Why You Put Things Off & The Myth of Criminal Profiling

Summary

Something You Should Know

Episode: Why You Put Things Off & The Myth of Criminal Profiling
Host: Mike Carruthers
Guests: Jon Acuff (author, "Procrastination: Never Get Stuck Again"), Rachel Corbett (author/journalist, "The Monsters We Murder")
Date: June 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of "Something You Should Know" tackles two intriguing and practical topics: why we procrastinate despite our best intentions, and whether criminal profiling is as effective as TV and movies suggest. Host Mike Carruthers explores the psychology of putting off important tasks with guest Jon Acuff, and then turns to journalist Rachel Corbett to separate fact from fiction on the reality of criminal profiling.

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Segment 1: Rethinking Medication Expiration Dates

Timestamps: 03:54 – 05:52

• Key Points:
  • Expiration dates on many medications are not as rigid as most people think.
  • The US military’s studies with the FDA show many drugs remain safe and effective years after their expiration.
  • Potency typically fades gradually, unlike food spoilage.
  • Exception medications: Insulin, EpiPens, nitroglycerin, and liquid antibiotics break down faster and should always be within date.
  • Takeaway: While expired headache meds may still work, critical medications should always be in-date.

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Segment 2: Why We Procrastinate & How to Beat It

Guest: Jon Acuff, author of "Procrastination: Never Get Stuck Again"
Timestamps: 05:52 – 26:46

Defining Procrastination

• Jon Acuff’s definition:
  “Procrastination is when your actions don't match your intentions, when who you want to be is not who you're currently being.” (06:00)

• Example:
  82% of Americans want to write a book, but only 1-2% actually do so. (06:11)

Common Reasons for Procrastination

• Fear of criticism or failure.
• Feeling overwhelmed by the scope of a project.
• Mislabeling helpful processes as procrastination ("I think best under pressure").
• Chasing "fake" goals—goals that sound good but aren’t genuinely desired.
• Not wanting the process, just the reward.
• “There’s a lot of middle...people get lost in the wasteland of a middle.” – Jon Acuff (09:09)

Auditioning Your Goals

• Try pursuing a goal for "15 minutes a day for seven days… If you won’t pay that fee, you’re not going to pay the rest of it. And you can enjoy removing that goal.” (08:09)
• There's value in letting go of goals you don't really care about.

Deadlines, Pressure, and the “Last-Minute Rush”

• Studies show finishing projects at the last second doesn’t yield your best work.
• Create multiple finish lines or checkpoints for large projects to harness the motivation of deadlines without the chaos.
• “Nobody’s best draft is their first draft. …We forget all the times it didn’t work.” – Jon Acuff (10:08)

Is Procrastination a Personality Trait?

• Almost everyone struggles with some form of procrastination (Over 99% in Jon’s research say they overthink; 96% say they haven’t met their full potential).
• “If you know you’re capable of more and you’re not doing anything with that, there’s procrastination present.” – Jon Acuff (12:03)
• Most people have two or three big things they procrastinate on.

Mindset, Labels, and Motivation

• Mindset underpins all procrastination.
• Many self-limiting labels (“I’m a procrastinator,” “I’m not athletic,” etc.) are set from childhood or life experience, but they can be changed.
• “You can respect your parents without repeating your parents.” – Jon Acuff (23:15)

Family, Inherited Patterns, and Personal Stories

• Jon discusses growing up with camping as a “necessity,” only realizing later this was due to financial limits. (“I didn’t know we were poor. I just thought we liked camping.” – 19:45)
• Illustrates how new goals (blogging in Jon’s case) can provide the motivation needed to make positive changes.

The Power and Simplicity of Mindset

• Improving your thoughts leads to better actions and results.
• “We’ve made it woo woo and fuzzy and like a sprig of sage in Malibu. … It’s very practical, it’s very actionable.” (21:47)
• Positivity’s ROI (return on investment) is higher than negativity, affecting all areas of life.

Notable Quotes

• “You’re the most persuasive person you’ve ever met. …Before every bad decision you ever made, first you talked yourself into it.” – Jon Acuff (13:39)
• “Figure out your labels—and then decide which ones you want, and go build those.” (21:47)
• “Don’t put off till tomorrow what you could do today. …Maybe it’s just a glitch in the human brain, but it sure is easy to put things off.” – Mike Carruthers (26:13)

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Segment 3: The Myth of Criminal Profiling

Guest: Rachel Corbett, journalist/author
Timestamps: 28:23 – 47:41

The Real History of Criminal Profiling

• Origins: Dates back to Victorian London and Scotland Yard’s hunt for Jack the Ripper, not just the last 50 years.
• Early profiling was speculative—no physical evidence, so detectives guessed about personality and background.
• The modern form took off in the US (FBI) in the 1960s-70s with “psychological fingerprints” or “behavioral DNA.”

