardest part is overcoming initial resistance and vulnerability—especially when starting something new.
  • Brad Stulberg (47:36):
    “…facing that initial resistance and expecting that the first couple weeks… is going to feel pretty hard and challenging and at times uncomfortable…”

Important Timestamps from Segment 2

• [30:25]—Pseudo vs. genuine excellence
• [33:58]—Requirements of excellence (vulnerability, intentionality, consistency)
• [35:55]—Making bad days better ("raising the floor")
• [38:22]—Enjoyment and sustainability
• [40:11]—Selective excellence & avoiding burnout
• [44:55]—Long-term consistency trumps daily intensity
• [46:07]—Practical focus tips for avoiding distraction

Notable Quotes & Moments

On clicking:

• “You cannot experience synchrony virtually… If you’re not in another person’s physical presence, you really can’t experience synchrony to its fullest and richest extent.”
  —Kate Murphy ([23:21])

On excellence:

• “You have to be OK with making yourself vulnerable and risking failure. So it’s one thing to say you’re going to give something your all. It’s another thing to actually put yourself in the arena.”
  —Brad Stulberg ([33:58])

On mutuality in relationships:

• “I don’t think there’s such a thing as a one way click… it has to be mutual…”
  —Kate Murphy ([14:28])

On avoiding burnout and maximizing joy:

• “If you try to bring this [excellence] to everything, you’re just going to burn yourself out and you’re probably not going to enjoy or be very excellent at any of the things.”
  —Brad Stulberg ([40:11])

Final Practical Tips & Insights

• Remove visible distractions (like your phone) from conversations to build real presence and trust. ([03:00])
• If you want to click with someone, prioritize real-world, shared experiences and direct eye contact.
• To pursue excellence, focus on what truly excites you, be willing to fail, and show up consistently—not perfectly—to the things that matter.

Endnote:
This episode demystifies everyday relationship chemistry and the pursuit of personal mastery. Whether you want deeper friendships or more meaning from your work and hobbies, the path lies in vulnerability, selectivity, and the courage to show up—repeatedly.