Profiling in Practice

• Profiling looks for patterns in behavior: organized vs. chaotic crimes, gratification sought, etc.
• In practice, profiles are highly subjective. Different profilers often give different, sometimes contradictory predictions.
• “...It’s often a bit of a projection. It’s in the eye of the beholder who you think this perpetrator is going to be.” – Rachel Corbett (32:41)

The Science (and Non-Science) of Profiling

• Broad insights can sometimes be true (e.g., most bombers are young white men) but rarely narrow enough to catch any specific criminal.
• Reality check: Only about 2.5% of profiles lead to catching a suspect, even though 80% of detectives report finding profiling “useful.” (34:07 / 35:24)
• “There’s kind of a difference between belief and reality there.” – Rachel Corbett (35:24)

Why Profiling Became Popular

• The 1970s-80s “serial killer epidemic” in the US led the FBI to sensationalize both the threat and the purported solution—profilers dubbed mindhunters.
• This was also a political move to regain prestige and funding post-J. Edgar Hoover.
• Over time, the shortcomings of profiling were quietly downplayed.

Famous Profiling Success Stories—Or Not

• The “Mad Bomber” case in NYC is often cited as a profiling triumph, but many acclaimed details were exaggerated or only revealed in hindsight. (41:21)
• Useful evidence came from a tip about a disgruntled former employee, not the profiler’s predictions.

Profiling Today – Evolved, Not Vanished

• Law enforcement has reframed it as “behavioral analysis,” focusing more on geography, victimology, and linguistics.
• The FBI’s Behavioral Science Unit (BSU) became the Behavioral Analysis Unit (BAU) to “take the BS out.”
• John Douglas (Mindhunter): “They wanted to take the BS out of the unit, so it became the BAU instead of the BSU.” (42:17)

Real-World Harms

• Profiling and so-called “intelligence-led policing” programs in the US have led to harassment of at-risk youth, sometimes derailing lives with little evidence or benefit.
• Example: A Florida youth lost his chance at school due to targeted over-policing based on risk factors, not wrongdoing. (43:18)

Why the Myth Persists

• Profiling stories offer psychological reassurance by making crime seem predictable and solvable.
• “It gives us a sense of control over this totally uncontrollable thing. …That’s why we have this lingering, persistent fantasy of the profiler.” – Rachel Corbett (46:19)

Notable Quotes

• “What does it really do to say, ‘okay, we’re looking for a young white male’? I mean, it doesn’t narrow down a whole lot.” – Rachel Corbett (33:27)
• “For the FBI to kind of admit that it wasn’t working, it would have to admit that it was really ignoring a lot of the evidence… because in the 70s and 80s… the FBI was exaggerating the threat…” (37:34)
• “I think it makes us feel safer, more comforted to watch something on TV where the out of control …you have these guys with this special power who can…capture them… I think that’s why we have this lingering, persistent fantasy of the profiler.” (46:19)

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Segment 4: Quick Science – The Scent of Trust

Timestamps: 47:46 – 48:57

• Researchers found exposing people to lavender increases trust—people were more willing to entrust money to strangers.
• The calming effect of lavender may subtly make first impressions more positive—even if the scent isn’t consciously detected.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Medication Expiration: 03:54 – 05:52
• Procrastination Interview (Jon Acuff): 05:52 – 26:46
• Criminal Profiling Interview (Rachel Corbett): 28:23 – 47:41
• Scent & Trust: 47:46 – 48:57

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Tone and Feel

Mike Carruthers approaches both subjects with curiosity, humor, and practical interest. Guests are open, relatable, and tactful, offering real-life stories and actionable advice. The episode balances myth-busting with empathy and optimism—helpful for listeners looking to change their own habits (or beliefs about law enforcement).

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Memorable Moments

• Jon Acuff: “I didn’t know we were poor. I just thought we liked camping.” (19:45)
• Rachel Corbett: “They wanted to take the BS out of the unit, so it became the BAU instead of the BSU.” (42:17)
• Mike Carruthers: “Well, when you think about the movies and all the TV shows that really champion criminal profiling, to find out that it certainly isn’t what it’s often portrayed to be is really fascinating.” (47:13)

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Summary Takeaways

• Procrastination is universal, tied to mindset, fear, and sometimes false goals; it can be changed with small, honest steps and reframing your self-labels.
• Criminal profiling is more a narrative device than a reliable investigative tool but persists because it comforts the public and helps agencies retain funding.
• Simple science suggests the unexpected power of scent—like lavender—to enhance trust in social situations.

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Recommended for:
Anyone looking to better understand—and overcome—procrastination, or those intrigued by the gap between TV crime drama and real police work.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[C]

Today on something you should know. How important are the expiration dates on the medications you take? Then why we procrastinate our important goals and strategies to stop doing it.

[D]

Let's audition that goal. Let's try 15 minutes a day for seven days in a row. And if you won't pay that fee, you're not going to pay the rest of it. And you can enjoy removing that goal. There's freedom in not chasing goals you really don't care about.

[C]

Also, a scent you can wear that may make you more trustworthy. And a critical take on criminal profiling. Police use it. People believe in it, but does it really work?

[A]

While something like 80% of the detectives used profiling, felt it was very useful, only about 2.5% of those profiles actually led to the apprehension of a suspect. So there's kind of a difference between belief and reality there.

[C]

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[D]

Looking forward to it.

[C]

So first, define procrastination for me. What is it exactly?

[D]

Yeah, so my definition is procrastination is when your actions don't match your intentions, when who you want to be is not who you're currently being.

[C]

And an example of that would be what?

[D]

Well, an example of that would be, according to the New York Times, 82% of Americans want to write a book. It's one of our most popular goals in this country. And if you look at publishing records, based on how many books are published each year, about 1 to 2% do. So 82% say it. Only 1 to 2% do it. So that's an example of people that go, I've always wanted to do this thing, which is very doable. People do it every day, but they're not doing it.

[C]

And why do you think that is?

[D]

I think there's a lot of reasons. I mean, one is they're afraid of what will happen if they do. You know, I never had a one star review written about me when I was a copywriter for Home Depot. No stranger on Amazon ever said, Jon Acuff is terrible at sitting in his cubicle. He writes the worst rug headlines. But when I actually got a book across the finish line, then I opened myself up to actual criticism. So I think sometimes it's fear, sometimes it's, the task feels overwhelming. And people say, I don't know where to start, as if there's a perfect place to start. Sometimes they've been tricked into thinking their process is procrastination. They go, I turned in a paper late in college. It's how I think best. I like to wait until the last second. And so there's a number of different things, reasons people give, if you actually ask them, okay, why do you put off the things you wish you were putting on?

[C]

And as you went down that list, I bet people could hear themselves in several of those things that as it relates to tasks they say they want to do. But I also, I also think, and I'd like to get your thoughts on this, that another reason that people don't write the great American novel or whatever it is, is they don't really want to. They don't want to do it. They maybe want to have done it. They want to be a famous author, but they don't really want to do the work that gets them there. It's just something to say because it sounds good.

[D]

Yeah, I would 100% agree with that. There are certain goals that everybody thinks they're supposed to have. You know, I live in Nashville. No one here thinks they're supposed to record an album. You very rarely meet somebody who goes, yeah, I'm supposed to do a folk album. I've always known it. But book writing is one of those things that people think they're supposed to write a book. So, yeah, I mean, to me that's a fake goal. And what I always tell people is, let's just do a seven day audition. Let's audition that goal. Like let's try 15 minutes a day for seven days in a row. And if you won't pay that fee, you're not going to pay the rest of it. And you can enjoy removing that goal. Like there's freedom in not chasing goals you really don't care about.

[C]

Well, and also, it seems not just with writing a book, but with really doing anything big is you want to be at the finish line, but you don't want to really run the race. The reward sounds great, but the work between here and the reward is not a price you're willing to pay.

[D]

Yeah, there's a lot of middle. I think that's one of the realities of goals. If you ask the average person, take a 30 day goal and divide it into the beginning and middle and end. Most people say the beginning's day one through 10, middle's day 11 through through 20 and the finish is 21 through 30. And the reality is the beginning is day one, the middle is day two through 29 and the end is day 30. So there's a lot of middle and there's a lot of really easy, kind of fun ways to make it through the middle and to not procrastinate through that kind of middle part of a goal. But I think a lot of people do get kind of lost in the wasteland of a middle.

[C]

What about people who seem to procrastinate? Because as you had said earlier, they like the rush of working under pressure, they like to work against the deadline. That that gives them fuel. And I sort of understand that, but I don't know if it really makes sense.

[D]

Well, I mean, the first thing I'd say is they've studied that up and down and it's just not true. Scientists have studied that particular thing again and again and again and again and it's just not ultimately true. And what I mean by that, nobody's first draft is their best draft. You might wait until the last second, you might skid across the finish line, but nobody's best draft is their first draft. If you had the freedom of 24 hours of reflection or three days off from the project and then you came back. You're going to find mistakes, you're going to find improvements. And so I do believe and subscribe to the idea that a deadline can be motivating. I like the rush of a deadline. I've just learned to have both. Meaning I use it as a form of positive motivation. But. But I don't suffer the consequences of turning something in last second. I just figure out, okay, how can I create multiple finish lines in a project? You know, if I've got a big book due and it's a two year project, I can't just have one finish line. There's no way that I have the willpower, the discipline to kind of hold my breath for two years. So I just find ways to have that rush as many times as I need it to finish the project with small deadlines, small accountability, small chapters, I'm turning in. So I like a both and I just don't like the idea that, you know, I got a great grade once in college. And the problem is we forget all the times it didn't work. So the sexy save the day moment we remember, we don't remember all the other times where we got a C minus and the professor says, what is this? This paper feels like it was thrown together last second. Because it was, because it was.

[C]

Well, do you think procrastination is a mindset in this way? That procrastination is something that people do? Some people do a lot of. It's kind of who they are. They procrastinate everything. Or do we all have one or two things that seem to be sticking points?

[D]

I think we all have some degree of it. You know, we did a book once called Soundtracks about mindset and hired a PhD named Mike Peasley. We did a study, we asked 10,000 people if they struggle with overthinking and 99.5% of them said yes. So then we did another study where we asked 3,000 people, do you feel like you've tapped into your full potential? And 96% of them said no. And I would argue if you know you're capable of more and you're not doing anything with that, there's procrastination present. So I think there are probably some people on the extreme edge where everything they procrastinate on. But I think that the average person, if you sat down with them and said, have you accomplished every goal? Do you, do you always do the things you want to do? Do you have a remarkable life, which I would def is when your actions match your intentions. It's the opposite of procrastination. I think most people are honest enough to go, you know what, there's two or three things. I know I want to do them. I know I want to have a better relationship with my kids, or I know I want to lose a couple pounds, or I've always wanted to start a business or have my own podcast. But I just keep kicking that goal down the road and I looked up and all of a sudden I'm 55 and I go, whoa, where did. Where did the time go?

[C]

Where did the time go? Is it just a matter of priorities that you do the things that are important to you, or is procrastination also burying the things that you say are important, but as you talked about earlier, you don't want to face what the results might be?

[D]

What's interesting to me about procrastination is it's the type of mindset issue that will apply to both things you desperately want, like starting a business, and also things you don't want to do, like your taxes or the laundry or following up with a difficult client. It's kind of a. It's one of those mindset issues that applies to so many different things in life, which is why it's fun when you figure out, oh, for me to do the things I need or want to do. Here's the tricks. Like, I tell people all the time, you're the most persuasive person you've ever met. And what I mean by that is, before every bad decision you ever made, first you talked yourself into it. You are the greatest you salesperson who's ever lived. And so I like to just tell people, so let's figure out how to sell ourselves the things we actually want. Let's figure out some easy tools, some easy resources that allow us to talk ourselves into doing those things that maybe don't come naturally. Like, I don't. I get up at 4:55am to work out, and I never want to do that. There's no I'm not like Mark Wahlberg, like, getting up at psychopath 2am and doing burpees. Like, I don't want to do that. But I love the after. I love driving home. I love the endorphins. I love being in shape. I love the community. So I've just found ways to sell myself on that idea. And I've consistently done that long enough that now I'm in that sweet spot where to not do it feels weird. It feels weird when you start a new goal or break an old habit. It feels uncomfortable. It feels weird. But eventually you get to a spot where not doing it feels weird and that's really fun.

[C]

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[C]

My guest today is John Acuff. He's author of the book Procrastination. Never get stuck again. And John, going back you mentioned doing your taxes, which I think is a perfect example, at least for me, that I put it off and justify why I put it off. Well, I think I need another form supposed to come in from the thing and so I put it off and I put it off and when it's done it feels so good and I think why did I put it off? I should have done it a long time ago and I could have felt this Feeling of relief and gotten that weight off my shoulders two months ago, but I didn't. And guess what I'm gonna do again next year.

[D]

Yeah, you're gonna put it off.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Well, part of the problem there is that we forget that good feeling. You know, the brain has something called negativity bias, meaning we're really good at remembering the negative in life and trying to prevent it, but we tend to forget feelings like that. And what I found over the years, I've helped probably a million people with their goals. I've never met somebody who changed just because I've never met somebody who said, john, today I got up and I decided to have grit. I decided to have willpower, decided to have sacrifice. That's never what happens. The only thing that happens, the only reason people leave their comfort zone, is because something outside it is worth being uncomfortable for. So in my own life, in my mid-30s, I was a pretty average husband, pretty average dad, had, you know, a bunch of different jobs, terrible career. And two things happened. One, I was tired of being broke. I didn't know we were poor. I just thought we liked camping. I said to my wife, like, wow, we sure were outdoorsy when we were first married. And she was like, no, that's because we had no money. We could only afford to camp. And I bumped into blogging. I started to blog online and realized there's this whole amazing audience out there, and that gave me discipline, Meaning I didn't start getting up earlier because I was disciplined. I started getting up earlier because I desired to write more. And I had two kids under the age of four. I didn't stop watching so much TV because I was disciplined. I. I stopped watching so much TV because it wasn't giving me anything, and blogging was giving me everything. So I think a big part of it, whether it's your taxes or a book, is going, what's the thing I really desire? I want that great feeling. I don't want this thing hanging over me for an extra month longer than it needs to. And I remember last year's great feeling. I'm going to go ahead and give myself the joy of that a month early and then enjoy this month in a different way than I did last year.

[C]

That's one of the best lines I've ever heard anyone say is, I didn't know we were poor. I just thought we liked camping.

[D]

Oh, thank you.

[C]

I love that. It's beautiful.

[D]

It's very true. It's very true.

[C]

That's really funny. So what do you do to Fix this. If it just becomes part of who you are, like you're just the guy that puts everything off to the last minute, maybe that's okay, right? Maybe that's just who you are.

[D]

Well, I mean, I think part of it is just examining your labels and making sure you're good with them. You know, we assign ourselves labels, especially as adults. I met somebody the other day and she said, well, I'm not athletic, and that's a label. And then she said, my strongest muscle has always been my brain, and that's a label. And then she said, my sister was the athletic one, I was the smart one. And she decided, probably in the eighth grade when she got cut from the volleyball team, I'm not an athletic person. And added, I'm clumsy. And then doesn't think she gets to exercise for the next 60 years of her life. And so in a situation like that, I'd go, hey, I don't think that label's helping you. So if you say to me, well, I'm a procrastinator, that's just who I am, I would probably ask you some questions to say, you know, are you getting the things you want out of life? And, you know, are they impacting your family? Like, it's not just one, you know, if you're a parent, it impacts your kids. There's a kid in our neighborhood, I always think about this little buddy. He would ride or walk to neighborhood swim practice because his mom was such a procrastinator. She was always late and he was an on time kind of kid. And it really embarrassed him and it really drove him crazy. So about mid summer, he just started finding his own way. Just started going, you know what? I know I'm seven and I probably shouldn't essentially hitchhike, but I'm gonna find my way to swim practice. So in that situation, I would say to that mom, like, hey, I know you're kind of used to being late, but that's a changeable thing. And it is actually impacting your son in a way that you would actually be sad about if you knew.

[C]

That's a pretty gutsy kid.

[D]

Yeah, I just encourage people to challenge their labels and then decide which ones they want and then go build those. Like the best part of mindset, to me, there's two things. One, it impacts everything. If I give your listeners great tips on email management, that helps them when they're in their email, but not with their marriage, not with their fitness, not with their finances. But if I help you figure out your mindset, it touches every part of your life. Even while you're asleep, you're dreaming, you're thinking. So I love mindset for that. But then the second reason I love it is it's simple. Great thoughts turn into great actions, great actions turn into great results. So you figure out, here's the results I want, and then you go, okay, what are the thoughts that are going to drive those actions that will drive those results? We've made it woo woo and fuzzy and light. A sprig of sage and Malibu. Like, it's not. It's very practical, it's very actionable. And procrastination is just a mindset issue and therefore it's fixable.

[C]

I love this idea of figuring out your labels because how self limiting is that? When you say I'm a procrastinator or, you know, I do things this way or I do it because my dad did it, because my dad was a bit of a procrastinator. I remember he would always be up doing his taxes on, you know, the night of April 14th until 4 in the morning, trying to get them done. And I just figured, well, that's just who he is and maybe that's how I'll be. And I kind of, I'm nowhere near that. But you just kind of take on these roles and assume these labels without question.

[D]

Yeah. And in a situation like that, I always tell people, you can respect your parents without repeating your parents. You can respect them without repeating them. And so you as an adult get to kind of go, yeah, that worked for me. For them, I don't think it works for me. And here's what I'm going to tweak or here's what I'm going to change. And, and sometimes it's, it's big things. I was on another podcast with a guy named Steven Scoggins, and he said his dad used to say, scoggins don't get ahead. Scoggins get by. Like, imagine saying that over a kid again and again and again. And then when he hit his early 20s and started to become successful, he had to say, oh, wow, I don't accept that. We as a people, our people group doesn't get ahead. We get by. I'm going to rewrite some new soundtracks and, and change the way my family functioned. And so I think, yeah, sometimes we can inherit some kind frameworks when it comes to, again, perfectionism, procrastination, inner critic, imposter syndrome, all the kind of mindset issues we deal with, but you don't have to keep them the same. You get to write your own.

[C]

Yeah, well, yeah. And I remember my father used to say all the time, he used to say, why is life so difficult? Why does it have to be so difficult? And I thought later on when I got older, I thought, well, I don't see it that way. I mean, I. But I might not have done that. I might have just assumed his mantra of life is difficult, but it's as difficult as you make it.

[D]

Yeah, I had a friend challenge me on that because I have, ironically enough, I'm a pretty negative, pessimistic person by nature. No, it might be because it's true. I grew up in Massachusetts. Maybe it's because we're a wicked cold people. But I just learned years ago, Mike, that the ROI of positivity is better than the ROI of negativity. When I'm positive, I'm a better dad, I'm a better husband, I have better client relationships, I make more money, I feel better physically. So I just learned over the years to practice positivity. And that's really changed my life. Even though I grew up at a time where Seinfeld was doing, you know, serenity now and Saturday Night Live was doing I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me, I just started to realize that, okay, you know, like hearing a negative thing from a dad, okay, I recognize that for what it is. I'm going to choose a different path and I'm going to practice that. So I've just learned over the years, how do I practice positivity in small ways and big ways. And that's why, you know, Procrastination proof is my 11th book. I never would have written this book at book two because I didn't know it was true. It would have been a cocky, arrogant 36 year old me who said I figured out how to become Procrastination Proof. But by book 11, I feel good saying, hey, I figured some few things out about getting the things you care about done. Like, I'm a very distracted person, it's hard for me to focus. But I've learned some tricks. I think it'll help you too. And that's what's been fun for me with this project in particular.

[C]

Well, you know that old saying, don't put off till tomorrow what you could do today. And I think there's a lot of wisdom in that. And yet, I don't know, maybe it's just a glitch in the human brain, but it sure is easy to put things off when you don't want to do them. And I appreciate your insight into the topic and how people can get out of that trap. I've been talking to John Acuff. He's author of the book Procrastination. Never Get Stuck Again. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Great John, thanks. Thanks for doing this.

[D]

Well, I appreciate the chance to talk to you again. It's always fun.

[C]

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If you watch enough crime shows on tv, you know about criminal profiling. It's this very clever way law enforcement uses clues to draw up a profile. An idea, perhaps a very specific idea as to what kind of person committed this crime. Maybe it was a man in his 40s, a loner with a certain aptitude for something. So it must be Bob. It's almost as if it's an exact science. And by the end of the TV hour, Bob is in handcuffs on his way to prison. Well, it works well on tv, but in real life, criminal profiling is far murkier, far less precise, and a lot more controversial than most people realize. So what is criminal profiling really? Does it actually help solve crimes? And why are we so fascinated by the idea that someone can get inside the mind of a killer? Here to separate myth from reality is Rachel Corbett. She is a writer and journalist whose work has appeared in the New Yorker, the New York Times Magazine, and the Atlantic. She is also author of a book called the Monsters We Murder Obsession and the Rise of Criminal Profiling. Hi, Rachel. Welcome to Something youg Should Know.

[A]

Thank you for having me.

[C]

So my sense is that criminal profiling is something fairly recent, like in the last 50 years or so. Do you know when it started exactly?

[A]

It dates back, really. I date it back to about the Victorian era in London when I was Scotland Yard was looking for Jack the Ripper. And there were no. There was no physical evidence. There was almost no. No one to be an eyewitness. They had little to go on. So they got creative. And this police surgeon by the name of Thomas Bond started thinking a little bit outside the box. And he started thinking about, well, what other clues could we deduce that are not necessarily physical clues? And he really started to get creative and think about what kind of person would do such a crime, how would he dress, who would his friends be, where would he work, what kind of family did he come from, what, you know, population or ethnic group or would he come from? And, you know, they came up with lots of theories. They even enlisted Arthur Conan Doyle, the creator of Sherlock Holmes, came in and had his own theories. He predicted that Jack the Ripper would be a very educated man, maybe a doctor. And, you know, it didn't work, of course, the. They never caught Jack the Ripper as well, as far as we know. But they did kind of create a new way of thinking about. About a suspect, a way of thinking psychologically. So if you fast forward to the 1960s and 1970s, a similar thing happened in the US in the FBI. And so they began to look also for psychological clues. Sometimes they call them psychological fingerprints or behavioral DNA at the crime scene. So they'll look for, you know, what kind of gratification might the perpetrator have gotten out of this crime? You know, was it chaotic or was it really organized and premeditated? And by looking at these types of clues, they could make certain predictions about who it might be. The Problem, of course, is that it doesn't tend to work like it's intended to. It might create some interesting theories, but in practice it doesn't tend to capture as many perpetrators as you might think.

[C]

Oh, I was hoping it was really, it was a science that gets the bad guy every time. But you have to wonder, just kind of like from a common sense point of view, when I watch, just when I watch it on tv, I think, well, just because the guy did it that way doesn't mean he went to college and, you know, likes sugar in his tea. I mean, like you could have five different criminal profilers look at something and get five different theories, which makes none of them very important.

[A]

And that's what usually happens when you do have multiple profilers looking at a subject. I mean, Jack the Ripper, for example. While Arthur Conan Doyle thought he was a highly educated doctor, many others on the force thought he was a very low class Jewish man living in the East End. So, you know, it just. What I think we find is that it's often a bit of a projection. It's in the eye of the beholder who you think this, this perpetrator is going to be.

[C]

You know, it reminds me of like dream analysis. Like if you ask 10 people, dream analyzers, what my dream means, you'll get 10 different answers. Well then, then none of them mean anything because there's no science to it. It's all opinion and it's all opinion.

[A]

Exactly, exactly. And I mean, you know, you can look at, so there is certain data, you know, bombing suspects, they're almost always men. They're typically white men, they're typically younger. I mean, there are all these statistics, statistics that turn out to be true. You can make certain broad guesses. But you know, the, the profile that you see on TV is, is like you said, you know, you know exactly where he gets this coffee every morning. And you know what? He's every, every little detail. And that's really, that's really more of a fantasy. And then when you think about it, what does it really do to, to say, okay, we're looking for a young white male. I mean, it doesn't narrow down a whole lot.

[C]

And so since it's been more or less debunked, why is it still a thing? Why is it still, why is it still around?

[A]

I think it's around less than one might think from tv. What's happened is it's really evolved into very specific forms of profiling today, like geographical profiling. We know certain patterns of gun violence. You know, if there's a gunshot here, we think there's going to be another one over here. Kind of patterns of retaliation or, you know, murderers tend to kill within their own zip code, for example, and maybe they'll slowly spread outward from that. So there's certain ways to also kind of narrow things down based on features like that or victimology, as they say, which is, you know, if certain kinds of people go after certain kinds of victims, usually it's someone of your own race, for example. So maybe there's still ways to. But I think I, I think they're much less ambitious in terms of what they can actually do with this science, if you want to call it art or science. There was a study done in England that found that While something like 80% of the detectives used profiling, felt it was, was, was very useful, only about 2.5% of those profiles actually led to the apprehension of a suspect. So there's kind of a difference between belief and reality there.

[C]

Could it be that doing that kind of work of going through the process of trying to profile somebody, it just makes you think in a way that you might not otherwise think that then might lead to like. It makes you more analytical. Is there anything there or not?

[A]

Yeah, well, I think, you know, I think it's useful in a general sense for some law enforcement to be versed in some level of psychology, sociology, because I do think it. I think, I do think it helps to imagine how this crime might have happened. The kind of person, maybe it, maybe it just informs something in the back of your mind and guides certain questions down the road. It's just when it becomes too much of a part of your mind, you start thinking it's gotta be this person, it's gotta be a white male, you know, and then, and then that limits you from actually looking at other suspects. So it can kind of go both ways.

[C]

Is it true what you said before about most murderers kill in their own zip code?

[A]

Yeah, it's like, especially they. They start close to home and then they kind of, they will start to spread out. But I think it's just, it has to do with comfort, just the kind of, kind of, you know, they may not do it right, they're not going to do it right next to their house, but they may do it down by the river where they. Near where they live or that kind of thing in places they know because they know, you know, kind of for practical reasons in a way. They know the landscape. They know, you know, where to go, where's dark and Hidden or that kind of thing.

[C]

Well, you would think that over time, if you start to profile cases, especially in the rear view mirror after it's been solved, you would think you would begin to build some data that would help profiling in the future because now we know what really happened. But that you're not. That doesn't seem to be the case.

[A]

Well, I think there was a lot banked on profiling. You know, for the FBI to kind of admit that it wasn't working, it would have to admit that it was really ignoring a lot of the evidence for a long time about profiling. Because in the, in the 70s and then into the 80s when there was this so called epidemic of serial killers, this was the Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy era. The FBI was, was kind of exaggerating the threat. They would, were saying that something like 4,000 to 5,000 people are killed every year by serial murderers. And actually it was more like 400 to 500. And they didn't correct these errors. And they would hold these very splashy press conferences where they'd bring out their profilers and say, you know, we've got this huge problem on our hands and we've got the solution for it. And the reason behind the scenes was that the FBI was really left in disgrace after J. Edgar Hoover left and their funding had been gutted and they needed to kind of rebrand themselves and they needed to get more money. So by creating this really sensationalized problem and a really kind of sexy solution with these mindhunters, they were able to get the public on board and public, you know, pressured congress to fund them. And so it really, it really worked in a certain way and they had a reason for making it seem more effective than it was. And then I think, you know, slowly over the years it kind of just petered out a little bit quietly. They kind of kept everything quiet.

[C]

Have there been any cases where the killer was or the criminal was profiled and they nailed it?

[A]

There's a very famous case about this that often gets told and some of your listeners might even know it. It's about the so called mad bomber, this bomber who was terrorizing New York city in the 1930s. And. Or was it 40s, I can't remember. I think it was the 40s, actually. But he was leaving pipe bombs in movie theaters and around the city. And the police were completely befuddled, completely stumped. They had no evidence. So they brought in the psychiatrist whose name was James Brussel, and he made these extraordinarily specific Predictions. He said he's going to be Eastern European, he's going to live with a sibling, he's going to live in the suburbs or outside the city somewhere and then he's going to be wearing a blue double breasted suit buttoned to the top when you find him. So the police go out, they get a tip that there's a guy and actually an angry former Con Ed employee who they go to his house, they knock on the door, his sister is there, he lives with his sister, he's of Eastern European descent and he's wearing a bathrobe. So that part wasn't right. But then when they told him they're taking him into the station, he went to go change and he came out in this blue double breasted suit buttoned to the top. It's like this extraordinary, almost magical, you know, conclusion and that, that gets told widely over and over and over again. But it turns out that this is what James Brussel, the psychiatrist wrote in his. But he left out all the predictions he got wrong and he massively exaggerated the ones he got right. So it really didn't turn out to be, to be that useful. It was actually just a Con Ed employee who turned the guy in. But that all got covered up in the mythos. So I feel like, I mean, I hate, I wish I had a better answer to this question, but I keep finding time and again that it just hasn't proven that useful.

[C]

So has law enforcement pretty much thrown in the towel on this or are there still champions of criminal profiling?

[A]

I think that they would say it's evolved. I mean they now call it like behavioral analysis. And they were kind of like I was saying, they may use it more for geographical profiling, victimology or things like linguistic profiling. Looking at the way say if someone writes ransom letters or writes letters into newspapers, they may analyze that and try to figure out similar questions like where, where might they be from? You know, what gender is this person, you know, those kinds of things, but through different, different means means that have a little bit more data behind them.

[C]

And so behavioral analysis, which, you know, that seems to be. Yeah, you, what you said is that that's more the term now that you see on TV and whatever. Is that any better?

[A]

Well, it's more honest perhaps. You know, they fam. The FBI famously changed the behavioral science unit to the behavioral analysis unit. And John Douglas, who's the very famous profiler, who's the show Mindhunter is based on, you know, his book said that they. The reason was because they wanted to take the BS out of. Out of the unit, so it became the BAU instead of the bsu. So I think it's just. It's pretending less that it's a science, accepting more that it's an art, and also accepting that maybe there are more limited, specific focuses where it can be applied. And this also goes to advances in AI and predictive policing and all these other tools that have come up since the sort of heyday of criminal profiling.

[C]

Have there been cases where behavioral analysis or criminal profiling or any of the things that you're talking about have really gotten the wrong person and made their life a living hell?

[A]

I spent time with a family in Florida where there was a sheriff's department that was implementing a new kind of. They called it intelligence led policing and similar motives. They said, you know, we've looked at the data. We find that children who are. Who come from homes where there is physical abuse or there's an incarcerated parent, or there's drug use, you know, all these different things in the house are more likely to become criminals than those who don't have any of those risk factors. But the problem is, instead of just understanding that and maybe reaching out for, you know, reaching out to those kids with resources, support therapists, I don't know, they targeted them for enhanced policing. So a lot of these kids, and they were children, many of them teenagers, who this sheriff's office was going and following them, knocking at their doors day and night. Where are you? Where have you been? Sometimes they might catch a kid. In the case of the family I looked at, he had weed on him one time. And so he gets. I think he had like a trace amount or something in a bag, so it got thrown out. But he got put into, like, a juvenile detention center for so long that he had to drop out of school. And this kept happening over and over again. And he was never ultimately charged or convicted of a crime as part of this policing operation. But he spent so, so long in detention that he, like I said, he had to. He had to quit school because he had too much, you know, missed too many classes. Then he starts kind of becoming friends with the kids in the detention center. And, you know, and it really reshapes the course of his life. Would he have ever been a criminal had this not happened? If he had been able to, say, finish school, maybe go to college? You know, we can't say, but it. There were so many people targeted like this. Two of the subjects committed suicide. Again, you can't draw any conclusions clearly, but it wasn't having good effects on people, and ultimately they had to ban that program as well.

[C]

Well, it's really interesting that it has. This whole thing has kind of become legend in some ways, and yet, as you point out, most of it has been debunked and proven not to really be. And on some level, it makes sense. When you think about the randomness of crimes and the reason people do horrible things, it seems like it would be hard to put it in any kind of predictive pattern that you could then follow anywhere, because things happen very, you know, abruptly and impulsively. And it's. I mean, maybe serial killers are different, but it just seems the whole thing is crime is not always so easy to predict.

[A]

Yeah, I think those two things you just said there actually go hand in hand. I think that the reason it's so hard to predict is the reason why we have all these shows about prediction working so well. I think it makes us feel safer, more comforted to watch something on TV where this out of control, the most terrifying thing you can imagine, say, you know, being the victim of a serial killer or something. You have these guys with this special power who can find, you know, they can get to the heart of these. These criminals, they can capture them, you know, what no one else can do. And I think it makes us feel it contains, in a way that. That terrible fear. I don't think, you know, it gives us a sense of control over this totally uncontrollable thing. So I think that's. I think that's why we have this lingering, persistent fantasy of the profiler.

[C]

Well, when you think about the movies and all the TV shows that really champion criminal profiling, to find out that it certainly isn't what it's often portrayed to be is really fascinating. Rachel Corbett has been my guest. She's a writer and journalist, author of the book the Monsters We Murder Obsession and the Rise of Criminal Profiling. And there's a link to that book in the show notes. Rachel, thank you for being here.

[A]

Thank you so much. It's been nice talking to you.

[C]

If you're trying to create a good first impression, what you see smell like may matter more than you think. Researchers have found that the scent of lavender appears to make people more trusting. In one experiment, participants exposed to lavender were significantly more willing to trust strangers with money than people exposed to peppermint or no scent at all. Scientists think lavender's calming effect may put the brain into a more open, cooperative frame of mind. Even more intriguing, newer research suggests that one of lavender's natural compounds can increase trustworthiness ratings even when people don't actually consciously smell the lavender. So while a lavender scent won't magically make everyone trust you, it could give your first impression a subtle boost. And that is something you should know. If you have a moment today, please tell someone about this podcast, make them aware of it, tell them how to listen to it, and help us grow our audience. It really is appreciated. I'm Micah Ruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know.

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